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When Judd Apatow was in sixth grade, he knew he wasn’t like the other kids. While everyone else played sports, he would come directly home from school to watch shows like M*A*S*H, The Odd Couple, and Monty Python. Sam asks Judd about his choice to write jokes for comics twice his age, where his unearned confidence came from, and how to stay humble in Hollywood. Plus, they swap crime stories, from changing the price tags on racquetball racquets to… stealing cars?

Check out his new book, “Sicker in the Head: More Conversations About Life and Comedy.”

Follow Judd Apatow @JuddApatow on Twitter and Instagram.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Judd Apatow, Samantha Bee

Samantha Bee  00:00

Hi, I’m Samantha Bee. And in a previous life, I was a teenage criminal. I mean, technically it was this lifetime, but I’m just trying to make sure the authorities don’t come after me. What kind of extradition policy does Canada have with the US? Am I joking? I don’t know. But it is true. As a teenager I was guilty of a few things that I’m now quite ashamed about. There were the Anne Marie haircuts, those were bad. The double popped color polo shirts worse and also the car theft. Okay, I suppose you could say that. That probably was the worst? Yeah, I was 15. And yes, of course, I had a shady boyfriend who I thought was God’s gift. We lived in Toronto, we were aspirational. I mean, like, frankly, we weren’t rich at all, but we definitely wanted to be and so we got to work. So instead of smoking pot in a basement, like all normal teens, we would Yes, steal cars to finance our lavish lifestyles of aforementioned double polo shirts and fancy hotel room parties that we threw for all of our greasy teenage friends. Now, I did not actually steal the cars myself, but I did a very solid lockout job. And then we would sell whatever parts we could figure out how to remove from the car and then we would use that cash to rent the fancy hotel rooms. Like I would literally rent rooms under fake fancy names like Mrs. Rose. Well, did I mention my Ed braces and one side of my hair was shorter than the other side of my hair. Anyways, it is true, like I am actually banned from ever staying at the Toronto downtown Sheraton ever again. My picture might be on the wall in the security hut. I really can’t go into more specifics. Look at as my wife thought that was a wise lifestyle. I naively assumed that if someone could afford one car, surely they could afford two or 10. I had no idea. I don’t know why I thought that it certainly wasn’t true for my family. It would have been a total disaster for us. Sometimes we make choices without thinking about who else they affect. I tried to do less of that now. So one day, really, I woke up and some smart straight A student who was laying dormant inside me said this is not who you are. Reminder, stealing is not a victimless crime. Everyone in your life hates you. And also you hate you. Stop it. Stop it right now. And I did. I did that day I stopped making those calls. I stopped dating him that exact day. I just walked away cold turkey like full stop complete turnaround. It was like a full slap across the face wake up call self administered like running full tilt into a wall and waking up totally reborn. And I really, really don’t regard that time with pride. Although I do confess that it makes an amusing story and have spent the rest of my days somehow trying to make up for it all. Anyway, I love it when a smart choice presents itself to you as a non choice that you know is so right. That you feel it in your bones. Today, Samantha Bee you are taking a different path. This is Choice Words. And today I’m joined by the very funny writer, producer, director, author of sicker in the head Judd Apatow, you will love his movies like 40 Year Old Virgin Anchorman The King of Staten Island train wreck and really so many more. We talked all about choices from the projects he chooses to make to learning to live a more Zen life, have a listen and make good choices.

Samantha Bee  05:44

Can I just start asking you questions now?

Judd Apatow  05:47

Just jump right into it.

Samantha Bee  05:49

We jump right in. Are you in Los Angeles right now?

Judd Apatow  05:52

I am at my office. I’m striking right now in my office.

Samantha Bee  05:57

Will be written down.

Judd Apatow  05:59

Now this will be written down. And all I’m doing is looking at TIC TOCs. And reading Apple news. And no creativity is happening.

Samantha Bee  06:08

No creativity, no ideas. No thoughts.

Judd Apatow  06:11

I’m dead inside.

Samantha Bee  06:12

No forward motion. Nothing.

