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Which Larry David show is better: Seinfeld or Curb Your Enthusiasm? Our most heated debaters – writer and performer Carma Anderson and storyteller and director Jameer Pond – return to settle this question. Jameer says Curb would never have been made without the success of Seinfeld, whose stars and guest stars became TV icons. Carma agrees with Jameer, and argues that Curb builds on Seinfeld’s solid foundation and ultimately surpasses it comedically. Ronald Young Jr. will either hand Carma her second PCDC win or even the series with a Jameer victory.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Jameer Pond, Carma Anderson, Ronald young Jr.

Ronald young Jr.  00:00

Jerry George, Elaine Kramer and sometimes Newman. These are, of course, the iconic characters of the beloved sitcom Seinfeld, the hit 90 show about nothing. The show had us pondering such questions like, if you’re backing into a parallel parking spot, do you have priority over someone who’s pulling in, or what is considered correct etiquette for ordering soup, and should there be a penalty for not adhering to those rules? These low stakes questions were often viewed through the eyes of George Costanza, a character inspired by show creator Larry David. Larry continued pondering these types of questions on his next show curbed her enthusiasm, another hit show essentially about nothing, but this time entirely from David’s fictionalized perspective, both shows are fan favorites. Both shows trade and ridiculous scenarios. But which show was better? Seinfeld or Curb Your Enthusiasm? We decide once and for all, right here and right now on Pop Culture Debate Club.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:09

Welcome back to Pop Culture Debate Club. I am your host, Ronald Young Jr, let’s meet our panelists for the day. Representing Curb Your Enthusiasm is writer and performer at New York City’s Second City. Hello and welcome to Carma Anderson.

 

Carma Anderson  01:24

Hi.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:25

Welcome back. Also joining us, representing Seinfeld is a writer, producer and the creative video director for Vanity Fair. Let’s welcome Jameer pond.

 

Jameer Pond  01:36

Oh, hey, Ronald.  Fancy to see you here.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:45

Like, the fake surprise you knew you don’t like dude where you weren’t Jameer.

 

Carma Anderson  01:50

It’s almost like it’s not his show. Like, oh […]

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:56

Didn’t know Ronald was gonna be here. What are you hosting?

 

Jameer Pond  01:59

I didn’t know.

 

Carma Anderson  02:00

Did he take his shoes off in your house, Ronald?

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:03

I certainly hope so.

 

Jameer Pond  02:06

Well, I didn’t know you were gonna be here. I didn’t know karma. I just bumped into you guys hello.

 

Carma Anderson  02:12

Absolutely.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:12

We’re so happy.

 

Carma Anderson  02:14

Doesn’t exist. It’s a construct, you guys.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:17

So the last time y’all were here, we have never gotten more feedback and letters to ask if y’all are okay. Are y’all still friends?

 

Carma Anderson  02:28

Wrote letters, hand wrote letters.

 

Jameer Pond  02:32

Hand wrote letters.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:33

The United States hand wrote saying, are Carma and Jameer still friends, so are y’all still friends?

 

Jameer Pond  02:39

No.

 

Carma Anderson  02:42

That was the end of that fool.

 

Jameer Pond  02:44

That was the end of that.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:46

And Jameer, you lost last time. What’s, uh.

 

Jameer Pond  02:50

I like to say I did not win.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:52

Okay, gotcha All right well, I hope you all have saved some of that energy for today’s, today’s debate, and it cannot slide back into SNL versus a loving color, because that has already been decided. That is the law of the land.

 

Carma Anderson  03:06

And we talked about it yesterday.

 

Jameer Pond  03:07

Be what you want to be. All right, Ronald?

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:11

Okay, so look, let’s put the niceties aside. Are you all ready to fight?

 

Jameer Pond  03:17

No.

 

Carma Anderson  03:17

Indeed.

 

Jameer Pond  03:20

No, prepared.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:28

Jameer, opening argument, Seinfeld is better than Curb Your Enthusiasm.

