111. The Woman in the Car
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It’s our first ride-along episode! And it’s about a car! Perfect. To help break down this action-packed and emotionally driven episode, Emily and Carla are joined by Dwight Little, who directed a whopping 23 episodes over the span of the series. Dwight shares plenty of insights from decades in the film and television industry, including how he first got started on Bones by directing this very episode. The three of them unpack the ways Season 1 was still searching for the right tone, and the stellar performances that made this a standout episode.
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Transcript
SPEAKERS
Lupita Nyong’o, Emily Deschanel, Kulap Vilaysack, SuChin Pak, Carla Gallo, Dwight H. Little, Ellie Kemper, Scott Eckert
Ellie Kemper 00:00
Hi, I’m Ellie Kemper from the office and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and this is my fantastically funny friend, Scott Eckert.
Scott Eckert 00:07
Hi everyone.
Ellie Kemper 00:08
We host a podcast called “Born to Love.” It’s a show where we talk to the people we love about the things they love.
Scott Eckert 00:14
Each week we bring on a celebrity guest to discuss their secret passion.
Ellie Kemper 00:18
Did you know that my friend Jenna Fischer loves Keanu Reeves movies?
Scott Eckert 00:22
She does?
Ellie Kemper 00:23
She does. How about Al Roker, Samantha Bee, Tony Hawk, Jane Lynch?
Scott Eckert 00:28
What do they love, Ellie?
Ellie Kemper 00:29
Yes, you have to listen to the show to find out. So check out Born to Love wherever you get your podcast from Lemonada Media.
Kulap Vilaysack 00:37
Hi, I’m Kulap Vilaysack.
SuChin Pak 00:39
And I’m SuChin Park.
Kulap Vilaysack 00:41
And we’re your aunties on “Add to Cart”, a podcast all about the things we buy, the things we buy into, and what that saysabout who we are. We’re real life friends who love to talk about what we’re adding to cart.
SuChin Pak 00:52
Sometimes that means trying the latest snail serum to slatheron our faces, or a sweater that screams 1/3 ugly.
Kulap Vilaysack 01:00
That’s right, Su. Each week we dive into honest, oftentimes, TMI conversations about what’s taking up space in our shopping carts and in our minds, be it products, trends or something for our Auntie book club, we also bring guests on the show and take a peek into their carts because the things a person buys or doesn’t says a lot about them. We like to think of ourselves as aunties to all fun, slightly unhinged and always ready to share some sage advice and a good productwreck.
SuChin Pak 01:28
Add to cart is out now. Wherever you get your podcasts.
Emily Deschanel 01:38
Lemonada.
Carla Gallo 01:53
Hi, I’m Carla Gallo.
Emily Deschanel 01:55
And I’m Emily Deschanel.
Carla Gallo 01:57
And this is Boneheads.
Emily Deschanel 02:04
How you been?
Carla Gallo 02:05
I’ve been good. It’s been a long week. What about you?
Emily Deschanel 02:10
Yeah, it has been a long week. There’s so many things going on.
Carla Gallo 02:15
It’s this time of year.
Emily Deschanel 02:16
I’ve gone out more than usual and I’m always more tired when I do that.
Carla Gallo 02:21
Well, it’s this time of year.
Emily Deschanel 02:22
I know.
Carla Gallo 02:24
Thanksgiving and holidays. It’s just November, December to me are like a blur. They’re a blur.
Emily Deschanel 02:32
I forgot about getting presents and everything, but we did fun thing. We went and saw comedy.
Carla Gallo 02:37
Oh, what did you go see?
Emily Deschanel 02:40
We went to the Comedy Store.
Carla Gallo 02:42
Nice.
Emily Deschanel 02:43
It was good, just to get out.
Carla Gallo 02:44
It was you and David, your husband?
Emily Deschanel 02:45
And our friends.
Carla Gallo 02:46
Okay.
Emily Deschanel 02:46
And a couple friends.
Carla Gallo 02:47
Nice.
Emily Deschanel 02:47
Yeah, that was fun. Then, we also went to a Cyndi Lauper concert.
Carla Gallo 02:54
I know, Rick has texted me and send me video?
Emily Deschanel 02:58
To make you jealous.
Carla Gallo 02:59
How did that concert?
Emily Deschanel 03:00
But, I don’t want you to make jealous.
Carla Gallo 03:02
No, you did make me jealous. I remember, you were texting me and it was seemed like a very. It came together really quickly. Did she reach out to you or something?
Emily Deschanel 03:10
Yes, she did so sweetly, she had a tickets for me. So, the nightbefore. So anytime I get a text from Cindy Lauper.
Carla Gallo 03:20
That’s a big deal.
Emily Deschanel 03:22
My whole being just.
Carla Gallo 03:25
Well, the teenager in you must be like, “I have reached that point where Cindy Lauper texts me directly”. You know what Imean? Like, Would you ever have thought?
Emily Deschanel 03:36
No, I loved her so much.
Carla Gallo 03:40
Am I crazy? Did Hart posted a picture that I think she had sent him? The name in her dressing room was the name of her character on Bone? Does she always do that? Or just for him?
Emily Deschanel 03:53
Yes, I don’t know but he reveal tha, I saw that.
Carla Gallo 03:56
He posted it.
Emily Deschanel 03:57
I know. I don’t know if he’s allowed to, I guess he is. But the show is so good and it was so beautiful. She kind of worked with different artists, and there’s this beautiful when she’s saying two colors, is this rainbow, 50 foot of fabric with thoseflowing in like wind that was going to explain it.
Carla Gallo 04:19
Where was the concert?
Emily Deschanel 04:20
It was at the Intuit Dome which is a new place in Inglewood, it’s the home of the Clippers now, super high tech. But anyways, the Intuit Dome is very cool, but Disney Opera is even cooler.
Carla Gallo 04:36
Was she great?
Emily Deschanel 04:37
She’s amazing and her voice so insanely good. It’s just such agreat time, she’s such a star.
Carla Gallo 04:45
Awesome.
Emily Deschanel 04:45
[…] It’s like we’re in the 80s and she’s got the same voice, the same everything, she wore these all amazing costumes, such a great show. If she’s coming to a town near you, I highly recommend going to see her. Ladies and gentlemen people who are listening. But, we are today talking about an episodeand then also having someone as a guest to talk about that.
