Tell Me What to Do

Fighting Over Faith

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Description

At its very core, religion is about shared beliefs. Those beliefs can vary widely — like between Judaism and Islam — or largely overlap — like with Baptists and Methodists. Either way, disagreements over religion can be some of the hardest issues to resolve. This week Jaime opens up about her religious journey from Judaism to Catholicism and answers questions from a listener who can’t agree with her partner about what religion to raise their children in, another who is struggling to come out as bisexual because of her faith, and a third who is fighting with her husband over what cemetery to be buried in.

 

FYI: Tell Me What to Do contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.

 

Please note, this show is hosted and produced by a team that does not have any clinical or other mental or physical health training. If you are having a health or mental health crisis or emergency, please contact 911. For non-emergency mental health and addiction needs, try https://www.samhsa.gov for national and local resources.

 

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For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit www.lemonadamedia.com/show/tmwtd

Transcription

SPEAKERS

Taylor, Jackson, Jaime Primak Sullivan

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:00

We interpreted the Bible the way it fit our needs. Because it would be weird to pull up to St. Francis with a goat and be like, where do we are we sacrificing it here in the back? Right? That would be weird.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Leave the animals alone. Do you have food? Can you get me out of here? One time I saw a woman that I thought was pretty well, I didn’t and I’m not. Tigers will tiger. If I knew in fourth grade God knew before that. Yet here we are with our shrimp cocktail. make a deal whoever dies first wins.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Hey, guys, you’re listening to TELL ME WHAT TO DO. I’m Jaime Primak Sullivan, your host. I’m so grateful that you guys are here this week. A couple of housekeeping announcements. One is Jackson finally got a microphone.

Jackson

It’s true.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

He doesn’t have to project from the other side of the desk anymore. And we have a special guest. For those of you that have been with me, especially for CAWFEE TALK but or if you just like know me at all, or if you I don’t know, know me, then you know that Taylor is here.

Taylor 

Hi. I’m back.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Anyway. So there’s so much going on in my head today. First of all, first of all, who would have seen this coming a tiger at Carroll Baskins tiger place, ripped off the arm of one of her staffers?

Taylor

Have you seen the show?

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

No. I will not watch that.

Taylor

It’s like my mother.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

I’m not gonna watch something where tigers are hurt or killed.

Taylor 

It’s not that. That’s the problem is that people think it’s one thing and it’s completely another thing. It’s like a murder mystery, for humans. She went, “wait, what?” she was like.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

I mean, wait, but doesn’t didn’t. Didn’t they kill a tiger?

Jackson  02:00

They don’t show I don’t think, but there are tigers killed.

Taylor 

Yes, but they don’t show it. And also, it’s like, that’s really not the story.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Okay, well, I know it’s Carol Baskin. killed her husband whacked him. But my point is that white people I’m speaking to you because I don’t only you stop doing this shit. Okay, stop. Stop thinking tigers are your friend. Okay? They’re not your friend. They are wild animals that you have created a once upon a time fairy tale. “Oh, but I raised it.” Bitch, we raised children. And they did you not see Mendez Brothers? What do they call?

Taylor 

Shawn Mendez?

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

No, not Shawn Mendez.

Jackson  02:50

Are you talking about the murderer?

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Yes.

Taylor

Oh, you know that but you don’t know tigers.

Jackson 

Is it Mendez or Menendez?

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Menendez, right? Menendez brothers. Okay, so you worried about you trying to think a tiger like that you raise a tiger and a tiger is not gonna do anything to you when we got kids out here doing it. So now it’s big news that one of her tigers ribs are almost ripped, have a rip somebody’s arm off. And this is what I just want to tell everybody leave the animals alone. These animals don’t want to play with you. They don’t want you in there. And they’re already mad that you took them from Africa or you know, India where Tigers come from.

