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They’re a hair magnate, O.G. podcaster, and the high priestess of living room gymnastics. Jonathan Van Ness joins Su to talk about that one time Ariana Grande unfollowed them, why traveling with too many bath soaks might raise some eyebrows, and why Jonathan would color-code their entire house if they could. Plus, JVN shares something they thought nobody else does – until they met Su.

Please note, Add To Cart contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.

To see all products mentioned in this episode, head to @addtocartpod on Instagram. To purchase any of the products, see below.

• Trinny London makes some of Jonathan’s favorite skincare products
• Pursoma Bath Soaks help them unwind and relax after a long night of stand-up comedy and backflips
• What’s in Jonathan’s hair? The Undamage Strengthening Shampoo, Nurture Deep Moisture Mask, Complete Blowout Styling Milk from their JVN Hair line
• Jonathan is obsessed with The Home Edit’s organizing style
• Su and Jonathan stan Ariana Grande, and her R.E.M Beauty eyeshadow palette
• Get cash back as you shop for the holidays with Rakuten
• Love JVN? Check out their podcast Getting Curious with Jonathan Van Ness

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Jonathan Van Ness, Kulap Vilaysack, SuChin Pak

SuChin Pak  01:12

Hello, hoarders Welcome to another episode of add to cart. Wow. This is a show about the things we buy. What we buy into what it says about who we are. I’m just sitting here thinking about our guests coming up and already just sweating. I’m SuChin Pak. Today we have the most glorious radiant guests. They’ve been nominated for an Emmy they’re a New York Times bestselling author, an OG podcaster, a hairstylist, nay, a hair magnate, I say, this joyful human is also a powerful voice and advocate for the LGBTQIA community. You may also know them from a little show called Queer Eye, please add to cart the High Priestess of living room gymnastics and cat culture. Jonathan. Van Ness. Jonathan, thank you so much. It’s so good to see you.

Jonathan Van Ness  02:04

Hi. I’m so excited to be here.

SuChin Pak  02:06

Wow. I mean, I know how busy you are. You’re traveling all around the world. So thank you so much for stopping by Add to Cart. So let’s start where only one person can start. Tell me. Tell me about your hair. What’s in it? How she feeling today?

Jonathan Van Ness  02:22

Yes, well, I gave you my natural waves today. I was, I sorted to give you like tao salt like natural. They’re feeling hydrated. They’re feeling good. Typically contend to be a kind of a major like product loyalist. So I have a lot of JVN hair in my hair right now. I did a damage shampoo with our nurturer mask today. And then I did our complete conditioning messed. And then I did insert recovery serum on my mid links and ends and then I did air dried cream over that and then I diffused and that’s how I got the gorgeous texture.

SuChin Pak  02:58

First of all, let me just say JVN products, I paid full price for and then got the lovely, lovely basket from your guys’ PR team, which I was so excited. So now I would I do you know, in California, it’s car culture here. So I have a set in my car, because that’s really where one gets ready. Right?

Jonathan Van Ness  03:19

It’s mine where I do last looks. I try to do most of it at home but like, I definitely do last looks in the car.

SuChin Pak  03:26

You know, you’re jumping out of the shower. Oh, you’re you forgot that you’re volunteering at your kids Halloween, you know parade party, okay, you just go in little, you know, shut up with some mist and some you know, bomb and then you’re ready to go. So yeah, I now have that’s a hot tip. You guys have all of your favorite JVN hair products in the car as well. Because you just never know. You’ve been on a world tour. So tell me about this show and putting it together like your imagination must have just gone wild.

Jonathan Van Ness  03:57

Yeah, I mean, it’s a stand-up comedy show. So it’s like, it occurred to me at a show in 2019. I had done like, I was like, as a former cheer leader we do this thing like annually where you typically will like do a backflip like to make sure that you can still do it. And it’s usually like on a parking lot or like some very like dangerous place and so I was on stage in Portland Oregon. And I remember saying to everyone was like to want to see my like annual backflip and everybody was like no, don’t hurt yourself. And I was like, I’m a former cheerleader. I’m doing it right now. So I did it and everyone was like oh my gosh, and so it was then that I was like, and my next show was actually a cruise ship and it was a it was on […] cruise and it was like February of the next year. And so that was my next show. And so I started preparing my routine like for those few months and I remember like being on this cruise ship and like rocking back and forth I was on like a waist smaller tumble track than I am now. And I also like it really went from being like this joke like it kind of started as like this joke of like how not kind of good It was but I did it anyway. But then I kind of like, started taking it more seriously and I’ve now I’ve done like two routines like that was like one but like they enough. Like, I’ve really worked on the choreography and like the show, it’s like the musicality hunting is there like a full on like routine. My costumes are so much better than they used to be. So yes, it starts off with like a gymnastics routine that I do like a little, like 15 minutes sat in my little leotard. And I kind of set the tone for the night about like, what imaginary living room Olympian is about in which really, it’s all about queer joy. And it’s all about like, just human joy. Like, that’s really what my comedy is about. And so then, our opener comes out and does like 15 minutes while I go do like a fast like quick change, and I redo my hair, then I come out like a different outfit. And then I do like my like our set. And it’s really fun. I think people have a good time.