Carla Gallo 05:14
Which is so exciting.
Emily Deschanel 05:15
Our first ride along.
Carla Gallo 05:16
Our first ride along, gonna say. We got someone along for the ride. We are talking about season one, episode 11 of Bones; The Woman in the Car. It was written by Noah Hawley. The director is Dwight Little.
Emily Deschanel 05:31
Who was our guest today.
Carla Gallo 05:32
You spill it.
Emily Deschanel 05:35
No.
Carla Gallo 05:35
It’s alright.
Emily Deschanel 05:35
You have something planned?
Carla Gallo 05:36
No. I want to say it in an intriguing way. Okay, the director was Dwight. Little. Was that intriguing? The air date was February 1, 2006.
Emily Deschanel 05:50
Sounds like ominous like bad’s gonna happen.
Carla Gallo 05:53
Wait till you hear this interview. I am so excited that he is our guest.
Emily Deschanel 05:58
And he directed many episodes of bones, 23 to be exact. He directed the most episodes of anyone besides a producing director and he directed an episode in every season, which I think is he’s the only director who did that.
Carla Gallo 06:14
Amazing.
Emily Deschanel 06:14
So, he got to see the show change over time, he knew it from the beginning and watch. Then, he did many episodes in different seasons as we went along.
Carla Gallo 06:26
And aside from Bones, Dwight has directed both TV and film. He’s known for directing the films Marked for Death, Broken Arrow, Free Willy 2, Murder at 1600 and Halloween, four and five. He has also directed several episodes of a clean television series, such as 24 Prison Break, Doll House and Nikita. He also wrote a memoir about his adventures in directing called Still Rolling: Inside the Hollywood Dream Factory.
Emily Deschanel 06:53
Yeah, I’ve been reading it and there’s some stories about Bones as well as some other films he directed and other TV shows. He has a lot of great, funny, interesting stories and practical advice for people starting out too. In this episode, Booth and Brennan investigate the burnt body of a woman found in a car and the kidnapping of her missing child. Theysuspect the child’s father, Carl Decker of the kidnapping. Their investigation is complicated by the fact that Decker is in witness protection and he’s scheduled to testify against his employer, KBC systems for knowingly selling defective armorto the US military.
Carla Gallo 07:37
Beautiful, concise synopsis. Thank you.
Emily Deschanel 07:40
All right, let’s get into our conversation with Dwight Little.
Emily Deschanel 07:49
Hi.
Carla Gallo 07:49
Hello.
Emily Deschanel 07:50
We’re here with Dwight little.
Dwight H. Little 07:51
Good morning.
Carla Gallo 07:53
Good morning, we have an mazing guest.
Emily Deschanel 07:56
Good morning.
Dwight H. Little 07:56
Well, I gotta live up to that.
Carla Gallo 07:57
Yeah.
Emily Deschanel 07:58
Favorite directors if not our favorite director, so many episodes probably the most episodes of a director besides the only director.
Dwight H. Little 08:08
Only producer guy who beat me was Ian.
Emily Deschanel 08:10
Yes.
Carla Gallo 08:11
He was the producing director.
Emily Deschanel 08:12
Yes.
Emily Deschanel 08:13
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 08:14
Who is a dear friend, Ian? Ian’s the only one that holds the metal above me.
Carla Gallo 08:22
How many does the Ian have compared to you?
Dwight H. Little 08:29
Does the size matter?
Carla Gallo 08:30
Yes, let’s measure.
Dwight H. Little 08:34
Who’s counting? But I did 23.
Emily Deschanel 08:37
That’s our count as well.
Dwight H. Little 08:39
And I think Ian was at 26 ish.
Emily Deschanel 08:42
Oh, so close.
Carla Gallo 08:43
Clearly.
Dwight H. Little 08:43
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 08:45
Let’s call it a tie.
Emily Deschanel 08:46
He’s like a millisecond race.
Carla Gallo 08:49
But, it was unfair advantage because he was the producing director. He was there all the time.
Dwight H. Little 08:53
Could hire himself.
Emily Deschanel 08:54
Exactly.
Dwight H. Little 08:57
That’s how the world works.
Emily Deschanel 08:58
Well, we’re so excited that you’re here. Thank you so much for coming. I’ve been reading your book and I learned things that I didn’t know about you. I got to read about Bones experiences that I didn’t know about, some of them I didn’t know about and some of them I was there for, but I wasn’t fully aware of.
Dwight H. Little 09:22
Did I drop a phones? […].
Emily Deschanel 09:24
No, in the circus episode. I didn’t know all that stuff that went in the behind the scenes.
Dwight H. Little 09:29
Yeah, right.
Emily Deschanel 09:30
But, you written this book. I feel like (tell me if I’m wrong). It feels to me like you’ve written it for aspiring filmmakers.
Dwight H. Little 09:42
Exactly.
Emily Deschanel 09:42
To start because it’s has a lot of great advice in the book for people starting out and finding their way in the business that I thought was very practical, tangible advice that people could follow and stuff that people don’t always tell you before. Like after going to film school.
Dwight H. Little 10:03
Well as outside. So my old, younger son, Jackson just graduated Emerson in film, and he has a million questions all the time. Then I had this colleague, Jenny Tugan, who produced Free Willy 2 and she said, “Do I come down to UCLA and talk to the college kids?” and I said, “Okay, Jenny”. So I went down and the place was packed. I mean, I’m not Martin Scorsese, but this place was packed and they had questions and I was supposed to be there 50 minutes and it just went on and on. I thought, “You know what? People are interested in this”.
Emily Deschanel 10:42
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 10:43
And I’m going to write this down. Then I was helped by my partner, COVID.
Emily Deschanel 10:50
I’m gonna say it because your wife’s a writer […].
Dwight H. Little 10:54
I was stuck a little bit with COVID. I thought if there was ever a time, this is the time to do it. But, I did want to get at thepoint which you bring up which there’s two different worlds. And I started off in the movie world and came up for almost20 years doing indies, studios and different movies even TV movies.
Emily Deschanel 11:16
Right.
Dwight H. Little 11:16
And then switched about late 90s early 2000s to television because I saw the train coming and “The Sopranos” was just starting to happen. NYPD Blue was it? All these shows that were much different than what we. It wasn’t just an episode of Colombo, it was like TV was becoming another close great.
