Let’s Tawk with Ann Wilson

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Ann Wilson is undeniably talented. When I was a teenager, I would wait by the radio for her songs to be played and was just constantly blown away by the sheer power of this woman. Her voice alone allowed her to breakthrough as a female rockstar in a time that was dominated by men. With her newest album, Fierce Bliss, that power is coming through as strong as ever.  Did she ever doubt herself? Where did she get all of her confidence? Ann Wilson and I tawk.Let’s Tawk contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.

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Jaxson, Ann Wilson, Jaime Primak Sullivan

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:00

We all know there’s a lot going on in the world right now. Lemonada Media has a show that can help make your world a little better. It’s called NEW DAY. Therapist and author Claire Bidwell-Smith is the host and three times a week she’ll give you tips to improve your life. Things like dealing with anxiety, how to find a therapist, and how to handle grief. Yes, please. While you’re listening to me search for NEW DAY on your podcast app. Then click follow so you don’t miss an episode.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:33

Hello, everybody, and welcome to this week’s episode of LET’S TAWK. I am your host, Jaime Primak Sullivan.

Jaxson  00:39

And I’m Jaxson.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:45

On this week’s show, we have Ann Wilson now I know that you know who she is now because we’ve been talking about it for weeks and I’ve been so excited. I am curious what your exposure to and prior to this coming up had been.

Jaxson  01:03

So, on a name basis very little did not recognize the name of either her or the band heart.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:10

Okay, you have to stop. You had not heard of the Band heart?

Jaxson  01:18

Now had I heard songs by Heart? Yes, barracuda, especially, I could play on Guitar Hero or maybe Rock Band one of those games.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:26

Are you fucking kidding me right now?

Jaxson  01:27

That’s what I knew it from. And I love that song.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:31

You know, Heart from Guitar Hero?

Jaxson  01:36

Or Rock Band. It’s one of them. But yeah. Those have great libraries on them, those games.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:44

Okay, well, admittedly, I’ve never played one of those games.

Jaxson  01:47

And admittedly, I was born in 1996. When I don’t even like I don’t know if they’re even together that time.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  01:54

Okay, literally. I feel like there are so many Heart songs.

Jaxson  02:01

Now. Also, if you were to, like, if you were to play another song of hers and say, do you recognize this voice? I would say yes. That’s the voice behind Barracuda or something like that. Yeah.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  02:12

You know, I guess it’s like, sure. Okay. You know what I mean, I guess?

Jaxson  02:19

I mean, I could quiz you on Post Malone songs right now. Circles is great.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  02:24

It is great. And I’ve also seen Post Malone in concert. Have you seen Heart in concert?

Jaxson  02:28

No, I haven’t even seen Post Malone concert. I’m so jealous of you actually.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  02:32

Post Malone was like, the last concert I saw before the world shutdown. Was

Jaxson  02:37

Was he amazing? I mean, okay, so see, this is the thing.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  02:43

She walked back and forth on stage smoking cigarettes while he sang, so, if that’s amazing to you, then he was amazing. Yes, but I don’t think you’ve lived unless you’ve seen certainly the greatest female rock voice of our time, arguably top five rock voices of all time.

Jaxson  03:03

Yes, since we’ve been working to have her on the show. And I’ve listened more to her and to some of the cover she’s done of songs that I do recognize also and also her original songs. Her voice is undeniably insane. And here’s something interesting, because we work in movies, primarily. Except with remakes and reboots. You don’t get covers of movies very often. So you can’t give that kind of tribute to an artist the way.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  03:31

