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Eric finds a book that includes a jaw-dropping piece of history from a prominent Black woman who lived in Minneapolis in the 1920s and 30s. Her words become the name of this podcast. This is the speech that inspired the title “Ghost of a Chance.”

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Yohuru Williams, Regina Williams, Eric, Melissa Townsend, Harry

Eric  00:07

You’re listening to Ghost Of A Chance from the Minnesota Star Tribune. This is the story of my search to find out what happened to Harry and Clementine Robinson. I’m Eric Roper.

 

Melissa Townsend  00:18

I’m Melissa Townsend.

 

Eric  00:19

This is bonus episode one.

 

Melissa Townsend  00:24

Hey there, Melissa, here. I want to thank you for listening to Ghost Of A Chance. The response to the podcast has been incredibly positive. We’re so glad you decided to spend some time with us and with Harry and Clementine Robinson. Now, since the podcast has come out, I’ve had a few conversations with people where they think we called this podcast ghost of a chance, because it has to do with ghosts like Harry and Clementine Robinson are the ghosts that we were getting to know. And I can see why they think that. But actually, you might remember from Episode Five that this title came from a woman named W. Gertrude Brown. She was a friend of Harry and Clementines. She was at that luncheon at Harry’s Little Dixie Chicken Shack in August of 1925.

 

Harry  01:13

Mr. J R Wilson entertained a group of 16 Sunday evening at the Little Dixie sandwich shop. The party met at the home of madam Robinson, and from there, went to the shop and had a delightful lunch. The dinner room was decorated with wonderful flowers.

 

Melissa Townsend  01:29

Just a month after that luncheon, W Gertrude Brown gave a speech at a conference of social workers. Eric found a copy of the speech one day when he was doing some research.

 

Eric  01:39

So I was at the Minnesota History Center one day looking at this paper that was written about the Minneapolis black community between the late 1800s and the 1920s and I flipped to the bibliography to see the sources. And one of the first sources was this speech.

 

Melissa Townsend  01:53

When Eric first told me this, I asked him why was W. Gertrude brown giving a speech to a conference of social workers, and he told me it was because she was at the center of the black community in Minneapolis.

 

Eric  02:07

So W. Gertrude Brown was the first head resident of the Phillis Wheatley settlement house. Phillis Wheatley was a very integral part of the city’s black community. There’s classes and recreation and activities for children, but there’s also classes and activities and discussions and other things for adults. They’re helping people with employment. They have rooms available for people who can’t get rooms in hotels, which was very common.

 

Melissa Townsend  02:34

Even though the settlement house was in the black community on the north side of Minneapolis. People from the South Side black community went there too.

 

Eric  02:41

Gertrude Brown, in one of her early writings, she explains. Quote, imagine what nice, quiet club meetings those were when only folding doors separated us from the gym, where a basketball game was in progress and that 18 piece band was rehearsing, it was impossible for the staff to get its dinner as one of the churches was using the kitchen end quote. So you can sort of get this sense that there’s a lot going on in this facility.

 

Melissa Townsend  03:09

So W. Gertrude Brown was in this unique position to have a clear view of what people in the black community in Minneapolis were experiencing. Historian Yahoo Williams told us this was happening for more and more black women across the country.

 

Yohuru Williams  03:24

Well, it’s not uncommon in that period nationally, because you have the convergence of several important social movements that make the ascendancy of women like W Gertrude brown possible.

 

Melissa Townsend  03:37

Yohuru, said one important social movement was the club movement. And that makes me think of all those clubs that Clementine was part of.

 

Yohuru Williams  03:45

That will really provide a sphere for black women, in particular, to exert much more agency, voice and power. And you’ll see that in the work of people like Alice Dunbar Nelson and certainly Gertrude brown here in the Twin Cities. And they do this in relationship, often with settlement houses, because it’s all about the protection of women and girls and then fighting race.

 

Melissa Townsend  04:09

And that’s what she wrote about in that speech she gave in 1925 when Eric eventually sat down to read it, he was kind of blown away.

 

Eric  04:18

She really connects a lot of dots. Really helps us see a big picture of the complex ways that people are being discriminated against and how this is impacting future generations through the children.

 

Melissa Townsend  04:31

It was also an important moment for him as he tried to understand what was happening back then.