Emily Deschanel 11:41
Of course.
Dwight H. Little 11:42
But, I saw it coming and then I had an opportunity to jump into TV and I took it. Not long after that, all these directors were calling me and like, “Dwight, how’d you get into TV?” Because the feature window was tightening in terms of the number of what we used to call the mid level movie. People are talking about it now a lot but that was tightening up and then I got tricked, because the first three I did were fabulous, it was “Millennium” which was a fox show, we’ll circle around how I got involved with Bones.
Emily Deschanel 12:20
That’s one of our questions. You might be shocked.
Dwight H. Little 12:24
But then after millennium, I got the David Kelly show, “The Practice”.
Emily Deschanel 12:30
I watched every episode of that show.
Dwight H. Little 12:32
Heavies.
Emily Deschanel 12:34
Before I knew you.
Dwight H. Little 12:34
So, I’m getting these David Kelly scripts. And “I’m like, This is better than anything I had in movies”. Stop being a snobDwight and just take yes for an answer. And because it’s David Kelly scripps, it attracts all the great actors.
Emily Deschanel 12:55
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 12:56
So it’s like, if this is television, I think I can live with it.
Emily Deschanel 13:03
I think we can live with it.
Dwight H. Little 13:04
Yes. Okay, I’m done.
Emily Deschanel 13:05
No, you’re not done.
Carla Gallo 13:07
You’re far from done.
Dwight H. Little 13:08
Okay.
Emily Deschanel 13:09
We have a lot to talk about. We’ll talk more about the book and I want to talk about the episode.
Carla Gallo 13:13
I was gonna say because you just mentioned it, how that leads you to bones? I mean, I am curious. Like, this is the trajectory of you coming into television, I would love to know. Like, how did that lead you to Bones?
Dwight H. Little 13:24
I have that story.
Carla Gallo 13:26
I’d like to hear it.
Emily Deschanel 13:27
I want to know. I have other questions about your book, but we can jump right into that.
Dwight H. Little 13:31
My book […].
Emily Deschanel 13:32
No, it’s a good book. I’m really enjoying it. And there’s even a story about, I believe the episode we’re going to talk about.
Dwight H. Little 13:39
I think I did it.
Carla Gallo 13:40
Oh, really?
Emily Deschanel 13:40
Like the casting thing?
Dwight H. Little 13:44
That was a thing.
Emily Deschanel 13:45
Yeah. I didn’t tell you about it because it can be a surprise.
Carla Gallo 13:50
I know.
Dwight H. Little 13:50
I was in a hotel in Chicago, scouting for a show called Prison Break.
Emily Deschanel 13:57
Love prison break.
Dwight H. Little 13:58
Okay. We were looking for a ballroom or something. I got a call on what then would have been my clamshell flip phone […] I like them by the way, they were great. So, this is the Asian calling we’ve got. We’ve been called by the executives at Fox. They want you to leave prison break a day early, travel for one day and be in prep on this new show that we’re doing at Fox and they want you there on tuesday morning.
Emily Deschanel 14:34
Just for people listening. Prison Break was also a fox show, so they could call and do that kind of thing too, like “We’re gonna pluck you a little early from this one” because yeah, that’s fine. Did they take you one day early from filming?
Dwight H. Little 14:47
No, they just know from filming?
Emily Deschanel 14:50
Oh, wow. They directed the last day for you.
Dwight H. Little 14:55
No, I think it was the producer, director.
Emily Deschanel 14:58
Right.
Dwight H. Little 14:58
They had somebody. But I was in their bullpen, right? So you’re on a ross, those days were a little different. You were like, “I’m the Fox”. Was like, “Oh, what are we gonna do here?” Well, let’s twice in Chicago, but he’s almost done with that show. So I actually called Sandy and I said, “Honey, I’m gonna I’m coming home”.
Emily Deschanel 15:15
This wife? Friendly, lovely.
Dwight H. Little 15:17
I said, “But don’t get your hopes up, because I’m have to go at 5am the next morning”.
Emily Deschanel 15:23
I’m barely even home.
Dwight H. Little 15:24
Yeah and go down to the show. The way they pitched it to me is we have this new procedural, and they don’t quite know what it is yet, this is how it was explained to me. They’re not sure what kind of a procedural it is. They’re not sure what the tone is. There’s this great show runner who’s trying to figure it out. I don’t know why they picked me, but I think if I guessed, it’s because I had a big action thriller background on my resume.
Emily Deschanel 15:58
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 15:58
A lot of police procedurals.
Emily Deschanel 16:00
And also like horror stuff. I mean, this is a glory show, I think about that.
Dwight H. Little 16:05
I put my foot in the horror waters.
Carla Gallo 16:08
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 16:08
I think they wanted something. How do they get muscular in this? You know, they wanted a show.
Emily Deschanel 16:18
I mean, directing an action sequence which you have in this first episode that you directed, that we’ll talk about today. Not every director can do that kind of thing, like setting up shots. I mean, at the end where we find the boy.
Dwight H. Little 16:36
There’s a pretty big sequence.
Emily Deschanel 16:38
It’s not just an average Bones episode even.
Dwight H. Little 16:42
We don’t have feature time to do it.
Emily Deschanel 16:44
No.
Dwight H. Little 16:45
Right?
Emily Deschanel 16:45
That’s also a whole other.
Dwight H. Little 16:47
We did a two shot of you and David which wraps up that show at first light. It was already getting light out, and I didn’t have time to cover it.
Emily Deschanel 16:58
This is when we were working into the more, this is called a “Fridurday”.
Dwight H. Little 17:03
This was a Fridurday.
Emily Deschanel 17:05
Fridurday where you work until the early morning of a Saturday and Friday.
Dwight H. Little 17:09
I got all the gun stuff and gotten rescued the boy and had the boy reunite with the dad, but I still had Brennan. What’s the name?
Emily Deschanel 17:20
Booth and Brennan.
Dwight H. Little 17:21
Booth and Brennanm, I had to wrap them up. And normally, you do a two shot and then you do some coverage the waywe do, but we were running a light, running out of time, so it was up to my two pros here to knock that off and get it all right and the two shot.
Carla Gallo 17:38
So, you do it?
Emily Deschanel 17:38
Of course he did.
Dwight H. Little 17:41
It was like print, we’re going home.
