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If saving and investing money isn’t a top priority in your life, you’re not alone. The AARP reports that over half of Americans over 50 are worried they won’t have enough money to support themselves in retirement. Noah Kerner created Acorns to help people gain control over their financial future. Noah and Reshma discuss how our relationship with money changes and evolves as we get older, the biggest financial hurdle Noah sees people having to overcome in midlife, and how to save money if you really don’t have much to spare.

Head to acorns.com/midlife or download the Acorns app to get started.

You can follow our host Reshma Saujani @reshmasaujani on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/reshmasaujani/?hl=en

Let us know how you’re doing in midlife! You can submit your story to be included in this show at speakpipe.com/midlife

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Noah Kerner, Reshma Saujani

Reshma Saujani  00:09

Welcome to My So Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I’m Reshma Saujani. As women navigate midlife, we often find ourselves facing some tough decisions, whether it’s managing our finances, planning for retirement or just making sure we’re on track to meet long term goals. Many of us are balancing our own financial security while also thinking about the financial future of our kids. So if you’re like me, you’ve probably wondered, Am I doing this right? What steps should I be taking now to set myself and my family up for success? I am so excited to welcome Noah Kerner to the show. Noah is the CEO and chairman of Acorns, which was named one of the best money saving apps by Forbes last year, and a Time Magazine brand of the year. It’s known for micro investing and has a cool feature that automatically invests your spare change. They’ve also got a program that helps parents set up their kids for financial success, as well as acorns later that supports retirement goals you’ve probably heard if you’re a listener of the show, Acorns is a sponsor. But I’ve known Noah way back before, midlife, in his teens and early 20s, Noah DJed high profile Hip Hop nightclubs and events opened for major acts like Wu Tang Clan. He was the DJ for Jennifer Lopez at one point, and he built five companies, including the Creative Advertising Agency noise and the shareholder rights company. Say he also wrote the business book chasing cool with the former CEO of Barney’s, and I wanted to have no on the show, because we’re both in midlife, and I have seen him through every aspect of his life, and I just love what he’s doing at Acorns. I think it’s so important for women in midlife to be comfortable with money, to understand money, and to be financially independent. And yes, I know Noah is the first dude ever to be on my so called midlife and I’m so glad we did it, because this interview taught me that it’s never too late to start investing and make yourself financially independent. So let’s get to the conversation.

 

Reshma Saujani  02:28

Hey, now, what’s up?

 

Noah Kerner  02:30

What’s going on?

 

Reshma Saujani  02:31

You know, living life. So our first question that we always ask everybody is about midlife and what’s your mindset? And everybody I’ve talked to, like, it varies. Like, some people are like, This is amazing. I’m having the time of my life. And some people are like, this sucks. Where are you?

 

Noah Kerner  02:48

I’m the same place. I don’t really have a midlife mindset, at least not on a person. On a personal front, it’s just like, I whenever I ask anybody about myself, they basically say, like, I’m the same since I was seven.

 

Reshma Saujani  03:00

Okay, but on a personal note, like you were like a DJ, so you’re used to being like, walking in and being like the coolest guy in the room, and so you don’t feel any, any anything about getting older?

 

Noah Kerner  03:12

Only pain.

 

Reshma Saujani  03:14

Physical pain.

 

Noah Kerner  03:15

You mean, like physical pain, yeah.

 

Reshma Saujani  03:17

Yeah, so one of the things for me that has changed as I’ve gotten older, is like my relationship with money. So I remember when I first started, when I first came to New York, where I got a job at a law firm. I eventually got fired at that law firm, and so I had this period of time where I was used to a certain lifestyle, right? Like I was the kid that grew up in Schaumburg, Illinois, $300,000 in student loan debt. Student loan debt. Like going out for dinner was like Taco Bell or Pizza Hut. I get to fancy New York City. I’m making bank working at this law firm, and I’m just blowing it because I had really never learned about money in the way probably I needed to. And I remember one day I look at my bank account, it’s just like, gone. It’s like, dwindling, and I think I’ve been scammed, right? That somebody has, like, hacked in my account and, like, stole all my money. I call Bank of America and, like, I’ve been, you know, she’s like, No, ma’am. Like, that’s how much you spend a month. The older I get now, I have a very different relationship with money, like, I’m curious, right? You also, kind of, you went from DJ to CEO, right? Like, your professional career, like, how has your relationship with money changed and evolved as you’ve gotten older?

