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Description

Many Americans don’t feel like the politicians they elect are creating the laws they want, including common sense gun regulations, paid family leave, and universal health care. Why don’t our policies reflect the will of the majority? Andy explores that question with former Minnesota Senator Al Franken, who explains why we don’t have the elective democracy we think we do and gets emotional reflecting on his time in Congress during the Sandy Hook shooting.

Keep up with Andy on Twitter @ASlavitt.

Follow Al Franken on Twitter @alfranken.

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Check out these resources from today’s episode: 

• Learn more about what Al is up to (including a couple more comedy tour dates): https://alfranken.com/
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For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com/show/inthebubble.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Al Franken, Andy Slavitt

Andy Slavitt  00:18

Welcome to IN THE BUBBLE. It is June 1st. And this is Andy Slavitt, your host, I hope you had a nice Memorial Day holiday, we went to see our oldest son, Caleb, have his 2020 graduation from college. Imagine that like two years later, mom and dad finally get to see him walk across the aisle, and he got to see his friends, which was neat because he and his friends, basically never most of them never got a chance to say goodbye to one another. Because if you recall, back in 2020, in the spring, it was right around spring break time, and kids were kind of all over the map, and many of them didn’t come back. So good for him, good for us. I hope you got to do some meaningful family time over Memorial Day. And we’re back. And it’s June. And we got a lot of stuff to process. We’re gonna process it today with my friend Al Franken. And one of the things that I want to explore with Al here, which is that a lot going on in this country. And we don’t feel very good about our government, putting up laws that support, respond to us. Whether your issue is school choice, whether your issue is just some common sense gun regulation. If you are believing in those things, more universal health care, I probably had the list, paid family medical leave, I’d add to the list, then you are in the majority, at least according to polls, and in the case of common sense gun laws, you’re in the vast majority, 90 plus percent. Yet, you’d ask yourself, How can we be in the majority? And not have the laws that reflect the will of the majority? If this is supposed to be representative democracy? And the answer is explore with the owl, particularly as the Senate is constructed and as Supreme Court justices are picked out of the Senate or ratified out of the Senate. And Electoral College depicts the President is we may not have a representative democracy that we think we do. We have a republic; we have a set of rules that govern this republic. But I really want to get into with Al today was when he was in the US Senate. And you had an event like Sandy Hook. And you had the will of the people so clearly expressed. Why couldn’t we get anything done? Why are we prevented from being able to essentially support the needs of the country as a country evolves? You know, guns were one thing in when the second man was written in the 18th century, guns are quite a different thing today. And we got to be able to react to the times. And yet we’re not. So there’s a lot of things causing us to think about this question about our democracy and how badly we want it. The midterms, which we’ve talked about in this show, the January 6th insurrection and those hearings, which we talked about on this show, the Supreme Court, which I think is you’ll hear from Al today, the majority of which was appointed by a president that didn’t get the popular majority of the country. And the Senate, which comes from, as we know, equal portions will stay to have small populations in those big populations. And as a result, you get a set of factors here, which would cause us to say, at least are stumbling blocks. Yet on top of that the people who then make the laws want to stay in power and put up laws that make it harder to vote. Those are challenges as well. It’s a good conversation with Al, we’re good friends. He’s here live, which is kind of interesting and fun. He gets a bit emotional. It’s an emotional set of topics. That’s okay. You know, I think he is feeling pretty hard, particularly watching The Shooting being in the Congress during Connecticut shooting, having small grandchildren, four of them. By the way, if you’re in the East Coast, on Friday, June 3rd, go to Red Bank, New Jersey. He’s going to be appearing there at a place called Count Basie theatre at 8pm, get your tickets. Lana and I just I recently in Santa Barbara, when he was out here appearing, we saw the show that it’s a really it’s a treat, it’s a treat. It’s really good. So if again, if you’re on the East Coast, it’s called the Count Basie Theatre in New Jersey. All right, let’s get Al walk in the door.

