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After Losing Her Home, Ricki Revisits Wildfire Episode

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When Ricki interviewed wildfire expert Dr. Emily Fischer last fall, she had no idea that her own Malibu home would burn down from the Palisades Fire just four months later. In this throwback episode with newfound meaning, Dr. Fischer explains why wildfires are becoming more destructive and the ways that moms can demystify climate change in order to change our future for the better.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Stephanie Barron Hall, Ricki Lake

Ricki Lake  00:02

This is The High Life with me, Ricki Lake, where we find out how my guests crack the code to living a full and vibrant life. So you can too. Now there are so many quizzes and tests out there that are meant to help us understand who we are. There’s Myers Briggs, there’s Zodiac Signs, there’s Gene Keys, all of these kinds of personality tests seem to be getting more and more popular, but there’s one that I keep hearing about, and this is the Enneagram test I still don’t fully understand. I’m really very much a newbie, and I’m not sure what the big deal is, but I’m so excited to talk to today’s guest, an Enneagram expert and the author of the new book, Enneagram in real life. Stephanie Barron Hall, Stephanie, has done Enneagram work with 1000s of individuals and dozens of companies to better understand how to communicate effectively. And there’s no better time like the new year to dive deep into ourselves and to better understand how we communicate with others. Ah, Stephanie, it’s great to have you here.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  00:59

Hello.

 

Ricki Lake  01:00

Thank you so much for doing this.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  01:02

Thanks so much for having me. I’m happy to be here.

 

Ricki Lake  01:04

I feel like this is opening up a new obsession for me.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  01:09

Great.

 

Ricki Lake  01:10

I’m gonna start with my first opening question. I ask everyone, where are you getting your highs from right now? What is bringing you joy lately? Can be anything.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  01:20

To be honest, I’ve been watching Grey’s Anatomy, and I watched it earlier this year for the first time. So I just re watching, and it’s just a little delight, you know?

 

Ricki Lake  01:31

Yeah, it’s a guilt. It’s like, not even a guilty pleasure. I was gonna say guilty pleasure, no, but it’s like, That’s old school. That’s like, what, 20 years ago, yes. So I don’t know if you know anything about me, Stephanie, but do you have a sense of what number I am?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  01:44

No, I have, like, maybe an inkling, but we’ll keep working on it.

 

Ricki Lake  01:49

Okay, so explain to those of us that are brand new to this, like me, what exactly is the Enneagram?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  01:56

So the Enneagram is a motivation based personality framework oriented around nine core types, and I say personality, because that’s like our closest approximation, but really it’s a tool that we can use for inner work and self development and also relational development as well. So it’s not as much telling you, you know, these external descriptors, though, there are a lot of those in the books, because that’s what we can kind of measure externally. But what really defines the Enneagram types is actually the core motivation, or that core driving by that’s beneath the surface.

 

Ricki Lake  02:32

And who developed this? Where did this come from?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  02:35

Okay, so there are traces of a similar typology kind of thing in, like, third and fourth century Christian mystics in Egypt. But what we know today as the Enneagram of personality was really developed by a man named Oscar chazo. So Oscar chazo really kind of developed, like the typologies or the archetypes.

 

Ricki Lake  02:58

Okay, when was Oscar around? Like, at what point did he develop this?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  03:01

So more so, like about 100 years ago, and then in the 1950s he was developing it further. And he started having these groups where people, especially people from the United States, would come and learn from him in these small groups. And so some of those folks, including Claudio Naranjo, who is another of the kind of fathers of the Enneagram, they brought it back to the United States. He was a he was actually born in South America, but he was a psychiatrist working at UC Berkeley, and he developed it further, and it kind of grew from there.

