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In this special 4 part series, we’ll be highlighting The Coalition to Advance Public Safety (CAPS), a coalition of organizations working to intercept and prevent violence in communities across the U.S. The coalition’s work builds on years of knowledge of public health, gun violence prevention and the particular needs of different locales, as well as the lived experience of community members on the ground. With these tools, CAPS creates and maintains community violence intervention (CVI) ecosystems around the country. In our first episode, Travon Free sits down with Joe Kim from CAPS’ Health Alliance for Violence Intervention and Freedom Jones from LifeBridge. They chat about what it means to implement a health-centered approach to combating violence in Baltimore and what lessons can be applied to other cities in the U.S.

Thank you to the Coalition to Advance Public Safety, and in particular Health Alliance for Violence Intervention and LifeBridge for making today’s conversation possible. To learn more about CVI, and the individual organizations at work in this coalition, visit https://www.capsinitiative.org.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Travon Free, Joe Kim, Freedom Jones

Travon Free  01:14

Hello and welcome to Good Things, I’m Travon Free, and thank you for joining us for a special four part series with the Coalition To Advance Public Safety, also known as caps. CAPS is a collective working to expand and strengthen the community violence intervention ecosystem by providing resources, technical support and sustainable infrastructure to intervention programs in cities and communities most impacted by gun violence. CAPS is made up of four national support organizations who partner with community violence intervention teams in Baltimore, Maryland, Indianapolis, Indiana, Newark, New Jersey and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and they’ve just announced partnerships with four more cities. Today, I’ll be talking with Joe Kim, the associate director training and technical assistance at Health Alliance for violence intervention, or HAVI, HAVI has been a significant force in combating violence in Baltimore by combining the efforts of medical staff with community based partners to provide safety planning and trauma informed care to victims gun violence. Also joining us today is Freedom Jones, the director of community violence intervention at LifeBridge health, a health services provider centered on improving patient health preventative services and educational programs. Joe, Freedom, welcome to good things. Joe, I want to start with you. What I noticed throughout learning about the Health Alliance for violence intervention is, you know, it’s really a survivor first organization, and it meets survivors where they are, at least, that’s how I see it. And so how would you explain the work you guys are doing?

 

Joe Kim  02:50

Yeah, thanks. I feel like it’s happening on a few different levels. You know, we’re a national organization that’s membership based, and really our strength, I think, is in our membership. And what we’re trying to do is really highlight the incredible work that’s happening on the ground in communities, in partnership with hospitals, and highlight some of the learnings that we kind of get from, you know, those folks, and try to highlight some best practices, and along the way, you know, we focus on advocacy, promoting the field, some best practices, some standards, you know, around the quality of work that’s happening. And really uplifting. I imagine we’ll come back to this quite a bit. But really the strength of the frontline workers in this field, and the sustainability, the wellness of of their work as such a critical part. And so that’s, you know, one piece I think we are really trying to continue to explore and advocate for as it’s a, you know, really a critical piece.

 

Travon Free  04:03

No, that’s amazing. It’s really remarkable what you guys do and freedom to pivot to you a little bit when you hear that violence is the leading cause of death among black boys and men. How do you define that violence?

 

Freedom Jones  04:14

The leading cause of death? That is the definition. You know, it’s, wow, that’s a pretty amazing statement that, to me, is defined as a huge problem for black and brown folks as well as our country, and it should be the number one focus in terms of providing a what I consider cure for a public health approach to doing, this intervention, and I call that urgent.

 

Travon Free  04:48

Right, absolutely now, like we know that violence, you know, kills 1000s of Americans each year and and sends more and more to the hospital with life threatening injuries. And of course, you know, the black indigenous communities are disproportionately affected. And why don’t you think we treat this as a public health crisis?

