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Description

This week, we meet Sy, a nonbinary transgender legal assistant in Los Angeles. They transitioned after marrying their husband, Robert, and having a baby. While things seem great on the surface, Sy confesses they’ve been putting off having a tough conversation with Robert about their transition and how it might affect their romantic relationship. And speaking of putting things off … this week, we also meet Jeff, a trans man and comedian who has been procrastinating about taking his hormone shots. He’s been avoiding talking to a doctor about it, but he soon learns he may have put his body at great risk.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Jeffrey, Emma, Chloe, Mariana, Robert, Jas, Theresa, Sy

Chloe  00:02

My name is Chloe Corcoran.

Sy  00:04

I’m Sy Clark Chan.

Mariana  00:05

My name is Mariana.

Jeffrey  00:06

I’m Jeffrey J. and I identify as a trans man, trans

Jeffrey  00:13

About three months ago, a documentary crew followed us around recording our every move.

Chloe  00:17

They captured us navigating everything

Jeffrey  00:19

From family, relationships, work, and more. And that’s what you’re about to hear. You witnessed some of the moments alongside us, and you’ll get into our heads. Most of its fun.

Mariana  00:29

And some of its hard. But there was always a story worth telling.

Chloe  00:38

On this episode, we follow Jeff.

Jeffrey  00:40

I didn’t realize recently that like Republicans and transgender people have a lot in common.

Chloe  00:46

And we’ll also follow Sy. This is BEING: TRANS.

Jeffrey  01:12

Hi, everyone. here’s the dealio, there is a reason I sound like this. So I’m gonna come out to you guys. You’re like you don’t have to. I’m from Texas. My name is Jeffrey J. I am a 34-year-old stand-up comedian in Los Angeles, California. And I identify as a trans man, my mother’s also Republican judge in Texas City. I didn’t realize recently that like Republicans and transgender people, I have a lot in common. My mother comes from a very liberal family. And so like I had to come out as transgender. But my mom had to come out as Republican. And that’s definitely harder. I was like, Mom and Dad, I’m transgender. I just feel like I’ve always been a boy. What did my mom say? Like, hey, family, I’ve just always liked money.

Jeffrey  02:23

I’m an incredibly lucky person. I’m surrounded by people and love me from my partner, Emma to my parents and extended family. I actually had come out when I was 21. And my mother said, we don’t care. We will always love you. I started comedy in Dallas, Texas, talking about being trans. And it was terrifying. And at a time, I realized like, I just need to get more manly. How do I do that? And so I would go to sports bars and watch football with people who watch football. I guess men is the term and sat down and I’m sitting next to this guy in this bar. And we’re watching the cowboys and another team. And the dude throws the ball and the other dude missed it. And the guy next to me at the bar goes, dude, that was your job. And I was like, he was trying really hard. I approach life with a sense of humor. I think it’s easier to deal with hard things whenever you can laugh about them. I think it’s cathartic. And with so much stuff that comes at you constantly as a trans person. It’s just easier to laugh about it. Because we have a long way to go. Alright, thank you guys.

Sy  03:56

Hey kiddo. It’s time to brush teeth. You want to watch Spider Man when you brush your teeth? My name is Sai Clark Chan. I’m a transgender and non-binary 40-year-old legal assistant living in Los Angeles, California with my partner Robert and our three-year-old son Egon. All right, here we go. Sounds cool. What do you think? Do you want minty? Grownup toothpaste or strawberry? There you go special minty toothpaste. Just very. I told you. No. I knew that you wouldn’t like it. You want the strawberry after we’d been married for about two years when Egon was a little over a year old. I came out as transgender. I’ve never been able to think of myself as like a man or a woman. And even though a lot of non-binary people don’t transition medically, I did choose to transition medically that means that I’m on hormone replacement therapy. And a little more than a year ago I had top surgery which is removing my breasts, all right, come get in bed. You’re just yawning, what kind of kiss goodnight do you want? What about a butterfly kiss? Alright, here goes the stinky kiss, ready, now that it will give you a kiss. Sweet dreams. I love you very much.  All right. He’s winding down. doors close. Robert and I immediately from the moment that we met; he was like a kindred spirit. We’re both nerdy in the same way. We would like to know things about things in the same way. We got married very fast. And then we had Egon about nine months after getting married.