Judd Apatow  06:15

No streamer will make any money off of my thoughts in this room.

Samantha Bee  06:20

No, not anymore. Not today.

Judd Apatow  06:23

I shut it down.

Samantha Bee  06:24

Should we? Should we talk briefly like before we even get into anything else should we just gently celebrate? Or really relish in the fact that Tucker Carlson is not gracing our television screens right now?

Judd Apatow  06:39

It’s weird that it happened, isn’t it? But he’s like, like, isn’t it? What you always hoped would happen? Which is yeah, what if he was just revealed facing the crowd style, as hating his audience and not believing most of what he says. And then it just appeared that way.

Samantha Bee  07:00

It just appeared that way it happened. And then he was all of a sudden, just off TV, probably for ever.

Judd Apatow  07:09

Who knows if he can get all those people back who liked him when he admitted he didn’t like them? Give me a self hating fan of all of that, to let them back in. Because it’s rare that we really have the just the hatred for your own audience being so naked like that, because it is what you thought like, oh, he doesn’t really probably believe most of this, but you never thought you’d get it written down.

Samantha Bee  07:38

I can’t believe he wrote all those thoughts down just in a way that was so beautifully rolled out for all of us, like a like a transcript of his hatred and derision.

Judd Apatow  07:49

Well, there’s that great book that Brian Stelter wrote about, box and how it’s run. And he basically said, that they’re just trying to please the audience. For the most part, obviously, they’re conservative, but they’re trying to please the audience. And I think that’s what happens to people like Tucker Carlson, which is the audience like a, you know, a Facebook algorithm just takes you to the dark side. I mean, everything about human nature takes you to the dark side. So if you go, wow, my ratings go up. If I just keep saying what they want to hear, then it just gets weirder and darker and weirder, just for the same reason. When you go on YouTube, it just keeps getting darker and weirder, and he’s getting paid more money. So there’s a motivation to become that person. And I really think, having met some of these people, that they really have convinced themselves that they don’t have any effect on the culture or politics. They really think if I didn’t say it, someone else would. They let themselves off the hook, or well, there’s all this liberal media, there has to be right wing media. And so this is all fine. And it’s something they disconnect from the actual real world damage and some of it.

Samantha Bee  09:05

Which ones have you met? I met Tucker once. Did you ever meet him?

Judd Apatow  09:08

I never met Tucker. I met Ann Coulter once, oh, she hangs around the comedy world a little bit and has some comedian friends. And I had always thought that that was a character in a very Tucker Carlson type of way. And within 15 seconds of talking to her, she said three things which are so horrible, and she clearly meant them. You know, it wasn’t just for, you know, being on TV. Like she just said some awful things.

Samantha Bee  09:38

Oh, wow. Well, there was this one time when I it was years and years and years ago was like early days of Full Frontal. And I interviewed Glenn Beck which, of course, people have never let me forget. And of course I’ve never forgotten. I understand. Yes, yes. We all have regrets in life. But one thing that he did say to me that still lives his real The state of my brain is he was because I mentioned something about Ann Coulter to him, and he was like, Yeah, but you’re like our Ann Coulter. And I really took that to heart. I think I need to change some things about myself. That’s not great.

Judd Apatow  10:18

Well, that’s the whole thing about like, cruelty is the point. Oh, yeah. That’s, I don’t think people really understand the ways that money changes people’s behavior. Oh, doesn’t it, you know, being around money. You know, whether it’s political donations or your job, but most people will just go the path of least resistance. And that’s clearly what’s happening at Fox, generally, which is there’s a lot of people there, a lot of them are probably nice people. And they’re just getting some instructions from above. And they just want to go home and have dinner with you. So, but I have felt better not watching as much. I do read read a little bit every night. But I TV news started really disappearing, almost like I got allergic to it. Right? Just that and COVID was just too much negative energy for too many years. Like it rewires your brain to be depressed in some way. And so now my Instagram it is, it is the most stunning collection of cat videos, documentaries about Fleetwood Mac motivational sayings from Ram Dass and Eckhart Tolle, but mainly cats, mainly cats.