Taylor

Or animal kingdom at Disney World.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

No, they don’t want to be there, Taylor. That’s my point. They don’t want to be there, you support that. You love some magic kingdom

Taylor 

As a favorite part.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Oh, okay. Well, you know what I mean? They just want to be left alone in their natural habitat. And which is not Carol Baskins house, but I promise you, you will never be eaten by a shark if you don’t go in the ocean. I promise you that.

Taylor  04:06

Trust that.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Okay. You will never have your arm ripped off by a tiger if you don’t put it in an enclosure and then enter that enclosure with the fallacy that the tiger like is your homeboy. Okay, this Tiger is not your homeboy. This Tiger is like, do you have food? Can you get me out of here?

Taylor 

Oh no, you are the food.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Now you are the food. So anyway, another thing and I have to just say this. I cannot wait for the COVID vaccine. I’m just telling you. I am the first person to, I’m getting it. I don’t I don’t care if my insurance doesn’t cover it. I will pay for it.

Taylor 

I am exclusively only getting the one by Dolly Parton. Because if anyone’s gonna care me of COVID it’s going to be the queen of Tennessee.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Like you said that so beautifully. You did you said it was my chest too. So Obama, Bush and Clinton say that they will take the COVID-19 vaccine publicly to like, prove their support of it.

Taylor

This is where we’re at.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Right, they have to show people like, it’s going to be hands across America for COVID. Literally, like presidents of the past. President, what is it? What is that Christmas story? It’s a president story, a COVID, a vaccination story, where you are visiting by presidents of the past, present, and future. And everybody’s going to be taking the vaccine and then we’re all just going to watch and see what happens. But I don’t care. I’m taking it y’all can watch me too. You have to get too.

Taylor

Oh, yeah, you know, I’m like the first round. I just want two on the first round, two on second round, the third.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

I want it. I absolutely want it.

Taylor 

I have things to do.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  06:04

I’m sorry, I just can’t get over this. This breaking news Tiger attack staffer at Carol Baskins Big Cat Rescue arm nearly torn off and I just I’m like Carole Baskin responds after Tiger attack staffer at Big Cat Rescue Tiger was quote, just acting normal.

Taylor 

Exactly.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Look at Carol Baskin coming through with the obvious truth. Tigers will tiger. And you know, Charlie left the sweetest notes for her elves last night, it said: “Hey, Alfi and Ellie, I have a surprise for you. Y’all aren’t getting married tonight. hope y’all have a great family, love Charlie.”

Taylor 

She said I’m officiating is happening. The dresses are here The tux are here.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Yeah, she made it out of construction paper. She was serious. And she made them rings. And she was like, hope y’all have a great family.

Taylor

She had the time. I have an announcement for you. “You are getting married.”

Taylor  07:08

Get ready.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

You are getting married. And anyway, she was super into it. So now they’re married. And they’re wearing construction paper outfits. And it’s a whole thing. So wait for the first time ever. Olivia was like: “Oh my god, you put those outfits on the elf, and then look like, bitch tell me the truth.” And I was like, “I didn’t”

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

I know, but so I just said to her, “if you don’t believe, whatever you choose not to believe in that your business if you don’t believe you don’t receive, just so you know. So if you don’t believe you don’t receive that’s all I’m telling you.” In this house you must believe to receive. And she was like, “I believe? It’s like church up in here.” I believe I was like, oh, look how quickly you believe again.

Jackson

Which leads us into our topic.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  08:01

Somebody texted him. Somebody texted Jackson and was like, we need to speed this shit up.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

So this week, we’re talking about religion and religious differences. I wanted to talk about this topic, specifically A, because the holidays are coming up. And so obviously, Christ Jesus is the reason for the season. But also because I grew up. I was raised Jewish, sort of heavy on the ish.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Jew-ISH.

Taylor

You had a bat mitzvah?