 

Ricki Lake  03:38

So what got you into it? You you have a background in psychology, correct?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  03:42

Yeah, so I have always been fascinated by personality, everything. And so even when I was a kid, I would read these little books, and I’d be like, you know, what does this say about me? What does my favorite color say about me, or my favorite ice cream, you know? And so I studied psychology in undergrad, and I thought, hmm, you know, there has to be something to this thought process of using personality systems in the workplace for team development. And so I actually worked at a company that did that. I was a manager there, and I just saw how impactful that was. But it wasn’t the Enneagram.

 

Ricki Lake  04:19

What was the test you were using if it wasn’t this.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  04:21

So it’s called Total SDI, and so it’s actually more workplace based, but what it has in common with the Enneagram is that it’s motivation based. And that got me really turned on to this motivation based piece, because I had used disc and Myers Briggs and these other systems and tests, which all have their place. But I really loved this motivation piece because it helps me translate my learnings from the workplace into my personal life and vice versa.

 

Ricki Lake  04:49

So was there something that happened specifically to you that caused you to go in this direction of studying the anagram system?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  04:56

So actually, my husband and my older sister were like. You have to get into the Enneagram. I brushed them off, but eventually I did, and they were so right, the first thing that really caught my attention was the emphasis on our shadow side, or the emphasis on what is not so good about us. I have always had this lifelong inner critic. And so when I would take other assessments, maybe strength spider, and it’s like, you’re great at all these things, I’d be like, Come on, tell me what I’m not good at. That’s where I can actually grow. So one of the things that showed me was that I’m not very in touch with my emotions. And that surprised me, because I had always been told, oh, you’re so sensitive. But being sensitive because you’ve bottled everything up, and then somebody does the wrong thing and you blow up because you can’t bottle it up anymore. That is different than being in touch with your emotions in a more healthy way. And so I had this experience where shortly after I learned the Enneagram, I was driving to work, and I noticed myself, like, turning up the radio. And I was like, why am I doing that? Like I reached for the knob. I was turning it up, and I thought, I don’t even want to listen to this. I’m not interested in what’s happening on NPR right now, what is happening. And I noticed, okay, I have, like, an icky feeling, ickiness. What is that? And, you know, I had plenty of time to just kind of think and ponder and explore. And what I found by the time I got to work was okay, I was having some anxiety, like, that’s I was having some emotions bubble up, and I really was not comfortable with that. And it made me realize, oh, like that thing that the Enneagram said about threes having a hard time connecting with their emotions is true. And what I’ve been doing is turning up the radio or turning up my calendar or turning up, you know, my work ethic, whatever else I could do to avoid the feelings. And so it helps me to pay more attention to that.

 

Ricki Lake  06:59

And what number are you? What number did you say you were?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  07:02

Type three.

 

Ricki Lake  07:02

So do your behavior change because of that realization from you doing the Enneagram and looking at that characteristic?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  07:09

Yeah, it helps me to see it. I had never seen that shadow.

 

Ricki Lake  07:13

Wow, amazing. So, of all things in psychology to study, you go and specialize in Enneagram, it must mean it’s pretty powerful. Why did you go into this, this area?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  07:25

I think I saw the impact it was having in my life. And, you know, I was so curious about it, and once I started researching and studying about it, I actually kind of on a whim, thought I want to start something new. I want to start a new business. So I actually created coffee mugs for each of the Enneagram types. That’s how I started my Instagram. And I sold them. They were like, very giftable little Christmas, you know, holiday things. And about a year later, I started posting about the types themselves. And so I saw, not only is this helpful for me, but once I wrote about the types on Instagram, other people kept saying, Oh, this makes so much sense to me. So then I started teaching in corporate and team settings and to just to see people say, Wow, I never understood why I did that. And see, like, kind of the lights come on, a little bit that was just so interesting to me, to be able to, like, deliver some piece of information that helps somebody understand themselves or their partner or their coworker.

