Flashback Friday: Every Facebook Apology Ever
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Listen again as Hoja, Kiki, and Mohanad take a deep dive into the history of Facebook, from Zuckerberg’s shady 2003 hot-or-not website FaceMash, to the election-swaying, misinformation-spreading, outrage-amplifying social network we know (and hate) today. They talk about their first memories of Facebook, the worst misinformation their family members have shared, and why, despite their better judgment, they just can’t seem to give it up. Plus, Hoja asks for an R-rated apology from her dog, and Kiki surprisingly says sorry to the anti-vaccine mandate crowd.
Please note, I’m Sorry contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.
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Transcript
Kiki Monique 00:08
I’m Kiki Monique. And this is I’M SORRY, a podcast about apologies. And this week was the first week that the temperature in LA at night got a little bit cold and I had to wear actual covered shoes. And I didn’t like that.
Mohanad Elshieky
This is Mohanad Elshieky and this week I had a sesame bagel with strawberry cream cheese every day for the week. And my digestive system is a wreck right now. It’s not working, it’s done.
Hoja Lopez
I’m Hoja Lopez. And I went on Craigslist and sold my dining room chairs to an unknown man who came up to my apartment with his wife. And then they sat down and we talked for an hour and a half. And I just know everything about them now. And that is, you know, that’s my bad.
Kiki Monique
The fact that you even let Craigslist people have your real address already. And then you let them come in and sit down and talk to you.
Hoja Lopez
Well, we talked about the chairs, very beautiful vintage like chairs that I bought off of Craigslist from another stranger who could have also murdered me. This time, this stranger and his wife, delightful people from Chicago, Illinois. Shout out Dave, Lisa, I love you, new best friends. Okay, so this week, we are going to talk about Facebook. And I personally have been victimized by this company in many ways, emotionally, physically, all of that. But to start talking about Facebook in general is truly a monumental task, because what has not been said about this massive corporation, about the head figure of the corporation. And literally it just feels like talking about the house, when you’re in the house and the house is burning. You’re like, I gotta get out of this house before I can fully talk about it. But it seems like we may never really be out of it. But I’m excited to talk about Facebook. And I’m going to start with a description of the very first picture I ever posted to my Facebook which I went back and looked. And it is me very sexually pouting into a mirror. And you can both see the picture of myself in the mirror and then also you can see me and I’m kissing my own lips.
Mohanad Elshieky 02:30
Wow. Okay.
Hoja Lopez
Victimization A, they let me do that and they shouldn’t have let me do that.
Mohanad Elshieky
Wow, you really put a mirror to society. That’s amazing.
Kiki Monique 02:40
What year was this first post?
Hoja Lopez
This is 2005. I still use my college email for Facebook. That’s the only reason that I know it. But that was my first year of college was the first year I joined Facebook. But when did you guys join Facebook? Would you remember this at all?
Kiki Monique
I don’t even remember. Like I tried to go back into history. And it was like I used to post so much on it. I like I think I stopped around 2009, I remember, I felt like I went from Friendster to Facebook, maybe? It felt like that’s how the transition went? Or did I go mice? I don’t remember. But it was definitely probably in that 2006-ish time. Maybe?
Mohanad Elshieky
Yeah, I created my account in 2007. And my first post was my hand hurts.
Hoja Lopez
You have sent me and I love it. Favorite facts about you.
Mohanad Elshieky
Two likes from people who to this day I’m not sure if they like the fact that my hand hurts or they’re were supportive of me.
Kiki Monique
Did we ever discover why your hand hurt? Like was it just pulsating? Or was there a reason did you do something?
Mohanad Elshieky
Truly.
Hoja Lopez
Like describe the pain.
Mohanad Elshieky
I mean, I was in high school then and I guess I mean, you know, it was just pain from being in you know in the world just as a young man.
Hoja Lopez 04:04
Right? Because teenagers okay, this is Baba like what a teenagers that are boys do the most up when they’re that age. You were hurting because of it was like a worker’s comp situation.
Mohanad Elshieky
Yeah, probably. And I feel like what you’re putting to is a lot of clapping.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, for other people applause. But this is just to say that like when we were that age, we definitely were not, you know, billionaire and programming genius Mark Zuckerberg. We were maybe idiots in a different way. But just to start off in for me, like as I was reading about Mark Zuckerberg and just kind of the general differences. I put together a small description of what I thought he would put on his Tinder account if he was single. And this is what I have so far. Atheist, vegetarian, 5’7 Jewish color blind, with an accurate TSX. Tech Genius, busy. That’s all I wrote. Yeah, so that’s kind of what my very baseline description of Mark Zuckerberg is. So he’s born in 1984 in White Plains, New York. So that’s two years before I’m born. So, you know, as of now, he’s kind of late 30s. And his parents are a psychiatrist, and then Edward Zuckerberg, his dad is a dentist. So again, like pretty like well to do like, generally not worried about money kind of thing. He’s kind of like a pretty big nerd. And in terms of like, you know, his tastes and what he likes, and so he has like a Star Wars themed Bar Mitzvah when he was 13. And then after that, he goes into high school and generally speaking, like, you know, people think he’s smart. He’s got a lot going on. And then he goes to Hartsville High School, which I really want to point out that also Jesse McCartney went to, do you guys know? He’s highly Beloved. Yeah. Do you guys remember that? Doo doo doo? I don’t want nothing to go to waste.
