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Tamron Hall looks like the very definition of success. She’s an Emmy Award-winning broadcast journalist, author, wife, and mother. But all of that happened after she was fired from co-hosting The Today Show’s third hour. She and Reshma share their biggest failures … and why they’re so grateful for them. They discuss the lessons they learned from life’s defeats, including the benefit of throwing yourself a little pity party. Look, we all lose. But Tamron has learned how to still win in the loss, and wants you to be able to do the same.

Follow Tamron on Instagram @tamronhall.

You can follow our host Reshma Saujani @reshmasaujani on Instagram.

Let us know how you’re doing in midlife! You can submit your story to be included in this show at speakpipe.com/midlife

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Speaker 1, Reshma Saujani, Tamron Hall

Reshma Saujani  01:15

Welcome to My So Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it, I’m Reshma Saujani. Okay, so midlifers, I want to tell you about the biggest failure of my life. I ran for Congress when I was 33 years old in this democratic primary against someone who had been there for basically 19 years, and I thought I was gonna win. Like I told everybody I was gonna win, I sunk my savings into the race. I worked my ass off. I mean, I ever since I was a little girl, all I’ve ever wanted to do is serve, and all I’ve ever wanted to do is be in Congress. That dream never happened. Not only did I lose, I mean, I lost spectacularly. I mean, I got like five votes. I mean, it was so so embarrassing, so humiliating. But sometimes failure is, like, the best thing that can ever happen to you. If I didn’t lose that race, I never would have started girls with code. Failure is all about how you react to it, how you move on from it, what you learn from it. And the thing that I’ve learned about failure is like sometimes the best things are just around the corner, and you have to really believe that no regrets. Everything happens for a reason. So my guest this week is someone who has learned how to win through the losses. Tamron Hall was the first black woman to host the Today Show in 2014 but in 2017 she experienced a real sense of failure because NBC gave her co hosting spot to Meg and Kelly. Instead of taking a different role at NBC, Tamron decides to leave the network entirely. Later that year, she joined Disney and ABC and launched the Tamron Hall Show, which has won multiple let me say that again, multiple enemies. Failure was the best thing that ever happened to her. I was recently a guest on the Tamron Hall Show to talk about midlife. And wow, this woman is a powerhouse. I mean, I’ve been watching her show for a while, but just being on the couch with her, she just blew me away. I mean, she’s a brilliant host, and I’m so thankful and grateful to her that she brought midlife and the conversation around midlife to her platform and her community, because we know mid lifers that women need it right now. So I’m excited that I got to turn the tables and have her here with us today, because I also think that we needed to hear her story. So like me, failure was the best thing to happen to Tamron, because it taught her that nothing is guaranteed. She learned what I learned, which is you got to rely on yourself. And if you’re not fully ready to rely on yourself, you need to take a bet on yourself. In her mid life, Tamron turned a layoff not only into a new show, but into a marriage and a baby. She got all of that pretty much in the span of a couple years, and she got it after the age of 46 she is really this living example of that. It’s never too late. You just have to be ready with your own bold backup plan, and you got to be ready to bet on yourself. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Quick note, though the audio is a little rough in the beginning, but stick with us, because it gets much better shortly.

 

Reshma Saujani  05:00

Hey.

 

Tamron Hall  05:01

Hi, how are you?

 

Reshma Saujani  05:03

I’m so good. I had so much fun with you.

 

Tamron Hall  05:05

Thank you. That was a blast.

 

Speaker 1  05:07

I really, really appreciate it. And we got a lot of great kind of social conversation around the conversation of midlife. It’s like it’s on everyone’s mind. It’s so interesting.

 

Tamron Hall  05:16

It is, it’s so interesting. And I think that that’s why those shows resonate when I, when I first created the pitch for my talk show, and believe it or not, there were a lot of buyers involved. And no one wants an hour conversation the attention span, and people don’t want to do this, and people don’t want to do this. Women don’t want to see that. And then we started doing big conversations like ours, and they rate. And now, of course, all of the buyers, seven seasons in all want more of that kind of content and want more of that to talk about, because It delves into so many aspects of our lives.

 

Speaker 1  05:50

Yeah, totally. Well, I wanted to start because we always start by asking people what their midlife mindset is. So how are you feeling about this time of your life? You hyped, you depressed, you sad what?

