Financial Literacy
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Description
SPEAKERS
Jaxon, Jaime Primak Sullivan
Jaime Primak Sullivan 00:05
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Let’s Tawk podcast. I am your host, Jaime Primak Sullivan and I am joined by my co-host, Jaxon. And I’m so grateful that you are here with me. And to the listeners as well, this episode, Jackson and I are going to dive into financial literacy for dummies. I don’t know about you guys, but every time I turn on the news, which I try not to do, or open my laptop or turn on my phone, I am inundated with words like interest rate, Federal Reserve, gas prices, inflation, recession. And I think to myself, I’d love to have an opinion about some of this, but I don’t know what any of this is. So Jaxon and I have decided that on this episode of the podcast, we would create a conversation around financial literacy for dummies. Us being the dummies. And also money saving tips and things that I have realized where I am overspending. So let’s get into it, by the way, I would like to state for the record if you don’t know Jackson and I let me just say that I am a 45-year old woman married three children, homeowner, and you are?
Jaxon
26 year old recently. Male, not a homeowner, a home a liver inner.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I do love a home liver inner, I got three of those.
Jaxon
The owner would be my father. Or the bank, depending on how you look at it. And, you know, I’m here to learn, not married, no children, no dependents.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So, we have very different financial situations and financial responsibilities and financial capabilities. Jaxon’s eyebrows just raised. And so, first and foremost, I want to ask you some questions. Let’s start from the beginning. Who taught you about money and how to manage it, save it, spend it?
Jaxon 02:14
Both parents did, I would say mom more than dad because dad was the primary breadwinner? He’s a doctor.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
That’s a flex right there. Sometimes the fact is a flex. Okay?
Jaxon
He is an ophthalmologist specifically.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Listen, whatever. I don’t know what that is. But it’s a doctor.
Jaxon
It’s an eye surgeon. That’s what it is an eye surgeon and it wasn’t like, shaming me about being like your dad works hard. You need to not be spending all this money. But especially when I was in high school, and I was going out and stuff. But I internally felt shame. Despite that. It wasn’t so much a conversation that was often had, it was more like a reminder here and there to be like, don’t just spend all this money on food or comic books or whatever.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So I learned about financial habits, responsibilities, whatever, probably primarily from my father as well. But in a twofold. By the way, this was the early 80s where these jokes were not probably not appropriate, but certainly more widely, widely shared. In 2022. I do not recommend you make Jewish jokes. But my father, who was Jewish, love to joke that like, if you see a penny and you pick it up, not only all day long, though, you have good luck, but you’ll be a penny richer and 100 pennies equals $1, […] he would always joke that like he always had money because he picked up every penny, but also after my father died and I became fearful of no money, which I don’t know why there’s no rhyme or reason for that, by the way, zero, but I have worked since I was 15 years old, and I never worked one job ever. I have never worked one job in my entire life. I’ve worked 30 years and I’ve always had at least two jobs. When I was 15. I got a job at the mall and I worked at merry go round and […] mall, and I worked at the movie theater. And I just always worked and but I spend frivolously, I save, but I spend.