Jaime Primak Sullivan

I was a Jew for sure. But Jew-ISH, because my mother was Catholic, is was she converted. But I’m but I was saved in my 20s and I went through RCIA. And then I became Catholic before I met Michael. See, there’s a little fallacy out there people think I converted for Michael, but no, I did not. But anyway, so I wanted to talk about this because religion is such a personal thing. Like even if you are exposed to a religion as a child, like I was raised Jewish and so obviously I had a certain loyalty to Judaism, but also still do in a way like I will fight you quickly. If you talk shit about Jews, like we will have right and we I’m very Catholic, but if you say some shit about Jews, we are gonna have a problem. And I don’t deal with Holocaust deniers and I don’t deal with swastika people. Like I don’t have any patience for that.

Taylor 

Imagine denying the Holocaust.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

No really, right? Okay. No. So, but because religion is so personal that when you get older and you want to love someone who may have a different religion with you, for then you, there is a real honest to goodness challenge that comes from that. Remember back you guys don’t because you’re too young, but like back in the 80s. I mean, I think some people still say it because they don’t know what else to say they don’t want to be like, I’m homophobic, so, or I am racist. So instead they go like, I just don’t want you to have problems. I just don’t want life to be harder for you.

Taylor  10:20

Honey, I am the problem.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Right. Exactly. I am the danger. No, but like, that’s when you would tell your parents you are gay, or you would tell your parents you were in an interracial relationship, they would be like, but life is so hard already. “Why would you want to make it harder by dating a Jew?” Or like, “why would you want to make it harder by having a black boyfriend?” Right? Which really what they were saying was, I’m anti-Semitic, or I’m racist, or I’m homophobic or whatever, right? But I will say I am here to say that changing religions, even though it’s personal, it is hard. It is hard to be with someone who is not the same religion as you. Because if you have real faith, you are so devoted to what that means to you and how it heals you and you’re so passionate about why you know, it’s like how you know, it works. That when someone’s like, “or we could raise these kids the other religion that where we just like, go outside and we’re one with nature, and you’re like, Wait, what?” No, and but when you’re in love, and you’re falling in love, it all seems like it’ll work itself out. The number one lie we tell ourselves before we get married is marriage will fix this.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

I swear to you. Marriage fixes nothing. It magnifies everything.

Taylor

Imagine wanting to get married.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  12:01

Why would anyone ever get married? Jackson?

Jackson

Jackson is okay with marriage.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Jackson speaks about himself.

Taylor

I grew up in a split household religion for a long time as well.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

What religion?

Taylor 

Well, my mother is Catholic. And my dad was like, a church of god Baptist something I was when I was very young. I don’t remember the exact like, denomination. But I mean, they got married and he was not Catholic. And they got married in the Catholic Church. I mean, it was like a culture shock for my grandparents kind of thing. But I was raised primarily Catholic like it was I don’t ever remember it being like a source of contention with my dad. Like he was just like, “church is just a church, it’s fine”

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Because they probably had the hard conversations before?

Taylor 

Probably. I mean, I don’t know.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

To raise the children the children Catholic.

Taylor 

Yeah, I mean, I went with him a couple times before he converted to Catholicism.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Oh, he converted?

Taylor 

He did in 2003. But they were not 89′ to 92′, 2003. I mean, they’re married, like over a decade before he became Catholic. And, I mean, he did because he wanted to, but I mean, I spent a lot of my childhood with him going to different church and my mom taking me to Catholic Church. That was just the way it was. So yeah,

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Well, my parents are both your parents Jackson in the same religion?

Jackson

They are the same religion; they do go to different churches.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Did they always or is that now?

