Lifeberg Straight Ahead

Subscribe to Lemonada Premium for Bonus Content

June is back from Europe, and can confirm the itinerary was a work of art. Jess searches for signs from loved ones who’ve passed and finds them. Also, dogs are made of love, and worth a new couch sometimes.



Jessica St. Clair, June Diane Raphael

Jessica St. Clair  02:16

Hi, I’m Jessica St. Clair.


June Diane Raphael  02:18

And I’m June Diane Raphael.


Jessica St. Clair  02:20

And this is The Deep Dive. We’re about to do what women have done for centuries we’re crowding around the fire with our generous hunches. We got babies hanging off our tits and we’re gonna share with you our fears.


June Diane Raphael  02:33

That’s right.


Jessica St. Clair  02:34

Our joys, our tips on how to stay alive.


June Diane Raphael  02:38

Now Jess, we’re heating a call that no one has made.


Jessica St. Clair  02:42

Not a soul but you’re invited to listen, absolutely because we make one promise and one promise only we will not Google a thing because frankly we’re too damn tired please get ready to go on The Deep Dive.


June Diane Raphael  03:03

Hi Jessica.


Jessica St. Clair  03:04

God dammit June,


June Diane Raphael  03:11



Jessica St. Clair  03:12

Oh God, June.


June Diane Raphael  03:13

Jessica, I for you. I’m 10 minutes late, I’m 12 minutes late now and I told you like I just need an extra 10 minutes please. And then I’m showing up with my hair wet and in a towel turban and I just have to tell you the reason why is because I think we talked about being late like I had an acting teacher who always said if you’re late.


Jessica St. Clair  03:36

To class, walk in, don’t make a face don’t pull any more of our focus.


June Diane Raphael  03:45



Jessica St. Clair  03:45

Walk in sit the fuck down, and get quiet, instead of doing the whole rigmarole of I was this so is this happening? Who cares? Shut up you’ve already done the damage is done now sit now you just sit.


June Diane Raphael  04:00

Right, so I’m sorry to do this but I do have to explain that I had played tennis this morning early and then had to do most of my day you know out and about in a wet sweaty tennis outfit because it did not schedule my day properly.


Jessica St. Clair  04:16

Yeah, that’s a yeast infection waiting to have.


June Diane Raphael  04:18

Okay, so I was like I have three minutes in which I can take a shower and I know Jess, is going to be waiting but I genuinely are will get sick.


Jessica St. Clair  04:30

It’s always okay. I’m a safe space to land especially when it comes to being 10 minutes late although I have been really working my ass off right but that’s I mean my no you as I know.


June Diane Raphael  04:44

Yes, I don’t know you as lead anymore. That’s yesterday’s news.


Jessica St. Clair  04:48

I know that that’s that’s homework. That’s my that’s my sole work where I feel like you graduated. Thanks. Um, maybe on that front but on every other […] God damn it, I have so much to speak about.


June Diane Raphael  04:50

I have so much to tell you.


Jessica St. Clair  05:08

I know.


June Diane Raphael  05:09

We need to record separately to just both get our info like if this.


Jessica St. Clair  05:15

This may be a three parter.


June Diane Raphael  05:17



Jessica St. Clair  05:18

This may be a three part, this might be a mini series. Let’s maybe an eight parter, I don’t know. We’ve lived in two weeks, a lifetime, on different continents, different oceans. And we’ve had we’ve grown and we’ve changed and we’ve opened and we’ve closed. And we are, we’re washing up on the shore, much like Moana does, you know, covered in sand and, and just sort of having trying to put the pieces together. Do you want to go first?


June Diane Raphael  05:54

I don’t know what to say, even like for me, I’m, I’m you know, it’s two yeah, like two weeks of spring break. I went on tour with one of the skip made, did a whole went to Paris, it was amazing. And I as I texted you the other day, like my transition back has been challenging. It’s been challenging.


Jessica St. Clair  06:18

Well, here’s the thing about the transition back is it makes you question should I ever leave my home? Ever again?


June Diane Raphael  06:25

It’s so funny is when we arrived in Paris, I was like. Because I actually have I don’t know if you feel this way, as I get older I’m starting to have more traveling anxiety like an old lady.


Jessica St. Clair  06:34



June Diane Raphael  06:35

I would say never used to have and now I’m like, I’m like looking at pictures of the hotel and I’m anxious. I’m like, yes. I’m anxious, to travel.


Jessica St. Clair  06:45

Like, I feel out of sorts. Like I heard an old woman sitting next to me at a cafe. The father style goes Palm Springs. And I’d love to go to Europe, but the father still goes Palm Springs.


June Diane Raphael  06:59

I understand, so I but actually, when we arrived, it all went away.


