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With Election Day around the corner, host Maya Rupert continues her conversation with Gaby Goldstein, co-founder of Sister District, about the critical importance of voting in state legislative races. They discuss key battleground states to watch in the upcoming election, plus, strategies for how we can all become more informed voters when it comes to state-level candidates and issues.

This episode is created in partnership with Sister District. To learn more and take action with Sister District, go to sisterdistrict.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Gabby Goldstein, Maya Rupert

Maya Rupert  01:13

Hello and welcome to Good Things. I’m your host, Maya Rupert, with election day right around the corner, we’re bringing you part two of our deep dive into democracy and why it’s so important to vote all the way down the ticket. We’re talking again to Gabby Goldstein, a co founder of sister district. They are working to increase voter agency and empowerment at the polls and show us what’s at stake in our states this election today. We’re talking to Gabby about why voting all the way down the ballot is the best way to make sure your voice is heard. Gabby, welcome back to Good Things, and thank you for joining us the second time for the second episode where I think we’re gonna get to drill in a little bit more on some of the stuff we got to talk about last time, which will be great.

 

Gabby Goldstein  01:58

I’m so excited to be back. Thank you for having me.

 

Maya Rupert  02:00

Of course, okay, so we talked a bit, a little bit about it last time, but let’s get right into ballot roll off, which is obviously a big issue that sister district is focusing on right now. And I’m just curious what was sort of the impetus for that, like, was there a moment? Was there like a stat you guys were seeing or something that made you say, hey, wait. We really need to take a closer look at what exactly this is.

 

Gabby Goldstein  02:25

Yes, absolutely. So just as a quick reminder, our whole mission is to build progressive power in state legislatures. We started the org because we saw a gap in organizing capacity, in resources going to great progressive folks running for state legislature and serving in their state legislatures. And so when we kicked this project off in late 2016 there was a lot of energy and excitement about Democrats and progressives, and it was just the earliest days of the Trump administration, and we saw this. We, you know, we threw up a website overnight, and 10s of 1000s of people started signing up right away, raising their hand to build some power in our state legislatures. So we had all these folks, and we were like, Okay, what do we do with them? Hmm, I guess we should figure out what to do with all of these folks who have raised their hands. And so we realized very quickly Virginia, Virginia was going to be the place in 2017 Democrats were in a big hole in the legislature, 15 seats down just to reach parity in the House of Delegates. And so we knew it was going to be a big process and an effort. And that November, we came within one literal vote of Democrats having control of the Virginia House of Delegates. So it came down to a tie in one single district, Shelly Simon’s district. And when that tie breaker was decided, which was by pulling the names of the candidates out of a ceramic bowl, it was not Shelley’s name. And, you know, she lost that tie breaker, and we didn’t gain control of that chamber. And what a lesson right out of the gate for us, and how close the margins are at the state legislative level, these aren’t being decided by 10s of 1000s of votes or 50,000 votes or 100,000 it’s literally one one vote that year. And so right off the bat, we saw that these races were going to be really tight, and also that there was a big gap between the top of the ballot and our level of the ballot. So we’ll get into that, but that’s where our first inkling about ballot roll off came right out of the gate for us when we saw Shelley lose that tie because of one single vote.

 

Maya Rupert  04:59

Wow, now your research also shows that there are certain groups who tend not to vote for the entire ballot. Can you talk a little bit about that and unpack that a little bit as well?

 

Gabby Goldstein  05:12

Yeah, so when we started looking at ballot roll off, which just means that’s the phenomenon where someone votes for the candidate at their the top of their ballot, for instance, president and then literally rolls off the ballot, does not vote at the state legislative level, just doesn’t tick that box. We started to notice when we when we did this work, that there there were likely demographics of voters who are more likely to to just roll off their ballot and not vote down down ballot than others. So we did a bunch of research to ask voters, to poll them, to survey them. We did qualitative research to in focus groups to ask voters specifically, do you vote for state ledge? If not? Why not? And what we learned is that there are definitely certain demographics, definitely some groups of folks who are much more likely to tick the top of the box and not the bottom of the box, and those are women voters, of color and young voters, those are the folks who are most likely to roll off their ballots.

 

Maya Rupert  06:20

Would you mentioned that it’s voters of color, it’s women, it’s young voters who tend to roll out the most. Is that because they tend to be progressive voters? Or is that among progressive voters? I guess I’m trying to understand, you know, are we controlling for whether they’re progressive or conservative, or is that kind of almost rolled into the question.

 

Gabby Goldstein  06:43

Yeah, it was across the board, regardless of ideology, Women Voters of color and young voters are the most likely to roll off their ballots.

