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Brooke Shields has been in the public eye since she began modeling at 11 months old. Days ahead of her 60th birthday, the actress, model, and author tells Reshma she’s in her “give no f*cks” era. Brooke talks about coming to terms with aging in front of the world, as chronicled in her latest book, Brooke Shields Is Not Allowed to Get Old. They also discuss how aging affects our hair and scalp, which inspired Brooke to start Commence, a hair care company designed for women over 40. Plus, Reshma pays Brooke a compliment that makes her emotional.

Follow Brooke @brookeshields on Instagram.

You can follow our host Reshma Saujani @reshmasaujani on Instagram.

Let us know how you’re doing in midlife! You can submit your story to be included in this show at speakpipe.com/midlife

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Reshma Saujani, Brooke Shields

Reshma Saujani  00:26

Welcome to My So Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I’m Reshma Saujani. I love Brooke Shields, and honestly, she needs no introduction. She’s been in the cultural zeitgeist for nearly her entire life, an icon with supermodel beauty, superstar charisma and young Hollywood mystique. But during our conversation, I realized something surprising. For someone who seems like the embodiment of confidence, Brooke is also living proof that no matter how much the world tells you you’re enough, we all carry that voice in our heads, the one that whispers, you’re not good enough, you’re not pretty enough, you’re not young enough. And here’s what I found so powerful. She doesn’t deny that voice. She talks about how to live with it, move through it and rise up anyway. Brooke is just days away from turning 60. Happy birthday, Brooke and she’s just not slowing down. Her new book, Brooke Shields is not allowed to get old, is a bold, funny and deeply personal look at aging identity and how women are expected to just shrink with time. In true Brooke fashion, she’s also building something new, commits, a hair care line designed specifically for mature hair. I love hair, so I’m really excited about this company. As we get older, every part of our body changes, including our hair. So our hair character routine should change too. Brooke has never been afraid to take on conversations the culture would rather her avoid, like postpartum depression, IVF and now the beauty standards that come for women in middle life, she’s still challenging expectations, still opening doors, still reminding us all that reinvention doesn’t stop at 4050, or 60. So let’s hear what the birthday girl has to say about all this. As you know, on this show, we love to talk about midlife mindset, and so how would you describe this time of your life like? What are the words that come to your mind?

 

Brooke Shields  04:34

The first words that just popped into my mind were hungrier than ever, I I think I’ve I’ve just had it. I’ve had it making myself smaller. I’m done with underestimating myself or thinking this isn’t perfect, that isn’t perfect, and when I that God’s gotta got better. I’m not this, I’m not that. And I’ve just started like and I’m not a mantra person or a definitely, I’m not Zen. I have tequila for that, but I am done being my worst critic, because it’s exhausting and you hit this age, which used to sound ancient and now just sounds middle aged to me and feels even younger than I did in my 20s and 30s, because I’m not as tired in the same way. Because when your 20s and 30s more in my 30s like you’re I found myself like treading water and asking to be picked and pick me. I can do it.  You don’t think I’m this. I am. I really am and and it’s such a sort of pathetic way of wasting your time. And I’m not saying because I think I was always afraid of arrogance, so this period of time in my life is really predicated on really reminding myself of all the things I am and not letting the naysayers, which are just always at the ready. They can’t wait to be, you know, a Monday morning quarterback or whatever the term is and and they can’t. They can’t wait to tell you how they know better than you do, and how this is where you’re wrong, and this is how it’s never going to be. And you just think, excuse me, but fuck you. Like I’m done, not reminding myself how far I’ve come and what I bring to the table, and how many decades of a career and education and family and friendship and loyalty that I’ve you know, scaffolded around me, who still keep coming back to to be a support and to be on side by side with me when I need it.

 

Reshma Saujani  06:59

Right? And she tells you that you’re good enough I want so can I tell you something? So I that’s interesting, as we’re talking about this. I so I asked my friend chat GPT this morning. I said, so what’s the most interesting thing about Brooke Shields? And this is what she said, and I’d like to call her she she said, one of the most interesting things about Brooke Shields is how she continuously reinvented herself while staying in the public eye. She became a global icon at 12 with her controversial role in pretty baby, and later solidified her stardom with Blue Lagoon. But what made her stand out isn’t just her early fame, but how she managed to survive the intense spotlight, earn a degree from Princeton and French literature, speak out publicly about topics like postpartum depression, long before it was commonly discussed, her ability to be both a popular cultural symbol and a thoughtful, articulate advocate, especially for mental health and women’s issues make her life arc genuinely compelling.