Andy Slavitt 

The great pleasure of having my friend and former senator, my own former Senator Al Franken here live and in person in Slavitt studios.

Al Franken 

Yeah, in beautiful deck city is what I like, but you have beautiful home, but mainly decks.

Andy Slavitt 

I think in California, you can spend your time outdoors I hear.

Al Franken 

In Minnesota people have decks, but not this much decks. Because this it’s really cold. For a lot of the year in Minnesota. But decks make a lot of sense.

Andy Slavitt 

We’re both Minnesotans, kind of not there now. But we’re both Minnesotans but we do spend time on decks. Last time you were on this show, and I’ve been on by the way, Al, if you don’t know him, he’s also a famous podcaster. And I’ve had the pleasure of being on your show a few times.

Al Franken  06:16

I think your if not the most frequent guest at least in the top two or three or Dahlia Lithwick.

Andy Slavitt  

She fantastic. Well, it’s a great program. I’m sure everybody listens to our podcast also listens to yours. And you promised not to eat during my podcast, which I appreciate.

Al Franken 

But you ate. And I told you not to but then I caught you.

Andy Slavitt 

No, you explicitly told me that to you.

Al Franken 

It was very tasty cream cheese with some kind of salmon.

Andy Slavitt 

Candy salmon. Which is addicting in my defense. And I want to get into what you’re up to now. But it’s impossible not to start with the events of last week. The shooting in Uvalde, Texas, which is hard to talk about.

Al Franken  07:12

It’s now as we’re recording us a day ago. Yeah, it’s one day. When I’m out here in California with my daughter, and she has two kids. And just being with a parent of little kids who kids were in elementary school, it was the expression on my daughter’s face and you know, brought me back to Sandy Hook, obviously. And I was in, 2012 Ted Cruz was elected in November of 2012. And about a month later, Sandy Hook happened. That was 20 kids, five adults. And, of course, I didn’t see Ted till he was sworn in on January 3. And the first thing he said to me, he didn’t introduce himself. He came up to me said anybody who’s for the assault weapons ban, and, I was a co-sponsor of the assault weapons ban. Anyone who’s heard of the assault weapons ban is gauged in sophistry, sophistry, as a T-word. Which means knowingly deceiving with a fallacious argument. So I said, okay, Ted, how am I engaged in sophistry? He said, well, Clinton’s own justice department did a study on the assault weapons ban and concluded that it didn’t work. And I said, you know what, no, it didn’t. You’re talking about the 96′ Clinton Justice Department study. And what it said was, it actually looked like it did work. Gun violence went down like 6% and 95′. But it was only the law was passed 94′ and said, there just wasn’t enough data to draw any kind of statistically valid conclusion. And then he got mad. He said, well, you just read the report. And I had, but I went back to my office and got my judiciary counsel, I tell him what Ted had said, he went, no, I said, I know. I should go get the relevant language in the report. Put it on a one sheet, I’ll carry it around. And next time I see Ted, I’ll show him the language. So the next day I go to the floor. And I say, yeah, a little bit across the room. Like oh, Ted. Remember Jack Benny, big Jack Benny. Oh, Ted. He kind of comes over to me, I said yesterday. You came up to me and said that anybody who was for the assault weapons ban is engaged in sophistry. And he said, no, I didn’t. And that’s pretty much everything you have to know about Ted Cruz. And yet, in our hearings, he actually brought that up, that study up and said, and framed it exactly the same way.

Andy Slavitt  10:25

Describe what the mood of the Senate was after Sandy Hook, and what you felt was possible or likely to happen and what was going on amongst the senators.

