Subscribe to Lemonada Premium for Bonus Content

This week on Wiser Than Me, Julia connects with 74-year-old fashion designer and visionary entrepreneur Vera Wang. Get ready for some serious insight. Vera shares wisdom on good sleep, redefining herself after marriage, and her perspective on aging in the fashion industry. Plus, Julia and her mom, Judy, delve into the influence of mothers’ style on their children and reminisce about their all-time favorite outfits.

Follow Wiser Than Me on Instagram and TikTok @wiserthanme and on Facebook at facebook.com/wiserthanmepodcast.

Keep up with Vera Wang @verawang on Instagram.

Find out more about other shows on our network at @lemonadamedia on all social platforms.

Joining Lemonada Premium is a great way to support our show and get bonus content. Subscribe today at bit.ly/lemonadapremium.

Maker’s Mark is a proud sponsor of Wiser Than Me. Celebrate the wise women in your life by creating a custom, personalized label from artist Gayle Kabaker today at www.makersmark.com/personalize.

Hairstory is a proud sponsor of Wiser Than Me. Check out their hero product, New Wash, today at Hairstory.com and get 20% off with code WISER.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/wiser for 10% off your first month.

For exclusive discount codes and more information about our sponsors, visit https://lemonadamedia.com/sponsors/.

For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Mommy, Vera Wang, Julia Louis-Dreyfus

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  00:00

You know, if you look at old pictures of me as a kid, you’re gonna see a little girl who thinks that her white gogo boots and suede fringe vest are the bomb, or my white crocheted dress with a ribbon that my mom added to it at the on Pureline, or my blue seersucker suit that I wore when I flew on airplanes, because that’s what people used to do. They would dress up when they went on airplanes. I remember exactly what it felt like to wear those clothes. They made me feel exceptional. Dressing up, oh man, how I loved it, and how I still do. The ultimate real life dress up has got to be the wedding gown, right? This may be low key one of the best things about legalized gay marriage because now everyone’s in on it. It’s dress ups, its playing princess. I got married in 1987. I was a child bride, obviously. I was actually kind of young. And my wedding dress was very lady dye inspired. I wasn’t a big lady dye person or anything but her wedding dress kicked ass. It had a room with a view vibe. And I was just so crazy about that movie. Lady dye’s dress had these poofy sleeves with two layers of lace that came off the cuff. And I totally stole that from my dress, which was a sort of study of everything awful in the 80s. Well, I mean, that’s not fair. It was fine, but it was so 80s that’s one of the great things about clothes, right? They identify an era, those clothes that I love so much as a kid, there is no question that that’s the 60s and 70s just look back through history across the globe across cultures, and the clothes that people wear. They say so much, they absolutely tell the story of the time. Lincoln’s had Queen Elizabeth big lacing around her neck, […] Tommy, princess’ purple everything. It’s time travel, it’s all a pageant, it’s just Cinderella at the ball, right? And that’s how I felt at my wedding. I was Cinderella at the ball. And so maybe I’m a tiny bit embarrassed when I look at that dress now, but it was a statement of a particular moment. The huge sleeves, the sweetheart neckline the fabric flowered wreath in my hair. I’m pretty sure Brad wore suit. Anyways, man, it was romantic. And I was getting married and for that. Okay, I admit it was perfect. Oh, and okay, and you know what I did? I had this tiny little dolphin that was hand carved out of stone sort of a charm, like a little talisman. And I had them sew it into my dress, because I thought it was a good symbol of joy. You know, dolphins are so joyful, isn’t that cool? But get this, I told them not to tell me where they sewed it. And I still don’t know where it is in the dress, which I think is kind of fabulous. It’s in there somewhere. Fortunes whispers sewn in with Lucky threads of grace. Now that I think of it clothes wise our wedding was really honestly it was a hell of a production. I had a reasonable number of bridesmaids five. And God the bridesmaids dresses, they were fantastic. They were dropped waisted and they were a heavy linen and a very particular green a celadon green. It’s a color straight out of shabby chic and Laura Ashley, and ladies and gentlemen that green does not exist in this century. But they were gorgeous. My friend Rosemary Warren made them and she is the most whimsical, lovely artists and that’s what these dresses were they had a kind of a sailor collar beautiful. And then after the reception, I changed out of my wedding gown into my going away dress. That was the same pattern as the bridesmaids dresses, but it was in a kind of a cream color. And the sailor collar, oh, it was made out of this exquisite antique lace. And I had a clothes hat for the love of God and new flowers and well anyway you get the idea. I kind of got carried away but that’s what fashion is for to just carry us away. We dress up for our rituals, the clothes we wear convey import and there are a huge part of what makes an event special. And I love it. I gotta say I mean there’s really honestly nothing like chic, well tailored clothes to make you feel confident and different and unique. And someone actually designs all those incredible clothes. And I have been so lucky working with insanely talented designers for red carpet looks. So when you see what a truly gifted fashion design or does up close? Oh my god, what a thrill making people feel beautiful. It is an art and these designers, they are masters they capture a feeling a whole era everything that leads up to that moment they capture all of that in a single garment. Just wow, how lucky then that today we are talking to Vera Wang.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  05:37

Hi, I’m Julia Louis-Dreyfus, this is Wiser Than Me the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  05:44

Okay, so what to Victoria Beckham, Jennifer Lopez, Kim and Khloe Kardashian, Ariana Grande, Issa Rae, Mariah Carey, Karina gore and Chelsea Clinton all have in common? Yep, their wedding gowns were all designed by today’s guest. Before she started designing wedding dresses, she was a world class figure skater missing the 1968 Olympic team by like one Double Axel Tsauchab or something. And when the skating door closed, she graduated from Sarah Lawrence and quickly became the youngest editor at Vogue magazine. On a winter set of her no one at Vogue was funnier or more industrious or louder or more neurotic or more endearing. She left Vogue after 17 years to join Ralph Lauren. And then at 40 when she was about to walk down the aisle herself. She noticed there was a lack of fashion forward looks in the bridal landscape and she saw an opportunity. She left Ralph Lauren and became a designer in her own right starting with a sweeping makeover of the bridal industry. In a flash she was sitting high atop her own fashion empire. Oh, yeah. She’s also designed costumes for Olympic skaters, Michelle Kwan, Nancy Kerrigan, and for Nathan Chen, who won the gold wearing Vera Wang in 2022. Her business mind is kind of unparalleled. She’s on all the Forbes magazine lists you can think of. And her work ethic, persistence and drive are legendary. She said her designs don’t really have a signature look, because in life, there is no signature woman and it’s true. Her designs are for the demure, the good girl, the dramatic, the punk rocker and the Kardashian. I am so happy to talk to this incredible business woman, the winner of the National Medal of the arts from President Biden also the winner of the Leejohn Donaire from the French Republic. I think that makes her night or something and I want in on that action. She’s a mother and a creative juggernaut who is so much wiser than me. Vera Wang. Hi, Vera Wang.

