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Nzinga often talks about how we’re all addicted to something. For Nora McInerny, host of the podcast, Terrible Thanks For Asking, it’s reading the negative things strangers say about her online. Whether it’s the comments section, Amazon reviews, or the depths of Reddit, Nora seeks it out. So Nzinga and Nora talk about the root cause, the benefits, and how Nora can find what she’s looking for elsewhere.

Please note, In Recovery contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.

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Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Hello, Happy Monday and thank you for listening to in recovery. I’m your host, Dr. Nzinga Harrison. I’m a physician, psychiatrist, addiction expert, co-founder and Chief Medical Officer of Eleanor Health. Wife, Mom, sister, human. This show is a question and answer show about all things addiction. And so, we need you to send in your questions so that we can see up answers for the next episode. This week, we have another great friend of mine joining us Nora McInerny host of the podcast “Terrible Thanks for Asking.” The blurb of her podcast is that it is a funny, sad, uncomfortable podcast that talks honestly about our pain, our awkwardness and our humaneness. And so, Nora’s coming on In Recovery to share with us her awkwardness, her pain, and her humaneness around her own addiction, which is to reading negative comments about herself online.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Hey, Nora.

Nora McInerny 

Hi, Nzinga. Good morning or good afternoon.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Good afternoon. Good afternoon to you. Good morning to me and good mid-morning to everyone else. 

Nora McInerny 

Let’s kick this off with some hot time zone. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

All right, so listen, I met Nora, this is now our third time being together. It was love at first audio. When I went on her podcast Terrible Thank You for Asking, or is it? Thanks.

Nora McInerny 

It’s thanks. But I’d like to thank you. It’s more formal.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

I was about to say thank you. So, like, oh, lady. You’re like I’m cool. And terrible. Thank you. Thank you so much for your consideration.

Nora McInerny  02:03

Ah, probably should have called it terrible. Thank you, because that is like a little ICR. And I like terrible. Thank you.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

So, it’s so funny. I love the name of your show, Nora. And then of course, I just came to love you as a person with our test points, because you’re amazing. But we were like, Nora, if you came on In Recovery, what would you talk about? And Nora, you said,

Nora McInerny 

I said I know exactly what I would talk about. The version of self-harm that I participate in is digital self-harm. What I mean by like digital self-harm is in this sort of work, where I have a podcast, I am an author, I put a piece of art up right back here. It says never read the comments who needs to be reminded of that I need that actually tattooed on my body somewhere. Because I will do that. I will like purposely go in. I’ll go into Amazon. Click on my book. Why? Why do I need to know? It’s so terrible. And it’s like, it truly feels compulsive. It feels compulsive. And once I’m in there, I will dig further. Like I will dig in, I will be like, you know what, let’s just search my name on Reddit see what comes up? I’m on a streak of not doing that. Right now. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

How long is your streak? 

Nora McInerny 

I mean, it’s been like two weeks, I would say.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Okay, let’s dig into this. Let’s put Nora on the couch. And I mean, I mean the podcast couch for anybody who’s listening. I’m not Nora’s doctor, this is not medicine. Now I’m doing my legal disclaimer. Nothing that I say can be construed to be medical advice dot dot dot. Okay. So, we always talk about on this show, seeing ourselves in each other. Even people who are not podcast hosts can see themselves and being drawn to negative commentary and insults and complaints about them. So even if you maybe don’t have access to it at the same volume that Nora has access to it. This is like a common phenomenon that people experienced. So, one seeing ourselves in each other to looking for the root cause. Three, figuring out the magic formula that has kept you two weeks off of Reddit. But let’s go back to the beginning. What’s the earliest you can remember this type of need for negative feedback? coming up? Report cards?

Nora McInerny  04:28

Elementary school? Elementary school report cards and, and seeing yourself graded. But yeah, I would say it was like those and like reading the notes from the teacher. It was like hearing gossip about yourself. And, you know, which is also like really intoxicating for a child. I see this in like, you know, we have a now a high schooler but a middle schooler, and like, what do they love to know? Like, what did she say? What did she say about me like, so I remember it as early as grade school and just get a feeling Like, well, to do well is to be well, such do good is to, like be a good person and like be worthy? And to not is to not.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Okay, so let’s go back one step before that. Because feeling that in the grade report was a manifestation of a belief you already had. Where’s that belief come from?

