Tell Me What to Do

The Many Cases of COVID

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COVID has disrupted every single part of our lives, and for some, has left us anxious and confused! So many people have opinions, but who can you trust? Jaime actually tackles that exact question this week with someone you definitely can trust — In the Bubble podcast host and former Obama administration health care head Andy Slavitt. Jaime and Andy compare notes on sending kids back to school, going on trips and what to do if your friends have different ideas about vaccines than you do.

FYI: Tell Me What To Do contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.

Please note, this show is hosted and produced by a team that does not have any clinical or other mental or physical health training. If you are having a health or mental health crisis or emergency, please contact 911. For non-emergency mental health and addiction needs, try for national and local resources.

Show Notes 

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[01:07] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Hey, guys, you’re listening to Tell Me What To Do. I’m Jaime Primak Sullivan, and this is a question and answer show where you ask me what to do, and I tell you, and then sometimes I’m asking other people what to do, and thank God they tell me. COVID, boy, I feel like I’ve said that word more than I’ve said any other word in the last five months. COVID cases are on the rise in a bunch of states around the country. If you listen to my daily digital show Coffee Talk, you know how I feel about wearing a mask. If you don’t, and you just stumbled across me, let me give you an update real quick: wear the fucking mask. That’s all. The other thing is sports and school. It is all anybody on my Facebook page is talking about. “Are you letting your kids play soccer? Jaime, is Charlie going to gymnastics? What are you guys doing about basketball?” You know, I don’t know. I’m making decisions day by day, to be honest with you. I have been very honest about my anxiety about Coronavirus. I have always been a helicopter parent. I was raised by a neurotic mother and I have a lot of her neurotic tendencies. Remember, guys, I’m the mother that doesn’t let her kids go in the ocean past their knees. So I am a lunatic when it comes to Coronavirus. I just am. I don’t let the kids go anywhere public. They have to wear masks when they ride bikes on public trails. 


[02:49] I’m sure that I’m too extreme. I mean of that I have no doubt, because I’m too extreme on everything, but I don’t know how to parent any other way. I have let the kids go back on the soccer field because I had an extensive conversation with both their pediatrician and my brother-in-law, and they feel confident that nine v nine soccer outside is on the safer side of things. I don’t know what the right answers are, guys. You know, my children still need to live. But then I am honest with them, and I let them make — I don’t know, I say I let them make their own decision, but then they want to do things that I don’t let them do. So honestly, I don’t know. I don’t know what I’m doing. Day-to-day, I look at the numbers in Alabama, I get angry that they’re up so high. We’ve known about this virus since January 21st when the first case entered the United States. And here we are in July and Alabama is on the fucking “No, you’re not welcome” list for, you know, the tri-state area. It’s like, how did this happen to us? But then, like, you know how it happened, because you’re looking at the news hearing that students from Alabama are having COVID parties to try to see who gets sick first. And you go like what are young people doing? And then I think I used to pull the filters off Newports and smoke the cigarettes without a filter, so what the hell was I doing and who am I to talk? 


[04:29] I don’t know what the hell I’m doing from day to day. And the truth is, this is our reality. So for this episode of Tell Me What To Do. I am bringing on an expert, somebody other than me. The former acting administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services during the Obama administration. So no big deal or anything. And I promise this is not political, whether you liked Obama or you didn’t, whether you voted for him or her or the other him, it doesn’t matter, because Andy knows what he’s talking about. In fact, he has an amazing podcast called In the Bubble, and the entire podcast is about COVID, and how it’s impacting us in so many different ways, and you really should check it out to know more about things like sports. Will they come back? I don’t frickin’ know. Or how to convince your family members to wear a mask. So anyway, let’s get him on the line because I’m sick of my own voice. 


[05:37] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Hello, Andy. 


[05:39] Andy Slavitt: Jaime, how are you? 


[05:42] Jaime Primak Sullivan: I’m good, thank you. Thank you for making the time to talk with me, because I feel like no matter where I turn around, whether it’s professional and and how COVID is impacting entertainment, or it’s in my own home trying to get my husband to, you know, wash his hands, or dealing with my children and and explaining COVID in a way that doesn’t give them nightmares. I feel like COVID is everywhere. So I’m grateful that you took the time to talk to me. 


