Moving Our Cheese

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June and Jessica are abuzz with change as they make a big announcement! To catch up their new listeners, they harken back to the early 00’s when they met at the UCB and Jessica had a fondness for capris pants and June was as bald as an eagle. June makes the shocking announcement that she is now a woman who wears BELTS and Jessica asks the question, is the age of her ass the same as the age of her face? Remember Deep Divers, don’t be afraid to see what’s on the menu!

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June Diane Raphael, Jessica St. Clair

Jessica St. Clair  00:10

Hi, I’m Jessica St. Clair.


June Diane Raphael  00:12

And I’m June Diane Raphael.  And this is The Deep Dive.


Jessica St. Clair  00:12

We’re about to do what women have done for centuries we’re crowding around the fire with our generous hunches. We got babies hanging off our tips and we’re going to share with you our fears sets, our joys, our tips on how to stay alive.


June Diane Raphael  00:32

Now Jess we’re heating a call that no one has made.


Jessica St. Clair  00:37

Not a soul.


June Diane Raphael  00:37

But you’re invited to listen.


Jessica St. Clair  00:39

Absolutely, because we make one promise and one promise only we will not Google a thing because frankly, we’re too damn tired. Please get ready to go on The Deep Dive.


June Diane Raphael  00:57

Well, Hello, Jessica. I’m terrified.


Jessica St. Clair  01:03

Oh my gosh, deep divers something major is happening.


June Diane Raphael  01:08

First of all, I’m very nervous to record this. Let’s be honest. Let’s be truthful. I feel nervous.


Jessica St. Clair  01:15

Who Moved My Cheese? moved my cheese. Do you remember that book? Who Moved My Cheese?


June Diane Raphael  01:22

No, I don’t know what you’re saying.


Jessica St. Clair  01:25

It was about change and embracing it. And this mouse in the book is just obsessed with someone moved his cheese and you just can’t get over it.


June Diane Raphael  01:36

Okay, our cheese, our cheese has been moved to Lemonada we have a new home. And so our entire set. I’m sure we have some new listeners.


Jessica St. Clair  01:47

I know. And we’re so excited.


June Diane Raphael  01:50

I hope you stay along. Yeah, I’m so excited. I’m like, go back to the to the previous episode. If you want a taste of like, a classic episode, we’re finding our footing because our cheese has been moved. And we’re so excited to have found a new home for our cheese.


Jessica St. Clair  02:07

Listen, I struggle with change. I was always the person at the end of summer. That was sobbing. I mean, like we will go to New Hampshire only for like couple weeks and then I would start sobbing like day five knowing that it was ending. I have a hard time. Letting go.


June Diane Raphael  02:29

Yeah. And so Jessica and I are acclimating. And we are calibrating. And but we have been texting all morning about how nervous. […] stuff episode for limonada. I never looked like this is for everybody who’s on the call, our new producer. I’ve never looked like this for a podcast recording. So it’s all very, it’s all very nerve wracking. I’m so glad you’re with me.


Jessica St. Clair  03:01

I know. I knew that. I knew that. I was going to say I was terrified because I can’t be anything other than what I am. And for those new listeners, that is what this show is June and I are best friends we’ve been best friends for I don’t know how many years at this point. But we started this experiment before the pandemic. We thought we’d be talking about creams, we put on our face, what we end up doing is actually talking about what the the deepest, darkest secrets of our lives and vulnerabilities and we share them and then the deep dive community which we call Deep Divers share them back with us. We feel less alone. We lean into the joy of life. Everybody wins.


June Diane Raphael  03:49

Yeah, that’s a taste. You know, I’ve been trying to nail down a logline for this podcast for years, you know, points. It’s been just a pure Christmas podcast, at points. It’s been a it’s been a recap podcast of the show alone on the History Channel. It had, we’ve explored a lot of different things.


Jessica St. Clair  04:11

Yeah. And we’re different and we’re different because of it. That’s the thing.


June Diane Raphael  04:15

It’s 1,000% it’s been a beautiful experience. And we’re so excited to welcome all the new listeners and to take you on this journey with us. It’s really been a very special very fun time. Okay, so I was thinking this morning I was like, Okay, how do how do we talk about our relationship? And I thought back to when of course, I first saw Jessica performing at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre in New York. And I thought she’s the most brilliant improviser woman I’ve ever seen in my life.


Jessica St. Clair  04:52

Do you also think why is she wearing a capri pant that hits her at mid calf which is the widest part of length.


June Diane Raphael  05:00

Were sort of like, yeah, waiting for flood.


Jessica St. Clair  05:03

Which, by the way in the theater we were in, which was underneath the […] like, it could have happened, but it did. And it did.


June Diane Raphael  05:12

I thought you were beautiful.


Jessica St. Clair  05:14

Appreciate that.


June Diane Raphael  05:15

And hilarious. And I said to Casey Wilson at the time, we were doing our show together a sketch comedy show together. I said, we have to get to her. And then Casey and I set out to befriend you. And it wasn’t it was sort of an old timey courtship.


Jessica St. Clair  05:36

You know, they don’t make them like that.


June Diane Raphael  05:37

They don’t.


Jessica St. Clair  05:38

Like you kind of took me to dinner.


June Diane Raphael  05:41

We took you out. And wined and dined you and then and then and you seemed so you were getting engaged.


Jessica St. Clair  05:55

This is what was, and Casey I just talked about this yesterday, we were talking about when we first met and I said, you know, the first thing you said to me was, what do you do with your pubes? Okay, I do know that because I was so horrified wasn’t the first thing but it was before appetizers out. It was it was it was it was pre potsticker went tell you that much.