Kiki Monique 06:08
I don’t know what you’re doing to know what to remember.
Hoja Lopez
This, okay, I’m singing a song that Jesse McCartney sings called Beautiful Soul.
Kiki Monique
Okay.
Hoja Lopez
This is a very hard tangent for Mark Zuckerberg. But once I found out they went to the same high school, I was like, I got a bob beautiful soul. So I’ve been listening to beautiful soul all day to day. So okay, so after high school, he is like excelling like crazy. And he transfers in his junior year to a private school called Phillips Exeter Academy.
Kiki Monique
Sounds fancy and rich.
Hoja Lopez
Oh, very fancy, very rich. It’s like one semester is $45,000. Okay, so it’s just like, very, very fancy. But it also is sort of like a high achieving kind of big space. And I mean, my high school was a small house on a hill. So I cannot identify what with this specific thing. I mean, we barely had organized sports. So this definitely feels interesting. And then Andrew Yang went to this school in particular as well. And a ton of people go to this school that then become, you know, Pulitzer Prize winners, Nobel laureates, people who are like in politics..
Mohanad Elshieky
Election losers.
Hoja Lopez
Okay, so this is another interesting thing that I really like about Exeter, is that my fav Roxane Gay went there, too. So you know what I mean? Like, we’ve got some illustrious people that we actually think are cool coming out of there as well. Okay. So another thing just from reading about Mark at this time is he’s like, he can read and write French, Hebrew, Latin, ancient Greek. He’s obsessed with Greek mythology. Like I feel all like, I don’t know, if everybody goes through a phase where everybody’s into Greek mythology.
Mohanad Elshieky
Isn’t the reason he has the hair cut of his?
Kiki Monique 08:01
A Caesar haircut?
Mohanad Elshieky
Yeah, it is. Yeah, he’s obsessed. It’s also like, very surprising to me that he can all like speak all of these languages for a man who literally could barely communicate in English.
Hoja Lopez
From there, he goes into Harvard, aka school for, you know, main character villains. That’s what it feels like anyways, or comedy writers, either or. And so he starts classes in 2002. And I remember when the big scandal about Facemash, like came out, where he basically created a program that lets students select, like the best-looking person between a choice of photographs. So he’s in his second year of college, and he basically bases it off of this hot or not game, but it’s specific to Harvard students. And we, you know, when I think about Facemash, in general, it also gives me again, very sort of like fraternity shitty, like shitty to women. It just gives me those vibes. And again, I think that’s one of the reasons why it’s sort of like went viral inside of Harvard. It has a lot of like, the bad things that we don’t like, that aren’t really kind of acceptable anymore, at least in mainstream society anyway. And generally speaking, I feel like Mark’s personality at that point is very similar to that as well.
Mohanad Elshieky
So you see two pictures of people like, and I assume it’s only women? And then you pick one, and then what happens? Does it like go on, like, in a competition with another picture now? Or like?
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, it would do that. But then it would also, like show you the percentages, like, oh, this person is not. And so it would kind of like rank women sort of based on looks. And I think the thing that’s sort of egregious about it, too, is that it’s a small environment, only of students that are on campus, so it’s like live people that are there. So it’s turned into this kind of like, you know, little sort of insidious, shitty ranking system. But yeah, so it attracts 450 visitors in its first four hours online, and then 22,000 photo views at the same time. So these are just these 450 visitors have viewed the pictures 22,000 times individually, not individually, but like, yeah. So it gets forwarded to several campus group list servers, but then it’s shut down almost immediately by Harvard administration within, you know, the next two to three days. So basically, Harvard is like, you’re facing expulsion now. And he ends up getting charged by the administration with like, breach of security with violating copyrights and then violating individual’s privacy. And I’m like, Oh, my God, what does that feel like? Like, even at the very beginning, Harvard is like, No, you violated privacy, but ultimately, then the charges get dropped.
Mohanad Elshieky 10:56
I’ll just have to say, I just, you know, I wouldn’t say that about anyone except Mark Zuckerberg, but it’s just something so funny to me about Mark Zuckerberg just sitting there trying to decide who looks good and who doesn’t? I’m like, bro. Yeah, it shouldn’t be you.
