Calling all Potential New Members! Get your social resumes ready, ‘cuz this week we’re going back to ‘Bama Rush, baby. We speak to a sorority consultant about the price of fitting in and the pitfalls of social spending. Wanting to get into a sorority is one thing, but can you keep it up? We also talk to two former sorority treasurers about the massive budgets they had to manage and the pressure to make complex financial decisions before they could legally drink at a bar.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Pat Grant, Shelby, X Mayo, Kristen Meinzer, L

Pat Grant  00:09

It’s gotten pretty intense, it’s very competitive, and Alabama, for instance, has the largest recruitment in the country and has for years. I would think in the last 10 years. It’s more than doubled. Word of mouth is how I get a lot of my clients because I am very private and agile, their pledge they don’t even have to lie they know me. My husband tells me the DLS the dirty little secret.

 

X Mayo  03:00

That was Pat freakin grant. And she owns Rushbiddies, a consulting business based in Birmingham, Alabama, that helps girls navigate sorority recruitment. And Pat, I don’t think it’s a dirty little secret anymore, honey is open. Kind of like every marriage in Los Angeles. With the popularity of the hashtag Bamarush Tiktok trend and the Netflix documentary, Rush Consulting has exploded and according to Pat, the business is in high demand. So Pat here provides these young people with a kind of discreet certainty. She comes in at a time of transition that is so full of confusion, and literally tells them what clothes to buy, what topics to avoid and how to make it pass the toughest critics ever young white girls. What Pat is providing is truly captivating a built in guaranteed lifelong friend group. I mean, it makes sense. Think about all the cash you’ve spent trying to be a part of something. I see you softball league people, okay, Country Club members, comedians dropping 3k on improv classes just so you got somebody to go out for drinks with. We all want to be where we’re meant to be. And rushing a sorority is one hella expensive way to do that. Hey, boo, hey, I’m your host X Mayo and you’re listening to The Dough. And this week, we’re talking about the crazy subculture of sororities, from rushing to the managing of all their funds. We’re letting you in on what it costs to be a part of it all. Before the girls get in, they’ve got to transform themselves and that’s where the expertise of Rush consultant Pat Grant comes in. Pat is a bonafide expert with clients spanning the US and your customer base is huge. There are over 9 million alumni and almost a million active fraternity and sorority members. That is a lot of people to impress bait.

 

Pat Grant  05:01

I’ve had basically girls from every state in the Union Plus, Alaska. I’ve had Miami, Florida, University of Washington, lots of California girl right now I have UCLA and USC, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Florida State Ole Miss for sure. Mississippi State an Auburn Of course, Alabama, Tennessee, NYU, North Carolina, University of North Carolina, North Carolina. Stay Cornell, Virginia, of course, Illinois. I’ve had Harvard.

 

X Mayo  05:31

Whatever say you’re from, shelling out some serious cash for the wrong motives like Cloud chasing or exclusivity can be a tricky little double edged sword. And it’s so damn tempting.

 

Pat Grant  05:44

They’re sort of that wanting to belong, you just have to find where you fit. And maybe that house that’s competitive and has all the good grades and the beauty queens and the cheerleaders and all that, that may be producing you want, but are you willing to wake up every day and compete with your sisters?

 

X Mayo  06:01

Damn, Pat, that’s code. Y’all. This woman is like a sorority doula. Honestly, you guys, she is a whole vibe. Her business is all about knowing the exact moves to make for success. And she’s got the whole process nailed down to a tee.

 

Pat Grant  06:16

My typical client is an upcoming senior in high school. I help them market themselves and that means making sure you have the right photos. Make sure you have a social resume, which is different from an academic resume, or just a word resume. I call it the brag sheet. The brag sheet, basically, is helping them navigate where their weaknesses are.

 

X Mayo  06:39

Oh, I want to play, okay,  let’s do it. Top of the list on my brag sheet. I was class president of my fifth grade class and it was a tough race. And my weakness is Mr. Clean guys look at he’s so high and he’s so employed. We love however, and 2023 things are a little bit different for your typical 17 year old with the surge of parasocial relationships online, which are basically imaginary friends for adults. Forging real life connections has become even more crucial. As you probably know, you judgy as bitches, people tend to form opinions quickly, often within seconds of meeting someone. Fortunately, Pat is there to help them with that first impression.