 

Maya Rupert  06:52

That is really interesting. What does that do for us, sort of being able to say which groups are behaving that way? What does it do for us to have that information.

 

Gabby Goldstein  07:01

It’s so important for us to know because these are the folks who are often most impacted by the state laws that we’re talking about, right? These are the folks whose voices are so, so necessary to our democracy, right? Women Voters, of color, young people, young voters, and so knowing that they’re most likely to roll off the ballot now gives us the opportunity to really hone in on finding ways to empower them and excite them specifically to vote down ballot, as opposed to there is sometimes A tendency to treat everybody the same right, just use the same messaging and the same framework for all voters. We know that’s not the best way to reach voters and to help them feel empowered and excited, and so knowing who is most likely to roll off gives us that opportunity to really dig in and better understand and similarly, knowing that knowledge is something that keeps us back, keeps our voters back from voting down ballot, that really gives us the opportunity to explore how to increase knowledge for our voters, right? Not just about what state legislatures do, but I think especially to be able to connect for voters the fact that the issues that they care because people go out and they vote, they vote for issues right like they’ve what we care about are issues. We care about abortion access. We care about slowing down, reversing climate change. You know, we care about making sure that our LGBTQ kids are safe and that our kids are safe at school from gun violence, right? So these are the issues that motivate us. And knowing what we’re what we’ve learned is that our voters don’t know that states really control every single one of those right? They we just our voters need some help in in understanding that so knowing that means that we can craft messages and campaigns and outreach specifically to connect the dots for our voters, so that they understand that the issues they care about are actually decided by states, not by their Congress person, right, not by the President, usually, right. Most of the time it’s really these state legislatures that are, you know, often very unrepresentative. We talked about that a little bit, lots and lots of old, rich white men who run our state legislatures, but, but these are the folks who have the power to make these decisions around the policies that get us out to vote in the first place. So again, knowing, knowing the who and the why of you know who’s not voting down ballot and why, gives us the chance to help build the case, to make the case to our voters about why. Why voting at this level, the ballot matters, and as we talked about the other day. How every single vote matters at this level of the ballot, right?

 

Maya Rupert  10:04

I also think it’s a really, it’s a really important point, because it pushes back against a narrative that I think we’ve all heard for a very long time, that there are sort of these apathetic non voters, right? That the idea of people who aren’t turning out, who aren’t voting, that it’s a lack of care, and it could not be further from the truth. It sounds like these are people who care immensely and take it so seriously and recognize that they are of the communities that are at risk enough that they are not going to take this lightly, and they are not comfortable with a lack of knowledge, whereas people who get credited as being voters, and therefore we never have a conversation about their apathy levels, are actually describing feeling comfortable with a lack of information and still doing it. So I just think that there’s a normative nature to the way we talk about non voting that this really problematizes, which I’m so grateful for, because that’s such a disparaging and condescending thing that people get told every year that that’s why people aren’t showing up, and we we always I feel like knew it wasn’t true, and this is giving us really important language and data to push back against it.

 

Gabby Goldstein  11:15

100% I think our data shows that our voters are really thoughtful about voting, and they don’t want to vote for someone who might hurt their community. They want to make sure that they have good information. I think that the interesting thing is that for conservatives, the R is enough, because when we’re talking about this state legislative level, we’re talking about voters who are going to the general election with a choice between a D and an R for their state legislature. And what’s interesting to me is that on our side, the D isn’t enough, and on their side, the R is enough. A lot of our voters, you know, are looking for more information and feel like they don’t have enough information, even though they know the party affiliation of the candidates. And I think that that is an opportunity for Democrats to take a look at our brand and our identity and to make sure that we’re living our values as candidates and as a party, so that the D becomes a closer Association in our minds with who we know we want to vote for when we have that D versus R opportunity.

 

Maya Rupert  12:36

We’re gonna take a quick break, but We’ll be right back with more on Good Things.

 

Maya Rupert  13:34

We know every single vote counts, but one of the things that you’re saying that people gave back as a reason not to vote is they don’t feel like their vote counts. That disconnect feels that seems almost like an obvious one. There fewer people vote. That means the votes count more. But why is that not getting through? And what can we do to get it through?

 

Gabby Goldstein  14:59

Yeah, you know so another theme that came through in the qualitative and the quantitative research was that our voters feel like their votes for state legislative elections don’t matter. And that is so interesting because, as you so correctly point out, at this level of the ballot, each vote matters way more than up the ticket. And I think that, you know, the reasons for that are many, right? I think that in general, you know, going back to our civics lessons, you know, I don’t know about you, but I certainly didn’t learn much about my state legislature when I was in school.

