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Description

This week, our cast tries to reconcile some old ghosts of the past with the future they are working hard to build. Mariana moved to the United States from Guatemala to seek asylum after dealing with hate crimes and anti-trans sentiment there, but a visit back home dredges up old wounds and fears that she attempts to overcome. And back in Los Angeles… Chloe played football through most of her life prior to transitioning and almost went on to coach at the collegiate level. She’s looking for a way to reconnect with the sport but is struggling with the masculine image of football and how it might set back her quest to be fully accepted as a woman.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Jeffrey, Chloe, Mariana, Robert, Sy, Eve, Gary, Fernando, Stephanie, Cadence

Chloe 

Previously on being trans.

Jeffrey 

I’ve decided I’m turning down the college dates. I’ve made peace with it just gonna apply everywhere. And I’m gonna focus on writing.

Chloe 

I’m still relatively new to LA and Mariana, Who’s stopping by tonight is one of my first friends here.

Mariana 

Last night we had this party. A lot of love a lot of hugs. A lot of good-looking guys around.

Eve

I knew that you had gone on a date, right? And then what happened since then?

Chloe 

She said that she’s only into masculine women. And I don’t fit that and I was like, oh, I’m actually okay with that.

Sy 

Does mean not being a woman mean anything to you in that way?

Robert 

I actually want to be with you specifically. Like literally since we started dating. I have never been happier. You could only become more attractive.

Chloe 

My name is Chloe Corcoran.

Sy 

Im Sy Clark Chan.

Mariana 

My name is Mariana.

Sy 

On this episode, we follow Mariana.

Mariana 

Going back to my country is it brings a lot of emotions

Sy 

And will also follow Chloe.

Chloe 

Had I not been trans I would have coached college football.

Sy 

This is BEING: TRANS

Jeffrey 

Hello!

Chloe 

These are some things that I’m going to need. Boxing gloves.

Jeffrey 

Why do you need boxing gloves?

Chloe 

In case I gotta mess up some fools.

Jeffrey 

But you still don’t want to mess up your hands.

Chloe 

So I’ve been trying to get a lot healthier lately and working out with a trainer. And I know Jeffrey’s gotten into a fitness routine to so we’re at the sporting goods store. It’s just to see what they have.

Jeffrey 

See. I think what’s weird is so I played tons of sports. I played softball; I play basketball. I played tennis for a second. I played soccer. I played volleyball.

Chloe 

Oh my gosh, you played everything

Jeffrey 

Was insane. I was the setter.

Chloe 

Oh, that’s so cool.

Jeffrey 

I think you might have told me this. But you played football, right?

Chloe 

Yeah. I played offensive line. And my job was to either move people or keep somebody from getting hurt, like keeping the quarterback from getting hit.

Jeffrey 

So you’re the one who like holds out their hand and like stops people.

Chloe 

Growing up, there were a lot of things they did, because of certain gender expectations. And football may have been one of those things. But it also brought me a lot of joy. I know football has that toxic masculinity culture. I was lucky not to have been immersed in that too much. The thing I really miss about playing football was that it was the only time I couldn’t think about my gender. You can’t let your mind wander when you’re playing football. So I couldn’t think about like my identity and all that stuff. So it was self-protective and saving, in a lot of ways.

Jeffrey 

Wow. That’s crazy.

Chloe 

I think it was the only time I had a mentor. Like a real mentor was my offensive line coach. His name was Jason […] And I didn’t know him after I transitioned. But because he passed away, unfortunately, I almost went to coach with him in Ohio. And that was something I ended up turning down because I knew I was going to transition at some point. Yeah. And I don’t know if he was disappointed. I don’t know how he felt about it. But I’m still like, a little jammed up about it. Like that was a decision point in my life like things could have been very, very different. I stopped playing football because honestly my body was shot. But it was still really hard to step away from the game entirely. I don’t think the sport was ready for a trans coach at the time, and probably still isn’t

Jeffrey 

Did you tell him why?

Chloe 

No, I told him that I didn’t think it was right for me at the time. And yeah, I know he was disappointed at the time because he kind of went out on a whim for me a little bit because I hadn’t coached linebackers before, I hadn’t played linebacker. So he was, you know, he just given me a great opportunity. And I kind of I mean, I had to not do it in my mind. But also, like, had I not been trans, I would have coached college football.

