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Actor Jay Ellis is in the hottest movie of the summer – Top Gun: Maverick. Andy escapes with Jay into a world of nostalgia, childhood dreams coming true, and trying to act while traveling 1,200 mph and 8 Gs without puking. Jay shares how growing up on Air Force bases with a jet mechanic for a father prepared him for this role and the communal power of a packed movie theater after years of pandemic isolation. Jay also hosts The Untold Story on Lemonada Media.

Keep up with Andy on Twitter @ASlavitt.

Follow Jay Ellis on Twitter @JayREllis and Instagram @jayrellis.

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For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com/show/inthebubble.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Andy Slavitt, Jay Ellis

Andy Slavitt  00:24

Welcome to IN THE BUBBLE. This is your host, Andy Slavitt. It is Wednesday, June 8th. And we have a really great show for you today. Jay Ellis is on the show. Jay Ellis, he’s an actor and activist. He is in a great new movie. Perhaps you’ve heard of it. It’s called Top Gun: Maverick. And it’s sweeping the country. So you might ask yourself, why within the bubble, want to do an episode with a guy who is just in a movie Top Gun: Maverick. And popcorn movie? Big budget. Will tell you it’s interesting. I mean, this show which some of you been listening a long time will remember started in 2020. Around the pandemic in the first year. Some of our guests included Mark Cuban, Tina Fey, Jim Gaffigan, Kumail Nanjiani, Judd Apatow, Jose Andres, Adam Schefter from ESPN, Steve Kerr, coach of the Golden State Warriors, Mike Birbiglia, the comedian. So we even in between all the scientists and talking about the science of COVID, and the political leaders talking about the policy response, you know, we felt it was important to just have a number of kind of cultural icons, kind of because they were many of our guideposts to like what was changing in the world and what was the same and if you haven’t listened to the some of those episodes, if you’re new to the show, you can go back and listen to Tina Fey, Kumail Nanjiani whose wife was immunocompromised, Steve Kerr, his father was a victim of gun violence and was essentially coaching inside the NBA bubble. There were just very unique and interesting perspectives from very interesting people. And I think it’s just part of our show. And so if you’ve only listened to scientists and political leaders, and economists and reporters to work on our show before, those are great shows, but you know, it’s sitting here as we are today, in 2022, I kind of wanted to test this idea that, you know, part of our life are the things that, you know, provide us a degree of joy and happiness, the things that make us feel normal, even if we’re compartmentalizing a little bit, and I can tell you about the benefits compartmentalizing, or you just demonstrate that, you know, for a lot of us, this is a movie people my age, who it was the age of big budget movies with what we called special effects that were shared experiences and where a lot of fun and a lot on I went to see this when we were in New York, and you’ll hear me talk about with Jay. And he’s great guy really interesting, a great interview, I think you’ll enjoy it. He grew up on an Air Force Base. He talks a lot about representation in Hollywood in this movie, what it was like to film this thing. And I think it’s just very interesting, a lot of fun. And I hope that whether your thing is big budget movies, or your thing is music, or baseball or seeing your family or barbecues, opera books, whatever it is that you get to do some of that this summer, or after Memorial Day, that it’s a part of the things that have historically made us happy. There’s room for those things. Yes, COVID is still here.

Andy Slavitt  03:53

Yes, we got a myriad of problems from the climate, to the economy to voting rights and justices, and they’re not going to be solved overnight. We’re going to bring you good coverage of these deep coverage of these great guests. And we got to resolve them and we got to maintain our sanity at the same time. And those things are really important too. So you’re gonna love this conversation with Jay. I also want to tell you about another thing that I’ve started listening to came out this week. It’s a new podcast called V INTERESTING. And if you could make room in your life for other podcasts, this is an interesting one. The host is someone named V Spehar. They are a popular TikTok artist. I will confess I’ve never been under TikTok but I was curious about the show because they do something called under the desk news, which provides a News Digest in 60 seconds or less. And this is, these effort to say hey, sometimes we take more than 60 seconds to know what the heck’s going on in the world? Two shows one on Tuesday, which tells you what you missed the news cycle and gives you some interesting takes. And on Friday goes a little bit deeper. Maybe we’ll have V on the show at some point, I think they’re very interesting. And go check it out. Definitely make room in your life for more podcasts than in the bubble. If you’d like this medium, I think it’s great medium, it’s good long form stuff. We could build a relationship. I could pretend I know you; you could pretend you know me. You could pretend you know V; you can pretend they know me. It’s just great. Because you get in your head. It’s very cool. And it’s one of things I can talk about what Jay is, at the end of the day,

Andy Slavitt 

life got some hard stuff in it. It’s okay to figure out what your coping techniques are. It’s one of the topics Jay and I will get into in the latter part of this show. So hope you enjoy it. And let’s bring in Jay Ellis.

Andy Slavitt  06:13

Hey, Jay welcome in the bubble.

Jay Ellis 

What up, Andy? Welcome to my bubble.