Hoja Lopez
So this is sort of really the beginning of Facebook. And really, he starts with the Winklevoss twins. So the Winklevoss twins kind of come in and ask him to create what they think is going to be the Harvard connection.com. And then at the same time, as we see on the social network, Mark, sort of like kind of steals that idea and in my mind, I think he’s like, I can do this way better, and I can make it my way. And he sort of like kind of undercuts the Winklevoss twins and goes on to create facebook.com. And so, immediately within its first 24 hours, 1200 to 1500 students signed up for it, which is insane to me. So six days after the launch of the site, this is when we start to see some of the main characters for social network kind of come into the picture with Facebook. So it’s the Winklevoss twins. It’s Divya Narendra, and then a couple of other people but just to kind of start up with this, the Winklevoss twins kind of come in first. And they are basically accusing mark right off the bat of kind of stealing the Harvard connection.com idea.
Hoja Lopez 12:26
So they basically say that Mark Zuckerberg uses their idea to build kind of a competing product. And then the three complaints to Harvard Crimson, which is the newspaper, so then the newspaper begins in the investigation. So it’s just such a strange thing. What happens next, because this is to me, like very clearly an idea of the Mark Zuckerberg personality, which is he then uses Facebook, to find members in the site who are actually members of crimson and then he examines a history of failed logins to see if any of those crimson members have entered like an incorrect password into facebook.com Basically meaning to say, have any of these people who are investigating me aren’t any of them actual users of Facebook, so he ends up being able to on the back end access these crimson members email accounts, and he’s kind of successful at actually like hacking them, which then results in crimson members filing a lawsuit against Zuckerberg which is later settled on. So this guy is already from the very beginning like machinating like he is like so calculated and crazy, right?
Kiki Monique
This is what white people can get away with, this story would have not gotten any further if this was not a white guy because like the minute like the administration stepped in if there was a Brown or a Black person, they would like expelled, goodbye, your life was ruined. But he’s like he gets chance after chance.
Mohanad Elshieky
Yeah, dude, literally doing like cybercrime says that’s what he’s doing. And they’re like, Yeah, Mark, come on, man. And he’s like, okay, I’m sorry. And no surprise. He’s like, literally now doing you know, he’s like a billionaire and doing crimes and like, not even a national level, international level global effects. This is a man no one has ever said no to him.
Kiki Monique 14:20
Yeah, he’s been enabled his entire life. Why would he not be a billionaire, he was set up for this life.
Hoja Lopez
So Facebook is kind of expanding rapidly. It’s moving into other Boston Area Schools and the rest of ivy league. And by the end of the year, the site has 1 million users. And this is when Peter Thiel who ends up being Facebook’s angel investor invest $500,000. And then Zuckerberg kind of like, finally leaves Harvard to run Facebook, from its new headquarters in California. And this is just to go up in your mind as like, he is not yet a billionaire, but he will be a billionaire by age 23. At this point, he’s still again, a junior in college. So this is like beyond our kind of wildest dreams, if that makes sense.
Mohanad Elshieky
Yeah, it’s just so insane to me. Because to me this, this was like a very simple idea. You know, and I don’t know how it’s that different from, I don’t know how it’s different from like, Myspace or something. Because he just took that and like, took it to another level, I guess, just added like some feature like made it easy to use. And I just think it’s interesting how, like, it went worldwide after, you know, it’s no longer like an Ivy League thing. You know, it’s all around the US, all around the world. Everyone is using it.
Hoja Lopez 16:03
Yeah. I mean, I remember feeling like it was exclusive, and like, you have to have that email in order to get it. So I think maybe that was part of the lore at the beginning to of feeling like, oh, fuck, not everybody can be on this. And the fact that it started an Ivy League. So again, there’s sort of an association with feeling like you’re a part of the upper echelon if you get to be on face.
Mohanad Elshieky
And I remember like, at first, you cannot post anything publicly, like in order for you to see anyone’s posts, you have to send them a friend request, and they have to accept you, or else you can’t see anything.
Hoja Lopez
Was also Facebook, like, you know how like, when these platforms usually roll out, they’ll do like invite only access to platforms. And I think that was kind of the first example of it feeling like that, of it feeling like, okay, only you can only get added to it if you either have an invite, or if you have this kind of, if you have this kind of email.
Kiki Monique
I remember when Gmail was like that I was so pressed to get like on the beta like I need to get this invite to Gmail, I was pressed and now that Gmail is one of the problems why I have 300,000 unread emails because I’ve had it for so long. And I don’t use it. And it just collects but you know, now everyone can have a Gmail but yeah, feel exclusive at the time. Yeah.