[06:12] Andy Slavitt: Yeah, well, I’m excited about your podcast. And yes, this is a topic that we shouldn’t be learning about from chyrons and texts and emails and rumors. It’s a good thing that people get a chance to talk through because it’s not as scary when you begin to talk about it and understand it a little bit better. 


[06:31] Jaime Primak Sullivan: So, you know, I feel like I am slightly inside baseball on COVID because my brother-in-law is head of infectious disease, malaria at Johns Hopkins. 


[06:41] Andy Slavitt: Yeah, that would make you inside. 


[06:44] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Slightly. I’m not the head of infectious disease, but he sends out weekly text messages every Saturday to kind of give us an update. But listen, I’m based in Alabama, where cases are on the rise. I actually just went home to New Jersey. And so we flip-flopped. Right. Jersey used to be a hotspot. And Alabama was like, you know, 30 cases a day. And now Alabama is on the quarantine list for New Jersey. So I have some questions for you. I was reading something the other day about how another professional athlete has tested positive for Coronavirus. And I thought, gosh, with all of the financial resources that Major League Baseball and the NFL and the NBA have, they can’t even figure out a way to bring sports back safely. So how then can we possibly open schools, which, as any parent knows, is a cesspool for snot and touching and sharing and dropping pencils and picking them up and go to the bathroom and not washing their hands? Because we are now asking teachers to not only be disciplinarians, while doing everything they can to keep themselves safe, now they have to play school nurse as well. I mean, how with limited resources do we open schools, or do we open schools?


[08:17] Andy Slavitt: That’s one of the toughest questions of all. And I think people keep looking for the answer and they have to understand the fact that there is no good answer. And it’s uncomfortable for people to be in a situation where no one knows quite what to do. We’re used to being able to ask somebody to tell us what the best answer is. We’re figuring it out. I mean, the truth of the matter is, you know, we’re no better off than we were when schools ended in the early spring. Back then, we had a shortage of PPE. We had an inability to get access to tests. We had people dying every day. We had cases growing. All those things are still true today. So you might ask, well, what’s changed? One of things that’s changed is that we have an impetus to get the economy moving again, whether that’s for political reasons or whether that’s just because people are home stuck. And, of course, you know, a lot of people, they like their kids in theory, but, you know, they have to spend all day with them, that’s quite another matter. And so everybody wants schools to start at some level. And yet no one knows quite how to do it. 


[09:21] Andy Slavitt: And, you know, if you talk to a teacher, you know, they’re quite concerned. There’s some data which will tell you that there’s ways to make it work. There’s other data which will tell you that it’s challenging. I think it’s going to have to be case by case, district by district. I think it’s going to be messy. I think people are going to be very unsatisfied. I think parents are going to be unhappy. But people have to just recognize this is a short period of time and we’re all going to have to do our best to muddle through. And there won’t be one answer and there won’t be one good answer.


[09:50] Jaime Primak Sullivan: I understand the sort of pressure that municipalities and school districts are under because we’ve never experienced something like this. And so for us, canceling school feels too real. It almost feels like, oh, my God, we really are at war. It’s like one thing to hear about the enemy. It’s another thing to see it on the news. It’s another thing to, like, hear about a friend of a friend of a friend who knows someone who’s whatever, but postponing school? That’s a draft. That feels like they’re knocking on our door. You know, that almost feels like we can’t ignore this. And I think there have been people who are still in some ways kind of in denial about this virus. And you want to stay positive and talk about all the people that have recovered because there are certainly more that have recovered than have died. But this thing is real, and we don’t yet have a vaccine. And I mean, think about lice, parents. Think about lice. 


[11:09] Jaime Primak Sullivan: How you get the message in your email. And you see that dreaded subject heading:  “Lice,” and your skin crawls and you go, “No! Not lice! Please!” COVID will make lice look like a Christmas gift. So I don’t know what the right answer is and I don’t even know if there is one. But I know that, you know, there’s an option for a lot of people to continue online learning. I mean, you’re a dad. Have you given any personal thought to that? 