Jaxon 04:32
Would you say you partake in retail therapy?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh my God, I don’t even want to talk about it. It’s giving me now you just gave me a sinus. So when it comes to financial responsibility, I learned through trauma, and I did not establish good habits. I am ashamed to say that I have no, it’s not that I don’t know how, I just am, I did not build good financial habits in balancing a checkbook, I rely on checking my balance to see what my balance is I, you know, there are some people who are great who still use those Ledger’s that come with the checks in like, balance their checkbook properly and fully understand what goes out every day and what comes in every day and where they are. Like, there has been more than five times in my life that I have gone to use a debit card or whatever. And it’s like, no, and I’m like, no, what do you mean? And then I look at my balance, and it’s like, $40.69. And I’m like, wait, what, and this is, these are poor financial habits. It’s not that I don’t make decent money. It’s not that we don’t earn a decent living. It’s that I am not financially responsible. And Michael is even worse. So I have to do it. And thank God for automatic payments. And I want to get into automatic payments. So to have some structure to this conversation, I want to start first with financial literacy for dummies. First, this word that has been circulating around the news cycle that has such a negative connotation, and that word is a recession. We keep hearing about recession is the United States headed for recession, by the way, the doomsday financial conversation, for clickbait, it is almost like the media on all sides, by the way, all sides from way left CNN to way right Fox News and everything in between. None of the media cares that we have our traumatized society right now that we are living in a hyper state of trauma. They don’t give a shit. They don’t try to speak to us, like, carefully. Everything is click baity, and like how polarizing can I be with this headline? How fucking triggering and doomsday? Can I be with this headline. But I do think it’s important that we have an understanding, because when I was in New Jersey last week, everybody was talking about, we’re headed for a recession, Biden did this to gas prices, so and so did this. And suddenly it was becoming this angry, scary political conversation. And I thought to myself, did Biden do this? Do I even know what anyone’s talking about? Can I have an informed educational conversation about this? The answer is no. I can’t, I need to fully understand what a recession is before I can even, A, have a conversation about it and B, prepared for it. Right? Because I don’t know what it is. So let me tell you what a recession is. A recession is a significant decline in general economic activity in a given region. In this instance, we’re referring to the United States of America. Now, recessions happen all the time.
Jaxon 08:15
Yes, I have lived through at least one.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
What is your understanding of a recession? Like do you have understanding right now of what a recession is?
Jaxon
I have two sort of cultural touch points for a recession, the obvious one is 2008, when I was 12, right, and the housing market crashed, and we went into a recession. I remember my mom telling me that like, things are becoming more expensive, but I was 12. I didn’t buy a whole lot of stuff at that point. The other cultural touchpoint is one where a recession arguably was avoided. I remember learning about this in economics class, but after 911, the government made a specific plea to the public to continue to spend, because things like a mass, like attack like that can disrupt the economy and stop spending entirely and cause a recession outright. So the governor was like, please don’t stop spending keep going. Despite what’s happened.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
The recession right now, is compounded by the fact that we lived through a massive pandemic, and are still in it to some degree. But so how did we get here? I want to be able to explain that to people what happened was COVID hit and everybody locked down. And what happened was twofold. A, production stopped. Right? And B, a lot of people quit their jobs. You can argue stimulus, you can argue all of these things, you know, we were giving them free money and blah blah, blah. But you know what? That’s neither here nor there. Because here we are.
Jaxon 10:04
Right. I would say with respect to that the opinions are either you should not have given any money, let people pull them up by their own bootstraps, or we should have given them a lot more money. So, yeah, it was like a band aid thing that didn’t fix anything by anyone’s estimation.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, so you’re looking at a recession, right? And what happened is, people stopped producing, right? So steel plant shut down, containers coming into the United States stopped, you know, everything, chicken plants, farms, you know, every industry, it was the first time in our lives that we saw every single industry come to a halt.
Jaxon
First time I ever heard the word supply chain, right?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yes, supply chain, what does that even mean? What do you mean, you have no cars, people were going to car dealerships with money to buy a car, and the car dealers were saying, we don’t have a car, that’s supply chain without steel, leather, right? Rubber, you can’t make cars. So if the plants stop, because people can get sick, and people are quitting their jobs that affects supply chain. Right? So what happens, demand goes up. And now they can charge top dollar, right? So if you’re looking at say steel, right, let’s say steel, and I’m making up these numbers, so we can understand, it was $1 for every steel beam before Covid. Now COVID hits, the steel industry has to come to a halt. Right. And the plants are producing in a trickle. The people who sell steel can now charge $10 per beam. So now the people who buy it are paying $10 per beam and charging the end user me and you to build a home or to repair our whatever. Now they’re charging us $15 a beam. That’s called inflation. Inflation is a general increase in the prices of goods and services in an economy over time. But we saw an inflation in a compacted amount of time. Inflation spiked during Covid. Typically it happened slowly, right. But we saw it compacted into an 18 month. I mean, it’s still happening in a lot of spaces. But we saw mass inflation, this country saw mass inflation in a very compacted amount of time. It corresponds to a reduction in the purchasing power of currency. Meaning your money’s not going as far. And that is a problem. Because what you were buying, say on a Monday, right? For $1. You’re now spending $5 on Tuesday, which throws everybody’s sort of financial plan into a tailspin. And that’s going back to what you were talking about how it affects disproportionately the American poor, and lower middle class.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I think one thing we want to point out is that inflation, because it’s a scary word, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing. Especially if wages keep pace with inflation, which is not what we’re seeing. They are rising right now, not at the pace of inflation.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