Hoja Lopez
And you know, at the again, at the same time, Mark Zuckerberg is cutting sovereign out, he’s cutting the Winklevoss twins out, he’s, he’s just on a different level, I think than the people who are users like we don’t understand all these lawsuits, and these, you know, breaches that are happening on the back end. And it just feels like from day one, he kind of knows what each next step is to get to what Facebook is today, which is just, honestly a company that owns a ton of other companies.
Kiki Monique
He definitely knows the next steps. But he’s also at that time, one of those people that believes because he knows how to actually do the coding, that he is worth 100% of the company, whereas like, people who came to him with ideas, and he’s like, Oh, I see that as a good idea. I know how to integrate that and make it work in the system. Whereas you don’t know how to do that. He takes advantage of that, because he’s like, he will steal that idea. And then use it to his advantage because they don’t know how to actually make it happen. And he does.
Hoja Lopez 18:23
Got it. And he ends up cutting these people out, who then file lawsuits back at him. And I see him as somebody who finds those things to be like, nuisances kind of versus like real problems. Which honestly, again, I think is a part of the privilege aspect of it is like, if I get sued, it’s the worst thing that has ever happened to me right now. But even at that age, he is so like, he feels he is deserving of this thing that he created. And the other kinds of ideas don’t actually matter. So when I actually was going over the details of how he cut […] from Facebook and ended up like, diluting his stake, the way that he twists, things, and the way that he invalidate Sovereign’s like accomplishments and what he actually contributed to Facebook, it feels really, I know this people use this word a lot, but it feels like sociopathic. Like it feels like totally taking away reality and replacing it with his own set of value.
Mohanad Elshieky
He’s 100% of psychopath, I have no doubt. But yeah, I mean, I guess we can like talk about like, you know, like how, you know, Facebook was like, very significant in like, a lot of parts of the world, you know, like in in 2010 and 2011, like the Arab Spring and the revolutions that were happening in the Middle East and North Africa, because I remember I grew up in Libya, and I was there at the time. And that was the only form of communication, people like only used Facebook, because the news, you can’t get anything on the news, you know? And you have no access to anything else and Facebook, kind of gave people that kind of like a platform to know what was happening and what was taking place. Because you know, you can create a fake account and just go in and say whatever. And I feel like it was the first time, the government didn’t have a control over something. Because if you shut down Facebook, you can just use like, you know, a VPN or something and still access it. So it was very interesting how it was used in that for that purpose.
Kiki Monique 20:29
And that had to give Mark even more of a god complex because here it is, like, I am literally changing the world, people who couldn’t organize, you know, just a year ago, can now organize politically and make actual change. Like I’m a good person. Love me.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, I think what you say now reminds me of its link into WhatsApp and that encryption and how WhatsApp is, I mean, that’s how I communicate with my family members that are in Latin America is my number one source of communication with people all over the world. And so it reminds me a lot of how it’s almost like integrating into people’s core lives. It’s sort of like a carrier system for information that is now I wouldn’t necessarily call it a crutch. But once you become dependent, basically. And in Venezuela, I mean, like, people use WhatsApp, as I imagine people use Facebook at this time as well, to buy things to trade to barter to get food to in countries where you don’t have resources, and you have to depend on community-based products or community-based support. These, you know, different levels of communication, especially if they’re encrypted and are outside of government reach are pivotal to these people doing what they need to do, not just a revolution, but generally like their day-to-day work even. And I think this is a really interesting time because I feel like then Facebook, which I know a couple years later ends up buying Instagram for a billion dollars, which in essence to me, I mean, Instagram is a huge part of my life right now. Facebook, I don’t care about even though it is the parent company, it’s almost like I don’t give a fuck about AT&T, but I love my iPhone that I have. It’s just like this unseen, you know, partner in my life. But Instagram is huge for me. Do you guys feel I mean, that feels like a massive and important purchase for them. And to me, I think like the signal that they can recognize what’s next, you know?
Kiki Monique 22:32
And they got a deal. I mean, a billion dollars for Instagram. Feels like a slashed price.
Mohanad Elshieky
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And it’s crazy. Because like, when you think about Mark Zuckerberg, you only think of him as a connection to Facebook. But for some reason in your in my brain, at least, he’s separate from Instagram, and he’s separate from WhatsApp. I don’t associate him with these things.
Kiki Monique
Totally.
Hoja Lopez
That’s probably a decision. Like that’s probably an actual, like a decision that they’ve made to not put it under the Facebook sort of brand.
Kiki Monique
It totally is. And like I didn’t even think about Mark Zuckerberg being on Instagram, because I was like, why would he have a profile on Instagram? And so I started following him today because we were talking about him. And I was like, oh, he has a whole life on here. That now I have to dig into. And it’s weird. And I didn’t even realize this was happening.
