Double Trouble
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Description
This week you get double the advice because Jaime’s friend Mary joins her for a grab bag episode of your questions! They advise a woman considering cheating on her husband as revenge for his infidelity, discuss what to do when you feel like you and your partner are sexually incompatible, talk about how to handle a draining friendship, and more.
FYI: Tell Me What to Do contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.
Please note, this show is hosted and produced by a team that does not have any clinical or other mental or physical health training. If you are having a health or mental health crisis or emergency, please contact 911. For non-emergency mental health and addiction needs, try https://www.samhsa.gov for national and local resources.
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For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit www.lemonadamedia.com/show/tmwtd
Transcript
SPEAKERS
Anonymous Caller, Jackson, Mary, Jaime Primak Sullivan
Jaime Primak Sullivan 00:00
Everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody. You get to cheat. You get to cheat. We all get to cheat.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Women want to smash.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I know what Anal is, but I’m not brave enough to try it.
Mary
Give it a go and be a little adventurous.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It is scary.
Mary
Ferocious.
Mary
You got to take a beat. You got to take a beat.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Hello, everybody, and welcome TELL ME WHAT TO DO Podcast. I am your host, Jaime Primak Sullivan. And I’m so grateful that you are here. I feel like there’s so much going on. Jackson is here with me, say hi.
Jackson
Hi.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, just so they know you’re here.
Jackson
Right.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So we took down Christmas, and put all the furniture back because you know, you move furniture to make room for trees and decorations and things. And for some reason your house looks so empty, right? When you take Christmas down, it’s like depressing.
Jackson
Well, you’ve had two other holidays prior to Christmas that have been decorated for and now you have nothing till Valentine’s Day. If you’re even going to decorate for that
Jaime Primak Sullivan
True story. It’s interesting to me how you look around your house. And even though the furniture is in the exact place it was in for nine months and like nothing’s gone. Nothing. You know, it feels a little empty. It just feels a little empty. So anyway, such as life and now we can start the countdown for the next Christmas because for those of us that love the holiday, we know it’s coming but I have birthdays to get through. So Jackson January is a big month in the Sullivan house.
Jackson
Right.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
We have max on the 14th Olivia on the 24th and Michael on the 28th. One Capricorn, two Aquarius and three birthdays. Fun fact, Charlie was actually due January 4, but came early. So I would have had all January’s in this house. And it’s so hard when you have kids who have birthdays, like right after the holiday. Because it’s like what do you get them? You’ve literally gotten them. Everything you can get them.
Jackson 02:18
You just got to keep half of the Christmas presents hidden until the birthday.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, I actually did. So what happened was I ordered Olivia this outfit that she had her eyes on. And it came, but it came like the day before Christmas. And I was like I’m not wrapping this. I’m saving it for her birthday. And Max plays a game on his computer called Roblox and he just wants Roblox money. What I think I’m going to start doing and they won’t appreciate it now is I think I’m going to start putting $50 in their bank account for their birthdays and just saying you’ll appreciate it when you want to, you know, a car or a whatever, you know, because they don’t need anything. They just got everything.
Jackson
Right.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Jackson, I want you to know that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. And I want you to know that every single time I say out loud “I need to clean out my refrigerator” it is part of my insanity. Every day I say “I need to clean out the refrigerator.” And every day I shove more shit into the refrigerator.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And that’s something that the longer it takes, the worse it gets.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Facts. So I once again, need to clean out my refrigerator.
Jackson
I can help you do that if you want.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh, you’re so sweet. But that’s not what you get paid for. You are not a cleaning guy. But thank you that is very sweet for you to offer. Now you could talk to me while I’m cleaning out my fridge. But you’re not going to help me clean out the refrigerator. We certainly have enough business stuff that we could talk about. But I am leaving for New Jersey. And if I don’t clean out the refrigerator, I will come home and the ham will start talking to me. Because at this point, I feel like the Christmas ham should be thrown away.
Jackson 04:06
Oh definitely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It’s not Jags. Can I interest you in a ham sandwich?
Jackson
No, thanks.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So I was just talking on CAWFEE TALK about whether you can love somebody but you’ve only known a short amount of time.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
How old are you?
Jackson
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Me too. So we’re the same age. I’m exactly 20 years older than you. Holy Schmidle.
Jackson
That’s crazy.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Have you ever been in love?
Jackson
Yes.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh, really?
Jackson
Yes.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to respond that way.
Jackson
It’s okay.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It’s just really cute.
