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On today’s episode, Meghan sits down with Cassandra Morales Thurswell, founder of the viral beauty brand Kitsch. They have an authentic conversation about turning a passion into a business—from Cassie’s early days handcrafting hair ties to building one of the largest self-funded, woman-owned beauty brands in the country. The two discuss how grit, intentional design, and a scrappy mindset were essential in transforming a humble start into a thriving global business.

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Main Theme: “Crabbuckit” words and music by Kevin Deron Brereton (c) Universal Songs of Polygram Int., Inc. on behalf of Universal Music Publishing Canada (BMI) / 100% interest for the Territory.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Next Guest, Megan, Cassandra Thurswell, Stephanie Wittels Wachs

Cassandra Thurswell  00:00

I feel like everybody’s in such a hurry to be successful when you’re bootstrapped, you actually can’t you have to be very slow. You have to be very responsible every single opportunity that comes across your plate. You need to make sure that it’s profitable.

 

Megan  01:39

I’m Megan, and this is Confessions Of A Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. Okay, so I think you guys know I really like being in the garden and running a business. Funny enough, it’s a lot like gardening. Some seasons are for blooming. Others are for planting seeds, but most of the work, especially early on, it’s tending to the soil. It’s the foundation. It’s what everything is going to grow out of. You gotta make sure the roots are strong enough to carry what’s coming next. And this is especially true when you’re bootstrapping a business, running a business independent of any investors, private equity, VC, you are doing it on your own, you have to be so intentional and careful with all of your choices, and you can’t expect a harvest to happen overnight. That’s impossible. And look, this can be challenging, especially in a culture that praises growth at all cost. You are in the race to succeed, and success looks like numbers. That’s what you’re after, but financing your own company, forces a very different kind of rhythm. It invites you to choose patience over speed. And guess what? Eventually, with a strong vision and all of that care on the details, oh, that garden will grow.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  03:20

I was writing journal entries from the future as if they were already happening. There’s ones where I’m like, you know, We’re the fastest growing brand at Target. We weren’t in Target yet, and we just found out this last fall that we were a top 25 fastest growing brand in all of beauty.

 

Megan  03:40

Cassandra Thurswell, I call her Cassie. Is the founder and CEO of kitsch, a leading brand in the hair care and beauty industry, but what I discovered during our conversation is that this is a founder who hasn’t taken a single dollar of investment capital ever. Cassie has led with tenacity, consistency and a deep understanding of what her customers really want. And she created kitsch thinking about your hair care routine from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep. She did it thoughtfully, intentionally, and she saw the products we were already using, and said, Wait a minute, how can we do that better? That question, that single question, led her to her multi million dollar valuation, and that’s why I genuinely I can’t wait for you to hear her thoughts on starting small, how she got to where she is today, and how we met. So, so, so many years before all of this happened, let’s go Cass. I was just texting with Heather.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  04:43

She texted me last night. She was like, Good luck tomorrow.

 

Megan  04:46

No, I love that. I literally, I said, I need to run. I’m gonna go do the interview with Cassie right now. She’s like, tell her I said hi.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  04:53

By the way, I love, love that you call me Cassie. Oh, I know. No, I love it because, like, there’s such a small handful of people that call me Cassie, and it’s like my immediate family and Meghan Markle.

 

Megan  05:11

It’s like Meg or em. It’s the same thing. It’s how we met all those years ago.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  05:16

It’s so sweet. I mean, it’s we met in a very sliding glass door moments of our lives. I think, you know.

 

Megan  05:23

Yeah, it’s true. I was auditioning, and your cousin, one of my best friends, Heather, and I was like, I just need some style. I need my closet to look good. She goes. My cousin Cassie could help. Yeah, she does that. She has great style. And you come into my little house that I was renting, and I remember my closet. Do you remember that closet door was within the bathroom?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  05:46

Yes, it’s like, we’ll call it Megan. We’ll call it a bungalow.

 

Megan  05:50

We’ll be chic. It was, it was a bungalow. And, yeah, you had to walk through my bedroom, past my bed, past the shower in the sink, which were right there and the toilet, and then right across from that was the door that opened into my very small closet, to which I said, Cassie, can you help, like, make this stylish and give me a vibe to which you said.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  06:13

Yes, I love this, because I feel like this is a perfect example of, you know, all of the things that I said yes to, I was like, Yeah, I’m sure I’m a stylist. I will be a stylist now I’m a stylist. Yes, yes, I will add it to my resume. Of all the things that I that I aspire to be in life, and I had no idea what I was doing, but I really enjoyed our time together.