[11:47] Andy Slavitt: Well, first of all, I love the way you think, because the psychology and the sociology of the virus is a whole thing unto itself. The way people process, or as you say, don’t process their fears is really powerful. And I think we have to respect it. I think we have to understand where people are coming from. My kids are 22 at 18. My 18 year old is the co-host of the In the Bubble podcast with me. And we just had Arne Duncan on, and we were talking about these very difficult and very tricky issues. And you can also overlay the topic of race and equality and equity and food. And there are so many things that cross over here that it’s a complex issue to think about. But, you know, if you think about your typical, well-to-do parent who wants everything for their kid, you know, we live for our kids because we want them to not only have everything we had, we want them to have everything we didn’t have. The idea of them missing a few months or a year of school is an affront to us in some respects, because we are kind of here as parents for them and for their future. But one of the things that I hope people kind of keep in mind is that whatever happens — whatever happens where you are with you online or there — the learning experience for your child to be alive right now is astounding. What they can learn about this country, what they can learn about themselves, what they can learn about resilience, what they can learn about helping other people, about community. It may not be mathematics. They may have to catch up in their math class at some point in their life. But when they grow up and are adults. The opportunity that they had to be with you as a parent and watch you set an example and watch you figure out the way to behave towards people, and get through this, the way they watch brave nurses and doctors and others, that’s a lesson you couldn’t give a kid in 20 years. So some of this is — 


[14:09] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Well. And let’s be honest. How many times you go out into the real world and use fractions? Or the periodic table, you know what I mean? Like how many times in your adult life, though, do you need to use reasoning skills or conversation or compassion? And I think you’re absolutely right. I mean, certainly my kids see me doing my part and they know that we take it very seriously, and they know that their uncle is a doctor and they’re aunt is a pediatrician and that they are on the front lines of this thing. And they want to go back to school, but they understand that that may not be an option for us. You know, let me say this, and this will lead into our first question. I do respect the fear of this thing. I have a very personal fear of this thing. My husband is advanced age. I think he’s 57. And he had heart surgery a few years ago. He’s in great health, but he’s not a spring chicken. But, you know, our family doesn’t work without him. So I am scared of this virus. I don’t know what the trauma of having a parent be admitted to the hospital, God forbid, being put on a ventilator, or a grandparent even. You know, I don’t know what that does to my kids. I know that missing school for five months isn’t fun, but it isn’t traumatic, right? You know, the other thing is, I think there some serious — and I said this in my opening. And I mean it sincerely. I take the masks very seriously because for me, masks are like, you know, you put on a sock to avoid a blister. You put on a condom to avoid sexually transmitted diseases or pregnancy. You know, you put on sunblock to block out the harmful rays. You put a diaper on your kids’ ass to avoid getting shit on. You know, I mean, sure, you get some blow outs — and there isn’t a parent who hasn’t had a blow out. And he goes straight up the back. But you still put the diaper on, right?


[16:19] Andy Slavitt: Yeah. You got to be careful when you take it off. 


[16:21] Jaime Primak Sullivan: You do. You do. But I don’t understand the people that they work so hard to make the argument that masks don’t help or don’t work. They have no scientific training whatsoever. Zero. But they want so badly to convince you that a mask isn’t helpful. And I go, are you the same person that won’t wear sunblock? Are you the same person that has unprotected sex? Are you the same person who lets the skin rip off the back of your heel, like what’s happening? 


[16:56] Andy Slavitt: Yeah. You might be onto something. 


[17:03] Jaime Primak Sullivan: The best part about Tell Me What To Do is people calling in and sending emails. And for me, I feel like there is so much uncertainty and so much fear around COVID because we want to do the best things to protect our families. At the same time, we need to work. We need to eat. We need to get outside and get fresh air. We need to socialize because humans are social creatures. And I’m sorry, but Zooms and FaceTimes, you know, they cut it for a while, but it’s getting to the point where we need actual human touch. So we have an email here and I want to talk to you about it. It says, “hi, Jaime. How do we navigate through what we are being told about COVID these days? So many people say the media is what’s causing fear, which I know that they are to some degree. But there should be fear as this virus is so real. I feel like everyone has lost their damn minds.” And I think what she’s saying is. How do we know who to trust when people are being touted in front of us as experts, then they’re being pulled back, then the governors are saying this thing, then the governors are saying that, the federal government saying this. Then they’re saying that. Be scared. Don’t be scared. Go to work. Don’t go to work. It’s like I feel like we’re in the weird matrix of misinformation.


[18:28] Andy Slavitt: Yeah, well, let me tell you what to do. You want to pick two to three experts that you can rely on. How do you decide who’s an expert? OK. Number one, if they don’t say “I don’t know” or “we don’t know” frequently, cross them off your list. Number two, if they don’t tell you where the data that they’re sharing is coming from and sourcing it, cross them off your list. Number three, if they don’t tell you occasionally their own perspectives and biases and opinions, cross them off your list. Because the truth is, there’s way more that we don’t know than we do know. That’s a very uncomfortable feeling. Now, when you do that, my hope would be one of those people could be your local health commissioner, because that’s the person that’s going to give you the most relevant advice. 