 

Ricki Lake  08:25

It must be so rewarding.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  08:27

It is, and sometimes I can be a skeptic. I’m like, Is this really a thing? Come on. But then I go in these sessions, and somebody says, You know what? I cannot believe how accurate this is. And it works. It like still works. And I love that we have these different tools that act as those mirrors that show us something about ourselves that we wouldn’t have been able to see otherwise.

 

Ricki Lake  08:52

Right? Amazing. Okay, so let’s talk about I took the test and we found out that I’m a seven. Explain how many numbers there are and what they all mean?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  09:04

Sure, so I can run through each of the types quickly. Okay? And there are nine different types. We all will resonate a bit with each of them. I think it’s helpful for people to think of really their motivation, not their behavior. So don’t think, Oh, I’m a perfectionist, so I must be this type, we all have some of those tendencies. And then look at when you were 20 to 25 that’s when your type was most clear.

 

Ricki Lake  09:29

Okay, so what are so type one is what?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  09:33

They are motivated by? This need to be good, right and correct, and not to be good at things, but to be a good, moral, ethical person according to their values. So they really though have like these, all these structures and systems that they have to keep themselves in line, because they’re afraid if they go outside of those, that they will become corrupt or bad.

 

Ricki Lake  09:56

Now that could apply. My husband grew up Mormon, very devout, really. Religious, you know, system, for lack of a better word, and so he was very much toed the line rule follower. Didn’t question things until later he got out of the church. Would that? Would that make sense for a lot of people in that kind of world?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  10:14

Yeah. And I think what we have to look at is, why are they doing that? Because some people might be doing that for type two reasons or type three reasons. So for example, type twos are motivated by a need to be loved and wanted and needed, and they really are motivated to create good, positive relational rapport, whereas ones are more motivated about being appropriate and doing the right thing.

 

Ricki Lake  10:39

So okay, what’s number three?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  10:40

So threes are motivated by a need to be successful and admirable. They really want to impress other people, and they want other people to be impressed with them. So they kind of shift who they are depending on who they’re with, so that they can connect with that person, and then they can also kind of show up in the way that they think will get them the most admiration in any room.

 

Ricki Lake  11:02

Okay, that’s so that’s so me. I feel like I’m every single number.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  11:06

I think that’s really common, especially for sevens.

 

Ricki Lake  11:11

Is that true? I’m such a seven. That’s okay, what’s four?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  11:16

So fours are motivated by a need to find and express their truest, most authentic identity. So they are very emotional. They’re very much plumbing the depths of their psyche to get to know more and to understand more beneath the surface. Well, then we have fives who are really similar to fours in the sense of being really internal and observant, but fives are more cerebral, and they’re really focused on data and objectivity, and they’re motivated by a need to be self sufficient and competent.

 

Ricki Lake  11:45

I’m so impressed of you like spewing out what? These are, these characteristics? Okay, that’s fine. Yeah, it’s amazing. And then so six, what’s six?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  11:53

Six is are motivated by a need to find certainty. And the tricky thing about certainty is, the closer they get the further away it gets right, because there’s always more that they need to know. And then once they know it, they have to plan for any contingencies and make sure that they prevent the worst case scenario from happening. And they really want security, stability and safety.

 

Ricki Lake  12:15

Got it. Okay? So number seven, that’s what I am. What is that?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  12:18

So they’re motivated by a need to find the world just full of unlimited possibilities. So they’re looking for anything could happen, like the world is my oyster. And so they really want mental stimulation. So they are always moving into the next thing and kind of finding something, some different puzzle to chew on or to process.

 

Ricki Lake  12:40

Okay, that that definitely tracks for me. I think, okay, number eight.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  12:45

Eights are motivated by a need to be against. And it’s not against to just be contrarian, but it’s against to let other people know, hey, I’m tough. I’ve got this tough exterior. You can’t control me or overtake me or push me over. But they also have this real protective streak. They protect themselves, and they protect their their close people as well. And they like conflict. Is that? Right? They just don’t mind it. They see it as necessary, as part of life.