Jackson
Am I currently in love? No. So…
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I feel like we spend every day together. If you were currently in love, I feel like I would know.
Jackson
I think so.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Or at least have an inkling that you might be seeing one.
Jackson
I have an aura about me that you would recognize.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
When you’re in love?
Jackson
Exactly.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I love that. Wait, so you.. Was that your first love the one you’re referring to?
Jackson
Yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Do you still have love for her?
Jackson
No.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Woah. Okay. There was no hesitation there, folks. It was crystal clear.
Jackson
Very easy answer.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, I said “Do you still have love for her?” Okay. Guys, that’s gonna be a no. You know, so I was just talking about like, can you love someone that you haven’t known very long? And I think you absolutely can.
Jackson
I agree.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I think there’s different degrees of love. Certainly like, what you feel loving someone after a few months is not what people who have been married 53 years feel. Certainly what I felt for Michael after six months wasn’t what I felt the first time I held Olivia in my arms. I mean, there’s just different kinds of love. But I give love away like confetti. Take it all. I feel like I love everybody. Do you want to hear some exciting news about the vaccine?
Jackson
Definitely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
My girlfriend is a nurse. She got her first dose. And then she got her second dose. And they did an antibody test on day two, no antibodies, day four, no antibodies, day six, no antibodies, day eight, antibodies. And she has never had COVID. Okay, so the vaccine worked, yes.
Jackson 06:13
For her.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And I think it will work for most people.
Jackson
As long as you don’t have an allergic reaction or something.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right. So, you know, again, obviously, I’m not a scientist or a doctor. So don’t listen to me. Absolutely do not listen to me. Speak to your doctor. But it was a big celebration for her on Facebook because she’s exposed to so much as a nurse. And she does have peace of mind now. If her PPE slips, if her mask you know, if she needs to take her mask down for a second to catch her breath. Like, she doesn’t have that fear. She still has to be careful. And she still needs to be careful because she may catch something else and give it to her patient. You know, she’s still careful. But she was just like, people can’t understand what the last year has been like for first responders and for.
Jackson
Know what?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Doctors and nurses and no.. You cannot. We cannot. And they you know, they just deserve…
Jackson
The vaccine.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah. Well, they deserve to catch their breath.
Jackson
Yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
At the very least.
Jackson
They deserve a long vacation once it’s all over.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
They sure do. Some of these people are working like 6 days straight, 10 days straight.
Jackson
They got like scars from the goggles and stuff or the masks and everything.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah, they need. What can we do for them? I don’t know. But did you know that our mayor of Birmingham, Woodfin. Is in the hospital?
Jackson
I saw that.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
With COVID.
Jackson
I think COVID pneumonia.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And he’s 34 and healthy.
Jackson
Yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
He better get better. We need our mayor. I mean, even if you didn’t vote for him, you don’t want it. You know what I mean? Like, we need our mayor. Come on, buddy. All right. Well, we have a very special guest on the podcast today. I’m so excited and grateful that she’s agreed to participate. And those of you who know me, know my love for Mary. We’ve been friends for years. And she was on JERSEY BELLE she was that “[UNCLEAR] on JERSEY BELLE. And Mary is a widow and has three children. Grown children. Well, mostly grown 23 and 25. I would say that’s grown. They still feel like babies to me, but they’re grown. And she has a lot of insight to like, my life and life in general and my marriage. And so I’m just really glad she’s here. So let’s get this party started.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 08:58
I am so excited to be joined by my bestie Mary, and she is here this week visiting because she has the coveted antibodies. Yes, Mary was sick with COVID in New Jersey for weeks, which we don’t like we actually hate. But what we do like, are the antibodies.
Mary
And the ability to see friends and family travel and feel like a person. So just a little while, at least anyway.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Let me ask you a question, when you have COVID and you know you’re sick? Are you thinking about the fact at all like at least I’ll have an antibody.
Mary
No, that’s the last thing that was on my mind. Just get me through the day. God please tomorrow, let it be better, less symptoms. And towards the end. You start thinking whoa, wait. Soon as my senses come back, and I don’t have symptoms. I have those things they call antibodies and I can leave this out and see my friend.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And it does feel a little more, you call it COVID cocky. You do feel a little cool.
Mary
I did. As soon as I realized “Hey, wait a minute, I can get on a plane without so much anxiety.” I was a little COVID cocky. I was even in the airport coming to see you. I was like starting yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 10:09
Yes. It’s cool. I mean, like, obviously nobody wants COVID but knowing that you’ll have a few months of like reprieve of anxiety reprieve, which I think the hardest part, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say the hardest part about COVID, for so many of us is the unknown anxiety of will I get it?