Jackson 

They used to go to the same church

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Yes. So in my house, Judaism, obviously is a religion, but it was more of like a culture. It was like, Oh, you’re Jewish. So we only went to temple on the high holy days, like my friends would go to I went to Hebrew school. You know, I went to Solomon Schechter. When I was young, I went to temple Beth Shalom like, I went to Hebrew school, I still can speak Hebrew. I still know my Torah portion. I can sing you Hebrew songs. I know the whole thing. I love a Hebrew song. I do. But I decided if you follow my journey, you know, I was in a very abusive relationship with a narcissist for two years. And I was broken in every way that a human being could be broken. I was physically broken. I mean, I was just boning with skin covering it and I was mentally and emotionally completely broken. And but when I first started having doubts about my faith, my Jewish faith, not doubts, but challenges was when my dad died, because I was in so much pain and I was spiraling out of control.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

And do you know that nobody, not one person was like, in my life now I’m only speaking let me be very clear. This is my experience with Judaism. There are Jews have wonderful faith and a great support system. Like that just was not my experience. I feel like as Christians when someone dies, people encourage you to turn to God, they tell you to pray they tell you to like, they remind you that Jesus won’t forsake you know, there’s like a thing. My dad died, not one person was ever like turned to God. Pray, none of that, right? So I started to be like, “Huh, I wonder if there’s something else for me” by way of religion after my dad died fast forward, blah, blah, blah, getting that relationship broken, bah, bah, bah, want to commit suicide, don’t turn to God instead, get saved, become a Catholic. Now, before we move on, because there’s a lot to talk about, we need to take a quick break. So before we get cuz you guys wrote a bunch of great questions. We want to get to that. So before we do that, let’s take a quick break.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Okay, so listener, question number one comes from a listener named Melanie in Australia. Good day mate. Okay, she writes:

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

“I have been with my partner for six and a half years now. And we have a beautiful 20-month-old daughter, and we got engaged earlier this year.”

Jaime Primak Sullivan  16:04

Congratulations.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

“He is Mormon. While I am Catholic, both strongly rooted into our religions. Now we are at a crossroads. I want to get married in the Catholic Church and raise my kids like that he obviously isn’t all for it. I don’t believe in his church, or his profits, or the Book of Mormon, only the Bible. Where do we go from here? What do I do? Is it possible to move past this? I’m not sure what to do, Jaime, so please, tell me what to do.”

Jaime Primak Sullivan

While Melanie First of all, thank you for your question. Second of all, Melanie, this might have been a conversation to have seven years ago. First of all, let’s keep it 100. You have a daughter and you’re not married. So there’s that right? I mean, let’s be honest, hey, I was pregnant, the week of my wedding. So we all know that I was having sex before my wedding too. But just with Michael, I was a virgin until I met him.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

I was.

Taylor 

You never had sex?

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Never. Just call me Mary.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

So I mean, obviously, you guys make compromises in your face, because you were having sex before marriage. And you had a child out of wedlock. So we know that you’re comfortable making certain compromises. I admittedly don’t know a ton about Mormon. So we won’t focus on the specific fates in this question, but let’s focus on the question itself. She wants to get married in her church and raise her children that religion and he isn’t for it, right? That’s why we have the hard conversations beforehand. But if we don’t have the conversations beforehand, then we need to compromise. It’s the only thing you can do. Because otherwise you’re drawing a line in the sand. And then what? Then you have a husband, who not only is not the same faith as you but never joined you and your child at church resents the fact that you made the decision for him going into any marriage with a resentment is a recipe for disaster. So your only choice is to compromise. So my suggestion would be exposed her to both faiths the way that we in my house were exposed to both faiths.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  18:05

I literally distinctly remember my mother on Easter, what our was it Easter or Thanksgiving? Or some holiday. It wasn’t Christmas. But she was like literally handing things out and like going like “Jesus loves you.” And my father was like, “I can hear you. They are Jewish.” And she was like, “of course they are.” “Jesus loves you.” And my dad was like, “Okay, I can still hear you.” Or at the time, my mother had an entire Christmas tree put up in our house that was white. And my father came home, he was like, “What is this” and she was like “a Hanukkah bush.”

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

He was like, no bitch is not a Hanukkah bush. She was like, “it’s white, and red and blue.” And he was like, “it’s a Christmas tree with ornaments.” Anyway, you just have to compromise. And that’s what happened to us. I mean, we were raised predominantly Jewish, obviously, having bat mitzvah and things like that, but also, my grandparents were uber Catholic, and we celebrated Christmas every year and went into the city every year, you know, so maybe raised them predominantly Catholic, but make sure that they are exposed to Mormon..