No, because there was no way for employers to raise their wages as fast as the supply chain was raising their price for things. So for example, I’ll give you an example. Jaime, what do you and Jaxon mean? I’ll give you an example. Let’s say cabinets. Cabinets used to be 10 to 12 weeks; you want to order new cabinets for your kitchen. You’re waiting 10 to 12 weeks. Now, you’re waiting 7 months for cabinets. people waited a year for a couch. So when you have a supply chain issue, now you have workers, right, you have workers who either can’t work their normal hours and you’ve got to pay them more to keep them around. Because if you’re waiting 7 months for cabinet installs, what are your installers doing in the meantime, you either pay them more to keep them around. Right? Or you’ve got to let them go. And then you’ve got to hire people back when cabinet start to come in. Now wages have gone up, right? Wages have gone up, and you’re trying to bring people back. And this is a cycle. So now we understand recession is a significant decline in the general economic activity. So people were buying a ton. When we were on lockdown. Amazon could not keep up with the amount of packages.
Jaxon
A great microcosm is toilet paper, everyone knows what toilet paper was like when the pandemic happened. But it you would go to the Walmart and there’ll be none. And you go on Amazon, and it’s $400 for some toilet paper.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And remember, a recession is not always bad. Sometimes a recession is a course correction. And by the way, it’s not even guaranteed that we’re going to have a recession.
Jaxon 16:21
40% next year is what we saw, right? That’s less than half.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And 40%, which is less than half that it will happen in 2023. So inflation is the general increase in prices of goods and services in the economy over time, right? And it also means that your dollar will not go as far tomorrow as it did today. And we’re seeing that tremendously with the housing market. We’re seeing the course correction. Right? What does course correction mean? I think it’s very important that people understand that, in many countries, course, correction always feels extreme, no matter what side you’re on, right? If you look at the housing market, right, whether you’re the buyer or the seller, people who sold their homes two years ago thought they were getting top dollar, there was no way they could have seen how the housing market would come 18 months later. I mean, I have a friend and freehold who sold their house two years ago, literally, like right after COVID hid, and she was getting what she thought was top dollar for her house. Now she looks at, you know, Zillow, or whatever one of those sites are, yes, Zillow, and people are getting 350,000 more in her neighborhood. And it’s like, holy shit, but guess what’s gonna happen? It’s gonna pop, because there is no way life doesn’t sustain that level of inflation. I want to just give you guys some notes that I took on how to prepare for recession. If we hit one. We don’t know if we’re going to, as Jaxson said, it’s only 40%. And if it does hit, it won’t be until next year. But it’s scary to think about. Because a recession essentially means that prices will continue to go up while wages go down. Spending goes down.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yes, spending is gonna go down. And wages aren’t going to keep up with it, probably. So people are gonna have to tighten their belts.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 18:36
Yes. And remember that the generations who came before us lived through this. They lived through full great depressions. And they survived. They made it through. And we will too, but it is scary, especially when you are in that lower middle to lower class, financial class. And you have to cut back on necessity, not like Starbucks, or your gym membership, or your like Botox or your hair coloring. You know what I mean? Like people who have to decide whether they get their medicine, or they eat meat that week. So first and foremost. The number one thing I want to say is remain calm. Because the talk is very scary. It makes you feel like you’re not going to be okay. You worry about how you will pay for the things that your family needs. There are a lot of people that I have actually heard say, right now it is more expensive for me to actually get to work than what I’m making when I’m at work. You know hourly employees, if you’re looking at a, at the amount of gas it takes them to get where they’re going, based on what they’re making. And if you look at people in hospitality, right, if you rely on tips, yeah, but people are cutting back because they’re afraid of a recession. So they’re not going to bars or restaurants as much, or giving tips exactly or tipping as much as they would normally did. It is a very scary thing. Incredibly, and I, you know, like, we need to be in touch with other people’s fear. Because other people’s fear may seem irrational to you. But if you can be empathetic to why they’re afraid you’ll have a better understanding of like, how to truly love your neighbor through something like this. And so the next thing that I took in my notes and is rebalance your portfolio, take a look at your finances across the board. What are you contributing right now to something that maybe you can stop contributing to and start saving differently, right? If you’re pulling money out of your savings, let’s just say to invest in your 401K or contribute to a stock or something like that. Right? Is there a better use of that money right now?