Mohanad Elshieky
Oh, I’ve always followed them on Instagram like I cannot get enough of Mark Zuckerberg.
Hoja Lopez
He’s pumping out TikTok stories and reels.
Mohanad Elshieky
Absolutely. Love to see what land this man is buying in some native land and just building a house on.
Hoja Lopez
My God. I the idea of Mark Zuckerberg as an influencer is so strange because he is he’s like a huge massive, has a huge massive influence on the world. But to see him reduced on Instagram with his like, family life or whatever. It’s just so interesting when billionaires try to be normal people. It doesn’t quite work.
Mohanad Elshieky 24:10
It’s not he’s and he’s not even interesting villain. He’s not like a […] or something. He’s just so boring.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, he wears the same thing every day. Did you guys ever hear that story about Daniel Radcliffe, where he like for a year out of the Broadway play, which I was about to call Equifax by the way I know that’s not right. But he just wore the same thing every day so that the paparazzi couldn’t sell his pictures. I find that Mark Zuckerberg is probably doing something similar. He’s just trying to take away brain space from clothing. But anyways, that’s my tangent here. But all these kinds of controversies are significant events is I feel like we’re waking up to the influence and power that Facebook has kind of like in the mid-10s. And then finally, we start to kind of see sort of like the ways in which it’s sort of negatively affecting, you know, the relationships with it. And this happens when one of the things that I remember the most is in 2014, which is the same year that it buys WhatsApp, Facebook is somehow then starting to crack down on Facebook profiles of drag queens in San Francisco. And it’s asking them to switch from their drag names to using their real names, and then shutting down the accounts of those who are refusing to comply, which is such a weird, strange like thing. Yeah, because it makes me feel like they want your real information, they want your real attention, they don’t want your persona, they don’t want you to use this as anything except for what we can use for our marketing tools. You know what I mean?
Mohanad Elshieky
They want to sell you stuff. So they have to know as much about you as possible. So a fake name doesn’t really, doesn’t really cut it.
Hoja Lopez 26:16
Okay, so just to kind of keep going through it. So we reach I think, a real cost of when we really start realizing just how insane Facebook is, and the level of reach it has into our lives. And that for me, personally, it’s the 2016 election, and the kind of campaign gearing up to it, where we kind of start hearing, you know, Mark Zuckerberg sort of like trying to distance himself from like, what Fake news is what it means. And, you know, there’s a quote from him that I think is really interesting, from 2016. And I’m just gonna read the quote, full out where it says, personally, I think the idea that fake news on Facebook, of which it’s a very small amount of the content, influenced the election in any way is a pretty crazy idea. So that’s Mark Zuckerberg talking about the sort of fake news phenomenon after Donald Trump really, for everyone kind of unexpectedly won the White House. So this is where Russia starts to come into play. Fake news starts to come into play. And I feel like we reach where we still are right now. Which is like just misinformation era 101. So during the election, like, just go off right off the bat, and admit that I have shared fake news in my lifetime, then found out that it was fake news was immediately horrified at myself, and vowed to never do that again. But do you guys, have you guys ever shared fake news? Like oh my god, don’t leave me alone.
Mohanad Elshieky
I don’t think I’ve ever shared news on Facebook, to be honest.
Kiki Monique
I’ve shared like a fake meme, like a meme. That was like a quote that it was going around about Donald Trump about something he said, like if I were going to run for any party, it would be Republicans because they’re so dumb or something like that. Yeah, it wasn’t really what he said. But everyone was sharing it. And I definitely remember sharing that.
Mohanad Elshieky 28:15
It’s so funny. Like how stuff like that meme, like on both sides, like Democrats and Republicans and you see, like people sharing them as if they were like, facts of life.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, baby. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Mohanad Elshieky
And it’s crazy. Because you know what? It’s so funny to me when you hear like people like are like, you know, Gen X or like boomers or something talk about like younger people, and are like, yet to get all of their information from where? TikTok? What is that? And I’m like, yeah, but you also get your all of your information from memes. Yeah. And now even well design memes, they look bad.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, it is really interesting. Because I guess when I think of like, of sharing, I have this vision that comes to mind of this of who it is, you know, and it usually is, like, people who aren’t necessarily like savvy online, but that’s not actually true, not true at all. It definitely feels like I have like a stereotype in my head of who shares this. Yeah, but it’s a much more widespread problem what I’ve envisioned until now.
Mohanad Elshieky
Now, my dad sends me the worst shit ever on my Facebook inbox is just like, you know, like, send me on Messenger. He’s like, sends me a meme. I remember, especially during like, the beginning of the pandemic. I remember he sent me a picture of a train that said, COVID-19 on it. And it was like, that’s how they brought it in and I was just like, please stop. I was like, literally, if we look into this, your whole theory will just fall apart immediately. I was who sent you this, he was like my friends send it to me and I was like who’s your friend Fauci? It was, truly, truly insane shit.
