On the heels of his retirement announcement, Dr. Anthony Fauci answers crowdsourced questions on fall boosters, the CDC’s changing mask and isolation guidelines, polio, and monkeypox. He also talks candidly about the problems within the CDC and tells Andy what he plans to do with his free time once he steps down from federal service.
Keep up with Andy on Twitter @ASlavitt.
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Check out these resources from today’s episode:
- Read more about Anthony’s retirement: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/politics/fauci-retire.html
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Andy Slavitt, Tony Fauci
Andy Slavitt 00:18
Welcome to IN THE BUBBLE. This is your host, Andy Slavitt. It is Wednesday, August 24th. Welcome to the show. We have Anthony Fauci on today. It is a terrific show, as we usually do when we have Tony on, I send out a tweet, and get back your questions that you want me to pose to Tony. We had several 100 of them. Tony is just absolutely great about answering them. And he’s even more loose than usual because of the news that he is retiring at the end of the year. And I think we are the first major interview, the first deep interview he gives, since that announcement, we don’t get to that till the end, because that really wasn’t the focus of your questions. But I do talk to him a little bit about it. But your questions were really about coming boosters, when to get them, the rise of other variants of polio, of monkey pox, what all this is telling us, what all this is telling him. And as always, he does a great job answering the questions. If you’re new to the show, I want to just give you a quick synopsis of the last couple of shows we’ve had, because it’s been a pretty interesting run, in the month of August alone. And in the Bible. We’ve had episodes on the case for climate optimism with two of the best climate folks in the world who came on just as we were reviewing what’s in the climate bill, Leah Stokes and Gavin Schmidt, we had the two of the best clinicians who treat COVID every day on to talk about what to do if you get COVID, we had a great journalist on to talk about family separation and a deep dive into what happened during the family separation policy process. With all the noise around monkey pox, we got the newly appointed White House COVID czars to come on the show and talk about the White House response. We did a show on the various cases against Trump, with Benjamin Wittes and Jessica Levinson. And that interestingly enough, many of you told us that that was one of your favorite episodes ever surprise, since it wasn’t an original topic, but I think the guests were so good. And then on Monday, we had Matthew McConaughey, who is, as everyone knows, and Oscar winning actor, also from Uvalde, Texas. And he made a bit of news after the shooting by going down and talking to the families, and then going to Washington to argue that we need to unite ourselves to save lives, spoke from the White House, and then came on this show to tell that story. So a lot of great episodes, if you want to go back and listen.
Andy Slavitt 02:58
Look, a lot of podcasts, I’ve come to find out. I’m not from this world. But a lot of podcasts I’ve gotten to find out, do a couple of things that we don’t do on in the bubble. One of them is they charge for content or lock up their good content. And so you get to play a little bit of it for free. But if you want anything that’s either a little bit old or a little bit deeper, you got to pay, we don’t do that a lot of podcasts have come to find out are about yelling and screaming, and are very opinionated and paint everybody as evil or a very strong point of views that are very in your face about them. They have the right to do that. But we don’t, we don’t do that. And a lot of podcasts are about making the host or the label or something rich and famous. We’re not about that. You may know we don’t need the profits of our show, to various causes that are helping people. This is a show a label lemonade, a media that was born out of tragedy when a young man died suddenly from an overdose. So we don’t do that stuff. So why do we do this show? You know, I think we tried to make this show out of love for the audience, out of what Fred Rogers said, find the helpers and we try to be one of them. So all I humbly ask is that you listen and enjoy and tell us what you think. And then two additional things which I don’t ask for a lot, but I would mention here, one is tell your friends to subscribe. If you’re enjoying the show, tell your friends to subscribe and give us a review. Tell us what you think. Give us a review on Apple or wherever you listen. That’s it. I don’t want you to pay. I want you to be part of the kind of given culture I don’t want you to have to listen to yelling and screaming. And we’re gonna continue to bring out great guests and great topics. So thank you for that. Well, I guess I should say that’s one reason we make the show. The other reason we make this show is I need a captive audience for my dad jokes. And if I can and hear you guys groan when I tell them. And that means a lot. So thank you. So Fauci is on. I think you’re gonna love this episode, I think you’re gonna hopefully get your questions answered. Let’s bring him on. And then in upcoming shows, I’m going to talk about some of the things that are changing about the way we’re fighting the pandemic, namely, that the government is basically run out of funds. And we’ll run out of funds by the middle of January to buy vaccines and by therapies, and by tests any longer. And no one’s really talking about that. So I’m gonna feature that I’m writing about it now. It’s been a lot of time on it. And it’s a big transition for us. So that you can expect to come up here on other episodes as well. Alright, let’s go get Tony.
