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In the third episode of our series about The Coalition to Advance Public Safety (CAPS) and its partner organizations making a difference in communities across the U.S., we take a closer look at Baton Rouge. Antohony Smith is the Executive Director of Cities United which works closely with the local community street team to reduce crime and boost violence prevention efforts. He tells Travon why this work starts with shifting people’s perception of public safety, nurturing relationships with city leaders, and saving seats for everyone at the table.

Thank you to the Coalition to Advance Public Safety, and in particular Cities United for making today’s conversation possible. To learn more about CVI, and the individual organizations at work in this coalition, visit https://www.capsinitiative.org.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Anthony Smith, Travon Free

Travon Free  00:29

Hello and welcome to Good Things, I’m Travon Free and thank you for joining us for part three of our four part series with the coalition to advance public safety, or CAPS, if you’re new to the program, CAPS is a collective working to expand and strengthen the community violence intervention ecosystem by providing resources, technical support and sustainable infrastructure to intervention programs in the cities and communities most impacted by Gun Violence. Today, we’re zooming in on Baton Rouge, and we’re really excited to be joined by Anthony Smith, the executive director of Cities United, and he’s working with the Baton Rouge community street team. Since 2011 Cities United has been a leader in advocating for holistic approaches to gun violence, while working to end the epidemic of shootings and homicides among young black men. Now, Cities United is a connector, a facilitator and an incubator of meaningful, long term change, building a movement of cities, community organizations, public safety advocates and young leaders to create safe, healthy and hopeful communities. Anthony Smith, welcome to Good Things.

 

Anthony Smith  02:16

Thanks for having me. I’m really excited about the conversation.

 

Travon Free  02:21

Yeah, I want to jump right into it and talk about your organization now. Your organization’s been around for over a decade now, and you’ve talked about wanting to find a space where you could help young kids that were in similar situations that you were in. And can you talk a little bit about the work that you do and why it’s personally important to you.

 

Anthony Smith  02:41

Yeah, so Cities United has been around since 2011 right? So we’re in our 13th year. It was founded by Mayor Nutter, former mayor of Philadelphia, man landrues, the former mayor of New Orleans, came together with Dr Bell, who runs Casey Family Programs, and a couple other partners from the campaign for black male achievement, and then also the National League of city cities. And it was really Mayor Nutter and Dr Bell had this conversation around the fact that we were losing too many young black men and boys to gun violence in our country at that time. And there wasn’t a national conversation happen, so the the five of them came together and built out this organ Well, this initiative that was then Cities United. At the time, I was working in Louisville, Kentucky for Mayor Fisher, helping him open up his office for safe, healthy and hopeful neighborhoods, and that was focused on reducing through homicides and suicides and overdose in our city. So while we joined Cities United in 2013 all of my work before Cities United and at Cities United has been really focused on making sure that we’re creating pathways for young black folks, especially young black men, to have that first, second, third, fourth, opportunity to succeed, because I don’t think we give enough space for young black men in this country to really find their path and find their way. And when you think about how it relates to my life, right? I mean, I disconnected from school and about the sixth grade, really didn’t understand the value of it, see the reason behind it, but always knew I wanted to go to college. Ended up dropping out of high school, but then found my way to college, found my way to the work. And when I figured out what the purpose was and what my purpose was, it was really about finding opportunities to continue to work with and on behalf of Young folks, especially young folks who look like me and have been really blessed along the way, and really find myself in a path that led me to now leading a national organization that the younger Anthony would have never thought about, but over the time and over the work, it just really led me to this space where now I get to lead the Organization that helps cities across the country think about creating better outcomes for young black men and boys and their families. So it’s just been, it’s been a wild journey, man, and it’s just one of those things that you could not write the script for, but you got to enjoy the ride while you’re on it.

 

Travon Free  05:15

No, absolutely. And you talk about, you know, you were born and raised in Louisville, right?

 

Anthony Smith  05:20

Yep.

 

Travon Free  05:21

What does safety mean to you growing up there?