Jeffrey 

We were in a world where everything was like, fine, do you think you’d still be coaching?

Chloe 

Yes, I would still be coaching, I would definitely still be coaching. I love coaching. And one of the most painful aspects of transitioning is that so many things fall out of your life. For a lot of people, it’s family, work, or something else that you loved. As tough as it is, it’s nowhere near as difficult as going through life living as something other than your authentic self.

Jeffrey 

Can you still play? Like they have a bunch of softball leagues and all sorts of stuff. I bet they have flag football leagues.

Chloe 

Yes, I still like, I like watching it.

Jeffrey 

I’ll totally go with you. Because even if you don’t play, I bet you coach or referee or something.

Chloe 

I don’t know. I’m going to get this. Thank you.

Cadence 

Hello. My name is Mariana Marroquin. I’m 44, trans woman. I live in Los Angeles, California. Originally from Guatemala. I am the program manager of Los Angeles LGBT Center Trans Wellness Center. I am at the park for a picnic with Jeff, Sy, and my dear friend and co-worker Cadence is going to join us.

Sy 

I haven’t actually looked at them. But I see. Oh, wow.

Cadence 

They still love ya. What do you have been up to?

Sy 

This week. There’s so much going on in my life. My kid is turning four. And we’re finding a birthday party for him doing that big bounce house conversations at my house. We’re having it on his school. And I was like, I don’t think there’s a room for a bounce house at the school. And Robert was like, oh, I measured. Ever since Robert and I had our big, you know, conversation or we talked out my feelings about my transition. We’ve been in an amazing place in our marriage. And you know, we’re both starting to get more serious about the next step for our family and become homeowners.

Cadence 

Oh, my goodness. That’s exciting. That ya’ll looking for houses.

Sy 

Mostly what’s been going on with me.

Cadence 

Yeah, I’m leaving Wednesday back to Guatemala. Like 20 days.

Jeffrey 

When’s the last time you went?

Cadence 

I only been back a couple of times in 2018, I believe. I came to Los Angeles in 1998. I have to leave my country on difficult circumstances. I experienced a horrible hate crime. And I have no option by just leaving my country. Guatemala is still a very dangerous place for people like me. I’m coming back because I’m one of the lucky one that still have family and friends that I can reconnect with. Going back to my country is it brings a lot of emotions. I get so excited about like, you know, eating the food that I grew up eating, seeing people, family, friends, at the same time, it brings like a lot of fear. You know, I don’t know if I share with you but I experienced horrible things over there. And that’s the reason I left my country. So going back is always a mix of things. I was in the middle of a horrible moment and people wanted to kill me. And that was the moment that I decided to that I have to leave that it was not safe for me. There is so much hate and transphobia around the world but back in 1997 and what Amala it was difficult for everyone that was the French government to place something called social cleans and they were targeting Every single person that looks or sounds different. It’s still difficult for me to talk about what happened there. But at the same time, I’m glad that I survived and I can tell my story. And my family came around also, my extended family. They used to criticize my mom a lot. It was very painful. Everybody was saying like, she was doing something wrong like you need that much or embrace me that much. And they don’t ask questions. I believe that they don’t want to know what’s happening with my life. Which is horrible, because I want to tell them, but they don’t. So it’s all these emotions. I’m going with my mom. She’s very attached to our country. I feel like this is home. I feel like this is my country. This is where Mariana became Mariana. And I get a lot of chances over here, a lot of opportunities. So we’ll see.

Cadence 

I’ve moved here from North Carolina, and that plays have so much you know, paying for me. You could not pay me to go back. If your mom didn’t go back would you go back?