 

Tamron Hall  06:01

Oh, you know, I I’m quite happy. I know that’s a very simple phrase, but no, I am actually so thrilled to be on this journey. It’s an interesting time in my life, because the matriarch and Patriarch of my family, my oldest uncle and my oldest Aunt, are in their 80s now, and they’re both at very challenging chapters, and it gives me great perspective. And now life is it’s short, and if you’re lucky enough to get numbers in the 80s, you’re very fortunate. But I know I have good days. I have days where I’m sad, frustrated, all those great emotions that we’re supposed to feel, but overall, fabulous.

 

Speaker 1  06:42

You have this really powerful line you said, which just makes me think. It made me think you said, my grandfather was born in 1901 he couldn’t read, and I make my money now with my words, yeah. What does that mean to you?

 

Tamron Hall  06:56

It’s everything. It’s perspective. When people say to me, I remember when I was launching the show, and I had a wonderful journalist that I admire. She led with Do you know how hard this is, and I know she didn’t mean it in a negative way, but we sometimes lead with that with people. And I said to her, my grandfather was a sharecropper who couldn’t read, and he had a great life, and here we are standing in an apartment in a penthouse in New York City about to be served by a bunch of people. I mean, I and that’s not to diminish and not to believe that people who are wealthy or have great means what they don’t have challenges, because we know that’s just not true, but I it gives me perspective. My mom was a 19 year old single mom. She came home with me and poured her love and her dreams into me, and now I’m 48 year old. Mom, first time. Mom, 48 years old, you know, and so I just try to have perspective on things.

 

Speaker 1  08:00

Yeah, and just such a the gift that we have right of opportunities that so many of our elders, like didn’t have. So you’ve had this amazing career. You were the first black female co host of The Today Show, right anchor for MSNBC, live with Tamara Nahal. I mean, Lisk was on and, and, like many people listening on the show, which is why I think you’re so inspirational. You found yourself kind of having to start over at 46, can you talk about that time and, and kind of what you learned from that period, and kind of what you would offer to some of our listeners about?

 

Tamron Hall  08:39

Well, that’s why it was so important for me to figure out my next chapter, versus becoming consumed with anger or what about me or a wrong that was done to me. Right? I was lucky enough that being let go so publicly ignited a passion in people to appreciate my work. You know, I didn’t have to complain or enough people upset for me, which is, it’s a beautiful thing when people who don’t even know you are championing and rooting for you. But I was very mindful of not allowing anger to weigh down my wings. I think sometimes we can lead, whether it’s through motherhood, whether it’s through any anything in life, through the lens of how hard it is or how challenging it is, absolutely, being a woman over 45 you know, another day in time, I would be the person you ran into at the grocery store and said I was at the lake. I remember on TV, but social media gave me an opportunity to stay relevant and keep my name and my purpose out there, but also the times that we live in right we now recognize and understand that wildlife is short in so many ways, as I talked about with. My elders and my family. It is full of opportunities. Every you know, every season, we have people who, you know, started over and created something, and now they have a business. We had a young woman on just yesterday who bought she was walking down the street, was a social worker in Queens, New York, walking down the street, saw this chocolate company called Eigner chocolates had gone out of business. She and her friend decided they’re gonna buy it. They now were just listed the best chocolate company in New York City.

 

Speaker 1  10:32

She’s just walking to work, and she’s walking down the street being like.

 

Tamron Hall  10:35

Walking down the street, being herself, being in a present form, and looking for that next chapter. And that’s the times we live in that this, you know, 30 something woman walks down the street sees a chocolate company. I think it’s been around since, like 1920 or whatever it is, and thinks, you know what? But for me, I think that’s an example if you’re looking at the negative lens and not viewing the opportunities.

 

Speaker 1  15:00

So I think that the point you’re making, which is so important, is like, if something happens to you, like, you lose your job, or the business that you were working on, you know, fails or to like, look at the challenge from a positive perspective and not a negative perspective.

 

Tamron Hall  16:05

It feels, I think, listen, then I don’t want to negate the realities of I lost my job. I am my backup plan. There was, there weren’t gold bars in the backyard of my parents home. So I don’t want to pretend that it didn’t come with hurt, frustration, anger, you know, all of those senses of fear, you know, and anxiety that come with losing your job. I don’t want to say that. What I want to say is, in the midst of acknowledging those fears I had to recognize on the other side of that fear was the potential to define myself. Was the potential to use those 30 years of being a reporter, five or six different TV shows, all of those things. How do I how do I really exploit those things, and even with my children’s book that I’ve written, you know, it is about curiosity. It’s about facing fears. It’s what’s on the other side of that fear, when you’re actually on the field right, when you are actually the player, you are not the spectator. It all flies out the window. I mean, every book I think I read over the nine months of me being pregnant, I just, I couldn’t even tell you a title now, because there’s a blow, because now you’re It’s game time. It’s go time. And going back to that fearful moment of me losing my job, the fear was there, the frustration was there, the sense of being wronged, of course, was there. But on the other side of that fear was an opportunity to rebuild myself and get out on the field on my terms, and I know that that could not have happened if I allowed the fear the anger to be the dominant feeling.