 

Pat Grant  07:21

I get some prepared as far as wardrobe expectations, what’s expected for recruitment week? And basically, what they need to work on as far as how’s their body language? How’s their conversational skills? And that is something that this generation seems to have a real hard time with is small talk.

 

X Mayo  07:40

Wait a minute, Pat, are you saying it’s make over time? Oh, that’s right. All truly great movies start with the makeover Okay, let’s list them clueless check. Whitney Houston and Brandi Cinderella check Princess Diaries check. Face Off check and check why these are not in the Criterion Collection is beyond me, honey. Pat is essentially a sorority recruitment Fairy Godmother at the wave of a wand she turns a 2006 Ford Focus into a pink Jeep, your she and tapped into Gucci and your social anxiety into superb conversational skills. Nobody needs to know about that weird pimple on your inner thigh. Tinsley Calm down, listen to Pat and she’ll tell you exactly how to spin your rush cache. Like maybe on some new photos.

 

Pat Grant  08:27

You want at least two good poses per house. I used to say a headshot and a three quarter to full body shot.

 

X Mayo  08:34

And these are not your typical little selfies Okay, these are profesh.

 

Pat Grant  08:38

Three for 100 maybe if you get them in print.

 

X Mayo  08:44

And remember Pat’s a professional for hire too. So how much does it actually cost to have her as your fairy godmother?

 

Pat Grant  08:53

Use $1,000 or more? My 40 hour package deal includes everything. Easy access to me text message me during recruitment week. Basically do not sleep for any campus, just because I’m on call. I’ve had girls call me at one o’clock in the morning. I mean, that kind of thing. Just kind of panicking.

 

X Mayo  09:13

And don’t forget about those outfits. The gowns we’re discussing at the top of this episode. Yeah, those will cause you too.

 

Pat Grant  09:19

Also want for them to look at all the Instagrams of all the sororities so they can see how the girls are dressing, see what the ambiance is as far as like, what’s expected sort of thing, just to be on the safe side 800 to $1,000 just for clothing and shoes, accessories. I think you would want to make sure you have a nice little budget there.

 

X Mayo  09:41

Okay, so between outfit photos, 40 hour package, let’s round it up and just call it three grand for Pat’s full service package. So even though Pat says she only suggest spending around, you know, just $1,000 on clothes, if you indeed follow her advice, which is to look on instagram for inspo the message you’ll be receiving is loud and clear. Spend money to fit in. The Cartier bracelet alone, one of the women of top mentioned can run you over $7,000. We’ve seen girls spend over 22k on a single outfit. This doesn’t even include the at home spray tans, waxing, Manny Petty’s blow out some of them have professional glam squad that literally do their makeup every morning. Okay, somebody’s coming in that image every morning to contour do all of that, the week of Rush, so maybe just maybe, Pat, girl, your assessment is a little wrong. Okay. Of course, every school is different. So Pat keeps these ladies in check when navigating the pressure of social spending.

 

Pat Grant  10:49

Some campuses are a little more fashionista than others. So you kind of have to know how to play I call it the name game where you know what brands to look for. But at the same time, you don’t want to over brand yourself with all these different designer labels. Because it looks like you’re trying too hard.

 

X Mayo  11:07

Trying too hard as a capital L lesson on social spending people, you have to ask yourself, why do I want this? Is it to prove my worth to others? And if the answer is yes, put the credit card back in the wallet honey and walk slowly out of the product store and take some time to really figure out what your priorities are. Pat has a very specific way of looking at it.

 

Pat Grant  11:32

And sometimes they’d have to kind of readjust where they think they need to be versus where they should be. Because they’re girls that will go for a house that’s just so not them. Just not them at all. But they slap the slit glamorous type. And and you’ve got this sweet little girl next door that’s just she’s gonna be eaten alive.

 

X Mayo  11:55

Honey saved the 3k you can get eaten alive for free at any lake in Florida. So with all these expenses in mind, we had to ask Miss Pat, is the cost of rushing really worth it?

 

Pat Grant  12:08

Yes, I do think all of the effort of going through and pledging a sorority is worth it. Plus, I think if you’re savvy you understand that your trajectory of being a part of sorority in those four years of college can have an influence on your professional career. That sort of like that nepotism Ryan’s kind of thing.