 

Anthony Smith  05:24

So it was different, right? So I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky, in the West End of Louisville, and the West End is comprised of nine neighborhoods, and of those nine neighborhoods, about 80 to 85% are black folks. I grew up around the corner from my grandmother, around the corner from my aunt and I had a safety net that I grew up in the western of Louisville. By the time I turned 13, my mom had remarried and we moved out to the East End, where it was predominantly white, and I had to find new safety nets in places there. But family has always been what safety was for me, been around folks who look like me, helped me feel safe and just been supported. So safety for me shifted from time to time based on where we lived in Louisville, but Louisville has always been home. All of the work I do in Louisville and have done in Louisville has been in and around those nine neighborhoods that I talked about in the West End cities. United is still headquartered in Louisville, and we’re headquartered in one of those neighborhoods. It’s called the Russell neighborhood. It’s an historic black neighborhood that used to be called this Harlem of the South. It’s where a lot of artists came through, a lot of businesses, and all of that stuff was happening before urban renewal and redlining. So those neighborhoods have been the neighborhoods that have experienced the most community violence, but I still feel the safest there, because it is around being with my folks and being with the people and being with folks who I know see me and folks who I know love me and care for me. So safety really for me is that being around people who I know see me, care about me and want the best for me.

 

Travon Free  07:06

Absolutely, and you know, to pivot back to Cities United. I know the organization prides itself on the holistic way it approaches, you know, public health and how it addresses the gun violence that’s impacting black men and boys all over this country, and specifically where you’re doing your work. And so, you know, if I’ve learned one thing, and I hope the audience learns one thing through this too, is that violence really is a public health epidemic, right? I feel like that’s something we could probably all agree on at this point, and I feel like this is a serious issue in that regard. And I wonder, do you think that the average person realizes just how serious the issue is, and what do you think the national conversation around it is right now? Do you think we can even improve on it?

 

Anthony Smith  07:53

Yeah, it’s a good question, man. And I think you know, when we think about this work, I think the call to make this a public health issue has been on the forefront, and advocates face and advocates, voices and other people, have been calling for this to be a public health crisis for generations and then, and it goes back to this conversation I started with Mayor Nutter. I think he saw it as a public health crisis right and did not have the right tools and the right support to move in the way that he needed to. And I think what we’ve seen, especially with this current administration, is that the rally cry has gotten louder, right? We have a we have a an administration who talks about this issue, who puts resources together for this issue, who has a surgeon general who puts out an advisory that says we’re dealing with a public health crisis. But I think because of the way this country thinks about public safety, it’s hard for us to put this thing that we have called have focused on around criminal for so long into a public health bucket, right? Because people believe that folks choose this, folks decide this, and folks are just violent period that the public health so they can’t see a public health approach fixing this, right? So I think our mental models around public safety and around gun violence are keep going back to criminal and keep going back to being tough on crime, keep going back to we’re dealing with thugs and criminals, and we’re trying to move that in a different way. And I think even the folks who live in the communities where violence is happening want something different, but don’t know what that something is right. So when we talk about community violence intervention, and we talk about all these models that are helpful, if folks don’t understand them, then it’s going to be hard for them to advocate for so I think we got a whole lot more work to do, and I think that work actually starts on the ground, making sure that the folks who live in the communities who experience this directly and indirectly. Quickly understand that there’s other opportunities and other models, so that then they can advocate for what they really want to need. And until then, we’re going to always say we want more public safety. And the way we get to public safety is going to be the traditional law enforcement way, and it’s going to continue to be hard pressed for us to sell this as a public health crisis.

 

Travon Free  10:19

Right, no that totally makes sense. I mean, you know, to pivot to the work you’re doing in Baton Rouge, and how it compares to other cities that were, I think, there were 31 homicides in the first quarter of 2024 and I think that’s doubling the number in the same period in 2023 and you know, it’s easy to look at stats and pass judgment and make a judgment on what you think is happening somewhere. But what else can you tell us about the violence that’s happening in that city, and what are we not seeing when we look at the numbers?

