Subscribe to Lemonada Premium for Bonus Content

Description

In this episode, Kiki, Mohanad, and Hoja take a deep dive into fitness expert Jillian Michaels’ fatphobic past – from growing up as an overweight child, to becoming a trainer on The Biggest Loser, to her recent comments about Lizzo. They look at the legacy of the show, recap some of Hollywood’s worst fatphobic TV shows and movies (yes – that includes Shallow Hal), and analyze Jillian’s not-so-apologetic apology. Plus, Kiki talks about her experience at The Biggest Loser Hotel, and Hoja reveals which reality competition show she was once on.

Please note, I’m Sorry contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.

You can find out more about our show @lemonadamedia on all social platforms, or follow us on Instagram @imsorry_podcast.

Need help saying sorry? Got any public apology fodder? Email us at imsorry@lemonadamedia.com or send us a DM on Instagram.

Joining Lemonada Premium is a great way to support our show and get bonus content. Subscribe today at bit.ly/lemonadapremium.

Click this link for a list of current sponsors and discount codes for this show and all Lemonada shows: https://lemonadamedia.com/sponsors/

For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Mohanad Elshieky, Hoja Lopez, Kiki Monique

Kiki Monique  00:08

I’m Kiki Monique. And this is I’M SORRY, a podcast about apologies. And this week I realized I have no idea how to change a flat tire and I want to change that because I feel really insecure about that.

Hoja Lopez 

I’m Hoja Lopez and […] tiny desk came out. And I am obsessed with it. So everybody has to go run and listen.

Mohanad Elshieky 

And this is Mohanad Elshieky famously lives in Brooklyn and never ran a marathon. And I’m saying that because a friend asked me this week if I want to train for one, because he wants to do it. And let me say, we’re not friends anymore.

Kiki Monique 

Yeah, either. Anyone who wants me to have my toenails fall out from running? Absolutely not a friend.

Hoja Lopez 

How dare you?

Mohanad Elshieky 

It’s just like, why would anyone do it? You know, like, why would I want to run with a group of people for? I don’t know, 15 hours? I think that’s how long marathons are?

Hoja Lopez 

15 hours?

Mohanad Elshieky 

No idea.

Kiki Monique 

The way we ride. Yeah.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Anyway, I guess we can since we’re talking about marathons, we can jump in into the thing that we were going to talk about today.

Kiki Monique

Yeah, I mean, it actually kind of, you know, great segue, cuz like, I wanted to talk about something that actually had been bugging me for a really, really long time. And like, I recently was triggered by it. And like, when I get triggered by something, I just like, it’s like a mosquito bite, right? Like, I just kind of go after it until I can get at it and what I want and that each I need to scratch today is Jillian Michaels, a personal trainer, self-described health expert. And I think everyone remembers her essentially from the biggest loser right? Like she was the overzealous team leader who was like so hell bent on her team losing the most weight that she actually wants broke the rules, giving them caffeine pills.

Hoja Lopez  02:01

While she’s gay, so she’s perfect in my eyes. Let’s start off with that. That’s all I need to make a friend. Are you homosexual? Let’s go. At least that’s what I was when I came out. Initially, I went to like some kind of Dungeons and Dragons gays meeting and I was like, okay, this is it. These are all the gays. Oh, there’s gay everything. There’s gay paragliding, gay iPhone repair. There’s a gay everything. But yeah, because Jillian Michaels is gay. I’m cool with her. Whatever you guys say. I don’t even, it doesn’t even faze me.

Mohanad Elshieky 

I guess this is our episode then.

Kiki Monique 

We’re just gonna, we’re gonna trash. And you’re going to, you’re gonna stick up for her perfect. Well, you know, she recently and I say recently, like, within the last year, she was called out for fat shaming Lizzo. And, to this day, like she’s never really apologized for it, and actually continues to really just double down on her initial comments. What I hope is that she hears this one day, because I actually don’t think that she’s going to apologize, I don’t think she’s going to change her mind about what she said. But my hope is that maybe somehow she will listen to this show. And hear my point of view, hear your point of view. And just knowing that I think I’ll have some peace in the situation. And I can finally let it go. There’s a folder in my phone called Jillian Michaels Lizzo, because I’ve just been collecting thoughts for a while.

Mohanad Elshieky 

You’re ready, this episode is just was there waiting for you this whole time?