June Diane Raphael  06:21

And Casey at that point was I, I remember this. So specifically, it was during an era like Taylor Swift eras, where everybody was the bald eagle and the vaginal department. Everybody, shave it, all off. And I certainly was and Casey and I lived together. And I know she was sort of fraught with this. This reality that like, there bald it all everywhere.


Jessica St. Clair  06:57

And she was working with like the New Yorker slice.


June Diane Raphael  07:00

I honestly don’t know what she exactly was up to. But I know that the this trend was like, was unsettling her. And I get it actually lay. I looking back I understand. I was just like, Well, gotta do it, you know. But I, but looking back, I’m like, Yeah, I think that it was, you know, unsettling to see everybody look like pre pubescent and so. But God, I didn’t expect her to bring that up on our first date with you.


Jessica St. Clair  07:38

But it felt, because I think it was almost it was almost like saying to someone, you know, what do you do for a living? Or what’s your college? Like wanted to identify you? And the fact that I think we talked about this in one of the first couple episodes, so So maybe this is a recap of of the pilot of this show. Sure. But when she said that, to me, I didn’t feel odd at all. That’s the thing. It’s like, I think the best thing you can do on a best friend date, if you have if you’ve identified somebody as a potential best friend, and I say this to Bibi all the time, be yourself. Because if that person does not welcome you with open arms, then that’s not going to be your best friend. If you’re just looking to network. For business, don’t don’t be yourself, be anyone other than who you really are. But if you’re looking for a best friend, a soul mate, come as you are. And I welcomed it, I responded, which was that I was getting wax like a bald eagle in the basement of the time life building for $12 a session I would go to the McDonald’s, I would have a Happy Meal treat myself to a happy meal. This was when I was working at CNN, then I pop over and get a $12 wax. Now I’m still working off some of the scars there. You know.


June Diane Raphael  09:04

I can only imagine.


Jessica St. Clair  09:05

Some of that scar tissue is never really […] I’m missing what I wouldn’t say is I’m missing pigment, that I’ve never but that was the budget I was working with. At the time and.


June Diane Raphael  09:22

I can vaguely remember that at that dinner or drinks whatever it was that you didn’t drink very much. You mentioned you’re going to the gym you told us about like the gym you went to. And I didn’t even have a gym membership. I couldn’t even imagine a future in which I had a gym membership. So you represented to me someone you were getting engaged who had their life together.


Jessica St. Clair  09:50

It was so wild.


June Diane Raphael  09:52

I know, Yeah, but that’s when you want to meet and then Jessica move to LA I followed a few years later with Casey, the next time we really, because believe it or not that dinner didn’t, you know, our friendship didn’t take flight after that dinner, no surprise, but then we came to LA. And then the next time I really connected with you was in the waiting room for a pilot we were both auditioning for.


Jessica St. Clair  10:23

And that was before we start, I started coming to housewives. Yes. Wow, I can’t believe we didn’t know each other really well, then because we met in the bathroom of that of that audition, and I had a soiled white tank top on. And you were wearing.


June Diane Raphael  10:42

I was wearing moccasins. And couldn’t have been shooting ourselves in the foot more. But I felt again.


Jessica St. Clair  10:54

I didn’t expect that from you either. Because you were putting yourself together like a woman in a way that I had never seen in the comedy space. And so I did not expect you to be to be a veck moccasin. And but that’s when I knew like and then afterwards we walked out. And did you say to me June? Listen if I if I don’t get it? I hope you do.


June Diane Raphael  11:20

It was so funny. Do you remember sitting outside that. And […] this was, so well, because me you and some another woman. And we were both up for playing a mom on a TV show. And we were really wrestling with whether we were ready to play that role. And I was like, I’m still Carrie Bradshaw, or you’re like, What the fuck? You know, and, and you felt the same. And so we were a bit ambivalent, but also wanted it. And I think what was so cool about that experience is it really connected me in you, because we were very honest about being fraught with motherhood and being fraught about our careers. And you got the role? I did not. And because this was the final like, for those of you who like we had to sign contracts to test for this role of stuck at the final final, final final audition. And then of course, it went on to series.


Jessica St. Clair  12:33

I wouldn’t really call it […]


June Diane Raphael  12:40

But it was picked up for season.  Jessica got the role. And then I was hired as a guest star. And I sat in your trailer, remember? And you told me we were still just out there fucking hustling in our careers. And you were like, I was like, our pilot season and I gotta do this. I’m gonna do that. And you’re so lucky already on a show and the hustle, the hustle, the hustle. And you said to me, you’re like, This isn’t? You? Don’t I know. You have no memory of this.


Jessica St. Clair  13:15

You said, this isn’t real. [..] This isn’t real life. Let’s have our babies. And I was like, what? And you’re like, we gotta have kids. We want kids. What are we gonna have them? And I was like, I don’t I don’t deserve them yet. I can’t. I gotta do ABCD I can’t have them yet. I don’t get to have that yet. I didn’t do enough.


June Diane Raphael  13:46

Wow, this is the kind of talk that people don’t welcome at the at the craft service table. I because I get into such a like, existential place when I’m working. You know, I was like, probably like, This can’t be it right. You know? We’ll Jess but you were so adamant about it. And then you did get pregnant. Pretty soon after, I think, well, I don’t want my house. I don’t remember that. That but but anyway, for our new listeners, that’s been like the that was sort of the real genesis of our friendship. We’ve just become closer over the years. But it’s very, your people always have that misconception. I think about actresses that were like in Uber competition with each other all the time.


Jessica St. Clair  14:31

And you and I have been in competition for the same parts over and over and over again. And instead of turning away from each other, we always turn toward each other.


June Diane Raphael  14:44

That’s absolutely true. And we’re so lucky. And the moment that I that I feel like defined and cemented our bond was the darkest night of my life. Truly darkest night of my life, when we were in the hospital, and Dan was on a in a very precarious situation. And the nursing staff, God loved them. We’re completely over booked and or we’re messing some things up. And I was like, I don’t know what to do. And you called me or texted me at 11pm? I don’t know who told you I don’t know the game of telephone that had gotten to you. Or if I told you, I think that day I was texting you all some of the most horrific updates every five minutes. And I thought this was the day that was going to change my life forever, and not in a good way. And so you texted me at 11pm? And you said, I’m going to I’m going to get in my car. And I’m going to drive to UCLA. And I’m going to tell everybody, I am Dan’s sister, and I’m going to station myself outside of the door. And I’m going to raise hell if things aren’t done correctly.


Jessica St. Clair  16:10

I was willing to you wouldn’t let me you wouldn’t let me come.


Jessica St. Clair  16:15

I said, that’s insane. So anyway, but that is when I realized like, oh, this woman shows up. This woman shows up like I you know, I thought God, I didn’t even know you felt that close to me. And that felt so amazing to have that type of support. So that’s when I knew.


June Diane Raphael  17:22

Well, I love you so much Jessica. I said every episode I love this woman so much and yeah, my nerves are dissipating a bit. You know, of course right before we started recording, I had a giant green juice that was freezing cold. So I came up here just shiver. So I’m starting to really relax it and there are a couple things I do want to talk to you about today. I wrote a list.


Jessica St. Clair  18:31

Great. I know this was your I was like possible topics. I’m like, let’s not get this new audience like let’s level set for them that most of the time, if not all the time. We have no idea what we’re going to talk about.


June Diane Raphael  18:42

I know but there’s a couple things on my mind.


Jessica St. Clair  18:44

Okay, great.


June Diane Raphael  18:45

That I just want to address with you because something major has happened to me I’m different. Okay. And the reason why is because I have just and I mean in the last two weeks, started to wear belts.


Jessica St. Clair  19:11

Okay, I’ve always felt very intimidated by a woman in a belt.


June Diane Raphael  19:16

Belts were for somebody else.


June Diane Raphael  19:18

Someone to had their shit together in a way that I could never somebody who rode a horse, somebody who had generational wealth.


June Diane Raphael  19:30

Women in belts to me were like ivy league shit. Were too fucking powerful and sexy for me to even I’m so attracted to women in a belts by the way.


Jessica St. Clair  19:44

A woman in a belt with a boot cut and like a boot, and like a crisp white button down shirt with a collar. Yes, breezy to me. Yep.


June Diane Raphael  20:00

So I’ve never even owned a belt. I wouldn’t dare. I wouldn’t dare. So this is why we both own belts right now. And actually it’s perfect because today that we’re recording is the day it just came out but Alison Bornstein, who is a stylist for the Every Woman has a book called Wear It Well, and I want to just tease something that I, because I am the Chief Content Officer of the Deep Dive Academy of significance which is of course the the institution we started. We are going to be having a styling, curating your closet seminar that’s going to go over the course of a month with Allison Bornstein.


Jessica St. Clair  20:50

That’s wonderful.


June Diane Raphael  20:51

So we’re all gonna get into belts.


June Diane Raphael  20:53

Allison, I had a session with her and she said, we need to get you some belts. And I said, oh, I don’t wear belts. Like I don’t identify with a belt here.


Jessica St. Clair  21:03

Belt for me is, what are you doing with your pubes, like what are you doing with those loop holes. I’m not putting a belt, and she said a belt can go, she said if there’s a loop put a belt on it. Not always, more often than not put a belt on it. And I say I, short circuited. Now I’m going to tell you because when I recently showed up at your house frantically after a beach day and said I had to I have to go to a cocktail party in about half an hour and I need to shower you place. I need your clothes and your shoes and a bag. You handed me some clothes and you handed me a belt with it,


June Diane Raphael  21:55

Which was from a shoot.


Jessica St. Clair  21:57

I didn’t. That’s not my belt. I’ve never worn it.


June Diane Raphael  22:00

So okay, so I thought maybe you’re a belt person.


Jessica St. Clair  22:03

God, no, I just bought my first belt last week. Okay, I just person yesterday, you know who is oh my god, this is crazy. I’m a different person. I felt in each role. I had a Christian t shirt that she had me by and a belt. And I felt like I could take on the world. Like, I felt like I’m the kind of woman that has a closet full of crisp white teas, and I know how to bleach them. So don’t get in my fucking face.


June Diane Raphael  22:35



Jessica St. Clair  22:38

So. I’m gonna say this much. There’s one woman who I’ve always identified as a belt woman.


June Diane Raphael  22:48

Who’s that?


Jessica St. Clair  22:49

Andrew savage.


June Diane Raphael  22:51

Oh, yeah, come on.


June Diane Raphael  22:53

She always has a smart belt on.


June Diane Raphael  22:55

Yeah. And she always has the right candle lit. And she’s always near a firepit. But she, oh has always had a belt on and I’ve always thought, wow.


Jessica St. Clair  23:06

That’s powerful.


June Diane Raphael  23:08

Yeah, it’s aspirational. And is it something like our belts masculine in my mind? I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going on with me in this belt. But I have it on right now. I was very worried about how it would feel.


Jessica St. Clair  23:23

Well, that’s it. Part of me is like at this point. And again, this was an assignment for the Academy, which was to get rid of any jeans, any pants that don’t fit anymore and donate them because we can’t be stuffing ourselves into things that make us feel uncomfortable but I’m always undoing the stop button like I’m fucking at a at a roadside bar after like a basket of wings, but I need to be able to exit you know, the shackles of denim and so then I thought well, what is this belt going to do to me? But so far so good.


