Sitting with the reality of her husband’s impending death, author Rebecca Woolf did something she later understood to be a liberating act: she was radically honest with the world about her complex grief, her desires for an authentic life, and even her past infidelity. Being radically honest propelled her beyond fear of judgment and lifted the weight of any shame. Rebecca tells Claire why she thinks people hide their truth and why people need to wrestle with difficult introspection, even during hard moments.
Resources from the show
- Read All Of This: A Memoir of Death and Desire, Rebecca’s latest book
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Rebecca Woolf, Claire Bidwell-Smith
Rebecca Woolf 00:00
About two weeks before he was diagnosed with terminal cancer, I finally was like, if I don’t leave this marriage, I’m going to drive off a cliff. Like, it got to the point where it was like I’ve been saying it for years. I’m done. I’m done. I’m done. I’m done. We’ll do you love me. Yes, fine. Let’s make it work. And this time, I was like, I don’t love you. I’m done, like I’m done, done.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 00:31
Hi, I’m Claire Bidwell Smith. Welcome to NEW DAY. That’s the situation Rebecca Woolf found herself in four years ago, in an unhappy unfaithful marriage, ready to call it quits. And bam, a terminal cancer diagnosis. No SPOILER ALERT needed here. I’m not sending you off to this interview on a cliffhanger. Rebecca’s husband died. And she felt relieved. She also felt sad and scared, especially for their four children. But Rebecca was very much not your prototypical widow. In fact, she says if she could have slept with someone the very same night her husband died, she would have. And what I love about Rebecca is that she’s saying all of this out loud. And not just to me on this podcast, she wrote about all of it in her new book, aptly named all of this A Memoir of death and desire. She writes about the kind of stuff you only tell your closest friends or your therapist, and some people will be too afraid to divulge these thoughts to anyone at all. But Rebecca is putting it all out there. Because she doesn’t want anyone to feel shame about who they are, or how they feel. her loved ones are nervous. She’s being so public about all of this. But you can hear it in Rebecca’s voice when she talks with me that she’s fully at peace with her thoughts, her emotions, her actions. She’s not afraid of being judged. And to her. That’s true freedom.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 01:56
Hi, Rebecca, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Rebecca Woolf 01:58
My gosh, thank you for having me.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 02:00
Hi. I love that we got to see each other last week. So it feels fresh.
Rebecca Woolf 02:06
I know it does.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 02:08
It’s good to see you again. You too. So I start every episode of this podcast by asking my guests how are you doing today? But how are you really doing?
Rebecca Woolf 02:18
It has been one of those days, like I call it a broken glass day where like every like, I’ve literally I broke a glass today. And I just shattered like one of those little tiny like, like Christmas lady things that like a hang around my window. My dog sat in her own shit like it’s been. I’m like, on the verge of tears. So it’s perfect for a grief podcast. You because I’m already like, already, like, at the very end of my rope. It’s like I’m in a very vulnerable spot.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 02:51
Well, we’ll make a safe space here today. So I want it. There’s a lot of stuff I want to talk to you about. But I wanted to start with just kind of, you know, I first heard your name and came across you. We talked about this recently. But I first heard your name. Gosh, was it like 12 years ago, it was a long time ago. And you were a quote unquote mommy, blogger, Girls Gone Child and you had a book coming out about the birth of your son. And I had not written my first book yet. And I was so excited about your book and kind of interested to see your process and what was going on. And over the years. Your life has just deepened and changed and you’ve gone through so much. And just thinking about this early perception. I had a view of this, like LA mommy blogger, and how you’ve kind of exploded out into so much more than that. And for anyone who’s not familiar with you, I was just wondering if you could kind of start by telling us about who you are and about that story.