 

Maya Rupert  15:39

No.

 

Gabby Goldstein  15:39

There was a huge, huge focus in social studies and civics on our federal government and all the powers that the President had, you know, the three branches of government and all this. And so I think from an early age we we don’t have a lot of opportunity to imagine what our state governments do. We don’t even learn that much about them. And so I think it starts really early. There this feeling of disconnection to our states. But I think also, you know, there’s been a tremendous decline in local media and so, so few state houses, you know, state legislatures even have full time reporters that are talking about what’s happening in our states, so much of our news has become nationalized, and the places where people go for their media consumption, especially young voters, right? And voters from other communities are going to social media and going, you know, to less traditional media sources, and there’s just such I mean, they’re flooding the zone with federal stuff, right? So it’s also just really hard to even know what is happening in your state capital or why it would even matter to you. And so I think that all of that contributes to feeling like it wouldn’t matter if you voted for that level of government because you have never heard that it would matter, right? There’s never been the case made to you that this is important and and all the rest. So I think there’s a few factors at play there, but certainly we’re in a civics hole when it comes to thinking and imagining and knowing about what our state governments do.

 

Maya Rupert  17:23

Absolutely so we have a moment here, though, right? We are coming up on a huge opportunity to reverse some of these trends. We have the election coming. Can you talk a little bit about what are you doing at sister district to encourage voters to vote from the top to the bottom of these ballots in November.

 

Gabby Goldstein  17:44

You know, in 2020 which also feels like yesterday and many, many decades ago.

 

Maya Rupert  17:49

How is that possible? It feels like both.

 

Gabby Goldstein  17:53

But truly. You know, thinking about 2020 there were so, so many people who voted for Joe Biden, who did not vote for their state legislative Democrats. So just as one example, in 2020, in Arizona, which we know was such an intense battleground, there were almost 600,000 more people who voted for Joe Biden. They went out, they voted for Joe Biden. More than half a million people voted for Joe Biden, and then they didn’t vote for their state house candidate. We would have only needed 4400 votes to flip the house in Arizona. So if just 4400 of the 600,000 people who did the hardest thing they got to the ballot box, they voted for Joe Biden. If just 4400 of them had voted for state leg, we would have flipped that chamber. So, you know, that’s just one example. We ran the numbers in 2020 and if we had been able to decrease roll off by 2% or less, just a little bit. If we had just been able to get people again who were already out to vote for president, to vote down ballot, just a little bit more 2% or less, we could have flipped 14 additional chambers in nine states.

 

Maya Rupert  19:15

Wow.

 

Gabby Goldstein  19:16

So that’s all to say. This is another presidential year. We’re also facing a similar pattern this year where we have to combat roll off, and it’s going to make a huge difference. So we took this research that we developed over the past few years studying how often roll off happens. Who rolls all off their ballot, why they roll off all the stuff that we’ve been talking about, we took all of that and we moved into a next phase of research, where we started developing and testing messages for our voters, targeting our voters to see what kinds of messages would get them to feel more confident in voting. First State ledge, get them more excited about voting for state ledge, and give them that knowledge boost that they need they feel they need to get over the hump and vote down ballot. And we found some really, really interesting things, which we’re putting out into the field this year. And I’ll just share a couple of the things that we found in in our message testing and message development work that really helped move our voters again, liberal voters, to feel that confidence and excitement to vote down ballot. One is around this is not going to be a surprise to anyone, reproductive freedom and specifically helping our voters understand that abortion access and reproductive choice issues are decided by state legislatures. And it’s interesting because it’s couple years past Dobbs, and I think a lot of us listening in, you know, we know that it’s it’s a state ball game. Now, right? We know that without federal protections for abortion access, it’s down to the states to decide. But interestingly, a lot of our voters out there in battleground states don’t know that, and what we’ve found is showing our voters an example of how close these margins are really gets them going, and really gets them excited about voting down ballot. So showing voters an example, for instance, 63 votes flipped the entire Pennsylvania House in 2022, 63 votes, when we give them that example, we see movement. We see much higher enthusiasm to vote for state legislature. And again, it’s you know, not just telling voters, but showing them, giving them a concrete example that’s connected to their lives, that feels bite sized, where they could really see themself reflected in what we’re sharing with them really helps folks feel motivated and excited to vote for state legislature.

 

Maya Rupert  22:12

Okay, hold tight, everyone. We’re gonna take one more quick break, and we’ll be back with more Good Things.