it’s like, she is like, in my opinion, like the Tarantino in that who’s going to cover Tarantino, who’s going to remake Inglorious Bastards, who’s going to remake what’s the moment Travolta and homegirl? Like who’s going to do that? No one. I remember sitting in my kitchen, listening to the radio, and waiting for the DJ to play the song that you want to hear. I was 14 years old. We still had DJs and it had a video that made me super uncomfortable. Because the song was like basically about a woman who just wanted a man sperm. And the video was like about a woman who had sex with a man a one night stand and got pregnant. And years later runs into the man and the man looks at the sun and is like wait a minute, which is really manipulative if you think about it, but very progressive for the time. Anyway, you know what, she was probably thinking we’re tired of being taken advantage of now it’s your turn. All I want to do is make love to you just one night. Okay, for all we knew, anyway. You know, the band was such a huge part of like my  music influence but really an I mean, no disrespect to her sister, you know, also obviously a very important part of the band, but Anne was just, I had never seen a woman who was so undeniable. Like, there was nothing about her that men could argue away or dismiss in any capacity because she was so much more talented than they were, that it was like fuck, like, at a time where women were, you know, she was putting out music at the same time, like Samantha Fox was putting out music and Cyndi Lauper and like, you know, different kinds of music was coming to the forefront in the late 80s. I mean, you had obviously, like, women like Janet Jackson, who were tremendous success, but coming from, like a family of very successful singers. You had Madonna who was an anomaly. Definitely can’t sing like Ann Wilson. I mean, Madonna was never known for her vocal. She was just provocative. I don’t know if you know, Madonna in the 90s, but.. Oh, my god. That was great. But, you know, she never had to do any of those things. You know, there weren’t a ton of female artists that cut through the noise to make the men listen. No, man. Mick Jagger was never intimidated. Not intimidated. But like, he never was like, fuck Madonna’s putting out a new album, I better step up my game. You know what I mean? Like, but Ann Wilson, putting out an album is like, holy shit. Like, do I want to hit the rock charts at the same time Ann Wilson is? Not really. Maybe we postpone a week. And give her a week to blow everybody out of the water. I mean, Barracuda is like, with Ann, I was like, oh, well, you really can be better. You can just naturally be better. And you can just, like, dominate. You don’t have to sleep. You know, like, you don’t have to sex your way to that, you don’t have to. Because I was like, a late bloomer. Late, I was the last one of all my friends to get my period. I was the last one of all my friends to have sex. So to be able to feel like to have that part of me like, tuned in to a front woman and go like, holy shit. She’s so good. That nobody can argue that she’s that fucking good. And I just am excited to talk to somebody who has that place. because so few people, people, and especially women have that much undeniability, is undeniability a word?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  08:07


Jaime Primak Sullivan  08:07

Is that an adjective as I used it?

Jaxson  08:09

Well, undeniable would be an adjective, undeniability will be a noun.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  08:13

Okay, so I never use words right. That’s what we’ve learned. We have a sort of personal connection because my, one of my mentors in the business, her daughter is in like music PR. And her daughter actually works on the label side, or the I think it’s the label side of the company, that put a new album which is called Fierce Bliss, which we’ll talk to her all about. Put it out. So she actually was able to help connect us which is so exciting, especially because, you know, we’ve wanted to work together forever. She and I and now, you know, when she heard that I was doing a season two of the podcast and she knows what a fan I am and she knew and was putting out Fierce Bliss and was going to be doing press to promote it. She said, You know, like, this is the perfect time to be able to work together. So I’m very excited. I’ve loved the album. I was so grateful for the download. And I’m very excited to hear sort of the process and, and how some of, you know, those songs came to be and just thank her for the fact that she’s still doing this when frankly, she doesn’t have to.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  09:34

So first, I want to just compliment you on the people you surround yourself with. You have surrounded yourself with the most responsive, kind, patient people and I believe your assistant maybe it’s your assistant is her name Emily.

Ann Wilson  09:53

Yeah, Emma Jane.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  09:55

Or Emma Jane. Yeah, yeah, well, she helped facilitate my girlfriend’s and I being able to see you during COVID, which was not easy in New York, and was so wonderful. And I have to tell you like the experience, a lot of times when you deal with celebrities and their teams, there’s a lot of sort of, like, ego and barrier, and she was just so pleasant and like, good at her job and happy to be there. And also, I know this is sort of, I’m putting the cart before the horse, but I want to say it before I forget, the band that I saw you with. Over COVID in 2021 was fabulous. Your band is fantastic.

Ann Wilson  10:48

Yeah, I know. I know they are.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  10:51

And your loyalty for your band. I don’t know if that group that you were with was new for COVID or if that’s the band you’ve recorded this album with, but your keyboardist, he’s kind of got like shaved hair on the sides and maybe like big dreads or something

Ann Wilson  11:07

Big love dreads. Yeah, yeah. So you must have gone to the city winery shows, right?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  11:14

I did. Yes.

Ann Wilson  11:16

Yeah, that’s Paul Moak. He gets a lot of, sort of breathless girls around him, you know, that go like, you are the most beautiful man I’ve ever seen, you know?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  11:29

Tell him I said hi.