Andy Slavitt

So we were at we were in New York, we dropping our son off for his summer job in New York. And it was a hot day. And Lana was like, man, we need to go see Top Gun and go into the air conditioned theater. It’ll tell you like; I haven’t had that kind of feeling of just pure excitement in the style genre. I don’t know for you for a few years, at least of this is just going to be fun. I’m just going to forget about like everything else. It was like the middle of the afternoon. It was perfect. You know, all of us have these memories of the original Top Gun. I’m wondering what your kind of original sentiment is, and how you think about the original Top Gun movie?

Jay Ellis 

Yeah, you know, my dad was in the Air Force. My grandfathers were in the Air Force. So and I spent summers, usually with my grandparents in Sacramento. So even if I wasn’t on a base with my parents, I was still on a base with my grandparents, basically. So my entire, like, childhood is around aviation. And the first time I saw the movie was on an Air Force base. We were living in Austin, Texas at the time. And I just remember, like, the feeling in the theater, like you could, I don’t know, it was almost like you could reach out and grab whatever the feeling was like, everyone was going on this like roller coaster ride together and like tears. And, you know, people gasped when, you know, the guys rejected and they you know, everybody pumps their fist at the end when Maverick you know, gets a hit. And you know, the swell of like, you know, Iceman and Maverick at the end, and you could be my wing man anytime. And I just remember like, oh, man, I want to do that. Like whatever that is like, I don’t know what if it’s flying, cool. If that’s what it is, I’ll do that. If it’s being an actor or whatever. Like, I just remember. I don’t know, man, it was just it is, you know, as part it is definitely one of the reasons one of the films, I will say that, like made me want to be an actor. And then it also just has for me has all this texture to it. Because of the time in my life that I saw it.

Andy Slavitt  08:39

How much of that went into your audition, where you’re like, wait a minute, this movie was connected to at least a part of my life and a part of how I grew up and my family. And it made me both want to be an actor, and I love aviation. And so describe what it’s like when you’re like, Hey, someone told you, your agent told you hey, there auditioning. There’s some parts available. Like, how much did all that go into this?

Jay Ellis 

All of them. And I felt like I was trying to imitate my dad. I felt like, yeah, because I remember going to work. I was always in trouble as a kid. I’m an only child. School was just like a playground for me.

Andy Slavitt 

What kind of trouble?

Jay Ellis 

I mean, I would talk in class, I was always the class clown, like always playing pranks and jokes. I would never fight but I would always talk to the point of fighting and then I would run. But I feel like I just I spent a lot of time getting sent home from school, a lot of time getting sent home and I would have to go to work with one of my parents in the schools. At least when we lived on specifically in Austin, like the school that I went to was directly across the street from the base. My mom worked like downtown Austin at the time. So that meant that like I had to essentially go sit at work with my it. So I would sit in this hangar, my is a mechanic, he worked on jets. So I would sit in there and watch him with like all his friends and coworkers. And I would see the difference when like, you know, they had leadership or someone more senior than them in the room versus when they didn’t, I would see what it was like for him to actually use his hands on the plane and like how much pride he took in his job. And then at the same time, I’m staring at this jet, you know, in this massive, you know, beautiful feat of aviation.

Andy Slavitt  10:32

those are powerful looking things up close.

Jay Ellis 

Yeah, super powerful. It’s like meeting like a cheetah up close, or something like a panther up close. Like, it’s crazy. They’re super muscular, and long and lean, and it’s insane. And but I definitely felt like I was trying to imitate my dad through some of that I used to joke. You know, my dad looked like an action figure when I was a kid. And so I felt like I was trying to like, stay with all this discipline that he obviously had learned and respected and reverence that he had for being in the service and growing up in it. So I felt like I was trying to step into that in my audition and trying to bring that as much as I could just do in the role in general.

Andy Slavitt

So how did you hear about the part? Before we get into the movie, I’m just so curious as it sounds, to me, like one of the sort of a dream come true stories, where you’re like, maybe I could be in Top Gun.

Jay Ellis 

Yeah, I just, I got a call from my agent. Ali gave me a call. And he was like, hey, man, so we have an audition that’s coming in. And he’s super-fast. Hey, man, we have an audition coming in for you. It’s Top Gun, they’re going to remake the movie. Tom Cruise is starring in it; you’re auditioning for the role of Payback. It’s one of the pilots, we’ll put it in your inbox. And you’re going to see the director and the casting director on Tuesday. And I was like, you just said so much information also Top Gun. And Tom Cruise, what are you talking about? Like, you can’t just run, just do a run on sentence like that. So that was my initial thought. And I just remember going like, oh, man, like, I’m gonna book this, like, I know this life, like I am. By first, like the first 12 years of my life, were preparing for this role, like, I am going to book this. And then, you know, you get the sides and you study them like crazy. And I’m like, oh, I could do this. And like, I could try that. And this will be fun. Oh, maybe I should. So it’s me. And it’s Fanboy and Maverick and for my audition scene, I was like, maybe I should try this. And I remember going in and meeting Joe Kosinski, our director, and Denise Chaman who cast the movie, and I did this thing. And Joe was like, yeah, yeah. so let’s not do that. Let’s pull that back. Let’s just try it one more time. And this time, don’t get, just don’t do that. Let’s do it again. So I did it. And he goes, there it is. That’s what I’m talking about. Perfect. Thank you. And that was it. And I was like, well, I guess I blew that. Like, I’m definitely not booking this movie. Because whatever that first tape was, he hated it. And so at the end,  on Thursday morning, I found out that Tom was gonna watch my tape that weekend. And it was mind blowing, man. Like, at that point, I was like, whether I get it or not, Tom Cruise is watching me act. That’s all that matters. Like, at the end of the day, Tom’s gonna watch, he is gonna be at his house. I’m gonna be on a screen in his house, and he’s gonna watch me act. I won. No matter what. Obviously, I really wanted the job. But like, that was the way I tried to like, spin it for myself. So I didn’t obsess over it the whole weekend. And then that following Monday, my team called me and told me I got it, you know, screamed and yelled. And I was like, y’all stop playing with me. And it was amazing.