Jessica St. Clair  07:05

Oh, yeah, you were late.


June Diane Raphael  07:06

And this is the best


Jessica St. Clair  07:06

Trip of our fucking lives. Like, why would we ever not do this?


June Diane Raphael  07:11

Truly Jess, I was like, I didn’t want to come back. I was very much so like I and traveling is a privilege, right? But I was like, and for us, of course, with the tour, we were making money and it ended up being you know, probably take a loss.


Jessica St. Clair  07:28

They do it, I go, they broke even if they were lucky. Because you know what I was over there. I came back with zero coffers, in the zero pennies in the coffers, who cares?


June Diane Raphael  07:43

You know what? And I’m going to cite right now, one of my list of works cited is going to be a Tiktok girl’s name I don’t even remember. But she and my phone. I gotta do this video because it made me laugh. She I know this podcast is recapping Tiktoks. Like I don’t sorry, but she had the funniest video about her relationship to money. And she goes, she goes, how much money I spend is frankly none of my business dying she’s like, yeah, whoever bought all those Ubers like, that’s Yesterday, like, I’m not gonna live in the past like that. And also that didn’t happen. Like that’s a swipe of my phone. That’s a bit like, it didn’t happen to me.


Jessica St. Clair  08:35

No, no.


June Diane Raphael  08:36

Didn’t happen to me. And so that’s where I started an Excel doc, I started in an Excel doc. Whereas like, I gotta look at some fucking numbers here. And I gotta figure out like, can we do this trip again?


Jessica St. Clair  08:51

Wasn’t worth it?


June Diane Raphael  08:52

But the truth is, like, I don’t know what the end numbers going to be. But of course, it was worth it.


Jessica St. Clair  08:58

I would never look at that number. I think I would suggest that you never that you destroy that. Because I what I’m hoping for is just breaking even or actually taking a little bit of a loss. That is fine. Because I want to get back there so badly that I will personally if I can see that we only lost a little bit of money. I will book the next what a great word. Great way, it’s like what I used to do with my apartment was every year I would Airbnb my apartment for three weeks. And that would pay for our trip to France.


June Diane Raphael  09:35

Where would you go?


Jessica St. Clair  09:37

I would go to France but but they would stay during that rangers would stay there and take care of the dog. I mean, a German director we had people we became very close to all of them would invite us to Munich, you know and all these places, now what Dan would never allow that to happen now that’s a that was a different time. You know? We could not have gotten there without that swap.


June Diane Raphael  10:03

And I’m gonna tell you, we traveled well Jess, we traveled well, and I do spend money on certain experiences. The amount is again, none of my business.


Jessica St. Clair  10:15

No, it already happened.


June Diane Raphael  10:17

It happened and it’s like, it’s like, don’t don’t try to, you know, wake the dead like that money’s dead.


Jessica St. Clair  10:24

Yes, like, no, it’s why this isn’t a Christmas story where you’re having to go visit Christmases past like, we’re here now. And I but I do struggle. When I get home from a trip. I do struggle, that anxiety can hit me on the descent where I go, Oh, God, I definitely would if I let that pass. It won’t stay.


June Diane Raphael  10:50

And I had to take, unfortunately, the tail end of our trip, two members of our family went down with a stomach bug.


Jessica St. Clair  10:57

Oh, no.


June Diane Raphael  10:59

Yeah, so I was responsible for like moving our flight up, getting us the fuck out of there within, like, when I tell you we had to race to the Dublin airport. I mean, we had to race, and with less than an hour to like board an international flight. It was crazy what I did, but ultimately, it was the right move. Because I was like, I will not sit in a dark hotel room taking care of two sick people today. And I know they didn’t want to get on an airplane. And that was their worst nightmare. But I forced them to and I was just like, we must get home like, I’m not doing this, you know, you can’t go down like that, but but that’s the other thing about travel is the ups and the downs, the highs. The highs are so high. And the lows can be so low. I’ll never forget when Dan exited. You know, an apartment in Edinburgh and I said to Bibi we may never see him again. You know, there’s always a moment where one spouse partner says I’m out. I can’t do this. […] Well, let me tell you.


Jessica St. Clair  12:15

Then you bounce back.


June Diane Raphael  12:16

You have to, and let me tell you Jess, it’s interesting you bring up Edinburgh. First of all, you know, my biggest fear of this trip and my traveling xiety was surrounding the weather and the forecast.


Jessica St. Clair  12:28

Yes, and how was it?


June Diane Raphael  12:30

It was great.


Jessica St. Clair  12:31



June Diane Raphael  12:32

We had like, one, one day of rain and half day rain in Paris, of half day of rain in London, it was no big, you know, and we did exactly what you suggested in London, which was, you know, find a pub got cozy got cozy, I brought my cards, we played hearts. You know, it’s perfect.