June Diane Raphael  24:03

So far so good. I think maybe I subconsciously had the same concerns that the belts would be too much on I have also like I really struggle with bloating throughout the month and I was like that belts going to just remind me of how bloated I am. I did the opposite assertive happened which is it’s cinching me in. Yeah, good. Turns out the belt has been around for I don’t know how many hundreds of years. Jessica.


Jessica St. Clair  24:38

Never got my mom not in a belt.


June Diane Raphael  24:40

Oh hey, your mom is about your mom is belt to me. Okay.


Jessica St. Clair  24:49

She she is laid back that is a smart collar and a button down the fact collar.


June Diane Raphael  24:57

Okay, we need to talk about this as to which is I am going because of you to surprise my godmother who is in an assisted living home. And I haven’t seen in very many years because it’s in New Jersey, and I’m all the way out here in California. And my mother will be there as well. We’re surprising our other aunt who is being honored as like the best nurse and all of New Jersey. So we’re going there. But my point is, I’m going to shock my mother by showing up dressed correctly. Wow. Because I know that when she looks at my, my unadorned belt loops, it fills her with a deep and unending sadness. I know that if I were to truly say, Mom, what hurts you the most on my body right now? She would say that, in fact, you’re not worrying.


Jessica St. Clair  25:59

So is she? Because now I’m starting to feel like her like if I see those belt loops, empty, sad. Barren, you know, I’m, I’m feeling for them. I always thought belts were. I don’t know. It’s just so crazy. I thought they’re functional to like, keep up your pants. I didn’t know. No, and everyone needs to check out Allison’s book where it well, because it is such a guide to like, how to get these pieces, you know, the white t shirt, which she directed me to cos, COS to $25 t shirt. That’s how that’s pronounced. Is it cos? whatever it is $25 t shirt, just like, Okay, great. And we have a whole episode with or that we interview. But that was pre belt revolution. And so now this is the belt revolution will be televised. If you want to get at Allison be able to ask her questions. She will be with us in the academy joining us as a dean.


June Diane Raphael  26:59

She’s changed a few things for me. So that’s big, and I don’t think I’ll ever be beltless again.


Jessica St. Clair  27:07

Yeah, I’m gonna say this too June. This was a crazy thing that happened to me the other day, and I really do think The Deep Dive has a huge part in it. I have my birthday, right?


June Diane Raphael  27:19

Tell me about it.


Jessica St. Clair  27:19

It was glorious. I’m gonna tell you why. First of all, my birthday used to be very fraught and I share the birthday with your dad. So I also I tip my hat to him. I’m sure he sent me some of these good vibes. But I decided I’m just like, I’m gonna enjoy the fuck out of my birthday. This is great. So the night before my birthday, and I wanted to give this tip for everyone who has children who want to celebrate your birthday with them on that night of your birthday. Go out with your partner, best friend whoever the night before. One of my old babysitters, Ashley remembered it was my birthday and said hey, you want me to come over and babysit so you Nan could go out? I would have never thought about it. Because you know, she’s living her best childless life. She’s out there making memories, you know, on anniversaries, etc, having probably best sex of her life. So she said let me let me take Bibi to pizza, whatever. So we did that. And because there was no pressure because it wasn’t my actual birthday. I had a glass of bubbly a chocolate torte all to myself. So many carbs. And in bed by 8:30. Wonderful.


June Diane Raphael  28:39

Oh, loving early dinner.


Jessica St. Clair  28:41

And then my other friend Molly, who is my custom designer who also I partnered with she said Hey, you want to go to the spa with me? The Burke Williams spa. Now here’s a hot tip. Here’s a hot tip for $110 a month. Okay, you can be a member at the Burke Billings and go every every month for a massage. But not that, every month they it’s like belonging. But instead of working out you’re going to lay down talk about significant women. month all the facilities to friend so I showed up at 11am and I saw the quiet room and I’m like what’s in there? All of these significant women taking a nap it was nap pods.


June Diane Raphael  29:36

Oh I’d seen that.


Jessica St. Clair  29:37

It was nap. They were these easy chairs with what I think were for blankets and there was lavender diffusing. You get yourself in there so fell deeply asleep. I don’t know how I woke up in time for this massage which I said to her just right above my head, head in my neck. That’s all I want. And she did it for like 40 minutes. Then I took like eight hour and a half shower. Just to shower. Then I had some lunch with Uncle Josh.


June Diane Raphael  30:22

Perfect Day. Let me ask you something. This sounds like a perfect day couldn’t be happier. I want to ask you when you’re getting a massage, because I actually was just away with my girlfriends for the weekend. I wanted to talk and I did get a massage was why but what when you’re getting a massage? Do you, like to talk to the masseuse?


Jessica St. Clair  30:44

Insane. No. And also this woman did start sharing her tips and tricks which I did not need to hear, of like vitamins and supplements for a woman quote of my age.


June Diane Raphael  31:00

No, thank you. And I’m sure she’s getting some MLM kickback or you’re on the downline or whatever the fuck no, thank you, honey. Okay, I don’t need this.


Jessica St. Clair  31:10

And maybe the age of my ass is different than the age of my face. You’re only seeing me from an aerial view.


June Diane Raphael  31:17

Okay, another question. Jessica. Do you go fully nude? Or do you wearing something underneath there? Because I find, to that to be fascinating. totally nude, right?


Jessica St. Clair  31:28

Nude of course.


June Diane Raphael  31:28

I want them to have access.


Jessica St. Clair  31:30

Yeah, get in there, get in there and do what you need to do. Because that’s your workspace.