SuChin Pak  05:52

Wait, now have you always been so ambitious? Because already thinking about just doing a stand-up set, you know, just like going on stage trying to make people laugh, being yourself celebrating. And then on top of that, you’re like, you know what, I’m gonna turn it up at notches, and do a full gymnastics routine set. Like, are you just like an ambitious person where the bar is set, and you’re like, well, I don’t know if that’s you know, that’s high enough for me.

Jonathan Van Ness  06:24

Honestly, part of the thing that I really like about gymnastics is it like, it allows me to stay focused on something, I think it actually makes my comedy even better, because, like, I have to, like physically warm my body up, I have to like, do a little bit of yoga, I’m like stretching a little bit like I get to the venue like, pretty early. So I can like warm up my tumbling. And like, it just I think it actually makes you like more focused and like a better comedian. So it’s kind of had a lot of like, benefits, it is harder sometimes, like when you’re in Australia, and you’re 35 and it’s like your fish show and five days and you’re like, Oh, my body hurts, like I’ve been an aeroplane and stuff. But the people that come to my show are like, so amazing. And it’s such an incredible feeling. And it’s like such a unique energy. And I get so like inspired from it that like, I just like, I don’t know, it just feels like being on cloud nine. It’s so exciting. And I just every single show I do, I just think to myself, like especially now like post pandemic, like I just, I almost like cry at the end, because I just am so grateful for the opportunity. And we really didn’t know for a long time if we were ever going to be able to like congregate together again, and like enjoy this art form. And I really fell in love with the art form of stand-up comedy, like it’s so special. And it’s so cool to be able to like, make people laugh like that. And like have an audience in the palm of your hand. And at this point, after all these years, like I’ve missed it so bad, and I’m so happy to be able to go back out there. And I’ve also like been married and moved to Texas and like my life has just changed so much like all of that stuff is in my show. So it’s like fun to get to share, like a like, I think my stand-up comedy is like, one of the fullest versions of myself, like, where I get to be the most myself. And like the most unfiltered version of myself.

SuChin Pak  08:04

And that’s saying a lot because yeah, that’s why I’ve been you know, it whenever like it would be like you doing a video one I don’t even remember like maybe it was like getting ready with me or you know, all the coffee twirls from way back. And, you know, I think there is something when you were talking about like how special your audiences and how special your fan base is. And when you are a person that cultivates joy intentionally. I mean, how amazing to then just be live in a room where everyone is on the same page. I have like chills, like I you know, to think about it in that way, you know that everyone’s there to just like, feel good and be happy.

Jonathan Van Ness  08:49

I mean, I think it’s also like a surprise because we talk about a lot. It gets like it gets saucy, it gets racing and it’s stand-up comedy, but I think that’s like what is just so cool is it like so many different aspects of ourselves can exist, and they don’t invalidate each other? I’m really big on this idea of like, duality, and that like our joy and our pain, specifically, like our trauma and are suffering and are the things that we’ve been through that are like negative or that we you know, deem as negative, those things don’t invalidate our right to feel joyful or experienced or like celebrate the parts of us, or even like surviving those things. I think that’s often like we feel like when we survive something like you don’t get to experience joy anymore. We like those parts of ourselves or dad, or those parts of ourselves like can’t feel the same way. And I like to push back on that and I think that we can all like just experience so many nooks and crannies of our like spectrum to feel.

SuChin Pak  09:47

Yeah, I love that and I so relate because I think for so long and I’ve said this before, like this podcast is such a cranky version of myself, but that’s also 97% I feel like the 3% one I was on MTV was this polished like, hey, everybody’s happy. And if I not happy, then I may not be invited back. So let me just be the, and after a while that is so draining, and to be able to be like, this is how I feel and it’s not great today and still feel like I have a place here. You know what I mean? That it’s, it’s completely valid to show up that way that I don’t have to put on and hold everybody else up that I can also just be in my crabby, crusty self. And it’s okay. You know, so for me, I had no idea that this medium would allow me that space. And I didn’t even know I was craving that, to be honest. You know, I just felt like, well, that’s work. And then your personal life, you can be the version that you are, but it is liberating to live with those two. I want to get to add to cart because this is what this show was about. And when we had come up with this show a few years ago, I wanted a way to talk about the things that like, bring us joy, it could be a serum, it could be a TV show, or a book and what it says about who we are right. But before we dive into that, I think it’s very telling to ask the question, like, what kind of shopper Are you? You know, like, what’s your personality when you’re buying or when you’re looking or whatever it is that goes into shopping.

Jonathan Van Ness  11:23

Impulsive. Also, I would say like very generous, like, I love buying myself stuff. But I also like love buying my friends stuff I love like buying like really cheap things for people who I love. Like, that gives me like, definitely like the endorphin like high. I am like getting retail therapy high right now. And I know it but I feel so fun. It’s like I’m just doing it. And like whether I have like $30 in my checking account, or like add zeros on to that. I think I’m just one of those people were like, bitch, I want to spend every last fucking bit in there. Like I think I would spend my last dime on like some sweater that I already had like seven of that same sweater. But like this one is like its own unique story, even though it’s like a navy sweater. And I just I really need it. I do like to joke that like I probably will end up in my mom’s basement because I spent my last dime on like bags. So we’ll see. Hopefully that doesn’t happen.

SuChin Pak  12:22

No, I hope I hope so too. I hope you have good people around you that are going to stop you from buying the last sweater with your last dollar.

Jonathan Van Ness  12:29

My mom did just renovate her house though. So like the basement would be cute like she made this like one little bedroom like in this like playroom for my niece and her friends. And I’m like yeah, you’re not gonna have that I’m moving back there. That’s gonna be my, it’s actually my room now. So yeah,

SuChin Pak  12:42

That’s the silver lining room. Okay, so let’s get to your cart. The first thing we’re going to click on is Trinny London.

Jonathan Van Ness  12:52

Oh my god.

SuChin Pak  12:53

Tell me everything.

Jonathan Van Ness  12:55

Her skincare is amazing. I just met her a few weeks ago. And she’s amazing and I love her skincare so much. I’m like I said I’m a Product loyalist so like I’m very into bioscience like I’m such a bioscience girl. And when I’m not using bioscience I typically use […]. And if I another one that I might enter spice in there like skincare wise is like herbivore like I love they’re like they’re some masks and some cleansers that I really like, but honey this Trinny products I’m like I got someone new in my rotation like I’m obsessed with the moisturizer. I love the cleanser. I also really liked this like exfoliating serum, they’re just like all in my rotation. It’s giving me crazy sexy cool; I’m getting TLC like […] and Trinny London are like my TLC right now and I just didn’t loving them so much.

SuChin Pak  13:43

Trinny is also one of those people that I’ve also love watching her on YouTube and she does the fashion and there is for her as well like a realness that you just you just know that when you meet that person. It’s exact same person that’s going to be on the small screen as it literally is in meeting in person. She’s also another person that’s so fun to follow.

Jonathan Van Ness  14:07

And sister can just like really formulate some nice asking here. I feel like we both are like really into our formulations. I had so much fun chatting like just talking shop with her. Yeah, I really liked her.

SuChin Pak  14:18

Awesome. Okay, so add that to cart and then was there anything in particular in that line that you haven’t experienced it that Okay, start here, fall in love and then the rest will come?

Jonathan Van Ness  14:29

I really love the moisturizer, it’s really gorgeous. It smells so good. And I just the peptides in it really do make my skin feel like nice and fucking firm and like fat and like durable.

SuChin Pak  14:46

Now when you travel, especially when you’re traveling overseas, you check in luggage, right? Like you’re not a, right? There are people that don’t.

Jonathan Van Ness  14:55

I’m on tour honey, I have like, I got so many bags on tour I got a DM tumble track a bouncy mat track with me I got outfit changes I got like so many heels I just yeah, they like we had to get there so early to check in like the 10 or 15 bags it’s and then they like what do you do? Like how is this, is that convenient there’s like a lot of looks like look at me honey and got looks on looks.

SuChin Pak  15:23

So like so when you travel then you have your full skincare like routine?

Jonathan Van Ness  15:29

I’m really […] because I’m like on usually when I’m traveling, I’m like working so I’m like you know either like performing onstage or I’m like doing like something on camera so my makeup is usually pretty like stacked my haircare is pretty much like you know I have it but like, with like hair for instance, like in Australia, I was like I’m just gonna use them body the whole time. Like I just use my […] shampoo conditioner the whole time. I didn’t take like, you know, my whole like shampoos and conditioners with like skincare like I wouldn’t bring like a gel moisturizer and a cream moisturizer like for two weeks and like I just am gonna bring my one you know, I like I did have two serums because I like a day serum and a night serum. Obviously I’m not a fucking monster. You know what I’m saying? I’m just kidding. But yeah, like I so it is like I try to be a little bit like, just because there is so many things like when I’m working like, like, can I just pare it down a little bit but it still ends up being like kind of a lot. Like when we were packing and was like my assistant she was like, do I really need these like five bath salts like it’s international? Like what if they think it’s like, because I’m obsessed with this like pure soma bath salts? I’m obsessed with these pure Soma bath salts. They’re just the most amazing bath salts are the most amazing, like small business owners. I love them. They sent me some stuff in like 2019 And I told them that if they ever sent me something again, I would come unglued because I am buying it at full price. I want to support them. I was like, you are never wasting your money sending like I was like, I just love it so much like they just have so like I love their unplug. I love their digital detox. I love their, like post shavasana they’d like a post yoga soak. They’re just like, they also have like a breed like a like one for like breathing. Like when you have like a like a cough like yes, it’s like a gorgeous soak for that. And your skin just feels so good when you get out. So I love them. But So Anna was like, she put five in my bag and I was like girl this is like a pound of basketballs like it’s giving me suspicious it’s giving me like, she was like..

SuChin Pak  17:27

Isn’t there a drug that is called bath salts?

Jonathan Van Ness  17:30

Yeah, there is but she was like Jonathan she was like some of the hotels have like really nice baths are you sure and I was like I was like maybe you can put in one and then when I got there I was like girl you put in like five like nightmare and then I ended up using all five so like I ended up like in my body like needed it so bad. I was like so sore from all the traveling so I’m so happy she did it. So I tried to pare it down but it’s still like five bags of bath salts and you know so much skincare like my entire makeup kit whole hair care kit.

SuChin Pak  17:57

[…] one moisturizer. You know what I mean? One moisturizer. Like two serums one moisturizer.

Jonathan Van Ness  18:06

And I had still had like you know facial oil and like all my makeup like my primer or like my concealer or my like you know all my stuff. It’s like a lot my sunscreen. Of course.

SuChin Pak  18:15

That’s meditate, you know necessary. So wait your salts though. Okay. How does one use a bath salt, like I kind of do you just pour it right in? Does it go on your skin?

Jonathan Van Ness  18:36

Well, what I like to do is I like to chop it up really fine. And then instead of using a straw, I like to get a pin and I just don’t I’m just kidding you guys. That’s not how you do you don’t do like that. No, you just pour it into the bathtub honey, and the pure soma. Not all of them. But some of them like come with  like a crystal like they come with these like cute little like in like the crystal goes into the bath. So you just draw your bath. And then here’s a mistake that I have made with them before and it’s like a shame to waste like the 895 or whatever it is. It’s like it really has been like a heartbreaker. If you turn the bath on especially the plates we’ve never been in you turn on like the cold water instead of the hot and then like you draw the whole bath and it’s cold. And you put the bath salts in already then you gotta like drain it to mouth to I’m saying yeah, so just makes sure that it’s like, warm before you put it in.

SuChin Pak  19:23

The look on his face is like I’ve done this before and it’s definitely. Okay, hot tip. Tell me this isn’t like the most amazing holiday gift for everyone on your list?

Jonathan Van Ness  22:18

Yes, it’s like everyone has an aunt who just like shits the bed that holiday you know just like ruins it for everybody. We called ours […]. My mom tells us a really good story about her first Christmas with my dad’s family and that Auntie punch my other Auntie in the face. And my mom was so upset because she was like, oh my god, it’s like first like Christmas away from my family and like, there’s a fistfight at your family’s like table, you know? So it can just be a lot, it can just you never know and it’s just like you can give your aunt state breast some bath salts like that you need to calm down go take a bath do not come in here on a 12, I need to come in and you’re at a good for, calm you know in your window tolerance you know, you’re gonna have all the crystal be okay, yes here’s a crystal yes I love it, no honestly, […] bath salts are really just like your they’re called bath soaks actually they’re gorgeous.

Jonathan Van Ness  24:21

So this isn’t a product, but I love that you put this in there organizing my whole house. Let’s do it.

Jonathan Van Ness  25:29

Okay. So when I say organizing my whole house, I mean paying my best friend Patty to organize my whole house. So she is basically an expert in The Container Store. And I told her I was like girl because she’s my makeup artists like slash best friend. So I was like, this is like, way less annoying than having to do my makeup because like, they don’t have to talk back and I let you do whatever you want with these drawers. You know what I’m saying? So she started like, it’s like half price of a day rate for your makeup. You know, I’m saying she’s expensive, you know, I’m saying so. So I was like, this is fine. You know, you’d like get to like work at your own pace, honey. So we have a good day. And then basically it’s like the home at it. You know, that show on Netflix like those fears to home? I don’t like we look. So she’s giving me like Patti Creo on the Home Edit. It’s like kind of it’s not quite Home Edit.

SuChin Pak  26:19

Because Home Edit is, we’ve talked about this on this show. I mean, it’s beautiful. But it’s not necessarily the most practical organizing principle to say, we’re going to organize the wrong color.

Jonathan Van Ness  26:30

Okay, I was pushed back on that completely. I did pay full price for the home edit to do my house in New York in late 2019. And I was just like, fuck me. This is so expensive. And then I ended up moving out of that house like three seconds later. But then at the same time, like Patty became kind of like obsessed with organizing. But I like look, if I was just like, Olsen money, like just like just that kind of like the row founder of the row like that, then I would I’d be like Patti, I’m sorry. It’s just like, I love you. But we’re doing and we’re over here. And I hope she doesn’t listen to this podcast because like, Please girl like please don’t fire before because like, I love you like your organizing is so good.

SuChin Pak  27:13

When you got the Reese Witherspoon treatment.

Jonathan Van Ness  27:15

That was next level like it was, I didn’t having it be color coded, which I was like, it satisfied me on a spiritual level. We’re basically like that, except for not the color coordination. The other thing that Patti just cannot get down with that the Home Edit does do that I have to say, I actually prefer the home edit method on this, they take everything out of its box. So like, if you have like, you know, like your refill, like your back stock or whatever your products are in like boxes, they take all the boxes out to like break it down. Like it just doesn’t take up as much space. Whereas Patti’s like what have you, we’ll give it away as a gift. I might put a ribbon around the tube. Like I don’t need that box. And she’s like, you might want the box and I’m just like, I don’t need the box. I like it. I like skinny storage; you know what I’m saying? But she likes to save everything. So she, that’s what she does. And I love that about her and she is like my best friend so she can kind of do whatever she wants. And she’s like, not home edit prices. I’m kind of just like, thank you so much. You’re making it look so fucking good, like better than I could ever do it. And then sometimes I will come in and I’ll do a little […] at the end because I do have to say that color coordination part on visible things. I just think it’s really cute. Like the books I’m obsessed with like the rainbow organize the books. And my closet. Like I will say that has stuck. I do a color coded closet like that. I feel deeply angry when my closet is not like that. I want to cuss people out. I have no idea why I’m in such a bad mood. And then I’m like, oh, it’s my closet. So that kind of turned me out, it really,  No, I really that’s I said I have to push back on this I actually exit the color coding is like actually like really, but I think I actually also might be obsessive compulsive because like, when I pour myself water, oh my God, I’ve never told anybody this before.

SuChin Pak  29:14

I’m leaning so hard and I’m gonna fall out of my chair go on.

Jonathan Van Ness  29:18

When I pour myself water my brain just starts counting the time that it takes to like, like, it goes like […] like while I’m kind of like it’s filling up. It just counted and then like, Oh my God, why is it doing that again? Does that mean something? What do you think?

SuChin Pak  29:37

Do you do that when you go pee? Because I do that when I pee.

Jonathan Van Ness  29:45

That makes me feel so good. That you do that too.

SuChin Pak  29:50

I can’t stop doing it. I don’t know when it started.

Jonathan Van Ness  29:53

I can’t stop trying to fill glasses of water […].

SuChin Pak  29:59

I’m like […] Oh, that was good. That was 10, and I always try to get a high number.

Jonathan Van Ness  30:05

I just count to eight over and over again. I go like if I was like filling into […] I don’t know.

SuChin Pak  30:24

I was like can I just do eights over and over again? While I you know what I mean? I was right there with you.

Jonathan Van Ness  30:30

Is it a multiplication table thing for me? I don’t know what it is. I don’t know why.

SuChin Pak  30:36

Eight is a very symbolic number. Right? It’s infinity it’s very even, you know, there’s like a lot of Juju around eight, I don’t know I’m making it up.

Jonathan Van Ness  30:47

We’re really like settling in. Okay, because I’ve been really triggered about this ever since you said MTV because then I was like oh my god, MTV. You’re like a fucking, where you have got DMVJ on the fucking MTV?

SuChin Pak  30:58

I was doing the news.

Jonathan Van Ness  31:07

She’s really important. Okay, this is okay. I’ve been thinking ever since we were talking to him. I just really hope you remember this because I talked about this and no one ever fucking remembers. Do you remember that like that show Sandblast? It was like that obstacle course show on MTV. And they like rode the jetski was like down that like crane thing. And it was like on it. MTV. And it was like it was on before singled out.

SuChin Pak  31:37

Well, first of all, Sandblast was a TV series 1994 to 1996. It was an MTV beach game show with two person teams, do we need to bring this back. It was before my time and before I ever even saw MTV, I want to say.

Jonathan Van Ness  31:51

It was fucking amazing. There was one part that I was like, Okay, first of all, there was this pool. Okay, and you had to like hit a fucking mechanical springboard and it would like launch you across this pool. They didn’t like climb up this huge like rope wall. We’re gonna like climb up this rope wall. Then you have to get a jetski and like go down like this like three storey ramp on this jetski like right around this like beach. It was like a major obstacle course. It was like really major.

SuChin Pak  32:16

And were they celebrities because, you know, MTV. These were just like regular normies. And like what they won like, a seat.

Jonathan Van Ness  32:33

Then I got to become Dave Holmes’s hairdresser also, like, the nicest. He’s from St. Louis. And I’m obsessed with him. And also best hair is such good fucking hair. We’re just obsessed. He has such really great hair. Based on what you said, like did you just like you hated the whole experience or like because we are also into duality and that like our joy doesn’t invalidate like our, like bad times. Like, was there any parts that you thought were cute slash, did you ever watch the real world?

SuChin Pak  32:57

Most of my time there was pure joy slash. I watched season. I had season one on VHS tape. You know, watched the whole thing. Right? Is Still loving Eric. Eric Nies.

Jonathan Van Ness  33:12

I loved Bryn from Vegas. I still remember Brent. I also remember like Melissa from New Orleans. I loved her.

SuChin Pak  33:19

For those that are listening that don’t understand the impact of real world especially like real world season one. I mean, the reality TV didn’t exist.

Jonathan Van Ness  33:27

It’s much like pussy, and I’ll tell you why. None of us would fucking be here without policies and vaginas. And similarly, most of us wouldn’t be here without real world. Like that. Like literally like is probably like at least 75% of like, why our generation is the way it is.

SuChin Pak  33:55

Especially, I would even say higher for now generation especially with these little […]. They don’t know and they don’t even know. Listen, I went on another podcast who had like, a young demographic, but I’m not talking like nine year olds. I’m talking probably 22 year olds. And I had to explain what a VJ was. They didn’t even know that. So and then and then because so I was explaining it. And then I was like, okay, so MTV. They’re like, okay, kinda used to play music videos. I couldn’t even like I was going so back far in time, because they were like, well, what do you mean? You can only watch music videos on TV? Like you don’t that’s, it’s such a, like a Polaroid snapshot, and then to never be seen or exist again.

Jonathan Van Ness  34:51

I don’t want to come into your interview. But I have one more question. It’s like not about what we were talking about before. Can I just ask him? Are we going to talk about how amazing your eyeliner is like this waterline eyeliner application I’m really into like waterline eyeliner right now like when you put it like on like your inside rim, you know I’m saying like I just learned about it like 10 months ago like I knew about it, but doing it on myself. I should try to do it today and I went a little bit. It got a little dicey it didn’t really turn out but like your application is, perfection like what is it? How do you fucking put it on? Is that the Mac pot one?

SuChin Pak  35:27

I mean, you were just going to carry me into glory land. You know what I mean, from here, like I don’t ever need to talk to anyone.

Jonathan Van Ness  35:36

What is it? Who is it? Why is it so perfect?

SuChin Pak  35:38

Honestly, like, I have to tell you I don’t even know. It’s probably like a Nyx, it’s a pencil. LA girl. You can get it at CVS.

Jonathan Van Ness  35:50

I haven’t mastered it yet. I’m trying it’s like really, fucking pretty. I knew just so we’re clear. Okay,

SuChin Pak  35:57

Thank you so much. I’m so glad one Zoom. And I’m so glad that this is recorded.

Jonathan Van Ness  36:01

Like you’re really pretty.

SuChin Pak  36:08

This is gonna be my ASMR tonight as I like meditate. I feel good about myself. My affirmations. You know what I mean? But it’s like, oh, thank you, Claire. are producers like we’ll give you a copy of this. Of course. You’re gonna give me a copy of this. Hello. Speaking of makeup, you have some makeup in your cart. Let’s talk about this. REM beauty eyeshadow palette. Is it cream?

Jonathan Van Ness  36:32

It’s a powder. It’s amazing. I also love her concealers. Love her eyeshadows. Yeah, they’re great.

SuChin Pak  36:44

I’d like that it mixes matte with a little bit of shimmer. Like each palette has both. Because sometimes you don’t feel it.

Jonathan Van Ness  36:51

What I’m really into is doing like matte on my lid and then doing shimmer on like my inner corner. Like I’m really going through that phase right now. And so that’s what I do a lot of. But just to be clear, I’m obsessed with her like I would like you could like I would literally lay down on a puddle face down and let her walk over my fucking back to get on a bus like, my love for her runs like a really deep like, I fucking love her. Truthfully, she this one time. This one time she unfollowed me on Instagram, because she I knew it was gonna happen. I just know because I met her through Pete The first time I met her like when they dated. And I just was like, Jonathan, just be prepared. Like, I know it’s gonna happen. And I probably would too, like it would probably and so but I just, you know, just prepare yourself and because I’m base hack, you know, I’m basic. And so I was just like, oh my god, it’s gonna hurt. And you know, she’s like a year older than her. It’s like, hi, can you put pressure on somebody? And then three days later, the Holy Spirit told me it was time to look and I looked and she had unfollowed me and I was you know, I had to scream into a pillow. I was just completely like, just, I was like, oh my god, like how many queer people can literally say that I’ve literally been unfollowed by Ariana. I just kept coffee dancing. I just kept coffee dancing. I just kept tagging her and I just needed her to know that no matter what, like, I’m gonna because like, I know that as a person. I’m enough of a person to love both, like what I normally see but like when there’s a breakup, like, unless like there’s like something like, you know, super untoward? Yeah, like, I just, I there’s enough for me to love both of you. And I’m saying I was like, I’m just gonna love both. I just like love both and I just cut tagging. And I kept tagging because she’s not blocking me honey, but I just think he’s hanging and then after like, a couple years, like the Holy Spirit told me like earlier this year, like it was like it just this one day woke up in the house. It was like check the Instagram and see if she followed you back. And she had, and so I just feel like wow, you know I’m saying, yeah.

SuChin Pak  38:53

And also like singular, in voice, in freezing, like who can turn a sexual phrase into something candy pop lollipop that you don’t even know is the nastiest shit you’ve ever heard.

Jonathan Van Ness  39:23

Cuz she’s just like magic. Just like magic. But a finger to the pen and then she snaps it, just like magic. She’s so good.

SuChin Pak  39:36

I’m just so glad that Holy Spirit moved me.

Jonathan Van Ness  40:50

Her new blonde hair, that blonde hair she posts on Instagram the other day for wicked, honey, she got her like wicked fucking hair and makeup of adding that to the car I’m about to go honey blonde.

SuChin Pak  41:22

Okay, before I let you go. We are connected through the Holy Spirit.

Jonathan Van Ness  41:30

I love you so much I can’t stand it.

SuChin Pak  41:36

We’ve put by the way in this time, like I feel like we’ve been we kind of like, sidle up to each other. I came on strong because I knew I wouldn’t, I couldn’t control it. But that’s okay. Because guess what, I knew I was going to do it and I knew was going to be okay. Because once we settled into it, and you know, we had some differing opinions too. W

Jonathan Van Ness  46:39

My therapist says that, your relationships grow through disruption. And we did that a lot of times.

SuChin Pak  47:34

A few times and I am confrontation like, like a stamp is confrontational to me, voicemails are confrontational to me. Everything is confrontation to me, you know, and that’s through trauma, again, that’s confrontational to me. And so I have been sweating here. But also I’ve been learning through this, that I have to sit in my confrontation because not everything is confrontation. You know what I mean? Like some of it is totally fine.

Jonathan Van Ness  49:13

I think you need to get up on fucking goddamn, where do you live?

SuChin Pak  49:20

I live in Santa Barbara.

Jonathan Van Ness  49:23

Bitch, I hate to tell you this. But Margaret Cho told me that’s not to name drop. She did tell me you are made to be a stand-up comedian. She told me that in 2014 and she was right. And this little bird in my ear just I feel like you are..

SuChin Pak  49:40

Never going to happen. Again confrontation. It’s already, I’m like sweating. Just the thought of it.

Jonathan Van Ness  49:52

I am done, with the self-limiting beliefs. My corporate coach would she would say that is a self-limiting belief that people want to see it. You can put on some fucking Henry rose fragrance that we took on that for your armpits if you’re feeling like it’s giving too much robust. I also love that native deodorant. Get on some of that they got the invisible one and just lean into that fear. You know, you grow and you’re uncomfortable. If you’re this funny, like when you’re not like in front of people and nervous, like, I really think you could be like powerfully holier on stage. I really do. I also really liked when you were saying about your crustiness like, you can sit in your crustiness, that was hilarious. You’ve been saying hilarious stuff this whole time. And the funniest part is that you like aren’t aware of how funny it is. But I think there is a part that it does kind of no, because you can’t be that funny just like be clueless to it. You know, I’m saying so I think I’m in a few years. If I’ve been canceled for some reason, I’ll take my commission because I can’t believe we’re gonna become like a literally comedian, bitch. Oh my god.

SuChin Pak  50:56

I’m gonna be the deadest name on your roster, but still, you’re going to love me.

Jonathan Van Ness  51:04

But we’re here for it. It’s a dry comedy.

SuChin Pak  51:07

Now, where can people find you? And also like, what you’re working on like next, like what are you most excited about?

Jonathan Van Ness  51:13

I mean, I think JVN hair is like, just something that I’m like so perpetually in love with and excited for we have some really exciting things coming up for this next year that I’m like so excited about. And we just came out with our blowout milk which is like, I’ve been doing hair for a long time. This white milk is like the most a one stop shop, the most amazing heat protected of all time. Your hair would live for it. Not that it needs it. It would just live for it. Have you tried to blow up milk yet?

SuChin Pak  51:36

Yes, I have I got it in the PR package after I paid full price.

Jonathan Van Ness  51:41

Did you use it on this blow dry?

SuChin Pak  51:43

I did, just right here though. Because I don’t blow dry the rest. I just do a little bit on the bank. That’s all I can really do. But trust me, I know it doesn’t look like much. But I’ve got so much baby hair from post pregnancy a million years ago. And I do it I have a little infrared sauna; I do a little scalp oil. I go soak it in, and then everyone.

Jonathan Van Ness  52:12

You could try just a little bit of blow up milk on your hairline, like you said, but then you could switch to insert recovery serum on your ends. But honestly, a dab of […] through your ends like wouldn’t hurt her and like it just and also then you can blow dry it and it’ll kind of be like bigger and like that once a year and it’ll last longer. And so there’s like we’re like I’m afraid of like heat on my hands. I don’t want to hurt it like because you’re going through whatever. But actually, if you have like a buffer on there, like a Dyson protector, it actually will provide like a better longer lasting look. And it’s actually less damaging your hair to get the water out of it faster than to like, let the water sit in it longer. There’s a thing called like hydro fatigue or like because when your hair is wet, it expands. And it’s like stretchier, and then when it’s drying it shrinks. So that process takes over a longer time. If you think about like your shirt, it’s really similar to like fabric. So like if you were to like wet your shirt down and then just like let it air dry, like all day every day. It’s like just too much time wet for the hair, like for the fabric to be stretched here. So it’s kind of better to get like get the water out.

SuChin Pak  53:17

Yeah, yeah, no, these are all things that I’ve just learned by watching you, by listening to other podcasts that have changed for me, my very difficult relationship, my you know, contentious relationship with my hair over the years.

Jonathan Van Ness  53:34

Just like cotton t shirt to get the extra water out if you’re not going to like blow dry it like an extra cotton t shirt to like really wring the water out like it’s going to make the air dry happen faster. I also do love our air dry clean for your mid links and it’s like a little like pee if you’re like if you don’t want to like there’s like, just like a little it’s pretty. I love your haircut so great.

SuChin Pak  53:53

Listen, I know how busy you are. And just thank you so much. And it’s just been a pleasure and I knew it would be and I’ve grown as a person. And I love you for it.

Jonathan Van Ness  54:06

Love you too. Thanks for having me.

SuChin Pak  54:11

That is all for today. I hope you enjoyed my epic conversation with Jonathan. Check out their podcast Getting Curious with Jonathan Van Ness. You can also find all their wonderful Add to Cart items on our Instagram as always at @AddToCartPod, okay, bye for now.\

Kulap Vilaysack  54:32

There’s more ADD TO CART with Lemonada Premium, you’ll get access to all of Lemonada’s premium content including our premium episode where Paul Scheer tells us about his favorite gifts for stocking stuffers. Subscribe now in Apple podcast right where you listen to the show. ADD TO CART is a production of Lemonada Media. Our producer is Claire Jones and our mix is by Ivan Kuraev and Veronica Rodriguez. The music is by Wasahhbii and produced by La Made It and Oh So Familiar with additional music by APM music. Executive producers are Kulap Vilaysack, SuChin Pak, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Wittels Wachs. Be sure to check out all the items we mentioned today on our Instagram at @AddToCartPod. Also, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast.