What to Keep, What to Leave 2024

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New year, same aunties. Like every year, Ku and Su are sitting down to reflect on what they want to bring with them into 2024 and what they’re saying goodbye to. Ku explains why she’s in her middle-fingers-up era of fashion. Afterward, Su drops a secret she’s been keeping from the team for months. Plus, some difficult but loving conversations about loss and trauma.

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Kulap Vilaysack, SuChin Pak

Kulap Vilaysack  00:10

Hi carters.


SuChin Pak  00:15

Thought you were just saying hi to me. I’m sorry yes, recording the podcast.


Kulap Vilaysack  00:19

Hi, this is what me does.


SuChin Pak  00:25

Every time that routine will never get old, it will kill every time.


Kulap Vilaysack  00:31

Carter’s welcome back, it’s the new year, but the same aunties.


SuChin Pak  00:35

Yeah, we’re the same.


Kulap Vilaysack  00:36

I’m Kuku Vilaysack.


SuChin Pak  00:38

I’m SuChin Pak, Ku, the holidays are over. We did it, we did.


Kulap Vilaysack  00:44

We did it, I’ve been waiting to get back into this coffin for a few months now. And it’s time it’s time, and we always do an episode around this time of the year where we talk about all the revelations, the self discoveries we’ve had, we look back. And we wonder what worked and what didn’t, right?


SuChin Pak  01:08

Yeah, and I think we established this years ago, since we’ve been doing this podcast since the late 90s. It just feels like it, podcast years.


Kulap Vilaysack  01:20

You’re right, it’s a different timeline for podcasts. You know, this whole idea of like, resolutions, I do, like the more introspective like, hey, like, goals are great. But like, what should I let go of? What should I keep? What should I let go of to make room for? What should I make sure to hold on to? I like the sentiments feel, feel very juicy, feel very nice you know, maybe because it’s a lot like what should I buy? What should I return?


SuChin Pak  01:53

That’s your feelings.


Kulap Vilaysack  01:56

As well, lifestyle. It’s tim, it’s time to do this annual, our annual what to keep what to leave, we’re going to talk about what we’re bringing with us in 2024. And what we’re tossing into the winds of the past what we’re throwing into our lomi and setting to grind.


SuChin Pak  02:11

Let’s get into it.


Kulap Vilaysack  02:16

All right, let’s talk about what we’re keeping, you know, and for me, I was like, Oh, I don’t know what to talk about. I don’t know what to talk about, when we do this. I’ve been so in the holiday mode, and now we’re getting out of it. But so I start there, I started with saying SuChin Pak, I’m keeping the November 1st deadline for Christmas shopping. I’m going to do it again next year.


SuChin Pak  02:36

Speak more speak more on that because I did a December one. And I feel the same way. So I’m wondering if we both landed on some, some revelations about putting an early deadline.


Kulap Vilaysack  02:48

I like it, because it just is like, I’m not I’m not in the fray of December. And this and I’ll talk about the details further in the show but like, I’ve been so busy SuChin to have tried to be scurrying around online or in the stores would have I think I would have ended me. I’m really being honest, like to have that just set aside. You know, and maybe maybe SuChin. And maybe the gifts weren’t as inspired, perhaps Su, but at the same time, who cares? Who cares? I really think at the end of the day, it was a form of self care.


SuChin Pak  03:29

Oh, that’s the headline of setting an early, get all the gifts done. You’re right, it is it, that is exactly everything. It is a form of self care from two admittedly shopaholics from two obsessive shoppers. It absolutely was self care. And we’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, for you, the holidays are packed because for many reasons, you are the default host in a lot of people’s lives. And your home is the default gathering place in a lot of people’s lives, there’s just it can’t be done.


Kulap Vilaysack  04:11

You can’t do all that and feel good about the holidays, and enjoy the holidays and have the cookie cook off. And the you know, place settings just so I can end with emerald now these are the things that you know, she is, as listeners know, has been walking since 10 and a half months and we haven’t been non stop since that point. non stop, gotta keep her life. Gotta she’s gotta let her explore. Get her let her play with the gravel, or touch the gravel, and then not in the mouth.


SuChin Pak  04:49

I was saying, put it in the mouth, and then we spit it out.