Hoja Lopez 

Yeah, I definitely like it’s so strange, because I don’t have really any affiliation with like Jillian Michaels. And since I’ve like, seen her out and about, you know, but I, like my interpretation of her was like, oh, she’s one more of the voices that have like a range of thoughts and ideas on what fat shaming is and what fat shaming is not. So I’m really interested to hear what you think. And I definitely want to talk more about it. Because for me, like my interpretation of it is like, half-baked ideas that everybody’s just sort of repeating out there. And I wonder if her affiliation, like Biggest Loser, and just like her whole persona, is what actually bothers me, you know what I mean?

Kiki Monique  04:28

Yeah. And sort of, like, you know, I feel like, you know, as we get into it, the more I sort of read about it and learn about her. I don’t necessarily know if she thinks fat shaming exists. And I think that’s sort of my bigger issue. You know, like going back to, you know, what you said, Hoja, and it’s sort of become like your signature line. We’re living in this mesozoic era of treating people kindly, right? We’re all learning these different isms. These different OBS and like, it seems like fat shaming is really sort of the like last acceptable form of discrimination. I don’t think that people look at it as a bias in the way they look at all of these other isms. And that’s sort of my overarching issue with this whole story.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Absolutely. So what was it that she said about Lizzo?

Kiki Monique 

Well, you know, so this all started in about January of 2020. So she was doing a bunch of interviews, it seems that she was coming out, she was launching a new fitness app, I think it’s called like my Jillian Michaels fitness app. So she was on like a press tour. She was doing like, I think women’s health interview, she went on, like Wendy Williams. And she was really sort of repeating a lot of the same things in each of these interviews. It really sort of focused on how body positivity had become such an almost like a political correctness thing. That we had swung this pendulum so far to the left, or whichever way swung it was some way. that now we were no longer we were just looking at celebrating fat bodies, and that we weren’t looking at the ramifications of obesity anymore, because it was too politically incorrect to say like, hey, being fat leads to all these issues. And so that’s really sort of like the talking point. She kept reiterating. And a lot of these interviews.

Mohanad Elshieky  06:33

Yeah, and I because I remember, like, even the interviewer, like, didn’t really like specifically ask her anything, she all she said was something like, you know, like, someone like Lizzo, who is presenting her way in a way that we haven’t seen before, and made it okay to love yourself and love your body and all of that, and we should celebrate that. And then she jumped in. And she was like, no, no, no, no, I think she’s a great singer. We should celebrate her talent. Why are we celebrating her weight and her body? And I was like, No one asked you to do anything. Giuliana, you just seemed to have an issue with people like fat in general. And now she just took it on Lizzo. Yeah, it

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah, it seems like there’s kind of like a pattern of like snatching people out of nowhere in interviews, specifically make your point. And so that’s for me is her fatal mistake number one is, you don’t call out a specific person about this. If you have an issue with a grander problem, like choosing Lizzo is a low blow in the sense that you’re like, oh, you’ve brought somebody whose actual name and their actual feelings into a larger conversation that you want to have. So to me, that’s the first mistake.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah. Which people love doing, by the way, like literally Lizzo is just like, very chill. And she’d like in the background, just doing her work, just being herself. And every now and then someone comes out of nowhere. And it was like, yeah, Lizzo should lose weight. And like, who are you? Like, what did she do? Like she didn’t she didn’t even start shit. She was just there at her home just chilling, just having fun. And someone’s like, no, this is what I want to bring to the table today.

Hoja Lopez  08:15

Yeah, it happened a lot. When people who were fat were basically given priority for the COVID vaccine. I felt like I was hearing so many things at that point. Because it felt like people were like, well, they did it to themselves. So why would we even like put them up there Or prioritize them? You know what I mean? So Okay, I want to say a thank you, I’m sorry, which is basically now to the medical community for like, for the first time during COVID, taking care of like the well-being of fat people without a three-hour lecture on how I could lose weight. And if I like substituted every meal that I have for like a four-ounce mocha chobani. You know what I mean? Like, I’m like, thank you, medical community, I didn’t think it was coming. You surprised me. And I do realize it’s like for Jillian, and also I think the medical, it’s not entirely like, their fault. Like for me, it’s like after a lifetime of kind of being treated kind of worse For my weight. It was nice to get a perk during COVID, you know? and sometimes when I hear somebody like Jillian Talk, I’m like, you’re in the past, you’re not in the next stage of the conversation that we’re having about weight. And it may be that we’re not totally right, either. Like it may be that we need to further and have more information, but you are stuck in Biggest Loser era on talking about weight. And so we’re trying to bring this woman along.