Tony Fauci 06:01
Andy, how are you?
Andy Slavitt 06:02
I’m a lot better now that I’m seeing you.
Tony Fauci 06:05
We miss you, Andy.
Andy Slavitt 06:07
That’s nice. But I miss you. I mean, I miss all you guys. But I really do miss you. You’re one of my favorite humans.
Tony Fauci 06:12
Well, thank you. That’s very nice of you.
Andy Slavitt 06:15
Because you’re good human. And man. Some days. That’s enough.
Tony Fauci 06:22
Andy Slavitt 06:24
Indeed. Well, thanks for coming back. You know, you, I think you’ve got about a half hour-ish. Okay. That’s what they tell us. And so I’m going to try to do what we usually do when you come on, which is, we source questions, we got them down to 10. And so by my math, I mean, your scientist, so you check me we got like about three minutes per question and answer. Okay, that math about right to you?
Tony Fauci 06:47
That sounds good.
Andy Slavitt 06:48
Verified. So you verified the math. First question is actually mine, which is you had COVID. And by the way, so did I like right after you did? And you had a bounce back case, you went on Paxlovid. First of all, how are you doing? And secondly, what did you learn from that? Were there anything you learned from that that changed your perception of this virus?
Tony Fauci 07:11
Well, it’s remarkable transmissibility. And the because I have been compulsively careful about wearing masks and not, you know, being exposed in congregate settings. And I know exactly when I got infected. I had to go up to my 60 of college reunion where they were honoring me by naming a building the Anthony Fauci Science Center, which was such a wonderful honor. And I went into the reception and all of my classmates from the class of 1962. Were unmasked, they saw me they got very enthusiastic, they can be give hugs. So I looked, I felt I looked so out of place with a mask on. I literally took my mask off for about 45 minutes, mingling with them and their family. Went back, put my mask on. Five days later, bingo, I was infected. That’s all it took. So that’s the first thing I learned. The second thing was the remarkable diminution of symptoms within 12 to 18 hours after I took my packs of it, it really made a difference. I mean, I was sniffling and a headache and a little bit aches, I took packs, the vid in the first doses were the afternoon dose. But the following morning, I was completely asymptomatic, which tells me that it really does work as an antiviral. Wow. So those were my two lessons that I personally learned was the incredible transmissibility. And the fact that Paxlovid did work.
Andy Slavitt 08:51
And I did the monoclonal is because I’m not eligible for Paxlovid because of some other medication I’m on. And I will tell you that I thought the monoclonal were fantastic. At least in my case.
Tony Fauci 09:03
No, no, I’m sure it is. It’s a, you know, a powerful antiviral, and it’s in very high concentrations when you get an infusion, because it lasts for weeks to months. So you figure the level that the peak was incredible. You bet.
Andy Slavitt 09:18
Yeah, I feel super strong. Okay, second question is about the buy Vaillant booster. We got a number of questions on this. In fact, I talked to K lift this morning, and he was more enthusiastic than we usually hear it misses the FDA commissioner for those of you don’t know. So I think the question people have is, when will they be able to get it? Should they wait, if they haven’t been boosted for the by Vaillant? And then if it comes out in September, should they get it right away? Or does it make sense to wait because we don’t know how long it’ll last and we want it to go through the winter. Those are the questions we got on the by Vaillant.