Nora McInerny 

Oh God, I don’t maybe I was born with it, maybe it’s maybe it’s being raised by. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Maybe it’s Maybelline. 

Nora McInerny 

Maybe she’s born with it, maybe it’s your dad surviving a war and yelling at you a lot. My dad was really tough, he was a tough dude. And he was he was raised by a person. He was the youngest of nine, but he was the youngest by like 12 years. So, he was really an only child raised by elderly parents who, by that time had like, you know, just sort of devolved into their own lives and issues. And, you know, in high school, I did not think about the way that he was raised. I was like, he is a bad Dad, I hate him. Like, he is ruining my life. And now, I can look back on those years with a more understanding of him. And I can look back at honestly, like, you know, what, it must have been like to raise like, a very spoiled, you know, 17 year old who had things that you didn’t have, and, and who wasn’t going to be drafted into a war to, you know, appear to because mental health didn’t exist in the Midwest, and then late 90s. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  06:37

That’s right. 

Nora McInerny 

And I was like, I need to go see, like a therapist, or a psychologist. And my dad was like, here’s like, what kind of problems do you have? 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Right, exactly.

Nora McInerny 

You know, it’s like, what are you gonna tell them? And I think like, an overwhelming feeling from my childhood is the feeling that like you should already know, like that things were not explained. Like, you should already know, you should just already know this thing that nobody has ever, ever told you. And that I was the third out of four children. So, I got a lot of attention when I did something really well. And also, in the 80s, we were like categorizing kids, like very early and very easily. And it was like, well, so are you gifted?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

So okay, do you know we always talk about bio-psycho-social-cultural-political, and Nora just hit on so many of these. So psychologically, being raised with a dad, where you had to be perfect to get positive feedback. That is because with the way we define psychological, it’s like early childhood and into early adulthood experiences that craft our outlook on life, that define our beliefs. And so, you came up with this belief, to be good, is to do good. Right? To perform to have high performance is to have value is the belief that you had, but also the social-cultural-political. So usually when people hear me talk about them talking about racism, oppression, and marginalization, this labeling kids as gifted or not, is a social-political-cultural input. That is affecting you, Nora. Today, I know you still only in your teen years. So, let’s just say a decade later.

Nora McInerny  08:26

10 years later.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Here she is. So, from the beginning, you said maybe I was born that way? And it’s possible. I don’t know. Would you say like, you have an anxious constitution?

Nora McInerny 

Oh, yeah. I mean, yes, as a child, I would say one of my favorite hobbies was to like, lay in bed and imagine that space goes on forever. And that someday when the world ends, I might, my particles would float too far away from my family’s particles and my particles would be lovely.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Oh, that’s so stressful.

Nora McInerny 

Yeah, I was just like, okay, yeah, the world, you know, the world will end and also, I also I see this in my kids, too. Like, I have a seven-year-old who said to me, my life is going too fast. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Oh, wow. 

Nora McInerny 

And I was like, yeah dude, I know. I felt the same way. When I was seven. I was like, to be seven. Then I’m going to be 10 then I’m going to be 20 then I’m going to be 30 then I’m going to be dead. Basically, I could not imagine life after that is like.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Hey, you got to be dead after 30 just throw me in the grave. Claire, is it time for a break?

Claire 

It’s time for a break.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

So, I would say yes, probably biologically. Some inherited risk for anxiety. psychologically. We already went through social-cultural-politically, we talked about it. The reasons psychological-social-cultural-political, and biological are so important because we’re looking at root causes. So now psychologically, you develop this belief that your value is defined by how successfully you can do things. And so, then we create this self-fulfilling prophecy, where we have to do doo doo doo doo, I see your eyeballs getting big. So, I feel like I’m onto something. And when you don’t do that has the power to undermine your value as a human. So, then we roll from root causes to. Okay, so what can we do about that, which leads to the magic formula? When we’re talking about addiction, we only do things that brings us benefit. Now, that’s not to say that it’s not also causing us colossal damage, because that’s the definition of addiction. But there is benefit. So, are you ready for my question?