Kulap Vilaysack  04:54

We’re not at a place of spitting out yet, it’s still if it’s in the mouth, gotta get it, gotta go in, gotta fish it out. Hey, guys while she shakes her head, no, gotta get in there. Gotta get that gravel. And that’s where we am so, okay, so this is a new lifestyle as much as I can November 1st, and then I was done by your deadline. You know what I need help from SuChin Pak coming through.


SuChin Pak  05:22

Yeah, we have that help from each other, we have the help from the show from the people that dropped by you need that period, to sort of like just finish off the ones that need a little bit that you didn’t quite get right away. They’re just some people, you know, oh, I know exactly what I’m getting. So you need that, okay I love it.


Kulap Vilaysack  05:41

And then the other thing that I want to throw in and we’ll go because I think it kind of, it kind of connects to your keep, is, I’m going to keep this endorphin dressing that has been 2023 for.


SuChin Pak  05:54

Ku explain, explain to everyone what you mean by that.


Kulap Vilaysack  05:57

Okay, so I think it actually started after somebody who like I’ve got basics and staples up the ass like I was looking. I remember maybe maybe it was two years ago. What do I have black, gray, navy, quite so much of that. So much of that, I think it was a couple years back. I started getting into farm rio. It’s a Brazilian company, it’s only right. Endorphins, and that planted a seed for Lala.


SuChin Pak  06:30

That’s right I was like, and it grew. That tiny seed grew a jungle called lala.


Kulap Vilaysack  06:30

And it’s out all the time. But when I tell you and I like it, I like it, I like small talk Su, I like engaging with people on the streets in this manner. When I wear stuff from dressen Lala, it’s a conversation starter, traffic. We’re having conversations we’re having fun little talks with like point, lazy acres. This is your nightmare. But I’m engaging people on a surface level that is just so delightful. And on top of that this thing is because I feel great. It’s fun, it’s quirky.


SuChin Pak  07:11



Kulap Vilaysack  07:12

You don’t I mean, it’s.


SuChin Pak  07:13

Yes, I do I feel like I’ve always been somewhat of an endorphin dresser and I’ve just gotten weirder and weirder into it. As I’ve gotten older so I have


Kulap Vilaysack  07:23

This it right here, right here Su, you nailed it. I’m like, I am in my eccentric stage. It’s not eccentric, I don’t give a fuck. I literally don’t give a and middle fingers anymore.


SuChin Pak  07:37



Kulap Vilaysack  07:39

Yeah, that’s where I’m at. Feels really good. So I’m keeping that so tell me what you’re keeping.


SuChin Pak  07:44

Well, kind of along the lines of endorphin dressing. Just bear with me on this audio guys because I have a prop and I have to.


Kulap Vilaysack  07:54

Oh, here’s this prop, oh, boy oh my gosh, I’m really excited, I don’t I’m with bated breath I wait for what this prop is, cackling silently.


SuChin Pak  08:08

Okay, wait, can you hear the jingling?


Kulap Vilaysack  08:14



SuChin Pak  08:14

Can you hear? Are you hearing a jingle we show you what it is?


Kulap Vilaysack  08:19

What that jingle is guys.


SuChin Pak  08:21

I’m putting them on my feet. I’m keeping these shoes that I wear every single day.


Kulap Vilaysack  08:30

This is a huge explainer video everybody, Tiffany is losing her mind. So wow you’ve been late, I’m sorry no, not yet, no not yet Suchin Pak after so much protests, after so much.


SuChin Pak  08:49

Ridicule, gus it really killed to stain.


Kulap Vilaysack  08:52

She’s wearing crocs you shaking crocs at us.


SuChin Pak  08:57

But why? Why? What does it look like chain?


Kulap Vilaysack  09:00

That’s right for chain on them, they’re bone colored.


SuChin Pak  09:03

That’s right, it’s a bone colored mat ivory Croc platform okay with a mat chain. Just trim on that for a moment.


Kulap Vilaysack  09:13

Trim on that now look while while she’s talking. I want to let the listeners know what our team has all caps. In the meeting cheddar the, Tiffany goes goes HECK YEAH. OH MY GOD spilled over more. Keegan comes through with whoa huge, Tiffany comes back on and says this is the best day of my life ha ha ha and Keegan says no need to dream it’s a reality like this is this is truth here, this is truth. Wow, SuChin Pak, wow.