Mary
Yes. well said. The reprieve from anxiety.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yes. The reprieve from anxiety. So Mary and I met years ago when I was a publicist for Wayne Brady and she was working with Dougie Fresh and we met at, were we at the Apollo? No?
Mary
BB Kings.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Thank you. We were at BB Kings in what city?
Mary
in Manhattan in New York.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Manhattan.
Mary
It was second Street.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yes, and Wayne was performing. And he invited Doug to come do like a beatbox cool thing for him because Wayne can freestyle over anything.
Mary
During his improv, like something that was like who’s lying on the road?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah. Something like that, kind of yes. And Mary and I met and sometimes you just meet someone, and you’re just like “Okay, so this is my sister forever and for the rest of my life.” And that really, truly is, like what it was, I would say it was a love at first sight.
Mary
We were clowning, and we had so much fun. Even Doug mentioned it to me. He was like “Y’all clicked. You guys really clicked.” I was like “Yeah” I felt like I knew you forever,
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Forever.
Mary
In fact, like, when we were singing songs.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I don’t ever really remember before that, like I do, but I don’t.
Mary
We were on email. We were on email a couple of times about a couple of things. And then we met at that show.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah. And that was it. It was just, and I so Mary says, she always says I love to laugh at her pain. I don’t. What she doesn’t understand is I’m never laughing at her pain. I’m laughing at her reaction. She has the best. Okay, I have to tell you a story. We were in DC one time or maybe Vegas. Where was the escalator?
Mary 12:23
New Orleans.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, so I don’t know.
Mary
We’ve been around the world?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, we were in New Orleans one time for a show. And Mary was wearing this beautiful black cotton. Like long dress.
Mary
It’s like a maxi dress. I don’t know.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And she’s on the escalator. And the dress gets caught in the escalator.
Mary
At the bottom of the escalator.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, so the escalator is moving and I’m walking and she’s like “Uhh, J?” and I turn around and she’s stuck in the escalator, and I’m fucking crying.
Mary
She’s not just crying. See, Jamie can react but she can also react. She’s crying. She’s laughing and she’s getting ready to film me. She’s not running to my rescue. She didn’t look to her left or her right. And can anybody help my she’s like, hold up. Wait a minute. This is the moment so she’s laughing. You’re okay, hold on. Let me get this.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Let me take a video and she’s like “Can you get me out of the escalator, please?” Meanwhile, we finally get her unstuck. She deals with the management they hook her up.
Mary
I made them pay for my dress.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yes, you should have. That could have been bad. Very dangerous. Anyway. So I’m so excited to have Mary on this podcast with me because we have so much fun cutting up and we love to tell people what to do. So this is basically like a dream come true. But so we have a bunch of questions from you guys, which is really exciting. But before we get to the first question, we’re gonna take a quick break. So we’ll be right back.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And we’re back.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 14:13
Let’s get to it. Our first question comes from a listener named Florinda. She writes:
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Hi, Jaime. I’ve been married for 25 years. And two years ago, my husband told me he had sexual relations with a co-worker.” I love Florinda. She said relations. “Needless to say, I was devastated. I wanted to leave but decided to stay in my marriage and make it work. Do you guys have any insight on how I can move on from this? I actually at times feel as though I should have an affair maybe to hurt him like he hurt me. Ladies, tell me what to do.”
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, well, first of all, Florinda. I like the way you think. Because I’m gonna tell you right now I am Petty Betty. And if you cheat on me, I’m not leaving you. I have made it crystal clear. Have I not told you? I’m not leaving Michael for sexual infidelity. If you want to go get a blowjob or you want to do whatever you want to do you go out right ahead and do it. But as far as I’m concerned, you have now changed the rules to this marriage. The rules have been changed. They’re not just changed for you. They’re changed for all players in the game.
Mary
That’s how that works.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay? That means. Everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, right? That means you get to cheat. you get to cheat, you get to cheat. We all get to cheat. That’s it, as far as I’m concerned.
Mary
Not years down the line after that infidel.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
No, you can’t heal and repair and build trust. And then now that is some next level petty shit though.
Mary
Petty Mercury, the champion.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
If you literally become Phoni Braxton. And you like play it like you are really on. Oh my god, and then you cheat. Now that’s next level. You can’t do that. What you got to do is cheat. There’s a window. An acceptable cheating window. I think it’s a year.