 

Megan  06:41

It was so fun. Honestly, it was also and this is pre suits for me. This is really early days when I was auditioning, and I just remember literally going through things and using, okay, well, there are a couple staples that you need. This is important because it speaks to even though it wasn’t the thing that you did when you could add it to your resume. You talk about not having a strategy, but always hustling Yes, and being able to say, Okay, well, I don’t necessarily know how to do this, but I’m gonna figure out a way to be good at it. And when you called me and said, I just found the best pair of black patent leather […] wedge flats, and they’re $200 I remember going, that’s as much as I pay. I cannot. You’re like, I’m I promise you you are going to wear, I promise you do. You know what’s so funny? Because, of course, I wore those shoes till the red wore out. I wore those shoes on my final audition for suits that I when I booked the part.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  07:38

Oh, see, you know what? I am so intuitive, I wanted to put you in these power suits. And little did I know, you know, it was an echo from the future. I had suits in mind, but it was just not a physical suit. It was the show suits.

 

Megan  07:53

Yeah, it was a vision board of a different guy. What year are we talking about, when we met?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  07:58

So that would have been 16 years ago so 2009?

 

Megan  08:04

And that is at the same time I remember you talking about making hair ties, and that, of course, has now evolved into Kitsch, which is pretty extraordinary. And the accolades that not just the brand and the company have, but you as a female entrepreneur have are incredible. Before we get to how you got there, where did that entrepreneurial spark begin? And I you talked about a little bit this at other interviews. But for people who don’t know, let’s take us all the way back.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  08:34

All the way back. It’s funny, because, like, I never thought any of these, like little things in my life were, I don’t know foreshadowing for what would happen in my future, but my stepdad was an orthodontist, and my mom and my stepdad were in business together, and they offered us the opportunity to make an allowance to make retainers. And I think this is my first memory of being very entrepreneurial. They created a little workshop in our garage in Wisconsin where they set up all of the materials and tools to make retainers. Oh my gosh. And I loved getting the little plaster mold of someone’s mouth with someone’s name on it, and it had all of their wants. I want it in pink with glitter and and I love this idea that I was like an elf and Santa’s workshop. That is amazing. This was an on their Christmas list, and I get to create this item, and then every single night, this person is going to put in this retainer, and I get to be part of that journey, and that was just like I thought that was so exciting and cool that I got to be part of it.

 

Megan  09:47

Wow, yeah and even how engaged you are with the customer service experience and listening to your customers, that speaks to the exact same thread that you’re pulling on from all those years ago where you’re saying it’s personal. Well, this is something you have on your body. This is something that you’re investing in, and you get to be part of that story of the thing that they have with them every day.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  10:08

Absolutely. I mean, I think the best way to put it is from, from day one, it was always the kit. Has always been people centric. We’ve always been people centric. You know, when most people start a business, say, write a business plan, but I really it was just like, I want to make great products that people love and reorder. Because I really genuinely believe that reorders are what make a business. That really tells you I value what you’ve created to the point where I need it again. That is not a business plan, but it is an ethos. Business plans get rewritten every single year. Your ethos does not and so I think for me, it was building a business off of that ethos. It’s genuinely of service. It’s that same, you know, tween that’s making retainers in the garage.

 

Megan  11:01

In the garage in Wisconsin, yeah.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  11:03

Hoping that I’ll be, you know, creating this great experience for the customer that will somehow impact their life for the better.

 

Megan  11:13

Yes, it’s of service. It’s intuitive, it’s listening. I mean, I think part of it is as you talk about the ethos being something that is evergreen, that can be applied to a lot of different modalities. Why did it start with hair ties? How did it start with hair ties, outside of the fact that you have such gorgeous, epic, legendary hair.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  11:35

Oh my gosh, it was so big today, by the way, I had, I was testing out a new product, and I was like, I have to just start over. I had to, like, go and wet it all down and start over. Um, but thank you very much for saying that. Um, it started with hair ties because I could hand make it. It was something that I could be in complete control over. I was making the packaging. I was hand making the product. I was the manufacturer. I was the salesperson. I was a hunt. It was 100% me. I could make 10 pieces, 10 samples, go out, sell them, come back, make 20 more. And that’s why it started with hair ties and.