Jessica St. Clair  12:57

Listen, you don’t have to go on big vacations to have magical moments. But getting creative, and going can be so exhilarating. And these are memories.


June Diane Raphael  13:11

And you know what Jessa was really important. Like, I started to really understand the value of like, what I was giving our kids in terms of their their worldview, their understanding of themselves inside the world, their comfort being not knowing the language, what that feels like what you have to struggle through. And it definitelyI, it impacted them.


Jessica St. Clair  13:42

That’s so it is really cool, if you can get creative about how to it doesn’t have to be abroad, it can even be in your own backyard, but putting kids in situations that they’re not used to can relate to about how we grew up, it was very, we really were in our bubble for until I was 16. I went to France for the first time and it blew my mind.


June Diane Raphael  14:05

Oh, I didn’t like get on an airplane until I was 18. I mean, what these kids have experienced, you know, I I was really, I was really, really excited for them. And they really got something out of it, I guess. And I guess that’s the thing, right? Like, it felt so overwhelming. And I think the last time we talked on this podcast, I was like, it just feels like I’m going to Paris on Saturday, like how and what are the steps to get to the girl like plane and yet, and yet I’m here to report and you already know this Jess,  you do this. But it was like, oh, we just if you can get there, then you’re there. And it’s great to be there. Oh, man, you can figure it out. Like it wasn’t as Herculean as I had imagined it would be.


Jessica St. Clair  14:57

And you know, I was gonna get on and say should we ever have you traveling with children? There’s really a point and a counterpoint here. So yes, I vacillate wildly. I have had the feeling lately, like, there might have been some reason we weren’t on a plane until we were 15. And that might have made a whole lot of sense. So I’m not sure.


June Diane Raphael  15:21

Listen, I paid for them to travel quite well. That’s the other piece of it to the point where, you know, Gus, when he got off of the flight to Paris, he didn’t want to leave the plane. Yes, that motherfucker flew business class.


Jessica St. Clair  15:36

Yeah, well, that’s, yeah, be well, he was like, for where they have to go.  Yeah, and I was like, well, there’s more to the trip. And he was like, I’m good here. The thing that he talks about the most is that flight and how much he loved it. So like I also unfortunately taught them some some maybe not so great lessons, but I have to say they now I was very intense on like, we do one big thing a day experience wise. And that’s kind of it for the kids. Okay, well, that’s the now that’s that is the opposite. The last trip I took with Dan and BB. I crammed in one day surfing with a dog. To cut out a surfboard with a man named Rocky and his dog Kikko and they served.


June Diane Raphael  16:29

Excuse me?


Jessica St. Clair  16:30

Yes, a surfing with the dog and a horseback ride I […] we go hard well I go hard but one active you’re no you’re right.


June Diane Raphael  16:41

Because it’s several.


Jessica St. Clair  16:44

Oh yeah, I’m like we’re here for three days like I have to see everything and meet every local I can get my hands on I’m involved in Rocky’s you know personal life and how he came to the the island you know of a Wahoo and all of that. I gotta get involved in all of it. But then at the dinner time somebody has a meltdown. And it’s not always BB it’s sometimes right.


June Diane Raphael  17:07

It’s somebody else.


Jessica St. Clair  17:08



June Diane Raphael  17:09

No, I’m very like I you know, energy level was also they were jet lagged. Like I was like, we can only emotionally really do one thing and it means we’re not going to see every single thing, so right way to travel.


June Diane Raphael  20:09

I was really proud of my itinerary I wish I could like obviously, we went to the Louvre and saw amazing works of art. But I was like, Is there any way my itinerary could be featured here?


Jessica St. Clair  21:28

Boy, it was beautiful, and I’m so sorry, I didn’t have the time to just chime in, but there was no place for me to chime in. It was so well done. And I, I really, I was really inspired to because I think the next trip I take, I’m going to schedule like you did, because there is panic in what is coming. And I what I realized is not just for the parents who are deciding, but Bibi wants to know what’s coming. Kids don’t have control over their lives. We forget. Okay, and we were somewhere and I had to leave, I found out that my my childhood best friend’s father passed away. And I had to leave and go suddenly to New York, and that I didn’t realize how upsetting that was to her. They it’s not that we leave, it’s that they want to know they want.


June Diane Raphael  22:29

Yes, everything’s possible within communication, but they want to know, yeah.


Jessica St. Clair  22:33

Where are you what’s happening? Because imagine if your little body was being just transported to like various locations without?


June Diane Raphael  22:40



Jessica St. Clair  22:42

So I’m really going to do that next time. And I might even like contract somebody to help me with that because.


June Diane Raphael  22:47

Can I give you a hot tip?


Jessica St. Clair  22:48

Yeah, I would love it.