Rebecca Woolf 03:51
Yeah, I started blogging and the early aughts. 2001, which is crazy to think about. […] I’m having this conversation with them. And like all the OG bloggers like we had to do it all ourselves like, Yeah, I had to figure out we had to like forge forward slash like bracket like we had to do it. Yeah, so I started writing before I had my son I had a blog about traveling. I was like, you know, traveling at the time that those in my early, late teens, early 20s In order to had a blog about it. And then when I got pregnant with my son at 23, it was not planned. I barely knew his dad we’ve been dating for a few months. When I found out I was pregnant and we kind of just went for it, elope, went to Vegas, was like let’s just do this. I was 23 years old. And when I was pregnant with him, I sort of realized that I didn’t actually know anyone who was pregnant be you know when Anyone who was a mom, besides my mom, I had no peers. So for me, I started did what I always do when I feel alone is like, I’m gonna write about it. So I started blogging girls, my child started right after he was born. But I was blogging on my other blog about my experience. So I was blogging about, you know, my feelings pre Girls Gone Child, and then started, you know, started blogging specifically about what it felt like to be a new mom, a young mom, a mom in LA, a mom, who was still kind of a kid herself. And then I, you know, in those days, it was just you, you wrote and people either came to read you or they didn’t. So I, you know, I think I was really fortunate to be sort of at the right place at the right time. Because I amassed a following that was a pretty healthy following. At the time, you know, there was no monitor. We weren’t monetizing our blogs yet. So it sort of grew into more of a community. Like, it was just it was one of those things were like, Oh, I’m part of this community. This is so great. And you know, from there..
Claire Bidwell-Smith 06:15
For a little while until those trolls got really crazy.
Rebecca Woolf 06:18
It was super, it was like, it was like zines for you know, that’s what it felt like I felt super DIY people were writing about all the kinds of stuff you wouldn’t you wouldn’t read in a parenting magazine, I think that was sort of that was what made blogging, so cool. It was like, moms were talking about their experiences in an unfiltered way raw, real. And the space at the time, it was writers like wasn’t influencers. It wasn’t it was like everyone there knew how to write. And so you had like these really incredible storytellers talking about what their experiences were like, and we’re just really honored to be a part of that. Like it was really special. And I don’t think we realize how special it was. Because it was such a, you know, finite moment, like we you know, it only lasted a few years, kind of like this sweet spot for the you know, in internet world before sort of it blew up and became you know what it is now?
Claire Bidwell-Smith 07:20
You went on to have three more children a set of twins.
Rebecca Woolf 07:25
Yeah, my son was born in 2005. And then my dad, my daughter, and oh, eight, she’s 13 gonna be 14. And then my twins are born in 2011, they’re going to be 11.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 07:36
Well, I’ve always thought of you as really progressive, really honest, you know, just like a real truth teller. Yet at the same time, I think that, you know, watching you along all those years, there was the kind of this perception that you have this really beautiful, happy family, like these gorgeous kids and these pictures of LA and your husband and you guys dressing up and, and then that kind of all changed. And your new book really kind of digs into more layers of what was going on? And then kind of how one of those chapters ended. Can you tell us about that?
