Lord of the Rings vs. Game of Thrones
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Which fantasy series is better: Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones? X-Ray Vision co-hosts Rosie Knight and Jason Concepcion are back to tackle today’s topic. Rosie says that J.R.R. Tolkien, as the father of modern fantasy literature, has created an entire universe that is enjoyed by people of all ages, and which provides an accessible entry point for those new to fantasy. Jason argues that Game of Thrones provided us with a last-of-its-kind cultural phenomenon where millions of people watched the same thing at the exact same time. Rosie won the duo’s first debate. Will Jason even the score or will Rosie take a 2-0 series lead? It all comes down to Ronald Young Jr.’s verdict in the debate between Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.
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Transcript
SPEAKERS
Jason Concepcion, Ronald young Jr., Rosie Knight
Ronald young Jr. 00:00
There are few fantastical properties that are beloved more than Game of Thrones and the Lord of the Rings, both were book series adapted to screens big and small, with Game of Thrones being a popular, critically acclaimed television series and the Lord of the Rings being a popular, critically acclaimed film series. Both have strengths and weaknesses and both have rabid fan bases that are deeply entrenched in the lore. But which is better, the Lord of the Rings movies or the Game of Thrones television series, we decide once and for all, right here and right now on Pop Culture Debate Club.
Ronald young Jr. 00:46
Welcome back to Pop Culture Debate Club. I’m your host, Ronald Young Jr, let’s meet our panelists for the day, representing Lord of the Rings. Is a writer for publications like Esquire, Hollywood Reporter And Nerdist. She also co hosts a nerd culture podcast called X Ray Vision at iHeart. Hello and welcome back, Rosie Knight.
Rosie Knight 01:05
Hello,I’m so happy to be here. Thanks for having me back to talk about this very iconic, very cozy and delicious franchise full of delightful food and definitely no bad monsters or weird guys singing all the time. That’s definitely not [..]
Ronald young Jr. 01:20
Rosie Knight, starting their argument way earlier. Also joining us, representing Game of Thrones, is writer and Emmy award winning host of the hit digital series NBA Desktop, who also co hosts the hit podcast X ray vision with Rosie. Hello and welcome to the show, Jason Concepcion.
Jason Concepcion 01:42
Thank you for having us back. It’s wonderful to be here.
Ronald young Jr. 01:47
No, y’all are you all don’t know it, but y’all are now regulars on the show. Like, as soon as we ended that, I was like, get them back when I don’t care what it takes, get them back in here. So I’m looking forward to this. Let me ask both of you, what are your I know we, when we talked about DC Marvel, y’all both had pretty extensive relationships with both, and you kind of had to choose which one you could, probably could have argued for both side. Jason, I’ll start with you. What’s your relationship with? Uh, obviously, you’ve chosen Game of Thrones here. But what is your relationship with the Game of Thrones? Television series versus Lord of the Rings film series?
Jason Concepcion 02:22
Well, I was a big I’m a big fan of the books, and when they announced the series, I was tremendously excited. I started reading them around Feast for Crows era. And then when the TV show started, I was tremendously excited, and it was that run for seven seasons was just a truly wonderful run of my life. Every Sunday night, I knew where I was going to be every Sunday night after the show, and Monday morning and Tuesday day, I knew what I was going to be talking about is gonna be that I was a big fan.
Ronald young Jr. 03:03
Rosie, what about you the two series? Again, we talked Marvel DC, and for you, I knew you could argue both sides. Do you feel the same when it comes to Lord of the Rings for escape of Thrones?
