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‘What have I done that is worthy?’ This question lives in my head, rent free. In an effort to continually achieve, I ignore every success I have had. The truth is I struggle with imposter syndrome. Why do I feel this way? Why do so many women feel this way? And why, as we learn in the episode, doesn’t Jaxon feel this way?? Let’s tawk.

Let’s Tawk contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.

Keep up with Jaime on Twitter at @JaimePrimak and on Instagram at @jaimepsullivan. Watch her Facebook Live series – Cawfee Tawk – here. And stay up to date with us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at @LemonadaMedia.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Jaxson, Jaime Primak Sullivan

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:06

Hello everybody. This is Jaime Primak-Sullivan. And you are listening to Let’s Tawk, not to be confused with last season’s Tell Me What To Do. Tell Me What To Do is great. But let’s talk is more about the conversation you wish you had when you needed them. And I am joined by my co-host, Jaxson. Hello. You may know Jackson is my assistant. But also he is a really fresh perspective for me. We are of different generations. Different genders. We’re from different regions. I’m from a widowed family, you are from a broken family.

Jaxson  00:51

Child of divorce but a very happy family otherwise.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:54

Conscious uncoupling.

Jaxson  00:57

you want to get with the Gwyneth Paltrow..

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:59

Who doesn’t want to do that? In retrospect, once you’re not going through it anymore. So much that I want to talk to you guys about it’s so exciting to be back for season two, we have this little setup in our office. And by little I’m not kidding, Jaxson and I are almost sitting on each other’s laps.

Jaxson  01:18

This is like a broom closet.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:19

But you’ve done a great job setting up Jaxson.

Jaxson  01:21

I appreciate that. If the video succeeds. I don’t want comments to be like Jaxson, your lighting is terrible. Just give me a break.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:31

You have no idea what I’ve been through. So I want to tell you this interesting thing. I know we started talking about it this morning, but there is a woman and her name is and don’t give me whatever you said, her name is Whitney Wolfe herd.

Jaxson  01:46

Okay.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:47

You said wolf head.

Jaxson  01:48

I did say wolf head. Excuse me.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:49

It’s Wolfe Herd. But anyway, she turned her vision of a better internet into a billion-dollar brand. But that is not what’s interesting to me. You would think that, you know, her turning a vision into a billion-dollar brand is interesting, and it’s admirable, but that’s not what interested me. What interested me is that Whitney with her ex-boyfriend and some other people started Tinder. Are you familiar with Tinder?

Jaxson  02:17

I am familiar.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  02:18

Tell the folks out there what Tinder is.

Jaxson  02:20

It’s a dating app where you swipe right or left on people’s photos or profiles. Right meaning you do want to date them, Left meaning you don’t. And if you match, it connects you and you can chat.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  02:32

Okay. So she named it Tinder. She came up with the name. Do you know why she named it Tinder?

Jaxson  02:38

Well, my understanding is that it’s like starting a fire.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  02:42

You can start a fire. You can start a fire without a spark. Hey, Bruce Springsteen. Okay, so anyway, she started Tinder with these guys. And it is my understanding that she began to get sexually harassed, and like bullied by the gentleman she was in a relationship with who was also one of the founders of Tinder. And they ended up pushing her out, or she ended up leaving one or the other. She left and she was so affected by the harassment she experienced by an executive who was also her boyfriend. She was dumped and ousted from the company; she went on to sue for sexual harassment. And she was so fucking done with the way that she had been treated, that she started Bumble, which is a women first dating app, it is my understanding that women has to make the first move.