Nora McInerny  10:49

Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

What benefit? is reading these negative things about yourself bringing you?

Nora McInerny 

Oh, I mean, truly, probably none. But in the moment, I feel like oh, there I am.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

I feel seen.

Nora McInerny 

there’s, there’s the truth about me. And this stranger on the internet saw it, she saw that I’m actually just like, a dumb person or a like, or a person with a, you know, obviously, being a female podcaster. What is the worst sin that we can do as women his or her voice? I just, I like the podcast. I just don’t like her voice. The way she talks, the things she says but other than that, it’s a great show. It could be a great show, I feel Yeah, I feel I think it puts me in a place where I am. I am reaching for approval. And if I can be reaching for approval, then I have like something to motivate me.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

So, this is the benefit is that you feel seen. And so, what we have to do, because then let’s talk about the negative consequences. What’s the negative consequence when you’re reading these things about yourself?

Nora McInerny  12:03

Oh, I can tell you, I’ve got a little Fitbit. And I can see my heart. Like Hummingbird heart, sweaty, like that sort of like little burning Ember of anxiety, like, catches fire, like a little furnace. And then I will just pull apart the threads of every thread of my life to somehow figure out how could I rebuild to get the approval of this person? Who I don’t know?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

who otherwise would have no impact on your life? If you did read that comment?

Nora McInerny 

None. That’s the thing I’d like one of my friends. GS said to me, she was like, the thing is like, your life is the same. Like she’s like, the facts of your life are the same whether or not you read that. So why not just not read it? And I was like, you sound like your parents loved you.

Nora McInerny

Like, did your dad hug you without you asking? 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Like, did your dad not hug you? Without you asking? 

Nora McInerny 

No, he did. He was very, like, when I look at like pictures, and now I’m gonna cry like he was he was a really good dad to babies and little kids. And then he just, I mean, he went to Vietnam when he was 18. He did love me. And also like that love did not come and like the flavor that I needed it to, you know, which was like I wanted like an 80s tv dad, like I wanted a dad would be like, now, why are you feeling this way? Not a dad who would be like, What the fuck, Nora?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

That’s how the love came. So, this is the connection. This is the connection, and we’re looking for the benefit that it brings you said I feel seen. And that’s because that’s when your dad saw you is when he was saying what the fuck Nora? So, you’re recreating that dynamic. And so, what we have to do is decouple that for you, that you can be seen in with positive feedback as much as you can be seen with negative feedback. And my dad also went to Vietnam at 18. So, I feel like I can relate. I went to medical school, and I learned about PTSD. And I was like, well, this explains so much of the struggle that I had as a child with a father who clearly had PTSD.

Nora McInerny  14:30

Yeah, in college, I took one psychology classes. I’m an expert, um, and so like, puts on my glasses. Thank you, but I remember coming home for like, winter break, and I the next day, I was like, you know, sleeping I heard my I heard something in my parents room, and it’s like, Hey, guys, um, I don’t know what you were doing. But like if you could just not do it so loudly. And my mom was like, Oh, no, Dad was having Vietnam nightmares. And I was like oh! Good. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

I would rather be that. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

It wasn’t penetration.

Nora McInerny 

Like they never it just never occurred to either of them like, maybe he should see someone.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Yeah. So, let me give you permission here. And this is for everybody listening also, because I heard you having a hard time with the question, did your dad not hug you? Yeah, without you requesting it. So, our parents can simultaneously do the absolute best they can for us and still not meet our needs. And this is if you read this book, and they don’t pay me to say these five love languages. I absolutely love it. There’s actually a version for between parents and kids. But your dad did absolutely the best that he could. And it wasn’t it didn’t meet your needs. And we’re dealing with that today, because you felt seen through negative commentary from Dan. And so now you’re trying to get seen through negative commentary through internet trolls. At least dad loved you these internet trolls don’t love you.