Rosie Knight 03:12
I do feel like this is, again, I guess the curse of mine and Jason’s co hosting relationship is we love all this stuff. So when it comes to an argument, it’s definitely harder to kind of deal with. Even though I love Game of Thrones, the show was, like a huge, huge thing for me, especially with some of my friends, it would be like our water cooler. We’re always watching it on the day it comes out, kind of show. But definitely for me, I mean, I read Lord of the Rings from when I was a kid. I’m English. I’m rocking my like GRR Tolkien, fancy sweater like I there’s something about Lord of the Rings that is just so ingrained in my imagination and in the cultural imagination. I love how weird it is. I think people still get shocked and by just how strange it is, the movies, the TV show, the books, any of it has a lot more lore and weirdness and strangeness than people expect. And we have covered both Game of Thrones, obviously, on the podcast, House of the Dragon specifically, and also Lord of the Rings stuff, especially Rings of Power. And during that time, I was doing a lot of Lord of the Rings writing for IGN. So we kind of settled into the roles, you know. But definitely I love both. But I loved to hear Jason talk about Game of Thrones, so I was also kind of like cheating, because now I just get to hear him geek out about it.
Ronald young Jr. 04:35
I love it. Well, it seems like y’all are both well suited to argue this, and I’m ready to hear you argue, are y’all ready to fight?
Jason Concepcion 04:41
Yes.
Rosie Knight 04:43
Yes, put them up.
Ronald young Jr. 04:46
Okay, Rosie, we’ll start with you. Lord of the Rings is better than Game of Thrones, and why?
Rosie Knight 04:53
Okay, so I if I came here and made the truest, most obvious argument, which is JR talking father of modern fantasy literature. Hobbit out in 1937 Lord and rings out in 1954 becomes one of the like his works become some of the most popular works of fiction of the 20th century. That would basically be the same argument that I made for DC. So instead, I’m gonna pitch it like this. Where would you rather live like? What vibes are you feeling like when you watch a Lord of the Rings movie and you’re in Hobbiton and you’re jamming with Gandalf, and you’re like, okay, this is vibey. And even when you’re on an adventure, you can still go to a tavern, you can eat a little delicious food. I think food and fantasy is one of my favorite things, and both series do excel in it. But Lord of the Rings with the Limbus bread and the, you know, potatoes, potatoes. Put them in a stew, like the food elements of it are really great, really cozy. I think that it has taken on a life of its own. In the case of the movies, where they have become these non traditional holiday movies. Everybody loves to watch them during Thanksgiving. They love to watch them at Christmas. I think that there’s something so engaging and beautiful. And also I do find, and this is something very important to me as a writer and a podcast and a journalist like it’s very good access point for people who’ve never read fantasy, even though Jason points out it is extremely long winded at times. There are weird songs, there are characters who are singing, who are gods like Tom Bombadil. We will get to him later. But like, generally, this is a book you can give to a kid and say, hey, do you want to try this out? If you will show a kid the First Lord of the Rings movie, you can say, hey, does this storytelling speak to you like? Is there something here that you like? And obviously, we can then see the impact it had going on. But that’s my my argument today is more about just the vibes of the world that Tolkien created, and the interesting lore and the strange characters and monsters and also like, would you rather live there or would you rather live in the Game of Thrones world? Probably not. Generally the Game of Thrones world, I’m saying Lord of the Rings is where it’s at.
Ronald young Jr. 07:01
Okay, vibes and lore. I like that argument. Jason Concepcion, we know that there’s plenty of vibes and lore when it comes to Game of Thrones. Your opening argument when it comes to Game of Thrones over Lord of the Rings.
Jason Concepcion 07:15
My opening argument, where would you like to live? I think is a fine argument when I look at when I look at Lord of the Rings the movies, I say, oh, gosh, where would I live? Nobody looks like me here, except maybe the bad guys who are riding the elephants who show up at the end. They all get murdered. Where am I gonna go with a Game of Thrones? I’d like to structure my argument this way. It was perhaps the last of its kind, the last place where we all lived on a certain night, at a certain time altogether, when that show was running, when it was hot, when it was really going, when it was driving the conversation that was it, it was the water cooler, so to speak, in a way that no other show has captured since. And wasn’t that great? Wasn’t it awesome to have a show that we were all talking about, that we were all like, could you I can’t believe this happened. Oh, don’t tell so and so, because they haven’t seen it yet, that unifying force of a piece of popular culture is feels like it evaporated. It just It disappeared in our hands, like a snowflake. It’s just gone, but it was there then. And I love Lord of the Rings. I love it. It’s in my heart. I love it. I have special edition books. I have the special edition blue rays. I have, you know, first edition copy of the simmering I love that series. The Game of Thrones was an event that brought us all together in real time in an era in which because of the internet, because of social media, you’ve heard this argument before, we’re so fractured in our own little places. We’re all our own little things on our own little phone. We’re on our phone while the TV’s on. We’re watching something else while something else is in the background. Game of Thrones cut through all that. It dropped all the walls and it drove conversation worldwide when it was on. And that’s special. That’s it. That’s a thing that nothing else can touch. And Lord of the Rings The movies for as great as they are, truly great. A special thing they didn’t do that.