Mohanad Elshieky 

I think that what Yes, a lot of it also feels like projection like cuz she talks about herself being fat as a child and like losing weight and all of that. It just seems like this, this whole anger you have just still unresolved issues that you have about like how you feel about you like your own body and self, but you’re projecting it on other people, go to therapy or somebody will talk to someone, like leave people alone, I guess.

Kiki Monique  10:04

Yeah, even though you know, and we’ll talk about the later sort of like doubling down she did you know, she really tried to walk back of the lizard part of it and say, you know, I shouldn’t have pulled Liz’s name into it and should have just been talking about people. But regardless, she did. And I think you know, Lizzo was top of my way because it was brought up in the interview, but B because Lizzo breaks, Jillian’s rules, you know, like I was looking at their followings you know, Jillian Michael right now has 1.4 million followers on IG, 9000 in TikTok, Lizzo has 11.5 million followers in IG, and 18.5 million on TikTok. And I think you know, Lizzo really goes against the core of what Jillian has built her career, her platform, but yet is wildly more popular than Jillian. And I don’t think it computes, like why? I did all the right things and this person who I think should be this certain way, is bigger than me. I think that sort of like weighs into it, too.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Absolutely. Did you guys watch the Biggest Loser?

Kiki Monique 

I mean, I watched maybe the first season. But like I knew about it, I knew about it so well that I actually went to the biggest loser resort because you know, as all franchises do, like you know, all brands do, they turn themselves into these wellness resorts. And I checked myself in for a month.

Hoja Lopez 

So it was like grown up fat camp?

Kiki Monique 

It was grown up fat camp. Yes, it was.

Hoja Lopez 

Oh my God. Okay, what was it like? Tell me everything,

Kiki Monique

It was nothing like the show. But like the show. So you know, I wasn’t getting yelled at in my face. You know, screamed at, any of those sorts of like, what felt like abusive on the show, like when I watched it, it wasn’t like that at all. Everyone was so kind and so nice. I met a lot of cool people. But how it is like the show is that like, it’s like going on vacation, because nothing is real. You have a chef who is cooking you every single meal, you are waking up at 5AM. And you’re pretty much working out all day long, mixed in with like, I don’t know, a couple nutrition classes in between, you know, and then you have your obviously your food breaks. But like from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep, you’re pretty much working out. And you know, I was trying to work remotely. I you know, I had a corporate job at that time. And they let me go. And I didn’t get any work done. Because you just are spending this is work. You’re spending time working out? And did I learn a lot of things? Absolutely. Did I feel better afterwards? Absolutely.

Kiki Monique  12:53

Did I even take some of it with me when I got home? Absolutely. But you know what also was at home when I got home? The problems that existed that I hadn’t because you know, what wasn’t happening was like probably therapy that I needed. You know? Yeah, we did some fireside chats. You know, there was there were definitely tears shed in front of people I didn’t know which is not my steez but it happened. And you talk about these things around people who have shared interest but at the end of the day, like it requires a longer-term thing for as long as it took me to put on this wait the years and years it took me up on this wait for whatever reason, that’s probably how long I need to unpack like the reasons for you know why that happened.

Hoja Lopez 

I just announced right now was on Season Two of The Voice and the only reason that I’m bringing this up is because when I got eliminated from the voice, I went into a room with a therapist who basically was like I guess making sure that everything was okay that I wasn’t like super upset. It was almost like a counselor right that they provide you and in that counseling session where he’s helping you try to get over the grief of being eliminated for the voice. He said you know; I work for Biggest Loser you should consider doing the Biggest Loser.

Kiki Monique  14:29

Wait, what? I didn’t ask for that.

Hoja Lopez 

I didn’t ask for that. But the same thing like basically like was like hey, you should audition or go in for it. Just impromptu just told me that while I was in this interview with him so he’s like a works as a therapist on the Biggest Loser basically.

Mohanad Elshieky 

I’d say that person is definitely the Biggest Loser for just bringing it out to you is it’s just so stupid.

Hoja Lopez 

I know, and a full-blown therapist to I just think it’s like, that’s how you know that like, we all accept something as true. Like we as a society accept reality in some ways. And I think up until this point, we have accepted the ideas that we’ve had about dieting and being fat. And Jillian is definitely like a person who, because she’s built her life around that she’s gotten to the point where it is very difficult for her to move on from that idea. And I think that’s kind of right, where we’re catching her, she’s digging her heels in.

Mohanad Elshieky 

but you think like someone who worked like in the biggest loser franchise for like, so many years, you learn something, because like, you read about the show, and like, what happens after the show, or like, what happens behind the scenes with the people and everything. And it’s devastating, like, you’re not making anyone’s life better, you’re like, literally ruining people’s lives. Because most of everyone who gets on the biggest loser, like, eventually gains that weight back.