 

Speaker 1  18:01

Yeah, yep, I get it. You know, when I I’ve run for office twice and I’ve lost twice, and people always say, like, what’s your hack on failure? And I, when I lost my first race, I remember, I said to myself, all right, Reshma, you have one month to think about it, to talk about it, to, you know, to drink 100 margaritas, to ask your husband, right, what? What what happened? Should I have hired that? To hire the wrong person? I shouldn’t have said that thing. But then after a month, you move on like you don’t relitigate or relive the thing that didn’t work out. And that tool has really worked for me.

 

Tamron Hall  18:35

I think it’s a great tool, and I’ve done that as well. I read a quote once, and I don’t even know if it’s a it’s a real quote from her, but there was a quote that Jennifer Aniston allegedly said after her breakup with Brad Pitt. It’s like you throw yourself a pity party and then you move on. Yeah, when I was launching my show, right as I met my husband, I was in LA and I was there for an award ceremony of some sort, and I had not sold the show yet, the talk show yet. I was, you know, in the early stages of talking about it, and there was interest, but it wasn’t going as fast as I thought. I’d lost my job, I think at the end of January, beginning of February. Now it’s the summer, and I’m getting antsy, and I’m unsure, and the new TV season is supposed to start in September, and it’s like, what’s going on? And I was in the hotel, sunset marquee, and I threw myself a pity party. You know, I really did. I cried and, you know, I went through this whole thing, and I put on a swimsuit, and I walked to the pool, and lo and behold, I ran into my husband, who I knew, and we were we were friendly, loosely, but then we started to talk to each other and set up a date. Every pity party doesn’t end with you walking. Out and meeting someone you want to marry, but to your point, you have to be able to release it. You know, I’ve been using this comparison of a tire, and when you’ve put so much air in it, it’s hard, and you stiff, and you hit it and it doesn’t move. You want to inflate yourself, but not to the point that you’re hardened, because the tire needs that little pushback. You know, a hard tire is not the best tire, and so for me, it’s that same philosophy, you know, I needed to release, let it seep out, the fear seep out, the anger seep out, the tension seep out, but I needed to make sure the air that was left inside of me was positive, that was forward focused, that was focused on not what I lost, but what I could get.

 

Speaker 1  20:50

Yeah, and what comes out of that is a one in a lifetime show, right? And something that no one had ever done before, and and I’m sure people had said to you, well, you can’t pitch a show. You’re a black woman, you’re in your late 40s. Nobody wants to listen to anything for an hour and do a show about the things that you care about.

 

Tamron Hall  21:12

Well, it’s funny, and they weren’t so direct references to say like, oh, your show won’t make it. It was. Look at all of the other people who shows didn’t make it, and they would imply these people were bigger names, these people had bigger budgets, these people had a bigger audience and a bigger fan base, and maybe they were comedians, or maybe they were this or that. And so they didn’t say, you won’t make it. They said, look at all of these other people who didn’t make it with the implication of, how is it possible that you will and it reminded me of one of my favorite professors when I went to Temple University. Was a journalism professor who I adore it and still do. She said something along the lines of, if you think you’re going to leave college and go strolling into some newsroom and get a job. Well, guess what? I got my first TV job before I even graduated college. And I came back to her, and I said, Well, I got the job. And she said, okay, now keep the job, and now make it better and now do so. She kept upping the challenge. And I love that because, yeah, sometimes you might be the one in the million. But how do you keep that show on for seven seasons? How do you become the second longest running daytime talk show in Disney’s history that becomes where age and wisdom was my friend.

 

Speaker 1  22:38

So when you’re walking out of those meetings, and people are saying that to you, yeah? I think a lot of people are like, it gives them the reason to not do it, yeah? So for you, what did what did you have in yourself or in your community? So, like, I have a husband who’s like, you’re the baddest bitch in the world, yeah? I mean, you could do anything, right? And so I have my support network, and I got some swag, and I kind of, I’m kind of like, you know, I’m kind of like, Kobe Bryant, when I don’t get picked for the game, I’m like, oh, I’m going to show you. I feel like you’re that way too. So like, tell me what happens and what you tell yourself and who you have around you.