 

Eric  04:37

For me, because I could put myself in the head of somebody who was advocating for civil rights and understand, what are they mostly concerned about? What are the things that are driving them? What are they trying to explain to people in the city?

 

Melissa Townsend  04:51

We’ll hear that speech after this quick break.

 

Melissa Townsend  05:04

I asked Eric, what was it about that phrase, ghost of a chance that stood out to you so much that you wanted it to be the title of the podcast?

 

Eric  05:16

This phrase, ghost of a chance comes at a very pointed moment in the speech, you can kind of hear her saying it like, Has it ever occurred you they don’t have a ghost of a chance, like she’s saying it’s not just that they haven’t made good, that there’s something about them not living up to their potential. It’s that they’re being held back from living up to their potential. They don’t even have a ghost of a chance of reaching their potential.

 

Melissa Townsend  05:44

Eric, hasn’t been able to find a recording of the speech, so we asked a woman named Regina Williams to voice it for us.

 

Regina Williams  05:51

Hi, my name is Regina Marie Williams. I’m an actor in the Twin Cities.

 

Melissa Townsend  05:56

Before we hit play on Regina’s interpretation of this speech, I want to share one note. As I said, before W Gertrude brown gave this speech in 1925 so the language she uses reflects that period of time. Okay, here is Regina Williams voicing a 1925 speech from W, G. Gertrude Brown.

 

Regina Williams  06:19

Unfortunately, wherever you find the Negro in large numbers, he is forced to be a problem because he is denied the opportunity to work and live and play as other folk. Although Minneapolis colored population is less than 6000 This is 127% increase over 1910 and like other cities of its size, it has many problems. If the population continues to increase at this rate and attention is not given to some of the handicaps under which he labors and which prevents him from becoming the kind of citizen you would like him to be, we will continue to have problems, and I fear more serious ones. I wish it were possible for me to tell you the many disadvantages under which the Negro labors in an urban community. Since that is impossible, I want to call your attention to a few of the most serious handicaps you six. Number one, health, the alarming death rate among Negro children, is a menace not only to the Negro but to the entire country, a group which is forced almost wholly, to accept the lowest paid and most unhealthy jobs in industry, to live in the least favorable neighborhood in the oldest and most unsanitary houses, is sorely in need of a strong and more Healthy younger generation. According to the United States mortality statistics for the birth registration area for 1922 the per 1000 deaths for the birth registration area was 70. The infant mortality rate among the white infants was 73 and among the colored infants was 110 the infant mortality rate in the total cities registration area in 1922 was 80 among colored infants. It was 127 it is obvious then that of the two divisions, the mortality rate among colored infants was from 50% to 70% higher than among whites. Let us consider the cities having the largest negro population. New York City has the largest negro population in the country. Its Negro infant mortality rate is more than twice that of the general population in the city, Philadelphia, with the second largest negro population in the country, had an infant mortality rate of Negroes of 135 in 1922 while that For the white infants was only 79 for Washington, DC, the city with the next largest population figures for age groups other than infants, secured for last year 1924 the death rate of colored children of one to five years in the City was 79 while that of whites was only 31 the death rate for colored children five to nine years was 26 while that for white children was 17. Apparently colored children up to nine years of age die twice as fast as white children of the same. Same age in Washington, the thing which contributed largely to mortality rate among Negro children is the economic status of the family. What the father receives in his pay envelope determines the section where the family will live, whether in a new or old house, and whether the mother and the little ones will be properly nourished. Because of the low wages received by the father, the mother has been forced to leave her children to help support the family. As the result, the children are neglected, irregularly fed, under nourished and easy prey to disease. Ignorance of the Negro parents is ignorance for which they are not responsible. Many have come from the south, where they have been deprived of this knowledge, and when advised regarding the clinic, are not responsive, quite often, because on inquiring, they find that no Negro physician or nurse is on duty, and they have not yet learned to have confidence in a representative of a group who has done them harm in other sections. Number two, housing, unsanitary, cold, damp, overcrowded homes in unsanitary locations, cheap homes which the Negro was forced to take because of his pay envelope, lack of modern conveniences on an unkept street without proper lights and drainage, or in the rear of another house away from the sunshine which God intended for all men, rich or poor, makes the housing situation a serious one. Quite a bit of trouble has been caused in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Pittsburgh recently, where the highest type of law abiding Negroes have moved in sections where whites live. Let us note some of the reasons which have caused members of our group to want to move to other sections, or to the so called white sections, excluding the fact that the Negro should have the same living privilege as other folks and should be permitted to buy wherever he can afford to buy. They desire to live in sections where one can be assured of street improvements, modern conveniences, sanitary advantages, fire and police, protection and etc. The fact that these things are lacking in most sections inhabited by the Negro is the greatest reason for him to wish other localities, the high rent, which is all out of proportion to what others pay, also prevents the Negro from securing proper Homes.

