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Which new classic has become the best Christmas song of all time: All I Want for Christmas Is You or Last Christmas? Writer, journalist, and poet Kyla Marshell is here to argue for Mariah Carey while radio host, music journalist, and documentary producer Jenny Eliscu takes the side of Wham! Kyla says Mariah created a new standard, which is hard to do in any genre. Jenny must admit that All I Want for Christmas Is You is an excellent song but says Last Christmas resonates with all the people for whom the holidays aren’t a joyful time, but does so in an incredibly catchy way. Which way will Ronald Young Jr. rule? The result is a PCDC first!

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Jenny Eliscu, Ronald young Jr., Kyla Marshell

Ronald young Jr.  00:00

It’s the most wonderful time of the year. Like it or not, the Christmas season is here to assert its dominance from November through December 25 whether you’re planning a party for hosting or gathering some marshmallows for toasting as you go about your life, there’s likely a familiar soundtrack that comes along in the form of Christmas music. People have their favorites this Christmas, Santa baby, or jingle bell, rock. Or maybe you prefer one of the classics, like Silent Night Joy to the world, or I’m dreaming of a white Christmas. But there are a couple of relatively new classics that we can’t seem to get away from. And those, of course, are All I Want for Christmas Is You by Mariah Carey and last Christmas by Wham, both are pop songs. Both include longing and love and catchy beats and vocals that beg you to sing along. But here on PCDC, there can only be one Christmas song that gets the kids jingle belling and everyone telling you Be of good cheer. Is it all i want for Christmas? Is you or last Christmas, we decide once and for all, right here and right now on pop culture Debate Club, I’m Ronald Young Jr.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:18

Let’s meet our panelists for the day. Representing All I want for Christmas is a writer, journalist and poet who was named as one of ebony.com seven young black writers you should know Hello and welcome to Kyla Marshell.

 

Kyla Marshell  01:29

Hello.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:31

Also joining us, representing Last Christmas is a Sirius XM radio host, Rolling Stone contributor and host of the Hit Music podcast LSQ. She is also a documentary producer whose credits include the Netflix documentary Brittany versus spears and the new Hulu film fanatical the catfishing of Tiga and Sarah. Let’s welcome Jenny Eliscu.

 

Jenny Eliscu  01:52

Hi.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:54

Good to have you both. I’m so excited. These are two of my favorite songs, but putting them head to head now that makes for a tricky conversation. But with all of that being said, are y’all ready to fight?

 

Jenny Eliscu  02:06

Ready.

 

Kyla Marshell  02:06

Yes.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:07

All right, Kyla, let’s start with you. What is your opening argument that All I Want for Christmas is the greatest Christmas song of all time?

 

Kyla Marshell  02:17

My opening argument is that it’s incredibly hard to write a new standard in any genre, and if you manage to do that, that means that something really special is going on. People have been listening to this song for 30 years because it’s great. It’s it’s got great lyrics. She manages to get into all the different references to Christmas, you know, slays and bags and gifts. There’s like, multiple levels of metaphor going on there, but I think really, what makes it a song that people like to sing along to and listen to is that it’s got like, the 60s girl group vibe. And we’re living in an era of, like, recycling of music in a way that I don’t always find very exciting. But I think Maria’s version of a of like a Darlene Love send up actually is sounds good and authentic without sounding like it’s just like trying to copy and paste. You can make a retro song that doesn’t sound like Bruno Mars. No offense to those who like Bruno Mars, but we already did 1983 you know? So when he keeps going back, I’m like.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:22

He does love being very derivative.

 

Kyla Marshell  03:25

Yes, that is the word is, I would say that it’s despite the fact that it has very clear influences that all I went for Christmas is not a derivative sounding song.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:35

Jenny, I’ll leave room for rebuttal before I get your opening argument. Anything you’d like to say in response?

 

Jenny Eliscu  03:40

You know, listen, you know how in Miracle on 34th Street, like Santa Claus gets in trouble for telling the kids that they can get the toys at the other store or something, and you’re not supposed to do that. I’m bringing some of that Santa Claus energy to this debate, because it’s really, it’s hard to argue with. All I Want For Christmas Is, you you know, it’s really, I love it. It’s an incredible song. But I’m going to point out some wonderful things about last Christmas instead. So for starters, it’s like, I think a lot of folks can agree that the holidays are hella depressing. You know? I mean, even in the best of circumstances, the family time, the holiday parties, the blood sugar spikes from all the cookies, the year end reflection, you know, it’s it can be a bummer. A lot of folks feel bummed out at the end of the year. And so I think for folks like that, having a tune as devastating as last Christmas, it really resonates with the spirit of the season in a way that happier, more upbeat Christmas songs, such as All I Want For Christmas with you, don’t, they don’t hit that nail. So I think it just does such a masterful job in the realm of songs like Blue Christmas or, you know, even there’s some Sabrina carpenter song from recent years, Cindy Lou Who that’s like a sad Christmas song. Like, I love that energy of just acknowledging that Christmas is sometimes a Summer.