 

Maya Rupert  24:51

Are there any razor thin margins that we’re looking at where you know we can change the composition of a house, or can we predict of those for this one?

 

Gabby Goldstein  25:02

Absolutely I mean, look, Arizona remains at the top of our list, at the top of so many folks lists in terms of flip ability. We have been on the cusp of flipping this state legislature in Arizona for cycles and cycles and we talked earlier, 4400 votes is all we needed to win in 2020 and we think that we have a really good chance to do that this year. You know, there are not just states where we think we can flip entire chambers, but also where we have to hold on to razor thin majorities. And Michigan is at the top of that list. For me, it has been incredible to see what big Gretch and her beautiful blue legislature have been able to accomplish in the past few years. We’ve got sister district alum Winnie Brinks, who’s the Senate majority leader. She’s the first Senate majority leader who’s a woman in the history of the state, I putting together such an incredible slate of legislation that has really brought Michigan to the forefront of progressive values and living those values so but you know that this the house, there is really a razor thin margin, and We absolutely have to hold on to it. Similarly, Minnesota, I mean, we’ve been learning quite a bit about the governor in Minnesota. It was absolutely incredible. I just saw this great clip from when he was running for governor, and you know, he’s like, almost apoplectic at the podium that he’s at saying, I’m so pro choice. Nancy Pelosi took me aside and asked me if I should tone it down. I stand with Planned Parenthood. I stand with choice. And it was great. But of course, you know, they have this beautiful Trifecta that’s also very, very fragile. And so, you know, there’s a Senate seat that could decide the balance there and in those house, seats need to be protected. The other thing I’d share is that Wisconsin is an incredible opportunity for us. Wisconsin has historically been one of the most gerrymandered states in the country. Republicans got a an iron grip on the legislature by gerrymandering in the 2010, election cycle through their project red map strategy, which worked, worked like a charm, and they’ve been they were able to maintain that Stranglehold over the legislature even though Wisconsin has voted blue at the state level, you know, for governor, for all of its statewide offices for cycles. Then came the election of a progressive state supreme court judge, Judge Janet last year that flipped the composition of the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and they threw out those maps, and they made them draw fair maps, and now Wisconsin has a fair maps. And so we have a huge opportunity, especially in the lower chamber this year, to get really close to flipping. If we don’t get all the way this year, we’ll get there soon, right.

 

Maya Rupert  28:20

So now you just you touched on this in the examples that you were giving, but can you share more about Sister district’s political strategy of focusing on these sort of three types of chambers?

 

Gabby Goldstein  28:33

We are always looking for three types of chambers. So to take a step back, there are over 7000 state legislative seats in this country, and you have to have some filter, right? You have to have a strategy for how to go from 7000 down to the truly handfuls of seats that end up controlling majorities. So for us, we do that with a portfolio approach that includes three types of chambers we’re always looking in any given year for blue flips, which are chambers where we think we have a chance to flip the entire chamber this year. So Arizona, both the House and the Senate, are examples there, where we’re just two seats away in those chambers from flipping. And so that fits into the blue flip category. Then there are the blue holds, and those are chambers where Democrats have a really fragile majority, where we have to hold on to that majority and not let Republicans gain control of the of the chamber. So I mentioned that the Michigan House and the chambers in Minnesota are great examples there. Otherwise, it’s two steps forward, one step back, right? If you gain a majority and you don’t protect it, then you know, we’ve seen that happen in places like Virginia over and over in the past decade, where we’ve gained. Majority and lost majority and gain majority right back and forth like a ping pong but so that’s the blue hold category. And then the third is what I like to call no chamber left behind. The third category is our blue inroads chambers. And those are places where we don’t have a one cycle solution. We’re not going to be able to flip the chamber this year, but we have to put our stake in the ground and make long term commitments to building power in these legislatures so that we get to be in a position to flip over a period of time. We have to have a longer time horizon. So for us, North Carolina is that that sort of state, and I would say Georgia. We have been working with candidates in Georgia for many years now, because it is such there is such tremendous opportunity for progressives in Georgia, not just at the presidential level and the Senate level, which we learned very clearly in the past few years, of course, but also at the state legislative level. And so those are a few of the states and chambers that fit into that portfolio approach with the three types that we’re looking for.

 

Maya Rupert  31:15

Okay, that makes sense so I feel like throughout this conversation, one of the big themes have been that feeling empowered comes with knowledge information. So for folks that are listening, how can people become better informed about their state races and their candidates?