Ronald young Jr. 09:44
Rosie is that unique to Game of Thrones. I mean, we’ve had the Sopranos. We’ve had Last of Us. I believe Breaking Bad came out on Sundays. There was walking dead. There was a lot of of shows that did this. What Jason is talking about, gathering of the tribes, or gathering. Of everyone together to kind of talk around one thing. Do you think that is, is that important for you? In terms of argument.
Rosie Knight 10:06
I will say, In defense of my co host and his point, which I do think is a good point, I will say, I do think that the thing that is different about Game of Thrones in the context of those shows was this was like, the first high budget fantasy show that hit like this, where it wasn’t just like talking about Tony Soprano, and you know, is, was he really dead? Is he not dead? What does the ending mean? Like this is you had everyone in like an office talking about dragons and talking about fantasy. So I do think that is a very fair point, I will say. And obviously I know I do look like a hobbit, so I appreciate that. I do look like it. I got the Hobbit. I got a hobbit trim, like I’m short. But I was also, say, like the in England especially, and because of the age I was, I was like 12 or something, when the first 12 or 13, when the first movie came out, they were like event movies, like everyone I knew was like skipping school to go and watch that first movie. Now was that because everyone had a crush on Legolas. Yes, that is part of it. But again, I will say, you know, Game of Thrones, one of the biggest things is it’s sexy. It had characters, people like, and, you know, kind of fantasize about Lord of the Rings. Has that too, Aragorn. You got your Lego last you got, if you’re somebody who likes a hobbit, you got Elijah Wood. You know, he was a big crush for a lot of people. I think that that emotional connection that we make to stories was very much there with Lord of the Rings. But it also was, you know, a movie a year. It was kind of like a pre MCU, where everyone was going to make those movies, you had to wait till the end, until they would get nominated and recognized by the Academy, and then, you know, we still had the conversations. Now I will say, I do believe the movies are that I will make an admittance that I do not believe that Lord of the Rings television has gotten there so far, and I think that is because it is constantly trying to live up to Lord to Game of Thrones. But I will also say, I do enjoy Rings of Power, and I think that the fact that they tried to make it not like Game of Thrones, while living in the shadow of it is interesting. Like they didn’t go for the gore. They didn’t even though those you know, there’s a lot of war and horrible stuff that happens, and the second season of Rings of Power definitely opened with a darker framework. But I think the fact that can stand alone and be talky and be cozy and be adventurous is very, very interesting, because a lot of other shows have tried solely to ape what Game of Thrones has done. And that’s not possible. Game of Thrones as a TV show is a unique phenomenon. The Lord of the Rings as movies and TV shows and books, I think, is still the more unique phenomenon as it has existed in multiple spaces. When we get that Game of Thrones movie, maybe I’ll change my mind.
Ronald young Jr. 12:49
We’ll be back with more Pop Culture Debate Club after this break.
Ronald young Jr. 13:00
Jason, I want to, I want to key in on one key thing that Rosie said, Rosie, I don’t want you to water down your argument with the rigs of power.