Tony Fauci 09:56
Okay. Okay, three parts an it’s Gonna be available the first or second week in September, from Pfizer, and probably the end of September, beginning of October for Moderna. Number two, if you are an elderly person with an underlying condition, and you have not been vaccinated in calendar year, boosted in calendar year 2022, you shouldn’t wait. Because given the degree of viral dynamics with BA five right now, as you and I are speaking, you’re in danger. So I wouldn’t wait. If you’re an otherwise healthy person, a young person, or even someone who’s a little bit older, but still very few have any underlying conditions. I would wait because the chances if you’re vaccinated, but unboosted, of getting a severe illness is low. If you really want to get the updated booster of a BA5, I would wait. And the third part of your question is, when it does become available, should you get it right away? Or should you wait, you know, one of the dangers Andy in waiting for an outbreak to occur is that by the time you know what’s occurred, you may be one of the vulnerable people that got infected. So if I had not been boosted, in, let’s say, the last six months or so, and it came out in the middle of September, I would probably get it right away, or try and coincide it with the influenza vaccine, tried to get them both at the same time.
Andy Slavitt 11:34
So if you have a loved one in a nursing home, and you’re really concerned, and you want it to be through the winter, you’d get it right away in September. And hope it lasts. I mean, we don’t know how long they’re gonna last. But hope it lasts enough through the wave rather than waiting. Is that best advice?
Tony Fauci 11:49
Yeah, I would. I would. Yeah. Okay.
Andy Slavitt 11:52
I think you may have touched on this already. But the third question we got was people under 50. Many of them haven’t gotten a second booster. They haven’t been eligible. What’s the strategy for them? Is it I think you said it’s wait until a couple of weeks; you’ll be able to get the new booster. That’s the best way to go.
Tony Fauci 12:09
Yeah. So if I’m 45 years old, and otherwise healthy, and I’ve only gotten one boost, I would absolutely wait until September. If I’m 45 years old, and I have diabetes, and chronic congestive heart failure, I might not wait. I may do it right away.
Andy Slavitt 12:30
Got it. What have you seen about this booster? That’s going to be different? What expectations would you set based on data you’ve seen or things that you’ve inferred from what you’ve seen in the lab? On this booster?
Tony Fauci 12:43
Yeah, well, there’s no clinical work to show that it’s better. But if you look at the neutralizing antibody titer against BA five, when you give a BA five specific boost, it is considerably more than if you give the standard vaccine The good thing about the by valent. And the is that it’s a by valence, so it gives you the broad coverage of the ancestral strain. At the same time as you get a BA five specific boost. So right now, we’re 89%, of everything that’s circulating, that’s causing the 100,000 infections a day, the 400 deaths, that’s 89%, BA five, so BA5 is still hanging around, it’s not going to completely disappear in September, we hope it’s gonna go down, but it’s still going to be around. So you get a pretty good advantage. If you get a BA five specific by valen boost in September versus just getting a standard boost.
Andy Slavitt 13:50
Got it. And I was seeing variants. Now, whether the variant we saw in India, well, it’s hard for me to keep track of all the decimals […]. Are we seeing things now that look like they could out-compete BA5? And should we be assuming that even if we don’t see one now, one will emerge? That is better at evading? It will be there soon for the next wave?
Tony Fauci 14:15
I think we can make a reasonable assumption that as long as there’s viral dynamics and the viral replicate, the viral spread and community is not really, really low. If it’s at the level it is right now, without a doubt you are going to get a variant different than the BA four or five. The question is, how effective is it going to be in getting a transmission advantage? Over BA5? It may not it may be a variant that’s a wimping variant. You know you call it a whimper that it doesn’t go anywhere. But it doesn’t appear to be anything that we’re seeing is the BA4.6 And the BA2.75 That you were talking about. Those don’t see seem to have any significant transmission advantage over the BAA five right now.
Andy Slavitt 15:05
Good. That’s good. Okay, so a type of COVID this is the next question. We got monkey pox, polio in the wastewater, the lengthy virus detected in China. What the heck is going on? What should we be concerned about? What are you concerned about?