 

Noah Kerner  04:33

I mean, I grew up around a good amount of money anxiety, you know, my parents were the kind of parents when the market went down, right away, pulled out the money, which is the exact wrong time to pull out the money? Why is that the wrong time to pull out the money after the market went down? Because you just lost all of it, and then you pull your money out, and you don’t make money on what will inevitably be the rebound. I have a mantra, by the way, about this, that’s. In my head that I tell people, which is that every downturn in history has ended in an upturn. I literally, whenever the market crashed, like the last crash, it was incredibly sharp. It was like one day march 18, the market went down. It was nuts. And I’m pacing around our place. Every downturn in history ends in an upstart, literally saying this to myself. And that day, I took all my liquid cash and threw it in the market. And, you know, Carol looked at me like I was crazy. Carol looks at you right? Your partner, yeah, yeah. I like, like, in my 20s, even, even as a result of that, like, I emerged out of, you know, childhood with a real conservatism around money. I was a checking account cash. Maybe I dabble in bonds. That was it. So I actually had, like, a lost decade that was very important for me in terms of, like, the next chapters of my life. But I was very, very safe, very conservative. I missed out on all the market gains for that period, and that came from watching my parents make those decisions, you know, which is, I think, is how so many of us form our relationship to money. Absolutely, did they talk to you about money? I just, I think it was also a different time. It’s like money is part of conversation now, I think it’s elevated to a level of consciousness and culture that’s much different than than when we grew up. You know what I mean? But I don’t remember. I mean, I just remember my father telling me I can’t have a second coke because it’s too expensive. So now, if I don’t really drink a lot of coke, but every you know, when I have a Coke, I just ordered two.

 

Reshma Saujani  06:29

Totally happy, like my parents never went grocery shopping without you could not buy something unless you had a coupon, right? Yeah? Period. That was it. And I think it, you know, they came as refugees, $11 in their pockets, right? And you’re right, same thing, everything was in a savings account or a low risk interest bearing account. Like, I don’t think they got comfortable investing in the stock market until they were older and they had, like, assurance that they could lose something. But they were like, you know, I mean, stable. What do you think is like the biggest hurdle? You see people today facing midlife financial hurdle?

 

Noah Kerner  07:09

I tell the company that we’re in the business of managing emotions, and I see, I see a lot of people make money decisions based on emotion. So I think I would see, I would say that, like, the fear is probably the biggest negative driver of people’s money decisions, and that that goes back to exactly that point about like, pulling your money out at the wrong time, panicking, worrying about everything if you want to make good money decisions when the markets are not doing well, do not read the news, because it’s end of times. So I think I would say it’s fear and that. And you know that one moment when you get sort of a heightened level of anxiety that can make you make that drive you to make a bad decision that can really ruin your whole trajectory in terms of compounding and the law and the benefiting from the long term power of the market. So, like, there’s this great stat that I throw out sometimes that if you had not been in the market five days in the last 40 years, you would have lost a third of your net worth. And so think of so if any one of those days. And obviously there’s other days that are really meaningful. If one of those days was a day you had a bad day, and you’re like, fuck it. I can’t deal with this. It’s too much stress. I’m just gonna, I just want to, I just want to alleviate my stress, and I’m going to do this, to do that that’s so consequential in the long term, you know, so I so that’s, I would say, actually, like, in conversations I have with people, that’s number one.

 

Reshma Saujani  08:34

Number one is basically, like, don’t be afraid. So like, and so that means to not to so to practice not being afraid. Don’t read the news.

 

Noah Kerner  08:43

Yeah, I think have a really core set of principles, and those you know, whether you’re high or low, those principles should drive your relationship to money and your and your decision. So I like one of them, I or mantras, whatever you want to call them, but one of them is every downturn in history has ended in an upturn, like, if you really remember that in that moment when you’re having peak anxiety and you’re about to make a terrible decision with your money, you know you’re, you know you I have, like, family members who, during, I mean, during this, like, think the bank, there’s gonna be a run on the banks. I mean, they’re right. And then everybody, by the way, everybody moves past those periods, and it’s like they never existed before. And every time, like.