 

Joe Kim  05:11

I mean, I mean, I feel like part of it is if we’re looking at the history around community violence and historically, how it’s been addressed is, you know, through conventional approaches, which was highly, you know, criminal justice focused, right that it was a punitive kind of strategy for addressing community violence. And I think a lot of what we kind of, how we operate in both healthcare and across our systems are still kind of attuned to that, and unfortunately, a lot of that is steeped in a lot of structural racism, a lot of implicit bias that folks experience in healthcare. And I think there’s these really dangerous kind of stereotypes of survivors of community violence that they’re either kind of pick perfect victims, or they’re like someone who deserved it, or like was asking for it, and I think both of those are really problematic. And because of that, I think a lot of folks tend to chalk off survivors or victims of violence, because somehow they were responsible for their own injury, right? And I think it’s easy for folks to then just kind of like, dispose of or try to erase their stories and their experiences within the healthcare field. And, you know, let’s not it’s because they’re black and brown folks, right? It’s because they’re poor folks. It’s because they’re folks that, you know, often are the ones marginalized from our systems that it’s easy for us to as kind of systems as a whole. You know, continue to forget about those folks.

 

Freedom Jones  06:49

I think the root cause of things often is not addressed. It’s a lot of work that needs to be done and unpacked around getting to the root cause of a lot of areas of racism. So, you know, it’s interesting, because I think the reason that LifeBridge healthcare, which is a huge healthcare system, is really doing this, is because they do a survey, you know, an annual survey, and that survey is, you know, healthcare survey. And in Baltimore, one the top issue for folks here in Baltimore was violence, and so that’s how it became, you know, a part of the health concern for healthcare system.

 

Travon Free  07:28

Joe, I mean, you’ve been, you’ve been doing this for about a decade now, working in communities. You know, in youth, when it comes to violence and violence intervention, has it always felt like a revolving door of violent injury in communities to you?

 

Joe Kim  07:43

Honestly, I feel like in my experience, both as a direct service provider and now from you know, kind of working with partners and in different communities that are experiencing violence, I think there are definitely a lot of similarities, right, like, you know, the kind of, like concentrated poverty, the lack of resources, those kinds of things happen in a lot of communities around the country. And as a result, one of the symptoms of, you know, community violence exists in a lot of similar ways. But, you know, I feel like it’s important and something that I think it’s lifted up through some of the work that’s happening is that violence is beyond just like community violence, right? Like the violence that survivors experience through healthcare systems, from law enforcement, from, you know, medical bills, you know, like, it’s all violent, right? And a lot of the work that violence intervention folks do on the ground is intervening in a lot of those things. And it’s not always just the like, trying to stop the beef. Sometimes it’s helping someone navigate insurance so that they don’t lose their home, right? Like, which is another kind of level of like, structural and systemic violence, and so, you know, I feel like the work is really complex in that way, and the work that folks do on the ground is really complicated and comprehensive, so I feel like that’s, you know, I think we have to, like, blow up the definition a little bit around the violence that folks experience and the really complicated work that folks are doing on the ground to help mitigate or intervene.

 

Freedom Jones  09:26

I think when we are pushing for this issue to be a public health issue, it really helps destigmatize some of the layers that are connected to violence, because, like Kim said, it is so intertwined. There’s so many layers. And so, you know, the revolving component can’t be isolated. You can’t fix one part of violence without connecting to the other part of the whole all the things related to the cause. So I you know, that’s why being able to look at this work in that way allows us to address it, co partnering, comprehensive, holistic, so that we can connect with other places that need to work together to address the revolving.

 

Travon Free  10:22

Absolutely, and you know, both of you guys can feel free to answer this, but more geared toward the work you’re doing. Joe, what do you? What do you think, from what you see is missing when it comes to what young people need to do, more than just survive when it comes to this violence, but to actually like, thrive beyond it. Like, what do you, what could you? What do you think is something that is just not there for them?

 

Joe Kim  10:46

Yeah, I mean, I think this goes kind of back to what I was sharing earlier that, like, I think our approach used to be this kind of, like, attitude shift, right? Like, if we just get folks to, like, change their mind about community violence, then all of a sudden structural racism is solved in our communities, right? Like, the reality is that, like, it’s a community effort, right? Like, if we are really trying to get to the root causes of things, the trauma, the compounding trauma that folks experience in communities, is not going to be solved by one program or by one super case worker, or by one, you know, hospital. It’s really the conditions, the material conditions on the ground for folks have to shift, and that’s got to include everything from safe housing to access to education to access to, you know, employment opportunities, and so I feel like that’s, where our work is looking towards right like and I think freedom,spoke to this, that the kind of breaking down of silos, the really deep, intentional partnering across systems to create really better social nets and supports for folks that you know kind of end up in these situations. You know that I feel like that’s really what it’s gonna take.