 

Brooke Shields  08:06

Isn’t that.

 

Reshma Saujani  08:09

It’s making you emotional? A machine that’s making me emotional?

 

Brooke Shields  08:15

Oh, God, stupid little robot. I mean, it’s all true.

 

Reshma Saujani  08:27

Chat GPT sees you.

 

Brooke Shields  08:29

Wow, I love AI. I think the reason why it’s emotional is because, not because it’s a machine. But because those are the things that you don’t realize you’re doing all the while you’re fighting to stay truthful and open and all of that, it’s like, oh my god, like and I wish I didn’t have to wait till this age to feel that type of relief. But maybe that’s the point. You know, maybe that really is the point. I can say this to my daughters, but you know, they they need to learn this sense of self from an authenticity standpoint, meaning being honest with their own selves, and then, but then you hear it, and it’s like, oh, is that? What does that mean? Is that perception, or is that truth? Well, it happens to touch a chord because I have fought so hard to not lose my self or truth or like, you know, I just keep kind of saying, Nope, nope, I’m gonna show up. I’m gonna show up, and if they don’t want me here, I’ll go here. But I knew I needed an education for myself. I knew I needed to live in a world for four years. Day that wasn’t consumed by work, you know.

 

Reshma Saujani  10:05

Yeah, and it wasn’t your everything. And I think the thing is, it’s interesting, because, as you know, right? Fame is kind of the worst thing you can wish on somebody. It’s so right, like it’s.

 

Brooke Shields  10:15

But if you ask kids today what they want to be, they’ll say, famous.

 

Reshma Saujani  10:18

I know an influencer, not an astronaut, an influencer.

 

Brooke Shields  10:21

I’m like, Oh, please. I was, I was an influencer before was influencing to whatever be like, You know what? I mean, it’s just it, it’s it’s gotten so sort of disjointed, and part of it is great, and part of it is so affirming to young people and but what’s really interesting is how they organize their feelings based on stuff that’s external rather than internal. And internally has always been what has kept me just alive. You know, I used to, like, get so overwhelmed and then kind of do a broadcast news where she pulls the plug out of the phone, cries really fast, and then out of the wall, and then plugs the phone back in the wall, and then gets, gets right back to news and and her work. And, you know, that’s the way I lived. I would be like, Okay, I’m gonna cry, and then that’s it. Moving on. Got to stay focused.

 

Reshma Saujani  11:23

You’re right.  You compartmentalize your pain. Well, that’s why I think was so incredible about what you just, what we just experienced together, is like, and I’ve had to know, I I work on this too, because I think I, too, have gone through a lot, and so, like, I wanted to, I avoided therapy for so long because I didn’t want to actually break the walls, because that’s how I function, and I was terrified of actually trying to live life in a like, in a different way, because I knew too much about what was hurting me. But, you know, I through my work with my with a spiritual teacher, I really learned that, like, I can’t do my work if I can’t access love, I can’t tell the world right to love girls and women and poor people, if I haven’t even tapped into my own raw emotionality. And I feel like that, you know that like, so how did you get there? Right? Because also your career, yeah.

 

Brooke Shields  12:21

Add to that. Sorry, just add to that. It’s really frightening to take down the walls, because that’s the foundation, right, and that’s been your protection. What if? What would happen? If you were a raw nerve, you would lose everything. You would just melt away, and it would you know, or just recently had this conversation, what if you didn’t like what you found out about yourself? And it’s and I recently said to someone, I understand that fear, but it is a leap of faith, in a way, but also, if you don’t like something that you discover, I, in my heart of heart, do not believe it’s who you are. I believe it shows itself in your responses to things. And we are in New York. I love it. Very impatient.

 

Reshma Saujani  13:20

Chelsea […]

 

Brooke Shields  13:25

So good.

 

Reshma Saujani  13:27

It’s like.