Ann Wilson  11:31

I’ll tell him. The real thing about him is that he can play incredible guitar. He owns a studio. He’s a producer, he plays keyboards. I mean, he’s just, he can sing. You know, it’s he’s just a triple, quadruple threat.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  11:48

And I noticed when you were singing, he had so much joy in singing, but he wasn’t singing into the microphone. He wasn’t trying to sing. Like with you, per se. He just seemed to love what you guys were singing. And it was, it’s so nice to see. It just didn’t feel like a regular gig. It felt like for him. He was excited as excited to be there as we were anyway. I just wanted to say that to you because a lot of times, you know, people like to tell us the bad about our teams. But they don’t always tell us the good. So I wanted to just share that with you.

Ann Wilson  12:25

Well, thank you, I will pass it along to all of them that. And let me say that so far. I don’t think I’ve done a gig with those people who that has seemed like a normal gig, you know, I mean, they all seem, they’re all different. And each one seems to get a little bit better, you know, and everyone’s excited to be there. So it’s a great thing we got going on.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  12:48

So you may not know this, but I’m actually in Birmingham, Alabama. And I’m from New Jersey, but I live in Birmingham. And you’ve recorded Fierce Bliss in Muscle Shoals, right?

Ann Wilson  13:01

Yes. Yeah.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  13:03

And for those of you listening who don’t know what that is, it’s a very, what is it called Muscle Shoals, the actual studio or that’s the town that it’s in?

Jaxson  13:13

I believe it’s the town.

Ann Wilson  13:15

It’s called Fame studio.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  13:17

Fame studio. So it’s a very famous studio. And what did you think of Alabama? I’m so curious.

Ann Wilson  13:25

Well, I’ve been to Alabama many times over the years with Heart, you know?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  13:29

Yes. I saw you here.

Ann Wilson  13:32

When you’re in the studio, in Muscle Shoals, Alabama, it’s not, you weren’t likely to go out. You know, looking around that much. You’re just focused on work. So I can’t answer that with a current observation. But in the past, you know, it’s always been a really amazing rock experience that I’ve had there. People just love their rock, you know, they’re down and they want to just kick out

Jaime Primak Sullivan  13:57

Jam. They love it. I saw you guys when Heart came through a few years ago. And I bought a tank top and I love it.

Ann Wilson  14:11

Ah, with Brandi Carlile, right?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  14:14

Yes. That was actually my first exposure to brandy Carlisle. I had never heard her music before I saw her open for you guys and I was blown away by her now of course, you know, she’s in the rotation and I’ve seen all the stuff she’s done with Courtney Cox which I think ironically is funny also from Alabama. Yeah. So I was sent Fierce Bliss and didn’t really know I didn’t have any preconceived notions about it at all going into it. But I was amazed at what a musical Journey this album is for listeners. And I know that’s why I’d like to think I mean, I make movies, which is, you know, the same similar type of hope, I think and aspiration and creation is, what will people feel when they watch this movie? And I would assume that when you’re releasing an album, you’re hoping that it’s based on an audio experience, what are people going to feel when they hear this music, right? And the influences were I listened to one song, for example, greed, greed to me, you know, you listened to it. And if you grew up in the, I was in high school in the 90s, and the Stone Temple Pilots sort of feel of music, and you listen to greed, and you go, I know where this feeling lives in me when I hear this song. It’s a little honoree. It’s a little angry, right? It’s a little like, I mean, that’s the best way I can describe it, almost gritty. Am I onto something? Is that how you felt when you made that song?

Ann Wilson  16:07

Yeah. And my guitar player, Tom Bukovac, when I showed him the words, and we were just, we were on a tour bus, and he came over and with just a little acoustic, and I showed him the words and he just said, oh, yeah, you mean something like this? You know, and, and it just easily came out of his fingers. He’s a pretty rough guy. Sensitive But rough, you know? And so I think that his soul is reflected in that song, too.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  16:42