Robert  06:32

It’s like massage thing. But it’s like handheld.

Sy  06:41

Not gonna lie. I don’t hate that. They have different settings?

Robert  06:46

Oh, yeah, it’s got a mess of them. I don’t actually know how high it goes up. Okay, there’s the most there’s the most.

Sy  07:00

Robert is really supportive. And it was really hard to come out to him by Robert took the news in stride. And it’s been a complicated couple of years to get through. But ultimately we stayed together.

Jeffrey  07:47

Hello parental units. So how’s everything going? […] Not all trans people take hormones. But for those of us who do decide to take hormones, it becomes your reality for pretty much the rest of your life. My parents will get onto me for not doing my testosterone shot or for not taking care of my body. I think a lot of people don’t get amazing parents and my parents had been there for me through transition, through my alcoholism and when I had to go to rehab my dad was the first person that when I told him how bad it was, said you know you’ll get through this. On the force is two last year sober. […] Yeah, really a nice thing a tortilla chips. Send me some sauces.

Sy  10:14

This is Sy, Jas is a friend of Robert and mine who has seen our relationship develop and is a good friend to both of us.  Should we go to the park? Or should we go towards Lankershim? You have a preference? You know, I’m lucky that my family has been so supportive during my transition. But I wouldn’t have gotten through it without the support of good friends like just as well. And there’s helicopters everywhere today. So yeah, I’ve been going to this trans meetup group thing. I’m the only person there who has a kid, and I think I’m the only person who’s married, which is interesting. And yeah, a lot of people are like, oh, I’m trying to meet people. And I’m like, dating and stuff. And like, I don’t think about how lucky I am to have this person.

Sy  11:08

I mean, in a lot of ways, of course, like, it’s, you know, it’s always been a blessing, right, to have a good relationship. But listen, when I found out that you were transitioning, you know, I wondered if, would you end up breaking up? You know, it is something I worried about. When I had surgery last year, in the lead up to having top surgery, I was really worried about, like, he wouldn’t be attracted to me anymore. Like, we would talk about it. And he would be like, I love you. I will love you no matter what. But I do worry. Like, what if Robert stops being attracted to me? Or is there a part of my transition that I could enter? That would end our like romantic relationship. Statistically, I feel like a lot of marriages fall apart after a transition. Yes, you’re the same person. But there’s a lot of physical changes that you can’t really ignore. On the surface things with me and Robert seem great. You know, our sex life is still great. It’s evolved in a lot of ways. But there’s a lot I’m still unsure about.

Jas  12:17

I mean, we’ve talked about this before. Yeah, right. I have a breast cancer gene, that I probably am going to get a double mastectomy, right. In the spring. You know, my partner and I have had similar conversations, where he said, it doesn’t matter to me, I need you to be healthy. Right? I have the same concern, like, will you be attracted to me? And he can say yes, but he doesn’t really know that, right?

Sy  12:41

You know, I mean, you know, I do worry, like, if I’m being really honest, had I met Robert now, as myself now. I don’t know if we would have ended up together.

Jas  12:57

Well, that makes me sad. So have you talked to Robert about any of this stuff?

Sy  13:06

The thing about Robert, as you know, because you’ve known him for longer than I have, is that he doesn’t like to talk about his feelings. We went out to breakfast together. And someone thought we were two men. And yeah, he called us the F-slur. And he didn’t react. He hasn’t talked to me about what it felt like.

Jas  13:25

But you didn’t ask him?

Sy  13:27

Because he acted cool about it.

Jas  13:31

You know, you’re the one who knows your marriage, but it you know, I would have questions. Do you have questions?