Tony Fauci 15:25
Well, I’m concerned about not the proper utilization of the countermeasures that we have. So let’s take monkey pox. You know, monkey pox is an evolution of a virus. That is the result of the fact that we eradicated smallpox back in 1977-1980. And the global coverage against monkey pox was so good, we didn’t see any monkey pox. So then when we stopped vaccinating people, monkey pox, which was endemic in an animal species jumped into humans, and now we’re starting to see it endemic in South Africa. Unfortunately, someone who got infected in Africa, went to one of those Gay Pride galas and inserted it into a vulnerable population because of the sexual networks. And that’s why we’re seeing it. Now. If we get the vaccines and the antivirals implemented, and there’s reasonable attention to behavioral modification, at least for a while, until we get it under control, I think we’re going to be okay. But we’ve got to do it. We’ve got to implement it polio. The one case of paralytic polio in Rockland County, New York, was a secondary case of a vaccine related polio. In other words, the Live Attenuated Vaccine that’s still given in many countries, not in the United States. A person can get it, you get an oral polio you secreted or excreted in the stool, and it can revert to a pathogenic form, and then start infecting people who were not vaccinated. So if you look at what happened in Rockland County, 60% of the kids in Rockland County are not vaccinated, and in some parts of the county 37% are not vaccinated. What’s the solution? It’s simply the get the kids vaccinated. And we wouldn’t be talking about polio, because the inactivated Salk vaccine, which we give in the United States with a four shot regimen is 99% effective in preventing polio. I mean, can you believe that 99% effective, it doesn’t make any sense not to vaccinate your children against polio.
Andy Slavitt 17:53
Anybody that was alive or seen even photographs of people, the 1930s 40s and 50s. And watched young children lose the ability to walk, I think they’d be running to get vaccinated, fast. I want to come back and after the break and ask you about whether or not our own childhood polio vaccines, whether they’re still effective, and keep going on some of the things going on with the CDC and public health guidance. So someone asks, this is the fifth question someone asked is, if they got a polio vaccine back when they were a kid? Is it still going to be effective? Do they need a booster now? And if they’ve never gotten a vaccine and a polio vaccine, then they’re an adult, should they get one now?
Tony Fauci 18:54
Okay, answer to your second question. Without a doubt, if you never got a polio vaccine, you should get the series now, Number two, if you were vaccinated as a child the way I was, I could consider myself protected in an environment in which there’s not a lot of polio, because the odds of you’re getting exposed with a modest degree of protection that you’ll likely have if you travel to a place where there’s a lot of polio, even if I were vaccinated when I was eight, 910 years old, I still should get a booster. For example, if I were going to go on a health related trip, you know, the if the Secretary sent me to Pakistan or to Afghanistan, on a mission related to the department, I definitely would get vaccinated with polio. Definitely.
Andy Slavitt 19:47
Okay. That’s clear. All right, next question. We’ve got new guidance from the CDC quarantining and isolation guidance, the masking guidance. What if you could talk a little But about it, what you think the reaction is how you feel about it as guidance for the public?
Tony Fauci 20:07
Well, the answer is that was an attempt, an understandable attempt to try and get us back to some degree of normality. So that we’re not dominated by the presence of COVID. There’s a bit of a risk there. And the because when you pull back on mitigation, if you get a substantial amount of dynamics of virus in the community, you can get into trouble. I think that it is reasonable for them to be pulling back. For example, in New York, following the guidances, they don’t give you a screening test for illness when you get in. Masks are not mandatory. The six foot rule no longer applies. Those things are reasonable Andy, because my daughter is a teacher in an elementary school, and she tells me, Dad, there’s no chance I’m going to separate my kids by six feet. Because there’s just too many kids in the classroom, you’d have to build another school to do that. So I think some of the change in the liberalization of the guidelines are somewhat risky, you gotta be honest about it. But I think it’s an appropriate way to go to try and get back to some degree of normality.
Andy Slavitt 21:22
Yeah, I mean, as with everything that comes out, you get both types of criticism, right? You heard from plenty of people who’ve said, hey, there’s so late, they’re only just catching up to the way people are already behaving. And then another set of people, many of whom have people in their lives who are at risk are immunocompromised, to feel personally at risk, who say, hey, wait a minute. Once again, this is people who are feeling safe themselves being given permission to ignore the rest of us. Right? And it’s a hard thing. But do you have thoughts for people who, say are concerned about long COVID? or long term health risks or immunocompromised? Or in that type of situation where the risks you talk about? They don’t fall evenly? They fall on some people harder than others?