 

Brooke Shields  13:28

But if, and if you don’t like your behaviors or your reactions to things, that’s not who you are. That’s just how you respond, and you actually have the ability to practice responding differently and seeing what happens. You know, it’s like, yeah, I got emotional, but was it a terrible thing? Did? Did the house just fall apart? Like, did I just lose a whim? Like, no, but it’s so uncomfortable, even to take the good because we’re so used to being so guarded, and also it’s not all like I have worked so hard on, like, quote, unquote childhood, right? I’ve gone down all those roads. I mean, I’ve never done psychoanalysis, but I’ve, I’ve been in therapy for decades, and different levels and versions and different spiritual class plat plateaus for or paths, I should say, through whatever way and read it whatever it is and more spiritual than religion, but it it. I’m not worried anymore that I’m going to uncover some big, dark secret, and then all of a sudden it’s going to be like, you know, it’s like, oh my god, this inner monster has been pushed out and pushed down. I’ve done a lot of the work, but I’m still a human being who reacts in certain ways, and I still need things that put me in a difficult position. Like, approval, right? So then I, I’m like, okay, that really, maybe it has something to do with my childhood, but it’s not all my mother’s fault or all my father’s fault or, oh, you know, it’s a combination in the synthesis of a life lived. And yes, there are some people that, if they do I’m DMA, or they discover a clarity. And I’m kind of going to read into that more, but there’s also, yeah, there’s shit that people have really pushed down, whether it’s a type of abuse or whatever, and that type of catharsis, and you realize the ground didn’t fall out from under you, and there’s a liberation from holding on so tight to something that is like, you know, even shit petrifies after time and becomes a rock, you know. So it’s like, I think it’s, it’s scary and it’s time consuming, and it can be expensive, but the minute you get a little bit of it, and you go, I didn’t that wasn’t so bad, or I didn’t just fall apart entirely. It’s like my acting has gotten better, because.

 

Reshma Saujani  16:11

I tell right, yep, you’ve access to things you’re you understand yourself or why you do, or what your fears are. Like for me, like I have a lot around rejection, you know, and that’s growing up as a brown girl, growing up as an immigrant, being, you know, overweight, as a child, like all the things that I thought I wasn’t accepted about right have, and they pop up in moments that you wouldn’t even think are an example of rejection and understanding that, though, is when I experienced I’m Like, oh, I see this. I know why I’m feeling this way, right? I know, like, recently, I was doing a speech and was censored around it, and it just burst me open, and I couldn’t stop crying for hours. And like, wait, I know I’ve done brave things in my life. Like, I know how this, why is this breaking me open like this?

 

Reshma Saujani  22:33

So I want to talk about your birthday. You’re about to turn 60. I’m about to turn 50, and I’m like, I’m not hyped about it, even though, like, I do a podcast about, you know, midlife, and I’ve, I’ve evolved, but I don’t like, like, I like to wake up every morning and feel like I can work out, like my knees hurt. I can’t run the same distances as I used to. Like, I notice things that are wrong with my face. It’s like the punch on my belly, even though I don’t eat the cookie every day that I want to eat. Like, it’s just, you know, I’m saying it’s just like, Instagram feeds me, like, up teens, like Kris, Jenner, facelift stories, right? And it’s like, you can’t get away. And you have this amazing line where you’re you. I loved it. You said you’re either the hot girl at the bar or you’re in defense?

 

Brooke Shields  24:13

You know, it that’s what our society does. Like, it really sets us up for that, you know. And and, like the title of the book came from sort of talking to a man who, I don’t know what his age was, but, but I knew I was older, but I could tell he had, you know, knew what was, and probably was in the the realm of the era and was kind of, you know, had a bounce in a step about, we’re just talking about lying or whatever. And when I when he, when I said, because we were talking about lying, I mentioned my age, his knee jerk reaction was so, I mean, he couldn’t even, he didn’t stop. It before it came out of his mouth. And he said, You really shouldn’t have told me that. I didn’t need you to tell me that. And I thought, Wow, you can’t find a 59 year old. And I was 58 attractive. You can only find a 20 year old attractive, or, you know, maybe 30. But like I thought that’s happening all the time to people. And then you look at Instagram and you see, and, you know, and then I get again, because I was called the face of an era on Time Magazine. How the hell do you live up to that? You know? And I’ve, I remember seeing something on the screen when they started shooting digital, digitally, and I saw something on the screen, and was like a little line or something like that. And I said, oh, there must be something in the lens. Photographer looked at me and went, Oh. And I went, what? It’s on my face. My face, this face, it’s on here. And he was like, oh, honey. And I was like, oh, don’t pity me. I and then I had to, like, change the narrative and be like, well, these are laugh lines, and I’ve had a life of laughter. And you’re kind of like, okay, Brooke, do you believe that? No, you wish the line wasn’t there. But then you have to ask yourself, what you’re what are you coveting? Why? And there are parts of it that do suck. My knees are the worst, but they’re also the worst because I danced for 30 years seven times on Broadway in lead roles of some of the best Broadway musicals ever written. And, okay, I destroyed my knees, and I’ve had multiple surgeries on my feet. That sucks, and that kind of arthritis is been exacerbated, exacerbated by said activities. But I got to play Ruth Sherwood, and I got to play, you know, Sally Bowles, and I got to be on Broadway, and I got standing ovations, and it was glorious. And, you know, I got awards. And, like, it’s got all that joy that then you go, so what if you have a wrinkle or so what? I don’t know. I it’s like, to be honest, yeah, I mean, again, I look at my daughters in bathing suits, and I’m like, oh, no, really? And I didn’t even think to enjoy it when I was that high and smooth and tight and bouncy.