 

Anthony Smith  10:54

Yeah, I think one of the things we’ve got to understand that violence fluctuate right? And it works in cycles, and I think for too long, Baton Rouge and other places have not had the right infrastructure and the right investments and the work that we’re talking about and in the system and the ecosystem that we’re talking about. And I think, you know, for me and for us, it’s through this work, it’s hard to measure success year by year. Even though that’s the easiest to go, it’s the hardest to really measure, because at the end of the day, you’ve got to think about, what does the ecosystem look like? How are we investing in the ecosystem? Do we have the right of number of people to get to those who are most at risk? Right? So I think right. And I think, you know, it’s not just on the CVI ecosystem. It’s also on the other partners inside of the public health cycle, to be working public public safety ecosystem, to be working in partnership to make this happen. But I think you know, to your point, the missing pieces that folks don’t see is the disinvestment. We don’t take the disinvestment into consideration, I was just on the call with some folks from Topeka, and they were talking about that their community centers are closing at six o’clock during the week. Kids don’t have places to go, so we continue to disinvest in young folks, right? But expect something to come out on the other side, right, and then we also got to understand that guns are accessible. They’re in our communities. Folks get them, we’re not helping people with conflict resolution. We’re not helping folks understand how to mitigate conflict. We’re not paying attention to social media, where a lot of these beefs are happening. So I think there’s we ask folks to invest in community violence intervention, and it’s a CVI, but they’ve got to invest at a level that can help meet the needs that we’re trying to get to. But CVI is just a piece of it, right? We also got to have the wraparound services. We also got to have the preventative services in place so that we can break up that pipeline, right? So I think investing in this work in five years, hope to see some reductions, but it’s still you got more. You got to invest long term. Lastly, I’ll say to you, with Baton Rouge and other places, this issue is still a political hot topic, so you always have folks pushing back and forth to say, invest. Don’t invest. Oh, it’s not working. Look at the numbers, it’s telling you it’s not working, but never celebrate the year, because the year before that, they saw a 30% reduction right from the year before. Right? So it’s an ebb and flow, and until we truly invest completely in this work for the long haul, we’re going to continue to see these ups and downs, because we never take the holistic approach to solving this issue?

 

Travon Free  13:41

No, absolutely. And you know, even with the trends and the changes in the homicide rates, the city of Baton Rouge has recognized that the community is important into making these changes. And from what you see, is there any progress that’s been made this year in pushing back and combating some of this?

 

Anthony Smith  13:59

Yeah, and I think, you know, at the end of the day is the stories and the narratives are important to this work. And I think what has happened in Baton Rouge through our partnerships with the whole caps collective and especially the folks at the community based public safety collective and helping to build out the Baton Rouge street team. But also think about, if you think about the mayor’s initiative around safe, healthy and hopeful, our initiative to really bring community together. They meet monthly at a big table where all kind of stakeholders come together, and they think about the work in partnership with each other. They are telling the story of the frontline workers and the people who are doing the work, but most importantly, the folks who are impacted by the work, right? So I think the stories and the narratives that are going to counteract it are going to be the stories of the people who are doing the work, right? I think, you know, at the end of the day, what we try to say all the time is like folks need to understand what it is somebody on the front line. Is doing on a day to day, knowing how many conflicts they actually intervene in, how many lives they save throughout a week, what don’t make the news is that this shooting that did not happen, right, and we as a field got to get better at telling the story of the shootings that didn’t happen, because there’s way more shooters that didn’t happen, that did happen that make that number where it is.

 

Travon Free  15:24

Yeah. I mean, it’s, like when, when the news never tells you how many planes landed safely today. They only tell you about the ones that crash, right.

 

Anthony Smith  15:33

Right, and that’s all we know, right? We know when the shooting happened. We know when somebody died, when we just don’t know, and we have not figured out a way to tell the story of the interruptions and what didn’t happen, and the stories of case somebody who was a shooter, who’s now in college, now have a business, because all of these things happen in Baton Rouge and in many cities across the country, you identify somebody who did not see a way forward and saw the gun as the only option to resolve an issue who now working on the front line, going to school, having a family and being a part of the community and now saying, Okay, our cause harm, let me fix some of that. We don’t tell those stories. We don’t tell them enough, right? Because we feel like folks are going to always have to be defined by one of their biggest mistake. And that’s not the case.

 

Travon Free  16:31

We’re going to take a quick break, but we’ll be back with more good things.

 

Anthony Smith  16:49

You know, I think, I think when the average person thinks about public safety you know, people think about police or firefighters or an ambulance. And you know, we know from talking to people like you and examining this work that we’ve been covering on this podcast, public safety is so much broader than that. And so I would ask you, like, what are some aspects of public safety that we don’t usually think about?

