Adult Friendships

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Thanks for tawking with me this season. For our final episode, I wanted to introduce you to one of my best friends. As an adult, it’s difficult to balance a career, kids, relationship, and social life. Add long distance to that list and the situation becomes harder to maintain. True friendships go through ups and downs yet still stand the test of time. What kind of friends are there and what purpose do they serve? How do you know when your friendship is worth the effort? Mary Sierra-Cordes and I tawk. But the conversation doesn’t end here.

Keep up with me on Twitter at @JaimePrimak and on Instagram at @jaimepsullivan. Watch my Facebook Live series – Cawfee Tawk – here. And stay up to date with Lemonada on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at @LemonadaMedia.

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Mary Sierra-Cordes, Jaxon, Jaime Primak Sullivan

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:05

Hello, everybody, and welcome to this week’s episode of Let’s Tawk. I am your host; Jaime Primak Sullivan and I am joined by my co-host Jaxon. And as this is a podcast about making and maintaining adult friendships. I have one of my very best friends on the podcast this week if you watch Jersey Belle, you remember her. I mean, it literally is like the most famous line of the show. Not spoken by me. Miss, get in your lap, get in my lap. How you gonna fuck up the most famous line Jaime, really? I mean, seriously, like, how are you gonna give it that I’m gonna pump it up like that. And then fuck it up. But Mary Sierra-Cordes, I am so excited to have you on the podcast. So I want to just give people listeners some background. So I am very comfortable saying I’m 45, Mary is 53. And we met, let’s just say it’s been 12 years, we’ll go with that. Anyway, the entire length of our friendship, it has been a long distance relationship. We’ve never lived in the same state. So before we get to that, I want to talk about friendship in general, like making friends, I think in our industry, because we both work in entertainment. We meet a lot of people and we work in a business where it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. So everybody’s pretty cool in the gang with everybody, right? Because like, but there was something about us when we met, that we knew immediately it was not going to be a casual. Like, oh, if I need something from that girl, I’ll link up with her.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  01:59

I felt like it happened over the phone before we met in person. I remember having initial conversations with you. And it was cool. And it was you know, we were like very, I felt like we were similar in the sense that we were both trying to get things done. And we had a lot on our plate. But we were definitely going to be cordial and cool and friendly. And, and our clients were cool and friendly. But there was a little vibe. There was a vibe. It was like cool, she gets it. I don’t have to explain myself; you know what, which actually became a big foundation of, you know, our friendship, that kind of understanding that we have. And then we met in person at the BB kings event. Yeah. And that was a perfect setting for us to meet. Because it was just a whole bunch of tomfoolery and shenanigans. And I’m down to clown and I want to laugh and have a good time. And the, that’s where we collect our ability to laugh at ourselves, our ability to laugh at our clients, with our clients, whatever, just like nothing was like off the table. Like we could just laugh, we will just let you know, we connect, I felt like that’s where we really connected.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  03:07

So Mary and I established very early on some co-dependent friendship behaviors that I think have served a decade plus long distance friendship, because when you meet somebody and you know, it’s kind of like a romantic relationship, you meet someone and you go like, okay, I could smash, but also I think there could be something here, you know, like, I could actually date this person. So obviously, I didn’t mean Mary and big, I get smashed, blah, blah, blah. But I did meet her and think there’s something here, this could be a real friendship. And so you start to establish friendship behaviors. And one of the friendship behaviors that Mary and I have is we FaceTime unannounced and that is like, a big deal. Because a lot of people, Jaxon’s nodding, do you FaceTime people unannounced?

Jaxon  04:04

My brother.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  04:07

I don’t FaceTime with a lot of people at all. It’s like my daughter, because she’s in LA, you know, like, I don’t, even Doug and I don’t FaceTime a lot, but like.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  04:14

But yeah, we just started Face Timing so Jaxon was saying he only FaceTime his brother unannounced right, like, Mary and I started Face Timing just like, I get in the car and FaceTime her and be like, Oh my god, I got to tell you, whatever. And we became very accustom to that level of intimacy in the friendship and sort of that level..