 

Jameer Pond  03:34

Okay, so what are we talking about here? We talk about the mothership, right? The whole Seinfeld universe exists because of the show. Seinfeld, to me, both amazing shows. Seinfeld, to me, is better than Curb Your Enthusiasm, I think, from several standpoints. One is that curb came from Seinfeld’s balls, like the lineage of of Kirby enthusiasm. The reason why we tune in to Kirby enthusiasm, the reason that the appeal was even started, was because they wanted to see what the guy who co created Seinfeld was up to. Nobody wanted to hear about the SNL year of Larry David. They wanted to figure out like, what this guy was up to. He made his name off of Seinfeld. Seinfeld, the show, has opened the flood gates for that generation, post Cosby generation at NBC, with his guest stars that kind of, like, got hot off of just being guest stars of Seinfeld, and it went on to anchor other legendary shows for the network and just throughout TV in general. And I just think if we talking about comedy, the whole writing about nothing, doing nothing, and observing it, it was mastered on Seinfeld, and it was crafted during curb but that tree, that lineage, the. Mothership started in 1989 with Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David.

 

Ronald young Jr.  05:05

Carma, your opening argument, Curb Your Enthusiasm is better than Seinfeld.

 

Carma Anderson  05:10

So, yeah, Curb Your Enthusiasm is better than Seinfeld. I just want to keep my thesis very straight and cut, you know, cut throat and it’s, it’s because it’s actually observational comedy that is happening on the fly. When you are having an observation you are going to your first thoughts, right? They may not be the first the first thoughts are usually not the most politically correct, but they’re usually the most honest and the most funny. Unfortunately, we live in a time where people are being assholes. So this is not a time where we can kind of separate between what is observational and what’s just being offensive. But during this time, you know, Larry David has been able to make decades out of just allowing those things to happen. But Seinfeld scripted, these are things, of course, these people were comics, and they were able to, you know, create nuances, but Curb Your Enthusiasm. Literally has people that are comics, everyday people, people that they found off the street, even Jeff garland, like there are people that have done roasts that are just regular people that they’ve pulled and they’ve been placed on the show because it allows access for everybody. A lot of people make comments about Seinfeld, even though, as real comedy lovers, you’ll be able to access it, but normal people can’t access Seinfeld sometimes, and sometimes it had the criticism. Is it elitism, or its ability to only talk about one aspect and not show other aspects, or black people being featured in the show as a savior complex, the saviors, and not necessarily as inserted in those kind of moments of having their own personality. But in curb, it’s a whole nother universe. It’s a better one, even though it’s the it comes from the original, as Jameer says, the balls right, the balls only hold. It’s got to shoot out of somewhere too for everybody to see it. And it’s in practicality that we see curve, because it is real life, like people aren’t even allowed to really see what they’re about to do. So the magic that you’re seeing while we’re unfolding as an audience, so are they. So I think there’s something special to say, because they’re not many shows, especially recorded shows that can even attest to that it’s an amazing thing and for it to have the run that it’s had even longer, or just as long as Seinfeld, it’s amazing people pay to see live shows. People don’t pay to sit at a recording over and over again.

 

Ronald young Jr.  07:42

Carma is talking, of course, about the unscripted nature of Curb Your Enthusiasm versus the scripted nature of Seinfeld. Would you say that that is a strength or weakness of of either?

 

Jameer Pond  07:52

I think it is a weakness, honestly, to be honest, on the improv side, um.

 

Carma Anderson  07:58

It’s actually retro scripting. Just mentioned.

 

Ronald young Jr.  08:01

Oh, and can you explain what retro scripting is, quickly Carma for the listeners?

 

Carma Anderson  08:06

Oh, sure, retro scripting is, in actuality, it is still an aspect of improv, but there is, I don’t want to see the people just coming and being like, hey, yes, and there is a premise, but the the way in which it is executed, is very loose. So they do understand what it’s supposed to be about. However, the actual magic, the day to day, or the the line, is not scripted. In fact, it’s actually prohibited.

 

Ronald young Jr.  08:32

Gotcha. And are they writing it after the after it’s done? Is that what they call a retro scripting?