SuChin Pak  09:49

I want to.


Kulap Vilaysack  09:51

You have been lying, through omission, in our group.


SuChin Pak  09:55

No, no, I have been lying. I have been lying period lying and I I want to take you back. And I was doing some Christmas shopping on this damn site. And I came across these. I was like, huh I mean, the color I like it’s, I love a white shoe, any form of a white shoe. And then it’s the mat chain. And I was like, that’s fashion baby.


Kulap Vilaysack  10:26

Su I ordered that exact, exact pair .for Dana.


SuChin Pak  10:31

They came and I said, those are disgusting. That toe was not an adult toe, that’s not sophisticated toe, that’s an under toe toe that should be out on adult feet. But that met chain kept pulling me back, kept pulling me back. And so I would wear that, God dammit, they’re so comfortable. And so I’ve been wearing these things around town. First, let me just tell you Mike’s reaction is like, you look like a terrible cartoon. Like a Bozo the Clown cartoon, and that just egged me on. I said, don’t give me fuel to the fire. And I have been walking around in these things, traffic stop. Pete there we go out the window into stores. So he is my witness the other day, the three of us. I don’t even know where we were, yeah, the whole family we decided to go into this cute little like Bodega that just opened up, like a concept daga, if you will, and I went in and it was just like five indie girls in a band all working there with long flowy hair. And they all come over and they’re like, Oh my God, you’re Crocs and I look at Sony and I say I’m a phenom. I am a legend here, Barbara. Yet I have to tell you, keeping this under wraps from you, so that I could reveal it at this moment in time has been tough and I have felt bad, number one if you remember a while ago, Mike recorded me reacting to a soccer game that my son was in.


Kulap Vilaysack  12:07

Yes, I do recall that.


SuChin Pak  12:09

And he posted the video of it without my knowledge. And when I saw it, I said, Oh my God, you have to take that down. And he was like, it’s not. It’s good don’t worry I know. It feels embarrassing, but I promise and I was like, no, no, no, that’s not the reason, you have my crocs in the shot. You will have to crop out the crocs because Kulap doesn’t know that I’ve got crocs now I’m like waiting to keep it. So when you he was like, so he reformatted the video to crop out my crocs to keep this secret.


Kulap Vilaysack  12:40

Okay, the duplicity.


SuChin Pak  12:44

I mean.


Kulap Vilaysack  12:44



SuChin Pak  12:45

And it turns out, I feel fine. Turns out I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m comfortable with lying. I was I didn’t have any qualms about it wasn’t I had no qualms about it, many times afterwards laughing at you and your Crocs and your whatever a crock Tober while I had these on my little tootsies the whole time.


Kulap Vilaysack  13:14



SuChin Pak  13:15

While you said you’re part of the crock club or whatever the stupid thing is.


Kulap Vilaysack  13:20

Don’t even say whatever because I know you’re a member as well now you a little higher.


SuChin Pak  13:24

And I’m a member and the whole time, I have been cracking it.


Kulap Vilaysack  13:29

Predecessor Tiffany in the chat, she’s quoting you. I’m comfortable with lying SuChin Pak veteran journalist


SuChin Pak  13:36

I’m comfortable with lying in my crocs because my crocs are comfortable doing anything, even though. Take that to the tagline, let’s take that to Croc HQ. They’re so comfortable, you’ll even be comfortable lying.


Kulap Vilaysack  13:52

Oh, you say I’m so I apologize to our engineer Brian. I have screamed at in this mic. I screamed in this mic. When that was happening, I am so I’m so shocked. I’m so shocked. I’m delighted, but the lady doth protest too much and I I’ve learned I’ve learned a lesson. I’ve learned a lesson I’ve been fooled.


SuChin Pak  14:18

And you talk about endorphin dressing. Talk about it speak, the thing is endorphin dressing generally, is quite ugly. And I’m saying ugly in the sense of like, what is mainstream and I’m saying ugly as a woman, what is the male gaze? I’m taking crocs to another level. I’m taking it to the level of feminism [..] it saith your male gaze is not welcome it’s not valued, and I certainly didn’t ask for it. That’s what crock say, either to me like now that I’m a Crocker I’m a fucking motherfucking crocker.