 

X Mayo  12:27

Hey, patch, hush. What do you mean nepotism reigns? Didn’t you read the New York mag Expo? Zeo Nepo babies keep that shit on the low low. Sounds like Pat is all in on Greek life and honestly, we don’t totally disagree here at The Dough. sororities are a big deal in people’s lives. And not all of them come with a hefty price tag. In fact, lots of them place a ton of emphasis on philanthropy and community service, not to mention the cultural significance of Greek life on historically black campuses. So yes, sororities are amazing tools for connection but unlike nipple babies, you are not set for life just because you are a part of them. If you have to pay to fit in, you’re gonna have to pay to stay here. But what happens once these ladies actually join the sorority? What is the price of day to day life and who’s securing the bag then? We’re about to hear from two girls who were the elected treasurer’s of their sororities. And based on the amount of money they manage, they could probably run the federal fucking reserve before they can legally drink alcohol. More after the break.

 

X Mayo  17:41

Welcome back to The Dough ya’ll. So now you know the price of rushing you Cillian Okay, cool. Now let’s talk about what this shit is gonna cost you once you join. Oh, you thought that was it? Oh no baby, you got more money to spend.

 

L  18:24

So before that, as I worked all throughout high school, I think the most amount of money I ever handled was a few $1,000.

 

X Mayo  18:31

L was a sophomore in college at a big SEC school in the south when she was elected as VP of Finance for her sorority. AKA she was balancing that budget and y’all this budget. Honey brought a tank.

 

L  18:44

It was about a million dollars with both semesters

 

X Mayo  18:50

Her sororities annual budget, okay, X calm down because people have to listen harsh sororities annual budget is $1 million. I repeat $1 million. Can you imagine just sitting there taking advanced spreadsheet techniques with $25 in your personal bank account, while simultaneously handling $1 million dollars impacting the lives of your 300 sorority sisters like girl? How are you gonna seduce your cute ass ta with all that pressure on your shoulders.

 

L  19:20

I knew how much our dues were and everything like that but I just didn’t put it together that the chapter had access of a million dollars, which was absolutely insane. Because I’m in college.

 

X Mayo  19:33

You can say that again, good job L. So let’s break down all these things that make up this 1 million budget, starting with dues. dues are a payment girls have to make each semester to be a part of the sorority, like where you make a monthly payment to be a part of the gym, but you only use this smoothie in Asana. And don’t judge me okay, at least I’m going.

 

L  19:54

For each semester of dues. We pay a pretty hefty amount to it’s about About 1100 a semester.

 

X Mayo  20:02

So get this $1,100 per semester actually falls on the lower end of the scale, these little motherfuckers are paying mortgages every semester, for example, at the University of Alabama dues are nearly 5000 a semester, then there are places like Ball State University right? dues are only like 800. Now if you’re like, well, x, what the fuck, I can’t even pay 800, when we pay 5000. Don’t you worry Tanisha Smuckers and I know she’s listening. Most sororities tell you the financial expectations during rush so that you know what you’re getting into. Plus, there are tons of scholarships and payment programs if costs are out of your budget. I know these numbers sound like a lot, but according to L, they go towards a lot of different types of things.

 

L  20:51

For each semester of dues 600, around a bit goes to the chapter directly that we can use for philanthropy events, social events, or just anything that we need to keep the chapter running and have events throughout the year. And then the rest of the $500 goes to our national sorority.

 

X Mayo  21:09

For us please outside of the sorority world, let’s define a couple of things , okay nationals, these are the overlords. They are the adults in charge in some faraway place and the sorority goes have to pay them each semester to help keep things running. Okay, next term, philanthropy. That’s just what rich people call volunteering. And when she says things to keep the chapter running, it basically means fees to upkeep their big ass house and all the things that come with it.

 

L  21:35

Which includes rent and includes parking includes the chef for three meals a day, and housekeeping that comes every day as well.

 

X Mayo  21:45

By the way, if you want to live in that house, that’s an additional 6000 a semester on top of your dues. Anyway, when she says academic resources that’s like tutors and shit. And then it’s a social events. Let’s talk about some of these social events.

 

L  22:01

We’re going to make flower bouquets or we’re going to have a go yoga just like random fun little this.

 

X Mayo  22:07

Wait, go yoga, I just basically want to tell you that they have these big ass events to like form mold. They were not a huge space. But when some food trucks and get a party bus to drive them, they’re actually what is the formal as opposed to a casual, aka me in my underwear in Hot Cheetos in front of the TV.