Emily Deschanel 17:43
Wow, please God. You’re going home.
Dwight H. Little 17:47
Right. So, it was cold.
Emily Deschanel 17:50
Yes. You remember where we shot that systems were talking about it? You remember where it was?
Dwight H. Little 17:55
I think the 14.
Emily Deschanel 17:56
Okay, we shot off the 14 a lot like 14 freeways […].
Carla Gallo 18:04
Just to clarify this episode we’re talking about today, 111. This is your first episode of Bones that you do of the 23?
Dwight H. Little 18:12
This is the first one. This called the woman in the car. We did some great stuff with it. We did a great winter scene on a golf course.
Emily Deschanel 18:23
Also, were at some place called Triangle Park that I just passed by.
Carla Gallo 18:29
Oh, really?
Emily Deschanel 18:30
Yeah, where we had snow?
Dwight H. Little 18:31
With the house.
Emily Deschanel 18:33
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 18:34
We had snow there too, it’s interesting. You have to remember, at that location, remember you were much more fighty because they were still thinking Bones might become kind of atomic blonde, like this action.
Emily Deschanel 18:50
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 18:50
Heroin. So you kick the guy.
Carla Gallo 18:53
Guy’s watching the car, doing surveillance on the high.
Emily Deschanel 18:56
Pulls the guy out of a car.
Dwight H. Little 18:58
Kicked him and everybody pulled out their guns.
Emily Deschanel 19:01
And then I say, “Forensic anthropologists”, that’s why no gun. One of my favorite lines.
Dwight H. Little 19:06
It was a good day and interestingly, they didn’t follow up with that […].
Emily Deschanel 19:12
Well, I can tell you about that.
Dwight H. Little 19:14
Okay, please.
Emily Deschanel 19:15
Well, you mean they didn’t fell through with the fighting?
Dwight H. Little 19:17
With how fighty you were gonna do?
Emily Deschanel 19:20
Yeah. Well, I remember I talked to Hart, I think was after the first season or maybe second season, but might just been the first season where I felt like there’s a lot of unprovoked fighting. So, I asked for Les because I felt like it didn’t alwaysmake sense to me.
Dwight H. Little 19:38
It wasn’t organic.
Emily Deschanel 19:38
It wasn’t always organic. It was just seemed to like, “Let’s show her fighting or whatever”. And that just didn’t feel right tome. I didn’t mean to get rid of all the fighting, but for me at that time now, watching the episodes that doesn’t feel that way watching it now, but maybe doing that felt that way. So, that was probably one of the factors was I had a conversation with him.
Dwight H. Little 20:02
We did a lot of stuff. I mean, we trapeze artists, we did a lot of fun stuff, but I don’t remember a lot of martial artists staff.
Emily Deschanel 20:11
Yeah, they kind of moved away from it for a season.
Dwight H. Little 20:15
Just going back to women in the car, there was a really good body discovery, because the woman was burned in those.
Emily Deschanel 20:22
That was at Rancho Park, that was there.
Dwight H. Little 20:24
That was those special effects guys did an amazing job.
Emily Deschanel 20:28
Well, you talk about working with the Jaeger hunter, at least Chris Yagher, right? Or Kevin Yagher, you worked with him on Phantom of the Opera, one of the films you made.
Dwight H. Little 20:38
With Robert Englund.
Emily Deschanel 20:39
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 20:40
I worked with Kevin and those guys are experts, as we know. But, that particular body was really upset.
Emily Deschanel 20:46
Yeah and it smells. When they burn the body.
Carla Gallo 20:50
Oh, they actually burn the robbers?
Emily Deschanel 20:52
They really burn them. When you have any burnt bodies on Bones, they have been burned, so they smell like burnt barbecue or something like that. Probably not as much like barbecue is like a real body.
Dwight H. Little 21:06
She was a good body.
Emily Deschanel 21:08
Yeah, she was a great body.
Dwight H. Little 21:13
One of our best and they were discovering the show.
Emily Deschanel 21:18
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 21:19
And so there were still the fumes of a cop show in the women in the car, which then drifted away because it’s in the book, I’ll tell you that great Hart story. I think it was on women in the car, where I was shooting a Booth and Brennan scene. And you guys were done with the dialogue and you started messing around the way you often did.
Emily Deschanel 21:44
Right.
Dwight H. Little 21:45
Then Hart happened to be on set and I think I was in mid, like, “Cut” and he just elbows.
Emily Deschanel 21:52
Really?
Dwight H. Little 21:53
And he’s like, “They won’t be able to see this”. “Keep shooting”.
Emily Deschanel 21:59
For the listeners. Dwight is like moving, keep rolling.
Dwight H. Little 22:04
Still rolling. You know, keep going, keep going.
Emily Deschanel 22:07
Keep rolling. It is part of the title?
Dwight H. Little 22:11
It is kind of, but it was like keep shooting because he suddenly saw what was happening. There was this chemistry between David and Emily and you guys were just riffed.
Carla Gallo 22:29
More with Dwight Little when we come back.
SuChin Pak 22:41
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Emily Deschanel 23:49
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Dwight H. Little 25:55
If you look at the woman in the car, it does not look like a Bones episode, I’m talking about the cinematography.
Emily Deschanel 26:02
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 26:03
It is very moody. It is lit as Alan Pakula style thriller. And they then, of course, as the show got lighter in tone, the lightingalso got lighter.
Emily Deschanel 26:20
That’s so interesting.
Carla Gallo 26:20
Yeah, visually.
Dwight H. Little 26:21
Because you don’t want this really dark, moody visual and then they’re telling jokes, right?
Emily Deschanel 26:27
Yeah.
Carla Gallo 26:28
The show did get more comedic and quirky. They always had that from the beginning.
Dwight H. Little 26:31
But they leaned into it eventually to made it a hit.
Emily Deschanel 26:36
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 26:36
I mean, not only that, but that was part of it. But then they later shifted the tone and it became a little lighter.
Emily Deschanel 26:45
Then it became darker in terms of the light. I feel like in the last season, I feel like it got dark. Also depends on the episode, because we had some episodes that were almost like forces and we had some episodes that were like silence of the length.
Dwight H. Little 26:57
Right.
Emily Deschanel 26:58
So, I think they would adjust accordingly.
Dwight H. Little 27:01
That’s right.