Mary Sierra-Cordes  04:42

It a heavy comfortability. Yeah, absolutely.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  04:45

And then, you know, long distance relationships require a little bit of.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  04:54

A lot of bit of effort. No, there’s a lot of effort that has to go into them. But I think that other thing that was kind of a call and just completely coincidental. I’m meeting you with your client. You’re meeting with mine; we meet in Manhattan. But I’m living in Howald for 25 years, which is right next door to where you grew up.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  05:17

And I’m from Brooklyn and born and raised in New York. So it was like wait, Freehold I was just in Freehold and then that was a thing. I’m like, Freehold what, Freehold this. I know that it’s like, you know, so that was also a cool thing. And I think that bred a little comfortability as well, because I understood, you know, Freehold’s your jam, right? You know?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  05:38

It is my jam. There are five types of friends. Mary, I want to ask you a little, we’re gonna play a little friend game.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  05:45

Oh my god, I’m spinning the wheel. Let’s go.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  05:47

Okay, here we go. So there are five types of friends. And I want you to say, yes, you have that kind of friend in your life. No, you don’t. And then at the end, you tell me which one I am. Oh my gosh, the first kind of friend is the best friend. This is that one friend who you know, no matter what will be there for you. For the rest of your life, you’ve been through so many experiences together, you know, all of each other’s secrets, you feel like family. This is somebody who knows every detail to the extent that you can finish each other’s sentences, although that’s a super fucking annoying habit. So don’t do it. And these friendships can be rough, because you go through the bad as well as the good together. And a lot of times you take on that person’s emotional, mental physical ailment. And so it does, the best friend can be very taxing. Okay. So that’s the first kind. Number 2, the listener. This is the friend you go to when you have a lot on your mind, and you need someone who you know is going to listen and just listen. Most of the time, we need someone who will listen with an open ear and without passing judgment. The third one is the fun one. This is the friend that you call up when you just want to let your hair down and have a good time, they’re full of energy always up for a laugh. You don’t share your deepest secrets with this person, but you can trust them to always find the best fun in town. Number four, is the loyal coworker. This is the friend you actually spend more time with than any of your other friends. You wouldn’t have necessarily chosen to be their friend if you didn’t work together. But you’re happy that work brought you together. And the wise one, this is the friend you go to when you are seeking advice or life direction. They are the kind of person who has lived a rich and interesting and full life of travel and adventure and are happy to share their experiences with others. They may be a little older, maybe a little wiser. This is the kind of friend who knows how to listen and just the right thing to say at the right time. So I am curious, if you recognize those types of friends in the people that you surround yourself with?

Mary Sierra-Cordes  08:08

Absolutely do. Before you just gave me the breakdown and told me there were so many types, I was like, you’re gonna be all of them. Because you’re actually a little bit of a lot of them. You’re definitely number one. And I also think you’re number three, the fun one. You’re number one and you’re number three. And but you started off as the last one. As the coworker, you’re also the listener see that’s the thing. I also you also listen, you’re also you know, but you’re mostly one in three, but you’re also two and four. How about that? I mean, I’m trying to really I can’t just say it’s just one thing. There’s just so many dimensions and there’s you know, it’s kind of complicated. It’s just funny that you even asked that.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  09:02

Well, I was thinking about it. And I would say honestly, I don’t have a better listener in my life than you. I really don’t. I don’t have anybody that I could go to happy, mad, sad, fearful, frustrated, utterly exhausted than you and because you’ve been that person for me for so long. You know all the backstory to every character in my life. So if I call you and I say oh my god will did this. I don’t have to explain who they are. Oh this person that, my sister this my mother that, because you’ve been the listener from day one. You’ve been collecting stories for so long that like I can jump right in into the problem right now.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  10:02

You’ll be like, okay, so Susan called. And I’m like, here we go.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  10:05