Rebecca Woolf 08:10
I mean, I never wrote about having a happy marriage ever. Like I it was always very much. This is really hard, but I’m making it work. But we’re making it work. Look at us make it work. And so I don’t, I don’t ever feel like I lied. I don’t feel like I mean, I definitely you know, I posted the good pictures and I the moments where I felt I was like, Oh, I definitely like, framed him in a in a light that was very different than what was actually happening. But in terms of having a difficult marriage. I feel like I wrote about it at least, at least I felt like I wrote about it in a way that felt honest.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 08:52
Yeah, I never felt like you’ve lied now that I’ve no more of the story. But it did like I don’t know, I think all the photos and the you concentrated on the beautiful parts, you know,
Rebecca Woolf 09:03
totally. And by the way, that’s how I roll anyway, like, I’m very much like, let’s look for the light and I got a little bit of a like a Pollyanna thing going. And I don’t think it’s toxic positivity. I think it’s more of like, I am a true optimist. And I do see I tried to find the story and everything. So in my story, I wanted so badly for the story to be a certain way. In fact, I got a tattoo right after my first book came out which by the way, my marriage was in trouble from day one. But for the moment we got married it was it was clearly not a safe space really for either of us. And I got this tattoo right after my first book because the end of my first book is about I write about having a difficult marriage even in my first book and then in the end it’s like he proposes and like will you stay married to me and then we buy a ring and it’s a whole thing. I wanted that to be the ending because I wanted so badly for that to be like here Er, here’s our happily ever after, like I literally wrote an ending to that story that had happened, this that had happened, but I crit I made it into more of a. Okay, this is what’s this is where we are and where we’re heading like I gave it I turned it up, right? That’s really more of what I’ve always done is like, how do I like this in a way that’s most you know, I want to light this in a way where it looks, not only looks good, but this is that this is the story that I want. This is what I want, fake it till you make it. So tell us. So I wrote this tattoo on my arm that said, tell the story until it comes true. And that was sort of my MO. It’s like, okay, so this isn’t good. We’re going to make it good. I’m going to tell a story where it’s a minute, I’m going to, I’m going to phrase it in a way that makes it look better than it is I’m going to believe it. And I think that’s not specific to my experience. I think so many women, so many wives do that. It’s like, this is very mediocre. But how do I make it? How do I light it right?
Claire Bidwell-Smith 11:01
Social media has enabled that so much more too.
Rebecca Woolf 11:04
Totally, but it’s nothing new. This has been happening forever. I mean, this like idea that we’re constantly posturing and constantly trying to create, you know, we want to be happy, and we want and if we don’t feel happy, we want people to think we’re happy, because then maybe we will too. And we can buy into our own bullshit. Like that’s such a huge part of what it is to be an adult is, is trying to sell people on our bullshit and then getting to a point where like, What the fuck are we doing? You know, and I think when you’re a storyteller, you are good at telling stories. And I don’t think I think sometimes you don’t even realize you didn’t even realize you’re telling them until you wake up and you’re in fiction. Like, wait a minute, this isn’t real. And I think for me, I think what made it so apparent that I had been telling a story was when my I my husband, so my husband is for those who don’t know, died, he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. And by the way, I was barely writing at this time. When he got diagnosed, I was no longer blogging, and I was no longer really talking about him at all. In fact, I realized nothing was really happening. We were roommates sort of barely speaking. Had you guys talked about getting divorced? Yes. So about two weeks before he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I finally was like, if I don’t leave this marriage, like I’m going to drive off a cliff. Like, it got to the point where it was like I had been saying it for years. I don’t want it, I’m done. I’m done. I’m done. I’m done. Well, do you love me? Yes, fine. Let’s just let’s make it work. And this time, I was like, I don’t love you. I’m done. So we weren’t we were barely speaking up. Like for the weeks up until his diagnosis. In fact, I was so like, couldn’t even be in the same room with him. It was so bad that when he was like, my stomach is really hurting. I need to go to the ER; I wouldn’t even take him. I was so done. So I was like, well, you can take an Uber, I’ll stay here with the kids. And that’s what he did. So we, you know, we were done, done, far before he got sick and I had grieved the marriage for you know, years before he was diagnosed. So the feeling that I had when he called me from the hospital to tell me hey, I’m dying actually. And that was pretty much the way he said it was this you know, like, and what else do you say? Like what do you it was like the most shocking you know, when you’re like I have a stomach ache and then you go to the doctor and they’re like, Oh, you’re you know you’re you’ve terminal pancreatic cancer stage four. It’s everywhere all over your body. I mean, what do you what is your response? It’s it was almost like, well, I’m dying. Like that was kind of how he called how he you know, what he said and the collision of feelings that I felt in the moment which were, like fear, obviously, sadness, obviously, but also like, guilt, relief. It’s impossible to describe the collision of feelings.