 

Reshma Saujani  27:33

And how do we change it, though? Like, I mean, because it is about the middle is magnificent, aging is extraordinary, right? And we know we’re being conned, right? We know all the things that we’re told we are beautiful. I mean, look at you. I mean, fuck.

 

Brooke Shields  27:52

I don’t know I haven’t makeup on, but.

 

Reshma Saujani  27:54

I mean, fuck, like, it’s like, there’s no like, we like the mirror doesn’t lie, right? There’s no question.

 

Brooke Shields  28:01

It’s you kind of have to have a come to Jesus moment with yourself, and you have to be willing to say, yeah, there, there are things that I I’m a I don’t like, maybe I feel a little bit of shame. Maybe I’m a little envious of this or that, or whatever, but then go, hey, look. But what you do have, like, look at your friends, look at your kids. Like, my kids are just so amazing, like, they’re just, they’re funny and smart and hard working and pains in the ass and and all of those things, but they’re mine, you know? And I still get a chance to perform, and I still get invited to the party. Do you know what I mean? And and I don’t think I would have had longevity had I not been adapted, adapted to each new era, and tried to hold on to, you know now it is about wisdom, and it’s about, you know what? No, I don’t want to go to that. I’m not, I’m not, I’m not gonna have FOMO. I’m not gonna go. I don’t want to go. I do not want to go to that party.

 

Reshma Saujani  29:26

Right? It’s like knowing what you want now, and you can actually live the life that you want to have.

 

Brooke Shields  29:31

Or change the life if that, if you don’t like it, you know you still have time. You’re not bound by, oh, I have to get married, oh, I have to have babies by this time. Oh, I have to do this. Check that box. Like you’re like, oh, I don’t have to do that. What do I want to do?

 

Reshma Saujani  29:46

Well, that’s the crazy thing. Like, we’re gonna live long. Like, this isn’t just a period this. This is most of your life. You’re in this stage, and so you better have fun. You better make the most of it. You better feel like you’re. Just counting the days, and it’s not Groundhog’s Day.

 

Reshma Saujani  30:17

I wanted to ask you something, because I feel like, I mean, you’ve been all of this attention, though or lack, but still, I still don’t feel like we have enough attention on women in midlife. You’ve talked about this. We’re still, you know, we’re still Fifth Avenue, and beauty products is still trying to sell us at 50 makeup for 20 year olds. It’s still, you’re, you know, you’re still not seen on screen as you’ve talked about. The one topic that has broken through is menopause, right? And that’s about it, though.

 

Brooke Shields  33:00

But it’s also the problem with that is we’re only menopause now, that’s what I mean, like, you’re either the hot girl or you’re peeing in your pants because you’re laughed, you know? And it’s like, God, why do you need us to be so compartmentalized like that. What is it that? Are we that formidable and scary to you? Like, think about that. Like, yes, I think we’re a little scary because we are so capable and and again. You know, I said this once. It’s, I make fun of myself, but it’s like, not like I am woman. Hear me roar. It’s like I am woman to hear me more, and that’s scary to be.

 

Reshma Saujani  33:42

I love that, you make a t shirt. We need to make a t shirt on that that is like.