Andy Slavitt 

Let’s play a little bit of you. And your characters, Payback. Let’s play a little bit of you in the movie. And then I want to ask you about Payback. So tell us about Payback. Tell us about this role that in what Payback role in the movie is who you had to be to do Payback.

Jay Ellis  14:15

Yeah, you know, when I heard the name payback, like first of all, I just kind of went into like, my thought of his backstory and how he ultimately got that call sign. And I, you know, there’s two things there’s either a guy who like just ultimately always has a chip on his shoulder and is just looking to like, give people payback. You know what I mean? Or, you know, the fun version of it was a guy who just refuses to like, actually pay people back when he borrows money. So they just call them Payback. But when I kind of thought about, like, that first version of it, it just made me think of like, oh, these pilots are the best of the best of the best in the world. So if you were that, there isn’t you know, there’s a cockiness, there’s a swagger today, right? Like when you know you’re that good? You know, when LeBron walks on the court, Steph walks on the court like We know what that is, like we see the swag. And so to me, it was like, alright, well, this is a guy who like is very confident and very sure of himself. And for me the journey was, if that’s the case, if that’s how we start this guy, how do we ultimately humble him. And so I just always kind of envisioned and talk to Joe and McHugh and Tom and Jerry about like making Payback a guy who was like very confident, very cocky, and knew that he was the best of the best. And then all of a sudden, he’s getting thrown with this backseat, or with a WIZO, who’s played by Danny Ramirez, who plays fanboy. And now all of a sudden, for the first time, he has someone else in his plane. And he has to figure out how to be a teammate in that plane, because he can’t do it all by himself, because that’s not the way it works. And so that he’s, they’re going to be in a bit of a power struggle and fight and try to figure out who’s really running the run in the plane. But at the end of the day, it’s two brains one plane, and they have to do it together if they want to get on this mission, and going through the training with Matt, and the rest of the team ultimately, kind of gets him to this place where he realizes that him and fanboy need to get on the same page.

Andy Slavitt  16:04

And what a Tom Cruise say, if anything about how he saw this part, I mean, even here, I hear so many people talk about this in so many ways as his movie, he decided when to make it, you know, his vision of it. Was he at the level of detail where he conceived of how he wanted the part to go, or did you really want you to bring yourself in and help form that?

Jay Ellis 

So a little bit of both. I mean, I think he had an idea of how this team was supposed to fit together. And there needed to be certain dynamics between the characters. And I think once he saw what we individually were bringing to it, that shifted, which character was bringing which dynamic, right, he may have thought that originally, you know, my character was going to bring this thing, but instead he sees what I’m doing. And he’s like, okay, let’s lean into that. Right? And so I think like he was really good at like, seeing what we were doing and like really fine tuning it to make it better not taking us out of what we were doing. Which was a really interesting thing man, because like he just kept saying that, like I want you guys to shine, I want you to have your moment I want you to be the best at what you’re doing. And so what he really focused on and Joe as well, and even McHugh like would walk in and like, you know, lean in and give a note every once in a while. And it was really on just really fine tuning what we each were individually doing to make it really stand out and really give these characters like defining moments, so you remember them for who they are.

Andy Slavitt  18:03

Was it intimidating, working with someone like Cruise, who’s just sort of this one of the few larger than life people and in a movie that looms large for so much of the public?

Jay Ellis 

Yeah, you know, what’s crazy is I think we walked in and put all the things around it, right? We are walking in with our preconceived notion of what a movie star is. And what Tom Cruise is a movie star is by what we’ve watched, what we’ve read, or whatever, whatever you know, however, you’ve he’s been in your life, right? And so I think like you walk in like that, and then like, you start working with him day to day, and you’re like, oh, this dude wants to talk about like, the Cubs, or whatever, like he’s a very down to earth dude, who just happens to be the biggest movie star in the world. And that all that intimidation, kind of like it melts away really, really quickly, because you realize that he wants two things. One, he told us for this from the beginning, he was like, you guys are movie stars and you’re the next wave of movie stars. And I want each of you to step into your power. And I believe that we are going to find that in these characters. And so when you have someone who’s like at his level, leaning in and telling you that, it really does wipe away the intimidation factor, because he’s like your biggest champion all of a sudden.