 

L  22:27

Think middle school dance, you just kind of go for the pictures and you’re like, okay, cool.

 

X Mayo  22:31

Formal is the biggest event of the year L’s sorority spent 12,000 on her formal, a sorority Alabama spend as much as 80,000 on theirs. For some middle school dance pitches. No, thank you. So yeah, that’s a lot of finances to keep track of and all of that budget balancing started to weigh on L because a sorority is divided into committees and each committee relied on L to give them their individual budget.

 

L  23:00

For the first semester, it was like really hard to juggle that with school and doing all of our council duties a second semester, we like had a meeting where like, we really need to set boundaries of being like, okay, y’all, please don’t text us at 2am. Because I would get texts from people at 2am and be like, Oh my gosh, like I can’t deal with this right now.

 

X Mayo  23:21

That only was communicating to her sister’s hard because setting boundaries with your friends at a young age can be challenging. But L had to be meticulous about spending and tracking.

 

L  23:31

So it’s like scary, you’re like you can really mess that up. But if you do go over that, then there’s really serious consequences.

 

X Mayo  23:37

And if you mess up, guess who comes knocking on your door?

 

Shelby  23:43

Nationals was a little upset with our chapter.

 

X Mayo  23:47

This is Shelby, another treasurer we talked to. She’s in a service based sorority. So instead of goat yoga, they get together to focus entirely on philanthropy. Wow, shout outs to her. What was the last time you did something for the greater good. And donating to your friend’s honeymoon in Bali doesn’t count. Okay, taken all that time to go over there just to ride an elephant wasting my money. But even though they had a great mission, their finances weren’t exactly on point. Shelby walked into a major clusterfuck.

 

Shelby  24:20

So I kind of got handed the title in the midst of a mess. I took over from a girl who didn’t know a lot about money. She didn’t have a credit card. So she she didn’t pay their own bills. She she didn’t really keep records well, and she kind of spent money on things that weren’t really supposed to be spent on.

 

X Mayo  24:40

So here is Shelby so excited that she’s been nominated into this position. And then she gets a read of the situation and she’s like, Oh, shit, okay, bit of a dumpster fire here. But it’s all good because I got support, right? I’m in a sorority. That’s why this rolls. Okay. Remember, there’s a big organization called nationals, the one that every chapter has to pay. They are the overarching chapter for all the chapters nationwide.

 

Shelby  25:09

Every sorority even like the social ones have like a national board. And they are like hired like that’s their real job is to keep all of the different chapters of a sorority running.

 

X Mayo  25:21

That’s right. Nationals job is to keep every chapter afloat. That includes offering day to day support for all sorority leadership, aka the presidents and treasurer’s with anything they may need. It’s supposed to be like mommy and daddy take care of baby. But in this case, they’d be asked to go get the bacon, bring it home and cook it.

 

Shelby  25:42

Nationals didn’t have like a meeting where they said, like, hey, treasurer’s jump on this meeting, and we’ll tell you how to do all of this. There was no guidance. It was kind of like, here’s a bank account with $25,000 in it, you figure it out.

 

X Mayo  25:58

If this is not a metaphor for all first time, money escapades, I don’t know what the hell is student loans, you figure it out credit cards, you figure that out too, health insurance, figure it the fuck out, baby, perform your own Pap smear, period, do what you got to do. We all out here just signing up for these big financial investments without even knowing the consequences of them. But for Shelby the most frustrating part was that she was a part of a whole institution where she should have help. I mean, isn’t that the kind of the whole point? Isn’t that what you’re paying all this money for in the first goddamn place? Okay, So problem number one that Shelby had to address from the old treasurer, the lack of tracking.

 

Shelby  26:39

I had to go back through every single purchase of the last year, and identify what it was spent on why it was spent.

 

X Mayo  26:47

So this treasurer that came before Shelby, she just did what the treasurer before her did. She used a little app called Venmo. For all sororities, transactions, and we all know how Venmo works. No one ever writes dinner or rent unless you’re a murderer. In the memos, people just send you seven octopus emojis and call it a day, right? So when the school year ended, and the former treasurer was bye girl, no one knew what the hell she actually spent the money on.

 

Shelby  27:16

And I wasn’t close with that treasurer. So it wasn’t easy for me to go back and be like, Hey, can you explain what this purchase was? Because she graduated. So she was gone. She didn’t care anymore.