 

Ricki Lake  13:09

Okay, and then number nine is the last one, right? There’s nine types. Okay.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  13:14

So nine are motivated by a need to be at peace, internally and externally. So they create this nice, comfortable, harmonious space for themselves, where nothing can ruffle their feathers too much, and they really like that steadiness and harmony with other people around them.

 

Ricki Lake  13:29

Right, so are any of these numbers bad per se?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  13:33

No, like we all have our negative characteristics and our positive ones, so sometimes, like people will see their type and think I really hate my type. I really wish I was something else. This is the worst type to be. But it doesn’t mean it’s bad. The Enneagram shows us blind spots that we didn’t expect to see.

 

Ricki Lake  13:53

And you have a huge following on Instagram, like, you have all these people that go to your page all the time. I’m now a follower. I’m gonna get so into it. What kind of I mean? How do you find this helpful for people that you don’t know that are just connecting with you online?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  14:08

Yeah, I think what people are gravitating toward is seeing themselves in these descriptions. Like that’s what really drew me to the Enneagram at first too. Was I read something on a page and thought, I’ve never understood this part about myself, and now it’s right there.

 

Ricki Lake  14:25

Do you remember what it was?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  14:27

Well, one thing I really didn’t like was I had recently started noticing, oh, I’m kind of a different person in different spheres of life, and I don’t really like that. I feel ashamed of that. And I felt like, oh, wow, people could see me doing this shape shifting thing, and I didn’t even realize I was doing it. So that is one of them, for sure.

 

Ricki Lake  14:47

I’m guilty of that. I actually think that is can be a really positive thing, like, because you make others feel comfortable that you write, you find common interests with that person, right?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  14:59

Well. When it becomes tricky is when you don’t know who you are and you don’t have a connection with yourself at all.

 

Ricki Lake  15:07

Let’s take a quick break, and then we’ll be right back with more with Stephanie Barron Hall.

 

Ricki Lake  15:21

So you took this test. This was your own exploration, and you realize this about yourself.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  15:26

The way that I think about the Enneagram is when we’re unaware of those dynamics or those motivations, we’re like looking through a pinhole, and so we only have a very small scope of what we can see, and we only have a very small scope of what our choices are in terms of managing or dealing with that behavior. But the more we learn about the Enneagram, the more we grow and work on ourselves in those ways. We can expand, we can kind of zoom out. So then we have different choices, different options. So now I think I’ve worked so much on being able to know and understand myself like, What do I like? What are my values? How can I live from a place that’s aligned with my values versus just doing whatever I think somebody else wants me to do?

 

Ricki Lake  16:06

Yeah, okay, so I’m trying to understand, because you say our number doesn’t change, but yet, if I look at it, like in from the mindset of me, who I was 15 years ago, like, for example, I was super avoidant of conflict. I didn’t want to make any waves. I didn’t want to, you know, I wanted everybody to be happy and keep everybody the balls in the air. And I’d see myself as like, maybe I was a different number back then. But you say we don’t change. Can you explain?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  16:30

Yeah. So my question would be, why? Why was it important for you to make sure everyone else was happy?

 

Ricki Lake  16:39

Yeah? I mean, that’s a really good question, and I’ve worked it out in therapy, but, I mean, I just cared a lot about what other people thought of me back then, and I think as I’ve gotten older and more of a sense of who I am. And you know that cliche, when you turn 50, you don’t give a shit what other people think about you. It’s none of your business what people think about you. I feel like I’ve evolved into that, but yet that doesn’t change my number.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  17:08

No, but I would also look back to, you know, those that early adulthood age and see what were those motivations? Because sometimes we have those behaviors, because maybe we’re a three and we are, like, really thinking about, how do I make sure that everyone else is impressed with me and thinks that I’m awesome? Or maybe a seven would say, I just want to make sure that everyone else is happy, so that they’re not going to be too worried about me. And I can kind of do my own thing, and I can kind of not have those limitations placed on me or a nine might think I’m gonna lose relationships if there’s any conflict here, so I have to kind of keep everything afloat, you know what I mean? So it’s looking at why we felt those things, why we did that behavior. And it might be that you have just done a lot of inner work, you’ve done a lot of therapy, you’ve done all these different things, and maybe now you exhibit more of this seven ish characteristic, but deep down, you’re actually a different type, and so you have a different thing to tackle.