 

Carma Anderson  08:38

Sometimes, but in this case, for curb. No, they’re not. They’re just, they’re doing beats. Is essentially they may do beats. There may be one to three beats of what the episode is supposed to look like. They have a start, a middle and a finish, and how they get there is really up to the actors.

 

Ronald young Jr.  08:54

Okay, great, Jameer, go ahead.

 

Jameer Pond  08:56

Right? So not exactly complete improv what we’re talking about. So like we could say, like we can say, peppered in with light scripted. You have a premise. There are characters, you know, you’re supposed to get to some place. So we are coming to set with our own ideas, but there is a built parameter around it. When I think about things like Seinfeld and I think about, yeah, they had more parameters, more blockage. They had a network that didn’t allow them to curse, didn’t allow them to make sexual jokes outright, and they still wrote elite episode season after season after season. Now you mentioned that Larry David’s curvy enthusiasm had a longer lineage in terms of timeline, and Seinfeld did, I think it was on for like, 20 years and 12 seasons. I think around there 13 seasons. No, if you see it, he broke up, and he broke up in, uh, he didn’t, he didn’t do whatever.

 

Carma Anderson  09:53

No, you’re right. That wasn’t, that wasn’t the wrong face. That was the face.

 

Jameer Pond  09:57

Okay, got you. So we talk about 20 years. And we talk about pauses in between them. Seinfeld did nine years straight. The show never fell off. They actually wanted to pay him 110 million to keep going to have such structure. And success comes from the writing and the strength of the writing. They had improv moments, but they relied on the writing to really make that point. And I think that that’s a strength.

 

Carma Anderson  10:23

You know, I can agree and still not agree. I do agree everything you’re saying is correct, it is I and I think I did mention they do have improv moments, but I find it weird that you did mention before about the guest stars. And I mean, yes, Seinfeld had the guest stars, but curb your enthusiams, and had the guest stars, like legit, had the guest stars, I mean, from everywhere, people that you didn’t even know. Sometimes the interpolation of them being themselves and being somebody else is amazing, because they don’t even have to be themselves. They can be somebody totally different. Now, there may have been, over the course of Seinfeld’s time, maybe a good 20 guest stars that we know of, but, I mean, there’s like 50 plus that have inserted themselves. You could just have a banging ass year, a banging ass year, right? If Curb Your Enthusiasm was on, I’m sure Gloria would be on the next season. I’m almost positive, right? And now we’re talking about a show that’s able to include other aspects of American culture and the world into a very specific subset. See, Seinfeld only allowed for a certain type of person demographic to access it, similar to how we speak about friends. And a lot of that is because of the confines of it being on the network, and it being a scripted show and having a certain time that it has to go through, but because of curbs, ability to kind of move and shape and shift, it can go with the culture. So as black people, Indian people, Asian, people have breakout years. They can be a part of curve. They can access that whole new demographic, which is why people like us got pulled in, pulled in, pulled in, actively. That’s something that Seinfeld and other scripted shows cannot do. And I think it’s something to talk about comedy and its ability to have inclusion, which a lot of times it’s not able to especially on a platform like HBO.

 

Ronald young Jr.  12:26

Carma, when you talk about accessibility, you I think you’re talking about the representation of black folks on the show, because Seinfeld being a broadcast show versus Kerr being a cable show means that the actual accessibility of black people get into it is going to be Different. So are you talking about representation or accessibility, as in viewing the show.