Emily Deschanel 27:01
But I think also, when you say that you’re brought in, they’re like, “We don’t know what the show is or we don’t know what the tone is”. I feel like it was not necessarily, they don’t know what it is. I mean, I think that’s maybe people didn’t know. But I also think, Hart thought it was one thing and the networks thought it was another thing and the studio probably thought it was another thing, and so is everyone having to come together to […].
Dwight H. Little 27:22
But, the reason there’s conflict there is because they don’t know what the public wants.
Emily Deschanel 27:27
Right.
Dwight H. Little 27:27
So, they didn’t know. I mean, all they want to know is what’s a hit. Like, “What do you think will work out there?” And because nobody knew, so now you get these like, “Well, it should be more comedic, it should be darker, it should be more actionable”. But they’re all guessing.
Emily Deschanel 27:44
Yeah, exactly. That’s what people want.
Dwight H. Little 27:45
Because they don’t know. Then suddenly, season two, this new tone starts to get ratings. And I was like, “Oh, more that”but that’s normal. They just want to be successful.
Carla Gallo 28:00
Did you have a directing question just about this specific episode, just because I felt like we’re saying, some of them start to skew a little more light hearted. And this one, I felt like it’s very emotional. It has so many themes of like, the Father and His Son and trying to rescue his son. And there’s Booth’s understanding of that and then there are these lighter comedic moments with Pickering, interviewing everybody charming and very funny.
Dwight H. Little 28:32
By the way, that could have gone badly. That’s one of those guest spots where that might not have worked, that character.
Emily Deschanel 28:39
She did great.
Carla Gallo 28:40
She did light through line in a heavier […].
Dwight H. Little 28:44
But she’s also serious.
Carla Gallo 28:45
She is, she’s taking it very serious. But everything that happens, like her with Hodgins being like, “You’re harmless” and he’s like, […].
Dwight H. Little 28:53
That was great.
Carla Gallo 28:53
It’s so funny. And her with Angela, she’s like, “You know your husband?” I thought that seems so great, too. Where Angela’s like, “Oh, my husband”. Did that take? You know how it is, like a fire ritual in Fiji or whatever.
Dwight H. Little 29:04
You know how that goes.
Carla Gallo 29:06
So, all that stuff is so light. As I was watching, it was so interesting because Dwight is having to direct every color of the rainbow.
Dwight H. Little 29:15
It opens with the TV show.
Carla Gallo 29:17
The TV Show Interview.
Dwight H. Little 29:18
Which is hysterical.
Carla Gallo 29:20
So funny.
Emily Deschanel 29:21
I know I like that.
Dwight H. Little 29:22
There’ll be more later about how baskets can harm your children.
Carla Gallo 29:27
Wicker is the new leather.
Emily Deschanel 29:29
Yeah.
Carla Gallo 29:30
I know in her answers and the way she’s, you know?
Emily Deschanel 29:32
I do one thing and then I do another. I do the other.
Carla Gallo 29:35
How do you do both jobs?
Dwight H. Little 29:37
Quintessential bones, it was pure a 100 proof bones, right?
Emily Deschanel 29:43
Yes.
Dwight H. Little 29:44
Just the way she handled that […].
Emily Deschanel 29:46
Both bones the show and bones the character.
Dwight H. Little 29:50
Specifically the character.
Emily Deschanel 29:51
The tone you get, like some light tone and then it’s also showing the character.
Dwight H. Little 29:56
She doesn’t thinks she’s crazy, I don’t mean crazy. No, she doesn’t think there’s anything about her that’s unusual.
Emily Deschanel 30:05
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 30:05
Right?
Emily Deschanel 30:06
She’s talking about the fact that she is probably neuro diversion and potentially on the spectrum of autism and that clearly like not picking up on social cues that can be an aspect of that. Brennan’s not thinking there’s anything wrong with what is happening like she’s answering the questions as asked.
Carla Gallo 30:26
She asks Booth like, “You didn’t tell me, how did I do? How did I like?”. She doesn’t know that she did not do well.
Emily Deschanel 30:35
Yeah […].
Dwight H. Little 30:37
Well, you’re gonna get better, you’ll get better. But, she got up in such a huff too, which I also takes off her little.
Carla Gallo 30:45
She made a face too. She had this smile the whole time.
Dwight H. Little 30:48
Then she becomes herself.
Emily Deschanel 30:50
Jamie Raymond Newman, who I went to college with.
Dwight H. Little 30:53
Really?
Emily Deschanel 30:53
Yes, I remember connecting with her. She was a couple years below me in college. But then she also transferred, she ended up transferring to Northwestern, where my sister went. So then my sister had a class with her.
Carla Gallo 31:04
So funny.
Dwight H. Little 31:06
I want to pick up on something you said, because the episode works for me and I think for the audience because of thatending, it sneaks up on you.
Emily Deschanel 31:16
Oh, yeah.
Carla Gallo 31:17
Oh, it caught me.
Dwight H. Little 31:18
Right? You don’t see it coming and when Booth rescues that kid.
Carla Gallo 31:22
And angel co or decor comes and you hold on.
Dwight H. Little 31:27
Paladin or whatever.
Carla Gallo 31:30
Yes.
Dwight H. Little 31:31
And it pays off and you could get caught up in it.
Carla Gallo 31:35
I absolutely do.
Dwight H. Little 31:36
I don’t think I did another episode in the 23, I did great episodes.
Emily Deschanel 31:42
Yes, you did.
Dwight H. Little 31:43
Ringing my own bell, the circus.
Emily Deschanel 31:47
Does many things that go into it, like having a great script that you do and had a great job.
Dwight H. Little 31:52
We never had an emotional thing like that.
Emily Deschanel 31:56
Oh yeah.
Dwight H. Little 31:57
In any of those episodes, we have funny endings, we had tense endings, but we never had that just raw emotion and that, I think is unusual about the woman in the car. I don’t even know if I knew I was shooting it honestly.
Carla Gallo 32:13
I mean, it’s funny because you held on Zeljko when he sees the sun, because the sun’s like “Dad” and then you hold on him.
Dwight H. Little 32:22
I’m looking at this on the monitor thing, this fucking guy. He’s so good. You come out at three in the morning.
Emily Deschanel 32:30
Oh, yeah.Right.