 

Anthony Smith  19:20

Yeah, and I tell folks is all that’s the same vein that you that that most people want for their family. They want a safe and affordable housing, right? I want to be in a neighborhood that I feel safe in, that I am safe in. I want a quality education for me and my child, right? Having a quality education as part of the safety ecosystem, having access to a job that pays you wages, where you can take care of yourself and your family as a part of the safety ecosystem, making sure that I can walk in my neighborhood, right? So the walkability of my neighborhood is safety, right? Access to grocery stores is safety. Access to healthcare systems is safety, right? So for when you when you tell folks that we want to make sure everybody have the same thing, you have people move into certain neighborhoods because they consider them safe, right, so if you know this neighborhood is safe, and you know why it’s safe, that’s the exact damn thing that the other neighborhood needs, right, so why not make it that way? And why do we gotta act like and we also want safety, means that when a police officer shows up, they see me as the person or people that they’re here to protect and serve, right, not to not to interrogate, not to act like I’m a part of the problem, but to see me as part of the solution, right? So safety, for me and for Cities United, it really is around making sure that our communities have access to all of those things that we know are the true forms of safety and the true forms of public safety. And it’s not about law enforcement. It’s not about jails and it’s not about detention centers. It’s about the prevention and intervention strategies that we know we can put in place that allows folks to live life, live out their purpose, find their dreams, and if we really want to get down to it, get that white picket fence and whatever what neighborhood they want to live in and allow their kids to run up and down the street without any of those fears that we did that we know that could be real. So safety, we’ve got to get away from police, law enforcement, jails, detention centers, EMS, fire and all of those things. They’re a part of the ecosystem, but most of those are reactionary, right, they come in an emergency, right? And we should not be waiting for public safety. Our public safety should not only be when an emergency has happened, it should be all the time.

 

Travon Free  21:51

Right, yeah. I mean, it seems like, I guess, the correct way to see how this formula should be shaped is, you know, the community is the preventative measure for things like crime and the things that happen in our community that make our communities feel unsafe, because we were the first ones there. And, like, it’s like you said, like, you know, the police and everyone else is a reaction to those things. And so I think, you know, a big part of it is a lot of communities rely on the police for safety and rely on the police to be a stop or preventative measure when they’re really just a reactionary measure. And, you know, I think a lot of communities probably are investing money into the police with that level of thinking, you know, seeing them as preventative and not reactive, right? And, you know, I think I would imagine you would want some of that money yourself for the work you need to do, right?

 

Anthony Smith  22:44

Just a little bit, man, just a little bit.

 

Travon Free  22:48

The public housing, education, like the economic nature in which so much of like you said, what makes a good community, a good community, a safe community, a safe community and an unsafe community, an unsafe community. You know, it literally boils down to the economics. And it’s people going, I can’t afford to eat, I can’t afford a roof over my head, and you aren’t investing in my community, and what am I supposed to do, right? And and putting people in this position where they have to figure out how to survive, it’s it becomes unfortunate, and it’s always black and brown communities that tend to find themselves, you know, in that position. And so to carry that forward, and talking about culture of violence and prevention, how do we interrupt this culture of violence? Can you break down violence prevention for us?

 