SuChin Pak  15:10

Yeah, when you mail or like, oh, I’m like, thank you, now keep it moving. Keep it keep moving because I’m feeling a crock. And this ain’t have I yeah, I’m doing my crock walk.


SuChin Pak  15:26

I’m doing my crock walk for me, for my baby Ku. And for all my ladies, who say to the male gaze, middle fingers up. And that’s also endorphin dressing because that makes me high.


Kulap Vilaysack  15:41

Wow, to quote the Queen bey herself.


SuChin Pak  15:44

The ultimate, the ultimate Crocker.


Kulap Vilaysack  15:47

Oh, she’s cozy, she’s cozy.


SuChin Pak  15:52

She’s a knee high Special Edition crocs that we will never see the ugliest things in the world just telling everybody to crack off.


Kulap Vilaysack  16:03

It’s interesting because I have not felt invisible. Like I understand that women are age or have that feeling. And I don’t feel that way. And I think it’s like, Oh, why? Because you’re wearing crocs, huge Crocs and Home Depot platform with rocks oversized sweater that has a huge puffy print smiley face from lala land.


SuChin Pak  16:30

All you’re not gonna have a baby in this corner. Not in this corner, I don’t fit in that corner.


Kulap Vilaysack  16:46

Wow okay, Su, we’re about to make a hard right turn.


SuChin Pak  16:51

Well, guess what? I’m okay with it because I’m in my crocs now.


Kulap Vilaysack  16:55

Okay, here comes as hard right to the heart rate of what we’re going to leave behind. I think for both of us, Su, we record this a little earlier than when it comes out and so I’m coming off of 48 hours of celebrating the life of my beloved father in law, Bert Ackerman. And we had a a celebration of life ceremony in Orange County at his church where, you know, 100 plus people came. And then, just yesterday, we had his veterans honors, and he is being laid to rest at the Veterans Cemetery in in right off the 405 in LA. Had the 21 gun salute. I’m sorry, if I that’s not the right way to put it. And, and then we had just family over to our house is talking about hosting.


SuChin Pak  17:54

I mean, heavy lots of Lyle hosting as well.


Kulap Vilaysack  18:02

You know, and it’s been a couple months since he, he’s passed, but you know, seeing the niche well he’ll be laid formally to rest is, you know, it’s final Su it’s final. So I’m leaving behind a life without my father in law. And I don’t you know, I think we talked about it on pod as Emmys birthday was coming up, you know, hoping that he would make it to her birthday. And he did and passed away a couple weeks afterwards. His birth is a day before hers. So he made it to 79th year, I just want to say a few words of just like how, how great of a man he was I’ve known and entered the Aquaman family since I was 19 years old. And on that last day of his life in the hospital, I was able to tell him that just to thank him for being probably the kind of best sort of parental figure that I’ve ever had. And to tell them how much I love him, and how much he’s meant to me and to say how funny I think he is and I was listening to people talk about him at the memorial ceremony and just how he could be so serious, but there was this like side of him that was really like kind of a mischief maker you know and so of course he’s gonna be serious with like his kids, you know, with Scott with his Greg who passed away and Bethany but it’s like with me, you know, my personality is mischievous as well so my memories of him are really just like being across the table at like Thanksgiving or Christmas stuff and just like laughing and like I’ve there’s times where we would have been like crying, laughing but like, silently like crying laughing because we were like, honestly making fun of Linda are making fun of his beloved, his wife, his wife, Linda, who they worked together since they were 15 and 16. The two of them, you know, and he’s just a person that really taught me about loyalty and about showing up for the people who you love. This is a man who fought in Vietnam, was part of the National Guard afterwards who really believed in service. Somebody who his love language was helping his loved ones be moving for Scott when he got bought his first condo and like to wiggle Lake, putting down flooring for four months driving all the way from Orange County. And when he was younger, moving him from place to place he did. That’s, that’s what Burt did. And he was so capable like he did full, he did a full home renovation when they live back in Orange County, like moved to kitchen from one end to another but did it completely himself. And then when they retired to Payson, Arizona, he built that house himself. I’m talking decking, I’m talking, this is before, you know, people learning how to do things on YouTube and Tiktok like, he just was that guy, he knew how to not only take things apart, but to build things, you know and you know, I just hope, I think when we when we had his sister and a lot of her kids and their kids at the house over yesterday, I just thought, you know, Bert would love this, to have us all coming together like we did. He, he really would have, and you know how the pandemic was, and he got sick. It was really hard to come, it’s just been years, I don’t know, maybe DACA places we came together like that. But like, I felt him, you know, I felt him in us playing around and I felt him seeing me play with his sisters grandkids. That was really special, that was really, really special. We were so like, ideologically different in politics and religion in the sense that he’s religious and I’m not at all except for the religion of Christmas, as you all know. And by Christmas, you know, I mean, trees and Santa and cookie competitions.