Al Franken

I guess I was naive, I assumed that we would pass something significant. I felt like assault weapons ban. Least going into the hearings, I saw every Republican was against it. I remember Ted also holding up a thing I don’t know what you call the arm of assault weapon that you know, and he said, This is just a piece of plastic. Why is this so important? Well allows you to hold it in such a way that you can murder more people. I was furious. I couldn’t understand why we couldn’t put a maximum on number of bolts in a clip. I couldn’t understand that. I couldn’t understand why background checks, mentioned to me, I couldn’t believe that didn’t pass,

Andy Slavitt  11:30

Not to get too graphic. But I think it’s important. They can’t identify these kids because of what the bullets shot in such rapid succession. In the same place due to these kids, these kids in Newtown, were missing whole limbs and their faces were unidentifiable or they had identified with their parents by DNA.

Al Franken  12:01

Yeah, basically the history of this is, in 94′, the Congress passed an assault weapons ban. It was a 10 year ban. And then in 2004, it wasn’t extended. And because it wasn’t extended, the gun manufacturers just went nuts. And the whole gun industry started becoming about let’s make these more lethal. Let’s design these, let’s I think what the kid used in Sandy Hook was a Bushmaster and it was made for killing people in close quarters. That was the purpose of it. I’m so sorry. I met with the families; I don’t understand people like Ted Cruz. I don’t understand. I don’t understand these people. It’s during the hearing this like Lindsey Graham. Like Lindsey when he would like paint this picture of like the housewife having defend against the small like I remember turning to my judiciary counsel and saying like, okay, I’m gonna say something, don’t laugh. The only way I can vision what Lindsey is describing right now is a zombie apocalypse. That’s what he’s describing. And this nothing’s gonna happen, right? Nothing’s gonna happen.

Andy Slavitt  14:03

Well, these events speak to me a little bit with January 6, Al. Because this fantasy of this armed insurrection to overthrow the government or defend yourself as government which you heard from years of why people need to bear arms?

Al Franken 

They’re gonna do it, they know how to do it anyway, by suppressing votes, and then pick Secretaries of State and attorneys general there. They don’t need to do an arm insurrection, so maybe we should just let them know that.

Andy Slavitt 

In some good news, trump’s Georgia Secretary of State candidate didn’t win.

Al Franken 

Isn’t that amazing Raffensperger just think about it. The people Georgia, the Republicans in Georgia, at least people voted in the Republican primary said, hmm, let me see. So he was honest. What do you think? I think you’ve heard me say this is that When Trump said I just need you to find 11,780 votes, one more than I lost by did he think Raffensperger was actually going to do that press conference that was Raffensperger gonna go up, I’m Brad Raffensperger, Secretary State of Georgia and the total, the election has been changed and the winner by one vote is Donald Trump, Trump I guess thought, if he threatened him or something they would do that.

Andy Slavitt  16:02

Look, the reason I asked about the Senate, Al, is because at least is related to this issue. And I think we got plenty of other stuff to talk about that. Hopefully, some of it will be less emotional, maybe some of it’ll even be funny. But people feel like the least representative part of our government kind of the link, where you say, the vast majority of the country believes in at least some level of choice for a woman, the vast majority of the country believes there ought to be limits. Even if we support the second amendment to people’s ability to access guns, what those guns look like how those guns operate, who should be able to get access to them, just like with the car and alcohol and everything else, cigarettes, everything else is regulated. The vast majority of the country, left and right, I think believes those things. And on a period of time, when you’ve got a majority in the House of Representatives, it feels that way. And a president that feels that way. It is this inability for the Senate to represent what Americans are feeling. At least that’s one element of that.

Al Franken 

You can argue that we don’t have a representative democracy in this country. The six three court made that decision.

Andy Slavitt 

How many of the people in that in that majority were appointed by a president that wasn’t elected by a majority of the country?

Al Franken 

If I’m correct, it’s five. Now, to be fair, two of them were nominated and by W. After the election, he did win by popular vote. But he did get in the first time not winning the popular vote. So the Electoral College and Trump, of course, lost by 3 million votes, the first time then by 7 million, except the one Georgia by one vote.