June Diane Raphael  31:34

I’m not gonna create barriers. I’ll give you the whole canvas.


Jessica St. Clair  31:38

I’m not gonna think you’re gonna try to secretly slip a ditch.


June Diane Raphael  31:42

Nobody’s after that.


June Diane Raphael  31:44

Although I will tell you I lived with someone out of college, who I’ll never forget. She came back one day and said she’d had a massage. And she started having sex with a guy.


Jessica St. Clair  31:58

That’s the hottest thing I’ve ever heard. How that.


June Diane Raphael  32:02

Where a moment where amazing?


Jessica St. Clair  32:05

Oh, June like these things happen.


June Diane Raphael  32:12

I’ve never been you know, now I’m upset. I wasted all of my 20s.


Jessica St. Clair  32:17

Well, wonderful.


June Diane Raphael  32:19

You know, listen, for a long time. I was like, I always prefer a female. I think I still I think I still do. However, I will say that there are some times where I’ve had certain men who I feel are a little bit more comfortable with a heavier pressure. Which I like? Oh, but I also never want them to think this is like this whole psychological thing that goes into it that I’ve requested.


Jessica St. Clair  32:55

I rave.


June Diane Raphael  32:57

Because I’m like, What is that like? And what message am I sending you sir? That I like male men? I would like a man.


Jessica St. Clair  33:05

And if it’s a man, I would definitely have on something I wouldn’t know. Of course you have it. I had a friend who was staying at some hotel in New York, that was like a membership Hotel. Like her dad was a part of it or something. And so she went stayed, and she had a crazy sciatica thing kick up. So she called down she said, I’d like a massage, you know, and they said, man or woman, and she said, it really doesn’t matter. You know, man, I guess because it’s going I need like actual pressure. And the person they sent up was to have sex with her.


June Diane Raphael  33:45

What do you.


Jessica St. Clair  33:46

That was code. That’s what you knew to do.


June Diane Raphael  33:50

To say you wanted pressure?


Jessica St. Clair  33:52

You’re just to say a man meant that we’ll be the service provided. And so, and actually, the person they sent up with didn’t she was like, oh, no, no, no, no, I don’t want to do that. And he was like, Well, I’m not very good at massaging. So I should just go I don’t want you to spend.


June Diane Raphael  34:15

Oh, my God.


Jessica St. Clair  34:17

I’m not certified for that sort of thing.


June Diane Raphael  34:20

I only have my certificate in fucking.


Jessica St. Clair  34:23

Hey, you know what? She was single. She was single at the time and I thought, kind of wish he’d seen what was on the menu.


June Diane Raphael  34:33

Listen, I want to say at any of our Deep Divers who are young and you know free.


Jessica St. Clair  34:38

Just, like just see what’s on the the menu.


June Diane Raphael  34:42

Open. Yes, just be open. You know, Jessica is a cautionary tale. She didn’t have a margarita till about three months ago.


Jessica St. Clair  34:49

And I regret every lost minute.


June Diane Raphael  34:53

Yeah, and she was always going home from a party first and like really don’t regulating herself throughout her life. sheaf and you know, it’s only now that she’s really going wild out there and it’s it’s a different look.


Jessica St. Clair  35:09

I know and nobody wants a different now try to so people are offering me supplements I don’t want a supplement payment plan, a monthly supplement service I they’re not offering to finger blast. Oh no, that’s the truth is enjoy, enjoy, enjoy live and enjoy.


June Diane Raphael  35:33

Live Live Live Live Live.


Jessica St. Clair  35:55

I wanted to tell you the moment I had was, I thought, Huh, I’m happy. It really took me and it’s happened about two times since, I feel happy. almost perfectly happy.


June Diane Raphael  36:25

I don’t know if I’ve felt this way truly since I was like studying abroad in Spain. I think something’s happening to me, I think. And I met with Elise Lunan, whose book we’re doing a really long with at the Academy. And she said something is happening in our collective consciousness, which is people are shedding old ways. They are cracking open. And she looked at me and said, evolve or die.


Jessica St. Clair  37:06

I, I wonder. And I would love to hear if we looked around because I know every single person in my orbit is having radical changes and shifts in their life. I wonder if it’s the time we have from the pandemic till now where we can actually take stock and say this not this. Enough of this more joy. I don’t know what it is.


June Diane Raphael  37:33

It’s so interesting, because we’ll have justice husband, Dan O’Brien, just brilliant poet and author and playwright. Just we recently went to a reading of his work. And he talks about like dealing with trauma after later, later, later later. And I think you’re absolutely right, Jess, that there is a post pandemic.


June Diane Raphael  38:03

Being out of it, even though apparently everybody I know has COVID.


June Diane Raphael  38:06

Yeah, I’m sure I do to.


Jessica St. Clair  38:07

Probably do right now. Yeah, couldn’t not have it.


June Diane Raphael  38:10

But. But there is a post pandemic probably years out now or two years out safety, where we can process where we can learn, and we can feel because we’re a little bit safer to do that.


Jessica St. Clair  38:33

That’s right. And not fighting for our brains isn’t taken up surviving. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a two and a half hour conversation with my dead best friend via psychic medium. And again, if you’re hearing this as a new listener, and you’re thinking this podcast isn’t for you, because these people talk to dead people. We do. Yeah, we do.


June Diane Raphael  38:56

So they’re in there are the other several dead people who are recurring characters. Yeah. Co hosts.


Jessica St. Clair  39:02

Co hosts, June’s parents who.


June Diane Raphael  39:05

My parents have pretty much exclusively speak to Jessica.


Jessica St. Clair  39:09

That’s right.