 

Tamron Hall  23:16

Well, I wish I had that swag. I would tell you that I might appear that way. I’m not. What I had was my back against the wall, you know, what was that? What was the option, right? You know, what? What was the choice? And you know, people would come to me later and say, Gosh, you were so brave to turn that down and walk away, you know, for your dignity. And I said, you know, yes, there’s absolutely a part of that was based on dignity. I’m not going to allow someone to treat me this way. The other part was, my back was against the wall, and I feel that I am at my greatest when someone says I have no options. I have this thing that I call it my Liam Neeson, when he says, I have a particular set of skills that he hasn’t taken and, you know, gets on the phone with the bad guy who’s got his daughter, he’s like, I got a particular set of skills. And so  I would say that I have a particular set of skills. At the time, I had been on five different networks, hosted seven shows, never been fired in my life, I’ve been working since I was 14. I was able to pull viewers from different aspects. So I’m on MSNBC. I’m from a red state, and the reddest part of that state, people didn’t know me from MSNBC, but they knew me from deadline crime. I had some people who knew me from the Today Show, but other people watch GMA, so they might know me from the Sister Wives reunion show. You know some people never watched any of that, but love watching the Macy’s Fourth of July parade. I had hosted that. So I pulled from these tentacles, right? Or these branches, if I’m the tree, I’m pulling from the branches that God and the universe have allowed me. Whatnot even me knowing to grow from me. And now I’m going to form this show that has amazing guests on, like yourself, talking about midlife and life, and then the next day, we’re doing a beauty bar and screaming audience getting free lipstick, and they’re going crazy. You know, I was able to do that, but I think for me, it was more about finding my options and not allowing the world or anyone to tell me I didn’t have an option.

 

Speaker 1  25:30

Yeah, and you get, you get hit a pretty big blow. And then while you’re, while you’re creating and pitching the show, right, you talk about how you know you a meeting with Harvey Weinstein right, to talk about the show right before the allegations about him came out, how did you handle that?

 

Tamron Hall  25:45

You know it was so sometimes, you know what? They call it baptism by fire. Yeah, it happened so rapidly, and it’s like, so surreal. Yeah, I didn’t know him that long. We’d only had a few meetings, but he was very passionate about pushing this project, this talk show, and it is one of the most complex, disorienting thing to think about, being in a room with someone who advocated for you To not be made invisible, but at the same time, be this person who was found guilty and is spending probably the rest of his life in prison for something so just evil.

 

Speaker 1  26:39

I mean, you probably see this a lot with people who come on to the show and have stories like that, right of parents or, you know, I mean, have suffered abuse and like, you’re trying to kind of navigate right the, like you said, I think the complexity of some of these situations.

 

Tamron Hall  26:55

Yeah, it is enlightening. I mean, it also reminds you that life, you know, is we try to make it. I tell people all the time, it was phenomenal thing to work for Disney, because I now recognize how we try to make life a Disney ending. You know, when I was writing, you know, my children’s book, Harlem, honey, I tried to acknowledge and be, be very realistic in this character’s journey, this little boy who was moving from Texas, and he’s super afraid, and there’s this new environment and all of these things, and acknowledging that life is even for a little kid, it’s not so simple, yeah, but if we give ourselves the tools, if we pull from like the therapist, like to say, your toolbox, or we we give our children the tools that can help them, they won’t erase these fears or erase these challenges, but if we can try to armor them up, that means that maybe when they’re faced with a situation where someone says, we don’t want you on the team, as I faced that, you understand that that’s not the only team, that’s not the only sport, that’s not the only part of the journey.

 

Speaker 1  28:13

Yeah, I want to come to probably what inspired you to write this book as your child.

 

Tamron Hall  28:19

When I, you know, had my son at age 48 I recognized that there were gonna be many things. You know, I’ve been in morning TV for 30 years. I’ve read every parent book that you can imagine. And for me, after the pandemic, I ended up seeing my child. You know, the advice I got was parent the child you have. And so we go from this really big world with my son this, you know, cousins and friends in Texas and home and all these great things to this very isolated life that we were all forced to live at that time. And so there we are in our home, my son, my husband and myself, and when the world reopened, I noticed a child who was incredibly outgoing and vocal and opinionated at home, but then in the world super shy fear, yeah, and it’s been my journey to teach him what’s on the other side of that fear can be new places and new faces and and that’s the inspiration for the book.