Andy Slavitt 

And you could argue the court picked itself when it chose to stop the Gore v. Bush.

Al Franken  18:04

Yes, that’s right. And Merrick Garland, which was unprecedented, and it was complete, if I may say so […]. And the reasoning they would get I was on judiciary then? And I don’t know if your listeners remember this, but I sure do, and I’m sure you do. It was the Biden rule. Remember? And McConnell kept saying, Well, it’s a Biden rule. He gave him a sleeve. And he said, that version election, presidential election that year? Well, you can’t confirm. […] and it wasn’t if you pull the line out of the speech, but in the speech, Biden said, this was in June of 88. He said if someone retires, and the President without consulting us, nominates a conservative, we won’t take them up. Because member this would be someone voluntarily retiring to be replaced, an older Republican or conservative being replaced by, but if he nominates a moderate, or if he consults with us, then we will take him up. Now that was part of the speech and I read those in our meetings. The Biden rule wasn’t, there was no Biden rule. And then Lindsey gets up in this one of those same meetings that you hold my words against me. If a Republican is president, four years from now, and vacancy comes up, we will not take them up. We won’t take them up. Ginsburg dies in late September. Coney Barrett has sworn in, I think eight days before the election. And then the Senate isn’t democratic. The 50 Republican senators represent 45% of the population?

Andy Slavitt  20:15

Well, look, this goes to another point, which I think people would say, I don’t know, rightly or wrongly, that the Republicans fight unfairly and win and the Democrats don’t, or aren’t as effective at it. But I want to get someplace else first, just in the structure of the US Senate. There’s some constitutional theory that the Senate supposed to break the passions of the populace.

Al Franken 

That’s right where the tea cup or the saucer.

Andy Slavitt  20:46

Right, which is an analogy that probably no one gets anywhere, because no one uses tea cups and saucers.

Al Franken 

Yeah. But like, if you had a coffee cup, saucer under that, it’d be the same. Let me explain, they’re both hot liquids and they don’t have to be but then probably be on glass. I’m over explaining. The point is, it was a compromise. They gave every state two senators and you know; it was for the smaller states got the senators. That’s the only way you get the Constitution ratified. And that’s what it was. And that’s what it is. And that’s the way it’s gonna be.

Andy Slavitt 

But I think America sits here today and unlike the Feds 10 years ago, where you described yourself and all the rest of us, were right there with him as to some degree, believing that this was such a horrific occurrence, that if anything, was going to change things, that was the opportunity, and then what’s going to happen today? I think what feels even worse about this is just as awful. But it’s also now just as expected, and nothing is expected out of the US Senate or state houses or governors, because there is this sense that for whatever reason, the will being the will of the majority of the country, for over a decade now. We’re not talking about a whim that just happens on one poll, but big, big consistent will of the of the country, for 90% of people who support background checks and who support red flag laws. doesn’t stand a chance and places like the US Senate.

Al Franken  22:33

And then the opponent says, well, that’s not going to stop everyone. Of course not.

Andy Slavitt 

But doing absolutely nothing. Is not the only alternative to stopping everyone, is it?

Al Franken 

No, no. And I do believe that I understand that maybe […] are trying to work with a couple Republicans to find something. And that’s I think that’s better than I hope we don’t put a messaging bill out there. Knowing that it’ll go down. You know, I’m sick of that.

Andy Slavitt 

You know, you don’t recommend forcing a vote on something we know is not going to pass. You think there’s potential. And look, Collins apparently and Romney apparently are open to conversation, whatever that means. How do you read between those lines? Do you think there’s really a potential for bipartisan dialogue?

Al Franken 

You have to hope so, you need 60. And you just have to I mean, you just Murkowski made me and you know, the usual suspects.

Andy Slavitt 

And what’s his name for Pennsylvania again?