 

Vera Wang  08:16

Hi, […] And I’m not wiser than you. Oh, my God. No, I’m intimidated.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  08:24

No, not at all, now, first of all, I’ve got to ask you, are you comfortable if I ask your real age Vera?

 

Vera Wang  08:30

Sure, I’m 74 years and I’ll be 75 on the 27th of June this year. So I’m 74 and three quarters.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  08:42

Good, I and how old do you feel do you think?

 

Vera Wang  08:45

I’m somedays 200, and maybe some days 18, no.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  08:50

Uh huh.

 

Vera Wang  08:52

28 30 how’s that?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  08:55

Running the gamut?

 

Vera Wang  08:56

Yeah, running the gamut. It’s kind of broad.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:00

You’ve had a huge life, I can see why that would be the case. What do you think the best thing is about being your age?

 

Vera Wang  09:06

Um, that I’m here. I’d say saying golf metaphor. I’m on this side of the of the lawn or the putting green or whatever. I think that’s, that’s kind of a big dents. Kind of startling because when you think you’re three quarters of a century old, on that sort of like, you know, I went across the Atlantic at least six to eight times and my mother, and she never wanted to fly. And so I was on one that sister ships of the Titanic.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:36

Get out of here.

 

Vera Wang  09:37

Swear the Mauritania only was Cunard lines, not white star. So, um, I’ve lived through a lot of massive changes, real changes. I mean, I feel like I’m on some massive LSD trip or something.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:52

Well, that’s thrilling. It’s a thrill, you’re on a joy ride.

 

Vera Wang  09:56

I don’t know if it’s joy. I have the word is joy.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:59

Well, it’s sounds like it to me. I mean, you’ve persevered. You’ve had an enormous, huge amount of experience, which is why you’re here today because we’re dying to talk to you about, about your life experience. I have the great fortune of being dressed by you both for the the 2012 Emmys, 2020 Oscar.

 

Vera Wang  10:20

Yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  10:21

And actually, it’s kind of funny. It’s sort of a new thing.

 

Vera Wang  10:24

Yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  10:24

In my lifetime, right? When it started, when I went to the Emmys for the first time in 1992. You know, you would buy your own stuff. And then since then the idea of somebody dressing you and connecting you with a designer, that’s a business all unto itself. And this process of getting new dresses, it’s just, it’s just all new. How does your team at Vera Wang decide who they want to dress for an award show red carpet? How do you come to those conclusions? I’m actually really curious to hear.

 

Vera Wang  10:58

I think it’s, you know, sometimes Kismet. And sometimes we really do try to approach someone. It really depends on the artist or the actor. It just really depends. Um, back in the day, I know that I developed a friendship with Sharon Stone way before our requester. And we sort of mentioned sort of ever go the Oscars, I’d like you to dress me. And that was right when she hit it on Basic Instinct. And she really did call me and say, you know, I’m going, I never thought it would really happen. But it really did. And it was a very memorable moment in my career up to be honest, as a designer, because here I’d had these other 20 years, you know, working in vogue, and then working for Ralph Lauren. And it was pivotal. And she came out and everybody served at that point in wearing Armani. And they were wearing a lot of, you know, very important jackets with trousers, like Annette Bening and a lot of Armani’s, at that time has real clients. And I put her in a ball gown, which is kind of retro when you think about it back then. And I mean, I guess, it was a big boost for my persona, and from my work, and for everything else in Hollywood, believe it or not more than anywhere.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  12:21

Well, I mean, I think the thing that’s so incredible about your designs, Vera, I mean, there’s so many things that are incredible about them, but I think that they’re you make dramatic choices. Can we pull up the dresses that I wore that?

 

Vera Wang  12:36

Yes, yes, yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  12:38

I want to see those. Okay, so that was 2020. And for the people listening, we’re looking at a picture of me in a blue sheath dress at Vera design that I wore to the Oscars that year.

 

Vera Wang  12:49

So I’m going to comment on you. Well, that’s really that’s really a sheet with a modified mermaid. It’s a slip dress, in essence. And I’m going to say, so I prepared something about you. Because really, in a way, you are a minimalist, from what I’ve seen, certainly when I remember you, that Narcissa dress you for a long time, I was studying that, before I ever dress you and I, I think that I’m at your core, you personally are minimized, and a modernist. And there’s always an intelligence to who you are as not only an actor, but as a woman. And I think we one tries to respect least I try to respect who the woman is, as a person, not simply the different roles they play, because obviously, it’s time thought and all those things as amazing roles. But when you’re not in those roles, and you are yourself on the red carpet, I think it’s nice to really show another dimension to who you are.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  13:55

Totally, and I appreciate what you’re saying. I think a minimum list look looks best on me because I’m very small. And I think a lot of poof and stuff can sometimes not work but something tight to body. Maybe less is more. I guess in my my case.

 

Vera Wang  14:21

Every woman has to edit for themselves, what they feel what I think a woman never looks more beautiful or more confident than when she’s comfortable. And so I think comfort, both physically, and also emotionally and artistically and creatively. I think that’s one of woman feels true to herself. Whatever that persona is, to me, that’s when they look their best and feel their best.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  14:52

It’s just incredible wisdom. I couldn’t I know you’re right about that. Of course you’re right about that. And so it can be anything as long as you’re comfortable in it.

 

Vera Wang  15:03

Right.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  15:06

Hey, have you had collaborations? I don’t know if you want to say, but collaborations that ever backfired?