 

Regina Williams  12:58

Number three, employment, lack of opportunity to train for skilled labor, and the placement of same and the failure on the part of our white friends to give the Negro equal chance affects his standard of living. I was asked last fall if there were not some wealthy Negroes who could give a neat some towards a gym for our group? My answer was no. The question may be asked, why hasn’t the Negro accumulated more? Has it ever occurred to you that he hasn’t a ghost of a chance? Have you ever stopped to think that every real money making Avenue is closed to him. In our Minneapolis, we have one school nurse, five stenographers, 31 postal clerks, four social workers, two stock girls, one bookkeeper, 21 barbers. A number of men are in the Pullman service, and quite a few men and women are in domestic service. We have no school teachers, no city nurses, few opportunities to work at skilled labor in factories, departments, stores, nor the many other fields of work which our white sisters have. The majority of the Negroes have made good on these jobs. A few haven’t. The injustice of the whole situation is the result which comes from one of our groups not making good. The employer states he will not try another Negro because the one he had did not make good. How many whites are fired every day because of inefficiency, but are they branded with the fact that no whites are wanted because others have failed, no that applicant is given a chance, and that is the only thing for which we are pleased. Needing a chance for an honest living. Don’t misunderstand me, we are not asking any special favors, nor wanting you to take unprepared folks, but give those who are prepared an equal chance to work and live.

 

Regina Williams  15:23

Questionnaire sent out to 250 firms by the Minneapolis National Association for the Advancement of Colored People revealed that 51 firms had employed colored workers. 29 had not. Four firms did not answer. 36 firms were at that time employing colored workers. 15 firms were not at the time employing colored workers. In replying to the question of whether their colored employees had been satisfactory, six replied unsatisfactory. Nine replied satisfactory in the response to the question covering their willingness to accept any colored workers for employment provided they are honest, industrious, reliable and efficient, 17 firms replied in the affirmative. Six firms replied in the negative. 13 firms were evasive. 20 were non committal. A white youth and a negro youth graduated from the same college. The only difference in the two. The Negro graduated with honors, but the white youth became principal of one of the high schools in a certain city at a salary of $4,600 the Negro youth was forced to return to the south to teach at a salary of $1,200 because of his color, he could not find employment in this section. Negro high school girls and boys are coming out each year with no opportunity to get employment other than domestic work. Because of this alarming situation, they are becoming discouraged, and it is very hard to induce them to continue even through high school. We also suffer greatly from employment bureaus failing to place Negro applicants you there are many types of Negroes, and sometimes you and I severely criticize those who are fair. When we find them, as one would term it, passing, we will note one of our group here and there, working like other folk, clerking in stores, banks, working in exclusive shops, executives of prominent organizations, officials of hotels and members of large bands and receiving living wages. They are liked by their employers and Associates and have wonderful opportunities for advancement. It isn’t because the Negro likes this sort of thing. For every opportunity he has off the job, he is seeking his own. Often he is forced to accept social courtesies from your group, because if his refusals are too frequent, you might suspect, and if you knew, he would be minus a job if the Negro had an honest chance for employment, do you think he would resort to this? No, but he is forced to do this because of being denied an equal opportunity for work, lack of opportunity for advancement, it makes no difference how educated, honest and courteous your Negro bank messenger is. He is not in line for promotion. The skilled laborer whom the foreman depends upon when he is away from the job and feels absolutely sure that things will be run in fine order, cannot expect to be promoted to that position. The Negro who washes the taxi cabs can drive them wherever the boss wishes, but cannot expect to become one of the drivers. Regardless of how learned and capable a negro postal clerk may be, he can never hope to become a postmaster, the Negro girl who does case work and handles her cases as efficiently as any other worker must remain a case worker. She is denied the promotion to district secretaryship. From this you get some idea of the injustice which is heaped upon us. Number four, lack of law enforcement. Dives and dens are permitted to function, immoral houses in numbers, dance halls, unsupervised girls under age attend without the least interference. Drunk, drunken men and women are common pictures on the street. The familiar sight of the bottle containing the white fluid which is eating the very souls out of many homes are the trials of the neglected neighborhood. Number five, recreation, a leisure time program is absolutely necessary for the happiness of any community. The lack of opportunity for wholesome recreation has forced the Negro adult to the public, unsupervised dance hall, to the undesirable clubs and street corners. Very seldom does a man get in trouble on the job, but mostly during his leisure. Hence, much care should be given to the planning of leisure time programs which are essential in keeping him fit.