Tony Fauci 22:13
Right? And that for that reason, what I say I mean, if there is a situation where there’s liberalization, and I have an at risk child, I would just make my daughter or my son, wear a mask in school, even though it’s not mandatory. If the other kids are not wearing I wear a mask, I would do that I would really avoid the congregate settings. Even when you’re out at lunch, when kids take their mask off. I would just be very, very careful. That is a real important problem is how do you balance the societal responsibility for the vulnerable with trying to get society back to some degree of normality? That’s a lot of tension there Andy, a lot of tension.
Andy Slavitt 23:00
Yeah, no, and I’m thinking about your story at the beginning, which we’ve all felt, which is you walk into a room wearing a mask, you feel a little bit, the center of attention a little bit foolish when other people aren’t. Even the strongest of us can have this moment where we’re like, what the heck, I want to take it off, something probably won’t happen. And then I put that on an eight year old kid, right 10 year old kid, where people you know, love to tease and love to mock and love to point out differences and how hard that must be. And so I understand people’s feeling challenged at a moment like this, and it’s and when you’re the CDC is your obligation to normalcy or it’s your obligation to protect the people who are most at risk.
Tony Fauci 23:47
It’s a tough call, and as you said, so appropriately. You can argue either side of it cogently? You know, you can.
Andy Slavitt 23:56
Let’s, you mentioned schools and your daughter. Let’s talk a little bit about schools. I think people’s question around schools are around air filtration around monkey pox risk. We got heard from a number of teachers who want to know if you have any advice on how to think about public health issues in schools, and I think that probably applies to colleges as well, where, you know, let’s face it there. There’s a lot of skin on skin contact in college. So I’m told.
Tony Fauci 24:30
You and I never had that we were studying too hard. I know. Exactly. So, you know, Andy, first of all, let’s take ventilation. You know, the federal government has made some significant investments in the approving of ventilation in school, given what we’ve painfully learned over the last two and almost two thirds years of COVID is the aerosol transmission of this virus is pretty significant. And that’s the reason why there’s a major difference between outdoor transmission and indoor transmission. So anything we can do to really increase ventilation, even if it’s besides, the airflow in the room is to get one of those pretty big HEPA filters and put a couple of them in each classroom there. They’re not that expensive. They really are not. The other thing is, you mentioned monkey pox, like, what does it teach you to do? My daughter asked me the same question the other night. Dad, I understand that they have now seven kids in this country that have been infected with monkey pox, likely because of a hugging and holding of a parent who has it, that was very likely the way it happened. So if that happens that way, what happens when kids play with each other? The answer is you got to be stay heads up until we get this under control. So if you see a lesion on a kid or a kid complains of it, take it seriously. It may not just be a pimple, you know, it might actually be monkey pox.
Andy Slavitt 26:08
Yeah. Well, in our house where our protection is our boys won’t hug us. They’re too cool for that. So we’re probably safer, because we got to macho young men who you know, that into the hugging their parents thing, to their parents deep chagrin, by the way.
Tony Fauci 26:25
I understand that, well, they’re safe on monkeypox, but they’re losing out on an emotional bid.
Andy Slavitt 26:30
100%. And that’s what I try to tell them. I’m gonna say, can I say Dr. Fauci says, an occasional hug of your dad and your mom is good for your health.
Tony Fauci 26:41
Absolutely, absolutely. You can quote me.
Andy Slavitt 26:45
I love it. Well, we’ll come back, we’re gonna finish up with what’s gonna be next for Tony Fauci. We’ll be right back. Okay, next question. We are so efficient. I love this. Okay. So last week, Rochelle Walensky. And the CDC did something pretty extraordinary. So extraordinary that I can’t really recall the last time I saw someone doing this. They said, you know what, we should have done our jobs better. We, as the CDC, which is speaking of her own organization, have accountability for something’s going wrong, and we need to improve? And first of all, people don’t do that in life very often. People do it in Washington, literally never. Because you get here, he’s got oversight, you know, people look for weakness. So it was a really important and interesting thing to do. And I think we should be admiring of it. And we should give the opportunities for reforms to take place. That’s my opinion. I’d love your opinion. So let me ask you the question this way. If you’re going to fill in the blank to this sentence, how would you finish it? As a government, when it comes to public health, we need to get better at blank.
