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Description

While Ku is out, SuChin is joined by actress, podcaster, and former K-Pop top-charter Sara Sohn. The two discuss parenting, cooking, and figuring out their shape shifting womanhood in their 40s. Does that include DIY crafting and eating fish over the sink? Hard yes.

Please note, Add To Cart contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.

To see all products mentioned in this episode, head to @addtocartpod on Instagram. To purchase any of the products, see below.

• Sara is the cohost of Being Bumo with friend and past guest of the pod, Chriselle Lim
• Permission to Come Home: Reclaiming Mental health as Asian Americans by Dr. Jenny Wang
• Check out the feelings wheel!
• For more vocabulary, and general good TV/reading, check out Atlas of the Heart with Brené Brown
• The Marni sandals that are DIY-SuChin’s inspiration
• One of Sara’s favorite snacks is eating canned sardines over the sink
• Mike’s post about SuChin’s intro in My Life Growing Up Asian in America
• Sara’s go-to sunscreen is Bliss Block Star Mineral sunscreen
• SuChin loves Florence and the Machine’s new album, Dance Fever. Especially the first song on the album, “King”

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Sara Sohn, SuChin Pak

SuChin Pak 

Welcome to a very special episode of ADD TO CART. Now this is a show where we talked about the things we buy and buy into, I’m SuChin Pak and today wow, what a treat. We have a very special guest, a dear friend of mine, Sara Sohn, Sara, I just want you to be honest. And you’re always honest. So I just say that. So when I texted you and I said Hey, could you fill in for, Ku? Will you come on the podcast? Okay, what percentage of you were like, oh, this sounds like fun. And then the other percentage of like, oh, like we know too much about each other. And we may spill everything on this show. And this may never make the air so just like, you know, just off the top of your head percentage.

Sara Sohn 

10% of me was thinking this sounds like a good idea. But it might not be one.

SuChin Pak 

So 90/10, I was giving it more like a 75/25 but I’m so glad that you answered my texts. I knew you would. Because you’re that kind of a friend. And I also know that we know a lot about each other, we’ll try to keep it keep it real but also PG. Somewhat.

Sara Sohn 

It’s hard to stay PG these days. I don’t know hard [..] is anymore to be honest.

SuChin Pak 

Okay. Before we get into everything you guys you can already tell I’m so excited to have Sara on the show. Let me just give you just a just a little taste of who Sara is. In case you’re not familiar yet. Okay. Sara is the co-host of the Being Bumo podcast with Chriselle Lim who was a guest on this show. And they talk about parenting they talk about their lives. She’s an actress. You may have seen her in searching Twin Peaks, Sun, Sensate. Perhaps you may know her from her days as a Kpop star with her love banger it’s my life which reached number two on the US Billboard Charts 2007 holy moly, who wants to be number one when you can be number two on a Billboard chart. That’s pretty incredible. Other fun facts, she was raised in Guatemala. She’s an incredible cook. I whenever I see her Instagram Stories, we’ll get into that, you are a good cook. See she’s giving me a suspect look, but she is. She loves to end a night out with karaoke.

Sara Sohn 

Every night. We have mini version, mini karaoke machine that gets more use than anything else in this house.

SuChin Pak 

Listen, Sarah is usually in bed at 9:30, but on the rare night you can get her out. She wants to go hard. She wants to go karaoke after a full night out. It’s quite a shock coming from her. She is the most fun at a party hands down. And she’s like a, she’ll kick your ass, so Sara, what’s going on in your life? How are you? I haven’t spoken to you in a minute.

Sara Sohn 

I know what I know. I mean, we’re here just doing the everyday routine, Monday through Friday, Saturday and Sunday too that’s a good point. Lots of things with the kiddos. They’re older now. So Chad, I don’t know you yours are still a little bit young, younger. So I don’t know what that looks like these days for you. But for me, they’re starting to take up a lot of time. A lot of my personal time, which I’m not really excited about.

SuChin Pak 

What do you mean, the older they get, the more time they need?

Sara Sohn 

Yes.

SuChin Pak 

I don’t know. Maybe you’re doing it a different way. I am like the older they get, the more strangers they become. I mean, is that not what’s happening?