 

Regina Williams  20:55

Statistics show, wherever there is a good recreational program, the number of delinquency cases is decreased in most communities, gymnasium, swimming and camping facilities are denied our group. If these features make for a better white boy who has more pleasant environment, why shouldn’t it be essential for the Negro boy whose home quite often only consists of two rooms, the Negro boy, a girl, is refused membership in the YMCA and the YWCA unless it is a branch. He is also refused membership in a scout troop. He is permitted to have a color troop, but is not given the same camp privileges or opportunities for advancement as the other Scouts. The playground Recreation Association of America reports 52 community centers for colored adults, 178 playgrounds, three settlement houses with colored personnel. May I plead with the social workers to be instrumental in making these problems less by assisting in giving more publicity to our good deeds than evil ones. Teach the white child that the little black boy is a Negro and not an and that his baby brother is not a pick and any but just a baby. These terms hurt us more than you can ever imagine, and when omitted, help the good feeling between us when you have an opportunity to portray the Negro select the better types of our group as the Topsy type does not represent us any more than the poorest white person represents you. Avoid using jokes or poems containing the word and darky. I am confident that our good friends would save us this embarrassment if they only knew how it hurt so often things are said and done of which we do not approve, but we hear, see and say nothing. It isn’t because we have not noticed or that we do not object, but our silence is only kept because we are hoping and praying that our good friends will catch the spirit and come to our rescue, open up opportunities for better health, housing, employment, law enforcement and recreation, and you will find a new Negro and a better Negro who will pay you large dividends in good citizenship. I feel that all the problems in the Negro group in an urban community can be summed up in a lack of opportunity to work and play. The Negro is not understood, and few are willing to take a little time and learn about him.

 

Regina Williams  24:03

When you know a fellow, when you get to know a fellow, know his joys and his cares, when you come to understand him and the burdens he bears, when you learn the fight he’s making and the troubles in his way. When you find that he is different than you thought him yesterday, you find that his faults are trivial and there’s not so much to blame in the brother that we jeered at when you only knew his name, we are quick to see the blemish in the distant neighbor style, we can point out all his errors and may sneer at him the while and our prejudice sharpen and our hate more violent grow. Often talk about the failure of the man we do not know. But when drawn a little closer, and our hands and shoulders touch, we find the traits we hated don’t really amount to much.

 

Melissa Townsend  25:18

That was actor Regina Williams voicing a speech from W. Gertrude Brown. We should note that she did not write that poem that you heard at the end there.

 

Eric  25:28

That was a poem by Edgar Albert Guest, who was an American poet who was born in Britain.

 

Melissa Townsend  25:34

Gertrude Brown was head resident of the Phillis Wheatley settlement house for 13 years, from 1924 until she resigned in 1937 she died in 1949 in a car accident. Ghost Of A Chance is reported by Eric Roper and written and produced by me Melissa Townsend. Our executive producer is Jenni Pinkley. Our editor is MaryJo Webster. Fact checking by Eric Roper and MaryJo Webster. Our contributing editors are Star Tribune managing editor, Maria Reeve and Star Tribune editor and senior vice president Suki Dardarian. Legal review from Randy Lebedoff. The art for our show comes from Anna Boone and Brock Kaplan. Special thanks to Kyndell Harkness, Zoë Jackson, Laura McCallum, James Eli Shiffer, Nancy Yang, Casey Darnell, Laura Ewan, Tane Danger and members of the local community who served as our advisors.

 

CREDITS  26:32

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