Jaxson  03:44

Yes, after you match, the first message comes from the woman. Unless you’re in like a gay relationship, in which case it’s either.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  03:50

And what I love about it is that mess, her history of toxic relationships. The misogyny of tech, which is coming from this Time article is exactly why Bumble exists. It’s why she designed the app. So only women can send the first message when users match on the platform. And I think her ambition comes from her abusive relationship, which I absolutely love. But what I also love is they ousted her thinking they were going to destroy her. And from the ashes of Tinder came Bumble, which is now a billion-dollar brand. Like fuck you guys. That is the ultimate fuck you. And that is why when I brought it up to you, I was so when you were like, oh, it’s dating. I’m like, no, no, no, no. The story is so much more than a dating app. It doesn’t matter what she started. I mean, it happens to be an exceptionally well-placed fuck you. Because it is a dating app that directly competes with Tinder and fucking blows them out of the water by the way. Well, they’re not a billion-dollar brand. So you can be successful or you can be a billion-dollar brand. And that is exactly what she is. And I love that for her. I also love the fact that she took their shitty behavior and she didn’t become a victim and she didn’t like, what was me. She said, no, no, I know how to do what you are doing, because I helped you do it. And now it’s almost as if like Veruca Salt had opened a bigger, better Wonka factory.

Jaxson  05:43

Sure, she was a bad kid in that movie. But yeah, it’s the ultimate […]

Jaime Primak Sullivan  05:51

And I absolutely love that. And I have the passion. And the idea for that come up into what I lack is execution. That is the truth. I know that about myself. And I struggle very much with like, I have all the mechanics to have a billion-dollar brand, in whatever field I want to have it in. I’m not talking about like, coffee talk. And by the way, if you haven’t listened to coffee talk, it’s my daily digital series. You can find it on Facebook at Jamie Premack Sullivan. But and I’m not talking about you know, I’m talking about even what we do in our daily business together, which is run a production company. I have the same thing Whitney has, I have the knowledge, I have the means. I have the passion, but I lacked the execution. And that is where my imposter syndrome comes in. I struggle very much with that. And I want to say are you familiar with Shawn Mendes?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  05:53

Is he the singer? Camilla Cabello?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  06:14

Okay. I’m not a […] yes, you are okay. But it’s okay. It’s not like a bad thing. And he dated her for three years. And they were together through COVID. And they recently broke up, right. And he is by and large, I would say one of the most successful and popular pop singers right now. I would say he’s up there with like a Justin Bieber and then Ed Sheeran and okay, so like, everybody loves him, and don’t get me started on the gays, the gays, I mean, love him. But he wrote this message. And he says essentially, sometimes I asked myself what it is that I should be doing with my life. And what I always hear in return is tell the truth. I feel like that’s a hard thing to do, though. I’m afraid that if people know and see the truth, they might think less of me. Okay, pause. Wow. Right? Is that not a fear most people have? I am terrified to tell my truth because that leaves me vulnerable to your judgement, right? Okay, Shawn, you better preach? Okay, back to Sean’s message. They might become bored of me. So in those moments of feeling low, I either put on a show or hide. These are called coping skills, Shawn. The truth in current form is a 23-year-old who constantly feels like he’s either flying or drowning. Maybe that’s just what it is to be in your 20s. I don’t know. Or maybe that’s just me. The truth is, I really do want to show up in the world as my 100% true, honest, unique self and not care what anyone thinks. And sometimes I do. But sometimes I really don’t care what people think and feel free. But most of the time it’s a struggle, though. And that’s the truth. Here’s the line that really blows my mind. The truth is, even with so much success, I still find it hard to feel like I’m not failing. I’m hyper focused on what I don’t have forgetting to see all that I do. The truth is I’m overwhelmed and overstimulated. I cannot tell you how much I related to this. Because I too, am hyper focused on what I have not yet achieved and sometimes fail to see what I have achieved. And this stems from imposter syndrome, right, which is a psychological occurrence in which an individual doubts their skills, talents or accomplishments and has a persistent internalized fear of being exposed as a fraud. Despite external evidence of their competence, those experiencing this Phenomenon do not believe they deserve their success or luck. They may think they are deceiving others because they feel as if they are not as intelligent as they outwardly portray themselves to be. This is a phenomenon in the fact that we have a constant updated news cycle, not just in public news, right? Or global news. But in personal news, somebody is constantly updating their Facebook page or their Instagram page or their Twitter feed to say that they just bake the cake or they just rescued a dog or they just ran a mile and you are like, fuck, I have not baked a cake, rescued a dog, and ran a mile today. What the hell am I doing with my life? What have I done today that is worthy? What is gram worthy? What is post worthy? What is Twitter worthy? And if not, what is even worthy to share in a conversation meeting friends with drinks? We are the […] in society. It’s not even generation it is all of us. Even my own mother commented that some friend spent this amount of time with their grandchildren and took them to Disney World and did all of these things. And she was like, you know, I haven’t seen mine and I haven’t done this and it’s like, wow, imposter syndrome is even affecting the grannies. You are 25, do you feel impostor syndrome?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  11:31