Sara Sohn 

I feel like there’s a lot that we’re being involved, if they want to all of a sudden have a big sell with their friends, then we have like put that up for Ukraine. And there’s just a lot of these things that take up a lot of time. I don’t know why I keep saying yes to these things. I need to start saying no. When will I learn that lesson is a good question.

SuChin Pak 

I don’t know.

Sara Sohn 

So there’s a lot of that. And then the podcast, which has been so fun to do with Chris and we do that once a week. And that’s taking a lot of my time now.

SuChin Pak 

Yes. So Being Bumo like one of the taglines of the of the series is your life does not end here. It’s about parenting. And I always, whenever Chris says that line, I laugh out loud every time, I’m like some of your life doesn’t. Let’s be honest.

Sara Sohn 

Yeah, there’s definitely a shift is what I like to call it, a bit of a shift.

SuChin Pak 

That’s right. But you know, you guys talk about not only parenting on the show, but you talk about just life.

Sara Sohn 

Yeah. I mean, we talk about the things that are happening on the week, what we’re thinking about, what’s going on in the world. But really, I think our main focus is parenting and how we’ve evolved and how we’ve changed from before babies to lots of baby time.

SuChin Pak 

Alright, so let’s get into some of our add to carts now. As some of you listening know, are ready. You know, when Ku and I sit down, we don’t share our add to carts before so I have no idea what you’re bringing. You have no idea what I’m bringing. Especially because I just added all my things this morning. So you definitely don’t know. And then we always like to start the show when we have guests to ask you know, like, what kind of shopper are you, Sara? I actually don’t know this about you. I’m all ears.

Sara Sohn 

Okay, I think the last few years have changed. I either go super cheap, like just get the cheapest, the cheapest, you know, version of that or super high. I don’t really buy middle stuff to be honest, is like it’s not good enough. It’s not. But then you’re paying for mid-level quality, you’re paying too much for it. So either go cheap, like buy everything in bulk and Costco, Walgreens, or like, I go fancy and like buy, like stay at the nicest hotel we can that year, I kind of like that.

SuChin Pak 

I can see that. And that’s like that speaks to sort of like, yeah, you’ve got this like very glamorous side of your life. But then you also have a very practical side. I think being a child of immigrants, but also like, you’re like, what do they call it when you were an immigrant in Guatemala, you’re also an immigrant here. Is there a word for that? There has to be.

Sara Sohn 

I’m like, I don’t know, like a double first generation immigrant. In Guatemala. I’m a first gen. And in the US, I’m a first gen and I’m so glad you brought that up. Because a lot of people don’t think I’m a first gen. They think I’m a second generation. Right? Because I speak fluent English. I don’t have the accent and Spanish. And I’ve, just like assimilated quite quickly. But I’m a first generation immigrant here.

SuChin Pak 

I mean, like I said, you have you been first generation twice. You’ve had that lucky.

Sara Sohn 

So fun to not fit it into culture. Super fun.

SuChin Pak 

wait, I have to give a shout out to your sister, who still lives in Guatemala. She has family there. She has a business there.

Sara Sohn 

She’s taking care of my parents there. She’s raising her own children there. It’s a whole thing but she you know, I left right after high school so my ties to Guatemala were just up until high school and after that I’ve never lived down there again. I’ve been in Korea or in the United States. She’s been there her entire life. So she feels Guatemalan.

SuChin Pak 

When you go to her Instagram, wait, shout out. What’s your Instagram?

Sara Sohn 

She’s a chef, and she’s doing vegan food, a lot of Korean vegan food, but just vegan food in general. It’s called namu.foods and Namu means wood or tree and Korean or plant.

SuChin Pak 

When you look at her, you’re like, that is Sara’s sister but she’s Guatemalan. I love bringing that up, because it just brings me so much joy. She’s like, the most gorgeous, the most talented. I mean, the both of you guys.

Sara Sohn 

And she doesn’t want to leave Guatemala. Like, I want it to leave. But she doesn’t.