Rebecca Woolf 14:47
But as I was having these feelings, I was in my like, body going, Oh, I’m only allowed to feel this right now. And this Yeah, right. Yeah, I’m only allowed to feel sad enough. braid. Okay, okay, this is like the other stuff that like that. That was also there. I was like, Oh, I can’t even this is not, that must have been so complicated. So complicated. So in the same way, I think like the entire I mean, I was also in survival mode because I was sure. I mean, there was some there was so much going on. So I’m like, How do I navigate this as, obviously, how do I navigate this as a wife? And how do I navigate this as a mom, were the only things that mattered and my feelings didn’t which, you know, it really took me over a year before I really let myself process I think how I was feeling because I was just making sure that everyone else was okay. Yeah. Which I also think is like a very common maternal response to something like this. I think my experience is super common for any woman who is in my situation. They’re not like, how do I feel? What am I feeling? They’re thinking, I gotta make sure that everyone’s okay, before I even go there. Like, there’s nowhere for me, there’s no time. And there’s no place for me to think about how I’m feeling right now. But I was having feelings, and there were a lot of them. And there were a lot of them that I was like, Oh, I can nap like, this is like I felt, you know, ashamed to feel those feelings to feel relief. Are you kidding? Someone just your husband calls and says he’s dying. And you’re like, Oh, my God, like this is, you know, like, you’re supposed to feel a certain way. Yeah. And I was supposed to feel a certain way through his entire dying and through his death, and then the months after, and even now, like, if we really quiet the outside noise, you know, we quiet what we’re told to believe what we’re told to feel what we’re told to think what we’re programmed to behave like. We turn it all down, like all those knobs all the volume of like, what we’ve been taught by our parents, by society, by religion by when we turn it all down, and like really start to listen to ourselves for like, oh, wait a minute. This is not how I feel at all. This is not what I believe. This is not what I subscribe to. This is not what I prescribed to; this is not what I want. And yet, all these knobs had been all around me all up this whole time. And I haven’t even allowed myself to feel or think or question or really get to the root of how I feel and what I want, what I desire and what I am afraid of. And I think that was my journey. I think that was my journey through my marriage. I think that was my journey through my husband’s death. And I think that’s my journey today, right now, as I’m dealing with the dog in the glass. And you know what I mean, like?
Claire Bidwell-Smith 17:39
Ah, so how are you feeling about the book coming out? I haven’t read something this. I mean, it’s so fucking dumb to say honest, but it’s just like you really go places that I know other people are afraid to go. And you say things that other people are afraid to say even to themselves, you know. And it was so freeing to read it. It was so exciting to read it, it was really liberating. And you’ve read about grief in ways I’ve never read about and I’ve read a lot of books. How are you feeling about it coming out in the world?
Rebecca Woolf 18:12
Well, first of all, thank you for saying that. Because that is my goal. Like my whole thing is I want to talk about everything that we feel like we can’t talk about, I want to talk about all the different ways women specifically feel shame when they shouldn’t feel shame about their true feelings and experiences. And I think that again, like so much of what we allow ourselves to feel as what we are expected to feel the things that we say we’re expected to say like it’s very, very easy to appeal to others. There’s literally a script we’re born with in our back pocket, like we have it with us. So to go off script and to go off book and to say actually, this is not my reality. And this is not how I feel, this is how I feel. And this is valid to and this doesn’t make me a bad person. This makes me human person who’s going off script. Fuck your script. Yeah. Like, I want to have those conversations. And it’s not just about grief and death, or even sex, it’s about it’s about like our, the emotional interior that we have that we hide from one another because we’re afraid that when we expose that people are going to come for us. And the thing the thing that like my experience has been because it’s been really interesting is people are like, I’m so worried about you and I’m so nervous that people are going to come for you or like there’s been all this fear sort of and this is like strangers have said this people I love have said this this like you need to protect yourself and I’m worried and I think what’s been most surprising to me and of course people are gonna have their feelings and that’s fine. Like I’m fine with people. Will disagreeing with me like not liking me like I’ve been on the internet for 20 years like I’m used to that that’s like very much part of the jam.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 20:09
For listeners who might not be picking up like, what do you think that things are that your friends and whoever are afraid for you about?