 

Vera Wang  15:13

I have. I won’t name a name but I two really bad episodes. And one was with a very, very wonderful young actor. She was incredible. And I made her something but the eye makeup that she wore to the Golden Globes, I believe was so heavy and it’s sort of running down her face. And I was in a way blamed. They said, how could you do that to her? But I didn’t do the makeup. I have nothing to do with it. Another one is, I won’t say the name but an ex Oscar winner. And I dressed her for years. And she was something that was really proud of because it took a chance. It was minimal geometric, all those kinds of things I loved. And yet her hairdresser did something very strange. Very strange, and we got really in a lot of trouble for that as well though we had nothing to do with it, believe it or not. And those two times were upsetting because I felt upset.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  16:25

That speaks to how important hair and makeup is.

 

Vera Wang  16:29

I’m sending your makeup for you. I call my mask.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  16:32

On for you, Vera. I am wearing makeup for you look see?

 

Vera Wang  16:37

And I have a great makeup person who literally I call her she puts my face on my face. And I never used to wear makeup. You know very few Vogue editors ever wore makeup for 20.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  16:50

Well, it’s a pain in the ass, painting the makeup is a pain in the ass, I don’t.

 

Vera Wang  16:55

I like some days. I like sometimes how I look without any Sunday.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  17:01

Well, sometimes what I’ll do, I don’t wear makeup it really in my everyday life, except I’ll wear lipstick. And I think that’s that can help sort of pop the face. And I have to say just so that people know that working with you and your team is unsurpassed. I will say that.

 

Vera Wang  17:17

Thank you that’s such a compliment to everyone.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  17:21

And I really mean it, because you are so collaborative. You’re so thoughtful, you’re so well, your artistic sense is of obviously sublime. And I don’t know I have a feeling of I trust you. And that’s a big deal because that’s a huge shelf. So much is on the line. That’s the thing that I want to talk about for secondary school lunches on the line. For us as celebrity types walking the carpet, it is hard.

 

Vera Wang  17:51

It’s brutal. I’ve had clients that I’ve taken to the Met Gala, and that stairwell going up that first stairwell. I mean, they’ve just been intimidated by it, I can’t get up the stairs. And also, so many things come into play when you’re going to these events, because the dress has to function as well. People don’t realize that they think maybe it’s just a beautiful gown. But an extremely long train when the room is mobbed is whether it’s Vanity Fair, whether it’s the governor’s ball, whether it’s all the big dinners for obviously Oscars.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:31

Anytime I’ve worn a train, anytime.

 

Vera Wang  18:34

Everyone says it’s fine.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:35

It’s ripped at the bottom, everyone steps on, it’s so irritating. It’s like somebody’s pulling your tail from the back.

 

Vera Wang  18:40

And I can see that they don’t understand their logistics involved as well.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:45

There’s a lot to consider, there’s a lot, but hey Vera, what do you do when you have somebody who has somebody you’re working with who has anxiety about their body?

 

Vera Wang  18:55

I think everyone does. Everyone does, everybody has it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:59

But like somebody who’s really anxious about what their body looks, looks like, do you find yourself being in a position of trying to sort of talk them down?

 

Vera Wang  19:11

No, you know what I think it is a man had some experience I won’t name names, but I think I’m I’m fairly good as a woman, designer for other women that I understand women’s, I feel like I understand them instinctively and how they want to look, you know for male designers that often said this in interviews, they approach one with muses, and they have perhaps they they use their muse through which they can filter and receive different concepts but for one designer, it’s so personal, whether you’re me or Donna Karen our mutual partner Jil Sander we relate to our clothes. On the first several we were we put them on physically and that gives you an entire different take in understanding what aligning should be what aligning. It shouldn’t be shouldn’t be structured or not, should provide support or should be loose, you know, and very open, yeah, it really depends.

 

Vera Wang  20:13

Yes, I am.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:13

Amazing, and you’re talking about having the female perspective as a designer.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:13

It’s a game changer.

 

Vera Wang  20:18

I am.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:20

I think that’s fabulous. I mean, and it’s a real window into design. I think that’s fascinating. I’d never considered that. And I think it’s important to consider.

 

Vera Wang  20:32

Many bring certainly an abstractness to it. They’re not wearing the dress, they haven’t felt the dress, a different perspective completely. For a woman designer, I pretty much see how a woman can look, I do see that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:48

Yeah, that’s right.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:51

Don’t go anywhere. There’s more with Vera Wang after this short break.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  21:09

I want to talk about how your personal style has evolved as you’ve aged, how has it?

 

Vera Wang  21:16

I’m going to say that most of my life, I’ve been a collector of clothing. And I have to say, putting together clothing for me on myself is how I experiment and grow as a thinker. As an artist as a designer. I experiment on myself.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  21:35

But now when you say you’re a collector of clothes and fashion.

 

Vera Wang  21:39

Not just clothes, accessories, I wear okay jewelry, the history of jewelry. I mean, this is all true.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  21:46

I would like to come to your house and look in your closet. That sounds like a shit ton of fun.

 

Vera Wang  21:50

Anytime.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  21:51

Hey, listen, also your hair is so long and jet black. It’s so gorgeous. It’s like now […] you dye your hair.

 

Vera Wang  22:00

I’m 75 years old.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  22:02

Okay, but so here’s my question. Have you ever considered going gray?

 

Vera Wang  22:06

I can’t. I look into it, I’ll tell you why. My hair is not evenly, overall, like that beautiful. One of my best friends in London went fully grey, but her hair is the color of it. And the cut and the tech and it’s even. She does not have to color parts. Mine is not so I would look like a bad skunk.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  22:29

Okay, got it, okay, so keep it as is why do you think women by the way as they get older? Why do you think women very frequently cut their hair short? What’s your take?

 

Vera Wang  22:39

I think women were told that. I’m gonna be very honest. They were told, you know, if you keep it long passes, Mama talk. Women are told a lot of things all their time.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  22:49

Too much.

 

Vera Wang  22:50

Every time.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  22:51

Too far.

 

Vera Wang  22:52

Forerver, and I can speak as headed toward 75 that I don’t believe I believe it. Each one is individual. She is herself. She is unique. And no one should say you’re not this you’re not that I do believe also women should be their best selves. I really hope that but I’m also saying that everyone is unique. How can you make a blanket statement about all people? I mean, it doesn’t make any sense particularly as an ex editor, and certainly designer I mean, 55 years this year, I will have been in fashion 55 years.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  23:31

That is crazy town.

 

Vera Wang  23:33

It’s my birthday, my 35th year owning my own company, which try doing this for 35 years. That’s all I’m gonna say. And it is my 55th year in fashion from when I started.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  23:48

Was your mom fashionable?