Anthony Smith  23:37

Yeah, I think you know, at the end of the day, you know how to interrupt this cycle of violence. Is really creating an ecosystem where we can identify, engage and support those who are most at risk, right? So really creating this system and this and this way of work where we can say, hey, we know based on Anthony’s background, right? Who he hangs out with where he lives, been shot, or whatever, that he’s potentially going to be the next shooter or the next victim. We need to get to him, get the right folks to him, trusted messengers, folks who can know how to have that conversation and help them get to something different, right? So it really is about that ecosystem that I’m sure you’ve heard about through this series and we’ve been talking about today, is that that system has got to be really robust, and it’s got to be really clear about who is working for it, who is working with because not everybody in the neighborhoods that we’re talking about are going to use guns to solve issues, right, so we’re talking about a small population inside of a communities that are those who are most prone to be a perpetrator or be a victim. So creating a system where we can identify, engage and support them is going to be key, which means you got to have good wraparound services. So once I get on the street and identify Anthony, how do I move him from a. Where he’s at to where he wants to be, right? What’s the pathways? How do I make sure if he wants to go back to school, what does that look like? Wants to get a job? How do we do that? So how do you create that system of that’s the intervention that prevention really, is, how do we make sure that as I’m going through my life, that I don’t run into those roadblocks and those barriers that I know could put you on the pathway right? How do I make sure you stay in school and get the best education? How do I make sure that we have youth programming around you so that you can make sure that you have the you get the mentors you need, you get the youth development that you need, and you feel like you are part of the community. How to also make sure that your family has access to jobs with livable wages, that they can afford to buy homes, they can afford to send you to summer camp, they can afford to eat and get the groceries and things that they need, right? So when you were talking earlier, right? A lot of this is because we as a country and as cities and states have disinvested and a number of neighborhoods and have not found our way back to supporting those neighborhoods in the way that we need to right. So when you talk about that chunk of money that you talked about earlier, it really is not just for the work that the intervention work that we do in the prevention work, is just investing in the communities and the people that we know who live in those communities, and being real serious about it, right? If we know you need a hospital in your neighborhood, build a hospital in your neighborhood. If we know we not put a new school here in 30 years, put a new school here and give folks access to it, right? If we know we’ve been talking about food deserts and food, whatever you want to call them, for generations, and nobody’s figured out a strategy how to put groceries back in neighborhoods, it don’t make sense to me. Man that this country, who can do all of the things that we do, cannot figure out how to take care of his people. Is a wild thing, and so therefore we have to come up with alternative methods and alternative strategies to keep our community safe when the government’s job should be keeping us safe, right and partnering with community to do so. So at the end of the day, prevention, for me, is just around the real investment that cities and governments need to make in communities and the intervention work that’s creating that ecosystem where you can really identify, engage and support those who are already in the pipeline, so that they don’t harm anybody else, or harm themselves or get harmed themselves. What does that system look like, and how do we move it right? So all of it’s going to take investment, but all of it’s going to take really investment in those folks who come from the community, who know the community, who are trusted by the community, and we’ve got to make sure that we’re putting those resources in their hands.

 

Travon Free  27:52

We need to take a quick break, but we’ll be back with more good things in just a minute.

 

Travon Free  30:17

I want to pivot a little bit and talk more about the partnerships that are required to do this kind of work. And you know, I know it’s impossible to do this kind of work and do it well without the help of local organizations. Who have roots in these communities, the people who feel comfortable engaging with people in these communities. And I know Cities United works with residents to develop safety plans in these cities, to help the most at risk people in so many of these communities. And you know, I’d ask you, how do you go about identifying and prioritizing the places that need help the most?

 

Anthony Smith  31:05

Yeah, so data is a big piece of that, right? Every city we go into, we help them, pull the data, and based on that data, we identify locations by either zip code or by neighborhoods that are most impacted by this issue. So that’s where you identify. Even though we think about citywide strategies, we know those citywide strategies got to be really focused on the communities and the people who are most at risk. So data matters, right? So you start with the data, and I think you’ve got to, you got to look at the data consistently, because things shifts and change, and you got to be as nimble with the with the where the data and where issues incidents are happening, but then, once you figure out where, you got to then identify the key trusted partners in those communities, right? You got to go to those communities. You got to spend time in those communities, and you got to talk. You got to talk to folks who, who will help you identify who the trusted organizations are who are doing the work. Because every city we go into, right from Baton Rouge to Topeka to New Orleans to Toledo, all the cities, there’s always somebody doing work. There’s always somebody who cares deeply about the people who are trying to put this together. And you got to start building with those folks, right? We do a lot of our work with the mayor’s offices and the cities and helping them. They usually also know the key players as well, whether they work with them or not. They know who they are. So we so we could do a good assessment, just by a site visit and taking a tour of the community and getting a better understanding of who’s doing what. But there’s also a way, you know, you can look at the at the at the local news, especially the local newspaper and news, and whoever they’re talking about, who’s doing the work are also the people who you want to make sure you have conversations with. But then you got to figure out, like, who, how do you bring all of those folks to the table? Because you, as you said earlier, coordination and collaboration is not easy, and you got to create this table where everybody feels welcome and feel heard and understands what the big picture is, but also see how they tie into the big picture. So we spend a lot of time. We have a roadmap to safe, healthy and hopeful communities. That’s our planning tool that we work in partnership with cities. We take them through a pre planning phase, which is where you identify the key stakeholders. You bring folks to the table. You are making sure that the political will is in place. So you’re spending a lot of time just bringing building out tables and trying to get people to move in. Then you move into the constructing the plan, like, how do we get you to get this comprehensive plan done, and that’s more community engagement and more building with folks. And then it’s the ideal of like developing the plan and putting it out, and that’s more time you spend with community. So it’s all about bringing community together. Each layer of the process, you’ll have some key folks who will stay with you the long haul. You have some folks who come and go out of the process, but it really is around creating a big table with one vision that everybody can get behind and sit at the table with, right? So we try to do that at every city, not saying it’s easy in every city, not saying it works in every city, but the goal is is for the mayor and their teams to build out as big as tables as possible, and bring in your community based partners, your philanthropy, your business, but most importantly, community members, so that they can all work in partnership together.