Mariana 

Probably not. Mommy, do you want to check my new closet and see? Okay, let’s go. Now, I’m packing with my mom. Because we’re leaving tomorrow to Guatemala and I want to look my best celebration of life. I wear bright colors, high heeled boots, and everything is like saying something is saying that I’m alive. And that I love life. And I love, love. What about this one? […] So this is not to share because it’s short. I’m gonna try these on. […] My mommy always has something to say about my outfits, too short, to shine too much, or that is too long. Why you need that jacket. I understand that she’s worried about me. And I actually worry about putting her in danger also, but it’s important for me to look good over there and to be me. I don’t want to be different. Mariana I want them to see me as I am. What do you think about these boots? […]. Too much. […] I’m ready to go to Guatemala with this one. So my mom and I were best friends, we talk about everything. I cannot imagine my life without her support. I hear about how other people they struggle by not having that relationship with their parents. And for me, it’s hard to imagine me finding a way in a world that is telling me that I shall not be existing, or that I should not be successful or I don’t understand love. Because the first love is my mom’s love. And that’s a lot. Mommy, what do you think about this guy that I’m talking with? So this one is from Turkey. What do you think about him? You approved this one? your liking? I gotta tell you right now. My mom says […]

Chloe 

I’m excited. I’ve been thrown a ball around and forever.

Jeffrey 

Are you nervous about throwing a football? Do you think it’s gonna come right back to you?

Chloe 

No, it’s gonna come back to me. Jeff and I found a local LGBTQ plus flag football Lee and we both register to play, Jeff’s never played football before. So we’re at the park to play around, throw the ball and I can practice a little bit too.

Jeffrey 

I know nothing about like football for him. I do know this from something. You put your fingers on the bottom half of the laces. And then now I’m going to spiral this bad boy. All right. So I do that. That was really nice. Yours does the spiral thing when you throw it.

Chloe 

So you have to come roll it off your back two fingers.

Jeffrey 

What? I can do that watch this; this is going to be perfect. That was not the worst. That was beautiful. Yours was like Yours like slices through their minds like a toddler tumbling down a hill through the air.

Chloe 

It’s cool being out here. Like it’s all coming back to me, I can still throw the ball around, I can still catch and I miss this. Yeah, so this is what I was doing most of the time if you want to hold the ball for a second. So you would be behind me by about five yards. Protecting the quarterback, I’d have to get down into stance like this. And then I would start here, and then go to here, and then go to here. You don’t want anybody to beat you across your face. So you actually stepped a little bit forward with it. My position was pretty aggressive. And yeah, I’ve lost a lot of strength through transitioning. It’s weird to go through all these motions again, and what’s essentially a new body for me, but my mechanics are still there. And I feel like I could still play if I wanted to.

Jeffrey 

What’s going on?

Chloe 

Sorry, like that guy over there. Just keeps looking at us in like, like keeps looking over here and I just don’t like it. I don’t like that guy. It’s just really weird. And I always get a little nervous and on edge like I don’t know what people are going to do.

Jeffrey 

Yeah. All right. Well, I’m good if you’re good. You want to go?

Chloe 

Okay, yeah, yeah, like if we could go that would be great.

Mariana 

Here we are. Are you happy? We just arrived from LA. The first thing to do when you come back to Guatemala is to see the family, they want to see you, they want to feed you, they make your favorite food and all the oldest stuff. The plan is just to rest.

Mariana 

But this is the city, this is the beautiful what Amala city messy, busy noisy. This part right here now it’s close. My apartment was like nearby, just like a few steps right here. All the shows will be the first. The first one of the first gay clubs that I went to on their age. They were very selective about like, of course, gay men were super welcome and lesbians of course but the access for trans only if you come into the show. Other than that, you were not allowed to go in. And I was lucky to go in and I didn’t have a cell phone. So you have to come here to use the payphone. And being on the street, put you right there as a target to be bullied or to be attacked. It’s scary actually. I asked myself what am I, why I’m doing this. But I’m connecting with a part of me that needs to heal. I’m connecting to the part of me that I, that is real and is there. I have a lot of goons did I have a lot of things today I should be grateful about Guatemala and I need to make these with that it takes time. I’m here, we here at Guatemala so nice to see friends and family, this is my people they know me since I was a baby, I feel the love and I feel so many memories, good and bad, everything comes back.

Mariana 

I know that I should not be here because this is still a dangerous place for someone like me or any LGBTQ person by seeing my friends that my family fills my heart with joy and I feel that I’m one of the lucky ones that I can come back them so happy. […] Okay, we just, I had to get out of there because, my aunt is she just misgendered me and I don’t know how to feel. She’s happy to see us. And then she says something like that. And I don’t know how to take it. I don’t know what her intention is. But I just feel like I don’t want to stay there. My mom is gonna stay there and I think it’s fine. I don’t want to make people feel uncomfortable when I’m not comfortable. I gonna go and stay with my friend Ricardo. Ricardo is gay. I think this is something important about the chosen family. When you find people who doesn’t want to see you or treat you the way you deserve. I think you need to surround yourself with love and the people that is really supporting you.