June Diane Raphael  22:51

I booked every single dinner reservation.


Jessica St. Clair  22:55

See that’s where it’s at.


June Diane Raphael  22:59

And that to me was key. I also said to the children, you eat breakfast, you don’t eat again till dinner. Because in between those two things we’re walking, maybe you get a hot cocoa or something. We pick you up a quest song, and you eat it along the way. But we’re not doing lunch.


Jessica St. Clair  23:21

Wow, this is a hot.


June Diane Raphael  23:23

Okay. And I will because I was like I can’t stop for lunch. Nor can I organize lunch. So lunch isn’t happening and and breakfast is at the hotel. So dinner is the special thing. And it’s something to look forward to. But I need to know where we’re eating because I also like to research restaurants and stuff. But I I was like I can’t, we can’t leave that up for grabs. I love that.


Jessica St. Clair  23:49

That’s great, hot tip.


June Diane Raphael  23:51

Yeah, that’s a hot tip actually, I booked all of the reservations a couple of times, I had to say, hey, can we come in a half an hour later, whatever. And it was fine. But I did do that ahead of time because I knew I couldn’t be searching at the end of the day hungry, hungry. I couldn’t be searching around for restaurants.


Jessica St. Clair  24:13

You know, my father is the most organized man on the planet. And what I realized is possibly because he shares a brain similar to me that he has learned to hyper organize.


June Diane Raphael  24:25

His other way.


June Diane Raphael  24:27

Yes, no that’s Paul Scheer as well. He loses his keys, his glasses, all of that.


June Diane Raphael  24:33

Lost as well at your wedding and miss most of it.


Jessica St. Clair  24:35

That’s mostly festivities searching for it. So that part is why I do think possibly that gene passed along to me, but what I’m learning.


June Diane Raphael  24:45

I’ve asked this before, but did he find it?


Jessica St. Clair  24:47

You know, it’s unclear. Those are lost hours, just like when an alien of ducks you for those new listeners. My father disappeared from our wedding reception for two straight hours because he couldn’t find his wallet. He drove the country lanes by himself, probably sobbing. What I wanted to discuss is that I believe life will destroy us. I’m not sure if we are built. And this is a weird transition though to survive life.


June Diane Raphael  25:19



Jessica St. Clair  25:20

Emotions. I witnessed some emotions this weekend that were so raw. And so guttural and it’s not just the person who’s going through it, but like if you love a person, and they have lost a person they love, you feel it? Not the same, but you feel it.


June Diane Raphael  25:51

Oh, yeah.


Jessica St. Clair  25:53

And so I’m in a place where I’m like, yes, take that trip, because there ain’t no going back once you cross through that door.


June Diane Raphael  26:07



Jessica St. Clair  26:10

Okay, and all we think is I wish I took that trip that one more trip, which of course, so much of the time is not actually what our loved one wants to do at the end, right? They, they don’t feel up to it, but it’s like, take the trip when you’re feeling well enough, to take it. Because soon enough, you’re going to say farthest I can go is Palm Springs springs. You know, but I have been communicating with a tremendous amount of dead people.


June Diane Raphael  26:47



Jessica St. Clair  26:48

To the point where I feel like I’m losing my mind.


June Diane Raphael  26:52



Jessica St. Clair  26:53

I’m just gonna tell you one moment that happened that was so these locking weird, okay, so in childhood best friend’s parents when they pass it might as well be your own because you grew up with them, cracking open their Reader’s Digest every time I went in. Mr. Kovacs Stein had a call the Reader’s Digest, cracked it open, give you a look, you know, you’re in and out of the house so like, you’re not even a new person, you’re just part of the family. So, you know, obviously, I just, I know how wonderful this gentleman was, but so he passed. And my childhood best friend is not as open to the other side as we are rich, which means she’s a normal person, you know, a normal person who is normal. And so I had spoken to her that morning, and we both cried. And, you know, and I had a feeling that you know, very strongly that where he was, he was very happy now. And I had an image of him with your father sharing a drink, you know, at whatever wood paneled bar they found, and I’ve just salted the earth. And so I had that feeling. And then Bibi and I and Dan went on a horseback ride later that day. And we had a guide with us. And so we’re going through and and she stopped and she goes, do you hear that? That songbird and it was the most beautiful, like melody you’ve ever heard. And she said, Oh, that’s a white tailed Shama thrush. She goes, that’s, you know, very rare, they’re very shy birds. And she started whistling back to it, and then it was whistling back to her and then it flew onto a branch that was no more than an arm’s length from me, stared in my eyes sang to me. I whistled back, sang to me again. It went on for five minutes. People were frozen, okay. The leader of the thing goes, has out of nowhere has somebody you love passed. And I said yes, and then BB turned around and said that’s, that’s her dad coming to say thank you for taking care of, of your friend. Because you know, BB so then we were all felt sick. We were like, the woman was like, we gotta go back. She was shaking, it was crazy. Then we all get off and I said, BB did you and she said, I knew when that bird flew over to you. I knew it was her dad. Before anybody said anything because I said what is it? Was it the leader of the horseback ride that put that in your mind? And she goes no. So anyway, so I googled it of course, it’s totem animal. It’s spirit. It means loss, hope and change. So, I mean, I don’t know, but that it was like, you know, in those birds and Mary Poppins sit on the windowsill that looks like an animatronic bird.