 

Vera Wang  23:49

Clothes horse. She was my first influence. And she always she had so much.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  23:55

What did she wear? What did she bear?

 

Vera Wang  23:58

You know, there was a store back they called Hattie Carnegie on 49th Street between Madison and fifth. There was also Saks Fifth Avenue. And in those days you couldn’t get European clothes in America. You had to go to Alexandria so you see funny face with Audrey Hepburn and Fred, it’s yeah, you buyers went to Europe to buy the rights to copy clothing. How’s that? French clothing? Well, American benders?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  24:23

Oh my god.

 

Vera Wang  24:24

And that’s what you bought the copies. You couldn’t get […]. You couldn’t get Dior. You couldn’t get any of those houses.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  24:34

And did your mother were those copies?

 

Vera Wang  24:36

My mother got some copies. But we also started going to Paris pretty much every year every few years so she could jump and pass. And she really introduced me to […] because he was a young guy and she fell in love with it. She always admired artists. She was a real woman, truly one and of substance, and I know that from my mother I learned she used to say to me, every age, I’ll never forget. And I was young, I was like 14, 15, 16, 18, she said, every age has its unique time and beauty.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  25:17

That’s lovely.

 

Vera Wang  25:18

Not unlike Chanel. And she said, it’s not the same. It never will be. But you find your way through. So she didn’t say decades, but she said, every stage, and that always took that with me. And then I remember Chanel said the same thing. When you’re young, you know, what you look like it’s God given. But as you age, it’s how you’ve lived. I think I might be misquoting Chanel.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  25:44

But that is so gorgeous. And it really speaks to how you’ve aged I mean, you’ve you’ve you embody that. That’s so phenomenal. What a gift your mother gave you that.

 

Vera Wang  25:54

I think when people say I dress young, I think I’m really just dressing expressively as a designer. Some is devoted 55 years of my life to dressing women.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  26:05

So you’re growing up in New York, you’re living this fabulous life. And around this time, you also fell in love with figure skating?

 

Vera Wang  26:13

Yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  26:14

So remind me how old were you when you started skating?

 

Vera Wang  26:17

Six.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  26:18

Wow.

 

Vera Wang  26:19

Semi Second Street Central Park. The sailboat plan froze over. And here’s a crazy story. My father skated in China. What are the chances? My dad could figures, can you figure […]

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  26:33

Really?

 

Vera Wang  26:34

It’s insane, so he bought me skates for Christmas took me to Central Park, we lived downtown at the time we lived on 20th Street from me up then that’s whenever I go to Central Park. I remember that was when I first skated. And I fell in love with that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  26:50

Are you still in love with it, but.

 

Vera Wang  26:51

I’m still in love with it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  26:52

Oh, that’s nice.

 

Vera Wang  26:53

It’s the most freedom. It’s the only sport that exists where you can be an artist, and an athlete. And you can skate to music. And you can have choreography, and you can at speed. And you’d have that athleticism, and you have discipline. And you look and you learn a metaphor for life and skating, you fall so much to learn. And that’s what you take with you the rest of your life that you can fail, but pick yourself up. My life is defined by missing many goals. I’ve always said that I didn’t make it to the Olympic team. I worked above for many years, and I never really got the top job and someone far more far better for it in hindsight, and more qualified than me got it. But I was there for 17 years. And and then I went to Ralph Lauren, where I work. You know, I was just honored there to be a part of his team.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  27:50

Yes.

 

Vera Wang  27:51

I mean, I felt grateful to work for him and what I learned. And then I went in my own company. And that has been a times exhilarating. But I would say 85% sweat, and 15%.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  28:06

So in other words, all of those. I don’t know, I don’t want to call them failures, but.

 

Vera Wang  28:12

They’re not failures, but their limitations.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  28:15

The limitations or the experiences that didn’t work out the way you thought they might informed how you made decisions and what you’ve done with your life in a very, very significant way. I know you’ve talked about it when you didn’t make the Olympic team that was a wicked blow.

 

Vera Wang  28:35

A nervous breakdown.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  28:36

You did.

 

Vera Wang  28:37

Yeah, I did drop out of college for a year I had a breakdown. I mean, here.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  28:43

What did you do? What did you do? Did you have to go into therapy for a long time?

 

Vera Wang  28:47

I left Sarah Lawrence. Um, I moved to Paris. I was able to do that. Not everyone is and it was devastating when you are so consumed by something that me you know, they don’t realize that the first 20 years of my life, I trained a Balanchine School of American Ballet and Balanchine was still alive at that point with all the Russian teachers. And I didn’t help my skating. I did give me more line, more connection, more extension, more movement, more knowledge and choreography and movement. When you do that, and you skate in the summer, 10 hours a day. And in the wintertime.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  29:28

Training was like 10 hours.

 

Vera Wang  29:29

Yeah by noon, I already skated five hours, and I loved it. I was the last get off the Zamboni machine, because I loved it. And when you fail, and there’s nowhere to go, because I didn’t really want to perform and I shot I was in college. I was Sarah Lawrence. I had a breakdown because there’s nothing to fill that void. Not only physically but creatively emotionally.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  29:56

So then what and how did you pivot out?

 

Vera Wang  29:58

I tell you I was in Paris, and at the time was dating the champion of France, a figure skating Patrick Pereira. And he educated me on French fashion. And one of his best friends was an editor, French Vogue, Natalie de la Noir. And I didn’t know an editor even was, I mean, I, I saw back my mother dress fashion, but I didn’t think of working fashion never even occurred to me. And I saw when an editor was, and I creating pictures, and it was like making movies and I said, God, I want to do that. So when I got back to New York, I went back and finish college. And I took a job in the summer as a sales assistant at East Celeron. A Madison, 71st, and I a lot of my life was played out in the 70s, I guess 70s the streets. And when I was there, I met this woman, Francis Stein, who said me when you finish your studies College, call me. You should come to Vogue to work. And I went to my mother. I said this woman said she would. And my mother read Vogue, obviously. And, I said, this woman said, you get me a job at Vogue. And my mother’s no, she won’t she just been polite to you. But that’s my parents. They were tough, boy, were they tough. And they only they only wanted me. They want me to achieve. They want excellence. They weren’t into fluff. That was not their thing.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  31:35

Vera Vera, you did it, you I know they’re into excellence. You did excellence. You did that for them. But after Vogue so then you left to and you you became a design director for Ralph Lauren.