[19:31] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Folks, I don’t have a clue in blue who that is for Alabama.


[19:36] Andy Slavitt: And it may be a crappy one in Alabama, but my hope is that you’ve got a good one. If you don’t, there are other good people. Johns Hopkins, which I will promote because you’ve got a connection there. Very reliable. People like Tom Frieden. Scott Gottlieb, just to give you a couple names. There are different people that are good at different things. But you want to pick more than one, because you want to give a bit of a bounce. And here’s the next thing you need to do. You need to understand that because the information does change rapidly, it’s not like you can sit down with your family on March 18th and say, OK, this is what we’re doing. What you should do is you should sit down to a family roughly every two weeks and have a conversation and say, “oh, two weeks ago we thought you couldn’t play baseball. Now we’ve learned that it’s actually pretty safe to touch objects that other people have touched, like a baseball bat. And we actually are going to change that. And we’re not changing that because we’re stupid, and we’re not changing that because we were wrong before. And there’s no such thing as something that’s 100 percent risk-free.” So you’re just making decisions based upon the information you have. You want to call it a little bit cautiously. And if you’ve got somebody sick at home, you want to call it even more cautiously. But every two weeks say, OK, you know what we told you, you couldn’t play with your friend. But now we’re saying you can play with these three friends because we’ve talked to their families and we want you to still socially distance, or what have you, and get a little bit Zen about the fact that there’s things we absolutely believe to be true today, that we’ll find out later are not true. And there will be things that are absolutely critical that we wish we would know today that we don’t know yet. You’re on the ride. Just get on the ride. 


[26:58] Andy Slavitt: I have a personal question. We do have a phone call that I want to get to, but I wasn’t gonna ask you this, because it is very personal, but it’s sort of taken over our household. And I really would love if you would Tell Me What To Do. My husband is an avid golfer. It is the only thing he loves outside of this family. He’s an amazing husband. We have always operated independently, and I mean down to finances. We are two very independent, successful, hard-working kind of people. And he travels and I don’t question him, and I travel and he doesn’t question me. And he has a golf tournament in Chicago next week, and he plays in it every year, and he wants to go. And he’s assured me that he will take every precaution. He will wear masks and sanitize his hands. He will not shake hands. He will not share golf clubs. He will not socialize. He will just fly to Chicago, rent his car, drive to his hotel and spend the three days playing golf. And we struggled with this. I have never said no to Michael ever. But we have really struggled. I feel like it’s unnecessary right now. This is not a work trip or something that he’s not going to be exposed to people. I mean, we came to a — I don’t know if you want to call it a compromise or whatever, but I said to him, if you are willing to do your best to quarantine for me and the kids for five days after you return, then I will acquiesce and let it be. And it’s still a source of contention. And so I’m curious to know what your thoughts are.


[28:47] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Yeah, well, I will tell you what I would do. And then I will tell you what I think he should do. I wouldn’t probably go. And here’s why. Cause there’s always gonna be a next year. And missing one year of a tradition, while it sucks at the time, it’s so quickly forgotten and so quickly over with that as far as I’m concerned, it’s a very small sacrifice compared to sacrifices that other people are making. And I would know that I’d be running into lots of other people even in those five days. That’s the decision I would make. Now, the way I can tell your marriage works the way most good marriages work, you trust him, and it’s his independent decision. If he wants to take a risk for himself, that’s one thing. If he wants to take a risk that affects you and your kids, that’s another thing. So I would say, look, there are eight or 10 things he could do to make the trip much, much safer. One of them, if he’s flying, he’s got to be very careful in the airport. 