No.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  11:32

That is unfucking-believable.

Jaxson  11:34

Well, it is a side effect of having achieved nothing.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  11:39

I’m sorry, I was drinking. And I choked, because that is not expecting, what I was expecting you to say.

Jaxson  11:46

I think it mainly stems from just having, like I have goals, right? I think everyone has goals, like what impostor syndrome is, from having achieved goals. But thinking that you’re the fraud, right? That you achieved them by luck, or by way of someone helping you. I don’t think I’ve achieved even the bare minimum of the goals that I would like to.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  12:11

But I’m talking long term. And let’s play impostor syndrome out. Because this is a tool that I do professionally. And then I’m going to show you know how I do it personally. Because I think professionally is the easiest way to demonstrate my thoughts on impostor syndrome, just because it’s easier to track if that makes sense. So if you look at somebody who creates and produces, right, you can look at me and say, well, she’s successful. She has sold six movies, seven movies. She’s gotten three made, being stars, great partners, right? Yes. By your standards I have achieved.

Jaxson  12:56

You have achieved things I would like to have achieved.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  12:59

Then I look at someone like Seth MacFarlane. Who has created numerous so for those of you don’t know who he is, he created Family Guy. He does all the voices he’s Stewie. But he produces, and he’s certainly successful. And then he looks at someone like Judd Apatow right? Yeah. Who’s created bridesmaids and knocked up and this is 40 and certainly and Girls and Super bad, and Pineapple Express. Right? And absolutely has achieved a certain amount of success yet I have friends or business people who had dinner with him. And his comment was, well, I’ve, you know, sold the show and however many 10 years, right? So like, who is the end? Right? Like who’s the Mecca? Right? Like, where does the imposter syndrome stop? Is it Steven Spielberg? Like the Steven Spielberg look around and go Nope, doesn’t get much better to me. That’s it. I’m the fucking Mecca. I’m the, if you have impostor syndrome, you’re all behind me. Or to Steven Spielberg, look at George Lucas. And go, well, I’ve done a lot, but I haven’t done Star Wars. Right?

Jaxson  14:19

I think Spielberg probably has some understanding that he’s up. If not the top, he’s close to the top of living directors. If people aren’t telling him every day, he may be unconvinced himself, but he definitely hears that I think, but what you’re getting at I think is self-actualization, like the being fulfilled by what you do and what you’ve done. And I it’s, it’s at the top of the pyramid of needs, right? The idea that we need food, but the thing that people need, the last thing you need, that you need for a full life is to feel fulfilled.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  14:54