Nora McInerny  16:16

Like when I think about that, I’m like, Oh, yeah. Like, why am I literally staring at my phone scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Meanwhile, my child is like you’re the most beautiful person I’ve ever seen. I love you. And I’m like, you’re dumb. Just podcastlistener69 says that I am I’m, I’m an annoying idiot. So, you have bad taste? Did you only know one mom where she was tender? You don’t know better?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Okay, so then when we said, what negative consequences, you started with the physiological reaction, your heart rate goes up, you feel that flutter in your chest that Ember catch fire, your hands get sweaty, your mouth gets dry. Once your body starts giving you that physiological warning. What can you do? And remember, to replace the benefit, so the benefit we’re trying to replace is being seen. So, what can you do? that’s going to get you seen?

Nora McInerny

I started to ask myself this question where I say out loud to myself, what am I looking for? Like, what am I looking for? And I do that if I pick up my phone, sometimes you’re like, Oh, I am I am absolutely going to check my Instagram messages, just see. But I’ve started saying like, what am I looking for? And sometimes I’m like, Oh, I’m lonely. I’m lonely. I live in a new city. I don’t know anybody.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

I need to be seen.

Nora McInerny

I guess I do. And so like, I can call like any of the people that I like, that I work with. And I’m friends with that I can call my sister. I can call my mom, I can, like truly walk into the living room where my husband is taking care of our children and like be seen and yet. I am doing it in this harmful way.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  18:06

Is it a little uncomfortable to be seen with positivity?

Nora McInerny

Oh, yeah. I mean, you, you compliment me and I will be like, thank you. You’re, you’re, you’re wrong, or so I like your outfit. Thank you. It’s free. I found it on the street. It could just get a horrible getting a compliment. Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

So, you already preempted me about triggers when you said I’m lonely. So, my folks listening who are a will already know this HALT acronym. Have you heard it, HALT?

Nora McInerny 

Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

when you’re hungry, angry, lonely, tired. your prefrontal cortex is weaker, to refute those impulses. And you get those impulses to what makes me feel better, I’m hungry, I’m angry, I’m lonely, I’m tired, what makes me feel better. It’s an unconscious process. And for you, it’s negative feedback. And your deep brain sends that forward to your prefrontal cortex and says, I need to feel better. We know the plan, read something negative. And then the prefrontal cortex makes the plan and then you do it. And so, part of the upstream work is to as much as possible avoid hungry, angry, lonely, tired. So, keeping your cup full, good luck in 2020, which is just like constantly kicking over all our cups, but recognizing when your cups getting empty, and leaning on the people around you to fill your cup up. And then last thing I’m gonna say is words of affirmation. So, there are five love languages. One of them is words of affirmation. Sounds like that is not yours. 

Nora McInerny

Yep. It is not. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Do you know your love language? 

Nora McInerny

It is physical touch and quality time.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

And so, it’s not necessarily when you feel yourself looking at Reddit and your bodies Your heart is racing and that little Ember is about Kids are like mayday, mayday, someone, anyone. Don’t go to your husband. And he doesn’t need to say how pretty you are, or how great you are, or how awesome your podcast is. F those people. What you need is a hug and a cuddle. Yeah, and to do whatever you do for quality time, because that will give you the benefit of being seen. Without the consequence of reading those negative comments. That is not medical advice. That is just podcasts. 

Nora McInerny  20:31

And that’s just two friends, 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Two friends hanging on a podcast. So, everybody who’s listening, like listen to those physiological cues, figure out what the benefit is of that behavior, and figure out how to get the benefit of that without the negative consequence. And start with where the negative consequences because part of it also I know dad is dead. Sounds like you’ve done some work. Towards forgiving the pain that that relationship gave you. But that’s gonna be important work. Because once you can, I don’t want to say let go. Cuz that’s not right. Once you can navigate the pain of that relationship, you won’t have as much compulsion to recreate that dynamic in today’s life.