Rosie Knight 13:10
I can’t like dismiss it, because […]
Ronald young Jr. 13:20
You’re a very fair arguer, which I like that. But Jason, I want to key in on one key thing that Rosie said, and she talked about the fact that you’re talking about gram of Thrones being event viewing. She counters by saying Lord of the Rings were event films, which I would probably agree with. Yeah, but let’s talk specifically about what she said about the coziness. I would say there’s something uniquely anti cozy about Game of Thrones. Is that a problem for the series?
Jason Concepcion 13:45
Well, first of all, in terms of coziness versus non coziness, conflict versus, you know, chilling, beautiful underground houses with delicious food, I think it’s all about what you’re looking for and what the audience is looking for. You’re looking for a pure escape, or are you looking for something that reflects the real world a little bit, I’ll say this about Game of Thrones and why I think it is the winner here, because it had to fight against the perception of fantasy that had in large part been created by a Lord of the Rings, the book series and the movie series and the 70s animated movie series, which is a and Led Zeppelin, and all the other things, all the Other cultural things, right that had been influenced by Lord of the Rings, and it brought a decidedly different, more certainly more conflict based, more political minded storytelling with more you know, humanistic type relationships, betrayal things of that nature, actual, you know, love affairs, things that human beings do, which you don’t find in Lord of the Rings. It had to kind of break that, I’m gonna say, cozy, stigma that Lord of the Rings has. Even though there’s big battle scenes, there’s a huge, you know, there’s huge siege scenes, there’s huge monsters that get fought in that series. But it had to kind of break away from that cozy orcs and magic and guys with long gray beards and big magical staffs kind of stigma. I knew a lot of people who were like, I don’t like fantasy. They held off on watching Game of Thrones until maybe season two or three, because they were just like, I don’t like fantasy. You know, load of the Rings. Not my thing. Game of Thrones had to break through all that and show people. Here’s another way of doing it, and it did that.
Ronald young Jr. 15:53
Well quick follow up for you, Jason, I’ll let you come in. Rosie, one of the observations that I’ve made about watching Game of Thrones is that there was a commitment to that fantasy in some ways, and then there was a kind of a walking back of that fantasy, especially when you get into the later episodes, and we decide that there are ends that are specifically not tied up, that are fantasy ends, versus the more political intrigue, which was drawing people into the show. I would have loved to see more of the marriage of those two. So I’m guessing, I’m asking in terms of everything you just said, which is like breaking through the fantasy part of that was by putting the emphasis on the political intrigue. But as we see in later seasons, there’s, again, kind of a contraction from that commitment. Is that a problem for you? Or do you what would you say to that? Would you address that?
Jason Concepcion 16:38
Is it a problem for me? Is there a problem for my argument is, I guess what I would say? I’d put it this way, I’ve been critical of the end of the TV show as many have. I, you know, gave a speech on my podcast binge mode about why I felt after Season Five that the show should dedicate itself to portraying the magical elements and the fantasy elements, why they’re important, and hoping that the show would not go away from it. So on a personal level, yeah, I would have loved to see that stuff more, and I felt like the mix could have been, you know, they could have put a little bit more salt in the stew towards the end. But for my argument, I don’t think it matters at all. You know, the argument I’m making is, is, you know, I’m gonna make a sports analogy. There are, there are two, right? There are two renaldos. There is the Cristiano Ronaldo that everybody knows, who played for Real Madrid and comes from Portugal CR 7. He had a wonderful, long career During which many thought or and argued that he was the greatest of all time, better than Leo Messi. And then there is the previous Ronaldo, the Brazilian Ronaldo R9 who reached unbelievable heights, but whose career was cut short by injuries, should we forget about those heights because of the ending? I’m not going to certainly not in this argument. I’m the high water mark and the and the run that this show went on for like six solid seasons of dominating the pop culture consciousness when it was going you can’t ignore that, because I wish the ending would have been different. I’m not going to.