Andy Slavitt 

That’s an incredibly generous thing to say.

Jay Ellis 

It is, insanely.

Andy Slavitt 

I mean, when you and I should make notes when we’re in that position to do that for somebody because it’s incredible. Now, it all sounds hard and challenging and overwhelming on land. But I mean, you were not on land. You were filming this movie. I don’t even know how to describe it to people who haven’t seen it. And so maybe you can tell us just about the training and what you all had to do while you were acting.

Jay Ellis  19:58

Yeah. So when we all first meet Tom or not first meet him but one of our first few times with him we all go and sit in Joe Kosinski’s office. It’s us, Joe Jerry, and our editor, Eddie Hamilton. And Tom shows us some test footage that he’s shot in an F18. And we’re all like, whoa, wow, oh, like we’re all going through the, you know, going through it. And then he turns around, and he goes, I’m gonna teach you guys how to do that. And we’re all like, what is he talking about? I don’t think we none of us really believed that we were going to film as much of the movie in the back of F18 as we did, I think we all thought we were just gonna go for a few rides, fill in our body, and then go create that, some like on a stage. And that was not the case at all whatsoever. Very quickly, we learned we were going to fly.

Andy Slavitt  20:50

How many of you threw up?

Jay Ellis 

I would say four of the six threw up. I was not one of them. Monica Barbaro was not one of them. So I’ll let everybody else do the deduction on who those other four might be. But it wasn’t us. But then, you know, so Tom created this flight training program for us. That was like 40-45 hours it was across, it started with some ground school. And then it went into three different aircraft. And from a single propeller plane, to another single propeller plane that could pull like up to 8 G’s or 9 G’s and then into a small two seater jet. And then we got into the F18’s . And his whole thing was like, when he shot the original, they didn’t give that to them. They just threw them in the back of jets. And nobody wanted to do it because they all got sick or passed out or whatever. And he was up for the challenge. Worn out still, because he had no training, but he was up for it. And he’s like, I want you guys to be prepared for it. So the whole training thing was really just to get us to understand what it’s like to pull G’s consistently, pull G’s and build your endurance.

Andy Slavitt 

Can you explain that to those of us that have never done that? What does that feel like? What’s the closest thing?

Jay Ellis 

Yes, so like you know, 1G, you’re at 1G right now wherever you are in the world listening. You’re we’re all pretty good at 1G. But 1G is your body weight. It’s what we all feel right now. So if you’re 200 pounds, you feel 200 pounds at 1G as you walk the earth, as you go up in G’s, so does the feeling on your body, the pressure on your body. So when you get up to two G’s, it feels like 400 pounds of pressure. If it’s most of us post pandemic. You know, 3G’s is 600, and so forth, and so on. And we’re pulling up to 8G’s in this movie, consistently over and over and over again for two hours at a time. And that takes a huge toll on your body because your blood is constantly rushing from your head down, so you get very lightheaded. And then you’re doing this thing called a hick maneuver, which is really squeezing from your abdomen down. And basically, and it’s a breathing thing, but that is to try to help to push the blood back up to your head. So you’re in this constant battle between like with gravity is doing to your body, and in which your body is ultimately doing it to itself to keep you from passing out and it’s a workout, it’s a full workout.

Andy Slavitt 

And then you’ve got to deliver lines, you’d have to deliver lines at the same time.

Jay Ellis 

So, you know, you build an endurance to that. And then you get in the FA18s, and it’s this crazy experience. And you’re like, oh man, I’m gonna F18, this is wild. And then you realize, oh, right, I have to roll the cameras, I have to sound sink, I have to tell the pilot which direction to put the plane. So the sun is in the right place, I also have to tell the pilot that on the end of this dialogue, I need him to pull this maneuver, I need to make sure I have my visor and my mask straight. I need to make sure I have enough sweat on my forehead. I need to also make sure that I’m keeping notes so I can relay everything that I’m doing back to everybody at base camp when we land. And I need to say the lines for this movie. So you’re up there, you’re a one man show one person show up there filming this thing. And it’s wild man. Like it’s not you know, it’s a film school. Like we literally were an acting school, film, school and flight school all at the same time.

Andy Slavitt  24:18

And if you miss a line, like you can’t, how do you redo that take.

Jay Ellis 

No, I mean, luckily so you know, you would go up and because you’re up there by yourself. You’re hundreds of miles away from base camp. So the director is not watching a feed, right? And telling you to redo it. So you basically go up there and you say, Hi, I’m Jay. Hey, I’m Jay. Hi, I’m Jay. Like you’re basically just up there running it until you feel like you got it. And then you reset and do it again. And then you ultimately move on to the next thing and that was the entire process and it is you know, then you got to get down, you land, you go across, you know, you go across the base. You pull off all your gear and then you sit in a room with 40-50 people from your department heads to Navy folks to your editor, director, Tom, Jerry, everybody. And you watch your footage in real time, they scrub through your footage and you’re watching yourself up in the air doing all this stuff because it’s all lessons learned. It was you know, any person who took a flight at any time. You were able to learn something from their flight.