Chloe 

It’s good to see you. Stephanie Barbosa is my good friend who is also my trainer. Today, we’re going to even the playing field a little bit and go hit some balls at a driving range. Because it’s not either of our strengths. So it should be fun.

Stephanie 

Let’s do it. I feel like I’m gonna miss that. I don’t know. It’s hard. Am I hitting it? It’s still right there. I didn’t hit it.

Chloe 

That’s okay. The other day when I was throwing the football around with Jeffrey, I felt really uncomfortable when I saw somebody staring at me. And I’m guessing it’s because I’m trans and he read me that way. Being read as trans is the struggle for a lot of us because people start treating you differently. And even people with good intentions start treating you differently. And in that moment for me, it just didn’t make me feel safe. And honestly, it’s making me rethink this whole football thing. Actually, I found this LGBTQ plus flag Football League here in LA that I was going to play with Jeffrey but I don’t think it’s going to happen.

Stephanie 

So it’s something that you’ve ever like kind of feared about like going back to that world and that headspace and that physical, like mental and emotional space, because I know when I play sports, I do get very competitive. And like, for, I guess, lack of a better way to describe it is that like, it’s a very like alpha, like very masculine like, like drive that makes me want to conquer.

Chloe 

Yeah, that’s what has me worried about playing out like, I don’t want to put myself in light of being seen as masculine again, it shouldn’t be that way. But it is that way. Like, it shouldn’t be like an alpha masculine thing, but it is that way right now, like, that’s how people perceive it. So I don’t know that I’m 100% ready to jump into that. So once you transition, you go on to constantly fight perceptions of you. And it’s really easier said than done to not like other people’s opinions of fact, what I do, like, there’s a constant push and pull of wanting to be my authentic self still, which has some things that other people might consider masculine. I feel like I consistently have to go out of my way to reinforce that I’m a woman, because so many people want to knock me down and say, yeah, but like, here are a set of things that you can fit into to reinforce your femininity, because this is what the world believes in.

Stephanie 

But at least five football is different than football. It’s completely different than football. I think you should just do it because it’s something fun. And it’s something familiar, like, I know that it is like, football is very like heavy, like masculine, like manly man like drive, but like you still enjoy watching football. Like it’s always on. Yeah, it’s always on and like, but there’s other girls that do watch football. And I think that you should just approach the same things that you’ve done that make you happy with a different like perception. Which is like, already, like physically and mentally and emotionally what you’re doing. And I don’t think you should be afraid to try the things that you’ve done before that bring you joy. I think that’s kind of just a fear. And I don’t think you should be scared.

Mariana 

[…] so cute. I’m so excited to see my nephew, Fernando. Fernando, and I have a special connection. He’s sweet. He’s smart. And he’s coming to visit and we’re going to spend some time together […] No, don’t be afraid. If I’ll be afraid to speak English. I will not be like, probably alive. Let’s not be afraid. Let’s practice. But you always dress nice. I used to have so much fun buying new clothes. So I don’t like get back to that and anything you want. Let me know. You know, it’s funny. My mom never talked about you being different or being gay or I don’t know. How do you identify?

Fernando 

I don’t know. I don’t even know. But I only know that I right at the moment. I only like guys.

Mariana 

Okay. Okay, me too. Yeah, so far. Just guys. So how old are you now?

Fernando 

Right now? I’m 19 years old.

Mariana 

Wow. I remember when I was 19. 19 for me was fun, but it was very challenging at the same time. Do you feel that that’s changing? Do you feel like things are changing with? You know, your generation?

Fernando 

Yeah, I went to pride in 2014 I guess, I was 14 years […] a lot of people there with flags and songs and balloons, everything. Then I went with a friend. And it was a great experience.

Mariana 

That’s nice. When I left Guatemala, it was 1998, there was no pride. It was the opposite. That’s why I left you know. So how are things with your mom?

Fernando 

Right now, she thinks that I should be, you know, I should be straight, but I’m not like that. But she thinks I’m going to change someday. But I told her that, no, I’m not.