 

Travon Free  12:14

We’re gonna take a quick break, but we’ll be back with more Good Things.

 

Travon Free  13:13

Yeah, I mean, listening to to what you guys are saying, you know, it’s got me thinking, you know, the way we talk about and the way we frame these problems can also contribute to how much help and resources we have around them, right? So, like when you think about why we wouldn’t treat a gunshot victim the way we treat a heart attack victim like, why don’t you think we see because of the effects of the trauma that goes along with those experiences? You know, we we treat victims of violence like people we see in the hospital and throw them right back on the street as if nothing happened to them but a heart attack victim. You know it comes with all of these this post, care and things that go along with trying to better your life and sustain your life. Why do you think that is and do you think it’s something that can be changed with how we we reframe the conversation around these kind of things?

 

Joe Kim  15:55

I feel like as a couple of things come to mind. One is, I feel like our healthcare systems are kind of wholly unable to effectively meet the needs of folks that are victims or survivors of community violence, right, like we just like we don’t got it right. We don’t have the resources. We don’t have the capacity. Anyone who works in any healthcare system will tell you that they’re maxed out, right? Like, they’re just like, we’re by we’re so far from meeting meaningfully the needs of folks that are, you know, survivors of community violence. So I think there’s one is that that’s like, that’s on the healthcare kind of system as a whole, that is just like, we’re not very good at at treating a whole person, right? Like, if you have mental health issues, you go down the hall, if you need a foot doctor, you go, you know, to this building. But like, the reality is, when we treat people, we’re treating an entire individual. And we don’t really have a system of care that can address that right, that can, like, look at an entire person and say, the head’s connected to the body, and the thing that’s happening in your gut is connected to maybe some of the trauma that you right, that we have no system of understanding that. And then again, even more so for black and brown folks, or folks that feel where people feel like they’re not maybe even deserving of the care, right? Like they don’t even deserve the dignity of treatment, because they somehow just, you know, they, like, did it to themselves. So I think both of those compounded, you know, kind of is what we’re looking at.

 

Freedom Jones  17:34

Yeah, it’s so interesting, because the healthcare system that that I’m in, you know, took on a lot of street teams. They have two hospital respondent programs that are really comprehensive. At bedside, gunshots, human trafficking. We use the same approach around gunshot victims with we do elder abuse. And so it’s at bedside, credible messenger intervention. And to do that you in order for folks to really see this as a resource. To see the hospital structure I’m saying, to see that as a resource, there’s a lot of education that has to go on within a hospital system. You know, heart attacks are things that people have been talking about in value for a long time. You understand, because it has affected not only black and brown, but it’s affected so now you have gunshot victims that are now affecting other their violence is unfortunate that it is. It is affecting a lot more now. So there’s a lot of education in the healthcare system that I have to do to help them understand the root causes why this work is done. A whole lot of education for from doctors to nurses to head of hospitals, so that that bridge between what this issue is and the care and continuity of service begins to happen. And so let me tell you when life bridge took on all these street teams. I mean, we have, probably we will have 16 men and women who are on the streets doing this work, working in partnership with our hospital responded. You know, hospital staff respond to programs, and that’s a huge lift, and it’s not most hospitals don’t have the robust street team. So in order for them to understand how, this process, this health care, public health approach should happen. They have to understand this work from not only a bedside intervention, but from a policy place, from a legislative place, from a financial so now we’ve had almost this year, a 50% reduction in gunshot victims coming into the hospital, because, you know, we’re doing some good things. They see the dollar savings in that. Because now the effects of whether the emergency teams don’t have to do their attention can go to other things. So they’re seeing, okay, what’s going on here, so that opens up an opportunity to educate people about this public health approach to violence, to educate folks around the the root causes of some of this. So a whole lot of education, and that is happening because, one, we have a hospital Violence Intervention Program in two hospitals, and leadership in a healthcare system sees the value of how this is impacting everybody.

 

Travon Free  20:31

Absolutely no, that’s a great answer, and Joe to piggyback on that. Could you share a story of what hospital based intervention care looks like in action, in the work that you do, or how you would, how you see that playing out, or if there’s a unique experience that you’ve?

