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This bonus episode was made possible by Flourish Ventures. Today, V learns hard money lessons in an easy way with “zillennial” financial expert Haley Sacks — or, as her droves of followers know her, Mrs. Dow Jones. As it turns out, it can be fun to learn about finances, especially when your teacher wields compassion, pop culture references, and financial advice especially geared toward women. Haley and V talk through which kind of bank account best matches your needs and help you learn how to avoid financial pitfalls driven by emotion. In other words, personal and personable tips to make money work for anyone.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

V Spehar, Haley Sacks

V Spehar  00:05

Hey friends, today we are facing our finances with self-taught financial expert Haley Sacks aka Mrs. Dow Jones. Look, no one is born being good with money. That is why Haley is here to help us out. And she says that the first step isn’t checking your bank statements, but rather evaluating your relationship to money. So sorry, to all the Dave Ramsey enthusiasts out there, this is not going to be a conversation like that. When Haley first landed a full time job, she had trouble understanding what a 401 K was, or which health plan to choose. So as a typical millennial, she took it upon herself to learn through YouTube. But she couldn’t really relate to the male centered videos that she was seeing. She wanted to set an example that talking about money can be fun and easy. Haley became one of the first thing influencers on social media using memes to teach women about money. She also provides courses through her platform financescool.com, and they are designed to narrow the financial literacy gap and take the fear out of being fiercely independent. Thank you so much to Flourish Ventures for making this conversation happen. Okay, Haley, I have to ask, how did you come up with the name Mrs. Dow Jones?

Haley Sacks  01:12

I came up with a name because I felt like growing up, I was always looking to marriage, or like my dad for financial stability. But then I realized that if you take control of your money, you can be married to your own future if you learn how to invest it. So that’s why it’s called Mrs. Jones. And it’s just cute. It’s fine. It’s lady, we love it.

V Spehar  01:36

And what I love about you is you’re self-taught finance experts. So this isn’t like some line from a textbook that like we’re all following the same business, you came up with this, you know, by yourself and have been forging a path for so many people. What issues did you start to notice, the more you researched and learned about money management?

Haley Sacks  01:54

So the first thing that I really learned was just that it was very boring to learn about. And quite uninspiring. And you know, I grew up in the age of Spice Girls, and Beyonce and Destiny’s Child. And, you know, I love a fun, fabulous woman. And to me, that’s aspirational. And so I wanted to learn about money from someone like that, because I truly believe that growing wealth, and being good with money should be aspirational.

V Spehar  02:28

So it wasn’t like Dave Ramsey. What he didn’t have like a little figurine of Dave Ramsey, or his CDs as you were walking around?

Haley Sacks  02:34

No, I actually never was exposed to him until I got into the space, which I think is lucky. Because yeah, a lot of his advice is actually really problematic. But a lot of our parents grew up with Dave Ramsey. And so, you know, when people are first starting their financial journeys, the first step is never go look at your credit card or bank statements. It’s always to look at your how you feel about money and your money mindset. And all that really comes from childhood. So you know, if your parents are big on Dave Ramsey, you’re in the right place, because I can deramsify you and get you into the abundant mindset to grow wealth.

V Spehar  03:14

So a lot of times we’ve talked about what it means to be financially healthy. But sometimes we have to recognize that we’re maybe financially unhealthy to begin with. What do you think about that concept?

Haley Sacks  03:27

Well, I think that financial wellness, it’s like, you know, do you ever read those are like, have you ever watched like the biggest loser or something? And it’ll be like, you know, the person will cut soda for one week and lose so much weight, because they just never knew that soda was bad for you. They just thought it was what they drink. And so I think that unhealthy is sort of judgmental, but when you look at it, as I’ve just never been taught this, and it’s quite intimidating, and hard and sometimes boring to learn. So I really view financial wellness and like, as tears because when I was first starting, I was like, everyone was telling me about financial goals. And I was like, what financial goals like okay, yeah, of course, I want to live on an island. Thanks. Like, is that does that count as my financial goal? Like, great, how do I get there? So that’s that I realized, Oh, actually, they’ve been again, confusing me. And really what they mean by financial goals, I mean, translated are just these levels of milestones that you need to hit and then everyone that you hit, you get closer and closer to being able to just invest and really work towards your personal financial goals. But we all pretty much have the same ones up to a certain point. So I have three tiers of financial goals that I teach in my course start here, which is part of financeiscooluniversity. And Tier one is literally just open a high yield savings account and save your first $1,000.