Taylor

Ways of life.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Things, right, Well, I don’t know because she was very clear to say I don’t believe in his church, his prophets or the Book of Mormon.

Taylor

That’s a really hard stuff.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Yeah, she’s right.

Taylor 

I was going to suggest maybe, I don’t know the logistics of this, but this is just me being an educated and throwing this out there. Disclaimer, what if you both had a ceremony in both churches, you know, to appease one and appease the other again, I don’t know the logistics, what you’re feeling.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Here’s the thing, ma’am. I don’t believe that your marriage will be a sacrament in the Catholic Church anyway, if he’s a practicing Mormon.

Taylor  20:01

Yeah. I mean,

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

I think the only way it’s a sacrament is if the person agrees to rate, ah, I do know this, your marriage can be a sacrament in the Catholic Church, if one of you is Catholic, and you agree as a couple to raise the children Catholic. So I would say, here’s the compromise. Let’s get married in the Catholic Church so that the marriage can be a sacrament for me because it’s important to me and agree to raise the kids Catholic. However, we will also celebrate your face with your with your family and things like that. So they can also be exposed to that, but let’s baptize them Catholic. I think that’s a fair.

Taylor

Just do a little bit of at all.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Yeah, because it’s just more presence. Okay, why don’t you start with this Melanie, educate yourself on the Mormon religion, and then call in because we don’t know anything about it. So what I’m going to tell you is my answer for you, my baseline answer is compromise. Do not going into this believing that you will work out how to raise the kids once you’re married. That is not the case. And let me tell you something about men, they don’t forget. You think they will like oh, we’ll get married a year from now. He’ll never remember. No, he will.

Taylor 

It’s called resentment.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Yes. It’s called resentment. And it has a long-term memory.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Listener question number two, this question comes from an anonymous listener, probably Taylor,

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

“how do you deal with being a Christian and being bisexual?”

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Okay, so it was me.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

“I love women and the sensuality only they can give”

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

I like this person.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

“I would go as far as saying I crave them.”

Taylor

I am not this woman at all.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

No, totally.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

“But I struggle with being a Christian and what the Bible says about marriage being between a man and a woman and that sex should be between man and a woman. I want to be openly bi. But I haven’t come out yet. For this one reason, tell me what to do, Jaime.”

Jaime Primak Sullivan  22:04

Okay. I do feel very qualified to answer this question. And the reason I feel qualified is because I am also anonymous. And in that, just kidding, I’m not. Okay, here is what I believe. I believe that God knows who we are. Because He created us in His image. So I don’t think we are keeping our sexuality a secret from God, because we don’t say it out loud. Now, some people would argue that homosexuality is not a sin until it is acted upon. i.e. thinking about murder is not actually a sin. It’s only if you actually commit the murder that you have sinned against God. Here’s the thing. I think that as a people, we have decided what works for us in the Bible and what doesn’t, right? Like in the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Every time you make a covenant with God, you pray to God, you speak to God, you get orders from God, there is an animal sacrifice every time, we decided as human beings that was getting messy. We’re just not going to do that anymore. We’re going to give money instead, right? That will be our offering.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

So we interpreted the Bible the way it fit our needs, because it would be weird to pull up to St. Francis with a goat and be like, “where do we, are we sacrificing it here or in the back?” Right? That would be weird. So that is just one example. Shrimp. Another example. God says very specifically in the Bible that we should not consume bottom feeders in the ocean, anything that marine life live on, right? That they consume, we are not supposed to consume. Yet here we are with our shrimp cocktail. You know, just donating money to the church, avoiding the sacrifice, eating the shrimp cocktail. There we are. The thing is this. I know I believe that God knows who I am. And so I don’t think that I don’t he’s always known if I knew in fourth grade God knew before that. That’s all I’m telling you. I knew in fourth grade. You think God was like, you know, playing mahjong and was like, “Holy shit. What did she say? Did she say she like girls. I did not see that coming”