Rosie Knight 18:34
Look I’m going to say something here, right? And I do think that you make a good point. And I will preface my point that I’m about to make with some more fair argument on my side, which is, if you made a super cut of all the times women talk to each other in Lord of the Rings, you would have no movie, right? So the treatment of women there is not fantastic, but I think we have to talk about the fact that you can go into Lord of the Rings and know you’re not going to see anyone get sexually assaulted. You know what I mean, like, and I love Game of Thrones. But I do think when it comes to like, our vibes and an accessibility, both of these shows are definite. Both of these projects are definitely not great evidences of like, inclusion, especially early game of thrones and pre Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones ended up doing better and then. But one thing I will say is like that cozy element, which I do agree, was definitely not a celebrated part of fandom back in the day. I think today it people are moving towards it as an escapism from that harsh reality of the real world. And while Game of Thrones is fantastically made, some of the choices that are made by many prestige shows, especially on HBO, end up with a situation where there’s so much great stuff. But then you also have to know that you’re going to go in and see people get treated in this terrible way. Does that work for escapism as a show like does that. Allow people to escape, I don’t know, and I think that’s why there’s been some very rightful critiques of Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings when it comes to like inclusivity, but on the framework of which women are treated better, I would say, generally, the Lord of the Rings franchise has interesting, complex women on screen who you know are not gonna be sexually assaulted, which, sadly, Game of Thrones. That is its biggest problem to me. Even though I love it, it still has too much. Actually, the bigger problem is the wigs. And I will say that the wigs are better in Lord of the Rings, no Targaryen has ever had hair as good as Orlando Bloom in a movie that came out like 20 years ago. Guys like get the wig guy from Lord of the Rings. That’s the problem.
Ronald young Jr. 20:43
Rosie, you you started with such, you started with such an impassioned, reasonable argument there that I was like, and then it just slid into Orlando Bloom.
Rosie Knight 20:53
It’s wigs man, the wigs in game returns. Everyone knows, so bad. And the wigs in Lord of the Rings slightly better, you know? And that’s what it really matters.
Ronald young Jr. 21:02
Jason on wigs and treatment of women. Where do you land when it comes to of Game of Thrones?
Rosie Knight 21:08
What do you think about wigs and women?
Jason Concepcion 21:10
It’s hard to argue the wigs point, although I think the wigs, the thing about a wig is the best wig is the one you don’t talk about. So, you know? Wow, it’s hard to make the argument right now when I’m not sure what was a wig and what wasn’t a wig on that show. And I think that speaks to some of the quality. Obviously, the Targaryens are their own thing on the treatment of women, you know? I think, first of all, I support storytellers being able to tell their story in their world. I don’t know that it’s necessarily fair to compare the storytelling choices of these two worlds as a way to critique the other, because they’re quite obviously attempting to do different things. A Lord of the Rings is creating a high fantasy world that is decidedly unlike the world of the early 20th century from which Tolkien was writing from, although some of the worst biases of that era exist and are mirrored in that text. We don’t have to get into that, and that doesn’t that doesn’t dim my passion for that story, but it is definitely a story of its time, as was he Game of Thrones seeks to mirror the complexity and the visceral texture of the medieval world, specifically medieval Europe, although obviously there are a lot of different cultures and things that intersect there, and that time period was was brutal. Was brutal in many ways. You know, we see a character in Game of Thrones get his hand chopped off, really for nothing because he spoke up against to defend a prisoner, a fellow prisoner who is a woman. But I also think it’s something that fits the context fix the fits the time period, fits the type of story we are trying to tell. The stakes of Game of Thrones, understanding that your favorite character bad things could happen to them as bad things happen in life, they could get maimed, they could die. And unlike in Lord of the Rings, except for one notable instance, they don’t come back. They don’t they don’t immediately come back. You know, um, one of the things that makes Game of Thrones so dynamic to me is that people die and they don’t and they’re gone. That’s it, they’re gone. On the cusp of, of making some great decision that you feel like could swing the story towards the good guys, in air quotes, the good guys, if they if there is such a thing in this story, and and they might get massacred and they might disappear from the story. And the stakes that, the weight of the stakes in a story like that were tremendous again, when it was going every single night, you’re like, who, who could die tonight. I don’t want anybody to go with Lord of the Rings. Again, a movie series that I love. There was, there’s almost, there’s never a moment where I’m like, Oh yeah, Legolas is gone. That’s it, he’s getting, he’s getting merch tonight. Never, ever in a million years did you ever feel like anybody. Was truly under threat. Now that speaks to the coziness, right? That wonderful feeling of comfort that like we’re gonna win, the good guys are gonna win. I love that kind of story, but I also love the kind of story where you’re not sure, where you don’t know, will the good guys win? Will the bad guys maybe win?