 

Vera Wang  31:47

Yes, I had wanted to be a fashion designer. Also in the beginning, and my father wouldn’t pay at the Paris day I got all into fashion. And I said, maybe could I go back to school and learn about design? He said, no, I’m not paying for any more tuition after Sarah Lawrence. And there was an extra year locked in there, too. He said, If you think you’re so hot, go get a job in fashion, see if you even like it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  32:15

Right.

 

Vera Wang  32:15

And so I say to a lot of the kids that I speak to a week have gone back to high school, I say, go get a job, because I’m always being asked and get paid to learn. And see if you really like it. Cuz a lot of interns we’ve had through the years young women. And men have said I want to be in fashion. Some of them were the children of friends or other designers. And sometimes they’ve said after their stint, I don’t want to go near this.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  32:50

So that but that’s good.

 

Vera Wang  32:51

Do right or I do, and I’m when he was my company that did that to them? Or if it was me that did it to them or whatever, but you learn that you really see them. Do you really want to work in it? Or do you want to just shop or do you just want to photograph yourself? I mean, it’s not the same thing.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  33:10

No, it’s not.

 

Vera Wang  33:11

Right?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  33:12

That’s hilarious.

 

Vera Wang  33:13

People want to shop. We need more of it, bring it on.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  33:18

Yeah, you don’t need them working for you necessarily. So what advice would you give to people who are listening today who want to have a career pivot at the age of 40, isn’t that old?

 

Vera Wang  33:32

[…] Everyone says 30.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  33:33

40 is young, 40 is young, but still, I was like, but I mean.

 

Vera Wang  33:39

I wasn’t married that I didn’t get married till I was 40, 3 days shy my 40th, I got made it under that 40 wire and I got married. But I never even I grew up in an age we never thought about that stuff even. Maybe it’s too busy working. But I know all my mother’s friends are what’s wrong with her. She can’t get a husband. And they ended up dressing brides. I mean, you have to admit there’s some irony there, right? I mean.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  34:06

Oh, wait a minute, I have to show you something. So I got married in 1987 […]

 

Vera Wang  34:11

My tears up to you. And I’m like y’all, okay?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  34:15

But when you need to look, we’re going to I want to show you my dress, which will also put up on our socials. Look at my dress, Vera.

 

Vera Wang  34:22

Oh my god. Yes, you look beautiful. I love the bouquet too. I always tell brides be careful with the bouquet because they never look at the bouquet for all the fittings. And then, you know, someone’s the party planner, the florist who’s quite detached from the bridal dress process.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  34:39

Yes.

 

Vera Wang  34:40

Gives them a bouquet that doesn’t resonate with the dress and can really ruin all our hard work. Sorry to say but I’m being honest. But you look fabulous, the scale of […]

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  34:49

Thank you, the thing is, is that the one thing I’ll say about this dress is you know, it was around the time Lady Dye.

 

Vera Wang  34:56

I know.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  34:56

So it has, so it’s sort of a nod to a dress with the puppy slay.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  35:01

It’s also I’d loved, loved loved the movie Rroom With A View. Do you remember that movie Vera?

 

Vera Wang  35:01

Yes.

 

Vera Wang  35:02

Yes, I loved it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  35:03

So this was sort of in that vein of Room With The View was corseted top, and a big poofy skirt. And my veil was, you know, went well beyond the train.

 

Vera Wang  35:19

Now, this has stood this has stood the test of time.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  35:23

I’m so happy you think this? You know who designed it?

 

Vera Wang  35:26

Who?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  35:26

I sort of made it up myself. While I worked with the guy who was at the time the costume designer at SNL.

 

Vera Wang  35:35

Wow, why not?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  35:38

Why not? I mean, it’s who I knew. I mean, I didn’t know anybody.

 

Vera Wang  35:41

I mean, I’ve just I love your hair. There’s a romance to this. I love your face. I love the light, light, light makeup. It’s beautiful.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  35:51

Oh, good. I’m so happy that you like it.

 

Vera Wang  35:54

It’s not incorporating too much stuff. In a way the bouquets speaking and it brings a feeling of nature to the dress, you know, I mean, doesn’t look like it’s a, you know, centerpiece for table.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:06

I so appreciate that, and then one of my very best friends, Paula, who actually produces this podcast with me. She got married 10 years later, and look at what she wore Vera.

 

Vera Wang  36:17

Let me see, ah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:20

That’s your dress.

 

Vera Wang  36:21

I know. Yeah, we got very minimal there […]

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:26

But look how that’s has stood the test of time just has exquisite.

 

Vera Wang  36:30

Yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:31

But the difference between in these 10 years. The reason I’m showing you these two pictures is because it speaks to your influence in this bridal industry and design in general, of course. But I mean, there it showed up in our lives. And wow, Anyway, I just thought you would get a kick out of that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:55

Stay put my conversation with Vera Wang continues in just a moment.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  37:11

I know you have two daughters. Is that correct?

 

Vera Wang  37:14

I do, okay.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  37:15

Yes, so what what is your relationship to your daughter sense of style and?

 

Vera Wang  37:21

God, rough subject. I mean, I have a daughter that loves fashion. But I guess Oprah said when I was like going through parenting issues, and I remember saying I’m having this particular problem with my older daughter because she’s very headstrong. She said, don’t you want her to be that way and away? I so we’re not really loving it every day but anyway, um, so she loves fashion but as an individualists, which I hope every woman is, yes, she likes fashion through her own lens.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  37:56

Sure.

 

Vera Wang  37:57

It isn’t my lens, but she’s very accommodating. If I see you have to go with me to an event you have to wear me. She’s that she will do it. And she’s glad to do it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  38:09

She’ll do it. Well, that’s respectful.

 

Vera Wang  38:11

Right, I have another daughter that really handsome warn me, much ever. I’m hoping I get the wedding before I die. Both weddings because I’ve done most of my friends kids weddings, but.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  38:25

But wait, well, that you will dress them for their wedding, correct?