Right, but as achievement, what is fulfilling that’s, I think, where my personal impostor syndrome comes in. I do want to note that it is interesting that imposter syndrome comes from an article that was published in 1978, entitled the imposter phenomenon in high achieving women, which fucking of course it does, right? And they interviewed 100 women, approximately 1/3, of whom were involved in psychotherapy for reasons besides imposter syndrome, and two thirds of whom knew from their own […]. But all of the 100 participants had been formally recognized for their professional experiences by colleagues, and had some academic achievement or blah, blah, blah. And despite all the external validation, when asked about their success, most participants attributed it to luck, while others believe that people had overestimated their capabilities. And it pains me to think that four generations, generations, women have felt like they have suffered from imposter syndrome. I think it’s only, it’s probably only more recently that men have started to actually become affected by it. And I think social media has more to play with men feeling the impact, right? Of imposter syndrome, but I have suffer from impostor syndrome, greatly in my personal life, for so many reasons. Like, I’m almost afraid to say why, I’m almost afraid because it is such a vulnerable place, because it is an admission of all of the parts of my life that I feel like I am living a lie, but at the same time can justify the lie, if that makes sense. Like in a real way, for example, I am bisexual, and I have been my entire life. And that can be a totally separate conversation. We don’t have to get into that now. But I have never not known me bisexual. Does that make sense? Did I say it right? Okay. So because I have this sexual attraction to women, when I don’t service that, or I don’t acknowledge it, or I don’t honor it, I feel like I am living a lie. It does not mean I don’t love my husband. It does not mean I’m not committed to him. It does not mean I’m not happily married, for the most part. But I do feel like I suffer from imposter syndrome. Because when I speak out for LGBTQ rights, or when I say I am part of this community, or I, you know, whatever it is, I feel like, I’m not given the same seat at the table, because I’ve made certain choices, if that makes sense. Like I married a man, right? So how can I feel victimized or marginalized by negative stereotypes or comments about gays. And so I struggle with that very much. I don’t suffer from depression, but the periods of my life where I have felt more depressed than not, it is the imposter syndrome from my personal life, more so than my professional, because I can’t fix it.

Jaxson  18:35

Now, is this something that you’ve told yourself, you’ve liked your perception is that people will see you as less LGBTQ, because of the choices you’ve made? Or have you been told this outright by like a gay person?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  18:49

I think I probably put a lot of that on myself. Right. And I think I’m collecting that data, that internal data just from the people that are doing the work on the frontlines, you know, and I feel that they are capable of fighting so much harder, and they carry so much of a bigger, heavier burden than I do. And that I think makes me sad, because I know how strong and powerful I am. But it’s like, and so I want to lend that to them and to us, but it’s like how loud can I scream for gays when I married a man? How loud like who is going to listen to my voice? When I’ve made the perceived easier choice? And I struggle with this a lot, like a lot like if you really know me and I don’t know, like my best friend. 31 years of best friendship Courtney in New Jersey, she knows the burden. She’s wiped the tears. It is I think sometimes I become resentful of my straight marriage. Not just that, it’s also that I struggle very much. With monogamy I struggle with, I get bored easily. I like to flirt. I married a man who does not like to flirt. I have been known to seek flirtation outside my marriage, I have been known to seek stimulation outside my marriage. Michael doesn’t give a shit. He’s just not affected by those things. He also really is honest about who he is and what he brings to the table and would rather me flirt with someone else then hold his feet to the fire and say like, if you don’t become the guy who texts and flirts and send selfies and shit, like, I’m going to whatever like he doesn’t want to be burdened by my incessant need to be funny and flirty, and I’m a seven anagram or whatever the fuck it’s called, and I’m a Libra. And I’m […] fuck, right? And so he doesn’t want to be burdened by that. But he also doesn’t want to change me. And thank you, God. I cannot thank God enough. But I do have impostor syndrome when people are like, couple goals. I’m like, no, no, no, we are not because I think more times than not, we just look away from behavior we don’t feel comfortable with because we are too lazy to fix it. Does that make sense?

Jaxson  21:24

I think so. I also think you also going through your day-to-day life have a confirmation bias where every time you kiss Michael on the cheek, it’s like your brain saying, oh, you’re straight. Because you did a straight thing. But that’s just your brain, because that’s what depression is right? Is your brain telling you all these sad things and in the medicine fights it you don’t have depression, but your brain is still designed to be against you to some degree.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  21:48

Well, that’s fucking comforting. Anybody else’s brain designed to be against them?