 

Kyla Marshell  05:00

Yes, I fully endorse that. And may I recommend miss you most of Christmas time by Mariah Carey. That is a sad Christmas song, but I hear you, and I agree. And I was having a conversation about this a few hours ago about why are people so excited for the holidays? Everybody’s suffering. Everyone. You know, there’s so much going on in people’s lives that can really be challenging around the time of the year, but I don’t think that last Christmas, like the tone of it has the sad tone, like it is sad that the person gave their heart away the next day, but the music, if you didn’t hear the lyrics, you would have no idea that that’s that that song is about that. So it’s like there’s a little bit of a incongruence between the lyrics and the music, and so it’s hard to take it seriously. It’s like, are they really sad, or are they just saying that they’re sad?

 

Ronald young Jr.  05:57

Jenny, is that true?

 

Jenny Eliscu  05:58

Well, yeah, I agree with that point on the one hand, on the other hand, I could see that as a master stroke of kind of inceptioning the sadness of it with this happy sounding tune that some you know that there are awesome examples of this kind of structure construction where you take there’s the midnight oil song, blue sky mine, which is Just about this devastating working conditions that people are working in. But, you know, there’s, it’s very upbeat, there’ll be food on the table, turn night, and you’re like, damn. But, you know, getting kind of the getting the sad message in with this kind of mirage of happiness, I feel like, is a it’s a good trick. It kind of works.

 

Kyla Marshell  06:38

But do you think that was intentional? I don’t know that. I don’t know that that was intentional. I hear what you’re saying, and I do love music that does that, but I don’t know if it was intentional or if they just, honestly, that song sounds to me like, you know, on the Casio keyboard you have, they have the preset song buttons. It sounds like it’s just one of those preset songs, and they kind of, like, sang along to it for a bit. It doesn’t have, like, well, a really interesting.

 

Jenny Eliscu  07:01

Yeah, I mean, what I know of, like, the actual, like, story of how that song got written suggests otherwise. I mean, you know, Wham was George Michael and Andrew Ridgely, but it was really George Michael. He really did all the stuff, and, like, the day he wrote that song, which was early in 1984 they were at George Michael’s childhood home, Ridgely is like downstairs watching the footy on the TV. George goes up to his childhood bedroom feeling nostalgic, and he whips out last Christmas. He writes it in the course of a couple of hours while Ridgely is watching football and show plays him a little bit of it before Ridgley goes home for the day, and then when he goes into the studio to record it. George Michael plays everything you hear on that song himself, including the sleigh bells. So to me, that suggests, like a lot of intentionality to all of the elements of it. And, you know, I don’t want to transpose too much of my own, like historicizing onto George Michael. But you know, the fact is that George Michael, in early 1984 had already begun to come out to some of his friends as gay, but was still closeted publicly. And I can’t help but hear some of the elements of that. I mean, there’s even, like a reference in the song to, like being undercover. You know, there’s, there’s a seems to be a deliberate avoiding of pronouns in certain cases. So I think it must have been challenging to be George Michael writing a romantic song knowing that you’ve had multiple number ones at that point. I mean, early in the year, they were only just beginning to have the number ones from that album, but he wrote the song with the goal of having it go to number one, and so I think he was pretty calculated about all of the elements of it.

 

Ronald young Jr.  08:49

Kyla, how would you classify all i want for Christmas? Because I think leaning into the idea that the holiday season is kind of tough for a lot of people is is something I would say is an unconventional way of looking at Christmas, especially you think of something like Blue Christmas without you. How would you classify what kind of song All I Want For Christmas Is, you is, if it’s not, if we’re not talking about the kind of sad Christmas song standard?