Al Franken

Tomi, yeah, that was that was a shock when that didn’t happen. But background checks and then you know, there’ll be people again will say it was like everything we were gonna say, yeah, yeah, yeah. But let’s stop as many as we possibly can. And so that at least we’re making an attempt to stop this discourage this little kids. I hope we don’t do a messaging bill.

Andy Slavitt  24:47

Flash around to another topic that’s near and dear to your heart. Roughly two years ago, George Floyd was murdered in Minneapolis by a police officer. In a video that we’ve all seen multiple times, it’s obviously a community, that’s your home. It’s a community that we lived in for 17 years. Now, if you could reflect back now two years, and that event, what’s happened since, what you think has changed? What it’s done to Minnesota?

Al Franken 

Well, I think if you asked people around the country, about Minneapolis before this happen, you’d say, oh, that’s one of the most progressive cities in the country, Minnesota is one of the most progressive states and in many ways it is, but the disparities in the state are among the worst in the country.

Andy Slavitt 

Educational, health wise.

Al Franken 

And homeownership, economics. In some ways, it’s because the White population does extremely well in education. And they’re all these fortune 500 companies there and but like the rest of the country, after World War Two, when GI’s came home with a GI Bill, Black soldiers couldn’t buy homes because they were redlined. The neighborhoods didn’t have the kind of transportation that White neighborhoods had. They built. I94, right through Frogtown, dividing up black neighborhoods, all this stuff that’s happened all over the country. Our police force in both Minneapolis and St. Paul don’t have very good record said all. This was a cop who felt that he could get away with killing someone on camera. Because he was black. I don’t remember the name of the book; I want to have the author’s on Washington Post journalistic who’ve written a book about George Floyd’s life. And it is a book about systemic racism in this country. And it exists, it’s there.

Andy Slavitt 

You can’t say that it’s textbook anymore in a lot of states by the way.

Al Franken

I mean, but it’s undeniable.

Andy Slavitt 

I just want to put a flag on that issue, because I want to come back and talk about what I see as some of this conservative backlash.5

Al Franken 

you know, the backlash was after George Floyd was murdered on this tape, when there were demonstrations and Black Lives Matter. People said, Yeah, okay, we there’s systemic racism in this country. And now there’s been a systematic attempt, by the right to say, oh, no, Democrats teach this thing in kindergarten called Critical Race Theory, which is just a big lie. Younkin lied his way to being governor. There’s no critical race theory, taught in K through 12. And never was I mean, he said on the first day, that I’m Governor, Critical Race Theory stops being taught in our public schools. And it’s just like, okay, you had a Carlisle, he had a Carlisle? You do research in Carlisle? Right? I mean, they kind of do research. And I think they could have done the research. And seeing the critical race theory is academic and academic discipline that started in the 70s. To respond to why hasn’t there been progress since the civil rights bills passed in the 60s? It’s an academic discipline. It’s taught mainly almost exclusively in law school, in some graduate school, maybe in some education schools. But my God, it’s not taught in K through 12. And you guys know it. You don’t care ever about whether you tell a friggin truth or not?

Andy Slavitt 

Well, it’s got us talking about it. I mean, they’ve got us talking about it. I mean, that’s we’re not talking about police reform. We’re talking about their issue, critical race theory. And this goes leads right up to the events in Buffalo. Tucker Carlson, great replacement theory,

Al Franken 

you know, yeah, it is that we’re bringing in immigrants to replace White voters. They’ll be obedient to Democrats. And this is meant to scare the bejesus out of people, including the shooter in Buffalo.

Andy Slavitt 

And, you know, that kind of stuff. I used to think of White nationalism. I think that was extremism. I used to think that was the thing that people said that wouldn’t say out loud that maybe they believed it, but it wasn’t acceptable. And you certainly, you maybe have to hunt somewhere on the dark web for it. But to turn on the most popular cable program, and the most popular cable channel in the country during the most popular hour are people watch television, if a young man is able to do that, to following extreme thought he’s following mainstream, acceptable thought. And so the step to that kind of shooting in Buffalo just got one step more acceptable.