Kiki Monique  16:05

I think that she felt superior in this situation, because, you know, she’s talked about how when she was a kid, she was overweight, you know, five foot tall, 175 pounds. And she, she looks at it as that she has this 360 view, as somebody who has been on both sides of it and understands it. I’ve also been on both sides of it, I too, have been a thinner person. And I’ve been larger than I am now I’ve been through the whole thing. And let me tell you, the trauma that led me to being you know, some of the reason that I gained some of the weight, it existed when I was thin, too, you know, like, that was really sort of at the core of it. It didn’t, you know, like, being thinner didn’t make me healthier, per se, because I would say that my mental health maybe wasn’t there. And that’s not 360 health.

Hoja Lopez 

Yeah, you know what it seems like? It seems like she based on what you’re saying. A, thinks fatness is a personal choice, that it’s something that you can change, but it’s a personal choice. And then it’s I’m like, okay, I get it. You read Fountainhead when you were 13. And then you’re like convinced that humans make rational choices like free of any systemic forces of anything that happens to them. And like, that’s great for you. But that’s actually not how life works. Like, there are so many things at play, I would even like venture to say that like the way that America is built. And the way that the system is built, is actually there to make you fat, your body is there to keep you fat, like there’s all these forces at play. And then I think another myth, or kind of like what she’s saying in some ways that, like you could diet, fat people could diet and change if they wanted to. But they’re lazy, you know what I mean?

Hoja Lopez 

So there’s a part of it that is like a moral failing on the part of Lizzo. And I think Jillian is trying to say that, trying to say like, hey, like we shouldn’t glorify what I consider to be a moral failing, we should glorify people being healthy and people making good choices for themselves. But again, it’s like study after study shows that so many dieters, like gained back most of the weight. And to me, it’s like, why don’t when faced with that information. When faced with a, you know, almost like, I don’t know how many billions of dollars the diet industry actually makes. But like, when faced with the fact that it doesn’t work? How do you then continue to look at somebody like Lizzo and say, this person is not somebody that we should like, admire for their body?

Mohanad Elshieky  18:36

Absolutely, yeah.

Hoja Lopez 

What are you saying?

Mohanad Elshieky

Also, it’s crazy, because like, on the other side of it, you’re saying that people who are thin chose to be thin. And they are all healthy. Which is not true. How many like thin people you know, who are just literally never work out and eat as much as they want. It’s just their bodies are just built that way.

Kiki Monique 

If I’m not mistaken. Her trainer, the other trainer on the show, Bob, I mean, he had a heart attack at some point. I mean, he was one of the trainers on the show. So we don’t know what conditions led to that. And it’s none of our business what it was, but he wasn’t overweight. You know, the statement that really called her out was this like BuzzFeed interview, where she talked about like, why aren’t we celebrating her music? You know, it’s not going to be awesome. If she gets diabetes. She keeps conflating weight. With health. She keeps assuming that just because you’re overweight, she assumes immediately diabetes. And that is not the reality. You’re not her doctor. She’s never asked you. She’s never shown you her medical information. And for you to make those assumptions is what is making this bias so hard, because everyone assumes that overweight people are killing the health care system, because they’re just all unhealthy and it’s just not true.

Mohanad Elshieky

Also, has she ever been to a Lizzo concert?

Hoja Lopez 

I have and it is an incredible mind-blowing experience.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Amazing. Yeah. And you know, like, I don’t know how long it was the one that you went to, but like, mine was like maybe like an hour and a half. And they were just going at it on stage the whole time. And I’m like, there is no way I can do that.

Kiki Monique  20:16

It’s like flute playing, dancing. It’s all of these things that require so much cardio. I mean, I don’t even think I’ve ever had that good of cardio in my life, even at my healthiest.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Exactly. So for me to be like to look at Lizzo and be like, yeah, I am healthier. No, I am not. I literally just say that the beginning of this, I don’t want to work out for more than 20 minutes. I hate it.

Hoja Lopez 

Really, I think, to me more is like, are we going back to the idea of like, does shame work? You know, yeah, and his shame effective in making people change and in, like, getting people to do the things that you want them to do. And I think the Biggest Loser to an extent really was that it’s like, we’re not only going to use shame, we’re going to use like this TV platform and weigh ins and like, all these different things that ultimately are like treating these people, as if like, the statistic overall applies to everyone unilaterally when it just doesn’t.