Dwight H. Little 32:32
You thought was dead.
Emily Deschanel 32:33
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 32:34
Ready? Act.
Emily Deschanel 32:35
Right. Act like you’re reunited with this funny bone dead.
Dwight H. Little 32:40
Go.
Emily Deschanel 32:40
Do the other.
Dwight H. Little 32:42
One more for focus.
Emily Deschanel 32:43
Exactly.
Dwight H. Little 32:44
And he’s just sitting there, bringing it. I was looking at whoever was next to me, maybe the script supervisor or somebody, and I’m like, “Are you seeing this?”.
Emily Deschanel 32:54
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 32:56
You know, we got surprised.
Emily Deschanel 32:57
I remember being so impressed and talking to my agent about having him on as a guest star, because I knew him from other things and thought he was such a great actor and my agent being, “Oh, yeah”. He’s also done the a lot of theater, he comes from the theater. Oh, wait, this is not on topic exactly, but it has to do with him. One memory I have with him is that we are sitting in the FBI set and when on the FBI set, there’s a window that goes out, and the FBI set changed over different years and stuff, but there’s a backdrop that you look out over, and I think we had the same backdrop the whole time. He looks out and he says, “That’s not DC. That’s New York City”.
Dwight H. Little 33:40
He knew it right away.
Emily Deschanel 33:42
That’s New York City.
Carla Gallo 33:42
No.
Emily Deschanel 33:42
He’s like, “I think my friend lives in that building over there”, he pointed it out. I just had that memory and so I texted Hart recently, because I knew we were going to be talking about this episode. And I said, “Hart, do you remember how we got this backdrop? Is it possible that it wasn’t DC, that might have been New York?”. And he said, “Oh, 100%”, it was just recycled from some other shows. Like, those things are expensive so after the last, cost so much money. The FBI setas well was recycled from another show.
Carla Gallo 34:20
Of course, it was not too thick.
Emily Deschanel 34:22
Yeah, because they needed to scream in other places. But, I digress. I think there’s different things that come to my mind, like themes and stuff like the devotion to the children you have at the beginning. The first scene, Brennan says shedoesn’t have children. Of course, that changes for Brennan over the course of the series. That’s a pretty big change.
Carla Gallo 34:47
Booth calls it. He’s like, “You’ll change your mind”.
Emily Deschanel 34:49
Yes.
Carla Gallo 34:50
And he say “No, I won’t”. He said “Say well”.
Emily Deschanel 34:52
And at that time, we didn’t know how long the show was gonna last. Brennan would ever have children […].
Dwight H. Little 34:57
There’s no way to know.
Emily Deschanel 34:58
Yeah. I mean, Brennan had children because I had children too. I mean, that’s a big part of it, but we have that. And then not just like Brennan not wanting children, then them having discussions about whether having children, bringing child into this world or not. But also being a parent, thinking from the perspective, it wasn’t Decker’s intelligence that helps you figure out what his next move will be. It’s what motivates him and that is being a father, being a parent, and which Booth understands.
Dwight H. Little 35:34
We went out on the sidewalk somewhere and shot a video of him training.
Emily Deschanel 35:41
I have a story about this and I wonder if you remember, but go ahead, tell the story.
Dwight H. Little 35:45
Also, I want to tell the casting of that kid, but you tell your story first.
Emily Deschanel 35:48
Well, okay. It’s a memory that I have that’s so funny that this was the first episode that you directed, because this like little exchange we had, it’s not a huge story. We had a little exchange and we knew each other in this exchange. You showed me on set […] and the woman who plays the dead woman.
Dwight H. Little 36:08
Right.
Emily Deschanel 36:09
And the little boy and you shoot this sequence of him riding his bike for the first time. Then we were there shooting the scene where we’re watching the video, it’s a scene in Brennan’s office with Booth and Brennan, you show us the video and it’s supposed to be a home video, I’m like, “There’s edits in this video. Who has a home video with edits?” this is before people do that. This would have been shot on a camcorder and people don’t usually have edits. Then I remember you saying, “Of course you noticed that. I thought you might notice that, or something like” […]. I didn’t noticethat when watching the episode, it’s like you can see the edit. You’re going from that to our scene between the two of us so, it’s not like you’re only watching that.
Dwight H. Little 37:03
Well, the way I thought I’d get away with it is the inner cuts of the people watching.
Emily Deschanel 37:08
Yeah, but I wasn’t thinking about that.
Dwight H. Little 37:10
But that’s like noticing.
Carla Gallo 37:11
Oh, I see. So you’re cut away. You come back to the video and see the difference.
Dwight H. Little 37:14
Doesn’t remember. But, it’s just a very good call.
Emily Deschanel 37:18
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 37:18
And it was true. It’s like we’re editing a home movie and this is before, what is all these programs […]. So, we were trying to cast the young actor to play the boy, and we talked about all in the thing was we would always send the network in the studio, a minimum of two and Hart, too. Well, Hart first and then the network in studio and sometimes they’d ask forthree, so that it’s like Eric Millegan would say to me.
Emily Deschanel 37:57
Eric Millegan, it was our casting director for many years.
Dwight H. Little 38:03
They said that Dwight make sure that the actors you send, make sure that you are okay if they say yes because you’re not necessarily going to get your first choice.
Emily Deschanel 38:14
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 38:15
So, don’t send anybody up that you’re going to be devastated. So we set up two or three young man boys and we got word back that Fox casting. Now this is actually in the book Fox casting wants to go with, we’ll call him Adam, which was the second or third choice for us.
Carla Gallo 38:36
Okay.
Dwight H. Little 38:37
So, I was kind of upset and I got my Irish up, as they say and I broke the chain of command, and I called Fox casting which is way out of line. I mean, that’s the producers business, that’s not the episode direct. But I was pissed, so I called them and this assistant takes the phones. I said, this is Dwight Little. You don’t know me, but I’m directing the current episode of Bones. And I have a question for I had found out what her name was, I can’t remember. I have a question, “Doyou think she could call you back? Or is she there? Can I talk to her?” As I “No, she’s busy” and I said, “Okay, well, here’s my number”. I never expected to hear back. So, a few hours goes by and this lady calls me back, I don’t want to name names, because it was kind of very huffy attitude, like, “What is this regarding?” I said, “Well, it’s regarding the casting of episode, whatever and there’s a boy that we sent up, and we’re all very excited about him, and you guys havepassed on him, I was curious why”. And she said, “Well, I don’t know anything about that. Let me get back to you”.