 

Carma Anderson  12:45

Both, because with that representation, you do the did the accessibility? If I hear that somebody’s going to be on curb, I’m excited, like I’m excited I was excited right to see JB smooth get on curb, right? I’m excited to see vivid a fox, because these are people that, for a time, were very, very much part of the black community, solely like people may known about them, right? But not to the extent, right? I know Jamie smooth. JB, smooth is hooked up with Chris Fox. I love Pooty Tang, like the next comedy Bozo. However, if you didn’t watch that, JB, smooth was probably not an attainable person, even Ella English, like just being a Jamie Fox fan and being able to be like, Oh, that’s Jane Fox aunt. Look at her. Look at her having a second win, right? Being included in those things. Even the whole point about the voter suppression, it’s able to chameleon and change as the times to make it relevant. So maybe this season I didn’t catch this person, but I’ma catch the next person. I’m gonna catch the next person because I’m gonna look I’m gonna wait to look like I get to see Tracy Omen like what? I get to see her be an actual nonsensical person, 30 years later, after she was a young nonsensical person. So as a young comedian, I can see that that never really dies, like you get to see the progression in a way that you can’t see a Seinfeld. It is framed in a time, and that’s fine, but that means the references are going to be older. They’re going to age differently. They’re not going to they’re not going to progress. Now, some things are timeless, absolutely. Some things are never going to change. People are still saying, No soup for you, and that’s amazing, right? But can a motherfucker live a life? Can he I got a t shirt that says it? I made it so it literally is something that goes along with it. And it’s not to undercut Seinfeld, but if black people are having a moment, they’re gonna have a moment on this show on curb.

 

Jameer Pond  14:43

Yes, I must have missed the George Floyd episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm, where they all marched in the street off of feeling guilty about those black dark. Well, I mean, y’all are making curb seem like. Dr Martin Luther King, Jr, was featured on it. All right? Curb is not a black show. And it’s so funny because Kirby enthusiasm rests on the success of Seinfeld. The whole point of this show is, what’s the guy doing after Seinfeld? And he’s doing nothing. He’s living his life comfortably because he ate off of this show that made him do this. So you talk about wrestling off his success, that’s all the show was about. He didn’t have to work. Why? Seinfeld made him a household name, a multi millionaire and able to get his own show. So we can’t talk about resting on success if the whole premise occur is, what’s that guy doing? It only won two Emmys.

 

Carma Anderson  15:50

But it was nominated for 55.

 

Jameer Pond  15:52

It only won two.

 

Carma Anderson  15:55

You won.

 

Jameer Pond  15:57

If I’m on Team Simon now you talk about these characters, I’ma specifically talk about JB Smooth. Shout out to JB Smooth. But if we go, if we’re gonna be honest, he was the black Kramer. He was the black Kramer. He was the brilliant idiot, which actually, in retrospect, lets you know something that one white people could do it and it be called brilliant. But there was a lot of criticism about JB Smooth’s character throughout the show, people calling him a buffoon. People think that he was doing, you know, tributes to to vaudeville and Amos and Andy, and he was the black, clumsy, stupid sidekick. I want to make it clear that Seinfeld occurred it are not black shows, black people have been featured throughout them. I will give you. JB Smooth, Wanda Sykes, Vivid Fox, Elia English, a host of other people were on there, but they weren’t able to have their own world, like they didn’t have their own thing. They were involved in the Larry David universe, so still, the same kind of confines as Seinfeld. So my thing also on guest stars that you mentioned that like, you know, 20, like, maybe 20 people that appeared on Seinfeld. Can I just list you the names of Seinfeld guest stars that were on the course of the show? Please, Courtney Cox, who would go on the star and friends. James Spader, who was a well renowned actor, saw in the blacklist that probably come on now. Jon Favreau, who is an accomplished actor and an accomplished director, part of the Marvel Universe and other films. Terry Hatcher, Desperate Housewives. Brad Garrett, watch that. Everybody loves. Raymond. Lauren Graham, Gilmore Girls, we got Jane leaves, Frazier, Jennifer Brian Cranston, Deborah messing who would go on to see Kristen Davis […] What I’m trying to say, what I’m trying to say the whole book of people peep. What I’m trying to say is people who are Caribbean enthusiasm. Yes, they’re accomplished. But Seinfeld broke stars. Facts, it broke the whole cast. The whole cast is iconic off of Seinfeld. Facts, you you can’t say the same thing in terms of star power that had come out of the manifestation of Seinfeld with curb. There’s nobody who anchored the next generation of television and movies on curb like there was on Seinfeld. That whole stretch extended NBC run to the next to the next century, to the 2000s Will and Grace. Frazier friends, anchor shows. Curb didn’t have that, and we got to stop playing like it did. Shout out to Larry, but it had that same effect. What up Larry? I shouted […]

 

Carma Anderson  18:56

I think Ronald, has a question the Wikipedia list. Let’s talk about the break it down. I knew all the breakdowns, and I’m glad you did, because it gave me some fuel for the no, baby. IQ high over here. I’m with you [….]