 

Kyla Marshell  09:16

I guess it’s one of those songs that’s looking at Christmas from, I guess, uh, just like a person to person level, like I was saying, like it’s the the gift is, is this person she wants to come be with her. There is technically an element of longing, like she’s not united with this person. But I think the fact that it’s not about snow or gifts or reindeer, I think that makes that, that gives it, maybe that’s what gives it a little bit more of a personal touch. And I think everybody can relate to that in the sense of like wanting whoever to come be with you at Christmas time. You know whether it’s like a relative. Grandparent a grandchild. You know, it’s like, people do want to come together at Christmas, whether or not they actually get to so there’s, there’s like, a little bit of of that that gives it that a little bit of a difference.

 

Ronald young Jr.  10:15

Well, you brought up earlier, Kyla that you you questioned whether last Christmas was done, that part of the music was done intentionally. And Jenny just mentioned that George Michael kind of did all the instrumentation, all the writing and all that. But according to our music producer, Walter athanasi, if Mariah did all the writing, the melodies and the lyrics, and he took charge of writing the music and the chords.

 

Kyla Marshell  10:37

Oh, for this particular song?

 

Ronald young Jr.  10:39

For this particular song, correct.

 

Kyla Marshell  10:41

I’ve never heard that before.

 

Jenny Eliscu  10:42

Walter would say that wouldn’t, Walter?

 

Kyla Marshell  10:46

Walter is bitch, so he has nothing to complain about. He’s a co writer and CO producer on like 20 number ones. He’s fine.

 

Ronald young Jr.  10:53

Well, no, this is just to say, in terms of you saying building the tension, do you think that is something that Mariah did intentionally, or could it be a happenstance of the song construction and Walter’s input?

 

Kyla Marshell  11:08

Well, I wasn’t in the room, so I don’t know, but I think that that tension is built into the lyrics as well. You like, when you get to the bridge, he’s like, Santa, won’t you bring me the one I really need? And please bring my baby to me. It’s like it’s beyond like the music of it. It’s like she’s still bringing like that, the passion and the tension and the please and the begging to that part of the song so.

 

Jenny Eliscu  11:33

Yeah, I agree with that too. I mean, also, just like I feel like the vocal not to make the case for the other song that I’m supposed to be trying to defeat, but like the the vocal. I mean, it’s the vocals on, you know, what she does with her voice, like, builds the tension. But also, I just feel like, always, like artists that the artist who sings the song and whose name is, who’s the recording artist, like they signed off on everything that’s on that song, and they released it. So it’s just like, in a way, they own all of the parts of the song, even if Walter created some of those parts to suggest to Mariah. You know what I mean. But I do think, like, it was one of the things that really impressed me about last Christmas, when I was learning more about it, just for this that George played all the like, I was just like, wow. He really didn’t need to do that. You know, apparently there was like a producer in the room who was like, let me play the sleigh bells. And George Michael was like no, I’m playing the sleigh bells.

 

Ronald young Jr.  12:28

We’ll be back with more Pop Culture Debate Club after this break.

 

Ronald young Jr.  12:46

Let’s talk a little bit about Christmas shopping and retail workers. So retail workers have expressed their disdain for all i want for christmas due to its excessive air plan, their job with the poll by customer feedback. Company happy or not, maybe this song is the most unpopular among American retail staff, and in 2022 three, separate change.org petitions appeared calling for the song to be banned from stores and radio stations. Similarly, of 2019 poll found that the song was one that British festive shoppers have found. Quote, The most annoying.  How do you respond to that Kyla?

 

Kyla Marshell  13:22

It’s oversaturated. I get it, and I think part of the oversaturation comes from, like, decades of it being slept on, like people just didn’t know. I’m also, I’ve also taken on a bit of the mantle of Mariah Carey’s chip on her shoulder that she has about not being acknowledged as a songwriter, only having five Grammys, etc. It’s like, there’s a lot of five. There’s a lot of people have more than that that you like. What did you do? You know, I don’t know if y’all are familiar with like, the justice for various Marie Carrie albums that didn’t get to do in their time, but I think that album, possibly, and that song definitely didn’t go number one until 2020, or 2019, 25, years after it had come out. Because I’m not, I’m not like a crazy fan like that. I’m like streaming all i want for Christmas. You on silent, you know, for hours on end. But you know, this song, this album, were out for decades before they were paid attention to, even though it’s really great from top to bottom, including the other original songs she wrote. So I think when people have this kind of like, rediscovery of the song, like, oh my gosh, this is a really good song like this is a good, a really good Christmas song that’s different than the ones we’re used to hearing. Let’s play it a lot. And I think around the same time is when Mariah Carey kind of took, she kind of was like, oh, I’m the queen of Christmas. And people started thinking associating her with Christmas in a way that I don’t recall them every doing that before. So we’re now. It’s like now when it’s November 1, all of a sudden it’s, it’s Mariah Carey, Christmas time. So I think it’s, you know, people get, they’ve gotten caught up in the in the rapture, to quote another R&B diva, same for not like us, but Kendrick Lamar. You know, I think after week two, it was like, I don’t need to hear this song every day. But when people are really into something, they’re really into it, and they think, oh, let me be the one to play it over the intercom. And it’s like, no, but I already heard it in the car on the way here, and I’m gonna hear it when I leave so.