Mary 16:05
A year?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You don’t think?
Mary
That’s a long time.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, cuz you got to get over the madness.
Mary
That’s true.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Like, you got to get comfortable with the idea because people who are not cheaters. It’s not natural for them to cheat. They don’t want to cheat. So I’m just saying some people. Okay, maybe the window is..
Mary
Retaliation cheating.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh, so you think like three months?
Mary
I mean, yeah. It’s just like “Hey, UPS guy. Like them socks.” You know what I mean? I’m like “Hey, that brown looks good on you.” Let me get that back.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Let me get that package.
Mary
Yeah. Let me get that.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I mean, I’m super into it. Okay, first, I want to say in all seriousness, kudos to you for deciding to stay in your marriage, okay. I don’t want to put anybody on blast. But I would say there are three people in this room. At least one has stayed in the marriage after a type of infidelity. Okay, it is not easy to do the work.
Mary
I could admit that. I have.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay.
Mary
Yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You stayed.
Mary
Absolutely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And you stayed because you had three beautiful children.
Mary
Because I had three beautiful children and I didn’t see it as a I mean, it felt like a betrayal to me, but it wasn’t the end of the world. It wasn’t we had some like we had a whole life we had a whole the family, the business, the holidays. And I love to be on that stupid thing. And even later in life, we were like we were young and we were still figuring shit out. And even if we weren’t young it’s not the end of the world to me.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It’s not the end of the world to me either. And I know there are some people out there who say that cheating is the line for them like they cannot come back from it.
Mary
A separate family. That’s different.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Somebody else claim independence and shit? You can’t, I can’t get a call from somebody who’s like “I live in Philly, I’m Mrs. Sullivan. We got two kids” Now you got to go, go live in Philly. But, I said it my meant it and I still mean it and I know a lot of people like think I say it to be edgy or whatever. No, I really mean it. I love Michael wholeheartedly. He is the leader of this family. He is my partner in this life. We have three beautiful children. Monogamy is not natural, it is manmade, it is institutionalized. And insecurities are real, boredom is real, dry patches are real like I get..
Mary 18:29
Attractions are real, you know? It is what it is.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
The devil is real. Let’s be honest. So you know what I mean? Let me tell you this. Most likely him cheating, women cheat because they have to men cheat because they can. So let me just say that most likely him cheating on you. Could it be because he felt neglected? Sure. And if so, don’t you want to fix that? Don’t you want to like let the man you love know that you want to pour into him and like, work on that and if he cheated because he can? Like, alright, bro, like you had your thing. You had your one off. Now, like you need to get your shit right. You know, and I’m proud of you for working on your marriage. As far as moving on from it. I do get the whole like nod like we got to be even. Eye for an eye. So if you really feel that way, cheat, it’s fun. You’re gonna love it. And I’m here for it. I’d be the publicist for cheating in moderation. Okay, I would. Alright, question number two. This next question comes from an anonymous caller. Let’s take a listen.
Anonymous Caller
“Hi, Jaime. My partner and I are pretty sexually incompatible. But every other aspect of our relationship is incredible. I feel like my sex drive is way higher than his is. And I’m often left feeling unfulfilled when he doesn’t reciprocate or initiate as often as I would like. Jaime, tell me what to do.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
How the fuck did y’all get my question for me to me? Just kidding. Mary?
Mary 20:14
Wow. Wow, okay.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Let’s break that down.
Mary
I think that’s kind of common.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You do? Well, I think yes.
Mary
I’ve heard this before.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I think a lot of marriages go through phases where they feel sexually incompatible. This is why affair sex is the best sex, because it is exactly what you are both looking for. And it can only be done when you can sneak away or you know what I mean? So you already know what it is when you get there. Marriage, that’s not a thing. You have life and bills and kids and it’s like “Am I gonna have sex tonight? Or do I really want to watch Sex in the City for the 85-zillion time?” I should probably do that. I should probably, you know, like. So, I do think marriages go through different phases of being. Were you and B sexually compatible?
Mary
Yes, very much so.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Always.
Mary 21:11
Always.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Same appetite?
Mary
Ferocious. Yeah, absolutely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Bragger.
Mary
I mean.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Bragger. Okay, I will say this in a very honest way. I struggle very much, because I feel like Michael and I are sexually incompatible. And when you say every other aspect of our relationship is incredible. I legit, could have written that. Like, I don’t mean to put them on blast. But like, I really could have written that. My sex drive is way higher. I’m also 13 and a half years younger. But it isn’t his sex drive. That’s not accurate. It’s his comfort level with aggression. like Michael was raised in a way..