June Diane Raphael  30:21

I know exactly what happened.


Jessica St. Clair  30:26

I was like.


June Diane Raphael  30:27

Oh, I know. I’m not confused, no.


Jessica St. Clair  30:33

Yeah, whistles back. I also am a phenomenal whistler, I didn’t.


June Diane Raphael  30:38

I thought you were playing a track for a second. I was like, wow.


Jessica St. Clair  30:40

Oh, no, I’m a great Whistler.


June Diane Raphael  30:43

I know exactly what happened. I’m not surprised. And it’s beautiful you know? And I’m not I, you know, I think the people who don’t there’s some people in my life who are so sort of like brazenly, atheists.


Jessica St. Clair  31:04

Yes. […]


June Diane Raphael  31:09

It’s in there for me. You know, brazenly like your dad and your dad? And that’s it? And I’m just like, interestingly, they’re also people who haven’t lost anyone.


Jessica St. Clair  31:25

Yeah, I don’t know, you could say, oh, you need it so much you convince yourself. But I read, I reread science. I reread the book science, which I’d like to put on the book club list for for The Deep Dive Academy because before he even passed, I read it on the plane and it, it will shock the shit out of you the story she has.


June Diane Raphael  31:46

It won’t because I don’t feel, but see, I don’t feel the need to even like, I don’t shit to prove to anyone like I have my own private experience with that. And of course, you know what I mean? And it’s like, but what I find sometimes about atheists it actually it does offend me a bit where I’m like, it’s, it’s totally fine and wonderful to be an atheist. And I really do tip my hat. And I feel like people who make sure you know that about them. Don’t take into account how painful that can be. For people who have lost loved ones. And, and are in relationship with people who have passed, and that it’s very complicated and painful to be in relationship and grieving. And so I just sometimes find it like, I mean, there’s one person you probably know the same person who just loves to fucking tell me. And I’m like, buddy.


Jessica St. Clair  32:56

I know.


June Diane Raphael  32:58

Like yes, you’re offending me. I’m triggered by you.


Jessica St. Clair  33:04

I’m trying. Yeah, I know what you mean. And I And also there’s a laugh, there’s a laugh that comes with it.


June Diane Raphael  33:10

Like I’m saying.


Jessica St. Clair  33:11

Yeah, you idiot that you think? No, no, no, now I give a nap today.


June Diane Raphael  33:17

It’s so hard.


Jessica St. Clair  33:19

It is, and again, […] I go back and forth a lot sometimes because you know, I, I do know, I’ve had experience with with people who are not the real deal and say they are and then it can be very obviously preying on vulnerable people. But when I when you’re talking about your personal relationship with the person who has passed, and I remember when my best friend Kelly died, my therapist at the time who had lost her husband said to me, because I’m like, is it true? Where are they? And she goes, in some ways, it doesn’t matter because because I was so upset, I couldn’t call her I called her for a specific thing. And I was like, what the fuck am I gonna ask? And that’s when I realized when a light goes out, it’s a very special light. There isn’t any we’re also individuals right? So then you don’t sometimes you don’t really realize until the lights out what what you got from that person and what they gave you and all that. But I was so upset about it. And she goes, well, you know her so well that if you talk to her in your mind, you do know exactly what she’d say back. So in a way that relationship continues whether or not you absolutely whether or not they’re trying to peek in from the other side, which I happen to now believe after my animatronic bird incident. I mean, I was rocked to my core. Anyway, it’s the whole week. Dead people everywhere you know. And I love you. I welcome them, but I am a little bit exhausted by it right now.