Ronald young Jr. 25:19
Rosie, when it comes to Lord of the Rings. Everything you’re talking about, especially when we talk about fantasy elements versus the political elements. Obviously, I feel like Game of Thrones does a better job with political elements, and Lord of the Rings is doing a much better job with the fantasy elements. But there’s a couple of things about Lord of the Rings it’s always been confusing to me. One, it’s been the relationship between Gondor and Rohan and then two has been exactly what the ring does. And I feel like there’s a way in which that the movie is positing something about the ring that I feel like isn’t always totally clear to the viewer. In the way that in Game of Thrones, it’s like, hey, this thing does this, and if we don’t get this thing, that it’s over. And I feel that’s less clear in The Lord of the Rings because they’re so leveraged by the fantasy elements.
Rosie Knight 26:06
I agree that the Ring of Power is a very confusing artifact, and that goes back to the fact that even Tolkien was changing it, like in the original Hobbit book, it was just like a magical ring that gave you invisibility, kind of like an invisibility cloak, and then it changes into this kind of malevolent version, and then he rewrites the hobbit to fit in this more malevolent version. But the truth is that with Tolkien, he was a lot of the time like just vibing, like, that’s what also, I don’t think people understand this man just loved language. He wanted to make up a crazy story he has spoke. You know, there are comments from him about how analogous or non analogous it is. He was very outspoken against the nuclear weapons and the bombing of Japan and stuff. So I do think the truth is that the ring itself is still a nebulous thing, and that is why I will say the Rings of Power, as the name may hint to you, has done a lot to build on that law, taking from the Tolkien kind of appendices, taking from this world, and saying, like, what do these actually do? Why do we need them? And really, the truth is, what does the one wing do? It gives you control over the other rings. But what do those other rings do? Well, now we’re getting into it. This is the problem is, like, what do the Rings of Power do? Believe me, I have written a lot about this, and it’s hard to explain. Trying to answer those questions, as much as some fans might want them answered, maybe takes away a little bit of the magic.
Ronald young Jr. 27:35
We’ll be back with more PCDC after this break.
Ronald young Jr. 27:47
Jason, give me your closing argument. Game of Thrones, the television series is better than Lord of the Rings, the movie series.
Jason Concepcion 27:55
Game of Thrones, the television series is better than Lord of the Rings the movie theories, because it brought us all together. Yes, I understand that the Lord of the Rings movies, the three original Lord of the Rings movies in particular, were a by which I mean that you know the hobbit prequels, the three Hobbit movies in which they you know like Jesus with the loaves and fishes created a meal out of a single morsel of food. Were events in their own right. Every Christmas season I was there and many others were, is a different time then the movie theater was the movie theater that was the big daddy movie theater. The Internet was like a tadpole, a little baby thing. Game of Thrones came along in a time period in which everybody’s attentions were everywhere, wherever they wanted, online gaming, various apps, screen within a screen, viewing whatever it’s a streaming whatever television show they wanted to watch. All of that stuff existed a million channels, it broke through every single one of those walls to dominate the cultural conversation, not for a couple of seasons like a Twin Peaks, which also came along in the 80s, when there was a lot less media landscape, but for six, seven years, strongly dominate. Will we ever see that again? That’s the thing about Game of Thrones. We can talk about the story. We can talk about the characters. We can talk about the world. Let’s talk about, when will the next time be that we all are together watching a thing, a television show, a narrative television show on one particular night of the week, and then talking about it all week. I don’t know if it’s gonna happen again. I feel like it will, but I can’t tell you when I think there will be another great sci fi fantasy trilogy that will happen again. Uh, like Lord of the Rings, not as good, probably with, perhaps not the legs, but it’ll happen again, maybe within the, you know, the Middle Earth universe, maybe we’ll get some more of those. But in terms of a television show uniting people in this modern media landscape where, again, your eyes are being called to a million different things. We may never see it again. We may never see its like again, and that is why it wins.