Mary 22:03
That comes with yeah..
Jaime Primak Sullivan
How he was raised? Very you know, you never push yourself on a woman, you let her let you know. She will let you know. Yes. And so he was always taught like, it’s not your place to push that. If she wants that she’ll let you know. So he’ll never say no to me. Never. But I always got to be the one to ask the question. And I do understand. So in through years of on and off of therapy. My therapist is like “Is it so bad, that you have to officiate it?” Is it the worst thing if you have this amazing life? And I will say that when one of your desires as a powerful woman is to be dominated in some way or pursued because it makes you feel more feminine. It is a big deal. So I do struggle with the “isn’t the biggest deal.” But also like damn, yes, you know, it is a big deal to me. Now, this question, this anonymous is saying that she feels they’re sexually incompatible. I don’t. I mean, here’s what I’m gonna say, cheap. I don’t fuck that’s my answer for everything. I don’t know.
Mary
Lash tech cheat. I don’t know.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
If you have an amazing relationship and..
Mary
You can be able to talk about it.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, that’s Yeah. Okay. There you go. Maybe cheating is not the right answer.
Mary
I’m just saying talk about it. Nothing’s off limits if you are trying to make this work, right? Just talk about it. What’s really wrong? And what could we do? And how can we get creative and try different things before you #cheat? You know, just, that’s what I mean.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
That’s a much more I’m sure respectable answer.
Mary
There are all.
Mary
types of assets out there. There are tools, there’s gear, there’s clothing, there’s movies and books and lots of conversations to be had. So you’re absolutely right.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 24:05
I will say that Mary shared with me something the other day that I thought was other people have said it. But when she said it to me, I really appreciated it because I know it’s coming from a place of love. When I was expressing my frustrations about this very issue in my own marriage. She said, you won’t feel this sexually charged forever. And your sexual prowess, your appetite, your drive will not go away totally, but it will slow down. It will change. And the other things that you have with your partner will become way more important.
Mary
Absolutely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And sometimes I think we need to remember that.
Mary
Absolutely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Because what you’re feeling now and what I think I feel at times too is like a very now feeling. I think the bigger issue is if you have great sex with someone, but there’s nothing else. That’s not worth fighting over. That’s not worth going. But if you have an amazing…
Mary
Life partner.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Then I think it’s worth working on it.
Mary
A part of your story. That’s part of I mean, it’s a big part, but it’s not going to be as bigger part moving forward.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It’s a big part. That’s what she said.
Mary
But you know what I mean? That’s true.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I’m drinking my kombucha, y’all. It’s good for my stomach. Okay. Before Mary and I get to your next question. We’re going to take a quick break.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And we’re back. Our next question comes from a longtime CAWFEE TALK watcher named Beth. Her question is:
Jaime Primak Sullivan
“Hi, Jaime. What do you do when a friendship becomes draining? I love my friend so much. But over the last few years, the relationship has become so emotionally draining. I feel guilty avoiding her but I’ve tried to tell her that the nonstop mood swings and clinginess is causing a divide and she just gets her feeling hurt and disappears for a while only to resurface and love bomb me until we find our way again. She is the godmother to my children and my friend for almost 30 years. I love her. But I just don’t love this friendship anymore. Jaime, tell me what to do.”
Jaime Primak Sullivan 26:29
Well, first of all, friendship is work. It’s work.
Mary
It’s a relationship. If it matters to you. It’s a relationship that matters to you. It’s work.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It’s absolutely if your relationship isn’t work, it doesn’t matter to you.
Mary
It doesn’t really matter to you. It’s fleeting, it serves a singular purpose, you know, time and place, whatever, whatever. But relationship that matters is definitely work. Give and take, compromise.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So a couple of things. This is your friend for almost 30 years. So there’s a lot of love there. And history there. The godmother to your children. That’s a big thing. So I currently am not speaking to any of the godmothers of my children. Currently right now. That is a very painful thing. It just is, you know, when you choose godparents you choose them because you believe that they will be the loving spiritual guiding forces for your children. should anything happen to you. And right now, if anything happened to me, my kids would have no female like no godmothers. Okay, so well. I mean, you know what I mean. So, I also understand people staying in relationships and friendships because of time served. I do.
Mary
Right. That’s a thing. That’s a real thing. Yeah. But we’ve been friends for so long. You
Jaime Primak Sullivan 28:01
You were just talking to me about somebody the other day, remember?