[29:52] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Airports are indoor breeding grounds. You just should not be sitting near people who should be wearing a mask. You should. Number two, he should be flying on a plane that is no more than 60 percent full. From Alabama to Chicago, it’s not that long of a plane ride. He should try to be in his own row. He should definitely not be sitting next to anybody. He should bring his own food, wear a mask on the flight. Third, he should call the hotel and make sure that he’s going into a room that was vacant for 24 hours before he got there. So not just a room that was just cleaned, but one that was vacant. Most hotels are doing this rotation. He shouldn’t do room service. He shouldn’t have other people coming into the room. He probably doesn’t need to have it cleaned when he’s there. Should probably just do his three days in the hotel and then when he goes out and golfs — and this is hard, because we let our guard down, but walking the course, keeping distance, outside you’re generally safe. But, you know, you want to have a beer afterwards, sit outside and socially distance. So you can do things. And I think this is what I’d say to Michael is like we should be living our lives. And we don’t have to put our lives entirely on hold. So only he can decide how important this is to him. And if this is something that he lives for outside of the family, you know, then that’s a reasonable decision to make because the most valuable thing we have is time and our friendships and our relationships. And I’m guessing he’s got these good friendships there. And then the five days back, I think is a good, safe policy on the quarantine side. 


[31:31] Jaime Primak Sullivan: OK. I am going to write down every single thing you suggested and discuss it with him. And then at the end of the day, you know, he’ll have to make his own decision. He’s a big boy. But you’re right, his decision affects us. This is not an independent decision that only affects him. So I really appreciate your input on that. And this next question, this was a call that came in. This is a question every single person can ask you. Take a listen. 


[32:04] Caller: Hi. We’ve been seeing our close friends and neighbors outdoors throughout the pandemic. But I’m a little worried about the fall because two children in that family, who are close friends with my children, haven’t historically gotten the flu shot. The daughter, who has ADHD and anxiety, is extremely afraid of needles. I’ve been pretty flexible with them having made some different decisions about risk than us because we stick to seeing them outside and the companionship for me has been super necessary lifelines. But I am worried about flu transmission in such a crazy year with kids are not vaccinated. So how do you recommend I approach this? Thanks. 


[33:13] Andy Slavitt: OK. So it sounds like what this mom is saying is we love our neighbors. They’re lifelines for us. They’ve been safe for us through the pandemic. But as we approach strep season, flu season, and we know that this family doesn’t vaccinate, are we more at risk for transmission of things in COVID season? And it sounds like what she’s saying without saying it is, if they don’t get the flu shot, most likely they won’t get the coronavirus shot if one is available. So how do we then approach this with our friends?


[33:51] Andy Slavitt: All right. So here’s what you should do. You should set a set of ground rules with your friends periodically as things change. And it won’t just be the flu shot that will be changing. Their kids, very likely, will be interacting more with other kids than back at school and other sorts of things. So, you know, it’s good to have a set of neighbors or friends or family that you can be in the bubble with. So if circumstances change and you feel a little uncomfortable, you start having that conversation. But it’s nice to have another family that you can trust in the bubble with you, that you can be each other’s lifeline. I don’t think that has to go away. I mean, it could be that you’ve got to distance more. It could be for a variety of reasons that, you know, you’ve got to shake things up just a little bit. But if you get the flu shot, if your kids get the flu shot, and they don’t get the flu shot, you should be okay from the flu. I’m not an influenza expert, but that’s what I would say. I mean, there’s one other, like, freebie here. Don’t screw up your relationship with your friends over this. 


[35:12] Jaime Primak Sullivan: No. And I will say one thing Coronavirus has done for us is it’s forced us to have uncomfortable personal-choice conversations about hygiene, about medicine, about science. Because we are now seeing the friends who make different choices than us. I’m not saying they’re wrong or you’re right or I’m wrong and they’re right, I’m just saying what Corona has done is it has taken our medical and scientific and personal hygiene practices and bubbled them to the surface. So people who used to not vaccinate their children for the flu, but never discussed it, are now more vocal about it because we’re dealing with something we’ve never seen before. So you can say to your friend — watch, I will have a mock approach with Andy and it will go like this. Andy, I have to tell you something. You guys have been truly lifesavers for us through this coronavirus experience. It has been so lovely being able to sit outside with you and the kids. I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t have you through this whole thing. I’m starting to give some thought to the fall. You know, when every sniffle, every scratchy throat panicks us into thinking, is this it? Is Corona in our house? Obviously, other things haven’t gone away. There’s the common cold, there’s strep throat, there’s the flu. And I know that you guys tend to shy away from certain medications, vaccinations, things like that. So just know that our family will be making some different decisions come, you know, fall, when it comes to how much time we’re interacting with other people. Because I have to do what’s best for us. And so I just want to put it out there. I don’t want it to feel personal.