Yeah, you already know. And that I don’t really have that with because also, what makes our friendship so unique is you’re the only friend I have. That is business and personal.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  10:22

Yeah, that’s what I was saying with you, too. Like, that’s an you know, and that’s actually where we like we started, we started because and then we became friends that became best friends that feel like family. And then we weren’t working together. But we still did […]. And then we rolled together. And that was another thing. That’s another dimension of our projects where I was about to go. So, then that which is a big favorite part of mine, but all of that, all of those things.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  10:59

That’s so unique to me, because, you know, everybody who watches Cawfee Talk or follows me on social media or listens to this podcast knows who Courtney is, because Courtney is my oldest friend. We’ve been friends for 32 years. But Courtney knows nothing about my professional life. Right? If I say Wayne, she’s like Newton, if I say Will, she’s like Chamberlain, if I say Steven, she’s like Dorf I’m like what? You know, no matter you know, universal, she’s like health care, like nothing. Nothing makes sense

Mary Sierra-Cordes  11:42

She’s like amalgamated steel.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  11:46

Exactly. She doesn’t have, it’s not a, it’s not. The friendship is nostalgic, and historical, but it isn’t professional in any way. And that’s what you were you and I have been so unique, but where we have been so blessed is our combined careers have afforded us so much travel together. And if we don’t tell the people about your dress, getting stuck in the escalator, because that shit was fucking great.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  12:23

But you know what’s really funny? I would normally not be so enamored with my new best friend. Like the fact that I adore you even though you pointed and laughed and took pictures while I was trapped in an escalator. Normally, I’d be like, you know what, this chick isn’t for me. You’re not helping me. You’re not getting security. Like I’m stuck in the escalator. My dress is I’m Hello McFly. I’m stuck. I turned around and you know what this one’s doing? She’s pointing and laughing and taking pictures.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  12:54

I got to tell this story because Jaxon..

Mary Sierra-Cordes  12:59

I would be pissed, normally I would be pissed  but you actually made me laugh at it.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  13:05

I need to give listeners; I need to give them a visual. Okay, listen, Mary and I are in New Orleans New Orleans for essence fest? No?

Mary Sierra-Cordes  13:17

We were there for that big concert. And I had all the women in hip hop filming that TV thing and Doug was […]

Jaime Primak Sullivan  13:26

It was like to brat. All them. You can’t play with my Yo-Yo, don’t try to play me out. So, Mary, so Mary’s wearing this beautiful sundress. And Mary has this saying whenever someone says flip flops like summer flip flops. She says bitches be flipping and flopping.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  13:51

That’s because I tripped several times around you and we like, that’s where flipping and flopping came flipping and flopping bitches be flip flopping all over the place. And it’s the fact so who does flip flopped? I wasn’t.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  14:07

Sure. But anyway, she was wearing this beautiful red sundress. And I am coming down the escalator. It’s a maxi dress down to the floor. And the maxi dress gets stuck.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  14:30

That was horrible. I’m like I’m trying to get off the escalator and I think somebody’s like; you know, it feels like somebody’s pulling the back of your jacket.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  14:42

Get stuck in the escalator and Mary just trying to get off of it. Oh my God, she’s pulling on the dress and getting her eyes are getting wider as she’s reaching that of the escalator. And she’s pulling frantically as if she’s going to be sucked into the escalator.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  15:17

Every kid was like that. That escalator’s going to eat me.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  15:21

And she turns to look at me for moral support, and I’m fuckin dead. I’m cracking up. I can’t stand up. I’m trying to hold in the pee. I’m trying to take a selfie a picture. And she’s like, you fucking bitch..