Mary
Yeah, we’ve been friends since we’re 15-16. And because we’re friends since we’re 15-16 years old, doesn’t mean that our friendship works or makes sense anymore. And it hasn’t for a really long time. You know, first of all, growing apart is one thing. There’s a lot of other factors that were involved. You know, you have kids one doesn’t have kids. Things people don’t understand, etc, etc. But you can’t stay because, oh, we were in high school, we you know, just things aren’t lining up for having been lining up for a long time.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, if it says she says “What do you do when a friend you become draining? I love my friend so much. But the last few years of the relationship has become so emotionally draining. I feel guilty avoiding her but I’ve tried to tell her that the nonstop mood swings and clinginess is causing a divide and she just gets her feelings hurt.”
Mary
Sounds like your friend is going through menopause and you might want to check. Just another thought. You’ve been friends for 30 years. You said draining mood swings and then love bombing. I’m just putting that out there. Women do not talk about this a lot. Friendships that age. And I’m throwing this out there because I went through it. And I think I drove Jaime crazy. I know I drove my children crazy. I definitely drove myself cuckoo for cocoa puffs for magic spoon. And it’s a thing. So, I really think everything it’s like look before you cut some takeout those big scissors and Jaime and I got those gold-plated giant scissors to cut people out of our lives when necessary. Have a conversation, check in. I mean, if you haven’t had that conversation, or maybe you have? Think about it.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well that’s an interesting thing. Do you think that a lot of what you and I went through was from your menopause?
Mary
Dude, I was losing my mind. And you still go “Yeah Mary, your emotional.” Well, back like many losses coupled with people passing away and menopause. I’m not that tough. “Yeah. Hey, Jamie. Yeah, no problem.” Yeah, Hallmark commercial don’t make me cry. I looked at a puppy. And I’m like, yeah, menopause is serious. It’s really mood swings and emotional rollercoaster. I mean, it’s real.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 30:20
I mean, I’m learning.
Mary
And I’ve mentioned to you casually, but I will be here for you for all of it, you have a long way to go. But this is a real thing. Dudes don’t deal with this. So not fair. But that’s real. They’re friends for 30 years. I don’t know how old she is.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
But I’m guessing probably close to that age.
Mary
So that’s a real thing. And maybe, I mean, this not might not be their situation. But if one person’s going through it, and the other person is not even, you know, anywhere near that. It’s like you’re on different planets. Completely different planets.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, well, that’s a really interesting way to look at it. I would never have thought of that. But I can say that Mary and I did go through those types of things. And sometimes you have to take a break. It doesn’t mean it has to be a break up. You see, I always thought a break had to be a breakup. I mean, if I’m being honest, I probably did break ups n situations that could have been breaks. But I was not emotionally mature enough.
Mary
We’ve all been there, I think. And you definitely look back now. You know? As you mature, But breaks are good in a lot of situations. Like, even if there isn’t a huge prop, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes you just need time for yourself, to recharge, because, like, for instance, Jaime pours into so many people. And even if they’re not like vampires, but she’s pouring into people you got in, they might not pour back the same flow, you got to take a beat, you got to take a beat. Breaks are good.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 32:09
I have done a much better job of telling people I love, I need a situational break, meaning I don’t need a break from you. But this topic going forward is off limits, because it’s draining the shit.
Mary
I did that with my old friend that I was telling you about with regard to men in her life, it was I was like, This is always it’s always the same scenario, and you’re repeating the scenario, then you’re stuck in this scenario. And it’s like, we don’t talk about anything else. My kids have age 10 years, and all we’re talking about is this, this toxic crap you’re stuck in. That makes a lot of sense.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I’m learning as I get more emotionally mature, that breaks can replace break ups, if you can really identify what is causing you emotional angst in the friendship and say “Weigh it out, do I need a break from this person?” Like legit? Or do I need to just put some parameters and say, listen, we can’t talk politics at all. We can’t talk, I can’t be the friend you go to for this guy problem anymore. Because I have literally offered everything I have to offer. And you’re going to do what you want to do. So at this point, it’s the same conversation over and over and over again. I have situations that I’ve come to you with, I know for sure. The same shit over and over and over again.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You have situations that you’ve come to me with where I’m like “Whoa, we’ve been talking about the same shit for five years.” And she’s still struggling with it. Sometimes, you have to look at each other and go, I can’t be the one. I love you. But I can’t be the one for this anymore. I think we all these memes on social media, like I’m out. I’ll just cut you off. It’s cool, sometimes. Like if that’s what you really need to do, but I think there are certain conversations that could just be muted in the friendship. And if you eliminate those, you can start focusing on other thing.