 

Ronald young Jr.  19:12

We’ll be back with more Pop Culture Debate Club after this break. Let’s talk a little bit about writing, and more importantly, than writing, or more specific than writing characters. So one time someone asked me, they were like, hey, Ronald, do you like the character of George from Seinfeld? And I’m like, he’s not my favorite. They were like, but you like Larry David? And Curb Your Enthusiasm. Like, yes. They were like, do you know that’s the same person? And I didn’t until they pointed that out. So let’s talk about the comparisons between Larry David, who is George Costanza, and Larry David, who is Larry David. And Curb Your Enthusiasm, karma, I’ll start with you in terms of his depiction on both. What would you say is the main difference between. Who he is on Curb Your Enthusiasm, versus his depiction on Seinfeld?

 

Carma Anderson  20:04

Well, I think that in Seinfeld, he is a buffoon. I think that he, you know, that he literally, George Costanza, walks into good fortune. You know, also from my, just from my recollection, George Costanza. I mean, well, Larry David never killed anybody. George Costanza probably is responsible for, loosely, at least two deaths on the show, you know, and at least, at least two deaths. And I think there’s something and no remorse for it at all. I think the difference is, is that Larry Davis more complex because it is more of himself on curb, I think for Seinfeld, because of the time constraints, because it is a sitcom, if you understand the constructs of how episodic shows run, and just like sketches, you know, there has to Be strong character choices made in a short amount of time to make sure you’re pushing the plot forward. When you have a show where it’s loose and it’s not really necessary, you can revisit some of these things, and you’re not confined to having to file be formulaic about it. You can be you can cultivate a more realistic, slower burn, so to say, for that character. So you don’t have to be as extreme. Whereas, when you’re talking about George Costanza, I mean, from the moment out, he’s a womanizer, you know, he’s a murderer, he is a thief, he is he is not really. He’s not a good friend, he’s cheap, you know, he’s not great to his parents. Um, he’s asked very minimal things of his friends which he cannot follow through on. And his his his psyche is, is very, very fragile. If Larry David doesn’t want to do something, he’s fine with it. Like, for the most part, he’s like, I love an asshole. Like, you know, he literally told his friend, will you just die already? Literally, a year before he died, he told him, would he die already? He didn’t kill him, but he told him. He asked, what you just do it like. And he’s unapologetic, because the people around him accept him as much as they complain. I’m sure Larry David is exactly who he is. George Costanza is not always who he is. He’s a chameleon. You don’t really know how terrible a person he is until it’s too fucking late. So, you know, I think the difference is that Larry is more of a true version of whatever amalgamation he has created for that character than he is as George Costanza on the show, and more likable. I don’t like George either. He is my least favorite, just because they all are terrible people. But I think he is the most terrible of all people, to the point where it’s like you have to laugh because you’re uncomfortable sometimes, of how he is on Seinfeld, whereas I’m laughing at Larry, because I’m like, no shit, I’d say that. Like, I mean, like, I it is what it is. It’s a little bit more honest and more accessible than the other shit, because George is a terrible person.

 

Ronald young Jr.  23:13

Jameer, compare these two performances of George versus George in real life, if, as I’m calling it?

 

Jameer Pond  23:21

Yeah, I remember, like, I saw this interview that Jason Alexander did, and he was talking about Seinfeld, and he was talking about, like, think season three, what season like, one of the seasons he was going through the script, and he was just like, how ridiculous it was. Like, he called Larry David over. And he was like, Larry, like, I understand George, but we’ve just gone too far left. Like, George is eating out of the garbage. He’s pushing people out of the way to leave fires. He’s doing all these like crazy shit. Like this is really unbelievable. And Larry David looked at Jason Alexander, and he was just like, well, that’s what I did.