Al Franken  30:39

Yeah, I mean, this is a dark period. And the fact is that over the last I don’t know, over the last several months, I’ve just looked at our politics, and I’m really worried, obviously worried about the midterms. I’m a Democrat. But this is different. I mean, the Republican Party has changed in authoritarian party, and that it’s dangerous. And I’m kind of hoping that, for example, the January 6 hearings, will open people’s eyes, hopefully that’ll show what this was, which was that the President United States was plotting to overthrow the government. I don’t think a majority of Americans, I think that will mobilize people. I understand that registration in Georgia, as difficult as they’ve tried to make it is way up.

Andy Slavitt 

Yeah. But does it feel like that picture of what you just described of the Republican Party? Why is that still appealing to so many, there’s something going on in many parts of this country..

Al Franken 

Is resentment. It’s I think that Trump’s dad is a real estate developer in Queens. During queens, you hate Manhattan. And you hate and you resent it. And I think he has tapped into a lot of resentment in this country. And Republicans are just trying to narrow the electorate as much as they can to those people. And you know, Mark Elias is trying to fight this and we’re trying to fight this is why these, and also, you know, I have a political action committee, Midwest values back, we’re going to be fighting to make sure that Secretaries of State and states like Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania are elected, that are Democrats who actually believe that we should have a democratic elections and who believe that the last election was not stolen. You have a guy, right for the man, what’s his name? […] In Pennsylvania, who is kind of a nut, who is convinced the last election was stolen and wrote a did you see the thesis he wrote, he was in the military, and very often the military after, I don’t know, 10-15 years in the military, your master’s thesis and his, he wrote about 20 years ago. And basically, he was saying that the military is gonna have to take over, at some point, because liberals, the liberal elites are taking over and it’s gonna have to be the military. Just won the nomination in the primary, like, overwhelmingly. In Minnesota, Steve Simon, who I think you know, is our Secretary of State. The Secretary of State, of course, administers the elections there and all these other states, the woman who won the Republican Party there actually at the convention showed a cartoon, animated cartoon of George Soros operating puppet strings to manipulate Mark Elias our election. At a certain point, I’ve laughed and I’ve cried I mean, What? Really? That’s who you know, that was a winner. That one was to have the oh yeah, the Jew billionaire is pulling the puppet strings. He’s the puppet master for the democratic election lawyer. Didn’t you know that?

Andy Slavitt  34:49

Well, and here’s the thing if you think that in from a political standpoint, running against absurdity would make your job easier, yet it feels like this whole Steve Bannon notion of forgive my language, you know, flood the zone with […] and confuse everybody.

Al Franken

We never realized, like the wisdom of that. That’s so smart.

Andy Slavitt 

I guess. But you still keep fighting. I want to close with you, and you need to get back to your family. And you’re out here seeing your wonderful daughter and her family. We’ve got food you can take back if you’d like. Do they like Mediterranean? We’ll find out. But I think people would be interested. Because so many people follow you. So many people ruin it for you during these judicial hearings. So many people have seen you talk incense. And I think people take a certain amount of notice of someone like you feeling despondent and hopeless or angry. Sure. Let’s put it this way.

Al Franken  36:09

I don’t feel hopeless, despondent about our future. I’m very worried. And just gonna keep fighting. And I don’t want anyone listening to this, to think that this taken the fight out of me or stick the fight out of you at all, it just the stakes are so high right now. And let’s, you know, it’s just appalling, though. It really is appalling.