Mohanad Elshieky

Also, I can’t imagine also being obsessed with what other people choose to do with their bodies as just like, why do you care and just, like, take care of you and just look the way you want to look? And that’s that, like, why? Why does it bother you what someone’s eat or workout? Or like, whatever, it just seems like too much work for someone to do.

Kiki Monique

Yeah. And if you are trying, like, if you are this health expert, like you say, I expect you to be reading up and constantly, like at the forefront of health of all topics related to health. And, you know, I don’t really know what’s in her fitness app. But I would venture to say that it probably still is linked to BMI, which I you know, I have a huge problem with BMI. It was created by a Belgian mathematician named Adolphe Quetelet in 1832. Okay, 1832. Yeah. And this scale was created using data from predominantly European men to measure weight in different populations. European men is how I’m now being measured against in 2021.

Mohanad Elshieky  22:19

Because they were like, that is the norm. And everyone should be like that. And it’s just like, 100 years after that, like the Medical Society was just like, no, that makes sense to us. Yeah, let’s just keep using it. Just keep going. Even if it doesn’t make sense. And because I think the reason it’s being used until now is a way for like insurance companies to make more money out of you. Because you’d be like, well, your BMI is high. So I mean, your I don’t know.

Kiki Monique 

Like, your insurance. Yeah, your insurance rates will be higher, all of these days.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah, we don’t care that it doesn’t make sense.

Hoja Lopez 

You know what it kind of reminds me of is the same idea of like, focusing on fat is very easy. It’s like easy to focus on a symptom of something and not like a bigger, more complicated answer, which is something that we see again, and again, not just with people that work, you know, quote, canceling or people that we’re judging, it is judgment, like judgment is easy when you’re focusing on a very simple answer. But when you’re also thinking about the fact that like fat people get substandard health care, that there’s a level of almost like disgust that isn’t necessarily applied to like other isms, or phobias. And I think that it plays a role in how Jillian reacts to, like, you know, you know, somebody like Lizzo, whether it’s just like, I was reading up on this before the podcast, and it’s like, I found one study where one in five physicians like admit to feeling disgust when treating obese patients. And those are like, basically the ones that were just willing to admit it. So for me, it’s like, if you feel disgust for your patient, like how you’re going to treat that patient properly, if you feel disgust for the person that you’re helping, in any sort of like, arena, or if you feel superior to them. I don’t think you’re a good, like a good person to help that person actually get healthy and happy. You know?

Kiki Monique  24:13

Yeah, I had a doctor in New York. And literally every time I would go to see him, like, my numbers would be normal, like nothing was off. But he would constantly be like, do you want me to refer you to a bariatric doctor for surgery? And I’d be like, no, finally, one day I said, Yes. Because I was like, you’re not like letting this go. And I went there considered it. And then I was like, What am I doing? I don’t want to be under the knife for this. Like, my numbers are fine.

Hoja Lopez 

Yeah. I don’t really know where like all of this fully comes from like, I definitely understand that there is a link between obesity and certain health conditions, but it is not, again, a sweeping reality. And so it’s like why can’t you see the person that In front of you, and then make decisions based on what you’re actually looking at.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah. I mean, obviously, it’s, you know, it’s years and years and years of just like media and Hollywood and all of that just being like, you know, like, I can’t remember the name of the movie.

Hoja Lopez 

Is it Shallow Hal?

Mohanad Elshieky 

Exactly, yeah. The idea of the whole movie was just like, can you believe it? This person is dating a fat person. And it’s because he doesn’t know it. And then he falls in love with that person regardless like of how they look. And like back then everyone was just like, yeah, that’s, that’s a fantastic idea for a movie. I’ve seen.

Kiki Monique 

A Netflix show I just watched not too long ago. I mean, it was like, just this past year about this girl who was like overweight and like she only got happy, like, once she got skinny, and I was like, wow, we’re still doing this.

Hoja Lopez  26:00

I want to tell you, growing up in Venezuela, my favorite telenovela growing up, was called Mi Gorda Bella and that means my beautiful fat girl. And you guys, like to the tee, the storyline is she’s fat. And so she’s like, bullied and nobody cares about her. And like the main guys, like really sweet to her because they’re friends. But he’s got a girlfriend or whatever. And then she like goes away, and we find out that she’s rich, and she has like these surgeries and gets hot, and then comes back. Nobody recognizes her. And then that guy falls in love with her. And at that point in my life, I was like, man, this is a beautiful love story. And only until you get ordered you realize you’re like, Oh my god, I’m being fed insanity. Like, this is why I’m being fed insanity. Just it’s so ubiquitous in pop culture, that like part of like, how we all have this agreement, you know, and again, it’s like shaming people for being fat makes people fatter. Hello, how have we not learned this?