Nora McInerny

Yeah, yeah, I do have I’ve started that work. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

It’s not easy. 

Nora McInerny

It’s not easy, wait, Nzinga. Why is letting go not the right move? Is it just because that’s like unrealistic?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

I said, not letting go. Because when I’m working with people who have lost loved ones in relationships that were fraught, you want to hold on to the memories, you want to hold on to the warmth, you want to hold on to the positive aspects. The goal is to work through that pain and let go of that pain without having to let go of that person.

Nora McInerny

Yeah, it seems like it seems like something you’d do a balloon accidentally.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  22:02

Yeah. And you’re like, Oh, no.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

All right, Claire. I think it’s about time for breaking, shall we? 

Claire

We shall.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

I’ve been noticing and appreciating all of the anti-racism post that you’ve been making on social media. I know words of affirmation are not your thing. So just yeah, it’s like, oh, it’s just feel me hugging you. Yes. Feel me hugging you through the high definition video. I imagine, though, that all of that posting is probably inviting a lot of negative feedback. So how are you navigating? Kind of like both sides of those of that coin.

Nora McInerny

Yeah. And it’s again, like all negative feedback, it is a very small slice of the pie. And also, very loud slice of the pie. So, I would say that it like varies day to day, but on my best days, I am. I mean, I’ve, I’ve changed two people’s minds about their presidential vote too, that I can confirm. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

That’s incredible. 

Nora McInerny

Yeah, that’s two votes. Okay. Now, the cost per hour like that, I do think it’s worth that I think investment. The time investment is a lot. But I do I think that it’s not personal to me, because I am not arguing about like, my own value, and like my own livelihood. And so, in that sense, you know, it’s not, it doesn’t give me that same feeling. And also, when people will nomina unsubscribe from your podcast, but I’m just like, Okay, well, thank you for showing me who you are. And I do know that I am that I am not for everybody. And so that feels like, that just feels less dangerous for me, personally, because also, I do think that following, you know, actually black race educators who are obviously a little smarter than me about this kind of stuff, that if they are people who have come to me for some reason, that I do have some sort of responsibility to try to meet them with some interest and curiosity and compassion so that I can take on that conversation so that they don’t have that conversation with black person, a person of color, and sort of spew all that stuff that’s in their brain. But it can, it can consume me, but it’s obviously less about me. 

Yeah, it doesn’t feel personal. It just doesn’t feel like it’s about me. And so that does feel like a different kind of thing. You know, and then when people are like, well, like you need to like do your research. I’m like, happily like tell me what you’re reading that I haven’t read. Because I’m so curious. I’m so curious about what is happening@infowars.com. And Firstly, I don’t follow queueing on but I would love to know. Or I will say to people, why don’t you give me something to read? And I’ll give you something to read. And then we can come back from like, a common place versus just I have no idea. I have no idea what your context is. Other than you scrolled, you saw a post and hit something in you that you didn’t like. So that feels different because I’m not, you know, in that case, it’s not about me, it’s different than somebody saying, like, Yeah, I just don’t like her voice or the way she speaks or her work. I’ve been on both sides of the internet rage machine. 

You know, like, I have stoked as fires and I have felt it’s flames. And it is either way. Like, it is a hell of a drug for your body. You know, it is when you feel like a righteous warrior. Like on your phone. That also gives you some physical, some like mental like, it does something for you. It does for you. Yeah, it makes you feel like wow, this is I am important. Like, I’m important. And each, I’m looking at me like Ralph Wiggum. I’m helping. Um, and, and I, and I’ve definitely I’ve absolutely been that person, I’ve absolutely been that person. So, it’s not as if I only go on the internet to like, to victimize myself. Like, I have also been in a-hole. And the internet brings out some bad habits in us, like we want to be like, it rewards, not interaction, not compassion. It does not reward like critical thought.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  26:54

So, you said two weeks? No, read in the negative reviews. We talked about the magic formula biological-psychological-social-cultural-political. So, what pieces of your formula Have you been employing for the last two weeks?