 

Ronald young Jr.  15:38

You think that last Christmas has that same impact on folks. Jenny, do you think that it’s a it is tending become more oversaturated?

 

Jenny Eliscu  15:46

Well, yeah. I mean, there are a couple of similar key similarities. One is that, similarly, it took forever to actually reach number one back in 1984 like I said earlier, like George Michael was like, we’re gonna have four number ones this year, and then before it came out, timed perfectly in early December. The whole thing with Band Aid, and Do They Know It’s Christmas? Was like becoming a reality. Of course, George Michael sings prominently on that tune, and even just in the studio making it, he knew there’s interviews with him where he’s like, we’re fucked. You know, our goal of being number one with last Christmas is shot out of the water, because clearly this charity single is going to be the number one, and it was. And so last Christmas was kept from achieving that by, Do They Know It’s Christmas only to finally reach number 136, years after its release in 2021 and  it was until it reached number one. It held the record for the longest it took for a tune that was, you know, still circulating, to actually get to number one. I guess the killer’s Mr. Brightside has that distinction in the UK now, but it’s so ubiquitous in the UK that there’s a game that people play in the UK called whamagett, where you amongst your friends compete to see who can go the longest without hearing it. That’s how annoyed you are, as like, you know, if you I think it’s like starting November 1 or something, if you can make it to Christmas Day avoiding hearing last Christmas, you win, or something like that, because it’s that difficult to avoid. But I guess I would just say that for either of these tunes. Ubiquity is proof of how great they are. You know, it’s like, if somebody’s annoyed that they hear these songs too much, write a fucking better Christmas song.

 

Ronald young Jr.  17:30

That same contest exists for all i want for Christmas. States, yeah, I’ve seen it on Reddit several times. I’ve actually wanted to do one myself, mostly because, for me when I’m listening to all i want for Christmas. Personally, I want to wait as long as possible so that I can really have a good listen and really enjoy it before I listen to it hundreds of times. But I’m not a person that necessarily gets tired of either one of these songs in the same way that others do, but I think if you’re pulling retail shoppers, they would be sick of the little Saint Nick if they played it 500 times while you’re while you’re at a place that you actually don’t want to be as well.

 

Kyla Marshell  18:08

Yeah.

 

Ronald young Jr.  18:09

So all I want for Christmas is 30 years old, and last Christmas is 40 years old. But both have shown that they have staying power as holiday classics. But tastes do change, as you’ve seen, a song like last Christmas is starting to grow in more popularity. Kyla, do you think that people in 2054 will appreciate the ear candy that is all I want for Christmas ?

 

Kyla Marshell  18:31

2054 so in 30 years, I think so. I think it definitely has that potential, the way that musical styles kind of cycle in and out. And I think the theme of it is so relatable, um, even though, you know, if you learn a little bit about Maria Kira, she was not having, like, the greatest romantic life when in the 90s, when she was in her 20s, you know, she was married to her boss, who was like, twice her age, and, you know, and trapped in an unhappy marriage so a lot of it feels quite theoretical, probably, in terms of who is she singing to or singing about, um, but maybe that’s just a reflection of, you know, we all can imagine getting the gift of, like a great love, or someone who’s really dear to us for the holidays.

 

Ronald young Jr.  19:27

Jenny, what about last Christmas? Do you think it’s still popular in 2054?