Kiki Monique 

I also just say like I had to, you know, I have to get a driver’s license in California now. And they’re still asking for weight. And I hadn’t been I mean, New York, I’ve never […] my weight and that was the first time and I was still like, I still lied, y’all. I still lied.

Hoja Lopez 

Yeah, I came up with a random number. I was like, y’all don’t deserve.

Kiki Monique 

You don’t get this part of me, who are you California?

Kiki Monique 

So okay, so after this backlash after Jillian gets all of this backlash for these Lizzo comments she does come out with which I think Mohaned is your favorite maybe your favorite version of apology in the Notes app posted to Twitter and IG and I won’t say it’s an apology, but what she says is, as I’ve stated repeatedly, we are all beautiful, worthy and equally deserving. I also feel strongly that we love ourselves enough to acknowledge there are serious health consequences that come with obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancer to name only a few. I would never wish these for anyone and I would hope we would prioritize our health because we love ourselves and our bodies.

Mohanad Elshieky  28:27

Yeah, what a statement to started with everyone should be loved. We love everyone amazing. Except, I have an exception I need to make here. I know I said everyone, but let me double down because this is not an apology. I know it’s in the Notes app. But I like a twist.

Hoja Lopez 

I love your Jillian Michaels voice. She’s like an aristocracy like an American aristocrat, basically.

Mohanad Elshieky

That’s what she sounds to me. She’s like don’t let them eat cake.

Hoja Lopez 

You know, it feels to me like in that, people continue to like they fail to address how complicated it is. Like they continue to really miss the mark.

Kiki Monique 

And like I take like really special offense to this because you know when I was in New York, I had this trainer […] who is like the most amazing trainer and she actually trains a lot of like the plus size celebrities. And I’ve never met anyone, I mean not even just a plus size person, anyone with like the exercise, attitude she has, like she is up every day like I would meet her at like 5AM, I’m sure I know she was up before that. And every day, weightlifting working out and you know, I would follow her journey on it. You know, once I left and it was she is so healthy, but she’s dealing with PCOS when she talks about on our ID which is why I feel comfortable saying I wouldn’t obviously relay her, you know, but she talks about this and how it was, she hasn’t been able to take off the weight no matter what she does, even though she is one of the most active people I know.

Kiki Monique  30:12

And so when I hear people like Jillian, again, you know, putting weight and health in the same category, it pisses me off, because I was like, I actually think Marie could kick your ass Jillian, like she is one of the strongest women I know. And my other problem with Jillian is that she keeps saying, we’re celebrating obesity, every statement she makes is about, we shouldn’t be celebrating obesity. And I want to say to Jillian, when I post a picture of myself online that I feel great about whether it’s I’m in a bathing suit, or I’m in a gown, or whatever I’m in, I’m not celebrating obesity. I’m doing exactly what you wrote in your little notes, not an apology. And I am happy that I’m a beautiful person. And I am sharing that, simply that, but immediately, once you put your body out there, it just becomes oh, why are you celebrating obesity? I’m not you’re pointing out the obesity. I happen to have a lime green bathing suit that looks fire. And I want to show it off. That’s all I’m doing.

Hoja Lopez 

Yeah, it is it’s like conflating the two things together. And like, it is not celebrating obesity is like we have to be able to love ourselves the way that we are. It doesn’t mean that we don’t want to improve or change or that you don’t know where people are in that process. You have no idea. And it is true that it is very, very annoying and offensive when somebody looks at you enjoying yourself having a good time. loving yourself and assuming that because you’re even able to love yourself being fat, that it’s not acceptable.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah. Because clearly like, I mean, like I said before, it’s just it’s it has to do with them not loving themselves. I feel like a lot of it, you know, stems out of jealousy? Because like, how dare you love yourself, when I’m over here, just hate everything about me. So you should hate yourself? Because that would make me feel better.

Hoja Lopez  32:08

yeah. Again, I think it’s that thing of like, they feel like if you feel bad, or if you don’t celebrate yourself, or if you, you know, don’t celebrate obesity, then that is the way that you’re going to change and move into being thin. And so again, it’s sort of a cyclical problem, where I mean, you know, what would actually help fat people I think is if you make it very easy for them to work out and to exercise and to be outside and to be active because […] is a BMI for people who are active, it doesn’t actually show you that you’re going to be healthier not it’s actually pretty comparable for people who have different BMI’s but the same level of activity in terms of health. So for me, it’s like, make it very easy and happy for people to go to the gym, instead of God forbid, going to the gym and getting made fun of, getting gawked at getting like, bullied because you’re they’re doing something, which is what I feel happens really often too, you know?