 

Travon Free  34:32

In terms of when you’re working with city leadership and people at that level. Talk to me about, you know, what those partnerships are like, and why you might feel having those partnerships are essential to the reduction of gun violence.

 

Anthony Smith  34:46

Yeah, any mayor or any elected official at the local level, or most any level, tell you the number one. Their number one priority is keeping people safe right. They got voted in on the most of them run on public safety. Most of them run on reducing crime. Most of them run on making sure everybody in every neighborhood is safe. So that’s the issue that they think about every day. I think part of the part of our work is helping them see the bigger picture of it, and not just relying on their law enforcement. And we believe that mayor, city managers and other local leaders are very important in this work, because they’re usually the executive, the CEO, they get to set the vision. They get to set the tone. They’re in charge of the policy. They’re in charge of the budgets for the city. Most cities where the mayor is a strong mayor, they present their budget to the council. So there, their budget really talks about their values and where they want to see the city going. So we can work in partnership with mayors to get them to understand that it’s going to take a all of city approach. So we need you to be thinking about public safety through all of your departments, like, what can your Parks and Rec do? What can your economic development do? What can your animal control? Whatever it is, how do you bring them all into this public safety conversation, and when you put your resources out, how do you allocate those in the right way? Right so just helping mayors really think through that process and really think about their voice as a champion for the work, their voice as the moral voice of the city that set the vision. So for us, cities are super important. Counties are important because they have the resources to really think about. Not only how do we create an Office of Violence Prevention to lead the work, but how do we bring other departments into that conversation so that we can have all the wraparound services that we need? But then also using mayors and their teams, they have convening power so they can convene all the other key stakeholders in a way that a lot of people can’t. So that’s the importance of making sure that government, local governments at the table to help champion the work, to help convene, to help lead and guide, but also to help resource it. Another thing I’ll say on that piece is that a lot of times when grants come out from the federal level or the state level, they usually go through cities, so making sure that cities apply for these grants, and that they’re applying for these grants in partnership with folks who can really get the work done, that’s also key and important to the work as well.

 

Travon Free  37:20

Yeah. I mean, it’s so clear that this kind of work requires comprehensive, long term approaches that, you know, people like you have to be at the forefront of and be willing to stick with, to see ourselves on the other side of it, right, and to, like, recognize the difficulty that’s involved in doing this work. And you know, hopefully, you know, creating a system that can be implemented in other cities all across America. And so, you know, recently we talked to Aqeela Sherrills for example, in Newark, and we talked to him about his street team and the team that he started out there. And I’m curious, was the Baton Rouge community street team an extension of the work that was being done in Newark?