June Diane Raphael  39:10

So I don’t really get a direct line from them and the way that Jessica does.,


Jessica St. Clair  39:15

Like I, you had a dream, and I was about your Deru dad was in there. I was like, Well, this is what he meant. It took me a minute, but then I figured it out. And he had a message for me too. Which is why I’m going to see my aunt my godmother. Your father told me through you to get on that plane? And I’m doing it on Thursday and go be with my family. I’m thrilled about that.


June Diane Raphael  39:39

Yeah, it was that easy to just do it. And have no regrets. Wonderful.


Jessica St. Clair  39:44

No regrets. We don’t want regrets. But at any rate, yes. We talked to dead people. And when I was talking to my dead best friend, this was, you know, a two and a half hour conversation. She said enough, enough with the self help podcast, Jessica and off with perfecting yourself, we’re done with that. Stop apologizing for being a human being. And she kept saying over and over again, I want you to love yourself as much as you love me. And I think that’s what happened on my birthday is I was like, yeah, what would Kelly want me to do have the time on my fucking life? And I did. But love yourself as much as you love me. It’s like, what if we all treated ourselves the way we would treat our best friend? You know, it’s so cliched. And I know, people would say, oh, that’s the most cliche for me. That was exactly what I needed to hear. Because I do the opposite. I’m so hard on myself. I so feel like there’s always something to work on, and change and fix. But it’s like, what if you’re perfect, just the way you are? What if? How much joy you would have? How much less defensiveness someone said, You fuck this up? You go. Yup.


June Diane Raphael  41:07

I did.


Jessica St. Clair  41:09

Okay. So what?


June Diane Raphael  41:12

it’s very true. It’s very true. I know.


Jessica St. Clair  41:19

That’s what they want. On the other side. They want us to love ourselves just the way they are. Because when they were living, they had a hard time with it. Because that’s the being a human being. But that if the I think that’s the evolution, and that’s the evolution, right, that’s the transcendence. Gosh, it’s so hard, you know, and, and, as some of our Deep Divers know, I struggle so much with my menstrual cycle. And every day is a different experience of myself based on where I am in my cycle. But I love this message. And I am really loving this time. I’m really loving this time. And I’m really just loving. You know, I grew up as a latchkey kid, I didn’t, I had two working parents, I never quite felt that my parents had their shit together. And I felt like when I opened my backpack at school, I didn’t know if there was going to be a lunch in there. I didn’t know if my parents were going to have gotten me the right supplies. I always felt like I had to do that stuff. Because I didn’t trust that they could. And it’s a very shameful feeling as a child, I felt very embarrassed about it, about not having the right things not having parents who knew even what was going on to get the right things. And also, though, weirdly, intuiting as a child, that I didn’t want to put that pressure on them. So it was like, I knew that they didn’t have it together. I knew that but I also loved them so much that I wanted to, like, alleviate the pressure of having to take care of my every need. Which you know, something I’ve like been battling with for the rest of my life, but I am so boy, is it fucking healing for me to provide that for my children? It’s really quite healing to be like, I know that you have soccer today after school. And so I will put these things in your bag. And I will put your extra snacks and so you can have it. And you know, sometimes we talk about the mental load and all of like the extra things that women do and that’s so true. But sometimes what doesn’t get talked about is like the how sacred caretaking is how actually like so beautiful it is to and healing for me to take care of my children. I I just love it. You know, and it’s not that I’m like wanting to identify as fuckin supermom, or, you know, the sort of Instagram version of like, I can organize and I’m super at this. It’s more of that. It’s so much deeper than that so intimate, to take care of children and to provide security for them but it’s not just the stuff. It’s the sense of I got you so you go be free. And you I will be your landing you know I have a safe landing for you so you can do your thing. And I am just loving having the time and I know that there will never go back to work and all that stuff. Like there will be times where that’s not always possible right. Now I got sad. I mean, I of course, we longed for the strike to be over, but there was a collective anxiety I could feel Yes. When we were hearing it was about to be done. It was like a like, because are we going to be able to maintain that slow down feeling, but that is also in our control.


June Diane Raphael  45:33

I do think so. And I think that, you know, the panic of the strike going on was a panic. And it was like, and to be able to ride through it. I’m very relieved that we could and there are people in our industry who will benefit not benefit at all from the deal we get and its implications for the crew.


Jessica St. Clair  45:55

The crew who, people losing their homes. Yes, people, young people who started in this business and had to move home like this. No joke.


June Diane Raphael  46:04

No, it’s so fucking real. And I’m also finding, I learned things about myself in terms of like, I love this time. And I just Mike.


Jessica St. Clair  46:17

I know, it doesn’t last either. Like he’s turning 10 next weekend. And when I was putting her to bed. I thought, oh God, she’s already halfway more than halfway to not being here. And I just was like, she’s asleep. You know, she fell asleep. And I’m just sitting there crying, you know? Do you know because I just, that’s also like, I think though, I think June that I have put off the happiness the feeling like I’m happy. Because I I’m afraid of what it would feel like if it was ripped away from me. So if you’re only half happy, then you’re protecting yourself if for some reason it got taken away or when it eventually they do leave or something you you know, you keep yourself safe. And it’s like, no, nah. When did I write nod on you in a text that got your self set.


June Diane Raphael  47:27

chills me, it’s still the same.


Jessica St. Clair  47:29

Thing you asked of me? And I just said nah, and I hit sent. And it chills you to the bone. But you’re right, like those old ways do not serve and we must evolve or die. I mean, though, that evolve or die is is. You know, I guess what I’m taking with me through the next through the rest of the year. The least. You know what, I don’t know. Maybe this is an astrology podcast. But I just spoke to a friend who’s very into strategy yesterday. She really took me through she had forecast at the end of the strike to the day, to the day. Okay, wonderful from tracking the astrological passages.