 

Joe Kim  20:48

Yeah. I mean, I might pitch it back to freedom. I mean, I could

 

Freedom Jones  20:52

Yeah, I have two teams, two hospital responder teams, one at a trauma center and one at not a trauma center, but more of a communal hospital. So in the trauma center for us, we see it as a intervention with credible messengers who’ve been there, done that, meeting at bedside, and what we consider a golden hour at bedside, you come in with a gunshot, you understand that’s not life threatening or life threatening, because you know eventually you can meet at bedside, but you come into a hospital with a gunshot and you see somebody who can meet you there, who has been through the same scenario with you, who can then connect with you about keeping you safe first, keeping your family safe, because we have a street team that can go to your house and make sure there’s no potential increased violence. And we can also be outside of the hospital, because we know your people might show up at the hospital because they’re concerned about you, which could escalate more violence in the street. And most of all, we can provide wraparound and case management with you while you heal, to help you make better decisions, because that’s a golden hour. I can share a story I met I had been on the streets in as a director of a safe street site here in Baltimore and this is a story I had to put my finger in a brother who was shot okay on the street, because he was bleeding out. And so the, you know, the team got there, they took him to the hospital. We had a we had a street team, responder team at the hospital. They met him at bedside, and his brother was he was hurt, so, you know, about two or three weeks later, because I was there. He knew me on the street because we were,  I was a street team person. He knew me I was there for him. I could go to the bedside, talk to him, and we could both cry, okay? And I can, show, give him a mirror to look in that mirror and see himself to say, you know, what can we do better? How can we do make better decisions? What do you need? How can I help you heal? How can I get you back to the doctor so that you can get the appropriate medicine that you need to heal? Because sometimes people don’t want to come back to heal. And this brother looked at me and cried and changed his life. Do you understand? And that is the only reason, I believe, is because we had something in common, and could use that hurt, that pain, to reshift a thinking, to do something different, so that we don’t get back into that same scenario again, and these so that, and that’s a true story, so this, so that’s the way this work is done. Although the men and women who meet at bedside may not be on the street, because that is not a norm. They’re sent. They have the experiences of, I may have been shot, I have been there. I’ve done that. Let me use my life to help you but they are the connection to the shift and the change with a plan, with a strategic, organized life changing, walking, holding your hand, helping your family, keeping you safe, change Your Life Plan. That’s how a credible messenger or a violence responder bedside intervention happens.

 

Travon Free  24:27

That’s an incredible story. I mean, I couldn’t imagine having to stop somebody’s bleeding with my finger. I’m one of those people who, when there’s too much blood, I might faint a little bit. So you’re, a much stronger person than me when it comes to that kind of thing. And I grew up in Compton, and I saw a lot of community violence, a lot of it. And to hone in a little more on the regional aspect of the work you’re doing Freedom, you you think about a place like Baltimore, a place that so many of us. In this country and globally, you know, our perception of is has been influenced by things like the wire, right? Things, you don’t go to Baltimore and experience the the myriad of textures of a place like Baltimore. You experience, you know, the David Simon version of Baltimore, for better or worse, right? And and you think about what you see on social media. And there’s like accounts devoted solely to the violence in Baltimore. And what do you think you know because of the perceptions of a place like Baltimore? How do you think it being somewhere people think of as the most dangerous city in the country and all these things? How does that impact or influence the work you do?

 

Freedom Jones  25:43

Well, I think that is changing. There’s been a lot of media now Baltimore is leading the country now with its, you know, big ups to the mayor’s office, Big ups to the to the street teams. There’s a lot of good work happening in Baltimore, so that shift of what Baltimore is really about. We’re seeing now as like, oh, let’s check in. Let’s look to see what they are doing, because they’re now leading a lot of folks, a lot of people in the country, with its violence reduction strategies and plans and so, you know, let’s talk press as a whole in this work, because that’s something that that is often, you know, not really looked at negative press. Bad Press misconception can hurt someone so much so they can lose their life. You know, we struggle here. You know, we’re looking at how we offset some of that negativity by doing some some creative things, and I’ll share a little later, but that impacts the safety of staff. You know, perception in media could be used as a tool to hurt or can be used as a tool to help. And so what we need to do, and we have, we’re trying to do it better in terms of a marketing strategy in this work, and help people understand that we need to highlight the success. The wires is the is the deep, dark, you know, that’s, that’s the but we need to hire the good work. We need to, we need to highlight the positive stuff that is happening. You know, the things that people are doing every day, risking their lives, the street teams who are intervening in the numbers are going up. So we’re not doing that enough, and we’re trying to get better with that. So the impact of social media, the impact of perception, the impact if we don’t strategically develop the good stuff and market the good stuff, then that definitely takes an effect. And, you know, it spreads. And so I think one of the things that we are doing better is starting to highlight the positivity. You know, we’re looking at digital violence response as a whole. We’re developing digital violence response. And so we’re partnering with with some good folks, like street pause to deploy with a call center based on an escalation in a social media situation, and do violence prevention on the street. But what I’m saying is that we recognize that we have to flood with good stuff marketing strategies to express good stuff, to offset misconceptions and negativity. So what’s happening now? There’s a lot of people on the street saying, we’re proud to be in Baltimore, you know, we’re excited to be in Baltimore, because, we’re leading the charge.