Jaxon
Yes, and I have an opinion related to that. But I just think it’s important to put out there that people think cryptocurrency is a get rich, quick scheme nowadays, like it’ll solve your financial problems, you just buy this NFT and tomorrow be worth 20,000 more dollars or 20,000 more theory or whatever. It’s not, it is a way to lose money for most people.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
There are a lot of people who made a lot of money on crypto and NFT’s and Bitcoin and these words that you hear Already rich people. They made a lot of money. And now people who bought those things. I mean, they’ve bottomed out. And you know, I think anytime financial get rich quick things typically do burst.
Jaxon 22:07
Yes. Or result in the government saying you have been committing a Ponzi scheme.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, so remain calm, rebalance your portfolio. And that may just be a look at like rebalancing the way you invest, right? There are a lot of stocks right now that are very low, the stock market is suffering under the threat of risk of recession, because the stock market is volatile. When people get afraid, they sell they take their money out of the stock market, which makes it come down. That’s another understanding you may not have. And by the way, guys, if we’re over explaining things to you better to have the information at the top of your I always say let me move it to the top of your email. So you have it, the stock market responds to people’s confidence, financial confidence in their country, this one being America, or their financial fear. And when the media is constantly saying things like a recession is coming, a recession is on the horizon. People become financially afraid, and they sell and they pull their money out of the stock market, which makes prices come down. Anyway, so here’s the step in my list of ways to prepare for a recession or just to become mindful, don’t panic, right? The first step is remain calm. So always go back to step one. Revisit your budget, Jaime, revisit your budget, inflation came back with a vengeance at the end of 2021. So recession or no recession, you need to take a look at your spending. So I asked you as you’re listening to this podcast, what are your spending habits, you need to hit the pause button. Everybody needs to review their bank accounts, their credit card statements and identify any costs that can truly be cut. Guys, if you are a person like me, who has upgraded to Spotify Premium, to HBO Max, to, you know, reoccurring this and rolling that and you just have entered your credit card information into every Pay Pal Shopify this and that […]. And all you have to do is buy at a push of a button. And I am guilty of it. I want you guys to know that the ease in which I have surrounded myself with the ability to spend my family’s money is disheartening. It is frankly, irresponsible ease of spending. Bike efficiency to be able to spend has hurt me.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh my goodness, it is really hurt me. So what I am tasked with now, under the watchful eye of Michael, is revisiting my budget. Do I even have one? Do I know what comes in every month and where it is going, because if you don’t know where your money is going truthfully, you are me. And that is irresponsible. I have become lazy. And frankly, financial laziness is a red flag. I just, I need to get back to it, I need to see what my nest egg is each month, create an actual budget, cancel things that I may be signed up for, because I had 30 days free or whatever. And now it’s just reoccurring taking out $90.99 Out of my account every month. And I’m not really paying attention to it. And I think a lot of people did that. Did you?
Jaxon 26:02
There are a few subscriptions that I will be surprised by, definitely I need I need a calendar really, that marks when these charges are gonna happen. Because otherwise they just they hit the bank account. And I learned after the fact, which is not smart and not how a budget is supposed to work. Because a budget is meant to be it’s like a deadline, almost. It’s like a self-imposed rule. And if you fudge it, if you’re like, Well, I know a little bit over my budget, then it’s not really a budget, you don’t really have a budget, if you go over you have to pick a number monthly and stick to it. Like it’s your diet.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And I am so bad at that. But that is great advice. And I have to do it now. Like now I’ve been tasked Now Michael has literally sat me down and said this has always been your responsibility. You’ve always managed the family funds and you are not doing a good job. And now the federal financial well-being is changing. And you have got to change with it. Right. Don’t panic. But you do have to prepare. I heard this and I didn’t really understand it. The federal government, not Joe Biden, not the mayor of your town, not the governor of Michigan. What is that, the feds?