I hope that you take this in the fucking, just amazing, spirit, like, loving way in which it’s intended, but you are the most, the gutsiest vocalist that I have ever followed, listen to, supported, promoted, loved. And I want to explain what that means to somebody who is a creative in a different field, but has looked up to you. I don’t mean gutsy, because you’re a trailblazer. All those things are true. But, and it might be because you’re a Gemini and Gemini women are really like fucking gutsy. And like, they love they’re so comfortable at center stage. They just are. But you do covers and you do, I’m sweating now because I’m so excited. I’m taking my sweater off. You do covers and you’ve done them always. You’ve never shied away from covers. You’ve always and but you do the most ambitious covers of any vocalist that I know. There are certain voices in rock by the way, yours being one of them. But there are certain voices and rock that like if I was a singer, and I don’t know why I sound like Ross Geller right now. I think it’s because I’m so nervous and excited that my voice is like 10 octaves higher than it normally is. But, you know, there are certain voices in rock that most people think. I don’t need to cover Freddie Mercury. I don’t need to do that. I don’t need to cover Steven Tyler because that’s fucking nearly impossible. Like, I don’t. Who was the other one? I was telling you. It was Freddie Mercury. Oh, Robert Plant. Yeah, let me just go out there and sing Robert Plant in front of them. And arguably, better different. I’ll give that you know, better different, right? But you, there doesn’t seem to be a muscle out there that intimidates you. Like, I just can’t. It’s almost as if you know, people ask like Ann, do you know how great you are? Do you know how fucking amazingly talented you are? And it’s almost as if you don’t ever have to answer that. Because you cover like voices that arguably are some of the most iconic difficult voices to cover. Like how do you make a choice to cover love of my life by Freddie Mercury and feel so confident.

Ann Wilson  19:41

For me, it’s not about the muscle of the voice. It’s about the soul. So those are the covers that I choose to do. I mean, ones where the soul really completely just kicks out, you know, opens up and lets it go. Robert Plant, was what I learned on way back when I was in my early 20s. So well, in fact, back then I was in club bands and bar bands, right? And honing my craft in those days and how you learn how to do that is just by back then was just by singing all the songs that were being played on the radio. So I’ve got no, I’ve got no problem doing covers at all. It’s how I learned and but it’s, it’s difficult choosing a cover to do because there’s a fine line between just doing an old song over again and making it your own, you know, and if you’re on the wrong side of that line, it could just be old people doing oldies, you know, which is so uncool. And then or it can be, wow. Like, opening up the book of this song again, you know, and see what’s really in there. Like reading a book again.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  20:55

Well, because of you. There are a slew of people who know Rooster, who would never have listened to Rooster. I mean, that’s just the truth. They weren’t. Or it were I mean, Alice In Chains is an acquired taste. You know? If you’re not a 90, if you weren’t if you weren’t listening, if you were listening to more like Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch and not The Grunge way of 90’s, you miss that. So, forget Jason playing the drums. I get all the sentimental value, the course. Okay. I have to know. Do you go back and watch your tribute to Led Zeppelin for the Kennedy Center Honors? Do you ever go back? Do you ever just YouTube it? Just like add an hour and go fuck, I am so fucking good. Holy shit.

Ann Wilson  21:43

No, I never do that. But I’ll tell you, it’s impossible to escape at some times because it keeps getting, you know, it’s people post it. And maybe I go to a party and the host knows I’m there. So they play it for everybody in the house. You know, so I’ve seen it a bunch of times now. But to be fair, when we were actually doing that performance that night, we were on stage, we could not see the Led Zeppelin guys up in the booth. And we could just barely see Obama and Michelle up there. Because of the lights and everything. So I didn’t get to really witness the response until I saw it on YouTube. Like everybody else later.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  22:26

I tried to be sensitive to creators, especially because Fierce Bliss is so good. And I’m gonna get back to that in a second. But you know, I just think that covers are so interesting. And you’ve done such a beautiful job with them. Because you can tell you really love to do it. And it’s so interesting, because I’ve heard, I’ve heard people do covers of your songs as I’m sure you have a million times. In fact, you just sang with Kelly Clarkson, which we saw by the way and was great. And, you know, Kelly is a voice. A voice that, you know, a lot of people have said, if there was a, there’s always those drinking games in music, like if you could pick five artists to cover Ann Wilson you know, who would you pick? Sort of like fantasy? I guess what do you guys do Jaxson, fantasy football, fantasy baseball. Yeah, it’s like fantasy rock. Like Pink. And Kelly Clarkson. And so you hear people do covers of your music. And it’s good. I’m not saying it’s not good. It’s just again, it’s so ambitious. When you’re still putting out music that sounds like greed. You know, you’re still putting out albums where the journey of Fierce Bliss. I know you wrote it during COVID. And good for you for being able to figure out something creative during COVID. Because all I could do was puzzles. All I could do was puzzles and bake, and bake cookies, because I have young children still. But, so you wrote this album. And you talk. In other interviews, you’ve talked about how you were writing more on this album than any other album. Was that simply a byproduct of like, you were ready? Or was it like, I can’t be around anybody else right now. It has to be me.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  22:26