V Spehar  05:10

Okay, but I have to stop you there, though. Because saving $1,000 There were times in my life for like $20 would have been a life changing amount of money. So how do you like do that, you know, like, start me even smaller.

Haley Sacks  05:22

Okay, I’m gonna start smaller, but first, and I also want to say get your employer match. Okay, so that is level one. And I know that you’re saying that, that $1,000 was is so hard to get to. But that’s okay. The point is, you’re working towards something, and you need to do it in a way that like, nothing’s gonna stop you. Because when you hit that first $1,000, then you’re gonna have so much momentum, and we can get you to those other tiers. So of course, but in order to save money, you have to have income. So if you are not making money, if you don’t have a job, then yeah, that that would definitely be step one. And I say that all the time. Like, I can’t create a budget for someone who doesn’t have income. And so, you know, if you are truly broke and have nothing coming in, then that’s like, the first thing that we’ve got to work on is like, Okay, what’s your skill set, let’s get on those job boards. Let’s figure out where we can get you placed so that you can get a paycheck. But then once you have that paycheck, it’s all about spending below your means. Because remember, it does not matter how much money that you make, it matters how much money that you keep. So this is why we see teachers who are making $40,000 a year, then they die and you realize that they have like these huge investment accounts because they’re just really good at managing their money. And then you know, the Wall Street person that you think is living so well and has so much wealth, they have nothing, the amount that comes in if it’s all you’re blowing it all who cares? Doesn’t matter.

V Spehar  06:57

I have to tell you, I’m feeling very attacks, right now. Because it doesn’t matter how much money you make, it matters how much money you keep that hits so perfectly for me. Because sometimes like when we like you said, we’ve got a job now we’ve got a paycheck, we’ve got a little extra, we want to feel successful. So then we feel like we have to spend it to show everyone else how successful we are. I’ve been there. But that’s not how we do it.

Haley Sacks  07:20

So okay, so do you feel like a little bit of your spending is keeping up with the Joneses like you want? Of course, yeah. So like, give us some purchases that you’ve made that you feel like we’re for other people to think of you as doing well versus like things that you really needed or wanted.

V Spehar  07:36

Sure. So there’s like the easy ones, right? Like suits, right? I’m gonna present well, I’m going to look expensive.

Haley Sacks  07:43

Clothing is really hard, especially when you’re in like a public facing job. I think that clothing is like that. It’s brutal for me as well. So I feel you.

V Spehar  07:51

Yeah, and you’re like in these rooms with politicians or like, even when you first get I remember when I first got my first like, big girl job. And I was like, Damn, how am I going to dress for this every day like with these women in New York City, you know, like, wow, so you know, that gets tricky. The other thing that I’ve been known to do is like you have an apartment, the apartments just fine. It’s not that great. Start making a little bit more money. Now, I want a nicer apartment for what, you know, what’s the big difference there. But that cuts into your funding? It’s that common?