Sy  13:40

I have questions. Okay. And there are questions that I feel like in being married to someone closed off emotionally about certain things. My way of dealing with that husband to some asking, I sometimes don’t tell him stuff or ask him stuff. Part of me is like if I ask these questions, well, I get the answer and not like it. But I do think about that.

Jeffrey  14:31

This is Jeffrey, I’m hanging out with my friend Teresa. And she is an amazing writer, but she’s also a high-level doctor. And I’ve been procrastinating on taking my testosterone shot. So I figured she could at least be moral support or maybe even helped me do my shot?

Theresa  14:49

I’m glad it finally stopped raining.

Jeffrey  14:51

Why, it’s never gonna rain again. Close my window now because now weirdly. 15 years ago, testosterone was amazing. It did a lot for me in the first couple years, it completely changed my appearance. Everyone feels different on testosterone. But for me, eventually. I just hated the way it made me feel. And to make things more complicated, I hate needles so much the other ways to take testosterone. It’s just too expensive. Yeah, I would actually like to do it, like, as fast as possible. And by that I don’t mean like, I don’t mean like, do the shot fast. But like, I would like to get it out of the way.

Theresa  15:42

Do you have a kit?

Jeffrey  15:43

Yeah, it’s my own like makeshift kit of just years of doing of testerone.

Theresa  15:50

Do you have gloves? Like latex gloves?

Jeffrey  15:54

That’s a great question. I don’t know. And you know, honestly, I have never seen anyone do it in person. And no doctor has ever walked me through it. They just give you the thing. They say here. Smoke up, Johnny. One of the things that makes it harder and is true for so many trans people is that I haven’t had the health insurance for most of my adult life. On top of that, there’s also a lot of medical negligence, intentional and unintentional towards trans people. And so the medical information I get, I pretty much look up myself. And then I save to buy the testosterone. And that’s the reality for a lot of trans people. I

Theresa  16:35

I’m happy to do it sudo supervise.

Jeffrey  16:38

I feel like we’re at a sleepover and doing intravenous drugs, I guess.

Theresa  16:44

Okay. Oh, cool. All right. So you got, can I see how big this needle is, I’m curious what gauge it is.

Jeffrey  16:49

This is the needle. What size is this needle?

Theresa  16:52

It looks like maybe like a 14?

Jeffrey  16:55

It’s like a bicycle pump.

Theresa  16:57

Oh, it’s a 27 gauge. We use this on babies.

Jeffrey  17:05

This is the big old thing of testosterone and juice. And you just push the needle on to it and it brings the liquid out of it.

Theresa  17:15

So are you sure we’re supposed to be giving it subcutaneously?

Jeffrey  17:20

I’ve been doing that exact thing subcutaneously.

Theresa  17:24

All right, you’re the boss.

Jeffrey  17:25

I mean, I’m not the boss. You’re the doctor.

 

Theresa  17:29

We’re all about patient centered health here.

Jeffrey  17:32

I will literally have a panic attack.

Theresa  17:36

Are you sure this is the right needle you use to dry it up? Because the vial says for I am use but did they tell you could do this up cue?

Jeffrey  17:44

When I got this prescription, I told him I was doing subcutaneous who did you tell, who was the him? I mean, somebody at some point told me I could do some cue, and I’m doing that exact thing subcutaneously.

Theresa  18:00

Now this is where actually my medical training is of practical use in that.

Jeffrey  18:05

I’m freaking out right now Theresa’s questioning the size of the needle that I’m using, and also the type of testosterone that I’m using. And now I’m questioning whether or not I’ve been doing my testosterone wrong for the last 15 years.

Theresa  18:37

So are you sure we’re supposed to be giving it subcutaneously.

Jeffrey  18:42

I mean, somebody at some point told me I could do so cute, and I’ve been doing that exact thing subcutaneously

Theresa  18:49

Now, this is where actually my medical training is of practical use in that. Yeah, we can look this up. Okay, I’m just gonna look it up just to make sure. subcutaneous injection of testosterone. That’s gonna work out. According to the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism in 2007, you can specifically give your formulation sub-q.