Mary Sierra-Cordes  15:44

I was Vincent. We had to get security, they had, and then I made them pay for that dress.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  16:12

Mary said, get me the manager. You’re paying for my dress. She got her money back. She got her money back.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  16:36

Okay, so another way to make and maintain adult friendships is to find somebody. I guess we for everybody, everybody, but I can speak for most. We all have kids. We’re all on a budget, getting away from our lives. And actually like leaving our families behind takes real effort. We’re not 25 anymore, like living Single, just hitting the road. So if you are going to make and maintain adult friendships, you’ve got to find people that are like minded that because look, you don’t want to be the chick on a budget. Again, you don’t want to be the chick on a budget who’s hanging out with the Paris Hilton’s of the world who were always like, let’s go to Ibiza. You’re like, bitch, I can barely go to the Walmart. Okay, this friendship ain’t gonna work.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  17:20

I’m in the Target parking lot. Can I call you back? Like, seriously? Can I call you back? I’m trying to load. It was a big sale today.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  17:28

So Mary and I, when we met, we both had children. You know, I had babies, she had elementary school children. And so we were at this in the same stage of our life. And we had so many common interests that like, okay, we’re both love live music. So if we’re gonna leave our families to go to concerts and travel and go to Vegas, and New Orleans and Atlanta, for essence fest, and BET awards, and all these things.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  17:55

But it was also always work. So it was great. Wasn’t just like it, you know, it was like, I happen to be working this, you might happen to be working it. So it wasn’t like we were constantly taking bloody time. We built it. We built it in. That’s how we were blessed. Oh, you’re working the honors? Oh, BET awards, What are we doing? Let’s share, we’re sharing a room now we get to hang out for three days, like this is fun, meet you in the airport, we’re flying together. And honestly, not everybody can do that. You’re like, I can’t travel with any just anyone. You can’t share a room with even some of my closest friends. We’d want to kill each other.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  18:35

By the way. I remember. Like, how you know, you have a friendship that is truly worth maintaining is nobody watches my back. Like Mary. There’s one very specific trip in particular, and there have been dozens of trips together. Okay, so I went to host an event in Miami with for Keurig. And it was me and Jamie Foxx and Timberland. And we host this event, we dance we have a great, great time. Anyway, Mary and I we stay in this beautiful room together. We have a wonderful time. And I get a call I the next morning, I get a call from my mother at like 6AM and she says Jaime, I’m calling to let you know that grandma died. And I’m like what? And she’s like she died last night in her sleep. And you know she died last night. And Mary, I don’t remember packing. I don’t remember going to the airport. She took care of everything. I cried on her shoulder. The whole time in the airport we got on the plane. I cried on the plane and Mary told the flight attendant that my grandmother died and they brought us champagne and we drank.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  20:05

Yeah, I remember just sitting there and making cocktails and handing you tissues. And it was you know, and I remember when, you know, before she passed, I used to call you, J. Mala. And you would like my grandmother calls me J. Mala and that was her, just what naturally, that was just what naturally. That was its weekends. But at the same time, we had so much fun prior to that, and I felt for you. And I mean, it’s what friends do. I mean, you loved and we’re, you know, it’s your grandma, you were close with your grandma and that’s just what we do, Jaime.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  20:39

Mary has my back in every way, shape, and form. So there are very few people. She’s the only person truthfully, in my life, the only one and I got a lot of people in my life. She’s the only person in my life where I could call her and say, what is leaking at the house in Manasquan, I need you to go check it, boom. Olivia needs whatever done, boom. Michael and I have to go away. Can you come stay with the kids for a week, done, boom. I’m crying because my sister and I aren’t speaking up about can you listen, boom, done. My grandmother died, we got to get to the airport, I can’t pack my shit. I’m too sad, done, boom. Like just like dude is looking at me. And feeling away and having a thought. And bla, bla, bla, mary catches it. She peeps that she’s got it, she’s breaking it down, done, boom. She knows what I like, she walks by craft service, grab some dried mango, and a protein bar, boom, this is what my girl eats like, a there’s never a time where she doesn’t have my back. She has my front and my back.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  21:52

Life is going to keep lifing us. And I’m going to keep friending, like we keep friending and we’re like, it’s not even a thing. It’s like, if we’re walking and you drop something on the floor, if I dropped something, and I didn’t see it, you’re not going to pick it up for me?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  22:07