Kulap Vilaysack  22:45

But he loved me.


SuChin Pak  22:48



Kulap Vilaysack  22:49

He loved me, and I loved him and so he lives on through Emerald birdie, yeah. That’s what I leave behind.


SuChin Pak  23:06

You know, it’s interesting, because I think that like, I think that you and your father in law and myself and my father in law, we have very similar relationships. And, you know, I think that your in laws can be, you know, just as triggering as your parents and you can have very difficult relationships, but there is a certain type of relationship that you can have with your in laws, that frees you from the pain that you had with your own parents, and gets to heal some of that with a parental figure that is not attached to that. And that is it for me, as well with my father in law like I think that there’s like.


Kulap Vilaysack  23:52

You mean our our avid listener, Jules Bender.


SuChin Pak  23:54

Our number one listener, Jules Bender, God has asked to our live show.


Kulap Vilaysack  23:59

All the way to Hollywood,


SuChin Pak  24:01

I begged him not to come very was to an Uber from Santa Barbara. But I think that like, at least for me, the ability to be in each other’s presence and be very light about it and hold everything very light is something that I really treasure like I don’t like when I sit with my parents is a different type of feeling and it’s a different type of dynamic there’s a heaviness there’s a an in good and bad ways, here’s a history, you know, like with him I get to sort of make have been able to make it more as like a formed adult. So it is a different relationship, and I my brain won’t even let me take in what you’re saying.


Kulap Vilaysack  24:46

I understand.


SuChin Pak  24:47

I understand what you’re feeling and it’s a it’s such a such an incredibly God I mean, just the word is just very healing relationship. And that sounds so weird just say that about your in laws, but it can be, you know, especially for us who have had very difficult traumatic relationships with our parents.


Kulap Vilaysack  25:10

I think, ya know, you’re crystallizing something for me right now, it was healing, it was it was steady, it was consistent.


SuChin Pak  25:20

You didn’t have a father figure even like.


Kulap Vilaysack  25:24

Well, no, I mean, my dad growing up was, you know, I’m sorry that I’m a competitive person that hands out awards, I guess at all times. But between the two, yeah, my mom and my stepdad, my stepdad was yeah, a very steady presence. He’s not as much in my, in my life now. We’re not in any feud. It’s just just what it is, and you know, and meanwhile, my mom will be here has been here for it’s been a long time. And it’s been perfect, great and honestly, Su, I want to give a shout out to my mom, and give her some flowers. I rarely do this, but she’s been a real champ. This long trip and that is accustomed to be here for like, a couple months. She’s a little Snowbird but this trip, she’s been so helpful with like, walking the dogs and like, just helping around the house in a way that like, for my mom guys, is I’m saying it’s like it’s been nice. It’s been a nice trip. And she’s been really helpful and so that part’s good. That part’s good but so you know we’ll have maybe I’ll give my mom award this time as well I Mandy I guess it just handout ribbons here and there you know.


SuChin Pak  26:40

if ribbon so you’re talking about you you’re the only person and friend group because y’all do it. I don’t know you’re keeping the trophy business single handedly alive. I don’t know any group of people that buys more custom trophies


Kulap Vilaysack  26:58

Yeah, and I don’t know if you know a person who when Matthew twice now has made up a bunch of awards, and he’s said you can keep one for yourself and has an I have kept one every time I’ve awarded myself every time Sujin fuck I give one to me.


SuChin Pak  27:21

That’s like my personal handedly keeping what a business that should be dead.


Kulap Vilaysack  27:26

Yeah, we should have moved on. We’re in a digital age and yeah, age and yeah, we are.


SuChin Pak  27:34

You can comment you can like things you can repost. And yet these fools are ordering truly plastic personalized trophies from there’s no metal fancy trophies from hopefully somewhere, you know, in this country, keeping that industry now.