 

Ronald young Jr.  24:01

I remember this.

 

Jameer Pond  24:02

Yeah, Larry David, no matter how what you want to shape it up is, is a direct mirror to George Costanza. Sure embellished, but this is who this man is, disgusting, a non redeemable character, maybe the worst, it’s up in the air for me personally, but on a show with nobody, where nobody’s redeemable, he was the shining star of shit, and it’s because this is who Larry David is as a human being.

 

Ronald young Jr.  24:38

Let’s do a quick thought experiment. So let’s say like, I think, in order to like address the argument of one coming first, let’s say that we were to switch it, and instead of Seinfeld coming out first, Curb Your Enthusiasm, came out first. And of course, we’d have to adjust the purpose a bit. But say it’s largely still the same. Show it’s. This television producer slash rich person who’s living his life. And then after that, Seinfeld, the show, comes out. Do you think that they still have the same amount of success with the same connection? It’s still Larry David making both. However he’s making Curb Your Enthusiasm first, and then he makes Seinfeld next, the exact same ways with similar connections. And, of course, we address the premise, like I said about curb. But do you think the show still have the same success? Carma, I’ll start with you.

 

Carma Anderson  25:28

Um, I do. You know it’s, I think it’s very hard. I’ve never met someone who’s not a who’s a Seinfeld fan that’s not a curb. Your a curb, your enthusiasm fan. I think it’s very hard, and I think this is probably one of the most difficult debates for me, because I just think if you like one, you’re gonna like the other, because it’s just, it’s, it’s not as cut and dry as being like, Well, I’m a Batman fan. I’m a Superman fan. Who gives a fuck. But this is very like, it’s divergent, and almost like the way that they’re different, but they also they mesh with each other, because they are in a universe almost like a Marvel movie like it, one does depend on the other. And I think if Curb was first, I think that it might be difficult to sell people on watching Seinfeld, because it would just seem like a documentary about a cranky old Jewish man, instead of looking at the depth of and then, like what I want to watch a bunch of other, you know, cranky old people, white people, Jewish people, wasps, like, eccentric, you know, real life racist, like, you know, like, why would I want to watch this show, right? Why would I want to do this? I just saw this one. The man just yelled at a blind man trying to move his shit into the apartment. Like, why do I want to watch that show? But I think, I still think, though, and the same token, it worked. Because part of the charm to Seinfeld and curb is that we see things in ourselves that we don’t like, and we’re able to laugh at them. And I think looking at the realness of both shows, you know, but just the accessibility of it being like for me as a comedian, it gave me a thing before we had Instagram and before the pandemic, anyone could be funny, if you put them in the room with the right people, you could get someone to make a joke about a baggy crotch, right, and not be weird about it, right? The Coronavirus are too fucking big, and I told you this, right, so you could have this conversation, because these are things, right? These are things that we thought I’ve been in a bar and looked at a guy with a baggy crotch, and I’m like, What’s up with this dude? Like, I’ve had this moment and I’ve pointed and gone, what? And my friends know I’m the terrible person, so they’ll go, go see what’s up, and I’ll do it, because that’s me, in a way, I’m Larry David.

 

Ronald young Jr.  27:59

Jameer, switch them. What do you think?

 