It was both. And also, the third element was that there was nothing happening. And it was just day upon day of silence and peace and serenity, you know, for a long time, just me and my husband. And so, that was a good thing. And I didn’t have that chaos, that big cross section of energies that happens on the road.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  25:03

Because your children are grown, right?

Ann Wilson  25:05

Yeah, one’s 32 and one’s 23.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  25:08

So, weren’t dealing with like, my children are 11, 13, and 14.

Ann Wilson  25:13

No, when yours finally fly the coop, you’ll have time to.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  25:19

Yes. I don’t know that I’ll write an album as good as Fierce Bliss. But it’s not to say that I won’t try. How long does it take to write an album?

Ann Wilson  25:28

It’s not the writing that takes the time. It’s the whole process of conceiving the song like thinking what it’s going to be trying to just writing everything you can and then going back and making sure it’s good. tweaking it. Then getting into the studio, which can take months sometimes. So I’d say anywhere from a month to six months to get an album done.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  25:55

That’s a lot shorter than I thought. I’d say, I don’t know that much about music. The cover art is gorgeous.

Ann Wilson  26:02

Thank you. Roger Dean.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  26:05

it is gorgeous. And, you know, I grew up in the era of like, vinyl, you know, like we had actual albums. And long after the album itself was scratched and played out, we had the album slides or whatever you call them. You know, where I’m trying to show people but they can’t see me. Those of you that are grown and sexy. You know what I’m talking about, the album sleeve. We had those tacked into our walls. I mean, they were like.. I’m so curious. In your, so you have a birthday coming up. June 19th. If I remember correct.

Ann Wilson  26:59

Exactly right. Yep.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  27:00

So what are you? Are you a birthday girl? Do you enjoy celebrating? Do you hope? Do you wake up and say, okay, a quick Happy Birthday and let’s move on or you like, let’s go to dinner? Let’s have a party. Like what do you love to do?

Ann Wilson  27:14

You know, I’m pretty philosophic about it most every year, on June 19th, I’ve been on the road, you know, and the band and crew will do something for me. Like they’ll bring in a cake to the rehearsal room or something like that. And it’s always really interesting, on stage on my birthday, because you look out and see all these signs that say things like, keep rocking old gal, you know? Like, still rocking, you know, and so that kind of stuff is that gives you pause, but not much. Because what’s the alternative?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  27:53

You were actually born in a beautiful year.

Ann Wilson  27:56

Yeah, I think so too.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  27:57

You really were, I mean, musically, you were influenced by just in the year you were born and people can Google it. I don’t need to say it unless you want to say it. But musically, you were exposed the first 20 years of your life to some of the most pioneer, I don’t even know if that’s a word. Just Hendrix on the guitar and Janis was so, I used to play Janis in high school, my mother used to come in and go, turn that sound. She’s always screaming. And I just I loved her and, and the Beatles, and then like, even, you know, Zeppelin, as we discussed, but also, you know, and then you came in, and slit in so beautifully. To all of that. And I think, if I had to guess there must have been so many men who were like, fuck, she’s just undeniably that good. Like, how like, it wasn’t even listen, you’re a beautiful woman. And you’ve aged beautifully. And all of those things. You have the most impeccable French manicures of anybody, your nails always look phenomenal. Always. Whether I see you on stage, whether I watch an interview, you just you have gorgeous hands, gorgeous fingernails. So I just have to tell you that. Your talent at a time where it was like you could have one woman at a time, you know? They were probably like, you know, I hear women in country music always like, you know, we can never get them to play country, you know, women and country and I’m thinking do you think it’s easier for women in rock? Like, do you think Ann Wilson and Joan Jett just walked into the radio stations and were like, play our music and they were like, okay, okay, right. Okay, sure. Like, do you think they were bumping Zeppelin and Steven Tyler and Freddie Mercury to play? No, it was one woman at a time. And that was happening to women all over the place. And now you are, like, still better than 90% of the men who do what you do. And that’s not like a, I’m a you know, this isn’t a Vagina Monologues. I’m not like a man hater. I love men. I love men. I do. I love them. They’re fucking amazing. But also, undeniably, you’re better than 90% of the men who do what you do. And the fact that you can put an album out when you are turning this beautiful leaf on June 19th. That in my opinion, is better than 98% of what is offered to us currently speaks volumes about the gifts that have been to bestow to you and not just your vocal gifts, but your writing gifts and the way you treat people. And the way you carry people in this industry with you. There has I know a lot of people in our business. I’ve never heard anybody say a bad thing about you ever.