Kiki Monique 

Yeah, I mean, when I, you know, when I really wanted to do this as like a call out on IG, you know, I really wanted to almost put a call to action to Jillian, and ask her, you know, instead of just making these statements about how obesity is, you know, death, it’s all of these terrible health issues, like, what are you doing with your platform to actually improve the situation? You know, like, we know, we’ve talked about, like food deserts in like urban areas where, you know, there’s not access to healthy food and a lot of like low-income neighborhoods, you know, in a lot of like, urban school settings, like a lot of the fitness, especially for Black Girls, Black women, it stops at around like 10, between 10 and 13. Because maybe they don’t have outside areas to like, have sports and that sort of thing. And so a lot of these systemic issues that are creating this, I won’t say problem, but it is creating this epidemic, right? That she’s talking about, what are you doing to end that problem, rather than just saying like, hey, guys, like, just fix it? You know, you don’t have to be like that.

Mohanad Elshieky  34:12

She’s making money. She’s fixing her situation financially by just going around and just putting that app to everyone. And like you said, I mean, it’s just, it is expensive to eat healthy or like whatever, how everyone advised you to eat. I’m just like, it’s way cheaper to just get whatever you want, whatever you’re comfortable with eating and just call it a day versus you know, once you go on a diet, even your bank account goes on a diet as well. I’m like, okay, cool. I’m definitely losing money. That’s one thing I’m losing.

Kiki Monique 

Lizzo never addressed Jillian directly, which I really do appreciate she was kind of I’m not even gonna give this chick clout, she address it in sort of this other way of, you know, posting on her TikTok showing all of the stuff she does in a week, you know, she’s vegan, she’s talked about being vegan for a while. And she always, you know, shows her working out and all of these things. And while we all love it, and we’re like, yes, show her show her. It’s also like, again, why do we always have to explain ourselves for like, why we are the way we are, or why we’re healthy or how we’re healthy and showing it. I also really, and even though I know people do it from a really good place, the one comment and Lizzo even said it too, the comment of like, you’re so brave, like if I’m wearing like a cut off shirt or a bathing suit, and I’m posting online, you are so brave.

Kiki Monique 

And I wish I was as brave as you and like that’s why I loved you know, Lizzo’s comment of like, this isn’t, you know, the body positivity, how it started, like, I understand I appreciate it. What I’m trying to get to is body normative. I just want to this to just be a normal thing. And not it constantly being picked apart. Like I am standing up for all big Black women and I feel a certain the same way. But in a way you have to become that because when people like Jillian say the things you do, if you have a voice, well fuck it, you’re gonna say something, right? Because you can’t not say something. And so anyways, that’s like, that’s one of the most frustrating parts.

Hoja Lopez  36:23

It’s also so tied into like, you know, feminism and sexism and the same, like goat is always like fat women, the ones that get called out versus like fat men, or, like nobody’s talking to John Goodman being like, motherfucker, why you look so fat in that Great Lebowski movie. Like they’re all like, yo, that’s a perfect fit for that movie. Like, we’re not calling out man. We are calling out women.

Kiki Monique 

I like totally, I like coined this term A while back. And I even wrote a blog about it about like, I’ve always been in what I call interracial relationships. Because I’ve always dated guys who were thinner than me. It’s just like what’s happened? And you know, it is interesting, because like, also, like, if we go out together, I don’t know how often people like a woman will be like, wanting to hit on my boyfriend in front of me because she assumes I’m the roommate, because I couldn’t possibly have a thin boyfriend. How could I?

Hoja Lopez 

Yeah, that’s just, there is something about specifically women being fat that I think is ultimately like the most offensive to people. I think the size thing of like, women are supposed to be like these frail, weak things that like big tall men are gonna take care of and when you’re fat, you’re like, I could sit on you and kill you, honey, like that paradigm does no longer exists. And so we’re really breaking boundaries here. But yeah, let’s go sit on some people Kiki, like terrorize a small city.

Kiki Monique 

Like, I’m down, I’m totally down.

Hoja Lopez 

For our very favorite segment, sorry, not sorry. This week, I would like to apologize to my girlfriend and my partner, for honestly not being good at doing dishes. And it is a permanent problem in our relationship. And I want to announce in front of the whole world, that I should be better at it. And it’s actually pretty earnest.

Kiki Monique  38:19

Do you not have a dishwasher?

Hoja Lopez 

Oh, we do, but incapable of loading it.