Taylor 

I did not realize that God was in a nursing home in Central New Jersey but playing mahjong. Good to know.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

And so honestly, anonymous, I say this sincerely. I deal with a crip being a Christian and sinning. The same way being bisexual the same way I deal with being a Christian and being a woman or dealing with a Christian and being a mother or deal with a Christian and being married or deal with a Christian and eating shrimp or being a Christian, and cutting people off and not practicing forgiveness or extending grace or, you know, calling people jerk offs when they don’t drive too slow in front of me. I mean, I just think that there is a section of the population who has weaponized homosexuality. That is a fact. They have politicized it, they have weaponized it, and they have made it as if that one sin is greater than the next. That in and of itself is a sin, damning me to hell or damming Taylor to hell or you to hell or insinuating whatever that in also is a sin. The relationship that you have with God is between you and God.

And I promise you, he knows you. He loved you. He created you. He’s not disappointed. And let’s just say for shits and giggles, that right now he’s listening to this podcast going “No, Jaime that is wrong. I am disappointed. This isn’t what I wanted.” You know what? He will forgive you. Because you are not bisexual to hurt anyone you are not bisexual with ill intention to harm others you are not, you can die and meet your maker and say I honestly believed that you were okay with who I was. I thought you knew and you were okay with it. And let’s just say He’s like, “Well, I didn’t and I’m not.” Then you can say “well for that then I am truly sorry.” And guess what he’s gonna say? “Her name is on the list. Give me the rope” The rope, yes, the red velvet rope.

Taylor  26:59

This is something that helps me honestly put my head on my pillow at night and go to sleep. I believe that if I am to believe in the God that I was raised to believe in, then I have to believe that he knows who I am. if He did not want me to be this way, I would not be. And that is how I rationalize it. And like Jaime, if I get to the pearly gates and he says “JK, you thought wrong, then I will deal with that then because that’s when we all deal with it.” But that’s how I go to bed at night I go, Okay, if he did not want me to be who I am that I would not be. Otherwise I would be A, B, or C. But he chose D on that test. And that’s how to go about it. That’s just how I live.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

And the other thing is that it sounds to me that you’re more afraid of what? Like the flesh feels about homosexuality and bisexuality than God. Because God already knows. He been known. I mean, you’re putting it in words that you’re that you crave women, believe me when I tell you he knows. So you’re really afraid of the flesh. And I have to tell you this. I can’t speak to it as much because I never knew to be afraid to say I was attracted to women because I got very lucky. So one thing I will give Susan for the rest of her life. I said “Mom, I am attracted to girls” and she said “okay”, literally as if I said Mom, I want pasta for dinner. It just didn’t faze her, still doesn’t, at all. She doesn’t give a shit. We shall always go like, “one time I saw a woman that I thought was pretty.” I’m like, okay, not the same thing. But thank you for that. Thank you for sharing, then she’ll say and “I think Andy Garcia’s, gorgeous.” I’m like, “Okay, mom. He’s the man.”

Jaime Primak Sullivan

But fine. Thank you for sharing. But you were so scared.

Taylor 

Yeah.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Even to tell me. And I was the most loving, accepting person in your life. I mean, you had other people but like, we were together every day. And I was like, Taylor, I love you.

Taylor 

I know things.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Well, and also, I thought you would feel comfortable because I was honest with you about who I was

Taylor 

You were also a gateway.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

I was? I was a gateway? For coming out?

Taylor 

For real, though. I mean, it was it was just a gateway tunnel. Yeah. I mean, it was just a gateway. It was like, okay, it worked there. Let’s try this person. It worked there. Right. Let’s try it with this person. It worked there and it just went out and it’s just not a thing for me anymore.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

But looking back do you?

Taylor 

Terrified.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Terrified.

Taylor

Like, eat kind of terrified, I don’t have an eating problem now. But no, but no, but for real like, I mean There is a..