 

Vera Wang  38:29

I certainly hope I’m a alive and well and can do it. I don’t want to exert pressure and say hurry up. But because I had none on me. But I mean, the young, my younger daughter actually works in your industry. And, um, and she’s extremely conservative and quiet and, you know, she doesn’t want to ever look too sexy or anything like that. And whatever I buy her. I just finally gave up after you know, 15 Christmases and birthdays. I said, you know what, why don’t you just choose and I’ll pay for it. That became the modus operandi for many, many years. And when I asked him to save her to do something with me on the red carpet, she will concede for grudgingly that she doesn’t like any of that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  39:20

Got it, so very different.

 

Vera Wang  39:23

Very different.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  39:24

Yeah.

 

Vera Wang  39:24

You would think that, you know, maybe it’s because I designed clothing for women that they both have their own take that could very well be the case.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  39:34

Sure, of course yeah. Make sense, they have to find their own path.

 

Vera Wang  39:38

Their own identity. And I think that, um, for me, it sometimes is frustrating. I can’t say as a mom, it isn’t so early on. They were their own people. And I guess I love that. I guess I’ve gotta love it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  39:54

Yeah, no of course you’ve got to love it, that’s who you are.

 

Vera Wang  39:56

That’s what I say to women. Then I have to accept in my own home.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  40:00

That’s exactly right you do, how did you balance your professional life?

 

Vera Wang  40:07

Oh God.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  40:08

Designing the bridal line, the award season ready to wear. And you had these two children? How did you do it?

 

Vera Wang  40:15

And sick parents, very sick parents.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  40:17

And sick parents.

 

Vera Wang  40:19

The last 13 years of each of their lives was brutal.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  40:23

I’m so sorry to hear that.

 

Vera Wang  40:25

I was never going to let my parents die alone in a in a hospital or in a bed. And I wanted to be there as much as I can. And I was and I have no regrets. But it did get very, very, very tough. I mean, building a company to young children. And both parents unfortunately suffered a great deal. There were not easy deaths. And they were long and drawn out. At one point they crossed over. So I was running at New York Presbyterian, it’s running between floors, because one with pulmonary and the other was a stroke. So um, my dad had stroke, many. And my mother eventually died in the lung and my father died of prostate cancer. So I become a bit of an activist for that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  41:14

And so here you are, you’ve got these two kids.

 

Vera Wang  41:16

Yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  41:17

Your parents are ill and dying.

 

Vera Wang  41:19

And my husband was commuting to London for business.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  41:22

Okay, so your husband was going to London, so wasn’t around? How did you hold it together? What did you do? And then how did you manage your grief? Let’s because I think talking about grief is always a part of these conversations.

 

Vera Wang  41:37

Always.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  41:38

How could it not be? How could it not be right, reached a certain.

 

Vera Wang  41:42

Life is growth, I’ve talked to Mike, I talked to a lot that people I work with are like my day family. We talked, I talked to them about these things. They’re much younger, but I try to say prepare yourself. And Jane said it ponder on your podcast. She said, this is not easy. And I just kept on I didn’t even think I you literally put yourself on the 10th burner. You run to your parents, you run to them whenever a nurse calls her doctor calls, then you also try to be there for your children. And I think during that period, which was very formative for them, I wasn’t there enough. And I regret, I mean, I was up against moms. And I’m nothing but respect for women who choose to make that their life’s work. I mean, I’ve so many friends that have I mean, I couldn’t do the best brown bag lunch and the best sandwiches. I couldn’t do enough. library book drives for the kids at school. I couldn’t I would come to the volleyball matches at the gymnastic matches, and I’d have to leave early and one time my daughter just started to cry, why do you always have to leave early. And so you know, women are not only as far as we’ve come, we still assume so much of the burden of life. And now that we’ve thrown work into it as another part. Anyone who says it’s easy. It’s not being truthful, because something has to give. And very often it’s us, it’s us it has to give and people don’t understand, we’re all Superwoman. I mean it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  43:33

Yeah, I mean, I in my in and.

 

Vera Wang  43:35

It’s exhausting.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  43:38

It’s exhausting, it can be exhilarating at the same time.

 

Vera Wang  43:41

Yes, at times.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  43:42

That was a huge bounce. But for me, because I was working full time when I had both of my boy. And for me, it was a constant struggle.

 

Vera Wang  43:54

Me too.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  43:55

Figuring out how to straddle the world of motherhood and a professional life.

 

Vera Wang  44:04

Yes, and when you’re on top of juggling, make your kids feel safe and protected, and offering them every opportunity you can possibly offer. Because that’s basically parenting is to prepare them, I think, for the world ahead as much as you can, as unpredictable as it is.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  44:24

Have you been able to with your girls? Have you been able to sort of reconcile that deficit from their youth to a certain extent you talk about it with them?

 

Vera Wang  44:33

I think one would have to ask them to be perfectly honest. I really think you’d have to ask them I think that, you know, they, you know are certainly grown up now. And so they see things in a different perspective. And, um, you know, there may be more forgiving, or they may understand better that all saw. I mean, maybe people don’t realize this about me what the perception I have no idea. But I had to work to provide the lifestyle that they lived. It wasn’t truly an ego or my passion for women and clothing and dressing. It was also necessity.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  45:19

Can you talk about transitioning into being single? Because you are who got your marriage? You were married for how many years? 20 Something want, I think, right?

 

Vera Wang  45:30

Yeah, I’m trying to think exactly what the years for I think maybe at that time, 22 years.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  45:40

And what was that transition, like?

 

Vera Wang  45:42

Very difficult. I have to be honest, because it wasn’t when we literally separated. It was prior by about five or six years. And I’m one of those people never quits. So I’m up for therapy, whatever clinging on with my fingernails, praying, hoping, wishing. And that’s who I am. I mean, you know, I am not someone who says next, or, you know, if you and I’m, you know, I don’t give up. You know, that’s, that’s not always healthy. I mean, it can be very detrimental to your emotional health and your, and your psyche and your sense of yourself and your own self respect and dignity. And I think I was cleaner. And I tried here, I had kids, and people say it’s always about keeping the family together. It isn’t, it’s also about yourself, you’re honest.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  46:35

Of course, it’s about your health.

 

Vera Wang  46:37

Yeah, how do you go from making a commitment to someone that you think you’re going to build a life with?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  46:43

Yes.

 

Vera Wang  46:43

And then all of a sudden, or some incident or some deterioration, makes you realize that it isn’t going to work. Because there’s someone else involved? And they may not want it? Or they may not want it in the way you want it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:01

Right? Yeah.