Well, you’re a better friend to me than I am to you. You are because first of all, some of it is that our children are at different stages. And your children are adults.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  22:18

I think that’s been an advantage, you know, a little bit of an advantage as well. Because if you know, mine were going when they were in middle school, when I’m pretty sure they were middle school. And it’s cool. Like, I just got finished dealing with middle school and my kids are going into high school and your kids are getting finished with elementary school and going into middle school. You know what I mean? Like it was, I felt like it works as if I had really little ones. And you had little really, really little ones. Maybe we wouldn’t have had as much time, And I hope that I you know, I can offer perspective, from time to time having raised you have two girls and a boy and I have two boys and a girl. But minor, you know, considerably older. But you could say to me like did Christian ever go through blah, blah, blah and middle school? Or did Brandon ever ordered me and I’ll be like, let me tell you a story. Because you know, whatever. And obviously, all kids are different, but they all kind of go through a lot of the same stuff. So I thought that worked to our advantage. You know, that’s what I believe.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  23:29

I put on Twitter. What questions would you want to ask people who have maintained French of friendship for decades. And one woman said, Lauren said do you go long periods of time without seeing each other? And if you do, how do you weather it? And we do have to go long periods of time because I live in Birmingham, Alabama, and you live in New Jersey. But the beautiful thing is, I have now a summer home in New Jersey. And I get to come home more often than I did the first 10 years of our friendship.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  24:13

But we’re also lucky that we live in the time where we have this. And we have FaceTime. And yeah, and you know, and honestly, you got me into it, because I’m not I was never I didn’t want to FaceTime with people. You know, I’m thankful for it. And then you know, I’ll hop on a plane and come see you. You’d hop on a plane and come home to Jersey. I’m going to LA. I need to be in LA perfect. What are your dates? Let’s line it up. How busy are you doesn’t matter. We’ll share a room. Let’s like, we’ll get coffee. We’ll go do you do your meetings; I do my meetings and then we’ll link up and that was great.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  25:09

Where could I improve as a friend? Like, honestly, where could I am in this friendship particularly not as me, not me as a friend as a whole, but like, friending you at the stage of life you’re in now, what is one thing if you were filling out my evaluation? How could I? Where could I improve as a friend? Be honest.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  25:37

I don’t know. I think maybe for me, but it’s like this, it’s like two sides to it. I was going to say maybe listen more. But I also have to be more forthcoming about the things that I would actually want you listen about, so, both of us could be better at that. Because the stuff that’s really important, well, I’ve done a lot of work over the last couple of years.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  26:06

We are gonna get one part of that, is next.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  26:10

Okay, so I just feel like, you know, I couldn’t talk about a lot of the things that were eating me for a really long time, I think you could be a little bit more of a better listener for me. But at the same time, I take a little responsibility in that as far as saying, hey, I really want to talk to you about something important that’s on my heart or whatever. Because that’s not my jam. I’m not that person. I keep shitting myself. But I also learned that hasn’t served me well over the last few years. While I was doing well myself work. So yeah, listening.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  26:43

Okay. So that’s a great one. And I will say that, in the beginning of our friendship, you would start a sentiment about your late husband, who was alive at the time, or your parents, or even your late brother, or whatever it was, and you would cut yourself off, you would start to talk about it, then you would cut yourself off and be like, you know what, all right. We’ll talk about that later. And I would try to push. What happened was, I realized, the pushing didn’t really work combining with me being lazy. So, it got to the point around the middle of our friendship when you would bring up b or something. And I would be like, well, tell me what they said, like what’s going on? You’d be like, oh, you know why it’s so much. And I would be like, alright.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  27:43