[37:04] Andy Slavitt: I think that what’s great about what you said and how you said it is keep it light. Keep it friendly. Yeah, absolutely. You don’t want to lose a friendship over this. You just say so we’re thinking about it. I don’t know if we’re thinking about it right, either. This is just how it feels to us. And we’re constantly going to reassess. But here’s the thing that, like I sense is happening, is people are getting a little judge-y of their friends. Like they wear a mask, don’t wear a mask, whether they did this or they do that. It’s so tempting. I know it’s a place to put our frustration. But like, everyone’s trying to figure it out. And everyone’s, you know, in their own way, doing the best they can. And even if we don’t think they’re decisions that we would make for ourselves, and even if we think their decisions could end up hurting us indirectly some way, we have to recognize the right to make those decisions. And we have to say to them, just start with, hey, I get it. You know, and if you start that way, listening to them, understanding them, the conversation will go much better, I predict. 


[38:19] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Right. Keep the judgment out. Stick to facts. Make it about you, not about them. Talk to your husband about it like we all do. Don’t make it weird. So I just wanted to say thank you very much for being part of this podcast. Thank you for dedicating your time to educating and enlightening and updating people on this virus, because, you know, my generation has never lived through something like this before. And it is scary and it can be crippling at times. And, you know, for the first time ever, we are emotionally impacted mentally, physically and emotionally by the actions of our community. And so we are so exhausted emotionally because we are affected by the action or inaction of our close communities. If you don’t wear masks, you put me at risk. We have not experienced that before. So, you know, it’s nice to have somebody who’s got a handle on this because you know what? We need a little intellectual reprieve, to be honest. You know, we joke as parents like we’re taxi driver and short-order cook and we’re this and we’re that. But through COVID, we’ve been teacher and nurse and parent and therapist and security guard. I’m exhausted, Andy.


[39:47] Andy Slavitt: I’m sure you are, Jaime. Look, there’s not a lot of places you can actually, like, cut to it, get to it, hear someone talk about what’s on their minds. And I think your listeners are super lucky and I count myself among them. 


[40:03] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Thank you so much. I really appreciate you. And I look forward to the next time we can talk. And everybody, just so you know, you can find Andy’s podcast In the Bubble everywhere that the best podcasts are hosted. 


[40:25] Jaime Primak Sullivan: All right. So at the end of every episode, I try very hard to take a few pearls of wisdom, things that we can take away from the conversation. And these are the things that I am taking away. One, you’ve got to be malleable with the information as it comes in. You’ve got to learn to adjust the way you regulate yourself and the decisions you make for your family as the information comes to us. We have to rely on science to progress. If we were still hearing the same exact information we were hearing March 1st, there would be something wrong with the information we were hearing. So if they said in March that masks didn’t help, but they say they do now, trust that science is progressing and we need to progress with it. Secondly, you should be following and listening to more than one expert. And if your expert doesn’t admit that they don’t know things from time to time, if they don’t tell you voluntarily where they’re getting their research and information from, and if they don’t give you their opinion every once in a while, don’t follow them. And lastly, be honest about how you feel when you’re afraid, and what you are concerned about when talking to friends and setting boundaries for your own family. It is OK to admit to your friends that you respect the choices they are making for their family, but you need to make other decisions for yours in order to stay mentally healthy. Do not be socially pressured to do things that you are not yet comfortable or ready to do with your family because your neighbors are doing them. 


[42:10] Jaime Primak Sullivan: It is OK for you to say, “I love that so-and-so is doing sleepovers, but I am not there yet.” And if you ever need a fall guy, feel free to use me. I am not doing sleepovers yet. So say, you know what guys? Jaime from Coffee Talk and Tell Me What To Do, she is not doing sleepovers, so neither are we. As always, guys, this show does not work without you. Please leave us a voicemail. As always, guys. I appreciate so much you listening to Tell Me What To Do. 


[43:10] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Tell Me What To Do is a production of Lemonada Media. The show is produced by Kryssy Pease, and associate produced by Claire Jones. It’s edited by Ivan Kuraev. Music is by Dan Molad. Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jaime Primak Sullivan are executive producers. Rate and review us, and follow us @LemonadaMedia on all your favorite social platforms. Of course, you can follow me at Jaime Primak Sullivan on Facebook or at Jaime P. Sullivan on Instagram. If you have any questions for me that you want me to answer on the show, give me a call at 833-453-6662, or email me at

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