 

Ricki Lake  18:10

How do we know, if we did the test right? Is there a wrong way to do it?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  18:14

I would say the wrong way to do it is to focus too much on one sphere of life. So sometimes people they’re at work, and so they take it from their work brain, but we want to think globally, like, where do I fit in all of these spheres of life? And is this piece really true? And sometimes people will think, let me take it from my 20 year old self perspective, and that might give you a different result, and it might be more enlightening that way.

 

Ricki Lake  18:43

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I’ve just like, just like, reached the surface, like I’m just delving now and I want to go back. I’m thinking of doing it with my my husband, because I feel like the way he sees me versus the way I see myself, I think I would get a totally different number. Do you recommend doing this with your partner.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  19:03

I always think it’s really useful, because what it can do is to help us understand, oh, I am seeing your motivation or your behavior through my motivation lens, so that can cause a lot of miscommunication and a lot of frustration, but instead being curious about like, Well, why are you doing it that way? Here’s why I’m doing it this way. Let’s talk about that, you know. So with my husband, for example, he took a really long time to figure out his type, and I just had to let him have that process, because it was not going to help for me to try to interject my own little professional opinion, right externally. But what it helped was I realized that we have such different perspectives on like our kind of the core motivation piece. So he’s a six, I’m type three, and those can be really great types together. And also they can cause a lot. Friction. Because, for example, in my 20s, I was like, You know what I want to do? I’m going to become a wedding florist. I’m just going to start a floral business. So I did it. And he, from his sixth point of view, was like, do you have a plan? Do you even know how to do that? Like, why do you think you can do that? And a three is like, I can do it, because I think I can do it.

 

Ricki Lake  20:22

Did you know he was a six when you were with him? Could you have guessed that that was his type?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  20:26

No, so sixes have a lot of fear and anxiety, but he doesn’t really show that externally, and a lot of men don’t. So a lot of men convey that as anger, or they just seem kind of like disconnected, but internally, there’s a lot of fear and anxiety happening. So, you know, we’ve been together for 14 years, and it was only in the past couple of years that he was like, Oh, I’m a six, you know. So that has been so interesting, because it helps me to see a different perspective and see, oh, you are experiencing all this fear, and I could be more compassionate toward that.

 

Ricki Lake  21:02

I have so many more questions, guys, but we have to take a quick break. We’ll be right back.

 

Ricki Lake  21:16

Okay, so I want to ask, how can the Enneagram system be used as a tool for self discovery and personal growth.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  21:25

I like to think of it, you know, one analogy I like to use is as a map. So instead of telling you how you are right now or what you seem like on the outside, it’s really telling you you know where you’ve come from and where you’re going. So within the Enneagram, there are all these different dynamics. So yes, like I mentioned, you know, you have one core type or one main type, but there are different dynamics, like you already mentioned, the wings, which are adjacent types to your core type that you can kind of lean into to gain more balance. Because as I went through the types, you might have noticed, well, they’re kind of all, like, a little bit extreme. The adjacent types give you more balance. So, like, for a seven, for example, they could lean in to their six wing a little bit and be like, Okay, I’m gonna actually think about what could go wrong in this situation and plan for that.

 

Ricki Lake  22:22

So are the wings close to that number?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  22:25

Yeah, they’re the next door types.