 

Brooke Shields  33:52

So it’s I love, that I like. It’s when I said it. I said it to this room full of women at this convention and and they were, they, like, practically leapt to their feet. And I was like, Look, I’m not trying to Gloria Steinem here. Like, I’m not, I’m not that fabulous. But I do know we multitask. We’ve been we’ve raised families, we’ve run companies, we’ve started new companies, we’ve failed. We’ve picked ourselves up. Is it really failure? We’ve fallen. Let’s say we’ve picked ourselves up. We kept going. We’ve raised human beings. We’ve made a living. You know, we’ve and it’s like all that stuff put into one you don’t put that out to pasture. Maybe you don’t still breed that, you know, horse, but you, you know, maybe the full bearing years are over, but think of all the room there are for other things. We’re not, we don’t get, we don’t have one foot in the grave for many different reasons. So I think it kind of like you. I mean, it’s why I started the company. Commence, yeah, let’s talk about that, but tell us what it is. So it’s a hair care brand. It’s a started as a community so, but the community has grown continuously, and it was these kinds of conversations during COVID. What are you feeling in this era of your life over 40? Let’s start with what happens over 40, and those who I have known and seen flourish, and those who I’ve seen and known and been very close to as well get smaller, and they’re they start to lose their  joy and their spontaneity and their something feels downtrodden. And what is it about those other group of people? What, and you have those conversations, and then you look in the chat and you you see them say, oh, my God, this is so encouraging. I love being around women like this, because we’re not just women that are going, oh, I need to, need to do this, like, you know, whatever, and you’re and I want to look like myself. Yes, I want to look my best, and I want to be healthy, and I want to, I got to get my roots done on Tuesday, you know. And it’s like, okay, but let’s talk about all of it. And then they started saying, what are you going to make us? What are you going to build? And I said, No, I’m, I’m building us this, you know. But then it became, how do you as like, I’m not trying to monetize you. But then they said, We want to buy things that are formulated for us, not just for menopause, but like, yeah, your the pores on your scalp shrink when you hit from the time you hit like, 40 and everything, you know, and it’s not, yes, it is hormonal, and that also is menopausal, but it’s, it’s everything, right? Your relationships have, like, a a different you kind of have to reintroduce yourself to your partners and your friends, and there are adjustments that need to be made, but there’s no hair care if there’s a lot of gray and there’s a lot of supplements, but there wasn’t actual the white space for actual hair care for the over 40 scalp, like you’re hearing the word skinification of scalp much more now, because what We were talking about it for a long time. We didn’t coin that term. But, you know, people don’t treat their scalp like skin, so I started being a total geek. And, you know, go into the lab and call the formulator in the R and D guy at, you know, two in the morning, and leave a messages going, okay, but our instant shampoo, we need a hero product, and it has to have hyaluronic acid, because all dry shampoos are aerosol benzene drying for the scalp, that’s the environment, and don’t address patchy dry parts on us, on your scalp, which happens over 40 and women’s hair was thinning and and they just felt like they were just being given products for young, gorgeous, healthy scalp, fancy, shiny hair.

 

Reshma Saujani  38:09

It’s true, and it’s funny. I and I love that you focus on here I am. My hair is right here. Well, my hair is my everything, right? But, see, it’s funny you say because I’ve lost a lot of hair, and it really bothers me, like I have my skincare routine. What should be my hair routine?

 

Brooke Shields  38:29

Okay, I can tell you what I do. I don’t, we kind of sort of say, like, let’s you can do with our six products how you want. But But what I I would address your scalp as you do your face, and that involves using, not, not using shampoos that strip your hair and strip the scalp and really challenge the skin’s natural biome. Use conditioner that doesn’t just sit on top of the hair strand, but actually gets in absorbed. I mean, the shampoo and conditioner you can use absolutely every day. You can use the root serum every day. I don’t wash my hair every day.

 

Reshma Saujani  39:15

I don’t either. It’s better not to, right?

 

Brooke Shields  39:18

If you get a good blowout, to be honest, don’t waste it. You can, if it the shampoo is, if you’re using our shampoo, there’s all plant based. There’s nothing harmful. It’s color safe. It’s, again, plant based. It we have our our proprietary complex, which has IE and lacto lacillus fermentation, which took me a while to learn how to say. And you know, we have all these things that actually get absorbed by the pore nourish the hair, from the root all the way to the tip. So those are things that are, it’s not multi level. I put the root serum in at my scalp. I put on my fingers like this, and I press it into my scalp every day. And. Like food for your scalp. I use the instant shampoo on dry hair every day because it also volumizes well. I never say you should or shouldn’t. Like my one friend uses our leave in conditioner as a blow drying protection, because it’s our products are safe and protecting from heat and environmental. So those are things that some people’s hair gets really frizzy in this right?