Andy Slavitt 

I’ll tell you, I found myself for the time period that Paul Ryan was trying to overturn the ACA and Donald Trump became president was trying to overturn the ACA, and other things going on, then I will say, and I don’t talk about this a lot on this show. But I find myself fighting hard, and I felt the energy in the country moving in that direction. And up until recently, I have felt like a lot of people. But I just want to turn politics off for a while. Because it’s been distasteful. Stuff that good doesn’t make me feel good. It’s larger than life. And there’s forces you can control. Focus on the small focus, you can focus on people focus on things we could change. But I’ll tell you, the last couple weeks have been a wakeup call for me. If I need to get re-energized, about why it’s important to have people like me in the arena, just as one person supporting people who are trying to put a stop to some of these very undemocratic things, some of the six ended up hurting children, some of these things that end up taking rights away from women, some of these things that make it easier for a person of color to get beat up by a cop, then me being tired, is going to be part of the problem. And so I’m gonna have to decide to figure out how to not be tired. Because this is going to be a constant fight. And I know that if we want things to change, one thing I know for sure is you have to do something about it.

Al Franken  38:17

Yeah. On the other hand, there’s times where you have to go like, I will go to listen to some music. I’m gonna watch some comedy. I’m going to play, it’s okay. I’m gonna do something in my community has nothing to do with politics. Absolutely. You know, I always tell people, six year old knows how to use a microwave oven. And a six year old can teach a four year old to use a microwave oven. So you can go door knock, and they’ll be fine.

Andy Slavitt 

It sounds like great advice for grandfather.

Al Franken 

You think the comedy helps you say.

Andy Slavitt 

What gives you joy? What’s making you smile in this stage of your life?

Al Franken 

Well, I have four grandchildren now. And you know, I like three of them. I want my grandchildren. What I actually like here now because I’ve been living in New York mainly I live in Minnesota, New York and LA but mainly in New York where I have a six year old and a three year old. And here I have one that’s 29 that’s why we’re here this week. No one’s having a nice birthday and one who is five. And they in the morning. They got a little earlier than me and they jump in bed. They jump on top me in bed and lay on top. That’s all I do. And I just can’t believe what an amazing that just is the greatest joy I have is that physical and I just and I’m worried he’s turning nine. He’s gonna be, 13 he’s not gonna cuddle.

Andy Slavitt  40:07

Do you still sing to him? Pretty soon he’s gonna jump on you and break your back. So I think he’s gonna be wise.

Al Franken 

Actually, the nine year old doesn’t do that, or about to be nine. The six year old does aggressively try to hurt me. That’s his sister.

Andy Slavitt

Well go spend time with them.

Andy Slavitt

Friday conversation coming up, I think it’s a can’t miss. It was actually I will say having just gotten through it. One of the best conversations I think I’ve had in a long, long time with two amazing people. You know, the objective was to talk about the economy and financial crisis of things going on with gas prices and things like that. But it got really deep and far reaching and emotional and the kind of conversation I like, where it was really, really challenging, but also, I think, really, really helpful. There’s a lot of complex factors going around the globe, which are impacting our 401 k’s and our ability to buy things at the grocery store and so forth. But a lot of the conversation ended up being about the values that are reflected in how you think about money, with just really terrific conversation. That’s Friday, next week, general Gustave Perna. We got many other good shows coming up. I think you’ll enjoy them and hope you enjoy the next couple days and tune into a conversation on Friday.

CREDITS

Thanks for listening to IN THE BUBBLE. We’re a production of Lemonada Media. Kathryn Barnes, Jackie Harris and Kyle Shiely produced our show, and they’re great. Our mix is by Noah Smith and James Barber, and they’re great, too. Steve Nelson is the vice president of the weekly content, and he’s okay, too. And of course, the ultimate bosses, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Wittels Wachs, they executive produced the show, we love them dearly. Our theme was composed by Dan Molad and Oliver Hill, with additional music by Ivan Kuraev. You can find out more about our show on social media at @LemonadaMedia where you’ll also get the transcript of the show. And you can find me at @ASlavitt on Twitter. If you like what you heard today, why don’t you tell your friends to listen as well, and get them to write a review. Thanks so much, talk to you next time.