Jameer Pond  28:01

Yeah, uh, so I guess just if I’m living in this world where Curb is coming out before, um, Seinfeld, I don’t think it’ll have the same legacy. To be honest, I think Seinfeld did a lot to not only change the way sitcoms will look, but also made certain things like popping. I think that George Costanza’s image of a balding man with the cul de sac community around his head, along with people like Uncle Phil and Sherman Hemsley. But George Costanza, on a mainstream level, made that popping. It was able to for Larry David to come through. And people, you know, not me, Larry, shout out to you, but people might not say, oh, Larry David’s the most attractive gentleman, you know, but he was able to come through the door because of the signature hairstyle that was popularized by George Costanza. So I just wanted to say that if I’m looking at the time, though, Seinfeld was an avant garde show. Curb is a avant garde show. I think what we have was just the right amount of avant garde to come through and change the game. Seinfeld didn’t do well his first, like, three seasons. It took, like, they had to get, like, really, like prop it up. It was about to get canceled and everything, but the network gave it a chance. When we talk about Seinfeld and curb, I think curve might have been too avant garde for 1989 we’re putting on this guy who does nothing, and he lives off the success of this show that nobody’s really invested in, because it doesn’t exist, because Seinfeld isn’t present yet, so we’re going off this guy who does nothing, and it’s improv in 1989 if that comes first, and Seinfeld doesn’t give parameters to break down this door of observational comedy, then we just have betting a show on a failed COVID. Median in Larry David, why would I want to watch this show? Why would I be invested? And then we got JB smooth. Who’s JB Smooth? It took the right amount of ingredients, the right amount of writing, the right amount of outside the box thinking to make Seinfeld work.

 

Ronald young Jr.  30:17

We’ll be back with more PCDC after this break.

 

Ronald young Jr.  30:29

You each have a real time 30 seconds to do a 30 seconds, and I will be timing you to do a closing argument. Carma we’ll start with you. You have 30 seconds.

 

Carma Anderson  30:41

Okay, so while I will say that, you know, I’m a fan of both huge and it’s difficult, I will, you know, make the play for curb, because it’s originality. I don’t want it to mean Seinfeld. But we have sitcoms. We have sitcoms where people are doing nothing, yes, friends, people are doing nothing Living Single people are doing nothing like and it may have been the progenitor of that, but to have people doing nothing that aren’t trained comedians, that don’t have a lot to do and still create this comedic gold, and create characters that are able to be featured in season two and come back in season seven and still be relevant, there’s something to be said about that. All right, not having the network part to be cultivated and to be as offensive and people still wanted to come back 13 seasons over and over again, I yield my time. If there’s anything […]

 

Ronald young Jr.  31:35

Jameer, you have 30 seconds go.

 

Jameer Pond  31:38

I think Seinfeld has arguably the greatest core cast ever assembled, combined with the greatest guest stars and guest features ever assembled like a well orchestrated car and ran into still in its prime and then left shows you know not no knocks occur, but that last season fall off ish a little bit, and apology and apologist as well. I thought that the season series finale of Seinfeld was one of the greatest series finales ever. And I know a lot of people hated it because it didn’t happen the way they wanted it to happen. But what it taught those people is responsibility. You fuck up the world for nine seasons, you gonna go to jail. And I know people in our used to hearing that or going through that, because they able to get away scot free and just live a certain life. But Larry David wrote retribution for Seinfeld series finale, and people hated it. He apologized for it in curb series finale, but we won’t take away. Is a grand of retribution for horrible characters that deserve to go to jail many a times during the course of the show. Brilliant show, brilliant cast. Shot to Seinfeld.

 

Ronald young Jr.  32:50

Are y’all ready for my ruling?

 

Jameer Pond  32:53

I’m ready man.

 

Ronald young Jr.  32:55

Carma, I can’t rule until you say I’m ready.

 

Jameer Pond  32:58

Okay, I’m ready, Ronald.

 