Kiki Monique 30:10
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I just what I think about all of these just like 60-year old’s that are just online, like sending bad information and finding all day, like, that’s what I feel like what happens when I go home for like the holidays. And, you know, like my mom who, you know, she’ll be friends with these people who don’t have the same political views, but she’s known for, you know, 30 years. So they’re friends on Facebook, and then she’ll just show me all the stuff that, you know, one friend is showing, and I’m just like, and she’ll have her own things I can. So I posted this. And it’s like, this is what they do all day to sort of like post these things back and forth. And I’m like, I need out of this world.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, my mom has definitely shifted into that. But before it was just like her looking for me, that was like, out in the world not calling her back. And so she’s like, posting on my friends pages. Like, have you talked to Hoja? Tell her to call me back. And I’m like, this is me as a full, like, 27-year-old you guys. Oh, my God, my mom is supreme embarrass. Just no woman. Yeah, my mum is definitely also sharing, you know, fake news articles. And just, again, it just all seems like the machine is starting to build, and online is now being like, funneled into it.
Mohanad Elshieky
Absolutely, yeah. And I feel like the funny thing about Mark Zuckerberg and like Facebook, and all of that. I feel like he is the only person that both you know, Democrats and Republicans do not like him. Republicans are like, you keep censoring us, we can talk and you keep like hiding the stuff that we post. And then Democrats, you’re like, well, you literally just tried to destroy democracy with your bullshit. And so he has like, not liked by anyone. And I’ve watched all of the hearings he was in, and truly some of the best comedy I’ve ever seen.
Kiki Monique 32:07
And the saddest part is like they all hate him. But he’s richer than like most of them combined. And so they also can’t do anything about it.
Mohanad Elshieky
He does not care. That man does not give a fuck, he has nothing inside.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah. It’s so weird. Looking at like, how he comments on things is also such a demonstration of like, who he is as a person. Like, when he’s talking about the Harvard stuff. He’s like, well, we’re not forcing anybody to publicize their, you know, information about themselves. And then again, at Harvard, he’s sort of like, will they trust me these dumb fucks? Like, that’s a direct quote from him. So it’s just this thing where it’s like, well, are you apologizing? Because on the back end, it really feels like you feel differently. Like he’s just almost liked a PR move in and of himself. But whenever we get insight into what he’s actually thinking, whether it be because like, his instant messages get publicized, or, you know, all that stuff that happened during like wired or Tech Crunch, or it just seems like when we figure out what’s actually going on, he’s always fucking lying about something. Like it’s never transparent.
Mohanad Elshieky
Absolutely. And I mean, we can get into his Congress testimonial, like hearing. And it was, you know, it was mostly about over Cambridge analytic.
Kiki Monique
So yeah, the Cambridge Analytica stuff was, I would say, I think it’s the first time that people like me who was not really like paying attention to Facebook at this point, but knew what this sort of scandal that had happened behind the scenes. And so it sounds like what happened is, some dude uploaded an app, because I guess if you knew how to code and upload apps to Facebook that was allowed to be done at that time. So he uploads this app, that is a quiz that people can take and it gets information into this app. And part of that app is you link people that you are friends with. And through that linking of the friends, they are can then access those friends profiles, even though the friends did not interact with this app, they now have an access. Yeah, they have access to this app. And so all of that information that this app collected, is in sold to Cambridge Analytica, which is used for the Trump campaign to I guess, target these individuals.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah. And actually, at that time, my understanding was that it was actually for Cambridge Analytica. It was working for Ted Cruz actually, at that time, and they were data harvesting from kind of millions of people’s Facebook accounts, and then it kind of comes out in the intercept and then in 2016, Trump also paid Cambridge Analytica, but this is after the kind of scandal comes out, which is so wild because it’s like even after Cambridge has this horrible reputation, you still have like terrible players that are taking advantage of it. So it’s both like Ted Cruz and the Trump camp.
Kiki Monique
And it’s not just like 1000s of people. I mean, they got information on 87 million Facebook users.