Tony Fauci 28:20
We need to get better at interacting with the public in a way that is really meaningful in real time with them, the CDC has had for decades, Andy, I have been the director of NID for 38 years. So I have almost four decades of experience with them. They have some really wonderful, good people there. But the culture down there was flawed, flawed with sharing information, flawed with putting certain things as a priority, the way Rochelle mentioned, you know, publishing is more important than getting a public health measure out those kinds of things. So they’ve recognized the problem. It had been a flawed organization, it took a historic pandemic, to shine a bright light on it. However, I congratulate and have a great deal of respect for what she and they have done. They’ve recognized the Legion. And as she said, The only way to fix it is to own it. And they’re owning it and they’re going to try and fix it. I don’t think it’s going to be easy, because it’s a deep seated culture. But at least you have a commitment from the top that they’re going to take a look at it and try and correct it. And I just think that’s admirable. And I and I really feel very favorably disposed to them. I mean, so many of them are my friends and colleagues. And I think They’re now if they do follow this, which I hope they do, they’re on the right track. Yep.
Andy Slavitt 30:06
And there’s a couple things you said that I want to echo drive home. One of them is, just because your organization has flaws, doesn’t mean the individuals that on the organization are flawed. We all know, you could put nine great baseball players on a baseball team and a baseball field and lose every game. Because of the way you’re organized because of the way your coach because the way you’re set up, because you don’t play well with the wind, because you don’t play well with the grass for a lot of reasons. And so what Michelle did, should be interpreted as this organization has problems that need to be fixed. It doesn’t mean it should be interpreted as the people of the CDC, somehow are not people who are doing their jobs. I think that’s what you said. And I want to echo that, right? As they think about reforming, figuring out how to get better. It’s about breaking old habits. It’s about not worrying about being correct. And worrying about action. It’s about doing things differently than the things that you’ve done. Historically. It’s about understanding the difference between normal times and pandemic times and adjusting. As you said, Those are hard things. They’re cultural, they’re operational. Many organizations try to change take years, some of them don’t succeed at it. What’s your best advice? And by the way, a really wonderful woman that you and I both know, named Mary Wakefield is going to be in there to help implement the reforms, which is great. But what’s your advice to the people at the CDC, leaders at the CDC, on how to go through this change in a productive way? And in the end, there’s a big prize winning back support to the American public and being effective is what they all want to do.
Tony Fauci 32:04
Right? Well, the advice I would give them, Andy is and with some trepidation, because I always hesitate to give advice to people when they’re going through a problem. But from my perspective, from what I’ve seen, one of the things they really need to do is to embrace outside opinion, you don’t have to take the outside opinion, but don’t reject it. Very often, when we were dealing with things, any input from non-outs from outside people, non-CDC people, was looked upon as an encroachment in their lane, as opposed to, hey, maybe you have a really good idea here. And if I think if they open that up, and at least listen to a diversity of outside opinion, they have the talent, they have the experience. They’re better than that, better at it than most anybody. But when you’re insular in your own little vacuum, that’s when you get into trouble. So that would be my advice to follow that rule of open up your thinking to two opinions and advice from other people.
Andy Slavitt 33:23
Yep. Yep. And the one other thing, I probably wouldn’t have a top of that, as I think about the work. You and I and others have done. Be briefly you over a career doing public health communication, is, when we sat up there talk to the public, I always, in my mind, had this sense of talking to my own sister, right? And the reason I’d say that is because my sister is a very smart person. She has lots of questions that are normal. Those questions aren’t dumb. She’s not an expert in public health by any means. And if she asked me a question, and she called me on the phone and said, Hey, Andy, what should I do about x? I’d want to give the public the same advice. I’d give her real straight talk real talk practical. Hey, I think about it this way. Think about it, just like you did on the show when you’ve always done. And I think it’s easy to lose that when you’re the CDC, and you have to speak to hundreds of millions of people, lots of constituents, every situation. And so you sometimes dumb it down or keep it safe, or overgeneralize. And it’s very hard and just go back to the simple thing of sitting and talking to someone you’d love, it telling them what you think they need to hear. Last question for you. 10th question. You announced your retirement that is coming up, you’re a guy who has worked harder every day than almost anybody I know. Day in and day out answer the call, notification, when your mind’s eye when you close your eyes and picture. Tony Fauci not at NIH, what does it look like? Are we going to Sundance games? Are you going to go back to the old country and hang out with folks in Italy? Are you? Are you gonna take lots of walks with your wife? You’re gonna be going to college reunions? What’s like, what are you? What are you looking at me, I’m in a T-shirt, you’re in a suit, I’m wearing a hat. You know, what comes to mind?