Haley Sacks  08:17

Lifestyle creep is what we call it. Yeah, it’s really common. And look, a certain amount of lifestyle creep is to be expected because, you know, you’re not going to live at the same level 30 years from now as you are now. But let’s not forget that Warren Buffett still lives in the house that he bought, you know, before he made he was even a millionaire. And of course, he has a lot of other properties now too, but it’s I think it’s such a great example of how important it is to keep your overhead low. Because and you know, a lot people talk a lot about the best way to be about money is like to be really quiet about it. And just to be like silently hustling, but we’re in this social media culture, where it is so like, like, you know, I did the same thing when I first made money, I bought a Louis Vuitton Limited Edition bag, and I can barely make rent. And my followers know the story of so whatever. And I still wear the bag because I’m like, I’m gonna wear this bag. This bag brought me a lot of trauma, like I’m going to use it and they’re always like, oh, you’re wearing the bag like someone didn’t sell the bag yet and I’m like, it’s a good reminder of you know, when you when you got your first paycheck you’re you forgot about taxes you forgot about you know, all the things that you actually need to spend money on and it sort of just feels like that’s money that directly you got to spend. But I think the biggest thing that will change your relationship to that is A, paying yourself first. So if we can get your budget set up so that you know I feel like a lot of it is you’re guessing right now and that’s really stressful. It’s really stressful to guess like to eyeball your finances. Like, think about it. You’re an architect and you’re eyeballing things like it wouldn’t work out And that’s how you should look at your finances too. So I am going to help you we’re going to do a 50-30-20 budget, this is 50% on needs a 30% on […], 20% on future you and that 20% that is the 20% of the money that you did not spend that month, that’s the money that we get to put to work that, you know, if you’re, you’re at level one, that 20% is going towards that $1,000. And then as we work up those levels, those tiers of financial goals, it’ll go towards other financial goals. But if you do not have money left over at the end of the month, to pay yourself and to work towards your financial goals, and you’re never going to make progress. So that’s one. And then I think that the second is really just empowering yourself with that knowledge is going to feel really good because then you’re going to be able to spend on that suit, in a way that’s not guilty. You know, that feels really good, where you’re instead of you know, that you I want you to get to the point where you are spending even more on the things that matter to you, but ruthlessly cutting everything else. You know?

V Spehar  11:05

That makes a ton of sense. Yeah, this idea that and I saw it on your Instagram, this idea of like, you’re not necessarily keeping money from yourself by saving you’re investing in in future you you’re paying yourself and when you get that mentality shift it really, it can be fun then to say like, Okay, well, this $20 is going towards me for something I actually want not something that I need to buy right now to kind of like, you know, retail therapy or just sort of like, throw away on a temporary fix for chronic depression.

Haley Sacks  11:35

Do you think that I don’t do that. So I mean, it’s a where I’m a work in progress, just like anyone. But I will say that something that really helps is knowing your why. So it’s like, scientifically proven that like when you’re in a situation like that, if you are motivated by a story in your head, it makes it easier to make the more fruitful decision. So that’s why it was really important when I started teaching to create these tiers of financial goals. So I’m going to give you those steps now. Okay, So level one, that’s your level one financial goals, we’re going to open that high yield savings account, we’re going to get the $1,000 in as quickly as possible. I know, at first you’re like how am I going to do that if I’m only have $20. But I believe in you, I’ve seen 1000s of people hit this step, when you get motivated, nothing can stop you. And you can make $1,000 actually quite quickly, you can sell things around your house, you can pick up other jobs like if you are ruthlessly pursuing that goal, I do not believe that anything can stop you. So hit it and then we’re going to get that momentum baby, we got that $1,000 that high yield savings account that I mentioned that we’re also getting our employer match on our retirement accounts, because that’s 100% return on an investment. So that’s also part of level one. Okay, level two, this is when we are going to hit up that emergency fund, we’re going to save a 6 month emergency fund in that same high yield savings account. And we are also going to pay off our high interest rate debt. And then level three is maxing out all of your tax advantaged investment accounts. So your 401K, your IRA if you have a health savings account, because you have a high deductible health care plan. So that’s all of those also making sure that those are fully funded. And then once you’re done with those three levels, then you got to decide what am I really working towards? Do I want to buy a house? Do am I saving for my kid to go to college? Is it all about retirement for me like then you can get a little bit more flexible with your dreams. But for those first three levels, I’m going to Dom you and tell you exactly what they are. And when you’re in that situation where you are going to get the suit but maybe you can’t afford it whatever. Having that idea in your head of what you’re working towards is going to make it a lot easier to walk away. And to not do the impulsive decision because you know that future you has something great coming for them. You you’re thinking of future but if you’re a future you is just you’re like bloop I don’t know what future but you’re like, I don’t know what future he was doing. That person Yeah. oh, that bitch like I could, […] she lives or she dies. Like, you know that but if you actually can, like think of who you want to be having that. You know, Oprah said, I love Oprah. Oprah said once they asked her what was like the key to success, she’s interviewed so many people who are successful and she said are like what’s the one quality that she saw on all of them? And she would they would the quality was they knew where they were going, which I think really just underscores how important it is to like have an idea of your having destination. So you know I’ve given you your first three levels of destinations after that. It’s up to you.