Samantha Bee  11:35

Little Fluffs. Exactly. Okay. All right. So this podcast is called choice words. We’re talking all about, like the choices that people make in life, and I’m introducing our audience to some spectacular choices that I made in my own life. Some good, some terrible, but I think, like, I’ll give you just an example. So I was telling our audience how I was a petty criminal when I was a teenager you all were well, we stole cars. I guess that’s not petty. That’s that’s grand theft. Grant. That’s, that’s like, go to jail. But anyway, I never got caught. But I remember.

Judd Apatow  12:18

What did you do with the cars joy ride or sell them?

Samantha Bee  12:23

Both? Wow, only ride for a little while. So keep the car ride around and rig it up so that it was like easy to start. Use it for its purposes and then sell it for parts and then throw wild parties in hotels.

Judd Apatow  12:39

What age did you do this?

Samantha Bee  12:41

15-16

Judd Apatow  12:42

What city?

Samantha Bee  12:44

Toronto.

Judd Apatow  12:44

I love it. I love that you took it that far to full, stealing cars. I will tell you what my thievery was, what was it we would go to a sporting goods store. Me and my my two friends. We would switch price tags on racquetball racquets, see kids before pickleball there was a thing called racquetball. I remember racquetball and some of the rackets cost like $200. But other rackets which looked very similar cost $18. So we would switch the price tags, you know, buy them for $18 return them. And then we would have all this credit. And then our parents were so negligent, they didn’t notice that, like suddenly, we had brand new winter coats and skis and ski pants at. And we did all of them. I tried to do it once with the jeans, like sets on jeans or something. Sure. And those are like $200. I tried to buy him for $20. And of course, the woman at the counter is like those aren’t $20 That’s on jeans. So I got caught. And then they put me like underneath the store. And if it was Bloomingdale’s, or something like that, and it was like a little security room, a little scary. Security room and they tried to call my home. Of course, no one was home because no one was ever home. No. And then after a while they’re like, Okay, don’t do it again. Another another time I got in trouble being a little kid. Maybe we were in like, sixth grade or something. Throwing tennis balls at cars. Oh, like on the highway, not on the highway, but through a neighborhood. And it was winter. And this guy got out of this little shitty Pinto hunted all three of us down one by one like the Terminator. Oh, wow. Each one of us homes, our parents and when we got home to my house, my parents weren’t home. My sister was home. And she was like, eight or nine left alone or maybe my mom was in the shower, right? And then she said she’s in the shower and he’s like, well tell your mom that he threw tennis balls at my car and left me there then she didn’t tell me.

Samantha Bee  15:00

I like that he brought you home too. And that was okay. He was like, I’m bringing you home. You’re like, I will get in your car and you take me home.

Judd Apatow  15:07

I was scared because I really I was aware that I was possibly about to be murdered.

Samantha Bee  15:13

Okay. Wow, this is these are very delinquent activity.

Judd Apatow  15:17

I’ll tell you a third delinquent one because I’d be like, three to Eagle the car.

Samantha Bee  15:22

I don’t know. These are pretty good ones. But okay.

Judd Apatow  15:24

We used look for cars with radar detectors. That was a craze, you’d have a little device and you put it on your windshield and it would tell you if it was a cop. Checking radar.

Samantha Bee  15:37

Oh, yeah, like it was like a little box. Right? Like a little Yeah, okay. Okay.

Judd Apatow  15:42

And we would like break people’s windows and steal their radar detectors. But we didn’t take the whole car like you. You’re a crazy person.

Samantha Bee  15:52

I guess over what do you do with the radar detectors?

Judd Apatow  15:55

Find some weird dude. We’ll give you 50 bucks for it. We didn’t very often but it was a it was a creepy time. But I think like all of our parents had just gotten divorced and we were all miserable. I think we wanted to get caught. We just wanted to yell at our parents and go see what you turn this into.

Samantha Bee  16:12

You ruined your Legos you perishing? I can do this on my own.