 

Reshma Saujani  09:22

If you own Tesla stock and you’re like, oh, this motherfucker about Twitter, bad decision. It’s all gonna go down. Let me sell it all. And now look.

 

Noah Kerner  09:30

Yeah, that, by the way, that’s another one. Stay diversified. You know, don’t try to be a hero, don’t have an inflated sense of your own ability to to forecast the future, like i Whenever someone asks me a question, I’m like, I’m not a prognostic. I don’t have a crystal ball. Nobody does. So the best way to think about investing is to be as diversified as possible, right? Because you don’t. The way I would frame it for people is like, would you rather own one company, stock or the entire American economy? Is. Essentially. And I think if you’re a betting person, is better to own the entire or have exposure to the entire American economy, which is to say, have a portfolio of ETFs, which is a way of saying 1000s of stocks involved. Basically, right, like so it’s all about time in the market, not timing the market. That’s one of those mantras I always remember, like, it’s all about time in meaning, be in the market for as long as possible. Don’t pull your money out if you can avoid it at all.

 

Reshma Saujani  10:35

But okay, but how do you do that, right? Because, one, what if you don’t have a risk tolerance? And two, if you’re like, again, like, this is my life savings. I’m really attached. I’m looking at my you know, I mean, I’m looking at my account, and I’m just, I, you know, put in $10,000 and now it’s worth three, how do I not feel that?

 

Noah Kerner  10:56

You don’t have to have a, yeah, sorry to cut you off. You don’t have to have a risk tolerance. Just look at the data. Look at history. It’s not it’s not a I mean, obviously investing is risky, but investing is risky in the short term, if you look at it through the lens of a day, a month, or even a year, sometimes three years. But if you have a long term view and you look at the history of the market, the market has always gone up. So sure, if you’re trying to make a quick buck, and if you look at investing as trading, and you’re trying in a get rich quick scheme, then you can see it as risky. But if you look at the data and you look at history, it’s not risky. Actually, what’s risky is to not invest. That’s what’s risky.

 

Reshma Saujani  11:36

Is to not invest. All right, I want to get to that. No. Will you give like, a three sentence description of like, what Acorns is and what it does?

 

Noah Kerner  11:44

Acorns is where you come to easily and automatically save and invest for the future. When you sign up, you connect your debit or credit cards, you tell us a little bit about yourself, you connect a funding source, and then we automatically construct a portfolio for you and automatically save and invest money for you in the background of life.

 

Reshma Saujani  12:02

So like, was there a demographic you were targeted at? Were you targeting young people and like? And the theory was, essentially, I want to demystify investing. I want you to take your spare change essentially, and put it into the market.

 

Noah Kerner  12:16

Yeah, so Acorns is really for everyday people. The The reason we go after young people. And by the way, now families and kids is because the earlier you start, the more you benefit from the long term power of compounding. So if your parents start investing in you at birth, that’s better than 10, that’s better than you at 18, 30 you know, etc. So we focus on trying to get people invested in the markets early as possible. And in that sense, you know, it’s we go after young people. But acorns customer base runs the gamut from kids who were just born to 98.

 

Reshma Saujani  12:49

So no, what’s the difference between, like, a 401 K and an acorns account.

 

Noah Kerner  12:54

If you have a 401 if you have a company matched 401 K, like the company’s matching 3% or something on your money, you should take advantage of that and max it out. A lot of people don’t have 401 K’s. A lot of people don’t participate in their 401 K’s. A lot of 401 K’s aren’t matching. And then the other thing is, you think about acorns as sort of a portable 401 k by the way, we do a 3% match on the retirement account and a 1% match on the kids account, so we also do our own matching. But a lot of people are moving around job to job a lot, and it’s a real ordeal to move your 401, K from company to company. So you could think about acorns as a portable 401K product.

 

Reshma Saujani  13:28

Okay, I have a confession to make. I have never invested in the stock i I told you I was turning 50 soon, like my dad did my taxes. Now, my husband does my taxes, and I always say, if no Hall does, I am fucked, right? And I decided this year I was doing my New Year’s resolutions, right? Like, I’m gonna change this so I’m a customer. Never invested in a stock before. What is my first step?