Andy Slavitt 

How fast did you go at the fastest moment?

Jay Ellis 

Actually 1300 miles an hour was 1298 I think is what we got up to knots. I have to remember what it was. I don’t remember what it was in knots, but it was still around 1200 knots.

Andy Slavitt 

I hate to compare. And it’s not a perfect comparison. But I have to hit record on this thing by myself when we start the podcast.

Jay Ellis 

You could probably do what I just did for sure.

Andy Slavitt 

Right. And I’m doing it at what G’s too.

Jay Ellis

Is the air conditioner on at your place, too?

Andy Slavitt  26:00

Yeah, I wouldn’t do it otherwise, but I’m not. I’m not crazy. I’m not crazy. But I’m not saying it’s the same day. I’m just saying I can relate. Now, one of the things that you just portrayed in the movie you grew up around is the military culture. I’m wondering, what are people’s misconceptions about military culture? I’ve read some takes on the movie, which puzzled me, which are pictures of people trying to put a political spin on the movie, being a pro-military, pro Patriot. And I have to be honest, I thought it was pro movie. But I also think, you know, we just had a four star general on the show, general Gustave Perna. And I got a chance to work with Perna inside the when I was in the White House. And it was really interesting, because like his critical moment, his claim to fame was when crap was hitting the fan when things were not going well rolling out vaccines and everything. He went on 60 minutes, and he said, I’m accountable, and then goes wrong, and you could blame me. It made me think and it made me think as I been reading some of the press coverage of this movie, and your own history, your background, like what do people not understand about military culture, culture on military bases, people who grew up going to flight school, etc.

Jay Ellis 

So I think there’s a couple things, you know, this, I’ll just say from like, just very quickly, the movie is meant to pay. It’s a love letter to aviation. It’s a love letter to like the men and women and folks who like get up every single day, and fly us and goods and also protect our country like it is a letter to like the amazing things that aviation can do and has done in our lives and how it, you know, allows us a lot of ways to keep moving forward, to have peace even, you know, the thing that I always go back to, at least in my experience of growing up on a base is like, everything was always family first. And it’s like you become a family with the folks you work with, like my dad and the folks he worked with, like, they were a family, you know, they were at barbecues, they were at birthday parties, they were over for, you know, to watch a basketball game or a fight or a football game, like they were very much like family. And he is still very close, and still talks to quite a few of the people that he has worked with, in his time in the service. I think that’s like the biggest thing. And then the other thing that I always kind of go back to is to decide that you were going to go work and sacrifice yourself potentially, and your time away from your family, to go protect this country is a very noble thing. And that’s not political, that is you deciding that like you want to give yourself and your time to the service and to make sure that like we are safe. And I think, you know, other folks that are far above my dad or anyone else for that matter who are enlisted make the decisions of what the military does. And that’s a whole different conversation. The folks who are in the military are doing the job that they’re asked to do.

Andy Slavitt 

I’m curious how you thought about, and you’ve talked about this in some of the interviews you’ve done about representation, how Cruise thought about representation, how the movie thought about reputation. You know, it’s interesting, there were some subtle things that my wife noticed about the movie, for example. The female pilot, was not a love interest to anybody. She was a female pilot. And I wondered how you felt like the movie, did the movie deal with and what was the attitude of philosophy? The military is a very diverse community.

Jay Ellis 

So again, growing up in the military, like, insanely diverse, so to see this movie and to show up and get to work with, like folks who look like me, and folks who didn’t look like me or from other cultures was amazing, because it’s how I always remember my experience living on multiple Air Force bases in my childhood, and so I was super excited about it, you know, I think it is far more representative of what our services, our Armed Forces look like, and what our world looks like. And so that made me really happy. And then, you know, going back to like Phoenix, you know, it was really, Tom, who was very clear, and Monica definitely stepped up and spoke about this too. But it really came from Tom very, very early on that Monica, and Phoenix, rather, we’re not going to be a love interest to anybody, because it would actually it could potentially, and would distract or take away from the fact that like, there are plenty of women who get up every single day, and they go fly jets, or they work on planes or whatever it is in the service and in the private sector as well. And so the focus was like on her just being an absolutely amazing badass pilot, as opposed to being somebody’s girlfriend, or love interest. And I think it really strengthened that character in a lot of ways. And I think Monica, first of all, I think she did an absolutely amazing job. But I think it’s like something that, you know, she really got to have a lot of one on one time with Tom talking about it. And they really had that focus together. And I think it’s so great.

Andy Slavitt

So is he thoughtful about all these choices about the representation about how to think about the diversity of the cast. You know, even the point and my wife definitely liked this, the fact that his love interest was his age bracket. So it felt like, as we were looking at his movie that there were just some thoughtful choices made. And I’m wondering how you experienced that it was indeed, how you experienced it?

Jay Ellis  32:03

Yeah, I will say I don’t think the success of a movie like this happens without an insane amount of thoughtfulness and detail. To be very honest. Tom was super thoughtful on a lot of this stuff, and Jerry as well. And you know, it goes from obviously years of experience and making these movies and I think also like realizing that the world is very, very different than what it might have been 30 years ago. And the way we tell stories is very different than what it was 30 years ago, and far more inclusive today than what it was 30 years ago. And I think those guys really realize that.