Judd Apatow  16:18

I’m stealing radar detectors because I am traumatized.

Samantha Bee  16:25

Oh my god, that is so funny. Let’s take a quick break and then we’ll be back with Judd Apatow. Is there anything that shocks you about a choice that you made career wise in the past that you’re like he was so ballsy to do that? Or like, I can’t believe.

Judd Apatow  20:17

Oh, yeah, so many so many things. I look back. Now. I think when you’re young, you have this madness, like a belief that you’ll make it and just the courage to do crazy things. And my belief in myself was was completely unwarranted. But I would take on things I didn’t know how to do a lot of time, like what I remember when I started writing jokes for people because I needed money to pay the rent, and I wasn’t making enough money as a stand up comedian. And I started writing jokes for Tom Arnold. And that was right when Tom Arnold hit town. And then he was so funny. And we would just sit and try to think of jokes for Tom. And I wrote all these jokes for Tom. And with Tom, they kind of made fun of what people thought of him just self deprecating jokes, and they worked really well. And I did a couple of HBO specials with him. And then that went well. So then Roseanne hired me to write her act. She hired me, John Reed, G, great writer from Sanders and 30 Rock and a lot of amazing shows, and Nora McDonnell. And so I used to go to Roseanne house, I remember going with normal ones. And we would sit at her kitchen table and write jokes. But I’m like a child, I’m 21 years old trying to write for this 40 year old woman.

Samantha Bee  21:36

Like peri menopause.

Judd Apatow  21:38

I write jokes about that, I wrote a joke about stretch marks, I don’t even think I knew a stretch mark was, I remember the joke was that she says, you know, the only way to get rid of stretch marks is you got to put on another 10 pounds just a banging out the other way. I don’t even know if that makes sense, physically, but, but the courage to just sit with her and think I could meet when she was so brilliant. I think mainly I was transcribing and I was pleasant to be around. And I had a good sense of what was good that someone else said. And at the end of the day, they thought maybe Judd was a part of that. But really, I was typing.

Samantha Bee  22:20

Oh, my God, where did all of that on earned confidence come from it? Can I have it?

Judd Apatow  22:26

But I think that’s how it kind of everybody in our world was like that. And I don’t think you can do comedy. If on some level you, you don’t have your unearned confidence.

Samantha Bee  22:39

Right, right. So at what point did you decide that that was the career path that you’re going to like without any hesitation? Was there a moment? Was there a moment that you remember where you were like, I chose this, this chooses me, we’re going down this route? And I will not take no for an answer. This is just what I do. This is what I do forever.

Judd Apatow  22:59

It must have been sixth grade, I think. Because I was obsessed with the Marx Brothers. And Saturday Night Live had started. And I loved all that stuff. So much Monty Python, Second City when it came on. And I just thought no one is interested in this. But me. There was no one at school liked any of it. And I thought, well, that must mean that there’s not too many people chasing it. And I can get in. That’s that’s the math I did. Like no one wants to do this. And I think they need people in this business. There’s not that many people in this business, it seems, from what I can tell from The Mike Douglas Show. And I thought, well, maybe this will be my own thing because I wasn’t interested in what anyone else was interested in. And no one was interested in talking about comedy in the way that I was. And then I moved to LA and and I found 100 friends who were like me the weird nerd in their school who was into that stuff. And that was why I think I believed in myself because I thought there’s probably 100 Comics in the whole country. I could be 101?

Samantha Bee  24:09

I’ve seen them all. They’re all present on television. And then I’m just gonna go and put my name and I just go get find the list. And then I just sign in, and they just call me up.

Judd Apatow  24:19

I’m just going to go evening of the improv taping and say, I’d like to be on the show.

Samantha Bee  24:23

You must have watched so much. I watched so much TV growing up like I think we’re both saying to each other that we’re like latchkey kids here because I don’t think anyone was ever. I was like making Swiss steak in a electric frying pan at the age of eight. And everyone was like, did you eat like, yeah, I made a full dinner. There was comedy on TV all the time. And I watched it too. It was just like constant like I just was like, every day sketches. I watch sketches every day. SCTV always Carol Burnett, always I Love Lucy. As an owl on the weekends. Stay up late. No one cared. Yeah, watch it. If felt like elicit.