 

Noah Kerner  13:52

I mean, without sounding self promotional, that’s like, that’s the problem we solve. You just in five minutes with acorns, you sign up and you’re investing in the market. And by the way, like you’re doing $5 a day or $10 a day, or $50 a week, 25 whatever you know, whatever you can do automatically, plus some spare change, and then a few minutes later, you’ve got a retirement account and you’ve got an investment account for your kids. So like I would say, on an emotional level, we try to take as much stress out of the picture as possible and give as much peace of mind and make it a background of life activity, like there’s this great saying that the best investor is a dead investor, and that’s because every time you’re awake and every time you’re thinking about doing something, you’re probably you might make a bad decision, right? So.

 

Reshma Saujani  14:34

Got it, so I come in and I say, I got $10 right? I open my acorns account, and then you just, you take care of it? Basically, it’s not like, I have to learn or because that’s my question. It’s like, is there a learning point that you want for people? How does that work?

 

Noah Kerner  14:50

Yeah, by the way, you tell us a few things about yourself, and we construct a portfolio for you based on age, risk tolerance, that kind of thing. So we construct a portfolio you. And then we suggest an amount you know, you decide what you want it to be, and then, boom, you’re investing in the markets. On the education front, I want to make it so simple that you don’t need to know, but I really do want you to learn, right?

 

Reshma Saujani  15:12

Like, I want you to tell like, if I’m a third grader, like, I need to break tell me the basics.

 

Noah Kerner  15:16

The basics would be, we just launched acorns early, which is for kids. First of all, you can start investing in your kids at birth. As soon as they have a social security number, you should start investing in your kids right away. I like $5 a day. Our product makes it super easy, just as easy to do that you can see what their long term potential is. The age of transfers, 18. We do these recaps quarterly where, like, parents and kids can sit down together and go through what’s happening. By six, we have an allowance card that you can load for your kids when they do chores. That’s so cool. Yeah, so like, whatever it is, laundry this, so they start to learn good habits. You give them money for doing it, and then they can make trade off decisions, should I spend it on my card? Should I save it? Should I give it to a charity, or should I invest it? And that’s kind of how that process becomes, I think it’s all about, like, understanding the trade offs and understanding that, you know, investing is long term, saving is more short term spending you have to do, but like, it’s not, it’s not going to necessarily benefit you in The long term, in comparison to saving and investing.

 

Reshma Saujani  16:18

I read this great article. My friend Jessica gross wrote it about millennials and midlife, and it’s actually really shifted, like I almost I’m turning 50 this year. You know, we went through big booms, right? Like I was able to really save money. I had consistency in the job market. I was able to buy a home, right? Like I did all the things that you were supposed to do, you know, I look at my niece or, you know, my people work with me, you know, moms first and like, they didn’t get to do any of that, because there were significant amount of time in their 20s and 30s where they didn’t have a job, right? So much less be able to save. So if I’m a millennial, mid lifer, and I’m listening to this, I’m probably like, what money? Yeah, right. Like, they’re gonna have to work harder and longer than their parents their grandparents did, and it’s clear that, like, you know, money has really shaped their view right of this moment in their lives. Like, what’s your take on that?

 

Noah Kerner  17:41

Make trade offs. So save and invest whatever, whatever you can like, the farther, the longer you put it off, the worse later is going to be. So my thing would be, do it with your spare change. Do it $5 a day. We make it easy to save and invest part of your paycheck. Take 5% of your paycheck right before you’re about to use it and save and invest it, but don’t put off for tomorrow what you should be doing today. And even if you’re saying, I just don’t have it. The reality is, most people can find it, even if it’s your spare change. It adds up over time. But if you wait another 10 years, like me, you lost the decade you had to, you know, you have a lost decade, and you don’t want to do.

 

Reshma Saujani  18:19

Yeah, so you’re basically So one example is, literally tomorrow, take 5%.

 

Noah Kerner  18:24

Yeah, or it’s your spare change. And you don’t even feel it like we round up and invest every purchase you made to the nearest dollar and invest a spare change or, yeah, maybe it’s one less coffee or maybe it’s one less meal out, but the average person can afford to make some trade offs in the near term to benefit the long term. And I like, like, you know, you talk to parents, they tend to be more persuaded to do that for their kids, too. So make a trade off for your kids today.

 

Reshma Saujani  18:50

You know, and what if you only have like, $50 a month? Like, is that okay?