 

Travon Free  28:32

Absolutely, I mean, and that’s, I think that’s exactly how you have to go about it, is, you know, you have to push back on that narrative and do it in the media, because that the media is such a powerful tool you know. We need to take a quick break, but we’ll be back with more good things in just a minute.

 

Travon Free  30:39

Joe, are there aspects of the media and social media and perception that you notice might affect your work in a certain way, that you would want to see changed or feel like you can use in a way to help.

 

Joe Kim  31:09

I think freedom named it in that then the narrative shift kind of strategy is it’s not just like for the funders, or it’s not just for Right? Like, yeah, I don’t know that as a field that we’ve done a great job of it, right? Because we just had folks kind of head down, like, kind of doing real community work, and we got an entire field of professionals that don’t want the credit, right? Like, that’s their MO is that they don’t want the shine, they don’t want their appreciation.

 

Freedom Jones  31:44

Do it.

 

Joe Kim  31:44

They just do it because it’s in them and. Yeah, that’s right, it’s purpose driven. It’s like, not about credibility or, you know, the accreditation, but we got, we have to get better at that. We do because the work that folks are doing in these street teams, that freedoms teams are doing is one, it’s highly skilled, really complicated, you know, work around kind of like assessing and intervening, and, you know, intensive case management, highly clinical, highly skilled work that takes a long time to really hone and do really well. And I think there’s lots of opportunities for us to be able to highlight some of that right, like there’s, there’s magic there that we don’t often talk about enough and there’s a lot of learning that I think we can take from, you know, some of the experience and expertise of the folks on the ground.

 

Freedom Jones  32:44

And it’s a beautiful, you know, I was really privileged to be a part of the, you know, Leadership Academy that, you know, in Chicago, and 31 different cities were in it. And, you know, it was amazing. But we did some work around common language, because we’re looking, you know, the White House, we’re because of the White House office with Greg and folks down in DC, we’re actually looking at, you know, how we share language to express the good stuff. So you’re not talking about the same thing a different way. So we’re bridging those gaps. And one of the things that is happening, like, we’re doing this podcast media, and they’re giving us the opportunity to talk about this from a shared language thing, from a from what Kim is talking about, the good work. So that stuff is happening. And like he said, the men and women who are doing this work see this as their life. It’s like, you know, the music industry, you know, I heard Erica Ford in New York, talk about this work, and Chico, they’re talking about this as an industry now, you know, because, you know, it’s not just a program, you know, it’s not a model, although we are using models to measure effectiveness and strategies to measure to be able to duplicate things that we know work and train for to become better. But this is an industry, and an industry. You have people who are experts the ground you understand and what the industry is now catching up with language to reflect what has actually been being done for a long time, and so with that being said, the men and women who have been doing this work for a long time, you know, now we’re able to explain a little bit about what they’ve been doing, because it’s their life’s work. It’s a new industry.

 

Joe Kim  34:36

And to that point, I think, and this is, you know, this is a whole nother topic, but research, you know, we, you know, our field has to do research in a way that I think honors those folks, honors the long legacy of community organizing really, that’s what it is. Community organizing, work and healing, work that folks have been doing for. Like, you know, 40 50, plus years and and now academia, science is catching up to it, right? Like, what folks have known for a long time is, like, community is healing, and we need, you know, kind of pure supports. And, you know, like those kinds of things that are like it seemed to be, you know, mind blowing new technical concepts, but that folks you know have been, have been employing for a really long time.