Judd Apatow  25:00

Yeah. I remember, you know, I would watch mash every day of the week, odd couple, every day of the week, every day, honeymooners and Mary Tyler Moore, Bob Newhart in New York. They were all on every single day. And I wouldn’t go home after school. I didn’t play sports. I would just watch all those shows and watch all the talk shows. And I you know, when I met Norman Lear, you know, I just thought, Well, you’re the person that programmed my brain. Like watching all in the family taught me what comedy was taught me what morality was storytelling. And what was I thinking when I watched mash? Mash is the such a dark show. I’m watching it like eight, nine years old, every day for years, but I must have picked up something about what it was about and the feelings evolved and the morality of war, these ethical dilemmas everybody was in. And I don’t know what it did, but it made me you know, think what is a good person?

Samantha Bee  26:06

Oh, my God, I’m so I’m so excited to hear you say this was I literally just watched an episode of mash just the other day. And it was such a complex issue. Because Hawk I let someone die on the operating table, who had said something racist who said something awful to him, and he let him die on the on the operating table.

Judd Apatow  26:28

You’re gonna die anyway? Or he murdered him?

Samantha Bee  26:30

No, he could have saved his life. He like, essentially let him die real he murdered him kind of Yeah, he he’s stepped back and could have saved his life with a serious intervention and didn’t. And he was like, in their, in their tent, just crying and like smashed a martini glass. You know, it’s so dramatic.

Judd Apatow  26:51

Like, I can’t do this operation. I’m gonna let Larry Lynnville handle it.

Samantha Bee  26:55

That’s right. And they had a big ethical discussion. And I was like, Yeah, that was the comedy we all want. Every time was on I watched her watch the Jeffersons like it was just always, we were just always watching comedy all the time.

Judd Apatow  27:07

I want to watch that episode. Now, I want to know what the guy did to deserve to get murdered.

Samantha Bee  27:11

Yeah. The point is, that was our combination. That was who raised us. No big deal. How do you choose projects at this point? Because you’ve your career is so diverse. I mean, how do you select what you want to work on next?

Judd Apatow  27:27

So it’s just something you know, fresh in everyone’s head, someone just tells you a story. And you’re like, I wish that movie existed? Oh, maybe I’ll help them try to make an exist. And that’s really what it is. Would I get excited to go see it? And then it’s, can I be helpful? Because there are great ideas where I go, I don’t know how to do that. I don’t know how to, you know, make a horror movie. But there are certain types of movies that I think oh, I think if I was, if I was talking to you about this, it might get better. Because I was involved.

Samantha Bee  28:00

Would you make something that’s totally out of your comfort zone? I guess if it was an idea that excited you, would you be like, do you ascribe to that notion of like, oh, do something every day that scares the shit out of you.

Judd Apatow  28:12

I find comedy always scares the shit out of me, I don’t really need to do a serious drama to be scared because every joke might not work. And isn’t that scary enough? It is scary. There’s just no telling if people will like it or dislike it, and and you just have no clue if you’re wrong. And you have to act so confident when you make a comedy movie the whole time, as if you know exactly what you’re doing. But the truth is, it might work. Yeah, or it might just be weird. There’s just no way to know. But I don’t have any categories. Sometimes it’s people, you just go Oh, I’d like to talk to this person for three years. You know, hang out with Amy Schumer and help her crack this and she’s great and fun to talk to. And that’s a big part of it. Like with Camille Nanjiani and Emily Gordon. You know, it was hard for them to write that movie. It took a long time. But it was also Oh, it’s fun. We all get to talk for a long time. And then it ends and you’re sad. And you’re like, Oh, we had a reason to like jump on the phone constantly, which is the hardest part about show businesses that, you know, the projects go away. And suddenly, they’re these people that you don’t have a reason to talk in this in the same intimate way and terrified way, as when you’re in the middle of trying to crack a creative problem.