Honestly, yeah. And that, like I said, but that has to do, like I just said, it’s like, I want you to listen, but I also need to be forthcoming. But it’s things that I couldn’t really even talk about, because I felt myself and knowing you and not saying that this is anything bad about you, or something that you’re lacking, but like, if I start crying when I’m talking, you’re like, this isn’t gonna work this conversation or not that it’s not going to work. But, not even you per se, I felt that I felt like I was Debbie Downer if I went there. And I didn’t want to become the Debbie Downer. I didn’t want to be sad sack Sally all the time. But I felt like sad sack Sally, because I had all this sad shit happening or said shit that had already happened, that I didn’t deal with. And I just kept rolling and pushing and going. And it was compounding in the background. And then you’re like my new friend and my fun friends. And like, I bet you’re also my confidant on such a deep level like that. I want to go there. But then I didn’t want to spoil all the other stuff. You know what I mean? So but then what started happening with me and it wasn’t even just with you, per se. But I started to and I only just realized this. I mean, I knew it, but you know things and you just bury them. I was in quicksand. I was in resentment quicksand. So like, I started becoming resentful of why is all this shit happening? Why do I lose this man? Why do I lose that man? It’s like my dad, my brother and my husband. I’m losing all these people in my life. And I’m and I feel like I’m holding everyone down. Like, Well, what about me? I started to feel like I was going through a lot. In the middle of our friendship. I was struggling with my spirituality. I was mad at God. So I’m mad at God and you’re getting closer to God. And I’m upset about stuff and I’m not talking about it because it was so much it would crushed me, if anytime I opened my mouth. I was like, I was gonna cry. So I just kept burying all that shit. And if you don’t deal with resentment, it becomes bigger. It’s like quicksand. You get stuck everything like you start to you know, it’s like, if I didn’t deal with it, it would have got to the point where I was resentful for having resentment like everything was just compounding and come out. So I had to stop everything and then you also know it was affecting my health, it affect I was becoming depressed I put on all this weight. Like all this stuff was happening before COVID like after be and you are great. You’re there for me. But like, I wouldn’t even let you like be completely there for me because I was afraid of all the ugliness scaring everyone away.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  30:33

It was not your situations. That became difficult for me in the friendship, meaning it was never that your ex-husband was dying. It was never, you know, any, like it wasn’t the situations that you were managing. Where it became difficult for us was the way that you started dealing with those things because it changed who you want it to be as a friend to me.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  31:02

I like to be the strong person for all my people. And I wasn’t so I needed to hide.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  31:10

And you did that, you put that on you because I never needed you.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  31:14

But that’s on the real I’m just telling you the truth.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  31:17

I want you guys to understand that there was a period in Mary and I’s friendship, where we were both going through so much shit. Okay, and we were doing the best we could to show up for each other. Some days. It was when I tell you the bare minimum. It was fluff on both of our parts. It was just touchpoint okay, You good? Good. You good? Good. Nobody was really fucking good. But we were just saying it good. We were it was in and out. Right. But Mary, I have to say, the sad to get to the glad Mary and I need to get you up on this. Mary put on. I don’t know how much and how much she took off. I don’t know how much you put on. She put on a lot of weight.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  31:18

Like 80 pounds, 70 to 80 pounds.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  32:16

She was drinking all the time. She was abusing her body with food and alcohol to numb herself to go to sleep to wake like everything was using something to do something else. And it became a cycle.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  32:35

I couldn’t go to sleep if I didn’t have a drink. I couldn’t have a drink without having to smoke. Like it was just you know, and then you know, and eating garbage.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  32:47

And by the way, all of the signs of sadness and depression were there. And if you, I remember when you were like, I remember Facetiming you and you were like, I got my water. I’m not smoking. I haven’t had a drink in three days. I was like, wait, what? Like you started it without telling me I guess to see like if you could do it.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  33:17

I was just I knew I was gonna I had no choice at that point. I like bought, I felt like I bought was bottoming out like I’m I didn’t feel well my back hurt my knees hurt. And already had a cyst surgery that affected me. I was told I needed another one. And I was like, I don’t want another one. What can I do, I was like everything. Everything was like it was just I had no choice but to do everything. I had to go completely cold turkey on all that shit.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  33:46