Jaxon
Well, the Federal Reserve almost called the Fed, singular. Short for that.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You learned something new every day people. So now when you’re having drinks with your girlfriends, and somebody’s like, oh, my God, the Fed increased, you know, they raise the interest rates by three quarters of a percent. They’re trying to bankrupt us. I hate this President, you can say, actually, the Federal Reserve known as the Fed is America’s central bank. And it is the institution which in charge of keeping prices from increasing too rapidly. They target 2% annual increases in the personal consumption expenditures index, which is just a measurement of how much people consume. It’s a fancy way of saying how much are Americans consuming? On average, over time, a little bit of consumer price inflation is generally viewed as a desirable, in part because it gives companies room to adjust to a changing economy.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 28:51
High inflation can spur the Fed to raise interest rates. I think they have to raise it to respond to the economy.
Jaxon
It would be nice if economics and politics were separate.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
For church and state we’re separate. Would that be awesome?
Jaxon
But we haven’t, I don’t know there is a way to un-entwine politics and economics just because who will lead the country also talk unless you go full communism, you just don’t have money?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
But at least now we understand who is actually raising the interest rates? And do you know what interest rates are?
Jaxon
For loans, right? So it’s how much more you have to pay back? Right? So that the person who’s loaned you can make some money, right?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And this goes across leases, mortgages, right? So when Michael and I got our mortgage, interest rates were very low. That’s government, government, government. is not a word people don’t use it is governed by the Fed. Right? The interest rates, when, which is remember is America’s central bank. So they make decisions for all the little banks that we take mortgages out and get leases through and do all of these things. When we got our home, our interest rate was very low, and you get a fixed interest rate, meaning even if the Fed raises the interest rates, yours doesn’t raise. What happened to people member in 2008? was they got very low interest rates, but they were not fixed. So when the Fed raised the interest rates, people could no longer afford their mortgages. And there were a bajillion foreclosures. So now, interest rates are rising, because we have to offset. I mean, it’s a whole cyclical thing. So when you get into conversations with people, and you want to have some financial literacy, now you have some understanding of what these things are, because I’m going to be completely honest with you, before I didn’t know who raised the interest rates. I probably was one of those people was like, the president, like as if Joe Biden is like in his bedroom right now on some app on his phone, like, let me just raise the interest rate and see what happens. but I think it’s more interesting to think about him doing it on an app.
Jaxon
Like government has designed this whole thing, just an app specifically for the president, no one else can download this app.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It’s only you don’t have just the nuclear codes. You have the password to the app that affects everything across the country. I think I’m gonna make the writer’s strike. In Hollywood, that’ll be cool. Let me go to the app. You know what I think I’m gonna do, I’m gonna suspend the NBA for a little while. That’ll be fun. Imagine if the President could just do anything.
Jaxon 32:02
You’re giving me a movie idea right now. We’ll talk about it later.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I think it makes people feel more emotionally comfortable to be able to blame someone, what else can we do to prepare for this 40% recession that may or may not happen? And it’s absolutely not any one sitting presidents fault? Because it is a financial response to the last, technically, three years, pay down your debt. But Jamie, how can we pay it down when we’re supposed to be saving every single penny that we can, because rising interest rates can put a strain on families with debt. Interest rates are in my opinion, and in the opinion of financial projectors, interest rates may continue to rise, they probably will continue to rise. And if you are carrying a balance on a high interest credit card, for example, you need to pay that off. Because they charge variable interest, which means their high interest rates could get even higher. They’re not fixed. Right? Remember that word fixed, which means you’re locked into a number, credit cards, a lot of the high interest rate ones are easy to get for people who have low credit. But they are not fixed interest rates so they can continue to go up. And essentially you’re making minimum payments that aren’t even covering the interest every month. That is a problem. So paying off these high interest rate credit cards. And certainly if you have fixed rate credit cards, you should still pay those down as well. But you really want to focus on the balances that you have on these high interest rate cards.