 

Speaker 1  29:16

You decided to become try for a baby in midlife. Did you always want to be a parent?

 

Tamron Hall  29:20

This is gonna sound mean. And I don’t mean it to be that way. That sounds good to me. I think most people think they’re gonna be a parent that said, I have a number. I’m 54 now, a number of my girlfriends, my very close inner circle, who are not moms, and two or three, they’re like, I never want to be a mom, but if I dug down deep inside, I’m sure at some point they thought, do I want kids? I mean, it crosses all of our minds.

 

Speaker 1  29:49

It’s true. So I too did. I did a I had, you know, multiple miscarriages before I had my child. I had something called rotating APs. So every time I got pregnant around 12. Weeks my my body would attack the fetus, and so I spent a lot of time in IVF clinics, and it was really eye opening too, right? How much you realize the privilege, right? That there are so many women out there like me who are just desperately want to be a mom, but, like, can’t afford one cycle, much less the five cycles that you have to do.

 

Tamron Hall  30:25

Which is why, you know, I felt a little guilt to your point, that here I was, you know, able to afford these rounds, and recognizing that that that wasn’t everyone’s journey. And I had to release that guilt. You know, I felt that same sense of guilt knowing that I grew up in a rural town and now I live a life that I’m sure there are kids who grew up with me would be way better talk show hosts. I had to release that guilt and reconcile that all of our lives are special and unique, and we shouldn’t feel guilt about success, and we shouldn’t feel insignificant because of failures or setbacks. You talked about running for office, you know? And I just right. And so when I walked in to one clinic and had a similar feeling, but I left doggedly determined that if I was going to get on TV and have this talk show, that I would have transparent conversations about it, um, we just did a show on egg freezing. And I know people often talk about egg freezing, they kind of say it like, oh, like, is it if you put two eggs in the refrigerator, you walk away, you’re going through a whole IVF, except for the transfer. That’s right, they all talked about this embarrassment of freezing their eggs and wanting tell people that. Because, again, yeah, because, you know why? Because I think sometimes society makes you want to feel like a badass by saying, I never want kids. I’m good without it when it’s okay to want it.

 

Speaker 1  31:58

That’s so interesting. It’s such a good point. It’s such a and I think we’re in this moment in society where we’re celebrating that I don’t need love, I don’t need to get married.

 

Tamron Hall  32:11

A loneliness epidemic. I mean, the Surgeon General said, like, was it two years ago that we’re in a loneliness epidemic? We celebrate the loner as if it is a gift to be okay by yourself, and it is both. Can be true, you know, the celebration of independence, but also a celebration of knowing that we are social creatures. Love of something other than ourselves is important and should be celebrated as an empowering thing, because it is empowering to love.

 

Speaker 1  32:40

Yeah, it’s true. I think it’s why we have a crisis of masculinity right now, I’ve been writing a lot about this, right? It’s because I think men just have much fewer friends, much fewer interactions. They’re not dating in the same way. I remember we were growing up, you just went to a bar and, like, yeah, who knew? Right, what was gonna happen? Here you go to a bar, everyone’s on their phone. I’m like, what y’all doing?

 

Tamron Hall  32:59

Yeah, and you talk about masculinity and how that’s defined. You know, when people see my book, my children’s book, they see a child of color on the cover, what they are missing, though, is this wasn’t about inclusivity as it relates to race. It was, as a mother of a boy, I have been on this incredibly enlightening journey of recognizing that so much of the literature and the media that I consume help empower me, but society, I feel in the statistics show somehow we believe to empower young women meant to ignore boys and so now we are seeing, I think it was around a million fewer boys graduate than girls. And you know, the way that schools are structured sometimes appeal to what science says is as an environment conducive to settling in and being quiet versus what young boys may need to celebrate the way they learn. And in my research and in talking to other women who have children who identify as boys, in some of these traditional traits, that’s why it was important for the protagonist to be a little boy, because I found that a lot of what I consume, whether it’s Judy Blume or, you know, Toni Morrison or, you know, whatever, and to Saki Shange, whatever, helped me become an empowered woman, right? We are, I am, you are the result, I hope, of the correction that is needed and was needed to make us feel empowered, to make us, yeah, the only doll option wasn’t a baby alive, you know, yeah, but when I started out with my son and looking at a lot of especially social and emotional books, they were through the lens of a female character or a dragon or something, and not this little boy who’s on a social. Emotional journey of facing fear, and as we tell children now, it’s okay to cry, we should also, in this arc, say fear is natural, curiosity is also a cure to that.