Ann Wilson  31:19

Well, thank you, thank you. I’ve never wanted to really compete. I just have always thought that the music will speak for itself. And you know, if you listen in the right way, the songs tell you what to do. And they take the lead, you know?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  31:37

Yeah, and how to feel. And it’s true. I was listening to your music. I don’t know that I’ve said this publicly or not. But I was listening to your music while I was slowly recovering from COVID. And I was like, I know this sounds kind of sentimental. But it was like listening and I was like, okay, I can still feel like, I don’t know if you had COVID, but.

Ann Wilson  32:04

I did.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  32:06

Okay, it made me feel very gray. Very gray. Very blah. And it scared me, Ann, I’m not gonna lie. It scared me because I, I was a little afraid for a few days. Would I feel anything again? Like, I was so gray at one point that I was like, is this depression? Like, what is this? No, I was listening to your album, over and over on my very slow walks. And I would each listen, I would go into it with a different task for my brain. Like, okay, who does she, not your voice. But what area of rock does this song call you to feel? This is very Stone Temple Pilots. She was probably angry. And a little honoree when she wrote this. Oh, this sounds more like Steely Dan, or something a little softer. This, she must have been, you know, Blackwing it’s a little more hopeful, a little more peaceful, a little more. Like maybe she was feeling whimsical when she wrote that, like, what are the feelings here. And, you know, it is not easy to do what you do. And you have done such a beautiful job of very, you’re very Frank Sinatra approach, in my opinion, as someone who has just loved you peripherally and admired you and looked up to you. You’ve done it your way you really have and you continue to do it your way. And it is evident in fierce bliss. And it is evident in the fact that you Gemini woman are able to still approach covers with the with the originality and the gusto. Like, I would never think to if I was covering Freddie Mercury, which by the way, I would never do. But if I was going to do it, I would never think let me call Vince Gill. Yeah, right. Like that, to me is just, it’s just like, I would think shit, I need a I need a massive voice on this. I need to and then I realized, no Jaime, she is the fucking massive in this. She doesn’t need that. So, I just want to leave you loved and seen and heard. I want you to know how just for women, and I’m not in your industry. So I can’t tell you you’ve trailblaze that road for me. But you’ve trailblaze so many other roads for me. And I just don’t, I just don’t want to say goodbye without saying to you, like we’re out here. We love you; we’re still listening. And we feel because of your contribution. And for some of us who are dealing with mental health issues or virus issues or marriage issues, or whatever it is. The gift of feel is so fucking important. And I’m sure I’ve said a lot of F bombs more than most people you talk to, but man.

Ann Wilson  35:19

I’m surrounded by many F bombs, it’s okay.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  35:23

So, I’m not offending you. And it’s great. You know, it’s great that you have a sense of humor about all of it now, and I, you know, I always sort of viewed you as this serious woman. And I don’t know where that came from. I guess in my own mind, I assumed you had to be very serious to be as successful as you were, that you couldn’t laugh or have fun.

Ann Wilson  35:46

No, there is a lot of seriousness in me, but I come from a family that really believed that if you didn’t have a sense of humor, then there was something wrong with you, you know? Wat’s the matter?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  36:01

What’s the matter for you? Your parents? Have they passed?

Ann Wilson  36:04


Jaime Primak Sullivan  36:05

Did your mother like get the opportunity to understand the mega placement you have in rock? Like in music in general? Like, do you think she lay down at night and was like, shit, I did that, I created Ann and Nancy Wilson, I did that. Hello, I’m the real hero here.