Andy Slavitt 

You’re making me think about what you said about the first movie, which is that everybody in the audience, if you sit in the theater, this is a shared experience type of a movie, in my opinion, everybody could look at that movie and say, I see something in it, that I feel connected to. There’s some emotional pull. And for a lot of us who’ve never served in the military, that’s hard to do. But in the second movie, is the emotional punch of Val Kilmer and his involvement. And for those of you who don’t know, Val Kilmer has throat cancer and effectively has lost his voice is that ability to act and was had a very prominent role in the first movie. Can you talk a little bit about that? Did you get any sense of what was going on there? Was that known to everybody? Was that an important part of what was going on? Or was it sort of a side thing?

Jay Ellis 

No, I think Tom really wanted Iceman to be there. I think Jerry Joe, I think it was always written that way. McHugh they always wanted an Iceman presence. Because that is such a huge relationship coming out of that film, right? Like you can always be you can be my wingman. You can be my wingman at any time or whatever that line is, is been on T shirts and hats and memes and dating profiles and everything else.

Andy Slavitt  34:03

That’s how I proposed to Lana. You know?

Jay Ellis 

Exactly, see what I’m saying? And it worked.

Andy Slavitt 

25 years.

Jay Ellis 

But you know, I think that like it was very important to them to figure that out. And you know, obviously, at the time Val was pretty sick and he had gotten much better and they were able to bring him in and I think that was like honoring, it’s really interesting cuz I think you’re honoring Iceman; you’re also honoring Val and the work that he’s done because he has a body of work that is absolutely amazing. And I think it is like a little bit of both when you watch that scene and how so much love is shown for that character. But we knew we you know, we all got to sit with Val and work and talk to him although we didn’t work with him like he showed up one day and set in the trailer with us and told stories you know, and talk to us for Yeah. I mean, they were like pulling us out of the trailer because we were like, no, no, no, no one second Val is talking, sorry, you know, and you’re just leaning in to every single thing he says, because he’s had such an amazing career. And I think that was like, such a beautiful thing for him to like, come from. For us anyway. So when he said when he sits there and tells you stories about his career, and what he expected to happen to him after Top Gun and all these things, and, and when you hear that, and his reflection of that, and for him to become full circle, it was just it was beautiful, all of it, it was amazing.

Andy Slavitt

So I guess what I really want to want to ask is, country has been through two to three years of a really weird experience. You can’t go out, you can’t go to school, you can’t go to work, you can’t see your friends, you can’t hug your grandmother, you certainly can’t sit in a movie theater. shared experiences are at a minimum, we’ve lost a million people, which is more than we’ve lost in civil war. And then all kinds of other crazy things around us. Climate change, scaring the crap out of people. The economy’s going crazy. We’ve got wars all around the world. We got justice, equality, voting politics, issues that are just stranger that we’ve seen before people are scared about the democracy. And I think you’ve solved it all in one movie. So congratulations, well done. But it’s, it’s I think, for a lot of people where I’m going with this is, I think, at their most anxious moments, if ask themselves a question, are we ever going to have a normal moment again, I’m never going to just be able to not be anxious. And I just think the experience of a movie that was from, you know, 2030 years ago, which by the way, when things were far from perfect in so many ways, but where people could re-experience of normalcy felt very interesting to me, it felt to me like for some reason, there was a combination of factors that sort of made this the movie or the moment that that’s gonna reunite the country. But that maybe could create a shared experience, where we’re Twitter aside, we can all look at it and say, there, you know, there’s something in here around whether it’s the pure joy, the experience, the connectivity, the tributes that you just mentioned, I don’t know, what do you think?

Jay Ellis 

Well, I hope so. You know, I was telling Glen Powell yesterday, who plays Hangman. I think every single person I’ve met since high school has seen this movie at this point. And what when I think about that, and kind of back out, like what my childhood was like, That is a an insanely diverse group of people. You know, a very diverse group of people, you know, I think of like, what my first two shows were like the game, which was on BT, and then insecure, on HBO. And like, you know, those shows were primarily they are for black audiences. And you know, we hope that other people come and watch it, but like, we’re telling stories for a black audience. And so, when I think about, like, the amount of people who text me, tagged me tweeted at me, whatever it is, and how diverse that group of people is, and to think that they were all in the theater together watching this movie, that to me is like, oh, that is the power of what we do. Like when you have good storytelling and you make an event out of something you do bring people together, whether people realize it or not, like you don’t, you may not even realize the person that you’re sitting next to, you know, and you have no idea what their vote, how they vote or where they’re registered and how they’re registered. But you don’t know any of that, which you know, is you’re both sitting in a theater, and you’re having this experience together, and fingers crossed, you’re walking out entertained, and smiling, and you’re happy that you spent the 14 $15 on the ticket.