 

Jenny Eliscu  19:32

I don’t know. I mean, I feel like I’m wondering about I was, as you guys were talking, I was thinking about, like the super old, like, I don’t even know enough to know how old, but when we think about, like religious holiday songs or whatever, like Silent Night or some shit, like, when was silent night written? I mean, or even, like the stuff that you hear that’s like desk day Fidelis, you know, these things that are like, you know, maybe Bing Crosby or someone, or Frank Sinatra, like, recorded. Them now we’re so used to, like, Bruce Springsteen, Santa Claus is coming to town. Is like, like, a classic rock Christmas song or whatever. And obviously now we’re on like, you know, some of these songs, they’re 40 years old. That’s already a long time. But I think about production values changing ultimately, like, I just wonder if the way that the production of music is going to continue changing, and ears will continue adapting to it. If you’re shopping in future target or whatever the fuck like, what are you going to be hearing over the speakers, and how much of a sound clash would it be if a 1993 recording or a 1984 recording came on those same speakers, like, will somebody, will wome young artists need to do their own version of All I Want For Christmas Is You or their own version of last Christmas with whatever 2054 production sounds like, in order for it to even be considered to play to people at that point. But if we’re just talking about the song, like the concept of the song, the the muse, you know what I mean, like, not the recording, but the song itself. Yes, I think there will be newer versions of these songs at some point down the line, because I do think they’re both very special. Not to quote lyrics from last Christmas, but focusing on the song, I’m supposed to be my client here. I’m supposed to be defending, you know, one of the things that I love about it is that it does tell a story, you know. It does a very good job of telling a story with kind of a beginning, middle and end of this concept of last year, just a year ago, I gave you my heart, and the very next day, damn you, gave it away, you know. So I hope that other artists will record and reinterpret it in the future, because it does feel, even though it doesn’t sound sonically as much like an instant classic, the way, All I Want For Christmas Is You did and does like I do feel like it is a very unique and kind of perfect Christmas pop song.

 

Ronald young Jr.  21:54

Both songs have had re recordings last Christmas has Ariana Grande version. It has a Glee version. And All I Want For Christmas Is You has a Justin Bieber version and a Pentatonix version. Like there’s, there’s definitely artists doing that reinterpretation. But to heart in both of you, Blue Christmas was released in 1957 from Elvis Presley. Little St Nick was released in 1964 from the Beach Boys. Santa Claus is coming to town, recorded by the Jackson Five in 1970 followed shortly after by Bruce Springsteen and the E Street dead recording Santa Claus is Coming to Town in 1975 so there’s definitely a lot of there’s a lot of a basis for these songs having staying power in the future. We’ll be back with more PCDC after this break.

 

Ronald young Jr.  22:55

Let me ask you both. Well start with you. Kyla, closing argument. All I want for Christmas is the greatest Christmas song of all time.

 

Kyla Marshell  23:03

I think another thing about it is that it’s a fun song to sing along to, and there is a little bit of a story going on. Like, when you’re like, Okay, there’s someone she’s she’s wishing for for Christmas. Are they gonna make it? And there’s something about a song that’s great to listen to, but great to sing along to that has like that, not just like a narrative conclusion, but like a harmonic conclusion. You know, at the end there’s like, that big, like long note that she’s singing, and that’s, that’s what makes the holidays fun, is like, there’s other songs that might be more contemplative, but this one, it’s like it’s really simple and straightforward in a way that the best songs are.

 

Ronald young Jr.  23:48

Jenny, closing argument for Last Christmas.

 

Jenny Eliscu  23:52

Well, I mean, you know, to reiterate some of what I’ve said, the the sadness of last Christmas works on me so well. A friend of mine was was saying the other day that for every Barbie, there’s a Daria. And last Christmas is the Daria to all i want for christmas says Barbie. And I guess as a Daria myself, I will always sort of connect with that element in music, the part that’s just the most melancholy. And, you know, I think that’s just something that a lot of people can relate to. And, you know, I I don’t know that I can say, even in this format, that last Christmas is the best Christmas song of all time. I might actually have to say that all i want for Christmas is you could be it. I also really think that Merry Christmas war is over. Could be my favorite Christmas song of all time. But I do think last Christmas is the best sad Christmas song of all time, because of its story structure, because of the places it goes, because of how savage it is. You know, as I’ve said, the very next day, you gave it away, and he’s. Still up for it. In the song, there’s a moment where he notes that, like, if, if you looked at him again, he would probably fall back into it. The fact that he wrote an entire song as revenge on someone, and then, but then was still so hung up on that person that he wrote an entire song about how they gave their art away the music video, which is so cool, and one of the very few examples back then of a music video with no lip syncing in it, which is a classy move, like, you know, all of those things just really sell it for me. And the fact that, I mean, this is such a depressing note for me to end my closing arguments on, but there’s something so devastating as well about the fact that George Michael himself passed away on Christmas Day, just like what the f.

 

Ronald young Jr.  25:47

So would argue that he was it on the bit.