Ronald young Jr.  33:00

Okay, good. All right, this is a tough, tough debate, because I like both of these shows. I’m a fan of both of these shows. I’m a super Seinfeld fan, so it’s very easy for me to transition. As a matter of fact, I read the premise for Curb Your Enthusiasm, and I believe I started watching this show back when you were getting the Netflix discs in the mail. So I was always excited when a new series came out, like, oh, I could watch it on Netflix, and so I’d watch it. And I really enjoyed Curb Your Enthusiasm as it came out, especially at the time that it came out. It was just at a time when HBO really was beginning to blossom in a very specific way. It was kind of like HBO was giving us, like, a primer on how to watch it, because it started in 1999 right? And it was still like HBO was still becoming the HBO that we know and love today and Curb Your Enthusiasm. Was just one of the entries in there. I mean, also the sopranos was on there. I mean, also there was a show called Rome. There was just so many good things six feet under you know what? I mean. There was just so many good shows that were on HBO at the time, you could just throw a dart and hit a good show on HBO. So I’m saying all that to say that, like, HBO was very good, and in the business of saying like, hey, do you want to try something here? Let’s try it, because we’ll and we’ll give you space to try it. However, the reason why that Larry David was given that space to try it was because Seinfeld already worked. They knew that Seinfeld worked, so they knew it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch for Curb Your Enthusiasm to do something that was super experimental in this universe. Because they’re like, well, it already worked there. And we’re HBO, we’re thinking out of the box. I would even argue in some cases that I don’t know if Curb Your Enthusiasm works on any other network, except for HBO and except at that time, which is important to note, because the main question I asked is, if we swapped those two things, would it still work? And I don’t know if it does, because I think of all the things that you think about. That work for Seinfeld are specifically work for network television. They specifically are the fact that in those days, network television would give you more time to let your thing try to work. If your thing doesn’t work in one episode, in one scene, sometimes your show’s canceled. These days, you could be on Netflix and have a great first season. They’ll be like, we just don’t feel like doing it. You’re not getting a season two. Seinfeld gets three seasons to find its footing, and thank goodness it did, because it finally does eventually, and we all love the show. And I think because of the ways in which Seinfeld teaches us about George Costanza, it teaches us the pacing of Jerry Seinfeld. All of that has to exist in your mind before you can watch an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm and be like, I’m ready to go. I’m ready to go. The only way I would compare these to say is there’s a lot of people that like the show. Nathan for you, the only people who like the show rehearsal are typically people who also like the show. Nathan for you, what you what you would find difficult is to find people who just like the rehearsal, who have never watched Nathan for you.

 

Carma Anderson  36:12

And they’re strange for only liking that. That’s weird.

 

Ronald young Jr.  36:16

It’s exactly unfortunately. And I think, I think, you know this is true Carma. Unfortunately, I think that kind of exists for curb as well, because it’s very hard to go […]

 

Carma Anderson  36:28

If I know, I’m not saying it.

 

Ronald young Jr.  36:30

That’s perfectly fine. But if you walk into an episode of curb with no Seinfeld backing and no Seinfeld education in your mind, I feel like watching that show would be like, what is what is this? This is just like an like an old rich man just kind of being a jerk to everyone, as opposed to, like, having that set in your mind and knowing that moves forward. It’s hard for me to say Seinfeld is better than curb but I will say this is one of the rare cases, normally, especially in Pop Culture Debate Club, where I think, like, because people argue, well, it was first, so therefore it’s better. I don’t like that argument. But in this case, without Seinfeld, there could be no Curb. And for that reason, I have to give this one to Mr. Jameer Pond.

 

Jameer Pond  37:14

Thank you, Ron […] Don’t take away my win for me. It was incredible win. We got to come back. There’s one one now.

 

Carma Anderson  37:33

Yeah, I really think y’all gaining on you.

 

Ronald young Jr.  37:36

Welcome back. We’re already we’re already scheming of ways to have you both on but thank you so much for being with us today.

 

Carma Anderson  37:41

Thank you.

 

Jameer Pond  37:43

Thank you, Carma love you.

 

Carma Anderson  37:44

Thank you, love you too, Jameer. We still friends y’all.

 

Ronald young Jr.  37:52

Thanks again to Carma Anderson and Jameer Pond. You can find them both on social media, and if you happen to be in New York City, be sure to check out Carma at the Second City, New York. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Debate Club if you haven’t yet now is a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You’ll get bonus content like Carma and Jameer discussing their previous PCDC battle and how they maintained their friendship during disagreements. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple podcasts or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That’s lemonadapremium.com.

 

Ronald young Jr.  38:25

Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC. It’s produced by Jamela Zarha Williams, Kryssy Pease,  Dani Matias and me, Ronald young Jr. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our Senior Vice President of weekly content  and production is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer.   Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.