Samantha Bee  29:37

I’ve heard you say that in interviews where you were like, I love it when someone has an idea that I don’t have or like it’s fun to be in a room with people have better ideas.

Judd Apatow  29:46

I remember all the moments too when people like talk to me, and I’m always like, so happy about it. Because, you know there’s something about like this world that you can get in ahead of like it’s about me and It takes a little work to go. No, it’s about this collaboration this like joining of forces to create something together. It’s never you. You’re just one part of that. And when it works really well say like bridesmaids where you go, wow, everybody just crushed it and Paul feed crushed it and Kristen and Annie and all the actresses and actors, like that’s such a good feeling that the team did well. And I tried to just remind myself to stay in that head. I think the reason why it’s hard to say that is because you also think if this sucks, it’s only my fault. Right? Like, I give the wrong advice. I could really set this in the wrong direction.

Samantha Bee  30:45

More with Judd Apatow after our last break. Okay, have you ever been in that position and you’re directing a film? And you have been very staunchly believing in a choice that you’re making? Like in the in the direction that you think that you should be going and then have you ever just been like this is like a pebble in my shoe. It’s really bugging me. It’s keeping me awake. I gotta change this. I gotta like address this. Have you ever changed course totally wrong. Like I’m so wrong. and fucked?

Judd Apatow  33:32

I always remember this one moment on the set of bridesmaids and you know, I’m producing and I show up one day and it was just a blocking thing. And you know what it was it was a scene where Kristen Wiig punches the cookie and attacks chocolate fountain. And everybody was inside and she was gonna have to run outside to do it. I don’t know I I showed him that day. And for some reason I was like, I think this is all wrong. Like it’s not going to work because they’re all inside and why would she be out there and it is hilarious photo of this moment where I’m like, saying, I think this is blocked wrong. Paul Feig is just looking at me not thrilled. And Kristen Wiig looks like she wants to kill me. Because she’s, she’s 100%. Right? That their blocking is correct. But I am proud of the fact that like I did back down, you know, I, I tend to not ever push that, you know? So as a collaborator, I might go I think this is wrong. But if they’re like, No, it’s right for this reason. Unless it seems crazy. I will always defer to them.

Judd Apatow  34:48

Oh, that’s good. That’s a good a good job. Right? You always want to have them think they’re allowed to tell you if it’s wrong, because I always really tell people like you can lay me out like, here’s my new screenplay. Send me an email, tell me what you think you can tell me if you hate the whole thing or parts of it, but you really have to give people permission to blast you.

Samantha Bee  34:48

I never understand why people can’t admit when they’re wrong. I love being wrong. Like when I had a show, people were felt very confident telling me when I was wrong.

Samantha Bee  35:20

To blast you. And then do people do it to the people take you up on the offer?

Judd Apatow  35:24

I mean, you never know if they hate it even more than they say. But I remember we were testing The Ben Stiller Show. And there was a sketch was a Cape Fear parody, and it was Eddie Munster, from The Munsters in Cape Fear. So there was a joke where you reveal it’s a fake trailer for the movie and, and Silla is doing Robert De Niro as Eddie Munster, basically. And suddenly, he appears, and he’s hanging upside down like a bat. And he’s, I think he’s reading the book. Are you there? God, it’s me, Margaret. And makes a reference to it. And the head of HBO, who was producing the pilot said to me, you have to cut that joke. No one’s gonna get that joke. And I’m like, I’m telling you, people are gonna get that joke. Okay. And I didn’t cut it. And then we had a test where there was like, 14 people behind like one way glass watching the show. And we watch them watch. And the executive is there. And I literally turn them go, here you go, get ready for the last dead silence.

Samantha Bee  36:34

Blank faces hatred, recognition that a joke even past their eyes.

Judd Apatow  36:40

Then on the way out, me and Ben are in the elevator and it was a bad focus group have an early cut. And then suddenly, Ben walks in the elevator with these like three young women who had just toured the new asphalt, the focus group discussion. They were just like, sorry.