Kulap Vilaysack  27:58

Don’t know, not going to follow up soon.


SuChin Pak  28:03

Let’s assume the best that’s also let’s keep that 2024.


Kulap Vilaysack  28:18

So what are you leaving?


SuChin Pak  28:19

Well, I leaving behind, what is another turn, hypervigilance.


Kulap Vilaysack  28:28

I know that term, I’ve lived I live that term. Very familiar.


SuChin Pak  28:32

Yeah, you know.


Kulap Vilaysack  28:33

For those who aren’t for those who aren’t what is it?


SuChin Pak  28:36

I know this term but I didn’t really soak in until recently. And for our listeners, you and me and Naomi had an in person lunch over the holidays and I can’t remember the last time I saw Naomi in person and I mean I think the last time we saw each other was maybe live show.


Kulap Vilaysack  29:00

Yeah, that sounds right.


SuChin Pak  29:02

That’s a long time. That was in May, that was in May. And so I don’t see we don’t get together in a room very often either. And I had a lot of like anxiety before and as I always joke on here afterwards, you know it takes me two three days to really recuperate like, I mean not to sound like a like a Montecito princess but I mean I spent all day Monday at my body works persons just trying to get my body back in shape.


Kulap Vilaysack  29:38

Well also Su, you are going from and this is you know we’ve all talked about the chicken pox retirement. She’s driving to LA she has lunch with the three of us we have lunch and then you are going to a birthday dinner so you’re wham bam thank you.


SuChin Pak  29:53

Course because I’m only there for less than 24 hours you know so I’m when I’m packing it in but I just want to say I’m pocket it in, with my nearest and dearest.


Kulap Vilaysack  30:03



SuChin Pak  30:03

I don’t do bullshit, I’m setting this up because I think that people think social anxiety, or anxiety around that is necessarily a roomful of strangers, or even a roomful of a lot of people. But for me, that social anxiety is in can be in an intimate setting it can be with just to have, you know, people who I feel completely myself with. And so I was sort of thinking about this, I was like, wow, there’s a difference between the life that I want to live, right and I joke about being in a coffin, and then there’s the lady’s never leaving her house. There’s like, a fine line between that, and I’m like, I get that I’m not I don’t want to be in front in a roomful of strangers I get that, but what is this anxiety around being with people that I could be in my granny panties with? And they wouldn’t fucking blink? Like what, what is?


Kulap Vilaysack  31:04

I assume you are even now in your granny panties.


SuChin Pak  31:07

I’ve always I don’t want to hide that. Like, these are people that that know, online you know? Of course, I did want to wear my Crocs and couldn’t do it to lunch, anyway.


Kulap Vilaysack  31:18

No, you’re in so.


SuChin Pak  31:19

That’s was stressful, yeah so I was thinking about that I’ve been thinking about that, ever since, and I started to kind of look into this hypervigilance like, basically, it’s a trauma response it’s very, very common and to quote this article, it’s being in a state of high alert constantly tense and quote on guard and always on the lookout for hidden dangers, both real and presumed. And so I thought that was interesting. It went on to say that hypervigilance can make safe situations, people in places feel threatening, and even familiar surroundings and people can be an issue, because hypervigilance can be in safe situations can be with the people that you’re very comfortable with can be with your husband can be with your children.


Kulap Vilaysack  32:14

Well, yeah, my hyper vigilance comes from my mother. And when I enter a room, it’s a lot of work. And it’s exhausting, I’m taking the time, everyone’s temperature.


SuChin Pak  32:22

And even with people that you are very comfortable that your closest friends.


Kulap Vilaysack  32:27

Always comes back to Pat. That’s what I had to do with her because I never knew what or what was what fights were happening with my father, her and father had to know. And so it’s actually starts there for me. And so I am saying that I relate, but it’s so much work to it’s a lot of noise, it’s so exhausting and I would say that my the last decade has been trying to not do that as much.


SuChin Pak  32:56

As it takes to least downgrade hyper vigilance to just visual.


Kulap Vilaysack  33:06

It’s the old habits die hard.


SuChin Pak  33:08

No, I mean, yeah, this is actually just, this is the brain formation. It literally is a physical. And I mean, it’s not.


Kulap Vilaysack  33:17

But you can feel into that, right? Because I know a little bit about your background.