 

Megan  12:13

Well, actually, let’s just talk about the handmade part, because kitsch, even the name, the namesake, that’s so much a part of it. Can you talk to that for a second.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  12:20

Yeah so when I was starting kitsch, I was thinking about, what am I doing? I’m sitting on the floor my apartment and making these hair elastics. They’re, you know, kind of silly and fun and cute. And I was like, it’s kind of kitschy. And I was like, what if I would just call it Kitsch and and that’s how we came up with the name. But if you look at the logo, which, you know, I think I’ve been through seven different logos, and the first six were designed by me. But finally, have a true graphic designer. But if you look at the logo now how kit has evolved as we’ve taken these very kitschy items, scrunchies and hair towels and all these, like silly things, and we’ve refined them and made them beautiful. So that’s why the logo is in this like phonetic esthetic.

 

Megan  13:10

Yes, and also probably much easier to trademark.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  13:13

So much easier to trademark, and now it can actually be printed on a packaging, because my other ones were, like, all swirly and crazy, and it was just really hard, and all of whatever that’s no.

 

Megan  13:23

But the complications of it again, you know, I mean all of that stuff as you’re figuring it out, I think it’s just so important for people to hear that, because you’re bootstrapping it, yeah, and not even knowing that, something that people oftentimes, when they create their business plan and they have their strategic roadmap, and they’re going to approach this investor, and they’ve already thought about who they’re going to they’re going to sell it to, and they reverse engineer. You said, okay, I’ve saved up this money. 30k right? $30,000 Yeah, yeah. And that is how you said I’m going to go forward with this.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  13:54

It’s time, I mean. And this was my eighth business that I started.

 

Megan  13:57

Let’s talk about some of the ones before.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  13:59

It’s not including Meghan Markle stylist. So yeah, the big one on the resume? No, I had, I had so many more businesses before kitsch. My mom and I had a boutique together, and then I had a jewelry line. I had scarves with inspirational quotes on it. I had my own website, my so my mom and I, we had a boutique, and I really wanted to have my, this is one of my first businesses. I really wanted to have my own business that wasn’t affiliated with my mom’s. And I was like, You know what, Mom, I would love to take all of these products that you have in the store, and I want to make my own website, and I want to sell everything. I want to do e commerce, but it cost so much money to build a website at that point, there was no like plug and play. And I said, I know you saved money for each of us to get married. I would love to take that money and create a website with it and start my own business. It was called cassiescotour.com.

 

Megan  14:57

Oh, do you still have it? Do you still have the domain?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  14:59

No. Oh, definitely No, someone, maybe someone, maybe someone else can do something great with it. I will bequeath it to whoever, whoever wants it, no.

 

Megan  15:08

Or just start to use it now and have it auto direct to kids.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  15:11

Oh my gosh, great idea. But yeah, so that’s a couple of the businesses. You know, I had a spray tan business when I was out here for a while too.

 

Megan  15:21

I forgot about that.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  15:23

I had a machine. It was actually a great investment. The return on investment was very quick. But, I mean, I had failed so many times, and I got a job working at a private label jewelry company, and I saw the whole private label world, and I was like, Oh, this is really interesting. It really takes a lot of the risk out of inventory. You know, it’s essentially you get, you design a piece, you show it to a buyer. They place an order for it, then they produce, you deliver it, then you get paid in 30 days.

 

Megan  15:54

And so and when you’re saying private label, you’re talking about, at this point, you’re designing for jewelry, for forever 21 for hot topic for Urban Outfitters. How old were you at this time?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  16:04

So I was 23, 24 so this is when we’d connected.

 

Megan  16:10

Yeah, I didn’t know you were doing that at the same time you were doing it all, doing a lot of stuff.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  16:15

But yeah, so, so that’s how, that’s how I got into the private label world, and that’s how I funded Kitsch.

 

Stephanie Wittels Wachs  16:22

So in those early days of Kitsch as you’re going door to door and getting customer feedback and pivoting as necessary to make sure the packaging that you’re making in your apartment and the hair ties you’re making your apartment are all what you feel will be of service for people in their day to day. How do you get over that next hurdle? What’s that first break that you have that gets you at a completely different level, the baby step, or the giant leap.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  19:07

We’ll call them minor stones.