Jeffrey  19:22

Oh my god, it’s huge. It’s not small. It’s thank you, God, you’re the best. You’ve really good best. So here’s what I’m gonna do. I’m going take my shirt, and I’m gonna put it up. I take my fingers and I measure an inch from my belly button and I make a little fat roll. And I pinch that and then I go in at a 45-degree angle. And I’ve pushed it in Yeah, and then I’m gonna take my needle out. Count to three but not fast.

Theresa  20:02

1, 2, 3, good job. Done. Perfect. Good. It’s gonna get rid of so your sharps, this is trash. What does testosterone feel like? Like, can you normally tell the effects right away? Or is it something you?

Jeffrey  20:29

Will right away yesterday, I think that’s an adrenaline thing, honestly. And then when I do the next one, because I should probably really feel the changes, because I’ve definitely bottomed out on my testosterone levels.

Theresa  20:41

Like how often you’re supposed to take it?

Jeffrey  20:43

Once every two weeks, to once a week.

Theresa  20:46

Is there like a doctor or someone who’s managing your shots or how frequently you’re supposed to give them?

Jeffrey  20:51

A doctor will prescribe me the testosterone, but I get like a huge little vial. And then also because I don’t do my shot, that means it lasts 1000 years. So then I don’t have to go back to the doctor

Theresa  21:03

might be a good idea to go talk to a doctor, you know about all of these hormones you’re injecting into yourself. That doesn’t necessarily sound like the most optimal way to do this.

Jeffrey  21:13

A couple of years in, I had a hysterectomy. And so that’s been like, geez, 12 years ago, I had a hysterectomy. And I asked the doctor afterwards if I should do a different amount of testosterone. And they said no.

Theresa  21:29

I mean, then theoretically, right now you have no, like, sex hormones going on. Yeah, hormones, they act upon a lot of different parts in your body. But there’s also a really important aspect to it in terms of like building bone density, and making sure that everything else in your body is kind of working appropriately. So if there is a way you could talk to someone who you feel like can guide you through finding the best dose for you. I would recommend it just because the idea to like, be on nothing seems a little bit risky.

Jeffrey  22:00

I needed to talk to a doctor.

Theresa  22:04

I mean, I would talk to you, you’re talking to a doctor, but I don’t have any experience in this. So I might talk to a well-informed doctor about the specific question. I think it’s just scary. Hormones just in general for the body do a lot of growth signaling.

Sy  22:19

When I met Jeff, we immediately had a lot in common, it was very cool to meet a trans masculine person, just like we just were on the same wavelength. Jeff is in a long-distance relationship and his girlfriend’s in town for the weekend. Neither of us have met each other as partners. So we thought it’d be cute to have a double date. So how to tell me?

Jeffrey  23:19

I moved up so much because my first partner I met on Craigslist, and then OKCupid is like a brag. The next one, I’ll meet her friends. We met her friends.

Emma  23:36

Yeah, we met on OKCupid on nine basically forced my way onto a date.

Jeffrey  23:42

How did you two? You met through friends? And what was like the first date?

Sy  23:48

So he kept inviting me out to do stuff, but it was stuff that like I didn’t think was dates.

Robert  23:57

At some point, I was just like, I’m just done.

Sy  24:00

There was a vibe that other people saw. For Jess, she was like, […] like is in you.

Jeffrey  24:08

Everyone saw that y’all were just like, this is not going to happen unless we intervene.

Sy  24:14

How’s the long-distance thing working?

Emma  24:16

I think we’re doing pretty good on that.

Jeffrey  24:18

We do a lot of like dating things on Zoom, where we watch videos, and sometimes we will order food for each other.

Sy  24:27

Oh my god, it’s really cute. Alright, what’s your favorite thing about Emma?

Jeffrey  24:34

She challenges me. I like the way that she’ll push my buttons and like get me to like, question myself constantly, in a way that I would probably joke through most things. That is very cool.

Emma  24:48

You do balance me because I think I’m very negative. And I think you help bring more positivity into my world.