Rebecca Woolf 20:15
I wrote about feeling relieved, you know, there was a lot of relief and not having to you know, I didn’t want him to die. But I, you know, it’s a relief not to have to deal with him. You know, and I know a lot of women who are married to people who are still alive and we have these conversations, like there’s people feel sorry for me in this way where I have a real privilege and not having to deal with my acts like, let’s be honest, and people don’t want to say that out loud. Or they’ll say that in quiet. But you know, I’m saying it out loud. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying that out loud. I think you have a really difficult marriage and for a lot of people a difficult end to the marriage
Claire Bidwell-Smith 20:58
a lot about him and he sounds like a really difficult person. I mean, there were parts of that that were really hard to read, you know?
Rebecca Woolf 21:04
Yeah, yeah. And he was and also, by the way, I am not sugarcoating that I was any mean I was not a perfect I mean, I cheated on him. I wrote about that. I cheated on him through our entire marriage literally from you know, the beginning. And I think that’s the other thing. I think a lot of people have a hard time with infidelity. And they have a really hard time with specifically women talking about infidelity in a way that doesn’t make them feel ashamed because I didn’t feel-ish, I still don’t feel shame about it. I’m very, like, comfortable talking about it. I’m very comfortable talking about I mean; I don’t It was wrong of me to lie. It was wrong of me to hide. But I also think there’s another side of that worlds like, Okay, well, let’s talk about why I was lying. Why I was hiding. There’s a story there too. And I think that’s a really important part of the conversation and why women hide why we lie, why we create secret lives for ourselves, why we build escape hatches, in the way of other people’s bodies, like what is that? Where does that come from our need to do that. And now sort of on the other end of my marriage, you know, I’ve like, written pretty openly about my want not to be in a monogamous situation. At least not at the moment. Because, you know, there was a I like, I that was something that was hard for me to do in my marriage. So I’ve really sort of it’s been really important for me to be transparent with partners. Now. I don’t want to lie ever again. I don’t want to be that guy. Like I don’t want to be the lying cheating wife. But at the same time, you know, there’s this whole other, there’ so many different ways to have relationships, and we’re so unimaginative when it comes to really everything.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 23:15
But you’ve write about things that I’ve only ever heard women tell me in person, you know, like, I’ve heard so many women tell me stories of unhappy marriages and infidelity. And, you know, wishing their husbands were dead. You know, like so many things that people have only ever told me in person, and you don’t see them in books. And I do wonder how people are going to react. I mean, I think there will be so many people who are just be so grateful that you put it out there. I mean, somebody has to start right. Like if you go first, and then maybe there will be lots more to follow. But what I mean, what, what are people going to do if they don’t like it? Like, send you nasty Instagram comments?
Rebecca Woolf 23:56
I mean, they’ve been doing that for years. So that’s what I’m saying. Like I don’t like the responses have been really positive. And it’s really been this conversation of like, oh my god, like this is how exactly how I feel, but I would never say it out loud. And like, when you’re hearing over and over, this is exactly how I feel. But I would never say it out loud. You’re like, why? Why won’t you say it out loud? This is why I felt urgent to write this book. Because if women if people don’t feel like they can speak their truth out loud, and yeah, this is such a universal experience. Then like we have to start having these conversations. There’s nothing wrong with being with talking about this stuff. Like I don’t I’m I stand by every word. I just did my audio book and it was interesting because as I was reading it, I was like, fuck..
Claire Bidwell-Smith 24:41
To read the whole thing out loud?
Rebecca Woolf 24:43
It’s such a trip and it’s like this weird you’re in like this little box within like the audio engineer gives you a Kleenex box. It feels like you’re in a therapy session with yourself. I guess that’s sort of what it is. It’s like this four day long. And you’re going through everything and I was thinking before I went in there I was like, am I going to be reading this going what the fuck? Like, why did I write this? What am I going to you know, I was like, worried before I went in that I was gonna have these feelings in my guts too late. It’s done. And there wasn’t a single word that I would have changed, tweaked, rewritten, like, I felt so like, like, proud of myself.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 25:22
Yeah, that’s awesome.