Jaxson  21:54

Everyone’s just like that. I mean, that’s where dark thoughts come from. They shouldn’t exist, but they do.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  22:00

Well, in going off impostor syndrome. Even Maya Angelou. I don’t think people fucking understand, she is the mecca. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. I mean, she is the woman who gave us the saying, when people show you who they are, believe them. So every fucking meme you’ve seen every white woman who has uttered those words since then, as if they were her own, everyone who’s put it on Instagram, it came from Maya Angelou. Okay. And she even said, I have written 11 books. But each time I think, Oh, they’re going to find out now I’ve run a game on everybody and they’re going to find me out. Other people who have talked openly about impostor syndrome, just so you know, you are in good company. Riz Ahmed, Neil Gaiman. And what did Neil do? Isn’t he a comic book guy?

Jaxson  22:59

He did Sandman, he also did Coraline, to the Graveyard Book. He’s done so much stuff.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  23:06

Tom Hanks little known little actor. Tom Hanks, Chuck Lorre, he did Big Bang Theory. Fucking created Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon. Okay, lesser known. Do you know how hard it is to get a television show on TV? And for seasons and seasons and seasons.

Jaxson  23:31

Young Sheldon just passed 100 episodes.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  23:33

Okay, stop pushing your Young Sheldon. You’re a Young Sheldon pusher that is lesser known. We’re trying to give people what they think.

Jaxson  23:41

Big Bang Theory is over. It’s on the air and it just passed 100 episodes.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  23:46

Big Bang Theory runs in syndication. It’s not over. It’s never over. It’s the fucking science version of Friends.

Jaxson  23:53

I was pointing out that he has had multiple […]

Jaime Primak Sullivan  23:58

Michelle Obama, arguably one of the most influential and successful first ladies we’ve ever had, whether you like or not, whether you voted for her husband or not. She suffers from imposter syndrome. Michelle Pfeiffer. I’m sorry. Really? Emma Watson. […] Oh, Hermione. Okay, fine. There was a CMT special, where they celebrated 25 years of LeAnn Rimes. Do you know who she is?

Jaxson  24:37

You told me like, the other day.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  24:42

And she was also Coyote Ugly. She wasn’t Coyote Ugly. She wasn’t in the movie, but then she had a cameo at the end of the movie where she sang got on the bar with them and she’s saying, can fight the moonlight […] my singing doesn’t but the song does. Anyway, she also sings the yodeling version of Blue. […] I don’t think she was the originator of that song. I think she covered it, but did it in a way, Is that what she sings? Or am I now making it up now? Okay, it’s very hard to do. Like other countries, singers on this special they asked them to do it. And they were all like, and these are famous, like platinum artists who were like, wait, you want me to try her yodel? No, I can’t do that, because it’s very hard. I tried and obviously succeeded and amazing, but so they do this sort of hybrid special where they pick other country, female artists to sing with LeAnn Rimes, and they do her songs, right? So it’s like brandy Carlisle. And it’s Mickey Guyton. And it’s these other artists, right? And anyway, so then after they sing, they sit around and have this conversation, and LeAnn starts to cry, as she says, I sometimes feel forgotten. And the other singers were like, oh, gosh, you are not forgotten. But that is the most honest feeling that women have, when they have achieved a certain level of success, or have achieved anything, right? Even when you’ve had a successful marriage, and you’re 25 years into your marriage. And you see the world around you as everybody’s getting engaged and having babies and celebrating, you know, hitting the 10-year mark, or whatever it is, it’s like, you look back, and I think it’s the evolution of life behind you. And it is hard not to feel forgotten. You know, and professionally, especially, you look at people who, especially in our industry, because we glorify Hollywood, right, and I’m certainly a product of that, right? We glorify any celebrity in any way, shape, or form. That’s like, you know, the video of the guy who tried to get Mike Tyson to fight him because he desperately wanted to be the guy who got Mike Tyson to punch him. But back to imposter syndrome. You know, there was a time where LeAnn was untouchable. She was everywhere on every award show on every radio station, right? And then suddenly, you wake up one day, and you perceive yourself to be irrelevant. And what saddens me is that it took, let’s say, a decade for Leanne to feel that right? But if you look at someone like Shawn Mendes, who is in the highest height of his fame right now, this is as high as he will be. He’s Grammy nominated. He’s touring selling out, arenas. He’s 23 years old. And he is feeling like a failure, feeling forgotten, feeling less than, like, he’s not doing enough, right? How the fuck do any of us escape this? If someone in the in, he is in the vortex, the eye of the success storm, right? And he is suffering from imposter syndrome.