 

Freedom Jones  35:24

And the beauty, I love that the research thing, you know, that’s I we have to show validity, but the research shouldn’t change it, you understand, and we have to be extremely cautious, because, you know, we want to have policies that are this health care system, life is health, and I’m using this, I use the square peg in a round hole analysis. So this health care system took on all these street teams, right? We have hospital spawner teams, we have street teams, we have trauma teams, we have training components, we have healing spaces. They took on all these staff, and they’re all healthcare workers. They did not we didn’t know that the policies, the procedures, were not conducive to getting the work done. So if you don’t, if this healthcare system doesn’t change its policies, because some of the policies are not geared for black and brown street teams. So we don’t change the policies to reflect and to support the work, then it is not a good fit. So what we are recognizing, and it takes a strong health care system to be able to say, let me change my policies and my structure to fit this component.

 

Joe Kim  36:46

If I could share an analogy around that, that I heard that really stuck with me is that, you know, there’s been in black and brown communities, historical trauma with medical institutions, right? Like, without going into the hit, long history of that, that’s real, right? Like, folks in the community don’t like going to the hospital because they get treated like dirt because they’ve had negative health outcomes folks don’t come out sometimes, right? That’s a reality of the history of trauma. Their pain is invalidated. That’s right, all of that, right? And there’s, there’s plenty of research that kind of speaks to that. And, you know, I think a fundamental shift that I think freedom is talking about is rather than hospitals asking, you know, what can we do so that people would trust us again? Like, how do we improve public image? How do we improve our PR strategy? It’s the shift is, what do we need to do to earn that trust? Right? Like, what do we need to do as a healthcare system to be deserving of people’s trust? And that’s a fundamental shift in your approach. And I think what freedom is talking about is that transformation of the medical system to be more meaningful at addressing people’s needs.

 

Freedom Jones  38:06

With the you know, LifeBridge has a tagline, care bravely. And I tell them all the time, this is what caring bravely looks like, because , not a lot of hospitals will take 50 men and women who are on the streets because it is risky, okay, mitigating violence. So it is about caring bravely in action to help your communities know, we are co partnering with you.

 

Travon Free  38:32

I mean to talk more about you guys’ partnership, because Joe, you’re, you’re organizing with hospitals all over the country, you know, to make these changes and to, you know, try to create a standard of care, you know, for people. And obviously there’s going to be unique challenges and gaps in that, because, you know, there’s, it’s not a one size fits all approach. And so is that the sort of Genesis or strengthen you guys’s partnership? Is that kind of, what brought on that partnership is trying to create that standard of care across the country.

 

Joe Kim  39:04

I wouldn’t say, like, at least from, I think, from, you know, speaking on behalf of our organization, I feel like there’s something that we really, we gain from having partners like LifeBridge, like The folks in Baltimore, right? That we just get to talk about the great work that that is happening on the ground, right, like and we get to learn from the partners that are doing this work, and being able to share that with other folks that are starting off in their community. So, you know, there’s, I think there’s something there around the relationship, you know, that we, we worked hard not to just be like, let’s parachute in, drop off this training and dip out. But really, yeah.

 

Freedom Jones  39:48

No, this is a this is a partnership. So from on, for me, you know, when we became a member of the hobby, for me, I was like, Okay, this is great. And now I unders, I can speak for experience, what I’ve gained. So I’ve gained a collective consciousness. So there’s other hospitals that are in this network that I can connect with. There’s the training, which is the obvious, but there are policy groups. There’s different groups that different skill sets within the hospital structure, within a cvip community violence intervention program can join in the hobby to become better at talking with people in this field, doing the work I have used them because, like I said, although LifeBridge Sinai, they’ve been doing this work for a while, you know, but now I can say, help me talk to the leadership at LifeBridge, from what Hospital in this network has a policy that can help me change HR or help me connect with some nurses and doctors that can talk to some nurses and doctors who need to understand what this work is about. So there’s actual collaboration, there’s actual shared knowledge, this actual depth and statistical, you know, information, this is, this, to me, is a huge partnership. We have to organize and teach advocacy on the ground. So it’s about partnerships. I can go off on organizing another time, but that’swhat you call sustainability.