Mariana 

With her. I don’t know how to approach this. I mean, we grew up together, we used to play Barbies together. I mean, she always knew that I was different.

Fernando 

I know. Now I understand that her problem is the maybe what society is going to do with me. Like, if they’re going to be rude with me, if they’re going to do some bad things with me. She’s scared of them.

Mariana 

Especially in Guatemala. With my mother was the same thing, and she always loved me. And she always supported me. And I think my mom came around that being trans is just a part of me. And she’s, my mom has changed a lot. And I think she’s more comfortable. And she’s definitely learning.

Fernando 

I know that. It’s hard to, it’s hard to me to understand that. She doesn’t accept me at all. But I’ll try to, how do I say this? I’ll try to keep going.

Mariana 

Yeah, there is no other way. You’re 19 now. So keep going. And I think what is important is that you know that she loves you.

Fernando 

Yeah. I understand that. I know, I know that. Maybe in the future, she’s more open. There’s always bad days and good days, but we’re going to figure out how to make them shine and be good ones. Not everything is bad in this world. We got to find out way, the good things in the bad things.

Mariana 

Listening to Fernando’s way of seeing life and his situation. It makes me feel that I’m glad things are changing. Maybe not in the country, but like he’s not afraid. I think he’s being himself at that age. And I think that is beautiful to witness. But I’m sure he’s gonna face a lot of challenges, but he’s brave, and he knows what he’s doing. And I’m so proud of him. I love what you’re saying so much. I’m really happy that you know what’s going on. I didn’t know I was going on when I was your age. If I can be completely honest with you. I didn’t want to leave. I wanted to kill myself when I was pretty young. I’m glad that didn’t happen. But I’m glad that you’re in different place. I really love to hear that for you. And if you ever feel afraid or insecure about something, let me know if I can do anything for you. It makes me so happy. I’m crying not because I’m sad. I’m crying of happiness, okay. Because you make me very proud.

Fernando 

Whenever you feel bad or feel lonely. I’m here. I’m very emotional, but I’ll try to help. Maybe we’re great together.

Mariana 

Oh my god. Yeah. It’s funny that I’m offering you support when you give me so much strength right now. I love you.

Fernando 

I love you too.

Jeffrey 

That’s the first of them. All right, let’s do it. Let’s go make some friends. Oh, you play football? Yeah, me too, no big deal.

Chloe 

It’s the day of the flag football game. And me and Jeffrey are ready to go. We’ve got our flags. And it’s exciting. I still don’t know if I’m going to play but we’ll see. The last time I stepped onto a field to play series football was my last game of my college senior season and it was like watching a piece of you just fly away because I knew that wasn’t going to be able to be a part of my identity and my life anymore. I honestly a little nervous because I’m not used to being in spaces with almost all men. And since I transitioned and like this used to be my space. And now I’m like, I wonder what it’ll be like. So we will see how this goes.

Chloe 

I’m probably not going to play at first. Just want to check it out.

Jeffrey 

I feel pretty good. I feel like everybody’s kind of like, everybody’s chill.

Chloe 

That guy’s, it’s weird, like I’m a little self-conscious at the moment and I shouldn’t be I mean, haven’t been in a very long time. We’re at the field and everybody’s starting to warm up. And I’m just starting to feel a little uneasy. And it’s pretty much all guys here, and I don’t see anyone else who looks like me. I don’t know if this is a place that I want to be. But like, even how I’m standing and like things like that, and it’s like, I don’t want to get back into like, hulking habits.

Jeffrey 

There was a thing in the signup. Did you see there? Was it ref or there’s something..

Chloe 

Yeah, ref. I’m honestly content watching and getting the vibe and seeing how it goes. I’m very aware of my gender right now. This used to be the place that I was most comfortable. And now I don’t know how to feel. You know, part of me wonders if my playing days are just done.

Speaker 6 

Alright guys, here we go. So we’re gonna break you guys up into two teams to start if we end up with more late players, we’ll make up 13 but we’ll start with two and we’re just..