V Spehar  15:11

So the other thing that I think folks do a lot I know I do myself is you borrow from future you maybe you do love future you but you’re like future me would loan me 50 bucks right now future me would be so generous to me right now. And you’re saying this is a pitfall a lot of folks fall into when their financial planning is not taking care of future them and spending on future them, but rather like borrowing from future them, maybe putting purchases on a credit card, maybe doing more impulse spending upfront, as opposed to kind of investing in where they want to be someday?

Haley Sacks  15:43

Well, but I think a lot of that is emotional, right? Like, it’s, you’re not processing your feelings. And so you’re doing it through money, the same way people do it through eating or drinking or drugs, money falls into that. And I really believe that emotional and physical wellness are the same as financial wellness. And if you don’t have all three, then you’re not balanced. So, you know, if you’re constantly going against your own word, breaking your own trust, you know, and then you got into this cycle, sort of maybe self-hatred, where you’re like, and then you sort of give up on yourself, to me that is rooted in something much more emotional than just understanding how to make a budget. And that’s why a lot of the work that I do with people, especially at the beginning of their financial journeys, is I take them to Ibiza. And Ibiza is actually my five step money mindset program. It is also an island in Spain. But you know, we happen to make things fun here, of course. And so that’s step one. And then once you’re able to, you know, heal those wounds and figure out how you were taught what your parents teach you about money? What are these limiting beliefs that you’re holding on to? Do you actually believe that you are abundant? Do you think that money is for everyone else except for you? Do you think that you just suck with money and identifying like, you know, we talk to our therapists about our ex-boyfriends, new haircut, but we never talked to them about you know, that mom always made us feel like there wasn’t enough food on the table. And that’s really the root of a lot of behavior.

V Spehar  17:22

There’s another thing that you’ve encouraged women to be financially independent. And this is something that my mom did do, she was very much like, we have to have, you know, my grandmother’s as well. They had their own bank accounts. And then they had the family bank accounts. But there was always this lesson instilled in us that you should always have enough to leave if you have to. And all of my family members were in beautiful relationships. This wasn’t like a fear and abuse situation. So I recognize that it’s different, but that you should have the autonomy through financial freedom to be able to make moves if you needed to, for whatever reason. Talk to me about women in financial independence, what keeps them from it?

Haley Sacks  18:00

Well, you know, I think that women were conditioned growing up to think that we are not good with money. And so we abdicate our financial power often, and we say, Oh, you take care of it. That’s not for me, I’ll you know, go do something that’s more suited for my skill set. But here’s the thing is like, no one was born being good with money. So this is all just like we’ve been taught this, but it’s actually not true. Like Warren Buffett didn’t come out of his mother on his birthday, like, knowing what the […] 500 was, like the man […] and, you know, wrap his head around things. So you know, everyone’s got to start from zeros. And but it’s just what time do you start from zero? Is it when you’re really little? Or are you know, older in your life, and now you’re finally coming around from it, and either is fine. The […] part is just a start. But financial freedom for women. So let’s think about it. Money is power. So without money, women don’t have power. And that makes us stay in situations that don’t serve us. This could be abusive relationships. We could be in bad jobs, that it makes us stagnant and doesn’t give us any choice or an agency in our own lives. And so that’s why money is so important for women.

V Spehar  19:21

Another thing that you’ve said, that I appreciate is a lot of us grew up thinking that debt is very bad, and being financially free means that you don’t know any debt at all. But you’ve said that some debt can be a good thing. Can you help me understand that a little bit more?