Mary 34:13
Absolutely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So that would be our advice to you Beth.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
All right. Listen to question number four. This is a voicemail comes from a listener named Carolyn. Let’s listen to what she has to say.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
“Hi, Jaime. My name is Carolyn. I’m suspecting that my husband’s been cheating for a while. Everything seems circumstantial. Of course, he’s denying. How I’ve tried to prove it. I just don’t know how to do that. If there’s any suggestions, you know, on what to do. I don’t want to destroy one of your relationship, you know, to keep accusing but in my heart, honest positive. You know, so tell me what to do. Love you
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Ok Carolyn, thank you so much for calling in. Carolyn, I’m going to tell you right now that if your intuition is telling you your husband is cheating, guess what’s happening?
Mary
He’s cheating.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Hands down. Ladies, your intuition is never wrong. Never.
Mary
That’s what it’s there for.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
That’s what it’s there for. Okay? So if you know your husband’s cheating, you know, so now you just need to act accordingly. If you just need to hear him say it. Because that’s what you need to act accordingly. You may never get that. So you have two choices, you can either shut up and let it go. Because if you only want to hear him admit it, and he’s not going to admit it, then you got to let it go. Or you can just know that he’s cheating. And decide what you want to do.
Mary
Yeah, from there.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
What do you want to do? If you’re staying? Then you need to address the reasons you think he might have cheated?
Mary
Facts.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
If you’re leaving, just tell him. I trust myself right now more than I trust you. And I need to honor that. I know you’re cheating. You’re never going to admit it. Because you want me to look crazy. That’s not the kind of love I signed up for. I’m out.
Mary 36:06
Yeah, it’s searching for proof and trying to make yourself great. And none of that makes sense. Your intuition is telling you. That’s real, what Jamie said.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I’m telling you, ladies, when your intuition is telling you something is off with your child, something is off with your child, when your intuition is telling you something is wrong with your body that you might be sick, you go to the doctor, something is wrong. When your intuition is telling you your man is cheating, or your friend is the one telling you secrets behind her. Do you remember? I’m not gonna say who it was? Because It’s not my story to tell. But do you remember years ago when I called Adrian and I said, I know this person is the one telling us.
Mary
I remember.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And she said, No. [UNCLEAR] don’t let her go give her another chance.
Mary
I remember very well.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Man, if I didn’t put myself right back in the hot like if I didn’t set myself right back on fire. When my intuition was like, what are you doing?
Mary
Screaming at you.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You know what this is.
Mary
Listen, listen.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Listen to me.
Mary
Yeah, absolutely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Intuition is literally..
Mary
Our sixth sense.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Beyonce. Listen. Listen. That’s your intuition. That loudly and that strongly. So Carolyn, I am sorry that your man cheated. You say you don’t want to destroy a 20-year relationship? Then don’t.
Mary
Yeah, there’s a path forward.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Absolutely.
Mary
Start working on it.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
That’s right.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Listener question number five. This last question comes from a listener named Carrie. She asks:
Jaime Primak Sullivan
“Hi Jaime. I’m 38 years old. I’m comfortable with the sexual acts that runs so deep in my knowledge. Yet some days find that I feel like I am charting unknown territory again. What age do women feel really sexually brave? I feel like I should have this shit on lockdown. However, I’m still learning like a sensitive little girl.”
Mary 38:02
That’s okay.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Wait, wait, I don’t get it.
Mary
I know.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I think what she’s saying is she understands what the sexual acts are. But at 38 she’s still not comfortable like with herself to like really do it.
Mary
Explore and do different things.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 38:20
I’m guessing because like I guess what she’s saying is like I know what Anal is but I’m not brave enough to try it. Or I know what reverse cowgirl is.. [UNCLEAR]
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Don’t listen to Mary. I’m just messing with you. [UNCLEAR] not to be explore.
Mary
Can I hear the big the middle chunk of that again?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
She says “Some days I feel like I’m charting unknown territory. What age do women feel really sexually brave.”
Mary
Okay.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
40, that’s my opinion.
Mary
You’re spot on.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Let me tell you something. I hit 40 and was like I’ll fuck anybody anywhere. Any position you can’t tell me shit.
Mary
But please do because I want to try that.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Jackson’s like, I’m to whom it may concern, I resign.