 

Megan  19:11

Someone said, instead of milestones, it’s inch stones.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  19:13

Yeah, I feel like everybody’s in such a hurry to be successful, right, to like, get there, to make these like, big things, when you’re bootstrapped, you actually can’t you have to be very slow. You have to be very responsible every single opportunity that comes across your plate. You need to make sure that it’s profitable. And so bootstrapping was an incredible opportunity for me and my husband, Jeremy, who you know, Jeremy, to really be slow and thoughtful with our growth. And I’m not going to call all of our decisions were very strategic, because sometimes we had to say yes to certain opportunities because they were the most financially practical. And so yes. The first opportunity was Nordstrom kids. Were we a kids brand no but it was Nordstrom kids, and we made it out of the apartment. I had a LTL, which means less than truckload, truck come up to the apartment, and I’m loading these cartons out, processing orders.

 

Megan  20:15

How many was that first order?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  20:18

I think it was like 2025, cartons. But I it was a $13,000 order, huge at the time, manufactured out of my living room. But still Just doing hair ties. More hair accessories at this point, elastics. You know, we’re really getting into hair accessories. And I remember reaching out to a buyer on LinkedIn from Ulta, and just saying, you know, I’ve got these really interesting new hair accessories. I don’t know if you’d give us a chance. And I sent her the catalog, and she responded, and she was like, you know, there’s some interesting pieces here. Are you going to be at cosmoprof next month, or something.

 

Megan  20:56

Which is like an expo in the beauty industry?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  20:58

I literally had to go Google, what is Cosmo Prof? Because I had no idea it was way too expensive. It was like, $20,000 for a booth or something like that. And I was like, can’t do that. And I was like, how much is a plane ticket? And I was like, you know, we’re not showing in cosmoprof, but I would love to take you out to lunch. There’s a great Mexican restaurant right outside. I’d be happy to, like, set up a whole thing. And she said, Yes. She said, Yes. And so then Tula was really young at this point, and she was sick, that’s your daughter, yeah, Tula and I was like, Jeremy, you have to go. And so my husband went, did the whole meeting. She was so impressed, so excited. She gave us one shelf on an end cap in a small amount of stores. And it did so well that she asked us to pitch for a two foot space. And then it was like, I remember one buyer in particular. And she was like, you know, these hair ties are so great for my hair, and I knew that they were better for your hair. That was part of the sales pitch. What else can you be doing in hair? And I thought about it, and I was like, Okay, what if I created a basically a new category. Is hair care as a lifestyle? It’s the pillowcase you sleep on. It’s the tools you use in your hair. It’s pretty much everything that wasn’t shampoo and conditioner.

 

Megan  22:17

Oh, that extra wide headband for when you’re washing your face is one of the best products.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  22:22

Oh, thank you. I love that thing. It is a household staple because my daughter has long hair, my husband has very curly hair, and we all love the spa headband, but yeah, and so it’s everything that that interacts with your hair, from the moment you wake up to the moment you go sleep. And we just kept thinking about all these other things, and how can we be creating a better experience for the customer, for products that they were kind of already using, but let’s make better versions of it. It wasn’t rocket scientist, right? It wasn’t rocket scientists. It wasn’t rocket science. It was just like you. It was thoughtful.

 

Megan  23:01

Well, and also down to the core of what you have always liked doing. So you look at the evolution of that, and for me, I was like, I’ve been making preserves. I’ve been giving fruit baskets. I’d love to garden before I before I had a house and a garden like this in my bungalow, I had a lemon tree, and in a way, all these years later, because that’s been the undercurrent of how I like to show up, for people to have that still be ingrained in how I show up through the business, where the hero product really starts as a fruit spread, right? It really all. I think it’s interesting in talking to so many different entrepreneurs, and a lot of the origin stories are women who do not come from a lot do not have a big MBA, I didn’t go to business school, Yeah, but you’re recognizing what there are needs for, and you’re also saying, what do I want to share in the world, and how do I want to share it, thoughtfully and intentionally and also with a Micro Focus on detail. And I think that is the undercurrent through how you’ve built to where you are. Talk about the evolution to the next step, and then the evolution of you from founder and wife to founder wife and mom.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  24:11

Yeah, I think it’s really interesting as founders, because there really is, I think that there are three stages. There’s founder stage, where you are in this, like, very scrappy, like, you need to do every role so that you know who to hire, right? And it’s so important, like, how do you want this done? Can that person really execute, you know, the way that you’re envisioning it? And then then you’re able to, like, create the job description, and not through Chat GPT, it’s like, this is how I want the job done.