 

Noah Kerner  18:53

$50 a month is great. I mean, rounding up and investing in spare change adds up to like, 30 to $35 a month, even 40, depending on how much you spend. But anything is better than nothing.

 

Reshma Saujani  19:03

Even $5 is okay?

 

Noah Kerner  19:05

So $5 a day invested in your kid at birth is four and a half million dollars by retirement, if the kid continues at 18, continuing to do $5 a day, $5 a day at 18 is one 1.4 million. So think about that. And then, and then it gets worse and worse and worse as you as you wait. So don’t wait.

 

Reshma Saujani  19:22

One of the things you and I have talked about too before is, like, policy. Like, how do we change this as a generation? I often think of my parents coming here with $10 in their pockets, and like, where they are now and where we are now. And like, you look around and you’re like, Is that even possible today? Like, what do we have to do to actually change that for people?

 

Noah Kerner  19:44

I mean, I think there should be a matching program for any parent that invests in their kids. The government should have a matching program because you’ve shown accountability as a parent. You’re taking the action yourself. The government should match like a broad government 401, K savings plan for the next year. Generation of kids, I think that would be fantastic. And by the way, like everyone can align around that there’s, I don’t think either side, you know, wouldn’t get behind that. We have a, by the way, there’s, there’s a cool like, the national debt is $34 trillion something like that. If 100 million everyday Americans did what the millions of Americans are doing now on acorns, 40 years from now, they’d have a net a net worth of $40 trillion through the power of compounding. So the real thing is, get a program that further motivates parents to save and invest for their kids done. And you know, you have the accountability of the parents, and then you have the matching for the kids, then the next generation is going to be in a totally different spot, you know, then, why acts and Boomers?

 

Reshma Saujani  20:46

Yeah, do you think it’s, I mean, it’s possible for millennials. I mean, the Times had, like, surveyed, like 1000s of millennials, and what they found was that, like, so many of them felt like, you know, right now, you and I might be feeling like we’re bored, you know? I mean, like, is this it like we’re craving some adventure, but, like, for a lot of people, they’re just craving stability, right? And one of the things that you heard over and over again is like, who has midlife crisis money right now? How do you change that? Like, do you think that’s gonna change?

 

Noah Kerner  21:17

I think there’s a confluence of factors that have happened over the last 10 to 20 years that make things very difficult for the for the generation, right? So that’s but, but again, you know, get back to the sense of stability, sense of control, like, and I don’t mean to keep promoting this or pushing it, but I really believe it obviously like the way to help create that for yourself, the way to pull yourself out of it is to start taking care of your money and making the right decisions now that will just fundamentally change your life later. And I just, I just don’t buy the comment that people make that I can’t do it. I don’t buy it.

 

Reshma Saujani  21:54

I think one of the things you’re saying too is which it’s never too late. I do think there’s a sense of, well, if I didn’t start investing when I’m 20, and now that I’m 45 and I’ve never done that before, it’s too late. And I think your point is that it’s, it’s not ever too late to do.

 

Noah Kerner  22:09

It’s never too late. And you also don’t know how long you’re gonna live, right? We have no idea how long life is gonna go. I mean, when we turn 90, we might be living forever.

 

Reshma Saujani  22:18

I think we’re, I feel like we’re like, living forever, and we’re like, not getting social security, which brings me to like, retirement, right? Like, I do think that people in their midlife right now are really still thinking about like retirement. Like, we’re just not only talking about like saving for our kids college, but also we’re deciding about like, how do I save for my own retirement? Like, how do you think you do both?

 

Noah Kerner  22:40

Well, the point you were making, I think you need to think about this from the perspective of, I need to be independent and I need to be independent because you never know what’s going to happen. I need to be independent because certain safety nets might might not be there. I need to be independent because life might be a lot longer than I thought. I need to be independent because I might lose my job, whatever it is, like you. So you need to think through the lens of independence. If you’re in a relationship, you just never right. You just never know. So I always think about money that way, through the lens of independence and and and freedom, and then in terms of, like, saving for yourself and saving for your kids. Do $5 a day in both directions.

 

Reshma Saujani  23:14

Yeah, do you think we’re gonna do actually, do think there’s gonna be retirement money for us when we when we retire, or no? Like, if you’re somebody right now and you’re looking into what we think is going to happen, you know, with Social Security, would you say, oh, you better set aside some money.