June Diane Raphael  34:58

Sure, sure. I mean, it’s a lot. It’s a lot to do what you did this weekend, which is to bear witness also. And not everybody can. And not everybody can, like bear witness to someone’s grief and pain, and it’s, it is like, it’s a lot to hold. It makes me want to cry, because like, I’ve done it for other people, but I’ve also had people do it for me, and it’s like, to just show up to show up and say, like, I don’t know what to do, but I’m here is, I don’t know, I still I still I could tell you every single person who is on my mother’s funeral and my father’s like, I could literally name them. Because you do need people and you need them to be with you. Even if you can’t speak to them. You know, it’s like, it’s a very, it’s bearing witness. It’s saying like, I see I’m here for you know what I was thinking about. Just to go back to the shot blocker, you remember your shot? The whole episode about the Shot Blocker and the Shot Blocker for anywhere new deep divers, was something that my kids was specifically my younger son who was so upset about getting the vaccine shots. I found this thing recommended my by my friend, as a doctor where it puts it puts a it’s like a little plastic thing that you put around where the injections going, and it’s got little spikes on it doesn’t hurt but you push the spikes in and then you get the shot.


Jessica St. Clair  36:36

Right? It’s like, disperses it. Basically it disperses the pain.


June Diane Raphael  36:40

It disperses the pain. So it’s like that to me, which is not it’s the same amount of pain actually. It is and you’re gonna get the shot no matter fucking what. But the way you take it and the way that pain is going to come in. It’s like you need those those people to be the little pokes around you that’s like we can stand here and let the pain kind of dissipate. So it’s not a fucking execution to your head. Similarly, not to tie the Titanic into this but I will.


June Diane Raphael  39:20

I went to the Titanic Museum and Palace was waiting for that. I learned so much I would almost like to do a spin off podcast just about the Titanic.


Jessica St. Clair  40:47

I’m here for it.


June Diane Raphael  40:48

Best museum I’ve ever been to know my life.


Jessica St. Clair  40:51



June Diane Raphael  40:52

I’m gonna say that right now.


Jessica St. Clair  40:53

Okay, that’s a hot tip


June Diane Raphael  40:56

In Belfast where they built it. But one of the things that I was struck by was how you know, from the time they saw the iceberg to when they were hit that was 30 seconds you know, Iceberg right ahead, 28, 27, 26 and they’re they’ve they’ve hit it. You probably remember in the movie, they start to turn the boat frantically in those days. Now one of the things I learned maybe it’s public knowledge, but had they actually stayed the course and hit it straight on there, they would have only compromised like one compartment of the ship. It was in the turning the frantic turning it’s why the it’s why their ship sank. If they had just like flooded one, you know, containment area, they probably could have like limped their way to New York. The disaster that happened.


Jessica St. Clair  41:57

Was turning.


June Diane Raphael  41:58

Was turning and so it and but instinctually right, like we want to turn and actually going like head on into that experience would have would have saved you know, countless lives. That’s anyway it’s not an exact analogy.


Jessica St. Clair  42:26

No, it actually […] came up with two pretty perfect poetic.


June Diane Raphael  42:31

At the shop blogger was probably a better metaphor.


Jessica St. Clair  42:34

No actually, they’re both are beautiful representations and metaphors for what it is to, to go through this and I’m gonna give you a third.


June Diane Raphael  42:43

All right, what she got?


Jessica St. Clair  42:46

In Bibi’s class the whole year and I don’t know why this is in California but we’d spend everyone in like their fourth grade years studies the Gold Rush it’s like I don’t know why I know it’s like I know we have we learned about it on the never knew I think I knew like your pan for gold but they they’re obsessed with all year round. And and they have this project at Bibi’s class where like they have their mining company and they have to they get you know decisions like okay your ox you know fell into a crevasse, are you going to do this, this or this and then you get gold nuggets or you don’t get gold? But they learn a lot about the Oregon Trail. And I kept thinking because obviously my I haven’t had a parent passed but we all will right so I’m doing these things and I’m experiencing this right and I’m I’m sad for my friend but I’m also seeing my future. And I was thinking to myself, how beautiful it is. And I and I’m gonna say especially women, that we are pioneers for each other in in childbirth in falling in love and getting your period in grieving a parent and going through a divorce where we say, hi I reached the sea.


June Diane Raphael  44:09

Yeah Iceberg right ahead.


Jessica St. Clair  44:12

Or the see is will be there you’ll get there I’ll I’ll set up my mining camp. I promise you you’re you’re going to get there. I know you have dysentery now, and for some reason all of their presentations were killing me because they would end it and they’d go. This presentation is in loving memory of Fred who died of dysentery and then […] Of our donkey, our donkey […] who broke his leg we had to put down.


June Diane Raphael  44:46

Well, listen, I do think dying of dysentery is like what do you shoot yourself to death? That’s terrible.


Jessica St. Clair  44:51

A lot of them came to some really nasty means.