Samantha Bee  37:02

Oh, God, do you watch people like would you put a movie out? Do you watch people watch it? Are you like one of those people? Do you sneak in the back and you’re like, I’m gonna watch people.

Judd Apatow  37:11

You have to do that, that’s the process you watch the movie with the crowd. And then they take 20 People from the crowd and they afterwards they chat with them and ask them what they think. And because everybody has been on you know master class or things they’ve been to film school, they have very specific opinion.

Samantha Bee  37:31

Very strong.

Judd Apatow  37:32

I have to remind myself like too little like Buddhist monks quarter smile all day. Just try to have the little corner smile going.

Samantha Bee  37:41

Okay, I did read that you love self help books? Is that true?

Judd Apatow  37:45

Love, addicted have hundreds of hundreds of self help.

Samantha Bee  37:52

Like a stack that you’re working through what’s on your nightstand?

Judd Apatow  37:58

Just so many. I mean, in my new offices, I keep like building more and more bookshelves because I just have so many. I always use the example I was uses. So I have to give up me to be loved by you. though. That was when when things fall apart.

Samantha Bee  38:15

Do you sound like books from the 70s that still holds true today? Those are incredible deal.

Judd Apatow  38:20

Love the old ones. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. I’ve read them. But now I feel like I know that sounds weird. But now I feel like I know everything. Like there’s nothing in a book I haven’t read in another book. And it really hasn’t become what should I pay attention to? To do any of this? Right? And really the only thing that I think works, there’s a book called The Untethered Soul by Michael singer. And his whole book is about staying open. Like you’re open, you’re open to ideas here. You’re not trying to make life anything’s like you’re not trying to control everything. You’re not reactive, you’re opened like a cylinder. And I actually think that’s kind of all you need, like be kind be open. Like the ROM das said, his whole thing was like, I am loving awareness. He says that in the Garry Shandling documentary. And he also says you don’t want to be in your head, you wanna be in your heart, like head is bad. Heart is good. So I tried to think of everything in terms of like two sentences. Like, I can’t process all the information, but if you just say be open, it kind of covers everything. If I’m angry, I’m not open if I’m being weird, you know, I’m not available and present, which is so hard to do. It’s the hardest thing in the world. But, but that’s easier than remembering everything I learned in 700 other books.

Samantha Bee  39:54

700 other books so just be like an open Canyon.

Judd Apatow  39:57

Loving, kind person who doesn’t Need anything from anyone? Like, I’ll give you an example. At the end of the year, I just thought, I think I know too many people. And I’m really getting neurotic about who I’ve talked to and who I’ve not talked to, and who’s checking in on me and who I’m checking in on and what was the last conversation and, like, I went on my text, and I meant to wish them a happy birthday. And I realized that the last text I sent them was happy birthday three years. I love like, now I can wish them happy birthday, because they’ll know I haven’t texted them in three years.

Samantha Bee  40:30

But they probably know, they do know, probably no, they do not.

Judd Apatow  40:34

I tried to give myself permission to not that that’s all unmanageable. And then I’m not mad at anyone else for not checking in with me. Because during COVID, I would be like, this has been going on two years, and this person has never checked in to see if I’m dead. Right? Like this is like a person who should be like, how are you doing during this? But then I realized, Oh, I’ve had 50 people, I haven’t done that too. Right. So I tried to give myself this year permission to just like to not be able to handle it, that it’s just too much. And if I’m going to be nice, if you contact me or I contact you, I’m gonna be nice. If anything slips through the cracks is nothing I can do. And I’m not going to be mad at you for not being around. And that sounds like I can I drop all of that weirdness.

Samantha Bee  41:24

It’s a good thing to be able to pick things up and let them lie. It’s such a good feeling. I think you just have grace and forgiveness. And you just go hey, man, I love you. I’ll see you in three years when it’s your birthday again, and I love you. And I think about you. Yeah, and I don’t always text you when I’m thinking about you.