 

Noah Kerner  23:29

I would definitely not assume that it’s going to be there. I think that’s not a guarantee at all. Nothing’s a guarantee so I think you need to think in terms of independence, and I would assume the worst.

 

Reshma Saujani  23:41

Do you ever talk to people, Noah, who are like, You know what? Fuck it like, I don’t want to save money. I’m not gonna, like, do any trade offs. Like, I’m not gonna not I want that second coffee. What do you say to them? Meaning, like, I don’t want to invest because I want to live it up now. I want to put every dollar I have into the present.

 

Noah Kerner  24:01

Maybe as I’ve gotten older, I try not to necessarily offer up my opinions in that way as much now, because, like, who am I to say how people should live? But my natural instinct is to say, you’re an idiot, if that’s what you’re doing, like, you know, but, but I mean, the follow on comment to that could be, you know, somebody could say, look, I feel like I have infinite earning potential. I feel like I have infinite energy. I feel like I do what I love, so I’m just going to work forever, and I’m going to live for today, like I get it, but it’s not a good decision. You just don’t know what the future holds. You don’t know what tomorrow holds. You don’t know what’s going to happen to in your life, to yourself. So you always have to be thinking about tomorrow, even if you’re one of these people that loves to live in the present. And you know, I am somebody who definitely tries to balance having, like little joys, enjoying my life now while thinking about the future. So, you know, but you can’t that is very difficult. To live in the extremes, like, like that, if you want to have a healthy life later. And then I guess I would say we really don’t know how long we’re gonna live. Like we really could be here for a long time.

 

Reshma Saujani  25:10

For a long ass time. Noah, yeah, it’s gonna be a long ass. I mean, already we’re living longer than anyone has ever seen people live. They already. We already are in a place where we’d never been.

 

Noah Kerner  25:23

I think it’s a we. I think it’s a weird thing when people have sort of this sense of certainty, like, a sense of like, or even this feeling of everything’s going to be okay, like, you just don’t You don’t know that. So I love hope for the best. Expect the worst. I think that’s a good That’s a good mindset.

 

Reshma Saujani  26:04

The reason why I’m so excited about this conversation, and so so excited about what you’re doing with acorns, is given all the work that I’ve been doing for the past 30 years with women, I realized that we are never going to be free until we get over the fear that we women often have about money, like, I have a lot of fear in a very complex relationship with money, whether that means I never invested before, whether that means I have a hard time asking for a raise, whether that means I always want to be like, oh, if you please, can you you know, and don’t ask for what I deserve. Because we’re taught that if you pursue money as a woman, you’re you’re selfish, right? And it’s deeply problematic, because wherever I go, I see women under negotiate. I see women not who, who are rich, you know, philanthropically, are not as generous as they should be. And you can actually fix real big problems like paid leave and childcare, if you had more women who had the resources investing. I mean, there’s so many things right, so many problems right that have been created as a result of women’s, I think funny relationship with money. And I really do believe that I’m a living proof of that. Have you seen that? And like, not to mansplain this, but like, what’s your kind of what’s your advice, and having a more, like, objective perspective on maybe one, why you think that is, and how do we get over that?

 

Noah Kerner  27:36

Yeah, I’m not gonna give women advice that way like.

 

Reshma Saujani  27:41

What’s your advice?

 

Noah Kerner  27:42

Right, okay, well, then I will.

 

Reshma Saujani  27:43

I’m asking you for the your advice.

 

Noah Kerner  27:46

I’ve definitely seen in the data that women have more of a fear of investing than men do. Women tend to be more risk averse than than men. And you see, actually, you’ll see more of a propensity towards saving, right, than than investing. So that’s a reality and and I would say, look at it through the same lens that I was saying before, in terms of how we should all look at it, which is, you have to think about the need for independence, because you just don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow, and you have to think about investing as a long term endeavor, because the power of investing is time.