 

X Mayo  27:29

So Shelby is looking at every single purchase from the last year trying to figure out what it’s for.

 

Shelby  27:35

So I feel like it kind of put me behind in school because instead of learning how all my classes work, learning my teacher styles, learning all that kind of stuff early in the year, I spent it with my best friend, the president of my sorority that year, we sat together on my couch for ever going through like all these purchases, putting a reason on it.

 

X Mayo  27:55

So while everyone else was drinking their pumpkin spice Gatorade, literally doing the actual learning they are there for Shelby is crunching numbers and decoding emojis. She’s missing out not only on her actual college classes, but also on the prime beginning of the semester social vibes. Meanwhile, nationals is like, help you figuring that mess out girl. By the way, when you finish and get to this year’s budget, no more Venmo. Thanks. I mean, y’all, this girl cannot get a break.

 

Shelby  28:24

Then I had to like redo the entire way that we logged all of our purchases because Venmo got taken away, which is how we have done it pretty much since the sorority had started. And it was just a mess. I had to figure out like online purchases and how to get girls to be able to like enter their credit card into the system. And I found myself on the phone with nationals all the time trying to set up these accounts.

 

X Mayo  28:51

And here’s the thing, on top of nationals being no help, not even a little bit with the budget itself. There was some residual tension from the year before because the former treasurer had not only been bad at tracking, she’d overspent. And that was a big no, no.

 

Shelby  29:08

Yeah, that’s one of the reasons that nationals was upset when I had first taken over is because it was higher when that girl had gotten it. And she went into what they call it a deficit. And they didn’t like ever want to see the number drop.

 

X Mayo  29:26

When Shelby says it, she’s talking about the cash cash in their bank account. Like each treasure we’re coming into that position. She’s giving access to a bank account of $25,000 Just like the 1 million for L and by the time the semester ends, nationals want to see the bank account back at the initial number. So treasurer’s have to figure out how much they’re going to charge for dues each semester to cover their programming housing and all the other shit we’ve talked about. And since Shelby’s predecessor let the budget fall below 25k nationals was on their case.

 

Shelby  30:01

My executive board that I served with last year, got into like an email fight with nationals. And they like called us out and said that we were like, horrible at our jobs. So they were like, nasty. They were like adult women being nasty. Because we weren’t doing it right. We’re just confused. Like, we don’t know what you want. And they weren’t helpful at all, let alone nice about it.

 

X Mayo  30:30

At this point Shelby decides, okay, I’m not getting enough support from these adult as women. Despite this being their literal job. It’s like asking your aunties for love advice, and they just tell you to add sugar a sec, I’d say I’m not making no damn pancake. But she was like, you know what, it’s fine it’s good. Everything’s fine, I’m gonna take this into my own hands, get us out of this deficit and create a system that makes sense. And we’re gonna find out how she did that after this break.

 

X Mayo  34:35

Okay, y’all we are back and Shelby has found a solution. You know what she did? Shelby dug around like a character on SVU and went back to our favorite friend to hate Google Drive. She found her answer from an old sorority sister hallelujah. This support finally came through.

 

Shelby  34:54

Thankfully a couple of treasures back and was a finance major and she was really really good. So I went back on that account through all the docs and found like her budget from like, it was before COVID so like things were super different. But I kind of use that as a loose baseline, I estimated what we would need for service projects and recruitment and bid day and random things that I didn’t even know were going to come up.

 

X Mayo  35:20

And she made the call about annual dues.

 

Shelby  35:23

I just went with the number that they had done the previous year, it was $125 per girl per semester. And then I kind of threw that all into a budget and decided that we have like 65 Sisters, I think so 65 times 125. And then I just divvied that up between all these different like service and sisterhood and leadership and these different things that we do.

 

X Mayo  35:51

Sometimes you got to just make a decision and hope for the best. Shelby wasn’t getting answers from nationals, or from the treasurer before her. That girl was gone. So what does Shelby do? She just kept looking for help. She found another person to be her guiding money mentor in this process. Even if her mentor was just some Google docs in the cloud. Shelby made it work. Nationals got off her back and the balance was restored. And she managed to tune out all of the distractions from her sisters along the way.