SuChin Pak 

And she has a family there now. Yeah, I think it’s great. Okay. So okay, so that’s the kind of shopper you are. Let’s get into it. Let’s get into our add to cards. Sara, since you’re our guests, I’m going to start with you. And then we’ll just you know, ping back and forth. Now, Sara, you have added a book called permission to come home reclaiming mental health as Asian Americans by Jenny T. Wang, PhD. So Dr. Jenny.

Sara Sohn 

Do you follow her? I think you do.

SuChin Pak 

I feel like you have mentioned her. And that’s why a follow her. But I can’t say that I’m so good with looking at posts. So tell me what this is about?

Sara Sohn 

Well, I found her during the pandemic. And I felt like I was just having meltdowns day after day, just overwhelmed, couldn’t handle just the simple day to day. And she came in with just so many words of encouragement and hope, but while deconstructing the immigrant experience, and she’s also like a PhD, so you trust her, like, you know what she’s saying, you know, she studied it. And then she shares so many of our personal anecdotes as well. And I’ve just been falling over the past two years. And she finally released a book this month. And so I went and bought it, and I maybe like two or three chapters in. And it’s so good. I mean, I think this is kind of up your alley, which I’m, you know, which I think you will really enjoy. I mean, anyone and she focuses on the Asian American experience, which I’m not Asian American, per se, necessarily, but my kids are. And so I’ve just learned so much from her.

SuChin Pak 

Yeah, I mean, it says in this description, it’s offering readers the permission to question, to feel rage, to say no, to take up space to choose, to play to fail and grieve. If that isn’t a list of the past two years, then I don’t know what it is. I love it. I mean, I love that. I mean, it’s crazy that there’s even a book. Mental health and Asian Americans, you guys. Mental health is not in our vocabulary.

Sara Sohn 

Even up until last year, I was like don’t say that, you can’t talk about that. Just shove it down.

SuChin Pak 

Yeah, why does your mental need to be healthy? You know what I mean? Like, who has this time for that? But I love you know, and I also love, I like processing these kinds of things in books, more than any other format more than TV, audio. It’s something about a book, you can put it down after you read a paragraph or a chapter. Walk away. You can, you know, sit with it as long as you need to, underline it. You know, everything else moves too fast for this topic. I think a book is for me, the choice format.

Sara Sohn 

For me too. It’s given me language, because I have all these feelings and I’m trying to understand it but like I don’t know how to express it or articulate it. But Dr. Jenny does, and then I can just learn that and take that.

SuChin Pak 

This just reminded me recently. I was do you know about; do you know this thing called the feelings wheel? I’m so glad I’m talking to someone who’s exactly like me. I’m gonna drop it in the chat. I watched one episode of Brene Brown’s new show Atlas of the Heart. And she talked about identifying being very micro about identifying your feelings. Can you click on this link? So I started to research I’m like, feelings wheel, I don’t even know how many, I would say over easily over 100, somewhere between 102 100 feelings on In this wheel, and she’s like, when you ask most people to sit down and name feelings like what are the different feelings that you are familiar with? We can generally she said something crazy, like four to six things like mad, sad, frustrated. I can’t even.. But she says, and she’s right. You know, there are so many nuance to feelings. And when you’re feeling something, the first thing to say is I’m angry, but you may not actually be feeling angry. You may be feeling let’s go to the feeling wheel, Sara, you may be feeling disillusioned. Maybe you’re feeling exposed. Or maybe you’re feeling provoked. Provoked is really resonating with Sara today.

Sara Sohn 

Oh, resonates a lot. I love this chart.

SuChin Pak 

So this chart is something that I printed it out. And I’m talking to my kids about, as I’m doing it, you know, because I parent myself along with my child, as we all do, because we don’t know what the eff we’re doing.

Sara Sohn 

I’m so glad you normalize that. Because that’s what, even just simple things like, some of these kids have these extravagant birthday parties. I’m like, but I’ve never even had a birthday party like that. Do you know what I mean? It’s weird.

SuChin Pak 

I, you know, my friend who I have a friend and she’s like, amazing. Everybody needs to have like, over the top friend where a birthday is a celebration. And there’s like, goats and trains and circuses and helicopters.

Sara Sohn 

All the princesses are there not just one, but all.