Andy Slavitt 

And at least for two hours, you’re not judging each other as to whether you’re married wearing a mask or whether you’re not. You’re actually that’s a really good that’s a really good point. So did it feel like they open left the door open for another movie?

Jay Ellis 

Everybody else do you want to you want to teach you three? So here’s the thing.

Andy Slavitt 

I want to Top Gun 3: Payback.

Jay Ellis

So do, let’s call Paramount right now. Tom will have to give the blessing but let’s call Paramount, you know, it’s, it took time a long time to make this movie and he always says that a big part of it was technology, and how were you able to push the medium forward. And I think when you think about Tom’s movies, everything he’s done has always pushed storytelling forward and pushed film the filmmaking process forward in some way. And so I think, if we were going to do another Top Gun, you know, it would have to be, it wouldn’t just be in the back of FA18’s at this point, right? Like, we would have to what is the next step beyond that, that is an experience that you want to bring to audiences, because so much of what was really important to him. And really important to all of us, once we got in this was like, giving everyone the feeling of being in the back of F 18. And going hundreds of miles an hour and the tension, and the detail and the focus that you have to have to do it while all these things are coming at you nonstop. And so I think if there was ever going to be a Top Gun, pay back. Like, I definitely think like, you know, it’s about how do you push the medium forward? And how do you give the audience that experience? And then also, how are you telling a story, one of the things that like, when I take, try to take a step back from this movie, obviously, I’m biased, but like one of the things that I always realize, or I think about rather than when I take a step back, is that like, this story is very relevant for this time. And I don’t think we’re I don’t think Paramount nor Tom, Jerry McHugh, Joe, anybody wants sky dance. Like I don’t think anybody wants to do a movie for just a movie sake. I think they want it to be relevant for the time and have something to say. And I think this movie does that.

Andy Slavitt 

Well, I just want to correct you on one thing you said earlier, you said four people threw up six. When you were upside down, I threw up with my popcorn. Five by seven.

Jay Ellis 

You’re a pilot now, Andy, if that’s the case.

Andy Slavitt

Second time, I didn’t though, I mean, back after the movie. I was totally fine. It went through, you know, so I went through some training. Tell us a little bit more about you and your career as we finish up and what people can look for you next, tell them little bit about your show Insecure. And in what do you think is next for you? While we’re waiting for them to make the smart decision on Payback.

Jay Ellis  42:13

Man, I’ve had a ride. I’ve been really, really fortunate. You know, my first show was the game, which is created by Mara Brock Akil, it was a show that was on the CW for three seasons. And they got they got cancelled. And it’s really the first show that fans and social media brought back and it ended up on BT and did another five seasons. And that was an amazing experience, man, I got to go be a football player. And my cousin at the time was playing for he was a wide receiver at University Oklahoma, Jordan Smallwood, He now plays up in Canada. And so I got to just kind of imitate Jordan and like, what I thought his life was like, you know, playing professional football and learn and then, you know, I got this experience to go do Insecure on HBO, which, at its core is about this relationship between two Black girls. It’s about friendship, and also a love letter to Los Angeles. It’s about Isa and Molly and I got this opportunity to go play Lawrence Walker, who is this guy who, when we meet him is very depressed, and you don’t, I don’t think he realized that realizes that he’s depressed. He was kind of in the pandemic, he was, like, in the bubble, before he even realized he was in the bubble, because he was just sitting at home, he wouldn’t leave the house. And, you know, over the course of the series, you see him kind of I joke that, like, you know, you see him go from being a teenager to being a grown man like, and really understanding, you know, why he’s here and what he wants to be doing with his life and how to be a better person, try to be a better person every day. And that just because one day is bad, doesn’t mean that next day is gonna be and so, you know, in the meantime, I’ve gotten to do a couple movies, I went and did a little horror thriller for Sony called Escape Room that came out in 2019. Top Gun. A couple other things along the way. I’ve hosted a podcast since then. The next thing I have up is a movie for Amazon called Somebody I Used To Know directed by Dave Franco. I’m writing a book that’ll be out next April or May.

Andy Slavitt  44:10

What’s that about?

Jay Ellis 

The book is, it’s called Did Everyone Have An Imaginary Friend or just me and it’s about my childhood imaginary friend. It’s a bunch of short stories, essentially, a collection of essays about growing up an only child, Black kid in the 90s, late 80s and 90s with an imaginary friend traveling all over the place from base to base, the base. And just always experiences that I kind of went through and how ultimately, like, we all kind of lose our sense of play, like as we get older, and imagination, and you know, some of that is because the world tells you like, hey, you need to grow up. And some of that is because like, you know, you get thrown into situations or thrown into work life, whatever it is, and so you’re basically just forced to like kind of let creativity and imagination go sometimes.

Andy Slavitt 

I’ll say what you just made me think of as in order to get to where you’re trying to thought. But this idea of creative coping, like, you know, we all have, like, people who are dealing with stress. And they are relying on these tools that are, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy and medication and all these things. But man, it’s so interesting. You just made me think that when kids deal with that stuff, they create fantastic coping mechanisms.

Jay Ellis 

It’s all creative.