 

Anthony Smith  37:56

Yeah, so the Newark Baton Rouge saw what was going on in Newark and partnering with Aqeela and them to come and build out the Baton Rouge street team. So again, you know, the big piece of this is identifying shining examples of stuff that’s working and not recreating the wheel right? So Aqeela was able to get on the ground with satiria and other folks in Baton Rouge and really help them build out that street team, and give them some of the same framing, right? But again, being really, really thoughtful about, how do you make this Baton Rouge and not Newark, right? Because, again, Baton Rouge has a different flavor than Newark, so Aqeela and the team are on the ground, on the regular, really building those relationships and making sure that they are making this about Baton Rouge, but giving them that same strength function that that that they used in Newark to really get this up and running. So Aqeela and the collective have been working in Baton Rouge, I want to say, since about 2018 the same time that we started, because we Baton Rouge went through our roadmap Academy so that they can learn the holistic approach to reducing community violence in their space, but also working with it killing them, so that they can get the frontline trained and prepared and ready. So again, when you think about the caps initiative that Cities United, the collective, the National Institute for criminal justice reform and the hobby are a part of it, really is around, how do you bring the best talent on the national level in a cohesive way to really help a city coordinate their services better? Which Baton Rouge is a part of the caps initiative with us? So it’s been an interesting ride. And you know, Aqeela and his team really spent a lot of time moving Baton Rouge to the place to where they are today. When you think about that ecosystem with the 100 Black Men and other folks who they’re working with there, it’s been a, I want to say a wild ride, but it’s been a ride, let me say it that way, for us to really get to a place where folks see the value in it and understand it. But there’s more, because I think you also probably know that Mayor Broome is up for reelection now, and that could change the whole game if we got a new mayor in, right? That you start again from scratch, because the mayor has been the advocate and the champion for she’s made sure resources have gone out, and we don’t know what that looks like when their new mayor, because it’s just part of the process where we get new leadership, things shifts and change.

 

Travon Free  40:24

Now, I think one of the things you’re working on with the mayor is the safe, hopeful, healthy, Baton Rouge initiative. And, you know, I imagine, from what I know about the way these things work, that something like this isn’t cheap. You know, these investments cost money, and you know, it’s an important investment, though, because we’re talking about people’s lives. And so how do you respond to people who one, worry about how costly this work is. And two, how do you convince them that helping and seeing the value of this work is important to solving these problems?

 

Anthony Smith  40:57

Yeah, I think the first thing you do is let them understand what the cost of not doing this work is, right? There’s an average cost per homicide nationally. I think it’s about $1.2 million.

 

Travon Free  41:08

Wow.

 

Anthony Smith  41:09

The folks at the National Institute for criminal justice reform has cost of violence reports that they put out. They put out one at the national level, and they’ve put them out for different cities, and I think we have one for Baton Rouge. I just don’t remember the numbers, but you help folks see what the cost is if we do nothing, right? So per homicide, if it’s 1.2 million, you’ve already had 31 in the first half of the year, right? That’s $31 million right? And what we’re asking for you to invest is way lower than that, right? So the investment that we’re asking for just two things. One, it saved lives, right? It saves lives, and that allows folks to live out their full potential, but it also is a return on investment to the city, right? Because we are not spending all the taxpayer dollars on all the things that it takes to process a homicide, process the individual if we arrest somebody in a homicide, right? Because we also got to remember that most homicides go unsolved, right? The clearance rates in most places are very, very low, right? But if it is solved and somebody’s arrested, then you got to take care of that. You got to think about the loss of revenues. You gotta think about the loss of taxes. So the first thing we try to do is help people see what it would cost us to do nothing, and then what the investment really is comparative to that cost, right? So it’s a whole lot lower to do pre investment work than it is to do the reactionary work that we talked about earlier, right? So that’s how we usually try to go in this, because everybody don’t give a damn that black folks should die, just to be honest, right? So if I can’t get you to care about black folks, most people care about they dollars. So let me help you figure out a way to be okay with this, even if it’s not that you care that we’re saving lives, but that you were saving you money. So there’s a there’s a way for us to do both of that stories, right? So we, again, the coalition to advance public safety, created a website called the CVIecosystem.org, website, and we looked at the top 50 cities that were experiencing homicides, and came up with a formula that really helps them think about how much money they should be investing as they think about this work moving forward. I can’t remember if Baton Rouge is on there or not, but I can look it up while we’re here, but it really is just a tool to say, hey, this is what it costs you not to do it, but here’s what it could cost you with the investment and prevention and intervention, and we believe you can not only save more lives, you’ll save more money as a city as well.