Rebecca Woolf 25:23
Like, I was like, I you know what, like, I this was really brave.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 25:29
Was it hard to write? Or did it just pour out of you?
Rebecca Woolf 25:31
No, it wasn’t hard to write. I mean, it was hard to write in terms of the fact that it was quarantined. And I was surrounded by kids. And I was I wrote it in my bed, you know, while like, four different kids are outside of it, like in school, like that part was hard. But it didn’t. It wasn’t emotionally. I mean, I mean, obviously, it was, but it was, it was definitely like, I mean, you’re a writer, too. You understand. Like, there’s, it’s almost like this. Like, catharsis feels like a like an obvious word. But it’s not it’s, you have to do it. Like, yeah, that’s exactly right. It’s not even for me, it feels like there’s no other choice, right? You know, like, it wasn’t like, Oh, my God, it was like, This is what I do now. And this is what I was always going to do now. And he knew that too. He had said that, to me, while he was dying. He’s like, you’re gonna, the reason it’s called all of this is because he said to me, you have to write about all of this when I die. And at the beginning, it was, it was when I talked to my agent about writing this book. Originally, it was not this book, it was the book that he thought I was gonna write the book that I always wrote the story, which was not that it wasn’t, it wasn’t honest. But it was a story. And yeah, I kept sitting down to write that book, The like, the grief book that everyone’s probably read 100 times. And was like, man, no, this is I can’t, I gotta like, I’m gonna have to do it this way. And, and I wanted to write about all the different things that a lot of people were like, really is that needs to be in a book about grief. Like you’re gonna write about, like sexual awakening. You’re like, what like, because, like, yeah, that’s part of it. You’re with someone who loses their lifeforce. I think finding ways to feel that is very normal. And also something we don’t talk about this idea that like, widows must grieve and like, not date, like their people say too soon, too soon, too soon, a new date after death. And like, I’ve talked to a lot of women, a lot of widows who had similar feelings that I did, which was like the moment he died. He just wanted to fuck. And I’m not even saying like, weeks later, months later, I’m saying the night he died. I was like, if I could, like I would have, yeah, I was like, so down to clown immediately. There was like, it felt visceral. Like, you felt like I couldn’t eat it was a it like the animal self, which is like, I was just with someone when their life force left them. How do I remind myself? Like, it just there’s so much there’s so many things that are so taboo to say out loud, and I don’t want them to be. In short.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 28:18
So I mean, that leads us to like, where we’re sitting today, which is, what, four or five days after Roe v. Wade. And I mean, isn’t this how we got here by not saying that things we need to say? I mean, exactly. Isn’t this what happened? You’ve been writing some really powerful stuff on Instagram, your last couple of posts. Just really amazing. But like, I mean, isn’t this how we got here? Yes. Isn’t this how this happened?
Rebecca Woolf 28:51
Yes, this is how all of this happens. This is, this is the problem. This is the like, and you know, this is why we’re told to be good to be nice to be quiet to behave all of these things. Because when we don’t, when we say, when we tell the truth, and everyone else is like me, too. I mean, this is how the me to movement was born. Right? It was like people started telling the truth, and then it was like an avalanche. And you’re like, oh, every single person I know has either been raped or assaulted like oh, right of course and yet we all don’t talk about like it is dangerous not to talk honestly about what has happened and this is and when you don’t the people who keep perpetuating whatever abuse and you know, stripping away bodily autonomy and you have your just all of it, no one’s challenging them. So they get to take a tour with the fuck they want to.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 29:44
I think you’re right we got here by not telling the truth we got here by not talking to our daughters about abortion we got here by not telling our own stories. You know, we got here by just not saying the truth of what’s been really going on. I mean, all these people that are coming fourth now to tell their stories. There’s so many again, you know?