 

Jenny Eliscu  25:50

He didn’t even make it to the very next day. You know, it’s devastating. Sorry. I’m sorry I told you.

 

Ronald young Jr.  25:59

All right, are you all ready for my ruling?

 

Kyla Marshell  26:01

Yes.

 

Jenny Eliscu  26:02

Indeed.

 

Ronald young Jr.  26:03

Okay, so typically, in these circumstances, it starts off 111, and we have where our goal is to get to two, one, meaning one of you is voted for last Christmas, one of you is voted for All I Want for Christmas and I am the neutral party, uh, voting for neither at the time. So your your goal is to sway me over from one side or another. So I think that these are two incredibly hard songs to pit against each other, because I think they are both essential Christmas songs. I think they do exactly what you expect for Christmas, which is, and I would argue that most Christmas songs are either about wanting something or having something, or needing something or going to get something. It’s all about that’s typically going to be the conceit of most Christmas songs. You either have it already, or you’re about to go get it, or you’re on your way to it, or you really, really want it. Like those are the things. Like, if you go through all of the songs, there’s gonna be some version of those four things in this one last Christmas is talking about something I had and lost, and all I want for Christmas is talking about something I really, really want. At some point, when I listen to both of these songs, they’re on my Ronald essential Christmas listening list. I listen to last Christmas over and over again. I remember I used to listen to it on the radio, and I used to sing along and be like, I don’t know why I’m so into this song, but it really hits, especially with the musical break, which we didn’t even get to, the boom […] like that part is just incredible. Like, just what musicality in that song. But also, all I want for Christmas has a full modulation in the middle of the song. Like, just like we go from one note to the next, and I’m just like, oh, we in a different place, did the dude show up than the person that she’s singing about that they actually show up? Like, that’s that feels good, and it doesn’t feel like it necessarily goes to, like, a strong conclusion. I don’t know if the dude shows up or the person, whoever she was thinking about. I don’t know if they actually show up for her to actually say that I’ve gotten this person, but I do know we have some sort of illustration of that showing up in the very problematic movie, love, actually, which kind of became, I would say, the second wave of loving that song, which is, this is the song that’s played at the Big hit scene at the end when the president, the president, kisses his secretary, and everyone’s all clapping and stuff. And the love all comes actually to a head. That’s a very problematic movie, and it’s not really a plug for that movie at all. If you’ve seen it, watch it through 2024 eyes, it’s gonna be a problem. But that’s another song that kind of uplifts it and shows like The Power of taking a song like this and scoring it. If you scored this song on a Christmas movie, you’re still gonna feel joy, even though she’s singing about longing for something, whereas last Christmas is a sad song. I would take last Christmas as a sad song against other non Christmas sad songs in terms of, like, what it competes against. But however, this is gonna be the first time I’ve done this. I told y’all the score is 111, and typically we get to two, one. And unfortunately, I would have voted Last Christmas and last Christmas would have won. However, Jenny, you stated, in your closing argument, that All I Want For Christmas Is You is the greatest Christmas song of all time, effectively making this vote two to one. Kyla, All I Want For Christmas Is You is the greatest Christmas song of all time. Congratulations.

 

Kyla Marshell  29:22

Thank you so much, Jenny, you put the ball in the other team’s basket.

 

Jenny Eliscu  29:28

It’s another very Daria thing of me to do.

 

Ronald young Jr.  29:33

I appreciate both of y’all being here. Jenny, where could folks find you if they’re looking?

 

Jenny Eliscu  29:38

I have a podcast called LSQ, just like the phonetic version of my last name, and it’s interviews with artists, and you can find it on your preferred podcast platform, and at Jennylsq.com

 

Ronald young Jr.  29:50

Amazing, and Kyla, where can folks find you?

 

Kyla Marshell  29:52

You can find me at Kylamarchelle.com you can subscribe to my sub stack. You can follow me on Instagram.

 

Ronald young Jr.  29:59

Thank you both so much for being here. This was fun.

 

Kyla Marshell  30:02

Thank you.

 

Jenny Eliscu  30:03

Thank you, Ronald.

 

CREDITS  30:09

Thanks again to Kyla Marshell and Jenny Eliscu, there’s more Pop Culture Debate Club with Lemonada Premium.Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like Kyla and Jenny discussing their argument styles and their first memories of Mariah Carey and George Michael. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts. Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC.   It’s produced by Jamela Zarha Williams, Kryssy Pease,  Dani Matias and me, Ronald young Jr. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our Senior Vice President of weekly content  and production is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer.   Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.