Jaime Primak Sullivan  30:01

I remember when I said it to you out loud and you were like, “I am not. I am straight. I liked a girl once” I was like..

Taylor 

One time

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

And I was like, Oh, okay. Well, I was just like, I love you. I just want you to know I love you and it doesn’t matter. I think I even told you that if God forbid your parents..

Taylor 

I remember the day that you told me, I know exactly where we were.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

In a car.

Taylor 

We were leaving the office from the magazine.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Buy now, gay later. I love that.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Right.

Taylor 

And you took me, you were putting, I guess it was the ace in the car. And you said, “I’m a vault. I will never tell anyone you don’t want me to tell.” And I was like, okay, like, for some reason it clicked to then that, okay, she’s really not gonna ruin my life this information, and then I did the buy now, gay later.

Taylor 

Then we worked through that. And then, you know, that was a long time. I really did think that because I just didn’t have a lot of experience. I was like, Okay, well, I don’t like there’s, you know, there are some gay people. They’re like, “eww girls”, and I’ve never been like that never been like, “that’s disgusting.” I’m just not that person. So that’s why I was like, I don’t know. And then we moved on to the world, we discovered that was not actually the thing that I’m just saying, like, yeah, there was a fear, like there is like a like, especially when you’re not in control of a lot of the financial things in your life. And you are, there’s just a lot you’re not in control of in your life. And you’re kind of at the mercy of a lot of different people for a lot of different reasons. It can be like this could blow up everything.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Right, and you can lose the people you love and be ostracized, and God won’t love you and I’ll never go to heaven, and I’m a sinner.

Taylor 

And I struggled with the God thing for a long time. Like, I mean, I’m not gonna pretend like I just go to church every weekend. Now, I still don’t, I’m still not there. But I did get to a place with me and God, where I was like, “Listen, if you didn’t want me to be who I was, who I am, you would not make me this. And either I have to accept that. Or I’ve got to like off myself.” And that’s where I was.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

In the words of mother Joanne. “I’m beautiful in my way,”

Taylor  32:10

I got tattooed. I got the right track.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

“Baby, I was born this way.”

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Okay, so that’s our advice for you anonymous, and we are you and we love you. And we are evolved. So when I promised Taylor, I wouldn’t tell anyone except for everyone on CAWFEE TALK and this podcast. I meant it. And I too, I too, will keep the secret safe for you. Okay, before we answer your last question, we have to take a quick break. So stick around.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Our last listener question comes from an email from a listener named Lynn. She says:

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

“My husband and I are 62 and 63. I converted to Catholicism this year from Presbyterian. We plan on going to both churches during the holiday. I attend mass by myself and my husband does not attend church regularly. I need some advice on how we decide on where we will be buried as we are redoing our wills. Our first fight 38 years ago was where each of us wanted to be buried. We want to be in the same cemetery, but we are two different faiths. So please Jaime, tell me what to do.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Okay, well, my dad is buried in a Jewish cemetery and my mother, even though she’s been living with my stepfather in sin for 20 something years, and he’s Catholic, my stepfather and my mother now is Catholic again I think, I don’t know.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

My mother is going to be buried next to my father, in a Jewish cemetery. She has a plot there. That’s what she wants. She wants her kids to be able to go visit their parents. So I will say that, Lynn, if you and your husband have children, it is ideal for the two of you to be buried in the same location because it does allow the children to be with their parents, in their grief and in their mourning and in their visitation. If it is truly important to you, to be buried in a Catholic cemetery, and if he will not budge, and he insists on being buried in a Presbyterian cemetery, I will give you two options that I think would be beneficial for your children. Because no offense Lynn but you’re going to be dead and you won’t know. Have a Catholic funeral and allow him to have a Presbyterian funeral and then both be buried in a non-denominational cemetery where your children can visit. Or here’s what I’m going to tell you make a deal whoever dies first wins.

Jackson  34:54

Exactly what I was thinking.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

That’s it. I mean, that’s just it.