 

Reshma Saujani  40:31

It depends on Tetra so I want to, well, I’m that’s amazing, and I’m excited.

 

Brooke Shields  40:37

So we’re in the fundraising phase, which is enough to make anyone pass out.

 

Reshma Saujani  40:43

So what is the what has the fundraising phase taught you? And because I heard you tell the story you were raising money and you were selling your company, but this dude, this, you know, VC, was basically telling you what you needed to do before he had even heard your pitch. I’m sure that happens all the time when I talk to my my my friends who are founders, it happens all the time. And I imagine if you were younger, instead of being like what you did, you kind of told them, hold on a minute. You know, I mean, and you you spoke your you spoke your truth. How has like this moment, age helped you with any tools that you’ve learned, you know, on the road in this space to like, help you use your voice and stand up for yourself.

 

Brooke Shields  41:28

I don’t feel obligated to take care of everybody else first, and I don’t I my the way I used to be is make everybody’s opinion or behavior really matter. And, well, I don’t want to, if I do that, it’s gonna hurt their feelings or, or, Oh, I, you know, there’s just, like, obligatory. You’d be good say yes, you know, yeah, that they, you know, they can. You’re just gonna help out. That’s what you’re going to do, you know? And then you get so tired of being used and this era, I just recently said to my partner, we need to lighten our load. We are being dragged down right now. We are being dragged down. And you and I are the team and the people that are yelling, I don’t want them. I don’t want them on my I don’t want that energy. I don’t want any of that out. Whereas, if this had been 10 years ago, I would have been like, Oh, she’s going to be really mad. Like, let’s just she’s good, you know or he’s, he’ll do it. He’ll deliver, we know, he will well guess what? Time is running out. I need it now. We need it sooner than later. We sell out of products. We need to make more. You know, it’s like and our minimums are no joke like so this era, because of the company, I’m able to take on a position at Actors Equity that I would have never thought that I would have been afraid to have a voice I now say, why are we spending so much time on that person’s attitude and words? Get rid of him. He’s not helping. And it’s like that making an enemy or saying no.

 

Reshma Saujani  43:17

Or hurting someone’s feelings. What if they don’t like me?

 

Brooke Shields  43:20

And the weird thing is, the times that I have stood up, like, sweaty, of course, like, and really, like, panicky and having to, like, call my therapist before and after, um, they these people changed their tone so quickly that it’s like, baked breaking up with a bad boyfriend, when they then go, well, you know what? You’re fat anyway, and I never liked you anyway, and then you’re stupid and and you go, oh, thank you. You just made this so easy for me. I’m still breaking up with you. We have whereas then, you know it’s like the good when they have you on the hook. Oh, you’re the best. And then the minute you do something like true colors show up, come through, and when you see that enough in business, you just want to get there quicker. You know, you don’t want to waste any time. And you know what? I’m okay saying, This is what I don’t know, but this is what I do know, and you can’t tell me, I don’t know this. I’m happy to be the first one to learn about a cap table and the total addressable market and the EBITDA and all of all those words that I had to like, look up. You know, I’m a French major. I’m not a business major and so, but guess what? Okay, I get person who knows better than I do, and they’re on the team, and then they teach me, you know, and it’s like that era, this is this era for me.

 

Reshma Saujani  44:50

I love that. And it’s so def. I love what you just said, and it’s a good way to for us to close, which is like, you’re in an era in your life, in your age with Your wisdom to say, this is what I know. And this, I don’t know, and the confidence to say that is, I think it’s really powerful.

 

Brooke Shields  45:05

And it was to fight to end that is, like I was, I was quoted as saying, Oh, this is my, like, no give no fucks era, or something like that. And I’m sure I said that because I have a mouth on me, but, but it, it’s less about that. It’s and I know I did say it in some way, but I think what it is is I really do give a lot of those for myself, and that never was like this. I love that. It’s when you hear yourself even say it, you’re kind of like, oh yes, hold on to that. Look, listen to what you just said to her.

 

Reshma Saujani  45:47

And it’s, you know, I wrote a whole book about how we socialize girls to basically take up no space and, you know, and just to be small and to shrink ourselves and be people pleasers. And I love what you’re saying in terms of, like, you get to middle age and midlife, and it is. It’s setting that little girl free to think about me, and I love that.