Tony Fauci 35:21
Well, two things come to mind, Andy, and I’m pretty sure it’s going to happen that way, is that I still have a considerable amount of energy and passion, about public health medicine and in science. So when I stepped down from federal service, I’m not going to retire in the sense of that said, I’m going to go play golf, or go travel and do things like that. I have 54 years at the NIH, as a physician, scientist, and 38 years, as the director of the Institute, what I would like to do is to write, to teach, and to lecture to give younger generation, the benefit of my experience, and perhaps, to my hope, inspire younger generation to go into public service. And hopefully, public service, in the field of medicine and science. That’s what I’m going to be doing. But I will be doing it hopefully at a pace where I can do things with my wife and family that I have sacrificed dramatically for the last multiple decades. But the idea about getting other people to benefit from my experience is really my one passion and goal when I stepped down,
Andy Slavitt 36:48
That’s a great vision. But does it mean we’re not going to a Met’s game?
Tony Fauci 36:51
No, we’re gonna go to a Met’s game for sure.
Andy Slavitt 36:53
Okay. All right, as long as you can fit me in for that. And I really look at the beautiful vision, the fact that you want to keep contributing the fact that, as we can tell, with polio, monkey, this thing ain’t ending. And we gotta build a new generation, and you’re gonna help do that is a beautiful thing, and more time with your wife and your family that so beloved. It’s all great. Thank you, Tony, as always, for coming on. And thank you for your friendship.
Tony Fauci 37:21
Well, thank you, Andy. It’s great to be with you now. And I so thoroughly enjoyed the time we spent when you were back in the administration. That was one of the highlights of my years was having fun with you and doing some good stuff.
Andy Slavitt 37:34
I’m sure it was.
Tony Fauci 37:38
Alright, take care. Thanks, bye.
Andy Slavitt 37:53
We’re gonna miss him always. He’s just a wonderful guy. And glad he’s here. He’s going to be staying in the game. So we’ll keep you from coming on. He’s such a wonderful man. My opinion here. So moving out of summer months, sorry to tell you that into the school season. And we’ve got some good episodes coming up a really amazing episode that we’ve been working on for a while on the impact of COVID on kids, and learning loss. And there’s some stunning new research out and we’ve got a great show about that. We also, at your request, have an episode coming up on how to ventilate a school in like 100 bucks and a half an hour. I’m not kidding, not just a school, but your office, your house, how you get really good levels of ventilation, to talk about those in air exchanges per hour. You know, I’m gonna have some technical about it. So we’re gonna have an episode on that coming up. And of course, Fridays are our chance to cover some of the most important news going on in the moment with our Friday conversations, and we’ve got a great one coming up on Friday, where we’re going to talk about polio, not something that if he had asked me in 2019, I thought we’d be talking about in 2022. But we have had a bit of an outbreak here in the US. We have a lot to talk about with some great guests. So that’ll be on Friday. And that is the weekend. You’re almost there. All right. Well look forward to talking to you Friday.
Andy Slavitt 39:40
Thanks for listening to IN THE BUBBLE. We’re a production of Lemonada Media. Kathryn Barnes, Jackie Harris and Kyle Shiely produced our show, and they’re great. Our mix is by Noah Smith and James Barber, and they’re great, too. Steve Nelson is the vice president of the weekly content, and he’s okay, too. And of course, the ultimate bosses, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Wittels Wachs, they executive produced the show, we love them dearly. Our theme was composed by Dan Molad and Oliver Hill, with additional music by Ivan Kuraev. You can find out more about our show on social media at @LemonadaMedia where you’ll also get the transcript of the show. And you can find me at @ASlavitt on Twitter. If you like what you heard today, why don’t you tell your friends to listen as well, and get them to write a review. Thanks so much, talk to you next time.