 

Gabby Goldstein  31:35

Well, what I can say is that a little bit goes a long way at this level of the ballot, yes, unlike congressional races or gubernatorial races, even, or, dare I say, the presidential these races, you can get to know a candidate. You can get to know the community that they’re running in, whether it’s your community or somewhere else, and the impact the return on your hour of volunteering time, or your $10 donation is so so big at this level. So getting involved in state level races is a tremendous way to force multiply your efforts. It doesn’t have to be an either or, right? You don’t have to stop working to elect Harris Walls, please don’t everyone keep working, but you can add in a little bit, right? You can add in an hour here or there to do some phone banking to a battleground state to help change the future of the state through their legislature. And so at sister district, we’ve got phone banks running every week, almost every day. Now, as we get closer to the election, we’ve got teams, over 100 teams across the country, teams and affiliates that are meeting in person to hold small fundraisers and go in Canvas for state leg candidates. So you know, it’s a great way to just add in some additional types of volunteering to whatever you’re doing for activism, this, in this incredibly important year. Other than that, I think it’s really important to start following folks in your states, the folks who are in elected office, they they need our help and support too. We need to show them that when they do good work, that we’re paying attention and that we support them. It can be really lonely work to be in the state legislature. These folks don’t have huge media profiles, and you know, there’s reporters aren’t banging down their door, but they’re hard at work every day, often, as we’ve talked about often, for little to no pay, you know, making everything, scraping everything together so that they can serve and and it makes a huge difference to know that that folks have their back. And likewise, on the flip side, holding these folks accountable is huge. So for the folks who are in office, who are doing, you know, work that we don’t agree with, those anti choice, anti environmental incumbents. You know, the the folks serving who who do not reflect our values. We gotta let them know too, not just at the ballot box, but all year long, whether that’s writing a letter to your newspaper, you know, penning an op ed about how important issues are to you and how you’re not seeing that reflected in who your your lawmakers are. All kinds of ways follow them on social media, you know, retweet the good stuff they’re doing. Like I said, these are folks where a little bit goes a long way, not just in terms of resources, but also in terms of, you know, emotional support and all the rest.

 

Maya Rupert  34:46

Absolutely, so then for our listeners, who are, you know, you’re hearing this and thinking, you know, I don’t tend to vote my whole ballot, and there’s no shame in that. But for those folks, what is the message? What can they do? To empower themselves. And likewise, for the listeners who are saying, I do, I go top to bottom. What can they do to help?

 

Gabby Goldstein  35:08

So check out sisterdistrict.com We’ve done a ton of political research to figure out what the races are that are most in play at the state legislative level, in the states where there where it matters the most. So we’ve, we’ve endorsed those tipping point candidates. We call them tipping point candidates, those folks who are going to make or break the majority in their legislature. Like I said, there’s 7000 folks in their in state legislatures. We’ve got it down to, you know, handfuls, dozens and dozens, right of the seats that are going to matter at the most and just learn about, learn, learn a little bit. Keep your mind open to issues. Talk to your friends about state stuff you know, for your politically minded friends who just, you know, can’t get off the national polar coaster, you know, talk have. Have a conversation about who’s running in your state, whether it’s for a state legislative office or another statewide office, even local offices. So bring it into your life in a way that feels right to you. And also, I’d encourage folks to get out of the media social media bubbles that you’re in and follow some state lawmakers on Twitter and Facebook, follow some organizations like Sister district and Emily’s list and run for something which are all working with state and local candidates to learn more about who’s running and and these incredible leaders that are coming up in our states, There’s all kinds of ways to just build in a little bit of joy around state stuff into whatever else you’re doing, and thinking about.

 

Maya Rupert  36:49

Beautiful, I love that. Gabby, truly. Thank you for this conversation. Thank you for the work that you’re doing to empower voters, to educate all of us on what is happening in the States. Just thank you for all of the good things.

 

Gabby Goldstein  37:04

Thank you for all the good things. Thanks so much for having me.

 

CREDITS  37:13

Thanks for listening to Good Things. I hope you enjoyed our two part series on democracy to learn more about increasing voter agency and empowerment at the polls. Check out Sister District’s down ballot voter toolkit at sisterdistrict.com/downballot/toolkit and remember, vote all the way down the ticket this election day. This episode is created in partnership with Sister District. I’m your host, Maya Rupert.  This series is produced by Hannah Boomershine and Lisa Phu our supervising producer is Muna Danish, mixing and Sound Design by Noah Smith. Steve Nelson is our SVP of weekly content. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Thanks so much for listening. We’ll see you next week. Follow Good Things wherever you get your podcasts and listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.