Haley Sacks  19:36

Yes. So this is very interesting, because in the news, you’ll often see that celebrities are getting mortgages on their houses. Yeah. And so you’re like, why is a dowel who you know, every day, I’m reading headlines about how much she’s making in her Vegas rent residency. Why is she buying a house with a mortgage and then, and what you realize is, it’s not that Adele is like in a pickle, she’s actually really, really financially savvy, because the amount that it will cost her to borrow that money. So say she has I think her, her mortgage was around like 3% or 4%, I’d have to look at the video again to confirm, but it was definitely under 7%. If it is lower than the amount that you could earn by investing that money, then you’re going to turn a profit. So it’s really crazy when you run the numbers, because you realize, like, oh, people are rushing to pay off these loans that are low interest rate. But actually, if you put that money into a very stable run of the mill average investment, like I’m talking about the S&P 500, which has historically returned 8%, you can over time, like a 30 year mortgage, the compounding on that. Not only that, after 30 years will you own the home outright, but you’ll also have a fat sack of cash. So and I obviously we’re not all in positions to do this with our whole with mansions in Los Angeles. But I you know, the student loan crisis is obviously upon us. And so I always encourage people to look at the interest rates on their student loans, because if they are below 7%, which is what we consider to be a low interest rate loan, then you are able to pay the minimum on that and then put whatever money that you had, that you’re planning to put extra towards those student loans, put into the market, and let it grow, instead. So you sort of have to rethink like, what it means to be good with money. Because I again, a lot of people think having no debt equals financial freedom equals I’m killing it, but actually really wealthy people are leveraged, because it’s all a numbers game.

V Spehar  22:00

I mean, that’s how Elon Musk makes a lot of his. He’s not cash rich, necessarily, but he is highly leveraged. And I saw like, you did an explainer on how Beyonce and Jay Z took out like an almost $60 million loan, like why should they have to do that? And you’re saying, because that helps them make more money overall. I mean, we’re looking at Grand examples, but this could be sort of extrapolated down to the average person.

Haley Sacks  22:26

Totally, whether your student loans, and I have on my website financesschool.com/free, I have a free debt payoff planner that will organize your debts for you in terms of interest rates, and then let you know, like which ones are higher, low interest. So this is really important when you’re on your debt payoff journey, because obviously, the high interest rate debt will kill you. It’s horrible. And I, you know, if you are in high interest rate debt, I have a lot of resources for you as well. And I know that it’s very easy to slip into. And by the way, once you’re there, they don’t want you to get out of it. So you do have to fight a little tooth and nail but I have the tools, you can do it, I believe in you. But if it’s not high industry data, if it’s low interest rate, don’t take advantage. Live out loud.

V Spehar  23:13

I’m feeling I’m looking at a whole new world now. I never think about this stuff. So it’s so fun. Are there any pitfalls with money that you still find yourself falling into, even with all of this education just places where you like, Yo, this one still always gets my ass though.

Haley Sacks  23:26

So I automate my finances, which I talk about a lot and my course start here. And it’s really the key to financial success, I would say because willpower is so finite, like, you wake up and you’re like, today, I’m gonna die, and I’m gonna run a marathon, I’m gonna, like, you know, respond to every email, and I’m going to clean my kitchen. And then it’s like 3pm, and you’re like, bloop anyone want to go to McDonald’s. And yeah, you’re like, that lasted maybe 12 minutes. And so if you put your finances into that, you’re never really going to make progress, because you cannot count on your willpower to move yourself along financially. So if I tell you, Okay, every month, I want you to put money manually into your high yield savings account. You might not to me, but you’re never actually going to do it. And I would have never done it either. So automation has been huge. Having that amount that I know is always transferring into investment accounts. And when I was building my emergency fund into there, but back to my own financial woes, because this is about me, obviously. I am moving this month that I had been I had my automated savings deposit to my highest savings account for a very long time for this new apartment, just so that I wouldn’t have financial stress around affording the move or if I needed to get new furniture because it’s a very pricey thing. And so I have more than enough money to put aside for it. I don’t have debt. I am in a good place, financially, all of that but even with that it’s really been stressful for me to like use that money. And to continue to feel abundant, like I really have noticed myself getting stressed out. And there’s nothing to stress about. I’m very fortunate in that way. But, you know, I think that that’s a very old feeling. For me, it’s easy to click back into that. And so I have a lot of like affirmations that I do. And I try and talk to myself in a way that’s really positive, because these are all just narratives. And none of them are true. So which one do I want to hear more, I want to hear the one that’s like, you’re killing it. You’re abundant. There’s enough out there for you and for everyone, you are successful, what you put out in the world as needed. These are all good things to tell yourself. So that yeah, I definitely got like that, too.