Nora McInerny

Oh, actually, where’s my journal, I have been sleeping at least seven and a half hours every night.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Huge, massive, because sleep strengthens your prefrontal cortex to refute your deep brain when the compulsion comes.

Nora McInerny

Nine hours is like, it’s luxurious, but I do need like, I feel my best at eight. So, seven and a half is like a bare minimum. And, and, and I tried to be really, really good with myself on that. And second is like I actually try to meaningfully check in with the people that I care about. Because part of my brain tells me like, again, it’s like you’re really just bothering people, like no one really, like wants it. You know, it’s like people are they’ve got their own lives, they’ve got their own things going on. So, when I’m thinking of a person that I care about, thinking of a good friend, like, I send them a message. And I asked them a question, and I call people I mean, I’m a senior millennial. I love the phone. It reminds me like not a FaceTime, FaceTime, you just stare at yourself, lay on your back on your bed, stare at the ceiling and talk to your friends like you did in middle school. It’s so nice. go on a walk and look at the trees while you’re talking to your friends like from far away people that you don’t get to see all the time. So, I’ve been doing that a lot. And also

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  28:25

Is that quality time? 

Nora McInerny

It’s quality time. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Okay, so we have sleep, we have quality, time and connection. What else?

Nora McInerny

Yeah. And I have been putting the kid the little kids to sleep and laying with them till they fall asleep.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

That’s physical touch. So, do you see? Do you see the way that you’re reducing your need from the benefit from negative comments is filling your cup? I love it. I promise I didn’t pay her to say any of it. 

Nora McInerny

God. No, she did not. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Thank you, Nora. I love having you on. 

Nora McInerny

Thank you. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Do you want to leave our listeners with any words of wisdom? And then I’m gonna kick you out. 

Nora McInerny

Oh, yeah. I never read the comments. Okay?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

That is perfect! 

Nora McInerny

Stay out of the comments. Stay out of the comments. If you need a comment from somebody if words of affirmation are your love language, call somebody who actually gives a shit about you and be like, what do you think? What do you think of me?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

I love her.

Claire

She’s the best. She’s so cool. She is. She’s so like quippy and funny.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

She’s so quippy and funny can I be quippy and funny?

Claire 

Why aren’t we like that? 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

We’re not. 

Claire

But we try. We try. We have good bants. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

But hers is effortless 

Claire

I know. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

We try and she just automatic. 

Claire

It’s just natural. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Yeah, it’s just natural. 

Claire

It’s fine. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

So good. 

Claire

We have other strengths. Okay. So, what are your ending thoughts?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  30:03

Just that I love her. But if I had to, if I had to pull one thing out, but I was really glad that we got to that the conversation took us to is that a knee jerk response could be, if you’re reading negative comments about yourself, replace those negative comments with positive comments. But what we really got to for Nora’s that words of affirmation are not her love language, and so replacing with positive comments would actually make her feel more uncomfortable, and uncomfortable. Sounds like anxiety feels like anxiety transmits danger. And then her brain is like, you know how to get rid of this that could actually drive her back to negative comments. And so, we have to know what actually fills that cup. For some people. It is words of affirmation. And so, we would say, Go read something positive about yourself. But for her, it’s physical touch and quality time. So, it’s not goes read positive comments. It’s go spend quality time and cuddle for physical touch. So, I was really glad that we got to that because I think a lot of times the mistake, we do make is thinking there’s like some easy fix. And we got to that because she led us trace through her childhood experiences, thank you, Nora, for being so open with us. 

Claire

Thanks, Nora.

Claire

Great. Well, that concludes this week’s episode of In Recovery. And we’ll see everyone next week.

CREDITS 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  31:46

In Recovery is a Lemonada Media Original, this show is produced by Claire Jones and edited by Ivan Kuraev. Jackie Danziger is our supervising producer. Our theme was composed by Dan Molad with additional music by Ivan Kuraev. Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer are our executive producers. Rate us review us and say nice things. Follow us @lemonadamedia across all social platforms, or find me on Twitter @naharrisonmd, if you’ve learned from us, share the show with your others. Let’s help this stigmatize addiction together.