SuChin Pak 

All the princesses are there. And she said, like, you know, sometimes you’re talking to a friend and they say something and you’re like, huh, I would take that as an insult. But I know you love me. She said something like, you know, I really love how you deprive your children so that they can discover these things for themselves. And I was like, you’re right. I do. Let me tell you, I made a very conscious decision that I will be depriving my children of a lot of things because I’m not going to rob them the pleasure of sitting in business class, you know, at their first job that’s paying for it. You’re not flying business with me, missy.

Sara Sohn 

You’re being a good parent for that. Absolutely.

SuChin Pak 

You’re not getting a toilet that washes your butt and dries it. Where do they go from there?

Sara Sohn 

If you take your daughter to Paris for their 10th birthday? Where are they going for their 18th birthday?

SuChin Pak 

I was like, oh, no, is that what you’re doing?

Sara Sohn 

It’s kind of confusing to be honest. But like you said, some of these things, I’m experiencing them with my children as I raise them, the emotional but also just all the other things. Because we didn’t have that we didn’t grow up with any of this.

SuChin Pak 

Again, high low baby that’s your brand you know, sometimes you can, you know, luxury and then sometimes we got to buy bulk honey, because that is life. Okay, I’m going to show you one of my add to carts. Go ahead and click on it.

Sara Sohn 

Yeah, these are up your alley.

SuChin Pak 

what Sara is looking at is a fisherman sandal made out of I don’t know, some sort of fabric that’s Bejeweled. It’s hot pink. It’s made by a designer, the designer brand Marni, and it’s $950.

Sara Sohn 

But they’re offering 10% off. So that’s something.

SuChin Pak 

Is it though? So I looked at these and I said, I would love to have these feel like my summer vibe. You know, they’re fun. They’re functional. I could wear them with hiking socks. And I feel like I could get away with it. And so, but there is no way on God’s green earth. I’m paying $950. So what I did was I was like, can I make these?

Sara Sohn 

Oh, I love that you went there.

SuChin Pak 

And knowing if you know anything about me, I have never made anything in my life. Like it doesn’t have been. I’ve made but you’re right. I’ve made babies. I’ve birthed babies. Other than that, that’s my DIY project. It just hasn’t happened. And one of the reasons why, besides all the reasons why, I’d have patients, it always ends up looking like crap. Is that I have toe thumbs. I don’t know if you’ve noticed.

Sara Sohn 

But you guys talk about thumbs a lot.

SuChin Pak 

Because I’m very self-conscious about my thumbs. If you notice, on my social posts, like if I’m holding something I’m hiding my thumb. I was looking at my thumb and I was like, it’s like seven strokes of a nailbrush wide. Like, look at your thumb. How many strokes of a nail polish brush, across your thumb?

Sara Sohn 

I mean, some but not seven.

SuChin Pak 

Seven to nine. Do you see my thumb?

Sara Sohn 

It looks like a totally normal thumb.

SuChin Pak 

It’s not a totally normal thumb. My thumb is the size of most people’s toes. Now I bring this up. I bring this up because I’m a woman of the pupils. But also, doing little crafty things and holding things is hard when you have toe thumbs.

Sara Sohn 

So it’s not that you don’t want to do the project. It’s that you can’t.

SuChin Pak 

I can’t and I do want to do it. So what I did was I purchased some jewels. And I purchased a fisherman sandal from Zara. Now these are just taped on. So the jewels may fall off. But this is my faux Marni, DIY. Are you kidding me? Do you want me to make you one?

Sara Sohn 

Yes, I’m a size seven and a half. I want my own pair. I will send the sandal. No, I’m very proud of you despite the thumb thing. You’ve succeeded my friend. You’ve succeeded.

SuChin Pak 

I do have to admit my very small thumbed child, well, right now they’re taped on because I wanted to see the placement of the jewels. And then I got super glue. And so I’m going to super glue them on. My daughter Zoey. She’s very crafty and very artistic. has been helping me with this, helping me scatter the jewel was on my DIY fisherman sandal. This is This is also why I don’t do DIY. How long have I had these tapes, jewels And this glue still in its package on open months. I’m gonna get to it. But I’m also probably not going to get to it.

Sara Sohn 

But someone’s not here yet. So you still have some time.