June Diane Raphael  44:55

Well, can I just say one thing about the Jess, which is again Titanic related but it is about putting the call out about what’s ahead. And actually on the Titanic there were many messages they would find out later on the came through from other ships saying there’s icebergs throughout this area unfortunately the man who was responsible whoever whatever his title is he kept on writing back like, like there’s actual we saw it there’s a med tellurium Hussin which was like I’m working, shut up like he didn’t want to know because what he was worried about was getting the first class passengers their telegrams and their messages and so he completely ignored them. So we have to listen when our messages come through you know? And I think I just think it’s so it’s such a lesson in showing up and also knowing like when when you show up and you take on someone’s pain like it does stay with you and so then you have to really be kind to yourself to as you are kind to that person because it does we hold it you took a little bit for her session have to take that shot head on, it’s like we have to Jess, it’s a lot.


Jessica St. Clair  44:59

It’s so beautiful when you have a true best friend because they’re up at 4am and so are you with because I was thinking my God, these aren’t my memories. I didn’t live through that. But I’m up at three thinking about them. And it’s almost like we’re psychically processing each other’s like sifting through the backpack that we’re all this heavy backpack. We’re like taking rocks out and looking what’s in there, I don’t know.


June Diane Raphael  47:00

Can I tell you something?


Jessica St. Clair  47:01



June Diane Raphael  47:02

And this is.


Jessica St. Clair  47:03

A little bit of a change of subject please. I got so dark and deep but I had to just ya.


June Diane Raphael  47:08

No, it’s a little bit of change of subject but I will tell you that yesterday unfortunately the night we got home. Well the morning we woke up after we arrived back we got back at 10pm I had been up at that point for like 48 hours got back I had a layover and whatever is a nightmare got back 10pm once the kids into wherever when he goes to sleep or cracked out, a wake up and the kids have Lepin go out of his cage is whatever crate and they’re all he he’s never come upstairs. And he jumps on the bed. And in the moment I did have this feeling of like, and the kids are laughing and he’s licking Paul and I had this feeling of like, wow, it’s like a commercial. You really are looking at your life. And I was actually telling myself like June like jump into this moment. Stop thinking about what it looks like observing it, like jump into this. Look at this, how beautiful. There was a some sort of instinct that said something, something’s off. Then I went down stair. And I smelled it at the top of the stairs. I was like shit all over. Okay, great.


Jessica St. Clair  48:29

I didn’t think this was where it was.


June Diane Raphael  48:34

Sitting on Paul’s face like it was an everybody screaming laughing and I’m like, Oh my god. He’s had massive diarrhea and slept through it, like slept in it.


Jessica St. Clair  48:45

Oh, God.


June Diane Raphael  48:46

I was it was very upsetting is very upsetting.


Jessica St. Clair  48:49

But that’s also life because.


June Diane Raphael  48:51

That’s life baby. It’s like also it’s a terror, terror, but I will say this about Bingo. Yesterday was the first day and I don’t know if other dog owners who felt this way. But I felt like I really let myself bond with him.


Jessica St. Clair  49:13

I totally understand that. It takes just it takes a while a little while.


June Diane Raphael  49:19

Yeah. Like I was like, Okay, you’re because you know and Jess, when I tell you it’s pre menopausal. I can’t, I’ve been calling him meatball. I really is that did that happen with you? And I’m like, I guess.


Jessica St. Clair  49:34

I still do it sometimes [..] upsetting to everybody.


June Diane Raphael  49:38

It’s people have been disturbed around.


Jessica St. Clair  49:40

Oh, yeah, they’re like, please stop bringing that up. Yeah, that was a very traumatic time in our lives. And I’m like, I know.


June Diane Raphael  49:47

But I felt yesterday like, oh, I let him in. I let him in, that was very nice. No, that’s all you know, that’s all and I would let him I did something crazy what right that had never we’re watching the women’s final Iowa versus South Carolina. What a game what an experience. And Sam politic and gusta clippers game Sam and I were staying back and watch and and I was like, I’m gonna let him up on the couch which we don’t do dogs don’t go on cats crazy, not surprising but yeah, okay. And he’s a great Snuggler turtles.


Jessica St. Clair  50:28

Oh God, you have to let them on the couch.


June Diane Raphael  50:32

But what do you do? I mean you have smaller dogs than I do Jess.


Jessica St. Clair  50:36

No, that’s true, but I just think they destroy your couch and then you just like get a new one.


June Diane Raphael  50:42

How can you? Is that what it is?


Jessica St. Clair  50:44

Yeah, it is. I did have that experience yesterday where I was like, wait, why do we have a dog? If not to do this? He literally curled up. No, it doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t make sense. I know what are we doing? No, Cookie was at Uncle Josh’s while we were away for a couple days but I realized that I feel like an appendage is missing when I don’t have her with me now that’s an that took that took a while but.


June Diane Raphael  51:10

I’m a better woman. I know I feel we.


Jessica St. Clair  51:14

Better woman with her sister. And that might be because we are so dysregulated that we need constant love coming our way, and we need that that regulation of petting a dog but I missed her so much. I couldn’t wait to get home and they just they just complete us, you know?