Emily Deschanel 39:45
So, it wasn’t her that was deciding?
Dwight H. Little 39:47
I gotta get to the punchline. The punchline is the decision had been made by a 25 year old assistant who had been given the casting tape and she made the choice.
Carla Gallo 40:01
What?
Dwight H. Little 40:01
Now, they agreed to switch it and go back to our first choice. And then I got really reprimanded, not by heart but I took the hit.
Carla Gallo 40:12
Good for you.
Dwight H. Little 40:12
I took the hit because I would never do that.
Carla Gallo 40:15
No, but are you so glad that you’re dead man?
Emily Deschanel 40:18
You have to stand up for something.
Dwight H. Little 40:19
But, it was the whole show.
Emily Deschanel 40:21
It doesn’t make sense that somebody up an assistant (no offense to assistants everywhere). But all these people who have decades of experience put together, are making that decision. And when you have somebody who’s, you know, it’s like taste, people like certain actors over other actors and it’s just like, “Oh, I like that type of person more or whatever itcan be such a random things”.
Dwight H. Little 40:44
But that last scene, he delivers.
Emily Deschanel 40:46
Oh, yeah.
Dwight H. Little 40:47
And he delivers, we were saying earlier in two or three takes and we didn’t have time.
Carla Gallo 40:51
He’s under the table, was like “Get away from me”, and he’s holding his hands.
Dwight H. Little 40:55
Anyway, that’s an interesting. I’ve not done that in my career because it doesn’t help longevity.
Carla Gallo 41:04
But, how nice that you fought for him.
Dwight H. Little 41:05
Yes, I did fought him.
Carla Gallo 41:06
Right? He can only do it so many […].
Emily Deschanel 41:07
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 41:08
You don’t wanna play that car.
Emily Deschanel 41:16
More from Dwight Little after this quick ad break.
Emily Deschanel 41:30
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Emily Deschanel 44:21
And we have an exciting code for our listeners. Visit www.happymammoth.com and use code Boneheads for 15% off your first order site wide. That’s www.happymammoth.com for 15% off. I’m curious, too. Do you remember the storyline with Goodman?
Carla Gallo 44:56
I was just gonna ask. I was literally just gonna ask that.
Emily Deschanel 44:59
There’s that storyline with Pickering talking to Goodman.
Carla Gallo 45:03
When she gets to the point where she’s interviewing, but she’s got this whole thing which.
Emily Deschanel 45:10
He has a relationship with this woman, Lily Marsden and it goes nowhere, basically. I think there was an attempt a lot oftimes, I think they didn’t know what to do with the character of Goodman as they realized it and that’s what Hart will tell you, when they’re trying to do something that was interesting, but it kind of goes nowhere where he is kind of in trouble or not really questioning him about his relationship with a woman who is like an activist.
Dwight H. Little 45:36
I don’t understand that scene.
Emily Deschanel 45:38
Yeah, okay.
Dwight H. Little 45:39
I remember he was a good actor.
Carla Gallo 45:41
Yeah, very good.
Emily Deschanel 45:42
Well, he was no longer series regular on Bones after the first season, sadly. Very good and has that amazing voice too.
Dwight H. Little 45:51
Really good, his presence was great.
Emily Deschanel 45:53
Just fantastic. I know it was sad that he didn’t come back after that. I think they kind of realized that his character wasn’t part of solving the crimes and so he didn’t serve a big purpose in each episode solving a crime. So, he’s kind of a little superfluous and then they were just trying to figure out what to do with him. […] He was an archeologist, I believe.
Carla Gallo 46:24
Almost like he was a therapist. I mean, in this episode, you’re talking about anthropology and actually, I guess that’s Booth.
Emily Deschanel 46:31
I know, he’s not even really an anthropologist.
Carla Gallo 46:33
He talks a lot about something. I’ve noticed in episodes he’ll be like, “Well, this I call it, what someone would do in this”. And I was like, “I think they’re […]”.
Emily Deschanel 46:39
Busy to try to make it work for half someone they had to do.
Dwight H. Little 46:42
They could’ve just write for it for some reason. They couldn’t write to him […].
Emily Deschanel 46:47
It happens on this show and a lot of other shows. Well, I think we’ve covered pretty much everything from this episode with Mr. Dwight Little.
Dwight H. Little 46:59
I read that it was one of the most watched episodes. Did you read, though?
Emily Deschanel 47:03
I did not read that.
Dwight H. Little 47:04
There was a news release about it?
Emily Deschanel 47:06
No.
Dwight H. Little 47:07
You need to look it up […].
Emily Deschanel 47:12
Really?
Carla Gallo 47:12
It really is a great episode.
Dwight H. Little 47:15
It’s the emotional episode […].
Carla Gallo 47:17
It is.
Emily Deschanel 47:18
Because you also like, “Not every episode is there something”. I mean, we had to find child, we had a missing child.
Carla Gallo 47:26
Who’s potentially alive as well.
Emily Deschanel 47:28
Who has been tortured. His fingers missing has been sent to Booth, terrifying. The stakes are couldn’t be higher, reallyand so it’s a really exciting episode.
Dwight H. Little 47:41
I love that Brennan wanted to go, she vested up.
Emily Deschanel 47:44
Yes.
Dwight H. Little 47:45
And she wanted to go all guns and ammo, she was ready to go. Well, it was actually written that he has to say just this one time. He says, just this one time, do as I ask, right? And don’t rush the like you’re not an army seal. But, the characterwants to put the vest on and go.
Emily Deschanel 48:06
Right.
Dwight H. Little 48:06
Do you remember that?
Emily Deschanel 48:07
Yes.
Dwight H. Little 48:08
Like, I want to get my gun and I want to go.
Emily Deschanel 48:10
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 48:11
And Booth has to say, “Just this one time, listen to me”.
Emily Deschanel 48:15
Yeah. I also like the fact when Brennan looks at the finger that’s been cut off. She says something or I say something like, “You think I don’t care, I do care. I have to just look at the finger and not think about the child that it came from, in order to do my job”. That doesn’t mean I don’t care and I like that too […].
Dwight H. Little 48:39
That’s maybe the most important line of the whole series, right?