 

Megan  24:42

This how I’m doing the job. Yes, so I’m gonna actually write down what I’m doing so I can bring in the person that can take this off the plate.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  24:49

And then hopefully they know how to do the job even better. You know, that’s the goal. And then there’s the entrepreneur stage, where then you’re in build you’re in Build Mode, and that’s kind of like the post. A Nordstrom experience, Nordstrom kids experience, where then I’m like, okay, all my bills are paid. What’s next now it’s not just an idea anymore, like, what’s the next product? What’s the next retailer? How do we get to this next place? And that was a really interesting phase for me, because that is when I had my daughter. What year was that? So that would have been like, 2014 Wow. I can’t believe you have a 10 year old. I’m so crazy that is wild. And she’s the best. She’s, oh, she’s also a mini entrepreneur, too.

 

Megan  25:37

Oh, okay, awesome.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  25:38

But, but yeah, and that was, that was actually really tricky for me. You know, being four years into the business, and that was this entrepreneurial stage where you have to get more strategic, and you’re doing a lot of hiring and trying to figure out, like, business infrastructure. I’ve got the private label arm of my business that is slowly dwindling away because people are wanting the brand more. The brand is being celebrated. And then, you know, I had my daughter, I thought everything was going to be just so easy. I would continue to just go on as my normal self and breastfeed at the office and do all of these things. And I had a real reality check, and I had some really intense postpartum anxiety, and my husband really had to step in. And this is when, you know, we were really growing quickly, and it was such a crippling growth period for me. It was so hard. I felt like I wasn’t good at anything. And I have one child, so I can only speak for my experience with my one daughter, but I I think it wasn’t until seven, until she was seven years old, where I was like, I’m okay.

 

Megan  26:52

Oh, wow. What do you think it took you to get to the the seven year window of I’m okay?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  26:59

I think it was her ability to really because, you know, when they’re infants, the way they communicate is crying. And I think I had a lot of stuff that came up, and I was like, the crying really hurt my heart. It just was so hard for me to hear her cry, and I wanted to be there for her, but I had this business that’s growing rapidly, and I feel like I’m letting the business down if I’m not there every day.

 

Megan  27:25

But Cassie, that’s so fascinating, because up until then, and before you had had Kitsch, and before you had had your daughter, you were kind of winging it. I was winging it on all the other things you didn’t need to your self, identity, or your sense of self or purpose wasn’t tied up in being good at all the things. It was being good enough figuring it out and that at some point I’m so curious to you have this pinnacle of success with the business. I’m assuming at that point you probably have some investors too.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  27:55

No, no, get you still bootstrapped today?

 

Megan  27:57

You’re kidding me.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  27:59

No, not.

 

Megan  28:03

I’m shocked.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  28:04

We were profitable year one. I mean, that’s what happens when you don’t hire a graphic designer. Logo six iterations. No, I’m not.

 

Megan  28:14

I’m just, I’m so blown away. You talk about inspiring that is so inspiring that you’ve been able to maintain that for so long. But you know, nevertheless, based on what you’re saying, that’s just so wild to me, that so much of how you navigated all those years, preceding the business and preceding being a mom, you didn’t have that feeling. And there is something about I will say for myself, like, especially when they’re baby babies. And yes, the crime before I was mom, and I’ve always wanted to be a mom. Before I was a mom, I was like, oh gosh, I’m gonna give a speech with a baby on my hip. Yeah, I had a whole vision. I was like, I’m just gonna and then you fast forward. Granted, I had a lot of external things happening by the time I had both pregnancies and both babies, but it was not the way I envisioned it. But so for you, that’s a lot, from infancy to toddler time all the way to the age of seven, and then at seven, something shifted.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  29:12

Yeah, she just she was so she was such a great communicator. And I really felt like it was more than just, like, an energetic bond. It was this real. At seven, she was, like, just so wildly smart and capable of communicating what she wanted and needed, and the whole dynamic, it made me feel like I was doing a good job. So what’s interesting, though, I’m dyslexic. I didn’t know that I’m dyslexic. When I was really young, I failed at the most foundational thing that all kids learn how to do, and but I prevailed right I can read. And I mean, now I’m a ferocious reader. So this idea of failure for me is. So it was one of those things where it was, it ended up being a superpower of mine, because failing at such a young age, at something so foundational that it gave me this ability to not be so, so scared of failure, but then also knowing that I have this and what I like to call sensible optimism. I can get through this. I can get through it. And when I had her, even though I was in such a dark place, I continued to have that sensible optimism. I know I can get through this. This is dark, this is heavy. I will come out stronger. And, you know, I did a lot of like Byron Katie’s work, and again, like digging deep in my toolbox of meditation and all these different things. But just like everybody talks about, this was a minor stone. It was so important for me. It taught me how to hold boundaries with people. And you know, when I started catch I was 25 years old, I was very immature. I was very I did not know how to manage people. I did not know how to manage, you know, being a parent, and when she turned seven, I had done so much work around that I, like, woke up one day and I was like, Ah, I’ve arrived. I know what I’m doing. I know I’m not perfect, but  I know where I’m going.