Taylor 

Personally I like the first option. It’s equal

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

Yes, it’s equal. And it’s fair,

Taylor 

Everyone gets there thing. And you’re all one.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

And it is fair to the children to be in the same place, it really is. And then, you know, like, if my mom was buried in Florida, or she was buried somewhere else, and I got to go see my dad that I feel guilty for not going to see my mom, it’s a whole thing, right now, I just have the Jewish Catholic guilt all in the same place. And I can get it over with. And that’s what everybody needs to think about their kids. But I just want to say that you’ve been married for 38 years, and you’ve been fighting about it for 38 years, you may not have a resolution, maybe you just leave it up to the kids and see what they feel more comfortable with. I don’t know if any of this was helpful. But I will tell you that having your own faith is hard enough. Marriage, marrying it with someone else’s faith makes it difficult, adding that with guilt, and the pressures of flesh are even harder. Faith is tested every single day. That’s why it’s called faith. It’s a beautiful umbrella. It’s a sleeping bag of love from God. And if you wrap yourself in faith, and you keep your eyes focused on your own paper, and your own relationship with God, and you don’t allow the flesh to determine what that looks like for you.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  36:21

Because the same people who are telling you that your relationship with God doesn’t work are the same people eating shrimp cocktail, and I have some feelings about that. So unless you’ve sacrificed a goat this year in the name of God, and denounced all bottom feeders, I really don’t want to hear what you have to say about who I make out with when I’ve had too many tequilas. It’s just not your business. Also, guys, think about your kids, when you think about burials because as someone who you know, lost their father when they were young and had to go sit at a cemetery to talk to him about what college I was going to. It would, it just is easier if you can stay together. Now if you’re divorced, obviously. Go where you want. Anyway, okay, let me not get more of it here. I do have some really exciting, some exciting news. Michael Sullivan. He doesn’t know yet. But we’re gonna tell him is coming on the show. I know. Could you die? Could you die?

Taylor 

You guys don’t get it. That’s momentous. I mean, in her life, yes. Because he’s just so quiet.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

I know.

Taylor

He’s so tuned.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

So Michael is coming on the show. We are so excited. We’re going to record a bonus episode with him. So they’ll probably be two episodes. And we want all of your questions. So if you have questions for Michael, doesn’t mean he’ll answer it. But by all means, fuckin’ ask it. You can always email me at tellme@lemonadamedia.com. Or you can call me at 1-833-453-6662 if you want to talk about what he felt when he first saw me if I was the most beautiful woman he’s ever seen in his life. How did he feel when he found that I was bisexual? What did he think when he first met my family? Anything about the fact that we couldn’t stop getting pregnant what it was like to lose a baby or I don’t know. A reality show. His mother still spelling My name wrong on Christmas cards. 20 years later. There’s so much. I’m not gonna put questions in your mouth. You all ask him what you want to ask him.

Taylor  38:24

It’s gonna be a good one.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

It’s gonna be a great one. No, actually

Taylor 

Like a three-part monolith. Like, five hours. They’re sweating

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Genesis book one, yeah, it’s a thing. So we’re really excited about that. Make sure you guys share this podcast with everybody you know, spread the word, and subscribe so that you can hear the Michael episode. But as always, I thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you to Jackson and Taylor for both being on the show with me.

Jackson  3

Thank you for having us.

Jaime Primak Sullivan 

And I love you guys so much. On to the next.

CREDITS

TELL ME WHAT TO DO is a production of Lemonada Media. The show is produced by Kryssy Pease and Alex McOwen. It’s edited by Ivan Kuraev. Music is by Dan Molad. Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jaime Primak Sullivan, are our executive producers. Rate and review us and follow us at @LemonadaMedia on all your favorite social platforms. Of course you can follow me at Jamie Primak Sullivan on Facebook or at @JamiePSullivan on Instagram. If you have any questions for me that you want me to answer on the show, give me a call at 833-453-6662

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