Mohanad Elshieky
And I remember like Mark Zuckerberg then posted about it on Facebook, he posted a Facebook apology, where he basically explained what happened with Cambridge Analytica and the app and all of that, and kind of like, you know, went through the values of Facebook and what they’re going to do in the future. And again, that written apology itself. There was no, really like, there was like, no admission of guilt. The word I’m sorry, was not used. It was again, him explaining to you, you know, what, he assumed that you did not understand you dumb fuck.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah. And there’s a great documentary called The Great Hack on Netflix that goes into detail. It’s kind of like the first feature length media piece on it, it’s a great watch. And it just basically talks about kind of the individuals involved. And specifically, you know, from the basis of one person who was trying to find out like, what Cambridge analytic I had on them, which I think was my interaction with it was like, it was almost like a moment of like, did I get into Harvard? Or was I hacked by Cambridge Analytica? Because it kind of came back as like, yes, you were, you know, your information was, you know, you are in breach or you, you’re a part of this, and I was totally a part of that hack. And it was definitely like, the first time that I felt like, oh, fuck, it’s like reaching into my life, like, I don’t have control over my data. And then I started getting like, pissed off, but not enough to delete Facebook, which is again, story of our lives.
Kiki Monique 36:52
Even if you do get pissed off, you can’t delete it. Because if you want to have an Instagram business profile in any way, monetize in any way, you still have to have your Facebook profile. Trust me, I would delete it easy so long ago, but you’re just, you’re not allowed.
Hoja Lopez
After this whole Cambridge Analytica stuff goes down. We’re all reeling, but then Zuckerberg actually ends up having to testify before Congress, really regarding these concerns over data and privacy breaches. And that’s April of 2018. So it’s kind of the first time in really over a decade that Facebook even exists, where they’re actually having to kind of face some of the consequences. And lawmakers are kind of taking a lot of notice of what’s going on at this point.
Kiki Monique
Well, they have to I mean, at this point, the American public is furious. I mean, we have Donald Trump in office. And all we have is like Facebook is responsible for creating the situation. So yeah, you better get in front, somebody questioned this man, please.
Hoja Lopez
So in his opening statement, before the joint Senate committee, he sort of apologizes and delivers an opening statement. So let’s go ahead and go to that.
Mark Zuckerberg 38:09
Facebook is an idealistic and optimistic company. For most of our existence, we focused on all the good that connecting people can do. And as Facebook has grown, people everywhere have gotten a powerful new tool for staying connected to the people they love, for making their voices heard, and for building communities and businesses, but it’s clear now that we didn’t do enough to prevent these tools from being used for harm as well. And that goes for fake news, foreign interference and elections and hate speech, as well as developers and data privacy. We didn’t take a broad enough view of our responsibility. And that was a big mistake. And it was my mistake. And I’m sorry, I started Facebook, I run it. And I’m responsible for what happens here. It’s not enough to just connect people, we have to make sure that those connections are positive. It’s not enough to just give people a voice, we need to make sure that people aren’t using it to harm other people, or to spread misinformation. It’s not enough to just give people control over their information. We need to make sure that the developers they share it with protect their information to it will take some time to work through all the changes we need to make across the company. But I’m committed to getting this right.
Hoja Lopez
So he kind of like Disney addresses all the issues. I’m gonna call it Disney addressing when you only talk about the top 5% of problems and those 5% of problems are like really nice and tidy. Yeah, it is an opening statement. So the intention is not necessarily to go into it fully. But, you know, he is acknowledging that there are some issues, which is nice, you know, I guess he didn’t necessarily have to do that. But the reality is that the PR issue was so massive that at that point is like okay, there’s needs to be some acknowledgement here in order for people to even believe the next word. that I say, I just
Kiki Monique 40:01
I just feel like at this moment Zuck, is being classic Zuck, right? He knows he’s the smartest guy in the room. And because of that, he just he says, enough to be like, this is what will appease you, but I’m still going to win. But I’m gonna just like, let you have this little thing to make you feel good. It’s the same playbook.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, it seems like is getting questioned for like, almost 10 hours. And it’s like, over the course of two days, but I will be honest, like, it seems like at this point, maybe we’re gonna see some new legislation, like something feels like it’s about to change. But then, based on kind of like, the questions that they’re asking, it feels like nobody actually knows what the hell they’re talking about.
Mohanad Elshieky
Yep, it was your grandparents asking you how technology works.
Hoja Lopez
Genuinely have felt like when I was teaching my grandpa how to download music illegally onto his iPod. It was like going to the basic math level two, I remember they asked questions about data categories about how many users were active, it just didn’t make any sense with what they were actually there for. So I guess in terms of impressions of the congressional hearing, like it feels like, they didn’t really answer questions about actual possibilities of regulation. Like they just sort of like ask questions, and didn’t really come up with a great solution after.