SuChin Pak 

I have so much time. And so that’s, I’m adding to cart. This new version. DIY version of me. I don’t know how long she’s gonna be in the […]. And I’m trying to really embrace my toe thumbs as they are, you know, and I’m okay with that.

Sara Sohn 

And they work fine. You’re doing the project. It looks beautiful. And you saved yourself $900.

SuChin Pak 

Yeah. $900 plus, I mean, I don’t know how much these were but they weren’t that expensive. And so I’m gonna be rocking these. Maybe even this will motivate me that I will finish these sandals before our episode comes out so that I can post it on our Instagram. All right, let’s get to one of your add to carts. Let’s do the canned sardines. Go ahead, Claire and drop that into the chat as if I don’t know what a canned sardine looks like. But I want to get to your canned sardines. And I can’t wait to hear what you do with canned sardines. Are you going fishing? This is a wild planet, wild sardines and extra virgin olive oil.

Sara Sohn 

Well, there’s no other explanation, except that we’re getting old. And I want to number one, reduce the amount of preparation when it comes to cooking. And earlier you said that I’m a good cook, and I retired from cooking. If at all possible. Open the can and eat your protein. It’s supposed to be like the one of the best ways to get protein, fish oil and minimal amount of work. So the sardines lately have been very popular and we’re just getting older and I just don’t want to cook all the time. So we do a lot of, we just have that for lunch almost every other day.

SuChin Pak 

Like your children are eating canned sardines?

Sara Sohn 

Sometimes they are. They’re salty. And this cans actually not very salty, which is nice, which is why I keep purchasing this one and this is the one I wanted to share and it’s on Amazon, it comes in a pack. And another reason why I like this specific brand, like she doesn’t believe me, but I’m serious. I’m gonna send you a pack.

SuChin Pak 

I don’t know if I can could eat that like just out of the can like you’re not putting like a little bit of onion or like salt, lemon. You’re not putting it on a toasted bruschetta?

Sara Sohn 

I mean, we have done some of that. But no.

SuChin Pak 

You’re taking chopsticks to a can of sardines, and eating it like a cartoon penguin.

Sara Sohn 

Absolutely. Like I said, there are bones but you’re actually supposed to eat them.

SuChin Pak 

It’s not gross.

Sara Sohn 

It’s nutritious. I mean, it’s a very small and thin and tiny you can’t really see them.

SuChin Pak 

So I’m just imagining you gorgeous Sara’s. I’ve told you this. I’ve told our friends this is maybe the most beautiful person I’ve ever seen in person. You know, there’s some like we live in a world of filters, where you don’t actually know what people look like. Yeah. And in real life. You’re one of the most beautiful people I’ve ever encountered. Thinking about you eating a can of sardines over your kitchen saying how many cans? Just one can is doing it?

Sara Sohn 

One like every two days not every day. At least twice a week.

SuChin Pak 

It fills you up?

Sara Sohn 

It fills me up and I’ll have maybe avocado toast on the side or like a small salad.

SuChin Pak 

the thing about Sarah’s add to carts and in general in life. We all very much rely on her add to carts because they’re tried and true. Do you know what I mean? Like your recipes are tried and true is true. Oh, low maintenance. Get it all in one pot. That’s what I meant by you’re an amazing cook. She’s efficient. The food is good. It’s on the table, minimal dishes involved. So I’m going to do, I’m going to add to cart my husband’s post yesterday on Instagram. So I have been talking about this book. The book is called my life growing up Asian in America just came out. I sent all my besties a copy. And you know, it’s a book about its 30 essays from Asian Americans all walks of life talking about their experience, right? And it’s really interesting to me, because my tendency, of course, is like, oh, I’m gonna send it to all my Asian American friends. Right? But Kulap was mentioning like, I should be sending this to all of my non Asian American friends, all of my white friends, all of the folks that also need to hear these stories and maybe have never considered stories like this. I am married to a White person. So this book is out and it’s been I’ve been you know, there’s copies laying around my mike is like, what is this? And he picked it up and then he wrote this post and I’m gonna read some of the posts here. So when my children half Korean half Jewish were born. I recall so many people from both family and friends commenting on their eyes. Those are Mike’s eyes. I never thought much about those comments until reading my life growing up Asian in America, which features a vulnerable and poignant introduction by my wife. The book features incredible essays to put it bluntly, there are times as white people we must shut up, listen and learn. And that’s what this book is for me a chance to learn. So oh, you know, that’s a little bit of I mean.