Ann Wilson  36:27

I think she did. But she wasn’t always real happy about it, because she felt that the entertainment industry was really superficial and full of potholes and dangers, you know? And it’s because she had grown up with Judy Garland and that generation of female singers, you know, who didn’t do so well, you know, they were extremely talented, but they fell victim to their demons. So she had both I think, she had, she was proud and she was worried.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  37:02

Right? Like any mother. Yeah, by the way, all mothers are proud and worried simultaneously there. their entire careers as mothers. I’ve been a mother for 14 years. And I don’t know that I’ve had a day where I wasn’t worried. Congratulations on not only this album, but surviving your marriage, surviving COVID. You know, it is it was a jungle in this habitat. It was hard out here for a pimp as they say, and being in a marriage on lockdown. Either brought you closer, or people were falling apart at the seams. And you guys seem to have done really well. And I love that for you, it made us grow. We did too. Another thing I have not shared with my listeners or my audience, but my husband and I have decided that my oldest is entering high school this year, and I will be entering a semi-retirement after 30 years of working. Because I know Jaxson, my assistants like wait, what? But we really grew. And so anyway, I do hope that I can buy you and your husband a ticket to my next movie. In August, you guys can enjoy my contribution. And I can continue to enjoy yours. Thank you for all of it. And for those of you listening. Fierce Bliss is, it really is a masterpiece of feels well, thanks. And I am so grateful that you shared it with the world. And will you be going out on tour again?

Ann Wilson  38:44

Yes, we’re leaving in about a week.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  38:45

Oh, okay. She’s like they’re outside now. My bags are packed. I love your black sneakers that you perform in. Oh, thank you. Your business in the front party on the bottom. It’s so great. Like not sexy, sexy, but like beautiful dress on the top. Comfortable sneakers on the bottom. Let’s be sensible. I’d love it.

Ann Wilson  39:08

Yeah, gotta move around.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  39:10

I love it. I will see you again on the road. Congratulations on all of it.

Ann Wilson  39:15

Thanks for having me today. It’s been really cool.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  39:21

Okay, so quite honestly, one of the gifts that conversation gives us is the opportunity to be able to tell another human being the impact they have made on you in any way shape or form. Right, like conversation and having conversations that we need. Especially like when, like conversations. The whole reason we do Let’s Tawk is the conversations we wish we had when we needed them. Sometimes part of that is telling someone else what they’ve meant, what they mean. And I am just, am I high? Like, is this an outer body experience?

Jaxson  40:06

There’s some dopamine in your brain.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  40:09

It’s fucking dope. Yeah. Anyway, I am so grateful to my team at Lemonada for helping make this possible, for the people who listen every week unwaveringly so and to you Jackson for sitting here with me and like keeping me grounded. And to Ann Wilson who let me just love on her and, and my voice What was that it was all over the place. My accent was coming in and out. It was almost like I had shaky Wi Fi in my vocal cords. I hope that you all enjoyed this conversation, listening to this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it. I don’t think that’s humanly possible, but on the off chance, and if you have not yet listened to Fierce Bliss, do yourself a favor. Her cover of missionary man is fucking great. Her greed is a great it’s a very, like I said very Stone Temple Pilots kind of feel and you couldn’t hear this Jackson, but she didn’t push back on that, which tells me like I was spot on about where she was when she wrote it and what fit you know, but it’s all good. It’s all good. Just the album is good, you know? And the thing is, is that you know if you can appreciate her contribution without comparing it to the nostalgia or impact of heart, right? Because I know it’s hard for people to like go well, all I want to do is make love to you and make such a fucking banger. And it is and it was and she’s not negating any of that by doing just like Belinda Carlisle didn’t negate the GoGo’s, like you can, when you are that gifted, you have an obligation to share it with the world. And she has done so generously again in this album and I think people are going to love it. So thank you so much guys for listening to this episode of Let’s Talk. As always, rate the episode like, subscribe, share, I don’t know all the cool things you can do with the podcast. Tell all your friends about it. And thank you to Ann Wilson for being my guest. It was fucking rad.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  42:26

Let’s Tawk is a Lemonada Media Original. Our producer is Xorje Olivares. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Jamie Primak Sullivan. Mix and scoring is by Veronica Rodriguez. Music is by Dan Molad. Please help others find the show by rating and reviewing wherever you listen. Catch my series Cawfee Tawk on the Jaime Primak Sullivan Facebook page. I’m also on Twitter at @JaimePrimak, and on Instagram at @JaimePSullivan. And follow at @LemonadaMedia across all social platforms. If you want more Let’s Tawk, visit Lemonada Premium only on Apple podcasts.

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