Jaxon
There may be even based on what I read a benefit if you have a fixed rate loan or credit card and inflation is rising, to wait a little bit because you may end up having to pay or the amount of the value that you’re paying back ends up being less than what you were going to have to before the inflation.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 34:03
And listen guys, here’s the bottom line. The bottom line is you are solely responsible for your financial lifestyle. As am I by the way, I’m talking to myself. Every single financial decision you make and I get it right now you’re thinking oh god Jaime is a really something else I need to worry about every day I got to worry about Covid, I got to worry about employment. I got to worry about this. I got to worry about my middle schoolers mental health I have to worry about whatever. Yes, unfortunately there is. You have to worry about your lifestyle, your financial lifestyle. You have to make good decisions that impact you not just week to week, but month to month and maybe year to year. You know, if you don’t make changes now, and we do hit a recession. You could find yourself in a tailspin and back be scary. So you need to stay calm. But you need to be mindful, you need to get on a budget, you need to be honest about your spending habits. This is not the time for you to be sneaking in packages behind your husband’s back. Ladies, we do it, we all do it. We wear something new. And he’s like, is that new? And we’re like, no, I’ve had in my closet for three years like No, you haven’t, you hide the Amazon packages you. You know what I mean? This is not the time for that. This is the time to be slightly more frugal, and just plan. Guys, you need a plan, you need a budget and a plan, a couple of years ago, we could kind of fly by the seat of our pants, we can’t do that now. So I am going to get on a budget, I am happy if you’re interested to share with you the kind of budget that I find that works for my family, if you’re interested in that I absolutely will I’ll even show you pictures of the spreadsheets that I make. But I have to look at my financial family planning as part of my job as the role I have in my family. The same way that I do have responsibilities at work, I have responsibilities at home, it is part of my job. And when I don’t do it, well, my partner in my home, which is say a business right looks at me and says you are not keeping up with your end of the bargain. Just like if Jaxon didn’t do the things he was required to do at work for what he is being compensated for, I would say you are not performing the responsibilities in your job description, right now I am failing in my job description. And my partner, which is my husband has sat me down and said you are not pulling your weight, you are not doing what you agreed to do in this partnership. And that is unacceptable.
Jaxon 36:49
But him sitting down to tell you that is an acknowledgment that he knows you can do better.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yes. And also that the expectation is that I will. So if you are listening to this, and you are financially responsible for your family, you need to understand things like what is a recession? What is inflation? What is supply chain, which we’ve talked about all these things? What happening at the gas pump? How, you know, how can that be relieved or not? And also, if we are going into a recession, what does that look like for my family, if you are the financial planner for your household, you are responsible for all of this, whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not. And we have got to budget, we’ve got to become a little more frugal. And we have to have a really good vision 360 Vision of what our financial situation is, where is our money coming in? How is it coming in? What does that look like? And where is it going out? And what does that look like? So we are in this together, guys. I appreciate this conversation, Jaxon, because I needed it. I didn’t know it. And I’m still learning. And I appreciate you guys listening. I hope that you’ve learned that you’ve taken some stuff away from this, I hope it’s inspired you to sort of get a grasp on your financial situation and your home and your business. And, you know, remain calm.
Jaxon 38:15
And if you have an economics degree and you disagree with us, feel free to leave a comment.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
As always, we appreciate you guys tuning in. We are grateful for any likes, shares, reviews, whatever, downloads with all of the podcasts the things that people can do. And we will be with you next week on the next episode of Let’s Tawk.
CREDITS
Let’s Tawk is a Lemonada Media Original. Our producer is Xorje Olivares and Dani Matias. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Jamie Primak Sullivan. Mix and scoring is by Brian Castillo. Music is by Dan Molad. Please help others find the show by rating and reviewing wherever you listen. Catch my series Cawfee Tawk on the Jaime Primak Sullivan Facebook page. I’m also on Twitter at @JaimePrimak, and on Instagram at @JaimePSullivan. And follow at @LemonadaMedia across all social platforms. If you want more Let’s Tawk, visit Lemonada Premium only on Apple podcasts.