Judd Apatow  41:46

It helped me lose a big hunk of my neurosis mountain because I realized that that was the thing that was really bothering me. Just feeling like I was fucking up with people and people were being weird with me. And then I kind of realized like, no one is everyone’s just doing the best they can.

Samantha Bee  42:04

Everyone’s just doing the best they can is true.

Judd Apatow  42:06

Can you just forgive everybody for everything and yourself? Right? That’s kind of what being open means to me. And so I’ve tried to just whittle it all down to just that.

Samantha Bee  42:18

Do you also have an ice bath?

Judd Apatow  42:21

Am I doing the cold plunge?

Samantha Bee  42:22

Do you have cold plunges in your life?

Judd Apatow  42:26

But I belong to a gym that had a cold plunge. And then my gym went out of business due to COVID so I haven’t plunged.

Samantha Bee  42:34

Okay, I just felt like that would be an accompaniment to being is nothing. Nothing opens you like.

Judd Apatow  42:41

Are you doing the cold plunge?

Samantha Bee  42:43

No, that’s the worst thing imaginable to me, but my husband is like, we need to plunge into cold water. And I’m like, that’s not my journey.

Judd Apatow  42:52

He’s going full whimoff?

Samantha Bee  42:55

Well, I, you mentioned rom das and I thought of Wim Hof as my accompany is my, you know, a soul brother.

Judd Apatow  43:03

Works the cold punch when I did it, it would put me in a good mood for like two hours, right? And, uh, why I think like your body just kind of is so in fighter flights, and then it ends and then gives you some dopamine or I just hate the idea that they go, you know, it’d be really good for you to freeze to death every day for five minutes. I don’t want to do things.

Samantha Bee  43:24

Yeah, you should come close to death. And then you’ll every single day, like when you’re cleaning yourself in the morning. So convenience, good mood for your wife, I’m like, do you need that? I’m very nice.

Judd Apatow  43:40

I’m fine with my level of inflammation.

Samantha Bee  43:44

You know, God wants us to be inflamed. He wouldn’t have given us all the ability to be so inflamed if he didn’t want that for us on some level.

Judd Apatow  43:51

I’m saying forever. Claim for a reason.

Samantha Bee  43:55

what’s so funny is I’m going to walk away from this conversation and forget and I’m going to forget everything. No, I’m probably in three days gonna go. Hey, man, just be open. Let the let this be water. Exactly. It goes in it comes out. And then I’m gonna go that’s from Judd. And then I’m gonna thank you in my brain. I want to thank you from afar. Talking to you. It was so fun. I love this so much.

Judd Apatow  44:20

I’ll be back.

Samantha Bee  44:24

Will you please cuz I feel like we have many more things to break down for other people.

Judd Apatow  44:29

You don’t know why every fourth episode is Judd.

Samantha Bee  44:34

Just be open about it. Just listen. You know what I mean? Just tune into our frequencies.

Judd Apatow  44:43

Have a plunge. Live your life.

Samantha Bee  44:46

Live your life. Thank you so much for this. Thanks for giving me thanks for giving me so much of your time. What an absolute delight talking to you.

Judd Apatow  44:55

Talk again soon.

Samantha Bee  45:02

That was Judd Apatow and I had no choice but to Google one thing he said, I did not know that Ann Coulter was friends with comedy people who in the world is inviting her to stuff. But it’s true. She was even at the Rob Lowe roast. I feel so dirty knowing that. Anyway, thank you so much to Judd Apatow. And good news, there’s more choice words with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like a rapid fire round of trivia questions based off my recent interview with Judy Blume. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts.

CREDITS  45:52

Thank you for listening to Choice Words which was created by and is hosted by me. We’re a production of Lemonada Media, Kathyrn Barnes, […] and Kryssy Pease produce our show. Our mix is by James Barber. Steve Nelson is the vice president of weekly content. Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittles Wachs and I are executive producers. Our theme was composed by […] with help from Johnny Vince Evans . Special thanks to Kristen Everman, Claire Jones, Ivan Kuraev and Rachel Neil. You can find me at @Iamsambee on Twitter and at @realsambee on Instagram. Follow Choice Words wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.