 

Brooke Shields  46:09

And it’s not selfish, and it’s not arrogant. No, it’s not. And you know what it it’s, if not now when you know that quote, but it’s, um, my therapist said to me, got a couple years ago, she goes, God, I just want you to walk in rooms bigger. I just want you to look at your life bigger and see feel the fullness of that, and I’m like, oh no, and then you, you know, you get a kind of a compliment, even if it’s from a machine, and you go, you know, it’s like, why was that my reaction? Instead of, yeah, it’s like, oh, you’re not used to it’s hard to take, you know, I just sorry and I’ll shut up. But I just worked with Glenn Close and Naomi Watts, and had this crazy, not fun character I had to play. And, you know, I debated whether I would even do it. And, of course, because it was terrifying, I had to do it, and I was so nervous. And like, really, if I felt like I was going to feel shame acting opposite these two wonderful, beautiful, talented, nuanced, strong women who are have done so much that I haven’t done and been acknowledged for it in a way that I never really was or will be in that way, whether it’s an award or whatever more opportunity. And here I was in front of this with like, eight page monologs That went through every emotion possible, and tears and and all this stuff. And I thought, what is what are you doing? And why are you here? And I went to the bathroom, and I had one of those, you know, movie scenes where you go and you look at yourself and I am good, and I’m strong, I’m smart, and you’re kind of like, Oh, bullshit. So then I was like, okay I was like, ask yourself one question, Brooke, are you going to go out there and belittle yourself so much that it’s a self fulfilling prophecy that you suck? Or are you going to go dig as deep and dark and real and honest and open, which is hard to do balance and just get out on that stage, because the curtain is going to rise and you’re going to be in front Of all of this. And it was with this amazing director. And at the end of the day, she came up to me, and I was done, and she said, I need to tell you something. And I said, what? She said, that was incredible work today. And I went, Oh, thank you you’re a great director. Thank you, and I started bouncing away and going, great, you know, look. And I couldn’t wait to get out of there. She grabbed she’s, her name is, she’s, that’s scary. Anyway, she grabs my shoulders, and she goes, no, you need to listen to this, and you need to hear it, and you need to accept it. And she just reiterated what her impression was, and I burst into tears and I was like, you know, even I’ve been crying all day, and, she and I just walked away going. And then I the messages I got from the actresses were like, I couldn’t believe they were sending me the things that they don’t have to say I was in it for one scene, like they’re in the whole show, like, and I thought to myself, you know what? That’s who you are. You show up, but you need to show up for yourself and not be afraid. And it was such a lesson. And, you know, I don’t know if I want to do those kinds of scenes all the time because they’re miserable, but, you know, I like making people laugh, but it was so affirming to me. And I thought, you know what, I don’t need awards. And that was kind of accolades. Yeah, they’d be nice. But does it mean I don’t have talent? No, and do I need that kind of praise every time. No, but I need to believe it, and I do so much more. So now that’s it. I’ll shut up.

 

Reshma Saujani  50:31

And just to end with chat, GPT, your life, your arc of your life, is genuinely compelling. You’re extraordinary, like you are extraordinary, and just real and honest and authentic and thank you. This is a wonderful conversation.

 

Reshma Saujani  51:00

Huge thank you to Brooke Shields for joining me today. Check out her latest book. Brooke Shields is Not Allowed To Get Old, and her hair care line for women over 40 called Commence. One last thing, thank you for listening to My So Called Midlife if you haven’t yet, now’s a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You’ll get bonus content like Brooke talking about her experience with postpartum depression and her decision to write a book about it, long before the topic was discussed publicly. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple podcasts or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That’s lemonadapremium.com. Thanks, and we’ll be back next week.

 

CREDITS

I’m your host, Reshma Saujani. Our associate producer is Isaura Aceves, and our senior producer is Kryssy Pease.   This series is Sound Design by Ivan Kuraev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltuck.   Our VP of new content is Rachel Neel.   Special thanks to our development team, Hoja Lopez, Jamela Zarha Williams and Alex McOwen. Executive Producers include me, Reshma Saujani, Stephanie Whittle Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review and let us know how you’re doing in midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this show at speakpipe.com/midlife. Follow My So Called Midlife, wherever you get your podcast, or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership, thanks so much for listening. See you next week, bye.