 

Vera Wang  47:02

Fair, is that fair?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:03

Yeah. I totally get it.

 

Vera Wang  47:05

Everybody has a different expectation level of a marriage. And you know, marriage is hard.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:10

Yeah, marriage can be very hard. It can be wonderful. But it can also be very difficult.

 

Vera Wang  47:14

Yes, metaphor for life, you know?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:17

Yeah, no kidding.

 

Vera Wang  47:18

You’re skating getting up when you fall when you’re going through bad patches, and then had to try some I’ll work through it, you know?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:25

Yeah.

 

Vera Wang  47:25

But it was brutal.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:27

But you got through it.

 

Vera Wang  47:28

It seems I’m trying still to get through. I mean, I’ve dated.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:33

You have dated?

 

Vera Wang  47:34

Yeah, I mean, literally, date. Now what date implies? I don’t know what date means anymore, at my age? No, no, I have obviously, I’ve tried to have relationships. It’s, it’s not easy. And I think that when you’re working woman to the extent that I am, and other webinar that I know and love and respect. Sometimes may be may be can be a bit intimidating.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  48:00

Yeah, I was about to say men can be intimidated by that. Totally get it, but do like I would imagine you kind of like being single too, that’s a sense.

 

Vera Wang  48:09

I will say one thing, I started to be able to have what awesome an empty nester, friends, kids running around their friends running around and running a daycare center, which I love. You know, I love it. Everybody come to my house and get Big Mac, you know, Happy Meals and all the mothers would be angry at me. But I thought it was a treat, you know, I drive the kids. But I have to say, I’m gonna love McDonald’s. But um, I think that one thing that’s good is I began being along, to be able to give myself permission to take a little bit better care of myself, which I could never fit in when you’re when you’re running a company and you’re got kids, and they’re going up and going through their stages, you know, like, yeah, first bar mitzvah, Bat Mitzvah? Yeah, getting into schools, SAT, ACTS, getting tutors. I mean, all the things you have to do with kids at every stage from potty training, you know.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  49:11

All the way through.

 

Vera Wang  49:11

All the way through. I mean, a parent doesn’t until they die.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  49:14

Yeah, so taking better care of yourself, which I wanted to ask you about so let’s talk about that.

 

Vera Wang  49:20

I don’t feel all the time. I don’t feel tense. I did start to realize I was losing lung capacity and muscle strength. At one point, um, a few years ago comes I’ve always been an athlete, but I never worked out consistently after a period I broke my ankle and 37 after that, I couldn’t I couldn’t really do what I liked, I was a runner. And I’m very knowledgeable about the bar obviously I dance about to be, yeah other level of knowledge. I mean, in all fairness, truthfully, but yeah, you know, I pride myself on true on to whenever I could with the schedule so I had, I call it sporadic working out, not consistent all the way through. But I really decided last August because that a particularly difficult schedule last year, we had two moves or corporate move, and then we changed stores in LA. And that was just the added cherry on top of running the company. And I, I made a decision for myself that I would really try to gain strength again. So I’m happy to say I’m pushing at 200 pound leg presses now and.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  50:37

How nice.

 

Vera Wang  50:38

And not crazy. I mean, I don’t do it, you know, I don’t work out in the gym three hours a day. I don’t have time. But if I can fit in a 40 minute walk, like my sister in law loves to walk and you know, she’s more retired, she’ll walk two hours with with my brother but I tried to fit in that and make an effort to make that happen now, we’re other times.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  50:58

It’s wonderful.

 

Vera Wang  50:58

Everybody needs you. There’s depth to talk to you this hour. You can’t do it any other time. You’ve been yourself and Jim for every other appointment. And I find so you know what, I’m gonna be 75. And if I can’t drink out an hour a day for myself, then there’s something really wrong. So I’ve gained a lot of strength.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  51:15

Because your top I love sleep, too.

 

Vera Wang  51:18

I love sleep.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  51:18

No, it’s so divine. How much sleep do you get a night?

 

Vera Wang  51:23

I would say minimum eight. And on a very good day. There are days I can go 10.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  51:29

Is there anything that you do to ensure a good sleep? Is there any.

 

Vera Wang  51:34

I’ve changed, I have changed. I used to watch TV and someone’s fall asleep with the click on the TV on. But now, I’ve changed. I turn the TV off. And I read a bit. I have a friend who brings new books, who actually works to me as well. And he brings new books which I started reading again, which I kind of really love. And even though I can’t get to maybe four or five, six pages, not, you know, maybe chapter two, depending on the book, but that helps me calm down.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:07

Yeah, well, speaking of calming down and relaxing, I want to ask you about your vodka.

 

Vera Wang  52:13

I always like to have a cocktail at night. I mean, I like to have one. Although I was having, you know, a lot of dental surgery this past year, not antibiotics. So you really can’t do that. I mean, the efficacy of antibiotics doesn’t work with alcohol. So I, you know, basically had to stop for quite a while. But I like a cocktail. I don’t mean five. I mean, three, I like a cocktail at night before dinner, and I just like it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:47

Well, I would love to have some time we have to have a vodka cocktail together. That would be really nice.

 

Vera Wang  52:52

Yes, it’ll have to be my vodka. It will have to be my.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:56

Out question.

 

Vera Wang  52:56

I need to start to push that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:59

Oh, no. I’m happy to push it and I’m happy to try it and I can’t wait to try your your vodka. Okay, Vera, is there something you would go back and tell yourself at 21?

 

Vera Wang  53:12

Yes, I would be more premeditating how I approach life. I’ve been more of a person that was organic. Things came my way. And not came my way, that way. I mean, things occurred. And I just think God, that seems like a good idea at the time. Like the Vogue job. I didn’t run into Conde Nast thinking I’m going to be a bulk editor. I was in a way discover. And I think it also Richard Avedon. I have to thank him, God rest his soul. always recommended that I become an editor because he believed in me, from the time I was an assistant of Vogue. But I have to say that I have learned to be more not even strategic, but to think in steps for drone. I was young, I didn’t I 21 didn’t even occur to me. Did nothing steps, yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  54:08

Very, very good.

 

Vera Wang  54:10

It didn’t occur to me then building blocks.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  54:13

Totally, is there something you’re looking forward to?