Sara Sohn 

It’s amazing. Shut up and learn.

SuChin Pak 

So I read this the next morning when I woke up and I was like, oh my goodness, you know, I had so many revelations, right? I never even thought about all the times that I was in a Korean grocery store with solely my daughter and all the Korean […] coming to the carton being like Look at her eyes. They must your husband, he’s American, he has to be American. Look at her eyes. Like she’s so beautiful. Look at her eyes, you know? And I was like, yeah, look at her eyes, she looks like a doll. You know, and I never thought about like, wow, you know, my whole life, all I’ve ever wanted was someone to say, look at your eyes, they’re so beautiful. Tape on them, you know, done everything to do it. And then and then to see it from my husband’s point of view, who, you know, is now kind of experiencing this for the first time, in so many ways, having children coming out of this time period in the fast past few years, where we’ve talked about our identity in ways that have been so revolutionary, and so loud, and him sitting in the middle of it. And there have been times during the past few years where I’m like, I have a white husband, like, I have what how do I share this experience that I’m feeling? What how do I go to the feelings wheel? Where on the feelings wheel is there? I’m a Korean immigrant trapped in a world that you know, where’s that feeling? Right. And so just to see that, it was just a big add to cart for me.

Sara Sohn 

God, I love that story so much. I mean, obviously, he loves you so much. And he always thought your eyes were beautiful and probably didn’t even think about it twice.

SuChin Pak 

None of us do, it’s something that we you know, we never.

Sara Sohn 

We think about it. You know what I mean? We’re on the outside. But he didn’t I love his posts so much.

SuChin Pak 

I thought about I was like, Oh, wow, I should. Why am I only sending this to all my Asian American friends? Yeah, like, that’s crazy. Everyone should be reading this book. You know, everyone can learn something from it. But anyway, yeah, so that was my add to cart. Okay, we’re gonna get to one more add to cart from you. All right. So you have added to cart bliss block star daily mineral sunscreen. You can buy it lots of places. This is 1.4 fluid ounces for $23.49 at Target. Tell me about because, man, I have so many different kinds of sunblocks I have somewhat different kinds of templates for my kids. I have different sunblocks for me. My face, my thumb. I mean, everything gets a different sunblock.

Sara Sohn 

I do too. Do you have the pump sunblock. That’s another good one. It comes in a pump format, but it’s like really big. It’s by the entrance of the house and the kids can just do like a final pom, put it on their arms and legs and maybe do like a final layer on their face. The one pie bliss the blocks, this one’s for me, it’s not for the kids. Because it has like a tinted like no foundation but it has like a bit of like a tint. And so then I feel like I have sunscreen and a little bit of like a cover up so it’s just like an easy go to get out of the house kind of sunblock and they sell it everywhere. It’s very moisturizing and just like an easy mineral sunscreen.

SuChin Pak 

I mean it’s SPF 30, it’s also a mineral sunscreen which I love Yeah, and I think I almost exclusively use mineral sunscreens you know sometimes I won’t but and mineral sunscreens, it says invisible. Is it invisible? Like can you does it really melt in because that’s I think the hardest thing about mineral sunscreens is finding one that melts in it’s not going to be transparent like a chemical sunscreen. But does this one melts pretty good.

Sara Sohn 

I think it does. But again, I think what’s helping it is that it has a tint like a bit of like a foundation tint. So that makes it feel like it’s like you’re wearing a little bit of coverage.

SuChin Pak 

Yeah, I find that the any mineral sunscreen that I have with a little bit of tint does for some reason, blend in easier

Sara Sohn 

And this one the reason why I also was very curious it’s actually the formula it’s made in Korea. And so Korea is like way up here with sunscreen formulas they win true it’s overall like a really good one.

SuChin Pak 

I would love to do one more add to cart, my friend, because I love this. I am adding to cart Florence and the Machines new album called Dance Fever. Have you heard this album yet?