 

Shelby  36:21

The biggest thing I learned that just like shocked the shit out of me is that young people, they just have no idea how money works. And the amount of time someone would ask me to just like swipe the card for like a Starbucks. And I’m like, that’s not what this money is for.

 

X Mayo  36:36

No, Suzy, I’m not buying you a flat white Caramel Macchiato. Here’s where Shelby was at an advantage. She came into college knowing a thing or two about money because of her parents.

 

Shelby  36:47

Had to work for all of my money. And I had to pay for half of my car. My parents like split it with me. So like, I’ve never really been, like, just gifted really huge things before. And so like money’s always had value to me. I don’t know any of my friends who have bought their own car.

 

X Mayo  37:07

My first car was named Anastasia, and only opened on the driver’s side and I didn’t even get a vehicle until I was 26. So like me, Shelby actually went to college understanding the value of $1. Okay, and that in itself is a privilege. That wasn’t always the case for her sister’s L are million dollar treasurer saw the same discrepancies in her own sorority too.

 

L  37:31

I don’t think a lot of people did kind of understand the value of the dollar.

 

X Mayo  37:35

L does though. Because our girl is a boss bitch in the making. Remember, she’s in business school, y’all, that really helped her make decisions about her sororities budget, and it helped with her communication. L decided to set expectations really early with her sisters. She was like, listen, I gotta go buy a book, the call to everything, and I can’t buy your stuff with this credit card. I’m too young to be a sugar daddy. So don’t even try to shoot with me. And it worked.

 

L  38:03

Because so many problems and issues can be solved just by good communication from the beginning. But I think I definitely learned a lot about how to really effectively get your point across because money is a big issue, and everyone is in a different position with it. So being able to handle that in a way that’s respectful of everyone was the biggest thing that I think I learned.

 

X Mayo  38:28

Yes, L money is a big issue. And we’ve dug into a few really fucking crucial issues today, haven’t we? That double dose of societal pressure plus the lack of financial knowledge. It’s a recipe for disaster and I’m talking fire fest. So while you are still learning, consider finding a money mentor someone you trust who can offer guidance. Like for me, it’s literally a genius stripper on YouTube named Christina for Shelby it was the ghost of treasurer’s past. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel there is always somebody around you can ask these mentors are especially important because let’s face it, the world is full of fools, just like nationals, institutions that are supposed to be there for you, but actually make it harder to do your job. So you have to decide, am I going to be the kind of person that ask questions and figure shit out no matter what. Also, sidenote, y’all it’s okay not to have it all figured out even in a world that expects you to, there is no one fits all approach when it comes to learning about money. So if you’re out there feeling confused know that you are not alone. We all feel it honey, just yesterday. You guys okay, confession. I bought a lawn mower. I don’t even have a lawn. You guys. I was just stressed. But you know what, that doesn’t define me. Okay, because Alon is coming to me. Well, that’s what a wellness lady told me. What defines me and us is our ability to ask for help learn and take control. Wow, look at us making our own little textbook who would have thought? Not me? Next week on The Dough, we have an incredible fucked up story about lending money to friends and everything going wrong despite your best intentions.

 

Kristen Meinzer  40:20

I just felt like, who was I to think I could be a hero in this story. Because I’m not a hero. I’m just a person. And they’re just people too, all of us we’re just idiots here, but I was the biggest idiot of all because I was left holding the bag,

 

CREDITS 40:33

Baby it’s so juicy is dripping. See you next week. There’s more of The Dough with Lemonada premium baby subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like tips from financial therapist Amanda Clayman on how to glow up with credit cards. Okay, girl, just go right now. Subscribe now on Apple podcast. The Dough is a Lemonada  original. I’m your host X Mayo. This series was created in partnership with flourish ventures. This episode was produced by no other than Claire Jones and Ohio Lopez. Tony Williams is our associate producer. Kristen Laporte is our senior producer. Mix in sound designed by Andy Kristen’s daughter with additional mixing and engineering from Ivan cariah. Original Music by Pat mesiti Miller. Kelsey Henderson is our production intern. Additional production help from Becca De Gregorio and Jerusalem truth. Jackie Danziger is our Vice President of narrative content. Executive Producers include me ex smile, Stephen Stephanie littles wax and Jessica Cordova Cramer. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating five stars and writing a review. You can follow me on IG at $80 in a suitcase and limonada at limonada media across all social platforms, not including MySpace. Follow the dough wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week bye.