 

Ricki Lake  22:27

So it’s the ones that are actually next to it. So because my wings just so, you know, I was a wait, my highest number was G, then my second highest was h, and then F, so they are right next to each other. So that makes me a 7, 8, 6.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  22:43

Well, I think that it’s really interesting that you scored really high in eight and six too. But what I kind of see from that is that you have a lot of enthusiasm and drive, but you also really like to get things done. So eights and sixes can be a bit more pragmatic than sevens. Sevens might be a little bit more whimsical, or, like, let’s just try everything. And eights and sixes are a little bit more okay with saying, like, Okay, let’s try things that are going to be really impactful. And so they tend to be more practical. Sixes and eights both are a little bit more grounded than sevens. And okay, all three of those types are a bit contrarian. They don’t like to do all the rules necessarily. Sixes do love rules. If they make sense to them, and they will follow them, but they always like to push back. They’re a little bit suspicious. Sevens will follow the letter of the law, but not always the spirit of the law. So what does that mean? Like, for example, I heard this story where a seven was told, you have to wear shoes to school, and so he came in wearing two different shoes, and they said, that’s not what we meant. And he’s like, but it just says, I have to wear two shoes. Doesn’t have to say they have to match. Wow. So kind of like pushing back on that, that soft sense of rebellion, and then eights tend to say, well, like, if that doesn’t make sense, so we’re not doing that and just kind of pushing back. They can be mavericks and trailblazers. That doesn’t mean they’re always just trying to cause a ruckus. They’re trying to make things better and to find some truth that might be hidden otherwise.

 

Ricki Lake  24:23

So wait, let me ask you. You said you were three. What are your wings?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  24:26

So wings two and four, and I feel like I really use both of them, um, for a long time, especially when I was really active on Instagram. I think I leaned a lot into my two wing.

 

Ricki Lake  24:38

What does that mean? Why?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  24:40

Because I felt like, oh, I can’t ask people for anything in return, like I can’t ask them to buy something, because I’m giving this all away for free, and I’m being charitable. So that’s a very two way of thinking, not a very free way of thinking. But then lately, like this year. I’ve been writing a lot. I’ve been doing a lot of, you know, inner work and things like that. So I feel like I’ve been leaning more into the fore, where it’s like, more introspective, more kind of, you know, doing my own thing, and not as much being as external, or as doing as much output as I used to

 

Ricki Lake  25:17

You do coaching, like one on one with people. How does that work? And are people coming to you for a specific goal?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  25:24

Yeah, so I send out a questionnaire, and then we work on goals together. So I figure out what is happening for that person, and then we talk together about, like, what specific goals that they want to work toward, and we make a plan on how to do that. And every time they come to a session, you know, they they bring something that they want to discuss, and then I can look at it through the Enneagram lens, and I can see, oh, this is how your type is playing out in that. And like, let’s find some different ways to work with that.

 

Ricki Lake  25:53

Yeah. I mean, there’s no doubt that Enneagram has become so so popular of late. Do you have any understanding as to why it’s become so popular. I mean, let’s say, let’s give you the credit. It’s because of you.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  26:05

It’sall because of me. I think that it says something about us that we didn’t see before. So even, like earlier, I was talking about how it’s a map or even as a mirror. You know, that’s another analogy we could use of reading something about ourselves and being like, do I do that? I do that, you know, and seeing that and then being able to send that to a friend or a partner or an interest and say, This is me, you know, here’s a shortcut to knowing and understanding me. And I think especially during the pandemic, we saw so much of that, where we were at home, and we’re like, I feel like I am spinning out a little bit. I gotta understand myself. And so I just saw that a lot of those conversations happening in my comments and in my DMs throughout the pandemic, for sure.