V Spehar  25:46

Sure. And I think you said something really important there, which is, there’s enough for me, and for everyone else, there’s not a finite amount, they’re not going to run out of happiness are not going to run out of finances, like there’s enough for all of us. And so I don’t have to compete with myself or other people, I just have to stay focused on my page and what makes sense for me, and let that motivate me, because once we start comparing ourselves to others, it’s just like, added emotional stress that you just can’t.

Haley Sacks  26:11

It’s really hard. The comparison is the thief of joy, whoever said that really, really knew something deep. But yeah, it’s red, it’s easy to see other people. And it even comes with like the spending money on things that we make us look rich, so that we will look rich, like all of this comes from the same place. But I’ve been really trying to disconnect myself from the idea that newness is good. Like, I’m really confused where that started. But I feel like we all sort of fall victim to that. And it’s such a silly thing to get connected to, because it’s ephemeral. newness does not last. So why is it that I’m moving into this new place, and suddenly, I’m like, well, you know, Brooklyn, me needs square plates. And it’s like, Girl, you’ve been eating off round plates all your damn life, you’re fine. Keep the plates you’ve got you know, but suddenly, you see this idea of yourself and it feels like a freshly, and it’s like the same idea with like, a new month or a new year, you’re like, Oh, this is gonna be the change. But really change happens when you least want to do it. Like when you’re when you are like about to buy that thing that you really deserve. Because it’s been really hard. And you’re really stressed out and you don’t. And the feeling of that discipline. And also of like saying focus on your future goals, is so much more rewarding than that feeling of newness, which is going to go away in literally 24 hours.

V Spehar  28:02

We have a couple just questions from the audience.

Haley Sacks  28:04

Oh, great. I would love that.

V Spehar  28:06

Okay, great. So folks are always saying pick up a side gig or monetize your hobbies? That feels like it could take the joy out of it for me? How should I be monetizing all of my hobbies? Or is there value in keeping some for me?

Haley Sacks  28:21

Oh, there’s absolute value and keeping the hobby for you. The moment that you monetize it, it really will change. And you know, what improves your finances the most good mental health? So yeah, this is yeah, if you’re, you’re probably going to get more, you’re going to be in a better place because you have an outlet for your stress. And that maybe means that you’re not, you know impulsively spending or doing these things, then if you were to monetize it to filth, and then put all that stress on yourself, and then what do you know, you need to take eight vacations a year, and you know, have a live in massage therapist, because it’s so much to bear the weight of suddenly your overhead is huge. And you’re not even netting anything. And I also think that in that question, you sort of answered your own question. Because if you really don’t want to do something, you shouldn’t do it. It’s never gonna work out. It has to come from your heart.

V Spehar  29:17

Yeah, we say that all the time, right? Like your happiness has value also. So if it’s something that you just want to keep that makes you happy, don’t let people push you into it, even if they say you should sell your art. Sometimes art is just for you or your friends and family. And that’s okay, too. Next question. I’ve been saving for my child’s future education, but times are getting a little bit tough right now. And I find myself needing to dip into that to just make ends meet. I’m feeling really guilty. What should I do?

Haley Sacks  29:43

Well, are you dipping into the actual investment account because if you’re doing that, then there’s probably fees. But if you’re just decreasing the amount that you’re putting in each month because you’re going through a hard time then that’s okay. Like you know, paying For your child’s education is a gift. But the most important thing to give them is a roof over their head and food on their table and like a loving parent who is not burdened by financial stress. So I think give yourself permission, if you’re in this dire of a situation, to use that money. And obviously, I could tell you to, you know, go get other jobs and this and that, but the being a parent is a really big job in itself, I don’t think that you need to burden yourself with more stress, just keep doing the best that you can. And the great thing is that with compound interest, whatever is in that account already is going to grow a lot. So get yourself back on your feet. And the moment that you can increase your contributions. But in the meantime, cut yourself some slack.