Ronald young Jr. 30:35
Rosie Knight closing argument.
Rosie Knight 30:37
Okay, I’m gonna jump off what Jason said here and say, Okay, I agree. I actually agree with all of that, which is something we’re always doing. We’re always agreeing, so there’s not necessarily the best people for this podcast, but I will say, with all of that said, even in an age of streaming right now where your attention is being fought for, where Netflix is making new movies and dropping them every single day, movies you’ve never even heard of, shows from all across the world becoming hugely popular, things like, you know, squid game and the hundreds of millions of hours of it that were viewed. There is so much content that is being created, so much art that is being put out there. There is entire ecosystems of art outside of television, podcasts, streamers. You know, everything that you can imagine exists now. And guess what? People are still watching Lord of the Rings movies every time fall comes. The world is coming together. The Internet is coming together and watching the extended editions Lord of the Rings movies have essentially become like a, you know, White Christmas for nerds, like people will watch this movie, and everybody’s watching it. It’s on, literally, it’s on, you know, it’s on streaming services. People are watching it. People still buy the physical media copies so they can watch the extended version. I think that the fact that these movies are still so beloved, and that the IP though, I hate to call it that, but the works of Tolkien are now exploding onto our screens in different ways. But this peak is still those movies that made people go out to cinema and watch them, and now that going to the cinema is not so much of a thing, people are still choosing to watch them at home. And I think that shows that Lord of the Rings movies are better than Game of Thrones Asterix. I like them both. Sorry to the Game of Throne heads on our Discord, I love you guys. You know, I love House of the Dragon, don’t despair, I love it.
Ronald young Jr. 32:38
Are y’all ready for my ruling?
Jason Concepcion 32:40
Yes.
Rosie Knight 32:41
I’m ready.
Ronald young Jr. 32:42
Okay, this is interesting because once again, we’re in a place where all three of us like two things. And it really did come down, down to some points.
Rosie Knight 32:49
Just some guys, just having a combo.
Ronald young Jr. 32:51
Once again, yeah, and again, y’all, y’all made a lot of points here that I like stuff that I hadn’t thought about Jason bringing up the appointment television for for Sunday night’s HBO, like, I think that’s like, something that’s very valuable to think about here, especially the ways in which it had our attention. And Rosie talking about the cozy vibes of Lord of the Rings, and what it does for us during the Christmas season. And I mean, specifically, I think after Christmas, before New Year’s season, which is the perfect time to try to watch 12 hours of something, to binge through something. I mean, if you think about it, Lord of the Rings really informs our binging behavior before we even knew what. Understood what binging content actually was life said Lord of the Rings, law and order all of that. There’s just a couple of things that you would just be watching over and over again, and Lord of the Rings was one of that especially, I mean, we remember when they released the extended blu ray edition.
Rosie Knight 33:46
It like each movie […]
Ronald young Jr. 33:48
Yeah, and like whatever, when I look it up to watch it, because I just watched, just watched it. And I also just watched Game re watch Game of Thrones. When I went back and did it, I specifically looked for the extended editions. I don’t want to watch the regular I want to watch the full cut with the 14 different endings on Return of the King. All of that. I’m ready to watch that. So I think both of you made some very good points. Other things I want to point out is, like, I like. I think the difference between how I feel when I watch Lord of the Rings is somehow attached to the danger in that there is a lot of plot armor around a lot of these characters. IE, they are endangered that I know they’re going to get out of I know you’re not going to kill Frodo. He has to destroy this and […]
Rosie Knight 34:32
He’s literally, like, gonna go to heaven and be immoral like, it’s.