June Diane Raphael  48:18

If this is Kulap, I don’t buy it because it’s good.


Jessica St. Clair  48:22

It’s not Kulap. But so I thought that was great news. And I did ask about you know, Zag and excetera. And she said that by Halloween. It’s in the it’s all in the rearview mirror. So I’m just gonna say that. I’m gonna say that now just in time free time. Yep. As much as I have shared on today’s podcast, how you know that there are things about caretaking that I think in the cultural way we understand caretaking and mothering it gets like into these buckets. And there’s narratives around it that never felt quite right, because they don’t really get to the heart of the matter. But I also struggle with some caretaking and some of that is caretaking of myself. I have a fucking suitcase at the bottom of the stairs. When will it come up? What are you asked?


June Diane Raphael  49:13

Well, what if you ask Paul to bring it up?


Jessica St. Clair  49:16

Wow, well, I did ask him to bring it out of the trunk of his car, which was where it was. And he did do that. What’s let me just take you through what’s happening now. Well, first I arrived home about two days later, it came from the car to the bottom of the stairs, right?


June Diane Raphael  49:36

This is where things go dangerous actually.


Jessica St. Clair  49:40

Like really do you start pulling things out of it without carrying it out? First what was happening is.


June Diane Raphael  49:47

I was like my meds are in there. Can’t be without those.


Jessica St. Clair  49:52



June Diane Raphael  49:53

Like, and right on my period. Like I need that Prozac. And, but it was in the suitcase and I was like, There’s no way I was upstairs and I was like, There’s no way to get it. There’s not a way that I see to get it. Not that I see. So I went two days without my meds and my vital sweet Oh, cuz I was like I could get it. And then all my makeup was in there. Now I had like your JV team of makeup, okay, but it was like not my regular stuff. So then I’m like on zooms and doing life and I’m like, using, like, foundation from years ago. Yeah. Because I.


Jessica St. Clair  50:45

Can’t crack it open. I can get to in a suitcase at the bottom of the stairs, then we’re fucked. What are we bringing.


June Diane Raphael  50:51

That’s where we are now?


Jessica St. Clair  50:52

Because what happened to things up?


June Diane Raphael  50:54

What happened today is I thought, You know what? I’m gonna go on a run today. By the way, Jessica, you might not even know this. I’m running a half marathon in January.


Jessica St. Clair  51:03

You told me I couldn’t be more excited.


June Diane Raphael  51:06

Okay, thank you.  I did tell you so I gotta do my long runs. I’m excited. I gotta go. I gotta do like a four mile today. Okay. Well, I can’t do without my sneakers. And those are in the suitcase. I went down the back of it. This is where, and this is where things really fell apart. I went down to the bottom of the stairs, and I did some things. And this is where I struggle hard to complete a task. I did some things like I thought, Oh, these are two packing cubes of dirty clothes, I can put them in the laundry chute, which I did. Right, got my sneakers and pulled up the belts. But the rest of it is down there. Sitting in front of our circus. I’m gonna text Paul and ask him to bring it up. If you can’t, somebody should.


Jessica St. Clair  51:58

So you know, these are the things that I struggle with. And.


June Diane Raphael  52:05

Dead people don’t care. And they certainly don’t want you to shame yourself about an open thing. You know, the other thing. That’s the problem. You’re not. I wish the problem I think maybe I could do with a little more shame. You’re not gonna get it from me. I know. I’m not but you know, it’s like, I’m living out of a suitcase. I did bring my meds up. And I did bring my makeup brushes up and my makeup. So I’m living out of a suitcase in my own home, which feels wild. One other quick thing and we’re gonna wrap it up. One other quick thing I wanted to tell you, Ana Cecilia, are one of our producers on The Deep Dive podcast. And of course, executive assistant to the stars. Was over yesterday and the doorbell rang. And she went over and started to open the door before I could say no, because what I saw on the ring camera was a deranged man.


Jessica St. Clair  53:03

Oh, no, God. Like, this is like one of your dateline. I survived this.


June Diane Raphael  53:12

Okay, so I’m watching this interaction. And I vibed this mother fucker. From rooms away. You’ve watched giant to know for me? It was a giant No. And I can’t remember quite what he said. But he, he was like, I’ve got an appointment on the exterminator. Okay, and I’m like, watching this every camera. And I turned to Anna, she can see me through my office and I say close the door. Close.


Jessica St. Clair  53:48

Oh my God, June


June Diane Raphael  53:50

I hear him asking her like, Are you the owner of the home is the homeowner there. And his energy was just bananas. And I said close the door. And she said, she says hold on one second, I’ll be right back or whatever. She said. You know, people aren’t as comfortable being rude as I am.


Jessica St. Clair  54:10

Yeah. And as I am now too.


June Diane Raphael  54:12

I know.


Jessica St. Clair  54:13



June Diane Raphael  54:14

Slam mother fucker. Don’t come to my house with that energy. Door closes and Anna comes back. And she’s like, he’s the exterminator and I said I don’t have it in the cow. He’s not in the family cow, creature feature. Okay, and I was looking on the cameras, I don’t see his truck. I don’t see. I don’t see anything that identifies him as a part of an institution. And then I’m watching him on the ring cam and he is behaving like a lunatic. Puffing like looking into the ring cam, we’re now and I was like, Oh no. So then I text Paul, and I’m like, the next man is here. He’s the exterminator. And then Paul’s like let him in.  Okay, and then Anna texts Paul and she said, she’s like, yeah, yeah, they come every six months. I’m like, I have not heard of this person. So, yes, he was. But what I was trying to express to Paul is like, I accept that he’s an exterminator. Okay? But his behavior is unacceptable to me. And he said something to Anna when she went back. He was like, Whoa, you’re scared of me? You can feel safe with me. And I was just like.