Rebecca Woolf 30:07
I mean, the fear of judgment is so ingrained. So what happens when you raise a new generation when you start when you basically, when you’re not afraid to be judged, you’re free period, period. That is the goal. The goal is to get to a point where you can openly be who you are, whether that’s gender wise, sexual orientation, whether it’s your whatever it is, you are, whoever you are, if you can get to a point where you don’t feel ashamed, telling the world, your story, your feelings, your identity, who you are without shame, then you’re free. And I think a lot of women think they’re free, and aren’t. And there’s this false sense of freedom. And they’re not, but that’s really it. It’s super simple. It’s so simple. And the thing is, too is like, when you’re..
Claire Bidwell-Smith 31:00
Simple but it’s hard to get there sometimes
Rebecca Woolf 31:04
But that’s why the more if you’re at a point, and I think like, you know, we got to a point, as we get older, where we stop, we stop caring what people think. And you know, people raise, like, I turned 40, and I stopped giving a fuck or whatever, I give fewer fucks at 40 or whatever, like the like, the thing is, and it’s true. So I also feel like as an older, like, as an older lady, like, you get to a point, and it feels like a responsibility to be like, Okay, I can now I’m now at a point where I’m okay with being judged. I’m okay with being disliked. I’m okay with people disagreeing with me. I can now be more honest about my experience. And hopefully, like there’s a trickle down. I don’t know. Yeah, I mean, I don’t think my mother and her mother and her mother were honest about their experiences when they turned a certain age because they really weren’t allowed to be, I think we’re sort of in a sweet spot where people are starting, there’s a little bit of it, there’s a shift happening, and you can feel it. And you can feel a shift, it’s a lot easier to say like, okay, the stakes are still high. But there’s something happening here, there’s something else happening here and I can feel it, I can feel it like in my body. And if I’m willing to go to get out there with, you know, in this sort of energetic shift, like maybe I can be helpful or make somebody feel less alone or more willing to be honest, or feel less shame about their experience, you know, or whatever.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 32:37
Oh, my gosh, Rebecca, I’m so grateful to you for being one of those early people like early bloggers, early truth tellers, early memoir writers, I think that you are really helping that shift to get stronger and bigger. And I am personally just so grateful to you for it.
Rebecca Woolf 32:55
Thank you. Thank you for having me, Claire, I love you a lot.
Claire Bidwell-Smith 33:05
I can’t commend Rebecca enough for her honesty. I don’t want to call her brave. It feels a little trite. But I really think she is for telling the truth about her life. Think about social media. We all know that people want to present their best selves on Instagram, Facebook, tick tock or whatever else. I mean, I don’t post pics of the hardship that goes on in my marriage or with my kids. But the absence of those treats can trick us into a sense that life shouldn’t have those moments. It should only be smiles and happiness and love. But that picture perfect existence is not real life. Life is messy as hell. And that’s nothing to be ashamed of. Thank you to Rebecca for reminding us of that. Before I go, our world needs more grief support than ever. If you’ve ever considered working in the field of grief and loss, I’d love for you to consider joining me for my grief certification training course. This program is designed to help deepen your understanding of grief and end of life work. And it’s open to students, counselors, therapists, nurses, even yoga and art teachers. Anyone working in a professional setting, use code NewDay15 for 15% off registration, and visit my website ClaireBidwellSmith.com to learn more. That’s it for today. Make sure you subscribe to the show so that you never miss an episode, because there are three episodes every week now. Have a great weekend and see you Monday.
NEW DAY is a Lemonada Media Original. The show is produced by Kryssy Pease and Erianna Jiles. Kat Yore is our engineer. Music is by Hannis Brown. Our VP of weekly content is Steve Nelson. And our executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and me, Claire Bidwell Smith. NEW DAY is produced in partnership with the Well Being Trust, The Jed Foundation and Education Development Center. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Follow us at @LemonadaMedia across all social platforms, or find me at clairebidwellsmith.com. Join our Facebook group to connect with me and fellow NEW DAY listeners at facebook.com/groups/newdaypod. You can also get bonus content and behind the scenes material by subscribing to Lemonada Premium on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening. See you next week.