Ronald young Jr. 34:35
Like, I know you’re not going to kill Frodo. As a matter of fact, when you kill, when you kill Sean Bean, and I’m forgetting his action, would you kill a […] Would you kill Boromir in the Fellowship of the Ring? It means, it means everything, because I know this is a death that’s significant if it’s going to push along events to happen in the next one, in the two towers and in Return of the King. So I feel like that matters. Death being final. I think what actually like pushes me over the edge, Jason, unfortunately for you, is that I’m not done yet. But what pushes me over the edge a little bit is the idea that when I re watch Lord of the Rings, I re watch every single minute. I turn it on and re watch everything. When I re watch Game of Thrones, I go through season by season, and I pick my favorite episodes, because the great episodes of Game of Thrones are still great episodes now, the watches on the wall, the mountain and the Viper the door, the Long Night, yeah, Battle of the Bastards, Beyond the Wall like these are all all episodes that still hold up and feel good to watch right now. However, when you get to those last that last season, and you get to those last couple episodes, especially if you binge watch it, all of the lore building and all of the little hits that they built to, like the way brand was connected to the Mad King and all that, and the way that they don’t pan out, it just it makes me so upset, and it reminds me of exactly how I felt, of exactly how I felt when I was watching this live. That’s exactly what it is. So unfortunately for me, I think it comes down to the staying power of both of these. While I still like late game of thrones. I’m still holding out hope for House of the dragon, like bringing me back in. I’m still unconvinced that I have not started watching yet. I’m still hoping.
Rosie Knight 36:28
It’s utterly fantastic. Everybody knows I’m a gamer, I’m a Game of Thrones lover, but I’m a house of the Dragon super Stan, like, I think that is a perfect television show, so I think you should watch it. It’s very interesting. In the context of post Game of Thrones.
Ronald young Jr. 36:45
I will absolutely give it a shot. But unfortunately, in this conversation today, Jason, I’m sorry this makes you over to this one. Next time, whatever. Y’all just swap them immediately.
Jason Concepcion 36:55
Congratulations. I mean, I get it.
Rosie Knight 37:00
Again. I just want to say, I just want to say, I think that Game of Thrones is a great show. I think that Jason is a great Maester, and truly, we’re both the winners, because we get to co host X Ray Vision together. But also I appreciate you, Ron.
Ronald young Jr. 37:19
I want to be clear, Jason. I like Game of Thrones. I just feel like in this if I’m like, it almost makes me say, like, which 1am I gonna keep re watching? And I know I’ll keep re watching Lord of the Rings for the rest of my life. I don’t know that about Game of Thrones, but with all that being said, you are gracious and defeat as always. Where could folks find you if they’re looking at do you have any last party words for us?
Jason Concepcion 37:38
Find us, find Rosie and I on X Ray Vision, the podcast, find me on Six Trophies the podcast and various other places.
Ronald young Jr. 37:45
And Rosie.
Rosie Knight 37:46
I’m on X ray vision. I’m not on six trophies yet, but when Wendy is talked about, I’ll be there. I love Wendy or Victor […] I got my faves. But yes, X Ray Vision, we are pumping out those episodes, baby. Everything you could want to hear about. We have news episodes coming out on the weekend now we’re covering all your favorite stuff. We recently did a really great David Lynch retrospective. We had some fun talking about werewolf movies. So yeah, find us there, and then, um, Rosie Marx, M, A, R, X on Letterbox and Instagram.
Ronald young Jr. 38:18
Perfecto, thank you both for being here.
Jason Concepcion 38:20
Thank you.
Ronald young Jr. 38:25
Thanks again to Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight. There’s more Pop Culture Debate Club with Lemonada Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content, like Jason and Rosie discussing Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones, books being the gateway to their fandom. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts. Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC. It’s produced by Jamela Zarha Williams, Kryssy Pease, Dani Matias and me, Ronald young Jr. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our Senior Vice President of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.