 

Megan  31:20

Yes, well, and again, this speaks to what you’ve said about not always having a strategy, but always having a vision.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  31:27

Yes.

 

Megan  31:28

So being able to see that North Star of where you can trust that you’re going to be even on the darkest days. But you know, as we go back to Tula, and you said that she has this entrepreneurial spirit, for me, it’s so important that my kids see me as a working mom. Now, if that’s important to you, if you’re saying you see in her that same spirit of you making these retainers, which I’m just picturing you in this garage putting glitter in a pink retainer, and someone walking in and going, what have you just done? It’s amazing. I’m assuming tool is not making retainers. What is the entrepreneurial spirit that is coming out of her right now?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  32:02

Well, she really wanted to buy something around the holidays last year, and I said, you know what, Tula, you have to come up with a business idea of something that you can make and sell. I’ll give you a loan for all the supplies that you need. I’ll work with you. We’ll make a little plan of what what product will be. How are you going to sell it, how much you’re going to sell it for? And I’ll work with you on this. And she came up with this great idea to make candy kabobs for Halloween. And so she bought all these different kinds of candies, and like peeps and like all this stuff, and she stuck them on a kebab stick and wrapped them up, and she took a basket and went out on Larchmont Boulevard, and she was like, really meek and quiet. She’s like, Candy kabobs. And was like, so she was so little, and so then I was like, hey, you know, you really want to sell these. You got to talk loud. You need to stand in the middle of the street and you tell people why they need these candy kabobs. And it was the best, it was one of the best things that we’ve ever done as parents. And now she’s just like, she’ll be like, I want something, I’m gonna go make some things. So now she doesn’t have to take loans anymore. She has a savings account. She goes up every time she wants something, she goes and she’ll think of a new idea and go sell it out on Larchmont. But we always tell her she has to give some of it to charity. I wish it was self initiated, that she has to give something to charity. But we have her pick charity that she wants to donate a portion of all of her sales as a mitzvah. And so when the LA fires happened, she was like, Mom, I have a great idea. We have a lemon tree. And she’s like, I’m gonna pick all these lemons, and I’m going to sell the lemons on Larchmont and just donate 100% of it to the firefighters. She made $800.

 

Megan  33:54

Oh my gosh.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  33:56

For the LA firefighters.  Everybody was so giving. She was just so proud of herself.

 

Megan  34:03

I’m proud of her. That’s amazing. And, you know, I love a lemon.

 

Stephanie Wittels Wachs  35:54

I know in some of your previous interviews, you’ve talked about being a people pleaser, so how hard was that for you to compartmentalize when you can intellectualize what you should be doing as an entrepreneur, but emotionally, it’s a very different experience.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  36:30

The people pleasing in my interpersonal life was complicated. I mean, I think that that, you know, even with my daughter, I didn’t set boundaries with her because I wanted her to like me. And with employees, you know, pre having kids, I had a hard time, you know, giving good feedback, because I wanted them to like me, you know. And that is more of where the people pleaser aspect was not healthy. And so then when I broke that down, and I channeled it into something that was more appropriate in like, you know, of service to a customer, and, you know, giving great customer service for the brand to our retail partners in all these different ways, but learning how to have healthy boundaries. I think, you know, that was, that was a big shift for me.

 

Megan  37:19

So in all of that, how to really, really clearly define and refine what are the things to be taken off of your plate now, and what are the things that you don’t want someone to take off your plate because you’re like, No, by doing that, you’re removing the thing that brings me joy. Has that evolved from where you started to where you are now?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  37:38

Yeah, so I once read which is really fascinating, and something to keep in the back of your mind, that if the founder becomes the CEO, and the business continues to grow, what they were best at starts to become like their most difficult area of the business. I’m writing it down. The idea is really interesting. It’s something I keep watch on all the time. And what we do is we develop really great products. I love being like, very hands on with the PD team. But if you have the CEO title, you have to keep running the business, and so you’re now part time in the area that you were the best at at one point, and so I need to make sure that I have the strongest product developers, and I had to release control over it too. You’re better at this than me. I will let you do that. You get my vision. Let’s keep going.