Emily Deschanel 48:42
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 48:42
Because that’s the whole thing with her, I have to compartmentalize this or otherwise.
Emily Deschanel 48:49
That doesn’t mean I don’t care.
Dwight H. Little 48:51
Yeah.
Emily Deschanel 48:51
Yeah.
Carla Gallo 48:52
Yeah, I know.
Dwight H. Little 48:53
This does the best thing in the whole episode, for sure because that’s the point of her character.
Emily Deschanel 48:59
Yeah.
Dwight H. Little 48:59
Anyway, I forgot about that long.
Emily Deschanel 49:02
Yeah. Well thanks, Dwight. Everyone should pick up this book, it really is great. Oh, great advice for people.
Dwight H. Little 49:09
It’s good for film students, for sure.
Carla Gallo 49:10
Yeah, still rolling.
Dwight H. Little 49:12
Yeah, if you think you might want to go to AFI or NYU or USC or anywhere, this would be fun book for you to see.
Emily Deschanel 49:20
Yeah, there’s a few young filmmakers that I know that I want to buy it for christmas gifts.
Dwight H. Little 49:27
Oh, good sales. We need sales.
Emily Deschanel 49:29
Yeah.
Carla Gallo 49:30
Well, thank you so much, so cool.
Emily Deschanel 49:40
That was nice.
Carla Gallo 49:40
It was so nice and insightful.
Emily Deschanel 49:44
I know, he’s very insightful and helpful.
Carla Gallo 49:47
And he said he has a memory of any episode you mentioned to me. I have very definitive memories of that. I was kind of impressed because all the work he’s doing in 23 episodes is, I don’t remember.
Emily Deschanel 50:02
That’s just of one show and he’s saying, you can do that with any show.
Carla Gallo 50:05
Yeah.
Emily Deschanel 50:06
He says he can remember the shots.
Carla Gallo 50:09
Yeah, he did say that. That is wild.
Emily Deschanel 50:12
I don’t know.
Carla Gallo 50:12
It’s really cool to hear behind the scenes and like, what went into something and the choices that were made and fighting for that child actor, it’s just fascinating.
Emily Deschanel 50:25
Should we take a fan question?
Carla Gallo 50:26
Oh gosh, sure.
Emily Deschanel 50:27
We’re just jumping in.
Carla Gallo 50:27
Let’s do it.
Emily Deschanel 50:28
Let’s just jumping into it.
Carla Gallo 50:29
Let’s do it.
Emily Deschanel 50:29
Okay. This is a question from Twyla So. Did anyone get to keep anything from set when the show wrapped? And the answer is yes, some things. What did you keep, Carla?
Carla Gallo 50:47
I didn’t get a lot. I do love, a keepsake or a memento. So, the thing that I have that means the most to me is my ID card,the actual line.
Emily Deschanel 50:58
Yeah, same.
Carla Gallo 50:58
And we use that in the photo for the Boneheads.
Emily Deschanel 51:01
Yes, the Boneheads podcast because there are actual ID cards.
Carla Gallo 51:04
Yeah, so I got that and that means so much to me. And then when the show is wrapping, so sometimes some shows are more free the wardrobe department generous, giving you wardrobe.
Emily Deschanel 51:19
Well, it’s not the wardrobe department, it’s Fox owned all of the department.
Carla Gallo 51:22
But, I’ve had them slip me thing, like I’ll be on a show and they’ll just be like, “Here, just take this”. Like, “We bought this for you, just take it. It’s you”. But, that doesn’t happen to be very often. When the show was wrapping completely the whole series, they were like, “Not only what do you want” not like, “What do you want to pick anything”, but they were like, “Here are a bunch of dresses” but also, “Here are a bunch of kids clothes that we bought for Booth and Brennan’sdaughter”, they were never worn. At the time, I had a two and a half year old, and it’s funny because there’s a raincoat. It’s like an Oshkosh pink, I don’t know if that one, if she ever wore it, but it’s like a fuzzy lining that went from my older daughter wearing it to my younger daughter now wears it. And so when she does, I always think that’s from Bones, that’s Christine’s jacket.
Emily Deschanel 52:25
Oh, moving on.
Carla Gallo 52:27
What about you?
Emily Deschanel 52:28
I have my ID. I have my placard that says tempers Brennan, that was in front of or I think it says temperance Brennan infront of my office. Think it says, like, “Temperance Brennan in forensic anthropology or forensic anthropology department”. I have the back of my director’s chair. I have a jacket from an episode that was me when we did anepisode later on, it was like, 11th or 12th season. We went under cover, I had a crazy wig. I think I might have even been pregnant at the time or maybe just after having been pregnant. I had a jean jacket, my character. I don’t know if it’s a Bone Crusher or something like that. I have that jacket and I think I kept a couple […] like coats, jackets, or whatever. They were very particular about letting us take anything. At the end, they let us have a little bit. They took a elephant from the set, but it was a decorative elephant that was in our house. Then I’m like, “What am I doing?”, I don’t have sentimental value with that, the chair back. I have a burnt bone.
Carla Gallo 53:53
You did?
Emily Deschanel 53:55
Yeah. So, I have a couple mementos.
Carla Gallo 53:58
That’s nice.
Emily Deschanel 53:58
Yeah? Nothing huge.
Carla Gallo 54:01
No. That’s nice. I know it’s nice of a keepsake. It’s meaningful.
Emily Deschanel 54:06
Yeah, thanks for the question, Twyla So and if you have a question yourself you want to ask us, please DM us on Instagram at Boneheads Pod. Thank you, we’ll see you next week.
Carla Gallo 54:19
Thank you so much.
Emily Deschanel 54:24
There’s more Boneheads with Lemonada premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content, like excerpts from interviews, extra fan questions and more behind the scenes convos. Subscribe now on Apple podcasts.
CREDITS 54:37
Boneheads is a production of Lemonada Media and us. Our producer is Alex McOwen. Our engineers are Brian Castillo and Noah Smith. Our senior vice president of weekly content is Steve Nelson. Our executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer and us; Emily Deschanel and Carla Gallo. Music by Doug Paisley. To stay up to date with us and submit your listener questions, follow us on Instagram @Boneheadspod and @LemonadaMedia on all social channels. Follow Boneheads wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership. Thanks so much for listening.