So anyway, one day I FaceTime her, she’s got a gallon of water at her desk an actual gallon, like the one you buy from the store. And she says to me, I’m not smoking, I’m going on a diet, and I stopped drinking three days ago. Now, here’s the thing, somebody’s got one thing they got to work on. You’re like, okay, and you try to be their champion. But when somebody looks you in the face and says, I’m doing a complete overhaul of my life, I’m doing it without professional help. I don’t want to be this person anymore. I want to go out, I want to have a kick ass summer. I deserve it. My children are older now. And I deserve to live because Mary had been taking care of her ex-husband for years when he was sick. And the changes that you have made to your life, the way like I can see the healthiness in the way that you parent, in the way that you friend in the way that you love.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  34:44

I appreciate that. I’m definitely trying to be the best version of myself. I mean, I acknowledge that. You know, I was stuck. I was really stuck. I was paralyzed in pain and trying to keep it moving and not acknowledging and it was just spill laying out into all these disgusting behaviors. And I had to stop that shit. So I really appreciate you acknowledging that because that was a complete conscious effort, changing everything coupled with finally letting go of the mycelium that I was living in that was my home of 25 years that I was afraid of the huge undertaking. So all of the things we did, I did all the things that I could do, you know, like, chop off five inches of your hair, lose a million pounds, completely change your habits, you know, throw out 25 years’ worth of shit that you hoarded and start over.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  35:38

And you did, and this second half of your life is going to be aside from the obviously the birth of your children and all those things, right? That goes without saying, but I believe the second half of your life is going to be the most joyful.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  35:55

I appreciate that. I choose to be happy every day. Regardless. All the stuff, tit’s all perks, that’s all gravy, that’s all extra because I choose to be happy regardless, I’m going to sing, I’m going to dance. I’m gonna, you know, I’m gonna laugh. You know, if the tire goes flat. We’re going to fix the tire. We’re not going to cry about it. We’re not going to bitch we’re not going to stretch like I don’t have time. I just want peace. Peace is the new bag.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  36:32

Let me chase peace.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  36:36

I just want peace. I want you know, and I’m not. I’m not trying to diss anyone or shit on anybody else’s friendships or anything. But if you’re not, if you’re not interested in peace, I just can’t, I don’t have time in my life for that you’re about choosing happiness, you’re about peace. You’re about family. And that’s where we line up, we will line up there all the time. Because nobody got time for all that other stuff.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  37:07

But we went through all of these things together, and but also so many joyful things, I want people to understand that the last decade was hard. But it was also joyful. And kids graduating from high school, and Christian, you know, getting his dream job. And just, you know..

Mary Sierra-Cordes  37:30

Everybody just seeing everyone be, you know, productive and watch them soar and watch your kids excel and watch them come into their own and us be able to talk about that stuff. And then there’s you. And then there’s you, I’m going to talk about you for a minute, because you will control the conversation people because this one, if I let her she’ll just keep going now I gotta say my piece. Out of all the people that I’ve met, and all of the women that I’m friends with, and all of the different creative clients that I’ve worked with, I’ve never met anyone who inspired me, and I’ve never met some in the way that you do. And this isn’t gas, because you get on my nerves as well. Like, I’m not gonna we just covered that, like, you know, it’s not all roses all the time. And I probably annoy the shit out of you all the many times as well. But I’ve never had anyone in my life that always, that also challenged me. And I grew with you like we grew and you’re very inspiring, like professionally, spiritually. This is like I’ve seen people achieve things that you’ve done in the past 10 years that took them 25 years, or they’re still working on it. But like you went, and I respect that, like, all the way in, you know, I respect it. I admire it, and I’m proud of you. So I just want to say that because there’s not many people there. I mean, I can’t really think of who else is like that in my life. You know?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  39:09