 

Megan  38:36

Yes, and also finding those people who are able to pull up a stool into your head and really understand your taste level and be able to do the product development. The way that you would do it if you could, so that you can let it go, so you can let it go and you can still sleep at night.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  38:49

Yes.

 

Megan  38:49

Because I think so much of it is being in a tremendous level of trust. You’re entrusting, as you grow, so many other people to carry out the vision that you had. And so you know in that, what are you comfortable sharing that were maybe some of the mistakes, that if you could do it differently, you would adjust. Because if so much of your ethos is about being of service, and even though you haven’t done as many podcasts or panels, doing this now is such an act of service for young entrepreneurs who are starting a business to be able to know, oh, I don’t have to do that and that she would have done that, that and that differently. Is there any insight you want to share?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  39:30

I mean, there’s so many mistakes that I made the leadership aspect. I wish I would have educated myself a little bit more on that earlier, because I think I read a lot of management books, but they were so old school, and I think I was a little immature about this. Like, okay, read a management book. I know how to do it, you know? And it was like, I would do like, a pretty immediate about face, and I’d be like, let’s do this. You know, we’re implementing all of these new strategies right away, and I think there’s real power in having endorsements from your team. And you know, I have these ideas, I would love to get your feedback from leadership teams. Specifically, I would love to get your feedback on these. How do you think we can improve these ideas? And I think that that is something that we do now, and it’s extremely beneficial, learning how to run highly effective meetings. Some mistakes that I’ve made.

 

Megan  40:31

It doesn’t have to be mistakes. I mean, mistakes are great because they’re great confessions, but also just advice either.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  40:36

I mean, you know, I can give some advice, so definitely that’s sensible optimism, knowing that, like, it’s not about avoiding all the hard problems. It’s about knowing that you’ll get through them and continuing to focus on, like, what are you wanting the outcome to be? Brene Brown talks about this all the time. What does done look like? What does it look like when it’s done? That’s what you have to focus on. And then some other things, like, I do a lot of micro intentions. I have been doing this since 2018 I started a journal, and it was, I love journaling. I was writing journal entries from the future as if they were already happening.

 

Megan  41:19

Have you saved all the journals?

 

Cassandra Thurswell  41:20

Oh, it’s incredible. It’s like, Megan, I can’t even tell you how, how insane some of these things are. Like, there’s just, there’s ones where I’m like, you know, We’re the fastest growing brand at Target. And I wrote it like, in 2019 we weren’t in Target yet, and we just found out this last fall that we were a top 25 fastest growing brand in all of beauty.

 

Megan  41:49

Which is wild in such an oversaturated market. And I’m just so proud of you, Cassie.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  41:55

Thank you. Thank you so much. I’m so proud of you too. I mean, it’s so wild. I remember. I remember thinking like, I wonder if Megan and I will run into each other again one day. That was just so wild. And we did, and that’s so cool.

 

Megan  42:12

Our paths were meant to cross. They did. Thank you.

 

Cassandra Thurswell  42:17

Of course. Oh my gosh, this was such an honor.

 

Megan  42:24

Next week, we’re talking to a founder who sold a majority stake per billion dollar brand to build something completely new and very unexpected.

 

Next Guest  42:36

I spent the first four years quietly with two girls that make bras. None of us have one idea how to make a shoe, but I didn’t know how to make shape for either. And I always say to people, when you don’t know how something’s supposed to be done, you’re insured. You’re gonna do it differently, and that’s where innovation is.

 

Megan  42:52

Can you guess who it is? We’ll see you next week.

 

CREDITS 43:02

Confessions Of A Female Founder is a production of Lemonada Media.  Created and hosted by Megan. Our producers are Kathryn Barnes and Hoja Lopez.  Kristen Lepore is our senior supervising producer. Executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Megan. Mix and sound design are by Johnny Vince Evans. Rachel Neel is our VP of new content and production, and Steve Nelson is our SVP of weekly content and production. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. There’s more Confessions Of A Female Founder with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content when you subscribe in Apple podcasts, you can also listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. We’ll see you next week.