Sy  24:55

Oh, that’s really cute. We’re also cute.

Jeffrey  24:59

Now, firing back at you. What’s your favorite thing about Robert?

Sy  25:05

He’s really kind, like really, really thoughtful and kind.

Jeffrey  25:11

What about you, Robert?

Robert  25:15

It’s Psy fills in the gaps that I have. And so it’s a complimentary thing. Yeah,

Sy  25:22

it’s great. It works really well. Part of the way that we balance each other out is like I am the planner, you’re the spontaneous one.

Jeffrey  25:29

I mean, a transition mid marriage is a little spontaneous. Yes. Tell me about this. Because did you sit down and have a conversation? You were like, well, this is new. Is this a whole thing that I had no idea was coming.

Robert  25:48

I feel like there were a couple of conversations along this line, and like, okay. And that was kind of it.

Jeffrey  25:59

Do you mind if I ask question, Robert? Like the lead up to surgery? So like, that’s a different conversation. Was that like?

Emma  26:13

Like perception of sexuality have to like change with a gender change kind of thing?

Robert  26:20

I don’t think so. Actually I don’t know.

Jeffrey  26:27

First of all, how do you like, how do you identify?

Robert  26:32

I’m straight.

Sy  26:44

When Robert answered Jeff’s question that he identifies as a straight guy, you know, honestly, it put me into a bit of a spin because fundamentally, regardless of how either of us identify our relationship as a queer relationship, it was pretty awkward, because it’s not a conversation that Robert and I have really had. And to be honest, I worry about exactly that, like gets to the heart of all of my fears about being transgender in this relationship.

Jeffrey  27:15

It’s interesting, it’s a different kind of conversation, for sure. I mean, the thing is, like, I’m pretty darn pansexual but I definitely think it would be an adjustment period for me.

Sy  27:35

I mean, just Robert identifying a straight translate to him, not acknowledging my gender identity. I don’t know. It’s complicated. I am transgender, my gender identity as I express it to the world is of a queer relationship and something that is probably or hopefully in my opinion, going to get rid of the queer relationship. So it concerns me a little bit that Robert doesn’t necessarily see things that way. All right, thanks for having us again.

Sy  28:16

This is Sy, I’m just recording a little audio diary here. Robert is upstairs he’s asleep. So as Egon all people who are good at sleeping in my house are asleep. But it’s a little after midnight, and I am awake. And thinking about things. You know, the right home with Robert after dinner with Jeff and Emma was really quiet. We really just need to get home and pay the setter. And you know, make sure Egon was settled and all that stuff. So we didn’t talk about anything serious. It just seemed like a weird thing to have to hash out right that moment. We got home you know, we had to pay the baby sitter, of course Egon woke up. So we didn’t talk about that makes it sound like I’m making excuses. I’m putting off this conversation again, like I know that I am. But I can’t avoid that conversation any longer. It’s at this point out in the open, and it’s like weird to not talk about than to talk about, like, I’m thinking about how I’m gonna approach this tomorrow. And I’m looking forward to it. And I’ve had uncomfortable conversations that I had to have with Robert before. And again, it goes back to like that fear that I’ve had every step of this process of like, Oh, when I tell him this, that’s going to be the line we shouldn’t have crossed. That is going to be the thing our relationship can recover.

Jeffrey  29:59

This is Jeffrey after Theresa got on my case, and my mom kept pushing me to figure it out, I decided to reach out to a hormone specialist to talk through kind of what’s going on with me and figure out if there’s a solution to my testosterone issue.

Speaker 5  30:15

So how can I help you?

Jeffrey  30:16

Okay, so to start off, let’s see, jeez, in my journey, I ended up getting a hysterectomy because I needed to because it started doing that thing where it was hurting. And I’ve been on tea ever since. But I take my tea, willy nilly, because I’m not a huge fan of being fully on it.

Speaker 5  30:39

Tell me why you’re not taking it weekly, and why you’re not a fan.