V Spehar  30:48

I’m considering cashing out my 401K to buy a new car. Is that a good idea? I love that question, though. I love that quote. Because we all look at that money and go like, okay, I need a car, maybe I should borrow against my future self. But just like at the beginning of the podcast, we talked about loving future us and providing for future us. What are the risks of cashing out your 401K for anything?

Haley Sacks  31:13

Well, so the big thing is that you’re gonna pay fees. So it’s not great. But also like, I don’t love the idea that you’re getting a new car, like, we gotta be getting like a used car.

V Spehar  31:24

And it might mean used car, it might be new to them new to

Haley Sacks  31:27

them. Okay. So yeah, I would really prefer that you didn’t do that. Because I you know, that money, let that money grow for future you exactly. And find other ways to create income so that you can pay for that new used car. But also, like, I know that we’re in a really hard time economically and like if you need that car to go to work, and there’s no other way to make money besides to go in there, then like, guess what, emergency situations call for emergency moves. But I would just make sure that there were no other options on the table before I took that route. Because you are losing money. That’s not it’s not the amount of money in there is not just like, you’re gonna be able to take that out and it’s yours. It’s like, you’re gonna lose a lot of it in the process, because the government doesn’t want you to take it out. So it’s actually more expensive.

V Spehar  32:22

Yeah, there’s good money, and then there’s expensive money, right?

Haley Sacks  32:25

It’s a very expensive money.

V Spehar  32:27

Next question, my daughter is really interested in the stock market and money. It’s not something I know a ton about, is there finance for kids? Or is there anything she could be doing? Now, I really want her to learn more about this thing she cares so much about, but I’m not the person who can help her.

Haley Sacks  32:43

I actually have a YouTube video called How To Grow generational wealth, and that teaches like parents how to do it. But then if you, if you go to the description of that video, there is a free resource that you can get access to, that has all the ways that I have found that are really helpful to teach your kids about money. So there’s games, there’s books, all of that. But I would say the biggest thing, really, with money with kids is like setting a good example. So you know, maybe there’s a way for you guys to learn about it together. Because I feel like any fear or intimidation that you have around, this is gonna rub off and you want to instead make her feel confident in this endeavor. And it may could bring you guys closer together. But definitely look at those resources. They’re great. It’s I really scan the market and found the best ways to teach your kids about money, and it’s completely free. So go to that video and you will find the answer.

V Spehar  33:44

My fiancé and I just got engaged. We haven’t had any discussions about money management, or how we want to spend our money or how we want to invest our money yet, and I’m a little intimidated about bringing the topic up with him. While we’re planning the wedding of our dreams. Do you have any tips for how to approach a partner for an initial discussion about money?

Haley Sacks  34:02

Okay, first of all, love that you are that this is a question because I need you guys to talk about money before you walk down the aisle. And I think that the best way to do it is to check your own attitude, first and foremost, because it’s actually a big red flag if someone won’t talk to you about money and if they’re making you feel weird about asking them. And so I think that if you bring in a very cool, calm collected, sort of, of course, this is what we’re talking about, like duh, attitude, then I that will help the conversation go quite smoothly. I’ve seen that work very well for followers of Mine. And so I always tell people, and then I also think that it’s important to keep your side of the street clean and when you’re coming into that conversation. Before you do get your own shit together. You need to know what’s up with your finances. What’s your net worth? What do you want like Do some work. And then also, you don’t know that they are confident in doing that investigation by themselves. And so why not plan a date night around money if they maybe are not someone who like help them get to the place where they are able to understand their finances, because they might be embarrassed? If they’re not, then they don’t want to seem like someone that you don’t want to marry. And so I, you know, just be understanding and kind of as long as the conversation is vulnerable, and not aggressive, or yeah, like shameful or anything, then I think you’re in a good relationship. But the moment that it switches there, that’s a big red flag.

V Spehar  35:40

What are some things couples should be thinking about before they get married when it comes to finances?