 

Reshma Saujani  28:20

I really like that, because I think that’s the point. I think, you know, we did, I did this great conversation around divorce, and I think what most people will say is, like, the things that they couldn’t have anticipated the things that happened in their life. And for a lot of women, divorce financially is like ruinous, especially for women, right? Even though emotionally might be the best thing that ever happened to them. But I think planning having this perspective of, like, I don’t know what can happen, like anything can happen, and so like, I need to have control over my finances and my money and understand it, and have knowledge and remove the fear that I may feel around it, because I need to kind of protect myself and the fact that I want to pursue that independence is probably good for my freedom.

 

Noah Kerner  29:04

Yeah, and that doesn’t mean you need to be doing everything like, obviously you split up things in a household or whatever, but you should know how to do the things that your partner does, right? I think that’s the fundamental thing. I think two people in a relationship should have shared knowledge, and by the way, both of them should be thinking about the other person as a potentially independent person, because you just don’t know.

 

Reshma Saujani  29:26

Yeah, it’s funny, like, my, my Nahal makes me go to our meetings with our financial advisor.

 

Noah Kerner  29:32

Yeah, smart.

 

Reshma Saujani  29:33

He won’t schedule them unless, like, you know, because I go, you just go and tell me what I need to know, right? Yeah. And now he just won’t do it. And I really appreciate that, right? Like, I really appreciate that, and I, you know, and him supporting kind of for me, getting over that hurdle that I have, you know, established in many ways for myself, over my fear, when we get to midlife, many of us feel like it’s just too late, like there was a period. I’m like, I’m not gonna I never. How to invest in the stock market. I’m not going to learn now. I’m super uncomfortable with money. I’m not going to get over my fear. Now give me a pep talk.

 

Noah Kerner  30:08

What if money could be a daily moment of hope and joy for you? So instead of thinking about like, you know, it is this really burdensome, difficult thing. What if it could be one of those things that you look forward to in the day, like a cup of coffee or a glass of red wine? That’s how acorns was constructed very, very intentionally. We constructed it so that when you come back to the product, because you’re doing these things regularly, your money’s always adding up. So every time you come back, if you’re using it properly, it actually can be a positive dopamine moment, like, so I would think about like, it that way, because a lot of the other advice would kind of just fall flat.

 

Reshma Saujani  30:49

I love this. Like, I have things like that kind of in my life. Sometimes, Instagram, sometimes, you know, my podcast listens like, oh, this made fun. I want to see how many people enjoyed this, or got something from this, and it is a dopamine hit. I didn’t, do not think about that. I don’t want to think about money that way. But like, if that could happen for me, like, that’d be amazing.

 

Noah Kerner  31:13

So that’s the idea, by the way, from tiny acorns, mighty oaks do grow. So it’s all about, like, what you know? What? If you can come back every day and see your money grow every day. That’s a good moment.

 

Reshma Saujani  31:23

It’s a good moment.

 

Noah Kerner  31:24

Not quite, it’s not quite a red wine moment, but it’s a good moment.

 

Reshma Saujani  31:27

It might be,, I don’t know, I might go from like, being afraid of money to just, you know, loving it.

 

Noah Kerner  31:32

Loving it.

 

Reshma Saujani  31:33

Thanks, Noah, this was a really, really, really great conversation. I feel like I learned so much, and people are gonna get a lot out of it. Thanks for your time.

 

Noah Kerner  31:40

Thanks for having me. Reshma, always good to spend time, and I enjoyed the conversation too.

 

Reshma Saujani  31:57

Noah Kerner is a CEO and chairman of Acorns, if you’re interested in learning more about Acorns, check out the link in our show notes. We’re so grateful to Acorns for being a sponsor of the show. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Sign up now and join the over 13 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com/midlife or download the acorns app to get started. Paid client endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier one compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns advisors, LLC and sec, registered investment advisor view important disclosures at acorns.com/slashmidlife. I’m your host. Reshma Saujani, our producer is Claire Jones. Our associate producer is Isaura Aceves.  This series is Sound Design by Ivan Kuraev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltuck.  Our senior supervising producer is Kristen Lepore, and our senior producer is Kryssy Pease. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neel.  Special thanks to our development team, Hoja Lopez, Jamela Zarha Williams and Alex McOwen. Executive Producers include me, Reshma Saujani, Stephanie Whittle Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review and let us know how you’re doing in midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this show at speakpipe.com/midlife. Follow My So Called Midlife, wherever you get your podcast, or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership, thanks so much for listening. See you next week, bye.