Jaxson  28:37

The alternative is to be like the Kanye West who say, I’m the best at what I do. And then no one likes that. No one finds that appealing, appealing personality, right? So the vast majority of us who are normal people are going to feel that way when we’re successful.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  28:52

So the real sort of option is to do nothing to try to achieve nothing, right? Because if you’re not going to go to like Kanye was like, I’m Jesus, basically. And that’s absurd to me, then what then the option is to do absolutely nothing. And that doesn’t work. Because then you’re not even living, you’re alive, but you’re not living. So I think it’s safe to say that everybody is living with some level of impostor syndrome.

Jaxson  29:27

Or if you’re not currently you will, one day because there are people who are at the very beginning of like, college, even if they don’t have anything to feel that way about.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  29:52

So I’m curious then, how do we live with impostor syndrome? Like how do we help that right? How do we overcome it is I guess what I’m trying to say?

Jaxson  30:05

I think Instagram only makes it worse. I don’t think we have the option of nuking Instagram from orbit. But that would be one way to make it easier on everyone.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  30:14

So I think the first thing is to acknowledge you’re not alone. I would say probably 75% of the world lives with impostor syndrome and the other 25 probably has inflated ego syndrome. If that’s a thing, I might have just made that up. But what people who see themselves like Kanye, or like a Donald Trump, whether you voted for him or not, or whatever, you can’t argue that the man believes.. But you have to like, talk to other people, because I think you’ll realize that the people around you just like you and I are having this conversation. Although you have said you’ve never experienced that.

Jaxson  31:03

I mean, that’s probably not totally true. But I would like to experience more of it. Because it means I’ve done more.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  31:11

Okay, fair. So another thing is to like, and what I try to do in my life, I try is to recognize your achievements and truly smell each rose. Will Packer and I, my partner and a lot of the films that I do we talk about this all the time, we will text each other in the middle of nowhere nothingness to say, what rose, can you be smelling right now? What is something that you have done today? That has been meaningful for you, even if it’s just took time to enjoy a cup of coffee, or reached out to a friend that you’ve meant to catch up with? Like, what is something tangible, that I read a script, I gave script notes, whatever it is, right? Like something tangible. And then what is an achievement you can’t deny? Right? Like breaking in, came from my brain. I pushed that rock up the hill, I had people who helped me I had a great team. But like, that is a success of mine. Nobody can take that away from me. It is real. It is a movie you can watch on a plane, or on, you know, streaming, or whatever the posters hanging in my office, like no one can take that away from me buy the DVD, you can buy the DVD, and you absolutely should. But I’m saying like so when I deal with impostor syndrome and go, I don’t really belong here. It’s like, well, I do though. Because in Hollywood, like and my next movie is coming out in August, God willing, right? If all the pieces fit together, some people work in Hollywood their whole lives and never get a movie made. Yeah, there are writers who have written scripts and have made a living, but they’ve never had an actual movie made. Right. So recognizing your achievements. Oh, and another thing I would like to say that I am working to get better at is brushing off the praise from other people. Because when other people say you’ve done this well or you do this well, even you and I take the time to say like Jackson, you’ve gotten much better at this or you do this really well. You’re like, oh, well, you know, I could be doing you know, it’s easy to brush it off. And that is part of learning to stop and smell the roses. Take the praise and hold it in your hand, metaphorically, you know what I mean? Like, receive it, hug it into you. Because that is a way that you are silencing impostor syndrome.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  33:37