Well, I just you know, if you’re listening to this podcast, and you’re wondering, what are some of the things that Jaime and Mary did in looking to make and maintain a 12 plus your friendship as adult in the middle of mommyhood. When you meet somebody, if you feel a spark, just like in romantic relationships. If you feel a spark, don’t wait. Act on it. Ask that person to lunch, ask if you can have their email ask if they want to go for a walk, ask if they want coffee. Look, let me tell you every woman is either a walk, a wine, or a coffee. She may not drink coffee, but she drinks wine if she don’t drink wine, she goes for a fucking walk. If she don’t do any of the three. Yo, I’m telling you now. I don’t know. I don’t know what to do with that chick I’m probably gonna have to sleep with her, because otherwise I don’t know what to do with her. Okay? So I’m going to tell you ask a woman if you feel a spark and a woman. Let’s say you’re 35 like I was when I met Mary or 33, whatever it is, you got young kids, you’re not sure you can’t make a friend. And you meet a woman at work, in the gym, in carpool line, at Whole Foods, at the post office waiting in line to vote, I don’t know. You meet her and you feel a spark. Maybe you make a little joke. She laughs She totally gets it. She’s your kind of person, whatever it is. Say, listen, I know this is awkward. I’m middle aged. You want to go to, are you a coffee woman? Do you want to grab coffee? Maybe we can get a glass of wine. Do you want to go for a walk? I guarantee, she’s like, yes. I want to go to Bath and Bodyworks and smell 800 good smells. So that’s the first advice I would give you is act on it. If you feel the spark act on it. It’s not like men and women, where you got to wait for him to make the first move. Friendship is different. Make the first move, right?

Mary Sierra-Cordes  41:12

Invite them to stuff you’re already doing. Just be like, great. I’m gonna be there. Just come.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  41:16

And by the way, find things that you have in common outside of children. It is always nice to be able to talk to each other about the kids. But friendship, marriage, is centered around the children. Friendship doesn’t have to be like I was always there for Mary when you know, when she wasn’t needed to talk about the kids or celebrate the kids or discipline the kids and she the same for me. But our friendship doesn’t it’s not based around the kids. We have things that we both love to dance; we both break out in lyrics. We love live music; we love to travel like we go to the beach. And by the way, our friendship is not based around alcohol either because you don’t drink anymore, and we still hang out all the time. That’s anyway. So find stuff you love to do and make the friendship a priority. If you’re not the kind of person keep it real 100% Listen, I’m not the talk on the phone kind of person I prefer to text. Okay, bet. Well, I need to talk on the phone. Okay, well, I can do that once or twice a week. Okay, great. Compromise, and whatever. And I’m telling you friendships that they say sex in your 40s is the best and it is, but so is friendship. That’s how I feel. You could put that on a meme. You could take it to the bank. Sex in your 40s is the best but so is friendship. Because you’re brave enough at this point to tell people who is not working. This ain’t working

Mary Sierra-Cordes  42:41

Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  42:42

Anybody got flipping and flopping? Obviously I’m getting the escalator. Yeah, get off this escalator.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  42:49

There you go. Like for real?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  42:52

So funny. So funny. Anyway, I love you, Mary for having this conversation with me.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  42:57

I love you. And I’m happy to have the conversation.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  43:01

And I’m so grateful for you.

Mary Sierra-Cordes  43:03

I’m so grateful for you and for us. Absolutely. We’re fun.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  43:10

Yeah, we are. We’re fucking fun people if you guys want to be our friends, sign up. We’re fun. We really are. We’re great.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  43:20

Let’s Tawk is a Lemonada Media Original. Our producer is Xorje Olivares and Dani Matias. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Jamie Primak Sullivan. Mix and scoring is by Brian Castillo. Music is by Dan Molad. Please help others find the show by rating and reviewing wherever you listen. Catch my series Cawfee Tawk on the Jaime Primak Sullivan Facebook page. I’m also on Twitter at @JaimePrimak, and on Instagram at @JaimePSullivan. And follow at @LemonadaMedia across all social platforms. If you want more Let’s Tawk, visit Lemonada Premium only on Apple podcasts.

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