 

Travon Free  41:23

No, no. So that I that’s a great, great, great answer. Thank you guys. I mean, this has been such a great interview, and I want to be mindful of your time, and I have a few more questions, thinking about the work you guys do and the needs you guys have, independent of each other and you guys as partnership. If you guys had, you know, Genie in a bottle. You get one wish to get this one thing that, you know, like, if I just had this one thing that I could add to my work or my organization, it would, change so much. What is the like, the most important or most significant thing you both need to that would just further or help your work so much.

 

Freedom Jones  42:02

I know the answer for me. I’m very grateful. And I’m sharing this because about four weeks ago, I had a TIA. A TIA is what you consider a little bit of a mini stroke, right? And I have been doing CVI work, like many people in this field for a very long time, there are many people who start because they’re great at this in the street, they bring trauma to the work right up front, in the door. The one thing that holds us back from even doing great or greatness, is health, wellness and resiliency. You know, if I could ask for anything, I would ask for that to be on the forefront of any program, within the infrastructure of all programs, with people doing any type of CBI work. What does that look like? That means health, wellness, resiliency for public health workers is similar to what we say the police department has for is its people. You know, so if our team is seeing trauma and have too much trauma, they get to be on administrative leave with pay like other folks. So there’s a focus on Health Wellness and Resilience, so that our people can do greater good. That looks like changing some legislation, that looks like putting the dollars into health wellness and resiliency in systems that do this work, because her people can’t help people empty cups can’t give you nothing, so we’re making an impact. Be a little empty, but we don’t want to lose people to this work. I don’t want, I’m going to be the I’m challenging all people who are executives doing this work pour into you. I decided I want to be the example some a sister from LA who does this work, she said to me, freedom, don’t be the example of dying in this work. Be the example of living in this work, destress, meditate. I got a health coach. All my team going to exercise so I would suggest that we need to put the focus on that.

 

Joe Kim  44:25

Amazing I’ll triple down on that the front line. The front line is all we have right. This field does not exist without the front line. And we need to quadruple down on these sustainability of front line. The unfortunate reality is it’s a short shelf life for frontline workers, and that’s because they, every single day, are up against tremendous odds, and we need to figure out how to even those out as much as possible, whether that’s through pay equity, whether it’s through competitive benefits, whether it’s through mental health supports, you know, there’s so many things. One thing that stuck with me is a few years ago, we had Dr Ibram Kendi speak at one of our conferences, and he said three things that frontline workers need, is resources, opportunity and political protection. And I think that especially at a time where folks don’t necessarily understand or value the work of frontline workers. We need to protect their energy, their time, and support them, right? Meaningful professional development opportunities, wellness opportunities and like, this is, you know, I’m from California, so I got a little bit of an avocado toast in me. But we need, like, you know, we need yoga. We need, like, all of the things, right, whatever it is that folks that will help folks get to a place of more wellness, like, we need to be able to invest in those things and not consider it as like a bonus to the work, right? Like, that’s not a health benefit. That’s just to help you maintain and stay sane. You should be getting access to free mental health services that are culturally relevant, that are like those things cannot be additions to they have to be a core part of the work and plan for sustainability.

 

Freedom Jones  46:15

Yes.

 

Travon Free  46:16

Amazing answers. Thank you guys so much. Joe Kim, Associate Director for Community of Practice at the Health Alliance for violence intervention. Freedom Jones, director of community violence intervention programs at Center for hope. Joe, Freedom, thank you guys so much for such an amazing, informative interview. And we can’t wait to get this out to the world and spread you guys’s message and your work.

 

Freedom Jones  46:39

Thank you for doing it.

 

Joe Kim  46:40

Thanks for the opportunity.

 

CREDITS  46:41

A special thank you to the Coalition To Advance Public Safety for making today’s conversation possible to learn more about how they foster transformative CVI ecosystems and the individual organizations that work in this coalition. Visit www.Capsinitiative.org, that’s www.Capsinitiative.org, this series is produced by associate producer Donnie Matias. Our supervising producer is Jamela Zarha Williams, mixing and sound Design by Noah Smith. Steve Nelson is our SVP of weekly content. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, and Jessica Cordova Kramer, and please help others find our show by leaving us a rating and leaving us a review. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next week.