Jeffrey  30:43

Eventually, I started to hate the way it made me feel. I started to feel aggressive. And I had a super high sex drive, which I really hated. It just doesn’t feel as Right. Like there’s never been ever any adjustment in my testosterone levels.

Speaker 5  31:01

So you say your dose has never changed

Jeffrey  31:03

Same amount of tea that I’ve always been on that I was prescribed the very first time ever 200 milligrams per milliliter. And it never has changed or been adjusted by any doctors.

Speaker 5  31:15

First of all, the dose that you’re getting is 100 milligrams a week, which we used to back in the day call that a normal or an average or kind of a usual dose. But we found that that’s actually probably double what we would consider a normal dose these days. But what I tell you is what I start people on his point to five, because we found that point five is actually too high a dose for most people, and intensifies all those things that you don’t like.

Jeffrey  31:43

That’s fascinating. No wonder I hate it and don’t finish it. Because like when I get behind, I do the actual dose that I’m prescribed, which is a full-on milliliter.

Speaker 5  31:55

You have your ovaries still, or did they leave your ovaries in?

Jeffrey  31:59

Nope.

Speaker 5  32:00

Human beings have to have a source of hormones. In order to protect our bones, you don’t have a source of estrogen and you don’t have regular testosterone in your body. When folks get older. Let’s say folks who are assigned female at birth, and let’s say they’re 65 years old, coming to see me in my office, I’m going to be screening them for osteoporosis, which is the bones become brittle. And that’s why old ladies, a lot of times will fall and fracture their hips. And that’s because their estrogen levels have been becoming low. And they also have no testosterone. So right now, I don’t know how long you’ve been messing around like this, but you may be just as much at risk to break your hip when you fall.

Jeffrey  32:43

I’ve been either not going to the right doctors or not going to the doctor, it’s both.

Speaker 5  32:51

But either way, we have to have you in a normal clinical normal range for either your estrogen or your testosterone. But you can definitely do both. And I think that’s kind of one of the newer things that we’re working on. Again, if a patient was coming to me with this sort of thing, I’d be like we’re in for a journey, it will be worth it. Because we will we’ll find your balance, right?

Jeffrey  33:14

What do you think the best course would be knowing that I have nothing right now?

Speaker 5  33:18

In a hypothetical situation, I would start with the medicine you already have. What I’m usually starting my patients on these days, which is point two, five, and you would for me you would do that every week for at least six weeks. But again, the more important than the number for me when I’m working with my patients is how do you feel on this?

Jeffrey  33:38

This is interesting to me, because first of all, I have to say that I’ve never heard of most of the things that you just told me.

Speaker 5  33:44

There is a solution. Do not despair. It’s just a process to get there. And you may be able to do it just with testosterone because you’ve never been on a good normal healthy dose.

Jeffrey  33:55

How soon do I need to get started on this stuff?

Speaker 5  34:00

As soon as possible.

Jeffrey  34:02

All righty.

Speaker 5  34:03

Feel free to let me know how it goes and let me know you know if you have a question.

Jeffrey  34:08

Thank you. All right. Bye. I’m a bit freaked out after getting off the phone with Dr. Colt. I’m honestly a bit in shock. But I know that this is serious and something I have to take care of now as I just want to call my mom. So how’s everything going?

Speaker 6  34:37

Okay, how about you? How are you feeling?

Jeffrey  34:40

I just got off the phone with a doctor and just ask him about the testosterone levels and stuff and how much it should have in me and stuff. It was not good.

Speaker 6  34:50

You’re on the T, right?

Jeffrey  34:53

No, well, I just don’t take it for very long periods of time. Basically he was saying that like the nitty gritty is he’s like, do not fall right now because you could genuinely break a hip like an old lady. He said that basically, I’ve been on way too much testosterone for a long time. So I’ve been on this exact same amount ever since, like back 15 years ago. And I’ve had a hysterectomy since then. So a that should have been adjusted and B, it already should have been adjusted, because they found that we were already on twice as much.

Speaker 6  35:35

That makes sense, because it shouldn’t make you feel bad to take it.