 

Vera Wang  54:16

I’m looking forward to having more personal time. That’s something I’ve really discovered. And it I don’t know if it’s because of my age, or because of fashion and the workflow. And it doesn’t leave a lot of room to think about yourself. You’re very busy externally trying to relate and to create and to sustain, that’s a challenge for people at any age.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  54:48

Yeah, it is a challenge, it’s a balance.

 

Vera Wang  54:51

Yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  54:51

You’re talking about balance and wellness and, and all of it and keeping your sanity and keeping you your sanity holding on your sanity, signaling to it with your heart and soul. Vera, this has been the best conversation ever. You’ve been incredibly generous and I just admire you beyond. Well, I can’t articulate how much I admire you. I think you’re a hugely wonderful person.

 

Vera Wang  55:19

Love you. Thank you very much. Thank you for including me.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:26

Well, wasn’t that a treat? Okay, so I’m going to call my mom on zoom so I can tell her all about this conversation.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:39

Hi, Mom.

 

Mommy  55:40

Hi love.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:41

How are you?

 

Mommy  55:42

Good, how are you doing?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:43

I’m good, so mom, today we spoke to Vera Wang.

 

Mommy  55:50

You know what? There’s just something about her clothes, simple. And they are so classic. And they’re just so so flattering.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:58

Yes, it’s funny, you say that because she was talking. She was certainly we discussed the dresses that she’s done for me and they’ve been very she her word minimalist. And was was your what I want to talk to you about fashion for a second was your mother’s fashion style influential to you? Because I can tell you it was to me your mother.

 

Mommy  56:24

Oh, really? Well, that’s so interesting. Yes, it was my mother. She look wonderfully glamorous in clothing usually dress glamorously. And sometimes it made me feel uncomfortable. Be why I felt that she was overdoing. And I think that grace did overdo. I mean, she wore a lot of costume jewelry. She wished she had an old thing. I know what to do with it, put a big sparkly pin on it and think that addressed it up. I mean, she she would do one one thing, one dramatic thing to make it to turn it around. And and I didn’t think that that worked. And but when there was something it was called the new look. And the new look, I think came out in the 50s. And that’s when the the sort of dirndl skirt, the big skirt, the poodle skirts came out and and the suits that had big shoulders and were long and had like long jackets that have sort of a Joan Crawford look.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  57:26

Uh huh.

 

Mommy  57:26

It was a it was called the new look. And mother had some suits that were in the new look. And I remember that we went over to, to Culver where my brother was, and Thanksgiving, and my mother was dressed in the new look. And I remember my brother was thrilled. He just said look like a month. And she did she look wonderful in in the clothes. And she she loved clothes. She loved them, love them love them. All these formals that you would keep in their closet. I think I’ve told you that. And she in the guestroom closet. So Judy and I my best friend growing up, when we would dress up we would go and we sneak in the closet. We put those clothes on, put her dresses on, and we would sort of tie them up and try to make them fit and and it was just hysterical. What we did, and then mother one time had I can’t remember what whether they were her dresses or they were somebody grown up dresses, but she hadn’t cut down to fit us.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  58:24

Oh.

 

Mommy  58:24

And guess what?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  58:25

What?

 

Mommy  58:26

He hated them.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  58:29

Why?

 

Mommy  58:30

Do you like putting your mother’s dress on it? Yeah, like hanging thing and then we’d make it fit and and we thought it was perfect. When we had arranged it. But when it was made for us. I mean that was like, you know what your your sister Lauren said one time when I took her to see the Matisse cutouts. She was 10 years old, and she said I can do that. So we could wear that if we wanted to wear the things that were out there, up there.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  58:59

The it’s so funny because I have the same experience with Didi, my grandmother who had called Didi your mom, because when I would stay with her, she would what I loved about staying with her was that she would just let me go in her closet. And so I would spend hours in her closet trying on her shoes, and her dresses and her jewelry. And her purses. she had so many purses, and it’s so funny because then I remember when she died and there were all these clothes and they they didn’t have the same allure as they had when I was little but I remember thinking that she was just the glamorous of the glam.

 

Mommy  59:47

Yeah, she she had a lot of that quality about her. A lot of sheen.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  59:52

A lot of sheen. Mom, are there any pieces in your closet that you remember vividly? as being fabulous that you love and, you know, looking back on clothes.

 

Mommy  1:00:05

Looking back on clothes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:06

Yeah.

 

Mommy  1:00:08

I tell you what I love with the Pucci, the Pucci look.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:10

I know you’re gonna say Pucci.

 

Mommy  1:00:12

Yeah, I had two pieces, sort of the slacks and the U and the top and I had to add a dress. That was a Pucci, like, which I adored. I wore that my 50th birthday party had long sleeves, and it had it was sort of and it had to kind of have a line skirt. And it had if I couldn’t see a picture of it, it had some, some geometric designs on it. And I love that, I loved it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:41

I love the Pucci stuff that you wore. I remember the pants suit. I believe it was sleeveless.

 

Mommy  1:00:47

I remember sleeveless, yes, exactly, exactly.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:50

Yes, and by the way, if you have that now, it would be still good. Talk about timeless.

 

Mommy  1:00:55

Oh, absolutely, it would.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:56

I wish you did have it mommy. Why don’t you have it?

 

Mommy  1:00:59

Well, I would wear that oh, try to predict what is going to look good in 40 years. I know try to get a castle and put all those clothes in it. Just have nothing but close in that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:01:13

Okay, note to self get a castle for your clothes. Okay, mommy, well, listen, I’m gonna go but I’m going to call you later. And thanks for talking to me about Vera Wang.

 

Mommy  1:01:24

Well, I am so happy to talk to you about Vera Wang or about your any other thing. So let’s do it again.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:01:30

Okay, I’ll see you next week, love you.

 

Mommy  1:01:32

Love you, bye.

 

CREDITS  1:01:43

There’s more Wiser Than Me with Lemonada Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content from each episode of the show. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts. Make sure you’re following Wiser Than Me on social media. We’re on Instagram and Tiktok at @WiserThanMe, and we’re on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media. Created and hosted by me Julia Louie Dreyfus. This show is produced by Kryssy Pease, Jamela Zarha Williams, Alex McOwen, and Hoja Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer, Rachel Neil is VP of new content and our SVP of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive Producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and me. The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Sparber. And our music was written by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel, and of course, my mother Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts. And if there’s a wise old lady in your life, listen up.