Sara Sohn 

I have not. So I’m so happy we’re bringing it, I love them.

SuChin Pak 

This album is, it’s definitely a certain musical style that we all come to love from Florence and the Machine right? So it’s ethereal. It’s you know, kind of dreamy, but it has this like dance beat to it. And I wanted you to hear just a little bit of the first song on the album, which is called King.

SuChin Pak 

You can I interpret the song in so many different ways. And so it just had so much meaning for me in this moment in time. I want to read you just a few of her lyrics from like my favorite verse, which is, but a woman is a changeling, always shifting shape. Just when you think you have it figured out something new begins to take, when strange claws are the scratching at my skin. I never knew my killer would be coming from within. I am no mother, I am no bride, I am king. You know, Florence, she’s not married. She doesn’t have kids. She’s 35. And she said in the press that she is looking at, you know, this time in her life as like, what’s next for me, like I have this yearning to be married and have kids and have this like simple life. But I am king. I’m a rock star, you know, I am a creator, I’m going on tour. And so, you know, she is grappling with this. And so out of this grappling is this album, and I don’t care if you’re 35. I don’t care if you’re 46. Like this is a grappling that we as women at some point in our lives have to come to terms with and continue to come to terms with, you know, we talk you and I talk so much about like, what is this life? Like, this is not what I thought it was gonna be when I was 25. Where do I go from here?

Sara Sohn 

What are some of your conclusions to that? Like, where are you in that?

SuChin Pak 

Well, I mean, I think that’s why this album and this song in particular, you know, when a woman is a changeling, always shifting shape? And just when you think you figured it out, right, and that’s kind of, I’m like that. I want to say hour to hour. I’m not even talking about year to year, decade to decade, Sara, I’m talking about right now at one o’clock, I feel this way. And then, you know, in an hour when my kids come home, I feel a different way. And I’ve been living in this kind of like hour to hour shaping, you know, shifting shape, which is also why you know, I go on this annual. I call it annual because I’ve done it twice international trip with a girlfriend. The Paris trip and the Paris trip has nothing to do with Paris. Yeah, I mean, it can be a trip to anywhere. Yeah, but it’s just my time to process who I am. And like to let go of everything that requires me to be there. And only focus on what I want in the moment. Because we don’t really honor that. I think we’re just coming into trying to balance that. And so, I don’t know, like this album, what she’s talking about. I so remember that at 35 being like, I know, I have to have kids and I know not have to but I know I want to have kids. I should have kids. I should get married. But then there’s a part of me that’s like, but I want to live in New York. I want to go to Paris. I want to like watch Netflix till 4am with a giant Costco bag of Doritos. You know and get up and all I have is brunch. Do you remember that?

Sara Sohn 

Yeah. I do I have those moments to do you think like these? This back and forth? It’s just part of like what we’re supposed to be feeling and will eventually find a little more grounding or it never stop it never. It’ll never stop. And that’s the point of the song.

SuChin Pak 

I mean, that’s the point of the song. I mean, that’s the point of everything. I mean, it will never stop. I have to remind myself there is no end. I mean, they talk about it in Buddhism and they talk about and a lot of spiritual philosophies is like death and rebirth, death and rebirth of our conditioning of our thoughts of all of that. And when it’s great, it’s gonna come when things aren’t great, and then again, it’s gonna be great and I think that coming to really accept that, there is a much more softer way to hold life than with like the death grip that I like to hold life when..

Sara Sohn  

Well, I was going to ask you if like the trips that you were saying that you were taking the two trips you took, if there were, if you had revelations during those times that really are still clear today, or was it just clear during the trip?