Haley Sacks  35:45

Well, I think a big thing is like your future goals? For sure. Like, do you want to have kids? When do you want to retire? Things like that? So is there such big expenses. And then I also think that couples really need to understand like, how they need to plan around their finances, because here’s the thing, there’s not one right way. It’s not like I can tell you, you should have a joint bank account, they should have separate accounts, although I like that method. But it might be that it works better for you to have totally separate accounts. But I just want to make sure that you always have an account on the side, your runaway money, just in case, and that you are financially open with your partner, because like I said, emotional and physical wellness, financial wellness is right up there with it. So if this is someone that you’re sleeping with, and you’re like telling your deepest, darkest secrets to that money should be there too. He shouldn’t have anything off limits to someone that you’re starting a life with.

V Spehar  36:43

What’s your advice for someone who’s coming into a relationship with debt and someone who doesn’t have debt? How are they supposed to manage that going forward?

Haley Sacks  36:52

Well, okay, so it’s really important with debt to understand I, if you marry someone in a common property state with debt, then even if the debt incurred before you’re married, you could be responsible for it. So it’s really important to understand someone’s financial situation their debt before you sign anything, do not cosign a lease, do not cosign a marriage agreement. Do not do any of that until you have a full understanding of their picture and then protect yourself get a damn prenup because guess what, the person that you marry is not the same person you divorce. So it’s gonna be the sweetest person best love you forever. But then the moment that you know, the tables turn, they’re different. So again, future you because guess what a prenup is not. It’s like health insurance. You don’t get health insurance, thinking, hey, I really want to get sick of getting this because I’m praying I get sick. No, you’re getting it in case you got sick. It’s your lifeline. And prenups or marriage insurance? It’s not because you’re hoping you got divorced. But it’s because if it does happen, you need to have your own back.

V Spehar  37:59

I love that. Where can folks find you?

Haley Sacks  38:03

Mrs. Dow Jones. But also it’s quite easy to find me if you just go to financeiscool.com.

V Spehar  38:14

It’s been super cool. Is there anything that I didn’t ask that you want people to know about that could help them on their financial journey?

Haley Sacks  38:22

Well, I would love to do a discount code for my courses. Because if I feel like you know people are listening to this probably are just getting their toes wet with their finances. Maybe they’re leaving this episode feeling inspired, feeling like they can do it, but they don’t know what that first step is. And I really feel like the first step is a visa Of course, which is my free money mindset program, which you can find on financeisschool.com/free. But then it is investing in your financial literacy and figuring out a system that you can use month after a month to look at your finances to have that money deed around and to really move towards your financial goals. Because it takes time, it took me a long time to hit my 50-30-20 budget, it’s not going to happen overnight. But with consistency with automated deposits and with those money dates, you can totally do it and also a community. So we will do 15% off for what should we make the code has to be cool and fun.

V Spehar  39:24

V INTERESTING is typically the code.

V Spehar  39:38

You know, I really appreciate so much when we get a guest on here that can help us learn something but can also help us feel something. And Mrs. Dow Jones certainly gave us a lot to think about and Allah to check in with ourselves about when it comes to money. Turns out money’s not bad. It doesn’t even have to be scary, right? So let’s be rich together in all of the ways. Thank you again to flourish ventures for me Making this conversation possible. And again, that promo code is v interesting at financeiscool.com Be sure to tune into next week’s episode where we dig into the headlines you may have missed. Leave us a five star rating for the show. Wherever you are listening. It really does help people find us. Follow me at under the desk news on Tik Tok, Instagram and YouTube and guess what friends? There is even more be interesting with Lemonada Premium. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like my conversation with Gina Platt amino from the Food Research Action Center. She tells us about food shortages and why 2023 was the year of expensive eggs. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts.

CREDITS  40:45

V INTERESTING is a Lemonada Media Original. Our producers are Rachel Neel, Xorje Olivares, Martín Macías, Jr. And Dani Matias. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Mixing and Scoring is by Brian Castillo, Johnny Evans and Ivan Kuraev. music is by Seth Applebaum. Please help others find the show by rating and reviewing wherever you listen and follow us across all social platforms at @VitusSpehar and @UnderTheDeskNews, also, @LemonadaMedia. If you want more be interesting, subscribe to Lemonada premium only on Apple podcasts.