SuChin Pak  33:20

No, I didn’t, yeah, I know where it comes from an every certainly woman and certainly any person that has felt marginalized or abused in their life, knows what it feels like to walk into an elevator bank with a stranger in there. And you’re like, this could be my death coffin, or getting in a car in a parking lot in broad daylight, and coming in. And my first is to lock the door. As soon as I get in, I lock the door, I look my seat behind me like it just, we all know that so I understood the hypervintelage was around that I didn’t understand the hypervintelage even around safe situations that that that doesn’t turn off. I don’t think I was that way before. I always had this really tight group of friends in New York, where outside of that I felt always vigilant and hyper vigilant. But that felt almost normal and warranted and you could justify that, but when I was with my tight group of friends, I was I never felt this kind of exhaustion. And this is a new thing for me. And it’s a puzzling thing for me because again, now my world is shrinking, because it gives me anxiety to even see my closest friends. And so I’m looking at this and I’m going huh, this is this is this can’t be in the right direction, and I was reading about this and it said, for people with hyper vigilance. This is I’m quoting again, this article home can feel like the safest spot to be but getting outside of your comfort zone is essential that it’s necessary to push back against the restrictions of hyper vigilance. And I was looking into this more. And it’s basically every time you give into that anxiety of hyper vigilance, your brain gets rewarded. And it releases endorphins and happy hormones. And so what it does is it reinforces that behavior that as soon as the hyper vigilance alarm goes off, if you listen to it, you feel good.


Kulap Vilaysack  35:21

Oh, yeah.


SuChin Pak  35:22

But if you keep doing it, then your brain starts to form around that concept of like, I can’t go anywhere, nowhere is safe but being at home, I want to leave this behind and I know that this is a monster. I know that this requires some professional help, which I really am resisting right now. So I think I have to just kind of build towards that. I know that when I have a weekend of the closest people in my life, the people that I love and that support me, like, what part of me have I not exposed to you? Over the decades that we’ve been doing this podcast?


Kulap Vilaysack  36:07

Yeah, since the 20s.


SuChin Pak  36:09

Like, what am I hiding peeing in my pants? What am I hiding?


Kulap Vilaysack  36:13

That we started there Su, I don’t know, […] hiding anything.


SuChin Pak  36:20

What I have to move from is that, like, I have control over this, that there’s something wrong with me that I’m making these kinds of choices that you know, that I have.


Kulap Vilaysack  36:30

This is the trick about hyper vigilance is the way we manifested differently. Like what I had to stop going, because home was not safe for me ever. I’ve had to say, and not even the not so distant past, I’ve had to tell myself, like you’re safe now, that happened in the past. That is not your reality right now, you are safe, you’re safe with your husband, you’re safe with your friends, you’re safe with like, but I am tapping into what you’re saying. And I really appreciate you sharing this. But the trap is for someone who’s hyper vigilant, because it’s always like you’re you’re protecting yourself from getting hurt. So then you take on so much, right. So then you start to sell flagellate? What you’re just describing those thoughts. It’s very, it’s like, because you’re not doing the thing. That you’re, you’re not protecting yourself enough, it’s sort of pointed.


SuChin Pak  37:26

Like, you’re stuck, there’s something wrong with you.


Kulap Vilaysack  37:30

So it’s talking about like the hyper vigilance of just giving an example of what you’re like, you know, if someone were to attack us because you you wouldn’t do this. You didn’t look up, you didn’t you didn’t scan, you did it, you take so much ownership of a lot of things you can’t control, it’s very controlling. I think also just, you know, giving yourself like, you recognize it, I’m here to support you and feel through this. But also like to not be so hard on yourself. You know, we talked about this one Mohandro was here, you shared so much to have this sort of like shaking finger, I do too. You know that you you’re not you’re not, you’re not meeting expectations, like that’s just so hard.


SuChin Pak  38:14

Yeah and the shaking finger the I think the reason why we do it to the to the degree you know, and to the to the viciousness is because it, if I take the blame for what is wrong, then I can conceivably control it.