Mohanad Elshieky 

I was gonna take your side at first, but now that you have a dishwasher, I think you know, I hope you accept your apology. I think you should make it more sincere.

Kiki Monique 

Yeah, all you got to do is rinse and load.

Hoja Lopez 

I know. But it’s like, I just don’t like it. And so I forget it. Have you guys heard of that?

Mohanad Elshieky 

Pretend to forget stuff? Absolutely. Yeah, I do it all the time.

Hoja Lopez 

But I am good at cleaning the rest of the house. It’s just I don’t like doing dishes or like laundry or taking out the trash.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Okay, so what do you say cleaning the rest of the house? What do you do? What’s happening?

Hoja Lopez 

Oh my god. You know what? I’m just following the lead of men everywhere who are like, I’m sorry, this is just not my kind of work. You know what I mean? I just don’t do women’s work. That’s, you know what I mean? Like, I can’t? What about you guys?

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah, well, this week, I am demanding an apology from my building, the one I live in. Because this week, I got stuck in the elevator. It literally stopped like one floor in and it just, like shook like really hard and then stopped. And you know, I didn’t go to elevator school. But I was like, pretty sure that’s a bad sign. I mean, one thing I got to do is like use that call button in the elevator for the first time, which was very nice, because I always wondered what it did. Like who answers on the other side? Oh, yeah. Who does? Ah, no idea. Honestly. It was just someone who was just like, I pressed on it and it was like, hey, I’m stuck in the elevator and then the person on the other side was like, do you need help? Yeah, man. That’s why I clicked the please help me thing. Of course I need help. What do you think? Like, am I gonna jump up and down until it starts moving? And then they were like, how long have you been there? What if I just replied and said two days? Like, how long do you think I was gonna wait until I call for help? And then they took their time and then they sent an email to everyone who just like, hey, the elevator doesn’t work. And it’s like, yeah, cool. Well, I wish I had a time machine to..

Kiki Monique 

You got the email while you were in the elevator?

Hoja Lopez 

He’s like, you know what, let me send this email first and then let me help this guy get out of this elevator. That’s wild.

Kiki Monique 

Well, this week, I want to actually apologize. I know that I said I would never properly apologize. I would always be asking for apologies, but I am going to apologize to anybody who’s probably texted or DM or emailed me in the last like, few months. Like I currently have over 300,000 unread emails and 250 unread text messages. And I don’t even want to get into my DMs and I just want to apologize. I’m not ignoring you. I just can’t keep up. So I just want a general blanket so everyone doesn’t hate me. Because I just I can’t, I can’t keep up. I don’t know what’s happened. It’s out of control.

Mohanad Elshieky  

What a brag. Kiki is just like; everyone just hits me up. I mean, Hoja, just like, yeah, same problem.

Hoja Lopez

Literally, my first thought is like, I got to stop sending just smiley faces to Kiki at things she posts. I’m like clogging up her fucking inbox like crazy. just reacting to shit she puts out, you know what, normalize not getting back to people in time, let’s just make that the new normal. If somebody takes a week or two to get back to you, hey, it used to be that you had to write a letter that would then go on a boat for three years. And then you would find out that your boyfriend died in the war. You know what I mean? Like, that’s how long it took for information to go up. So I believe that you don’t need to respond.

Kiki Monique  42:16

Yeah, thank you.

Kiki Monique 

Thank you so much for listening. I really want all of you to follow us, follow us on IG. @imsorry_podcast. And, you know, give us more feedback. We’ve got a really good feedback so far. But we want more. So follow us on IG. @imsorry_podcast.

Hoja Lopez 

Yes. And definitely go to wherever you listen to your podcast and rate and review. It is not enough to just listen; it is so helpful with the algorithm when you actually go in and tell us what you think. Again, wherever you listen to us.

Mohanad Elshieky

And also make sure that you share it with everyone that you know just forced him to listen to it. I don’t care. Also subscribe. You have to it’s not enough to listen. Okay, subscribe, and listen to us every week. And if you have any topic in mind about who should apologize, please let us know.

Hoja Lopez 

See you next week.

CREDITS

I’M SORRY is a Lemonada Media Original. The show is produced by Alex McOwen, supervising producer is Kryssy Pease. Our executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Our mix is by Kat and theme music was composed by Xander Singh. If you like this show, please rate and review. And please don’t cancel us. You can find out more about our show at @LemonadaMedia on all social platforms, or follow us on Instagram at @imsorry_podcast. We’ll be back next week and until then be nice, play fair and always say I’m sorry. Thanks for listening!