Jeffrey 

I feel bad jumping in while Chloe’s off at the sidelines, even but hopefully she’ll come around and jump in. I’m slipping into the huddle to get things going. If I’m honest, I am freaking terrified. And I don’t know half the words they’re saying. But it’s go time. […] I feel pretty good. The play went well, and I kept up with everybody. Everybody’s really encouraging. Even the guys who you’d think wouldn’t be bothered because they look like pro football players are just like great job and everybody’s high fiving, there’s a lot of camaraderie.

Gary 

Are you Chloe?

Chloe 

Yeah. I’m standing on the sidelines and I’m completely content being supportive of Jeffrey all sudden it just clicks and it’s like I I’ve got to play I can’t sit this one out. I didn’t want to have any regrets when I already have so many when it comes to this sport. I’ve got my flags on and I’m going in.

Speaker 7 

We’re gonna do offense first.

Chloe 

Okay, cool. All right, thanks. Get my flags to stay that would be great. That’s why we wear cleats, right?

Robert 

So in football, we call that a BGD. Big Girl Down.

Jeffrey 

What happened there? Tell me what just happened there.

Chloe 

My footwork just went out the window. My foot works got to be better than that. As soon as I get in the game, I realized I still have my competitive nature and there is no going back. I can’t think about anything else when I’m playing, all my insecurities, all my what ifs, all of how people see me, are out the window and I’m just playing the game. Thanks for doing this. This is awesome. A lot of fun. I appreciate you guys. I think so yeah. I kind of surprised myself today I really didn’t think I was going to play and to end up out there as much as I did was kind of cool. Having people cheer me on as Chloe for the first time was just so fulfilling in something I never thought that I would have. That was fun. I feel tired, but it was good. It was good to get back out there and started to come back after a little bit.

Jeffrey 

And look like your footwork came immediately back.

Chloe 

It took a couple plays. But eventually I got where I wanted to be. I ended up playing a lot.

Jeffrey 

They never work invested in me. But with you immediately, like I don’t know if it was the you said a word or something. But they were like you and they just knew and they didn’t explain anything anymore.

Chloe 

I played more than I thought I was going to, you did well, and you did well in playing zone too. So I think defense is your jam.

Jeffrey 

Defense is my jam.

Chloe 

The sport will always hold a complicated place in my heart from the coach that I let down to what it’s done to my body to how I left the game. But it’s still something that I love, for better or for worse. And yeah, there’s going to be people who always knock my femininity because of it. But I am a woman and I’ve shed a lot of things from my past. But being an athlete doesn’t have to be one of them.

Mariana 

[…] We’re a little bit late. I got hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me close the door. Okay, ready to go. So this is it. Going back home. I miss my bed right now. I think I’m ready to go back home. My mom had a great time. It’s been so much fun. I got to see everybody that I want to see. I went to see a play and the play was so crazy, was like Broadway. Two guys keep making out something I never imagined to see here. That is happening. People are out and not afraid. I think the one that was afraid was me. But seeing that everybody’s comfortable. And now that’s I think that’s great. I’m not I wasn’t sure about if that was the right thing coming here. But I’m glad I’m here. Things are changing. And I’m glad I’m able to come back and see the change and be part of it. I used to see what Amala as this place where I was treated so bad. And I was torture and almost killed. And that is a reality that is in my heart. But I also see the possibilities. And I also see the opportunities. And it’s beautiful to come back and see those the positive change that is happening.

BEING: TRANS is an audio reality original from Lemonada Media’s BEING studios, executive producers are Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Kasey Barrett. Our co-executive producer is Sele Leota. Our associate producer is Myrriah Gossett and our assistant producer is Greta Stromquist. Our consulting producer is Sarah Jossel, Scott Hanlon is our audio supervisor and field Recordist with additional field recording by Maurice Mahiya. Makes him sound designed by David Herman and Michael Raphael. Additional mix sound design and consultation by Ivan Kuraev. Our music is by Signature Tracks. Special thanks to the Hot Donna’s club and the Glendale room. BEING: TRANS is brought to you with generous support from the Marguerite Casey Foundation and Wellbeing Trust. You can find us online at @LemonadaMedia and connect with us across all social platforms. Subscribe to Lemonada Media on Apple podcasts you hear bonus content, deleted scenes and more from our cast. If you like what you heard today, please tell your family and friends to listen and subscribe. Rate and review us on Spotify, Apple, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, thanks for listening and thanks for BEING.