Jessica St. Clair  55:52

Oh, God. Oh, no. Yeah, somebody isn’t No, just because somebody says they’re an exterminator doesn’t mean they have to come in.


June Diane Raphael  56:00

And he proceeded to walk. He was only outside as an exterminator. So he didn’t ever come in somebody. It proceeded to walk around the house on with a Bluetooth in talking to someone on the phone at a volume that would blow your mind. And I was both irritated and glad that I knew where he was at all times. And then like I said to Paul, I’m like, do you not care about my, like vibes with Pete I’m telling you something was so not right.


Jessica St. Clair  56:32

You know, Daniel, Daniel suss that out immediately. Okay.


June Diane Raphael  56:36

And Paul was like, the man works with bugs for a living like.


Jessica St. Clair  56:40

No, let’s not I’ve met some wonderful wonderful exterminators.


June Diane Raphael  56:45

Yeah, that’s what I that’s what I said. I said, if anything you exterminators that I’ve actually encountered are working against the stereotype type of what it is to be a person who works with bugs.


Jessica St. Clair  56:59

Yes, I had to battle a roach infestation at my, at my apartment, and I don’t know if I told the story. But Dan, the moment the first one appeared, He packed his stuff up, tipped his hat and disappeared and left I am totally under he said that set all the things on fire. I will not be a part of this. And I instead was ordering things in brown paper packages, unmarked packages, you know, trying to battle them on my own, and I finally called an a professional, who was telling me some wild tales, that when he goes down to the basement of these apartment buildings, he has to wear what looks like a knight’s hood. Because the rats will jump at your face. They’re blind. And when they feel threatened, they’ll jump into your.


June Diane Raphael  57:49

Rats are blind?


Jessica St. Clair  57:51

Yes, they’re basically blind. They go off of memory and scent. Okay, they know they’re the highways and byways of these New York City. They went on a whole thing. He’s like the moment they banned DDT or whatever that was. He goes, that war was lost. He said, what you’re not seeing behind you know, we’ve had friends who had a toilet rat. They hold their breath. We had a friend who’s their gigantic super rat in their in their oven. Okay? No, listen to our dear friend who she said she had a mouse in the house. Okay, and I said move so I said you must move like there’s no, you must move, you must move like I don’t know what to tell you it you set it on fire and you walk away.


June Diane Raphael  58:42

Get out of there. Get they live there now like.


Jessica St. Clair  58:45

Yeah, nature laws were nature’s taken back over and that is it for you.


June Diane Raphael  58:52

I know. Anyway, Jess..


Jessica St. Clair  58:55

I didn’t even get to talk about Taylor Swift and her new boyfriend, who I was on board for until he walked out with that scene.


June Diane Raphael  59:04

Everybody’s upset about that. I am too. I will say though, that Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift and this budding romance. I’m a Kansas City Chiefs fan. Okay.


Jessica St. Clair  59:15

All right. Want to see them together?


June Diane Raphael  59:17

I am fucking, loving it.


Jessica St. Clair  59:19

I’m loving. I’m loving that he put a call out to her that she responded. I love that she’s wearing coordinated outfits to the team that she’s up there in a read that lips to his mom, for her to have some fun.


June Diane Raphael  59:36

Oh my God, I am so excited about this relationship or whatever it is. I don’t care what it is. I just love it so much. And to me, this is fall. This relationship is fall. And I know we’re in summer two and I know we’ll explain what all of these terms mean. New Deep Divers, but It’s giving me such a fresh lease on life. These two together, it’s hot. It’s hot. And I know he shouldn’t have worn that outfit but he’s still fucking hot.


Jessica St. Clair  1:00:10

Listen, let’s, let’s let her do her thing with him. And let’s see where he she takes his style. Let’s see, as bebe said, huge Swift fan. She, I said it’s hard to date a football player. It’s hard. He’s in a different city. And she goes, it’s hard to be with a superstar. Maybe they understand one another.


June Diane Raphael  1:00:38

I think they just might. I think they just might. And you know what, I think it’s just fun. I’m here for it. Love that. I think it’s just fun. Deep divers. Thank you so much for listening. And we’ve got so much more to talk about, we’re gonna really tackle Halloween.


Jessica St. Clair  1:00:55

Guys, I feel comfortable now. I feel like I can breathe.


June Diane Raphael  1:01:00

It took a while. Yeah, we might have to put a disclaimer at the beginning of the episode to like fast forward for the first you know.


Jessica St. Clair  1:01:06

Dysregulation, dysregulation trigger one. Yeah, I finally dropped it. Thank you guys for being on this journey with us. We’re here. Okay, the matt cheese was moved but we are affirmed found it and we’re here.


June Diane Raphael  1:01:19

Yes. And we will see you next week. Bye guys.


Jessica St. Clair  1:01:36

No secrets movie. He is doing the dance. Go buddy. Happy dance. Oh, good. Leftover, deep Lascaux dive in deep.


CREDITS 1:02:00

The DEEP DIVE is produced by Lemonada media Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael. Our producers Ana Cecilia, our associate producer is Dani Matias and ours supervising producer is Jamela Zarha Williams. Our engineer is Johnny Vince Evans. Additional Lemonada support from Steve Nelson, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Special thanks to Anne Geddes for a cover art and Lennon Parham. For her sweet sweet vocals. The best way to support us is to rate and review. Follow The Deep Dive wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.


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