Mohanad Elshieky
Because no one had no idea what they’re talking about. And that was the major issue. No one understand how social media works at the time, you know, maybe now we have a better understanding. But at the time, it was the first time they even like, question someone about that, and like the extent of it, and how something that was supposed to connect it together and just be fun. Now is in the middle of, you know, basically just ruining democracy. And they would like so much to you know, so much to unpack there. And truly, some of the worst people were asking questions, because they had no idea what was happening.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, it definitely seems like the hearings in particular, but it seems like people are impatient, like they’re done. And they don’t want to hear any more lines from Zuckerberg. But it definitely seems like that’s kind of what’s coming out of that. So all this kind of leads up to in January of 2020. It’s like we’ve seen Facebook apologize, like three times a year for, you know, every single thing as they grow as a company. And so I think they decided to change their kind of like PR perspective, and they want to start separating, like who Mark Zuckerberg is from the Facebook brand, which, A, good luck, but B, they sort of decide that Facebook just needs to stop apologizing, like they need to take on a different approach, which I’ll go ahead and call kind of like the Trump approach where they just don’t apologize at all. They don’t acknowledge wrongdoings, and when they do, they downplay the severity of whatever it is that they’ve done. But that ultimately lasts just a few months before Zuckerberg has to apologize, a whole slew of times for kind of new grievances and new things that happen. So in this next episode, or part two, we’ll be addressing the latest gaffes on the side of Facebook. We’ll talk whistleblowers we’ll talk lawmakers, and we’ll see how it’s affecting Facebook in the future.
Mohanad Elshieky
Okay, now, I’m excited for my favorite segment of this episode, which is sorry, not sorry, you guys have anything that you want to apologize for this week?
Kiki Monique
I mean, okay, my apology may be a little controversial, but I feel like I owe this apology. And this isn’t to like, every person who was against vaccine mandates that I know I’m starting this in a weird place. But I will say that I, there’s a comedy show that I really want to go to, it’s in a couple of weeks. And in order to be able to go, I had to sign up with basically a vaccine passport, like I had to enter. I had to do like a facial recognition scan, I had to enter all of my information. And I will just say that it made me feel some type of way. And so I’m just saying I’m sorry, to the people that maybe I was sort of like I won’t say I was making fun of them. But really like I was making fun of them for saying that we’re living in this dystopian future because it really did feel that way for a second when I had to do all that.
Mohanad Elshieky 44:31
I mean, I’m just surprised because I don’t have a comedy show in two weeks. So not sure what show you’re going to. Hey, you know, whatever. I mean, maybe you have other comedians that you’d like?
Hoja Lopez
Well, I will say as a person who had to go through like biometrics and all of that to get a green card and to get into the country. I feel like the United States has my blood on hand. Like I feel like the US has every single thing that they need to regulate where I am at any given moment. So, I feel very much just delivered to the state. You know, what I mean?
Mohanad Elshieky
Absolutely. When people are like the government is trying to track us and I’m like, Oh, they’re just trying to track you right now.
Kiki Monique
Okay, this is fair because I absolutely have global entry. And for a trip to Italy, I had no problem giving it up. But it was just something about going into like a dank basement in LA that I had to give it all up for that made me feel some type of way.
Mohanad Elshieky
So, Hoja, what do you have this week?
Hoja Lopez
Well, honestly, I would like to receive an apology. And you know, usually my humiliations are very small and day to day, but I would like to receive an apology from my dog right now. I feel like she was supposed to make my life better, but right now we’re on a downslope and she’s making my life worse.
Kiki Monique
That’s why you need cats.
Hoja Lopez
That’s okay. You guys may be right but she’s been on a tear lately where she, God, is this out of all the things I’ve said all those podcasts I feel like this may be the most rated R where she not just for Halloween, but in general decides to take tampons out of my trash bag and then sparse them around the house. And could she be saying something about her quality of life? Is this a protest? I don’t know. All I know is that bitch needs to apologize to me. Okay
Mohanad Elshieky 46:31
I think if Hoja’s pets are listening to the podcast, you need to unionize like, you need to be in a union. You have rights. Don’t listen to her.
Kiki Monique
Mohanad, is someone apologizing to you this week?
Mohanad Elshieky
No. But speaking of pets, I want to apologize to my two cats. Because first I had a party at my place, which they did not like, they hated that. I let it people over there were a one of my cats hiss for the first time at someone. And also because we were like, like I had like to costumes. Rosie had like two different costumes as well. So they were very confused whenever we came back from like a party or something as into who the fuck are these people? And yeah, Rosie went as one of our cats Oona she literally just like painted her face on her face. And I don’t think she liked that. She was like, you know, like culture is not your costume. But yeah, so my apologies to them. This will not happen again until next year, obviously. But you know, you got to live with it.
CREDITS
I’M SORRY is a Lemonada Media Original. The show is produced by Alex McOwen, supervising producer is Kryssy Pease. Our executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Our mix is by Kat and theme music was composed by Xander Singh. If you like this show, please rate and review. And please don’t cancel us. You can find out more about our show at @LemonadaMedia on all social platforms, or follow us on Instagram at @imsorry_podcast. We’ll be back next week and until then be nice, play fair and always say I’m sorry. Thanks for listening!