Mary
50 shades of red.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right, 50 shades of red is Jackson right now. I would say that women will search harder to find a missing sock than they will to find their orgasm.
Mary
You’re hilarious.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Am I wrong though?
Mary
No, no, you’re..
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay because women..
Mary
Turn the whole laundry room upside down.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I’ll get on my hands and knees and look under like is that sock under here? I will start unfolding clothes I already folded to shake it out and be like it must be stuck in one of these sweatshirts. But the same women are afraid to get on top and figure out how to move.
Mary
I think she sounds like she really wants to give it a go and be a little adventurous. So I don’t know. This seems there’s something in there. Like she seems like she really wants to be adventurous.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 40:01
The fact that she’s asking about it. Tell me it’s probably coming. But..
Mary
No pun intended.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah, no fucking pun intended. Come baby, come baby, come baby. That’s how you know what age we are. Jackson has no idea what that song is.
Mary
Yeah, that’s okay. We’ll explain that to him later.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So, here’s what I would say. I do think it’s coming.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I know I mean, seriously.
Mary
It’s in your old boy.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I think you’re close. I do think that women hit 40. And it just is like, yes, we are just like, we go from being Charlotte, to Samantha, you know, in confidence level, like, making love is fine.
Mary
Sex in the city reference for those of you who didn’t catch that.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 40:52
I mean, I think making love is nice. And there’s certainly a time and place for that. You know, your wedding night? I don’t know. But women want to smash. But they do.
Mary
I’m not gonna say too much.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Women want to fuck and be fucked. Women want to dominate and be dominated. Women want to choke and be choked. They want to like get on top and have somebody get on top of them. Like the notion that women just always want to.
Mary
Yeah, not everybody wants to be choked. But I think 90% want our ponytails pull just a little bit. Just a little. You know, everybody has just a different level of how hard they want you to pull it. But just hold on to it.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Pull my hair. I don’t care. Pull it. No, I just, listen, I do believe that. I want you to know that you are totally normal in knowing what the fun, brave stuff is, but not yet feeling like you are brave enough to do it. Because I think there are a lot of things we know before we’re brave enough to try. And that’s why when we’re young and we do things, when we experiment, we run to our girlfriends and go ” I sixty-nine, oh my god!” Because it is scary and nerve racking and you don’t want to be the girl that like can’t figure it out or can’t do and you don’t want to be 38 and be like, Is this how it go? Like, you know, and sixty-nine is hard because if he’s doing it right, then you just sit there with his penis in your mouth like a thermometer. Because you forget it.
Mary 42:35
I always thought it was like who’s doing like, like, wait a minute. I want to enjoy what you’re doing. [UNCLEAR]
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right. It’s like..
Mary
Not my thing.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It’s well, it could be my thing. But it’s kind of like rubbing your stomach and padding your head.
Mary
Yeah, yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Can you do it at the same time. [UNCLEAR]
Mary
But do you want to?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
But I do. But I’m saying once you get to 40 you’re just like, fuck it. We’re gonna try it. Hang on. And Michael is just like “Oh…” Right? Because in his mind at 58 you know, those are things he did when he’s young and like, he doesn’t need to feel brave, right? Anyway Carrie, just so you know, it’s coming, baby. You’re a few years away, but I promise you.
Mary
And have fun with it. Come check back in. Check back with us.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Please email us and let us know how it’s going, honey. You’re doing wonderful, sweetie.
Mary
We’re rooting for you.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
All right. Well, Mary, thank you for being on my podcast.
Mary
Thanks for having me.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I love it. Thanks for coming to Birmingham.
Mary
Anytime you know. I got them antibodies. You can’t get rid of me now.
Mary
Three months.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
She’ll be here three months from now back and Mary’s still here. She still has antibodies. If three months from now. We don’t have that vaccine. I’m gonna cry. Alright, anyway, thank you guys so much for listening. I love you guys so much today. Have a great, great day.
CREDITS
TELL ME WHAT TO DO is a production of Lemonada Media. The show is produced by Kryssy Pease and Alex McOwen. It’s edited by Ivan Kuraev. Music is by Dan Molad. Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jaime Primak Sullivan, are our executive producers. Rate and review us and follow us at @LemonadaMedia on all your favorite social platforms. Of course you can follow me at Jaime Primak Sullivan on Facebook or at @JamiePSullivan on Instagram. If you have any questions for me that you want me to answer on the show, give me a call at 833-453-6662