 

Travon Free  43:47

Absolutely, and you know, what advice would you give to people listening who live in cities that are plagued with similar violence and are interested in starting community teams and getting involved in their own neighborhoods?

 

Anthony Smith  43:59

It’s a couple of things. One, I would think, you know, one, see what’s going on in your community, understand what CVI is, you can go to the CVI ecosystem.org, to understand better what CVI is, what the work looks like. And then you can also start thinking about who in my community already does this. And then how do I connect to them, and how do I support them? But I also think folks can, you know, as they read up about CVI and they see nothing happening in their city or not enough, then they can start having conversations with their elected officials around Hey, there’s other ways for us to do public safety and share their learnings and their research with their elected officials and spend time that way. But I think the big thing is it just learn what it is and then share it with others. And if you don’t have an Office of Violence Prevention or neighborhood safety at your city, recommend to the mayor that you bring that together. I think community members can start building their own table. They don’t have to wait for anybody, right? You can build your own table, invite folks to that table and start having small conversations around public safety and help those tables built until you really understand the issue. They can go to citiesunited.org, to learn more and to reach out to us to get their city on board. But it really is just getting a sense of where your city is already doing if it’s connected to some of the national partners, understanding what CVI is yourself, and then helping your other folks in your community get a better sense of what it is, right? So I think, for some of this is like really just owning and learning about what’s taking place in your in your city, and then also building out a strategy of what you really want to see.

 

Travon Free  45:40

No,I mean, that’s, that’s a great strategy. And I think, you know, I’ve, I’ve been so privileged to have this conversation with you and to talk about these things, because they’re so important. And just, you know, just being mindful of our time. I do have one more question. And you know, in thinking about how difficult and taxing this work can be, what is it that keeps you going through all of this?

 

Anthony Smith  46:04

Yeah, man, well, you know, part of what I said earlier in the conversation, every city I go to, I get to connect to people who care deeply about other people and want to make sure that other people have opportunities to live out their best life, right? And you get to go into these communities where you meet moms, dads and brothers and sisters and friends who have lost loved ones, who are still working hard every day. So for them to still have hope and for them to find purpose and for them to move forward in the work, right? That gives me energy and synergy to continue to move forward. And the beauty of being able to talk to young men and young women across this country and see that they still have hope in this country, that they still have hope for a future as the thing that keeps me going. And lastly, I’ll say to you, […], I get to work with a team of folks who wake up every day thinking about this work, thinking about people in this work. And we do this across the country. We host a convening every year in October. This year, we’re going to be in Seattle up to last year, when we were in Atlanta, we have averaged about 450 people. Last year we blew up to about 800 this year, we planned for 850 and we’re already sold out, and we got two more months before the convening, so we got it on the waiting list of 250 people. So that alone shows me that people value the space that we create. People want to come together. So imagine I’ve been in a room with 850 people who are all working towards peace, right, who are all working towards saving lives, who are all working for a Better America. That’s the thing that drives that’s the thing that gives me energy, right? The people who I get to work for with every day is the thing that keeps me going, right? So it’s hard not to be engaged when you got so many beautiful people who are trying to do the right thing and try to push this country to a better place.

 

Travon Free  48:14

Oh, absolutely, and, you know, I just want to add that I’m so grateful for you and the work that you’re doing. And I’m so glad that people like you are waking up every day trying to solve these problems and doing this work. And you know, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to talk to us and educate us about what you’re doing. Anthony Smith, the executive director of Cities United, working with the Baton Rouge community street team. Anthony, thank you for your time man, I really appreciate it.

 

Anthony Smith  48:42

No, thank you man, I appreciate it, Travon, I really appreciate having the time to really take a deep dive into this. So thank you very much.

 

CREDITS  48:55

A special thank you to the coalition to advance public safety for making today’s conversation possible to learn more about how they foster transformative CVI ecosystems and the individual organizations that work in this coalition, visit www.capsinitiative.org, that’s www.capsinitiative.org. This series is produced by associate producer Dani Matias. Our supervising producer is Jamela Zarha Williams, mixing and Sound Design by Noah Smith. Steve Nelson is our SVP of weekly content. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, and Jessica Cordova Kramer and please help others find our show by leaving us a rating and leaving us a review. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next week.