Jeffrey  35:38

He was like, you have to take your testosterone shot tonight. And then if for some reason, like I don’t like the way I feel on it, he said, you can actually balance it out with a little estrogen.

Speaker 6  35:49

So basically, it comes down to less T, more shots.

Jeffrey  35:54

Yeah, what my plan is, I’m going to start with the shots. And then I’m going to go to the doctor and get tested and make sure I’m in the right level, I would really like to be for real healthy and not pretend healthy in my mind. It’s definitely one of those things that I’m brushing off that I have to take care of.

Speaker 6  36:15

And I think it’s a little interesting that you’re been going to all these doctors that are just blindly giving you the stupid dosages, you know, it’d be nice if you got a more interactive doctor.

Jeffrey  36:30

I take on the responsibility of being my own doctor, and giving myself my own medical advice and looking at all up online. And that’s the reality for most trans people. I don’t ever ask questions, because I’m just happy that somebody’s writing the script. Anyways, the point is, I’m gonna do my testosterone shot. Do what you know, I think this is something that I always appreciate is that when something is like, a bit scary, you know, where it’s like, oh, man, I just finally got sober and feel like I’m getting healthy. And then I feel like I may be screwed something up by not taking care of my body in a different way. It’s always nice to call you guys and instead of you know getting all crazy about it. I love y’all so much.

Sy  37:37

Two, we’re two. It’s been so long since we’ve had brunch. Robert and I don’t get to do a lot of dates. You know, since having Egon so I got a sitter and we’re going to have a date today. I am going to have the avocado toast.

Sy  38:00

You know, as parents, one thing that Robert and I are both guilty of is using our kid as a crutch to not have serious conversations that we need to have. Hopefully, spending some time just the two of us will give us a little more chance to delve into some heavy conversations. He has the pizza and I have avocado toast. I’m ready to come out of brunch and plates like this. Wouldn’t be fun for us.

Robert  38:29

They were outdoor, I’ll be helpful. Four to five adults, at least.

Sy  38:34

There needs to be a four adult to one child ratio or there used to be a splash pad on the premises. Cheers baby. I was thinking about who are the two of us is the more romantic or either of us are romantic. And I tend to think like I’m not romantic. I’m much more practical.

Robert  38:54

Like I feel I always feel like I’m doing it wrong. I mean, level honest truth. The idea of a romantic date night, which is fine, but has always been like high stakes, I guess.

Sy  39:09

You think I’m gonna break up with you?

Robert  39:11

Dinner date night feels like you have to get a break. Whereas brunch feels like, man, let’s just kick back.

Sy  39:16

What do you think we get wrong?

Robert  39:19

I mean, I often feel like I’m not doing what I need to do to fulfill the emotional requirements of a marriage.

Sy  39:32

That’s oh my god, no. In our relationship. The most important thing to me is I want to make you happy, and I want you to be happy and happy. Are you happy enough? I spend a lot of time worrying that I’m not enough for you. Spend a lot of time worrying that I am not what you signed up for. You’re a person and you get to have a like sexual orientation and you get to like have Things you want and don’t want in this world, and you get to decide do you want to be with and what that should look like, and, like being blunt about it, I get worried that you’ll stop being attracted to me because you will think I look like a guy.

Robert  40:19

Like in your youth, you bounce around and try different stuff and you know, like, pursue, you know, like, whatever. And I feel like I’ve always been drawn to women who are more masculine presenting, just like, forever, I’m talking about just like, aesthetically, it’s all still in my wheelhouse, like, attractiveness. I’ve figured most of the stuff out. There are things that I like,, my needs are very small and specific and like, any of the rest of the stuff is like, yeah, pretty much I’m in the pocket. And I also have known many people who have been in the closet in a variety of ways, and who were kind of unpleasant to be around. That makes me happy when yourself as authentically as you possibly can be. Like, I have no trepidation that like, eventually you will become something bad or unpleasant or unattractive. Because you could only become more attractive.