Andy Slavitt 

And why don’t adults do that? I mean, it’s really, I mean, it gets you through so much. And it hit me in the beginning of the pandemic.

Jay Ellis 

me in the beginning of the pandemic, like just being at home, I am a busy body, like I’m usually on a set, or like, I’m constantly working, so you know, or traveling for work, or whatever it is speaking or whatever. And so, those first couple months of the pandemic, just sitting at home, I was like, whoa, what is this, I haven’t done this. And I haven’t done this since college maybe like, if I even did it then. And so I just really got to this place of like, oh, again, growing up as an only child and bouncing around from place to place and not being able to do that with someone, right, not having a sibling to go through this new school experience with a new town and all that. Like, I created an imaginary friend to do those things with me who was like my big brother and kind of guided me through that and protected me through that, right? And we got in trouble and whatever, but it just made me go back to like, oh, there was a time where like, that is how my body or my mind dealt with like external stresses. And we all lose that and it is healthy to some degree for us to have those that creative coping like it is very healthy for you to write, to sing, to draw, whatever it may be like you can find some great like mental some peace there. And like we lose that as adults.

Andy Slavitt 

Do this final thought of spirit with me. 10 year old Jay, […] with this imaginary friend. Someone knocks on your door comes and tells you hey, when you get older you’re gonna star in a movie with Tom Cruise. does equal to Top Gun like, what? How does 10 year old Jay react to that?

Jay Ellis 

Absolutely crazy. I probably hound my dad for a week straight to take me to work and let me sit in the cockpit of a jet. And then I probably sit there. And with Mikey, my imaginary friend. We are in the air flying. I don’t know what we’re doing. But we’re just in the air flying. And having a good time. I think I probably, I definitely like multiple times talk to my dad into letting me get into a jet obviously, while I was sitting in a hangar like not, you know, engines not running, not powered up. I think if somebody would have told me after I saw Top Gun that like that’s gonna be your life one day, I would have never left that jet. They would have literally had to pry me out of it.

Andy Slavitt  48:03

Amazing. Amazing. Well, Jay, thank you for sharing all this with us. It’s such a wonderful story. And it’s so cool to see this movie, and what it means and it just must have been so great to be a part of and you just, you seem like the kind of person who everybody would say that’s the guy that something really good should happen for because you’re relatable that way, just like and I think it’s up into the country. Country needs to I don’t know, that’s kind of a sappy sentiment, but that’s how it made me feel.

Jay Ellis 

No, I’d say I’ll take it. Thank you, man. I’ll take it. I think like, it’s beautiful to hear that. So thank you. I don’t take I don’t take compliments well, Andy, but I’m gonna find a way to absorb that one. Just take it in.

Andy Slavitt 

Yeah, so you probably don’t even realize you wouldn’t be with Tom Cruise. If you don’t take compliments like, yeah, it’s a movie Tom Cruise. Like, no, no, you are. You’re a Top Gun. Pretty amazing. I wish you the best Jay, thanks a lot for being on the show.

Andy Slavitt 

Let me tell you what is ahead Friday. I have two very interesting guests coming in for the Friday conversation. Both of them were touched by gun violence one as a student at Parkland. The other is an emergency room physician. And what’s unique about these two individuals is they decided to do the same thing. Basically change their lives and participate in starting an organization that was focusing on ending gun violence for others. Very amazing personal stories. I think you’ll really enjoy this conversation, our Friday conversations if you haven’t been listening to them. You know, we get into like real depth with really interesting people on the topics that matter. So hope you’ll enjoy that. Monday, a big, big conversation with a very important guest, Larry Summers, one of the most credible economists in the world, he’s the person who 2021 predicted we would have this big inflation hit and it wouldn’t go away, probably the most important voice to listen to on what might happen next. And he talks about everything from what’s going to happen to your home prices, what’s going to happen to mortgage rates, what happens with our jobs? What’s gonna happen to the price of milk, bread and gasoline. And he’s got a very candid take on all that stuff. We’ll bring you that on Monday. More episodes that come after that, including Adam Conover, who’s got a new show out on the government. He’s a funny guy. And he’s trying to teach us about the government on Netflix. Okay, it is almost the middle of the week. It is the middle of the week. It’s almost the end of the week. Just be more positive. We’re just a couple of days from the weekend. So enjoy the rest of your week and we will talk to you on Friday.

CREDITS

Thanks for listening to IN THE BUBBLE. We’re a production of Lemonada Media. Kathryn Barnes, Jackie Harris and Kyle Shiely produced our show, and they’re great. Our mix is by Noah Smith and James Barber, and they’re great, too. Steve Nelson is the vice president of the weekly content, and he’s okay, too. And of course, the ultimate bosses, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Wittels Wachs, they executive produced the show, we love them dearly. Our theme was composed by Dan Molad and Oliver Hill, with additional music by Ivan Kuraev. You can find out more about our show on social media at @LemonadaMedia where you’ll also get the transcript of the show. And you can find me at @ASlavitt on Twitter. If you like what you heard today, why don’t you tell your friends to listen as well, and get them to write a review. Thanks so much, talk to you next time.