 

Ricki Lake  26:55

As far as someone who’s starting on this journey of like wanting self discovery through this process. What do you recommend them do besides getting a hand their hands on your book?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  27:05

Yeah, I think taking an assessment is great, but then getting offline a bit and reading more about the Enneagram. It could be through a book. It could be, actually, there are some great websites. I just recommend not using social media for your like deep dive research. But reading more about each of the types, so that can be really useful. That’s something that I saw when I would do typing interviews with people, I would ask them all these questions, and then I would reflect back to them, you know, here’s what I’m noticing, here’s what the evidence suggests about your type. And they would say things like, I just feel like I’m not successful enough to be a three, or I’m not perfectionistic enough to be a one. And what I recognized was that people didn’t have a deep enough understanding of the types themselves and all the dynamics that are working together. That’s why the book is so long, you know? Because, yeah, we have all these different facets of it. So I really want people to gain a deeper understanding of the type and just learn for a while. Don’t worry about trying to explain it to somebody else. That’s advice I got early on for me, was study for at least two years before you try to teach anyone else.

 

Ricki Lake  28:16

Right, are there any dangers to this system, like thinking too much about our the type that we are and the type we’re looking for, like with dating, I would imagine there are some pitfalls.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  28:26

Yes, I think it’s really important to hold it loosely and to not weaponize it. To not say, Oh, well, you know what, Ricky, you are such a seven, and you’re just doing this thing again, and it is just getting on my last nerve. Um, that is not helpful. That does not help you and your growth path. That does not help our relationship. You know, it doesn’t help any of those things. So sometimes my husband and I, to be honest, we joke about our types and be like, oh, you’re having a big six moment right now.

 

Ricki Lake  28:56

I’ll bet does that make you mad when, when you like, when he calls you on your number?

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  29:02

no, because I’m like, Oh, you’re so right. It’s so helpful. But you have to have that, that foundational piece of understanding. We have mutual goodwill, right? And it’s not judgment, it’s like, I can see how this is hurting you. If that makes sense.

 

Ricki Lake  29:17

I’m gonna redo the test with my husband, so I have that perspective, you know, and bounce and really, really, I’m gonna delve and take the time, because I feel like I didn’t take as much time as I as I would like to. And I’m gonna reach out. I’m gonna DM you on Instagram and let you know what my number is, let me know.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  29:32

And here’s what I would say to you. And anyone listening who’s like, I call these results, and I don’t know, go read those chapters, and especially the subtypes, because if you can’t figure out which subtype resonates, so that’s in the book. It’s a technical thing. Everyone. Don’t worry about it now, but once you get the book, figure out which subtype fits best and that, that will really help.

 

Ricki Lake  29:55

Yeah, I know what I’m doing tonight, because I, you know, I always want to get. Closer to him and closer to myself, like I want to continue to grow and understand more about who I am and what makes me tick. This was an enlightening chat. Stephanie Baron Hall, thank you so much for being here today. I can’t wait for everyone to have access to this, this amazing book.

 

Stephanie Barron Hall  30:15

Thank you for having me. This has been so fun.

 

Ricki Lake  30:20

Well, that was interesting. I have to say, this is a world I knew nothing about, and now that I’ve gotten, like, my toe dipped into this world, I want to know more. So I’m definitely tonight, I have a date with my husband. He doesn’t know it yet, but we’re going to take a gummy and we’re going to do this test together, and we’re going to figure out what numbers we are and go from there. I hope you guys got something out of it. And I really hope you’ll check out her book. Her book is really fascinating. It’s called Enneagrams In Real Life, and you can visit ninetypes.co to find out more about Stephanie and her book. Thank you all so much for listening.

 

CREDITS  30:55

There is much more of The High Life with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content. And guys, if you like what you’re hearing, please rate and review it helps our show, and I want to hear what you think so. Check it out. Subscribe now on Apple podcasts.  The High Life is a production of Lemonada Media. Isabella Kulkarni and Kathryn Barnes, and Isara Acevez produced our show. Our mixes by James Sparber. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Additional Lemonada support from Rachel Neel and Steve Nelson. You can find me  @Rickilake on Instagram. Follow The High Life with Ricki Lake, wherever you get your podcasts, or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.

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