June Diane Raphael  51:36

They really do. They really, really do. You know, and I know this has turned into like a dog appreciation podcast. But boy, they really and I just it’s not that I didn’t love him. I just felt something shift yesterday. Where it was like, I opened myself up to him. To him being different. And new, and wonderful.


Jessica St. Clair  52:01

That’s right, you stop comparing. It’s like you moved from New York to LA and you stop saying, Oh God, it’s not like New York, it’s like, no, it’s nothing like New York, and it’s, it’s so beautiful in a way that.


June Diane Raphael  52:13



Jessica St. Clair  52:13

Yeah, and I will say that I feel, as I said, open to dead people right now. And I don’t know how long I can keep that door open, because it’s exhausting. But I also felt like when we were on that horseback right before the animatronic bird got to me. I was watching Dan and Bibi on the horse, head of me and beautiful light coming down and I started sobbing. And that’s very different for me. I don’t let those types of feelings and I cover so much of it with work and constant productivity and stress and all of that. And I was like, boy, I’m open a cracked open. And I do think that’s why getting ourselves out of our regular routine is so important. And someone said, when you travel you meet. It’s not so much about seeing different places you meet different parts of yourself. I saw that in a billboard in an in an airport, so I don’t I can’t, okay, I’m not gonna say sort of like when you go through when you go through the tunnel to get on the plane. There’s always like, usually some really compelling marketing campaign.


June Diane Raphael  53:22

Like it was one of those.


Jessica St. Clair  53:23

Like Charlize Theron, like selling Dior, yeah, but, you know, anyway, deep divers, deep divers. Oh, we have something exciting to talk about, which is we are okay.


June Diane Raphael  53:36

That’s exciting.


Jessica St. Clair  53:37

Oh, I can’t believe we’ve not teased it yet today, but The Deep Dive Academy is what would you call it?


June Diane Raphael  53:46

Well, we’re launching a series, a show essentially, which is going to be a companion piece to this very podcast. So if you want to enjoy the deeper dive, then please sign up as a student at the Academy because starting next week, we are going to be doing a wrap up episode about the episode we just released where we’re also going to it’s going to be very interactive. We’re going to be bringing our students on we’re going to be talking about the episode answering questions.


Jessica St. Clair  54:25

And getting, getting their hot takes. I think that different.


June Diane Raphael  54:29

I want to know what people think about the Titanic, like where are we I want it we know?


Jessica St. Clair  54:34

What other people have been interacting with birds from dead people. I want to know all of that. And this is born just so for people who don’t know what the academy is where it really lives. It’s a private Instagram portal, which I did not understand before we started to do it but it’s an Instagram that only you can get to if you if you’re a subscriber and we go live on Instagram. And that’s it. Pull on our students, so lots of people have like, oh, a bonus podcast this is not that.


June Diane Raphael  55:07

It is super interactive. And yeah, it is a show that’s going to be live on Instagram from.


Jessica St. Clair  55:14

You’ll have in every week, every week, have it every week.


June Diane Raphael  55:17

Now if you don’t have Instagram and want to join and see this live show, I, you should add a look. You know, I gotta be honest here, you don’t have a solve for that.


Jessica St. Clair  55:25

Here’s what I’ll say that we have a lot of a lot actually have a Deep Divers who only created their Instagram to have access to this set of any profile.


June Diane Raphael  55:37

Do have but you do need the Instagram account, because that’s where the show is.


Jessica St. Clair  55:42

You don’t have to lose your mind on social media, you can just have subscribe to us and nobody else. But it’s gonna be really, really special. So if you’ve been on the fence, like oh, gosh, should I check out the academy? This is the time it’s gonna be wild. It’s so fun. And it’s so weird. We like to go into people’s homes. We have been inside people’s closets. We’ve been inside their workplaces.


June Diane Raphael  56:06

We’ve been so crazy. And it’s so great to be it’s going to be so great to talk about some of the bit. Bits and bobs from the episode. And to like I want to hear travel to like I want to know if we’re all booking dinner reservations only travel like I want to know from our listeners from you all so head to the deep dive Academy and use code listener for 25% off any of the enrollment.


Jessica St. Clair  56:36



June Diane Raphael  56:36

Packages and yeah, we’re going to be launching next week, we’ll see you there, bye guys.


CREDITS  57:18

The Deep Dive is produced by Lemonada Media, Jessica Sinclair and Jun Diane Raphael. Special thanks to Anne Geddes for a cover art and Lennon Parham. For her sweet, sweet vocals. The best way to support us is to rate and review. Follow The Deep Dive wherever you get your podcasts or listen to ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.

Spoil Your Inbox

Pods, news, special deals… oh my.