Sy  41:49

[…] I had thought about. I’m glad to hear you say all that stuff. I’m gonna ask you one last pokey emotional question. Does me not being a woman mean anything to you in that way? I don’t think that the way that I look will change too much more dramatically. But I also know that yeah, like, sometimes I go places and people think I would do. And I’m okay with that. I’m not sure you are or that there might be a point where you realize you’re not.

Robert  42:30

Pretty much from the get go. I have not given a shit about what other people think.

Sy  42:36

I ever worried that we will think you’re gay. In the context of our relationship.

Robert  42:44

Like you can think whatever you want about me if you’re appalled or not, don’t want to interact. Okay, cool. I have spent a lot of time figuring out who I am. Pretty good with who I am.

Sy  43:04

For somebody who doesn’t really talk about emotions a lot when Robert does it means a lot. hearing some of the things Robert is saying to me now, I am relieved. But I’m also moved. This is exactly why Robert is my person. You know, when he puts these things into words. I’m reminded of like, oh, right, like we’re in love with each other, we’re married, we’re each other’s person.

Robert  43:32

I actually want to be with you specifically. Like literally since we started dating. I have never been happier.

Sy  43:46

I wish we talked more about this stuff. I learned more about our feelings. Were family will always be family. Even like, you know, despite some of the things we’ve been talking about will always be family.

Sy  44:06

I feel like we’re doing okay. I hope they’re ever done. I continue to have these conversations because it’s not just me who’s going to change over the years. It’s both of us and it’s our lives and our relationship will change. The world does change. Anyway, hope for the future. As I you know, hopefully work harder on moving past some of this avoidance stuff with these big conversations is that I will trust a little better and I will not overthink things so much and not internalizing so much and just be able to communicate about things. All of these things only make our marriage stronger.

Jeffrey  44:56

This is Jeffrey Jay. It’s Thursday afternoon. and that means it’s T day. I do my testosterone now. And by that, I mean, this is my, what, second week doing it, and sticking to the right day. And I think I’m gonna go pretty fast on it. It’s funny. It’s such a tiny needle. I feel like everything’s gotten easier since talking it out with everyone. And so my band is ready. My dosage is now 25 milliliters. I’m taking off the cap of my needle. There it is, it’s gone. The bubble is gone. And there’s point two, five. And then I’m going to squeeze a little fat area on my tummy. And it’s right there in I’m just gonna go everything’s fine. The liquids going in. And it’s all in a pulling up a needle film. And it’s all over. And I’m taking that stuff and I’m rubbing it on my tummy. Bandaid on all done, though. Honestly, I feel a lot better. Now. I was so freaked out about everything. And I think this is true for a lot of people. But it’s so easy to get scared of information. And so you avoid it. But the minute you actually become fully educated about it, it gets less scary. Even if you’re getting bad news, like hey, your bones aren’t in a good place right now. I know enough to know how to fix it. And I know why it’s important to take my shot and to talk to a doctor about my dosage. So in kind of facing my fears of have I screwed up my body I made my shot less scary and so every single week is easier now.

Sy  47:17

BEING: TRANS is an audio reality original from Lemonada Media’s BEING studios, executive producers are Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Kasey Barrett. Our co-executive producer is Sele Leota. Our associate producer is Myrriah Gossett and our assistant producer is Greta Stromquist. Our consulting producer is Sarah Jossel, Scott Hanlon is our audio supervisor and field Recordist with additional field recording by Maurice Mahiya. Makes him sound designed by David Herman and Michael Raphael. Additional mix sound design and consultation by Ivan Kuraev. Our music is by Signature Tracks. Special thanks to the Hot Donna’s club and the Glendale room. BEING: TRANS is brought to you with generous support from the Marguerite Casey Foundation and Wellbeing Trust. You can find us online at @LemonadaMedia and connect with us across all social platforms. Subscribe to Lemonada Media on Apple podcasts you hear bonus content, deleted scenes and more from our cast. If you like what you heard today, please tell your family and friends to listen and subscribe. Rate and review us on Spotify, Apple, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, thanks for listening and thanks for BEING.