 

Speaker 1  37:52

So wait, did you have you shared with your son yet? And what was his reaction?

 

Tamron Hall  40:04

Gosh, yes, we know he read it and reread it. Loves that he’s the you know? He says that’s me. And I’m like, Well, okay, you don’t have a lock on the name Moses, because he happens to have a lot of religious books where I’m like, there’s somebody else named Moses buddy, you know, I hope that that he enjoys the story every time he reads it, and he does, and I want it to always ignite a conversation about facing fears. And you know, the other day, we went somewhere, and my son was like, I don’t want to go in. And he’s like, I said, well, I guess you can. He goes, I’m kind of scared. I said, well, that’s okay because it’s a lot of people. And I’m like, It’s okay, we’ll go in together. I said, you know, I still get afraid. I still I’m in control in my studio, because that’s my home, that’s my safe space. But you know, when I go into places on a daily I get butterflies, I get nervous. And so I wanted it to be a jump start of a conversation about fear, as we have now evolved in how we talk about tears. Right now, talk about it’s okay to cry, and we don’t say big boys don’t cry, or Big Girls Don’t Cry. So crying and fear is in that social emotional arc.

 

Speaker 1  41:13

Yeah, I think fear is a superpower, too. I think to me, I give a million speeches, but if I’m not afraid, I’m like, something’s wrong. I don’t care, like, if I don’t feel that sweating underneath my arm, it’s like fear is a good thing, and I think that we have to use it more as our superpower, especially for kids, rather than getting them to suppress it.

 

Tamron Hall  41:31

For saying that, and that’s exactly why I wrote the book. You know, there were many things that came up, you know, as far as the journey of being a parent for a whole five years, you know, but this one was something that was authentic to our journey. It’s sincere. It also resonates with me, you know, I was a very shy person. I still am, in many ways, and people are surprised to hear that, and and I’m trying to in this world where sometimes, again, we forget that fear is an okay emotion, yes, and it is, bury it, and we don’t shame you for being afraid of something. And we certainly don’t for children make it the total sum of who they are.

 

Speaker 1  42:14

Right, this isn’t your first book. What are you looking forward to in your in your writing career, and any new ideas that you want to, like, explore or like, yeah, seize upon?

 

Tamron Hall  42:26

Oh, absolutely, much of what you’ve asked me today. You know, the journey of what it feels like to bet on yourself, what it feels like to not win but still win in the loss. Most people want the best life that they can get for themselves and the kids, not at the expense of other people, despite what the world might tell you,  know, and I think that that’s what I want to explore in my next chapter of life, in my next book, is really this notion of how to bet on yourself, and what does that take? And it doesn’t mean alone. This journey is not meant to be alone. You may not marry, but you will have friends that will love you so deeply that when you don’t win, they want to sit there and say to you, well, how do we get this win? How do we help you? How do you build that community? And that’s important to me.

 

Speaker 1  43:21

That’s beautiful. Well, thank you for this wonderful conversation. This was so inspiring. And everyone, please pick up Harlem Honey. It was such it’s such an incredible read. So thank you so much, Tamron.

 

Tamron Hall  43:32

I appreciate it.

 

Reshma Saujani  43:46

That’s it for my conversation with Tamron Hall. Make sure you check out her book, Harlem, Honey, and, of course, tune in to the Tamron Hall Show if you haven’t yet. Now is a great time to subscribe to Lemonada premium. You’ll get bonus content like comedian Phoebe Robinson talking about her experience interviewing the one and only Michelle Obama. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple podcast, or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That’s lemonadapremium.com. Thanks, and we’ll be back next week.  I’m your host, Reshma Saujani, our producer is Claire Jones. Our associate producer is Isaura Aceves.  This series is Sound Design by Ivan Kuraev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltuck.  Our senior supervising producer is Kristen Lepore, and our senior producer is Kryssy Pease. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neel.  Special thanks to our development team, Hoja Lopez, Jamela Zarha Williams and Alex McOwen. Executive Producers include me, Reshma Saujani, Stephanie Whittle Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review and let us know how you’re doing in midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this show at speakpipe.com/midlife. Follow My So Called Midlife, wherever you get your podcast, or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership, thanks so much for listening. See you next week, bye.