Kulap Vilaysack  38:32

It’s a dance, that i i so, so important to be personal, responsible? Beat that drum over again, like, yeah, I will tend to my side of the fence, I have to be responsible for stuff. But there’s just they’re also things that like, I literally can’t control. And it’s hard for me sometimes to designate which is which. And there’s a lot of tension there to write like, because, yeah, like, it comes up I’m just saying that I agree with you, and I understand it, it comes up, it comes a lot up for me, it’s like okay, well, I can’t, that I can’t will. And that I can’t you know, we can do our best things and try to set ourselves up for success. But there are factors that are out of our control and that’s really hard that letting go is really hard. It’s really hard not to letting go.


SuChin Pak  39:28

The letting go and the forgiveness is really hard and then doing it again is really hard and not beating yourself up for doing it again is really hard. Like this work is like it’s a life time process. So I’ve been thinking about this a lot just kind of sitting with it and not putting too much pressure. Right not because like the first thing to do I was just like looking up like best PTSD therapist, and I was like,no, I’m never gonna do that, right I’m not going to do that right now. So what I’m saying, and I, as always, lost it today on this damn dog. This damn dog, I lose it at least once a day and I when I tell you a rage that bird like it could pop my eyeballs out of my head like I get so mad. This dog will come into my office, go into my bag, pick out the thing, right? It’s usually a really expensive makeup product or serum or something and run out with it as I’m screaming no, no, drop it, and he does this every single day. I have yelled at him, and then I’ve locked him out to try to teach him a lesson and he’s sitting out there and he gets upset. And then he’s like happy and then I feel bad. And I laugh and I let him back in I’m I give him hugs. I give them a little treat. Mike laughs he’s like you too odd couple just get a room, what is going on in there all day long you’re in and out of there in a rage Ku, like I’m not gonna the book has been written every meditation book, Buddha book has been written as the biggest cliche on the earth. This dog is my brain is my hyper vigilance. I was like, I treat this dog like I do all of the shitty thoughts that come into my brain. I feel bad I hug it and then I let it back in and then it does it again and then when it does it a second time I everything is notched up. And I was like, that’s funny, that’s funny. Today I was actually like you’re funny. You my friend are going to be my fucking Buddha, I’m gonna be a fucking


Kulap Vilaysack  41:51

He’s your teacher.


SuChin Pak  41:52

Buddha teacher person. Are you out of your mind?


Kulap Vilaysack  41:56

Yeah, this is all really shit. I’ve never seen anyone I assume that’s what really me is about. Now like who who rescued you who I know he wasn’t you.


SuChin Pak  42:07

No  he definitely wasn’t downgraded from Montecito.


Kulap Vilaysack  42:09

Well, look, I like this perspective. I like this perspective, we’ve come through. I love it, I love this damn dog. Wow I love this, I love to see where this where this goes how this grows. I love to write the the screenplay.


SuChin Pak  42:27

Called Marley and Me too.


Kulap Vilaysack  42:28

Do it, that’s all for today Carter’s Happy New Year. We hope this year brings you everything you’re hoping for, and thank you for listening, I can hardly believe it’s been four years of ATC, I’m reading that and I’m shocked.


SuChin Pak  42:45

Okay, yeah, four years. Always, there’s extra doses of ATC everywhere up subscribe to our newsletter where, where we talk about all the things that we’re obsessed with, you can subscribe to the link in our show notes or in our bios. It’s all there, and it’s honestly just a fun diary entry from your favorite aunties, so there it is. Thanks so much you guys. Happy New Year, bye


Kulap Vilaysack  43:13



SuChin Pak  43:18

There’s more Add To Cart with Lemonada Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like where we tell you about the last item we bought or returned and why subscribe now in Apple podcasts.


Kulap Vilaysack  43:31

Add To Cart is a production of Lemonada media. Our producers are Keegan Zima and Tiffany boy Brian Castillo is our engineer.


CREDITS  43:38

There’s more ADD TO CART with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like where we tell you about the last item we bought or returned and why. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts. Add To Cart is a production of Lemonada Media. Our producers are Kegan Zema and Tiffany Bouy. Brian Castillo is our engineer. Theme music is by Wasahhbii and produced by La Made It and Oh So Familiar with additional music by APM music. Executive producers or Kulap Vilaysack, SuChin Pak, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and Stephanie Wittels Wachs. Be sure to check out all the items we mentioned today on our Instagram at @AddToCartPod. Follow Add to Cart wherever you get your podcasts or listen at free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.

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