What we do a lot is we make our version of perfection the goal, right? So like for me professionally, if Steven Spielberg is the goal, well, sure. It’s going to be very hard not to struggle with impostor syndrome. If Steven Spielberg is my goal, just because he’s an anomaly. That’s why you’ve got Spielberg. I’m just for folks listening, I’m referencing certain like writers, producers, whatever but Spielberg, Tarantino, Scorsese Sorkin, Nolan. So you’ve got five in a sea of 1000s. Right? So if you are comparing yourself in your life, to let’s say, you’re comparing your marriage to maybe your parents who met when they were in high school and fell in love and married for 60 years, it’s like okay, and happily married and they never fight. Guys, that is the anomaly. That is not the norm. We’ve got to stop comparing our lives to other people’s either, the anomalies. […], you know? The basketball coach was giving a speech to the middle school basketball parents, that I was at the meeting, and he said your child has a better chance of becoming president than they do making it to the NBA. And it’s like, wow, that is humbling. And also probably true. Basically, what he was saying was, these kids are feeling so bad about their ability to play basketball, because their touch point is the NBA. Like, it’s just not going to fucking happen. Does it happen for some? Sure. But the likelihood is, you can’t make it your plan, right? And you can’t use that as your touch point. You can have inspiration, right? Michael Jordan can be your favorite basketball player, okay, I’m showing my age there. Right? Your parents can be your aspiration, marriage wise, right. But it can’t be such that you feel like a failure if you’re not living up to what inspires you. And I think that’s where impostor syndrome comes from.

Jaxson  36:00

I feel like you need more of a Williams sisters approach if you really want to guarantee it. Like you need to be playing from when you can walk. And you just know you’re gonna go the NBA because you don’t have any other options.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  36:11

Right. Like Tiger Woods. But that’s why we can say these names and people know what we’re exactly what we’re talking.

Jaxson  36:19

Michael Jackson for singing, like he did it from the time he was so young. And then he was able to hit notes like no other.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  36:27

Yeah, but anyway, you can’t. Impostor syndrome has two sides to it. And that is, Will I ever be good enough? And also, when I achieve any success, do I really deserve it? And that is happiness, too.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  36:43

When I am too happy in my life, do I deserve this? Do I deserve a husband that loves me? Do I deserve happy, healthy children? Do I deserve this big, beautiful home? I don’t know. I’m so curious what the listeners think? Are you one of the  75% of people who live with some level of imposter syndrome? And how do you push through that? And how do you sort of circumvent that when it starts to creep into your bones? I’d love to know I’d love to hear.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  37:19

Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you like, subscribe, follow all of the good things and tell a friend. We want to build this community. We want to make sure that we’re having the conversations that you wish you had when you needed them and conversations that you may need in the future. So thank you so much for listening, Jaxson, thank you.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  37:40

Happy to be here.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  37:40

And we will catch you on the next episode of Let’s Tawk.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  37:48

Let’s Tawk is a Lemonada Media Original. Our producer is Jorge Olivares. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Jamie Primak Sullivan. Mix and scoring is by Veronica Rodriguez. Music is by Dan Molad. Please help others find the show by rating and reviewing wherever you listen. Catch my series Cawfee Tawk on the Jaime Primak Sullivan Facebook page. I’m also on Twitter at @JaimePrimak, and on Instagram at @JaimePSullivan. And follow at @LemonadaMedia across all social platforms. If you want more Let’s Tawk, visit Lemonada Premium only on Apple podcasts.