SuChin Pak 

No. Looks like life changing, you know how some people like, do drugs and they like, you know, they go to […], you know, with the shamans, like, that’s my Ayahuasca shaman, you know, like, whatever I learned from there. It’s a total shift. You have to do it for more than a week, which I think for moms of young kids, it’s like that, in and of itself is, and it’s funny, I was actually talking to Claire before I left for my last trip. And she was like, Are you excited? And I was like, no, but that’s the whole point. No, is I have to go, like, I go because I know that this is good for me. I know, it’s good for my family. It’s maintenance. But it’s also very clear boundaries to myself, and my kids, and my husband, and my parents that this is me. Like, I need space. And I have to take up space. And I’m never excited about going. I’m always nervous. I always think I’ve gone too long. So I’m sitting here with all of these doubts and this pressure, but can I still get to Paris? And can I make it through the entire 10 days, and do that sit there with that. And I always come away with a greater appreciation, a greater understanding a greater sense of gratitude for everything in my life, but also very clear visions of like, Oh, I’ve let this boundary that is so important, and integral to who I am, be breached. And I have to build that wall back when I get back. And you don’t even know that that’s been breached when you’re there. Because like you say, of course, you’ll do a bake sale, of course, you’ll do a birthday party, of course, you’ll do X, you want to do those things, you know, for me, it takes me to be out of my physical every day to understand like, at what cost, but what do you think?

Sara Sohn 

I definitely think I need to work on boundaries. I do take, like you said, time to just go and do whatever I want to do. And I’m 11 years into motherhood. So I’ve I, after a few years, I realized that I needed that too. And again, like you said, it doesn’t need to be Paris. And it doesn’t need to be something extravagant. But like, for me, a lot of it was the cooking because so much of the food piece of the family, just like the whole thing is on is on me. And I also want to I want to cook meals that are healthy for the kids. I don’t want them to process food all the time, which is fine or, or bread all the time. So I did feel really burnt out with that for a while. And there was after the first year of the pandemic where I was cooking all day, every day, but also realize it’s part of my coping mechanism to be honest, like, just to be busy and like I remember productive. I’m like, I’m making breakfast, but then now I’m cleaning up breakfast, but also thinking about lunch. And then so yeah, I do remember like for Mother’s Day that after that first year of the pandemic, graciously my family’s like will cook for you on Mother’s Day. And then I didn’t cook that entire month. And I know that that is like a big thing for me in my day to day. Some of that happened that way for me where I was like, I don’t have to do it all, all the time. And I have to be okay with that. Yeah, and if they eat cereal the entire month, they’re gonna be okay.

SuChin Pak 

And the thing about that pressure, it is you but it’s not you. It’s motherhood. It’s cultural. It’s all of the above because I feel the same way and then you know, my parents just moved you know, four minutes away so they’re around a lot. And it just so happens every time my mother comes over. It’s hot dog night. Doesn’t matter. It’ll be the one night I’m like I can’t and my husband knows how to cook two things, mac and cheese or hot dogs. One kid gets mac and cheese the other one gets hot dogs. They both love mac and cheese hot dog night. And sure enough, my mother will be knocking on the door. My mom will say under breath like sausage again. And she thinks that when she’s not here, which is why she’s delivering this food. My child is eating hot dogs like she is like I know I’ve heard her talk to my brother and be like all she feeds her children are hot dogs, hot dogs and mac and cheese. Okay, that’s it for our show. Tell everyone where they can find you on everywhere.

Sara Sohn 

Yeah, well, every Tuesday, Chriselle and I have a podcast. So you can find us there, Being Bumo on Apple and Spotify. And then I’m on Instagram at @mamasohn.

SuChin Pak 

And of course, everything that we talked about today will be on our Instagram at Add to Cart pod. Follow because otherwise, you might miss some of this stuff. And these gems, they don’t come around very often. You know, we’re only lucid once a week for these podcasts the rest of the time. I can’t promise a thing. Give us a call while you’re at it. We love hearing your voice. We have some giveaways finally coming up in June 833-453-6662. And until next time, Sara, can’t wait for our DIY sandal party.

Sara Sohn 

Let’s do it. Thank you for having me. I love your pod so much.

CREDITS  

ADD TO CART is a production of Lemonada Media. Our producer is Claire Jones and our mix is by Ivan Kuraev and Veronica Rodriguez. The music is by Wasahhbii and produced by La Made It and Oh So Familiar with additional music by APM music. Executive producers are Kulap Vilaysack, SuChin Pak, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Wittels Wachs. Be sure to check out all the items we mentioned today on our Instagram at @AddToCartPod. Also, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast.