Dishwasher or Daredevil? (with Jenny Slate)
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Jenny Slate sits down with Sam to talk about the difference between FOMO and regret and how sometimes you need to bust through a wall to take a big swing. Jenny talks about how she is naturally risk averse and giving birth was the most dangerous (and best) situation she ever put herself in. They talk about Jenny’s need to do the dishes before she can enjoy a meal and philosophize over the clothes that ghosts in the future will wear—perhaps athleisure?
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Transcript
SPEAKERS
Jenny Slate, Samantha Bee
Samantha Bee 00:00
In the United States alone, there are, on average, 10,000 babies born every day. Wow. Oh, that is so many future podcast listeners. Unfortunately, though, giving birth in the US is way more dangerous than it should be, the US has the highest maternal mortality rate of any high income country. Look, I don’t want to talk about the maternal mortality rate either. It does not scream comedy, and frankly, it makes me very sad, but it is too important to ignore, which is why I have some serious choice words for the fact that our country has seemingly become numb to this problem. Giving birth to a baby is a truly incredible accomplishment of the body. I actually can’t get over it sometimes, and it is by nature, dangerous and complicated and natural. All those things can be true, but for something that happens 10,000 times a day, I feel like we should be able to ensure that no woman, regardless of race or class, ever needs to worry that her doctor won’t listen to her pain, won’t take her concerns seriously, and won’t be able to deliver her baby safely and protect her health and life at the same time, it is an unacceptable risk that we make Pregnant women take. I know we can do better.
Samantha Bee 03:14
This is Choice Words, I’m Samantha Bee, my guest today is the kind and funny Jenny Slate. Her new book, Life Form, explores these themes of motherhood and is written so beautifully, and we talk about how as people, we are naturally averse to risk giving birth is one of the scarier things we’ve ever done. So take a listen and make good choices.
Jenny Slate 03:43
Thanks for having me.
Samantha Bee 03:45
Oh, my God, I’m so excited to be talking to you.
Jenny Slate 03:48
Me too, hi.
Samantha Bee 03:50
Oh, I’m a very big fan of.
Jenny Slate 03:53
Same here.
Samantha Bee 03:54
Oh, dear. I just I can see myself in the recording, and I noticed that I I’m dressed like the mom from Little House on the Prairie. I don’t know if you ever watched.
Jenny Slate 04:02
I watched it. If I could sneak it. You know, we weren’t, like, really allowed to watch a ton of TV, but I watched it. Yeah. I mean, we’re almost in the same color. I’ve got a mock turtle.
Samantha Bee 04:15
I’ve got a little frilly Mock Turtle. That’s so funny that your Alyssa like, escape, if you could sneak TV was so incredibly whole.
Jenny Slate 04:25
So literally, yeah, I mean, we had the, you know, like the TV with the two knobs, and you would put it on you to get, like, the other channels and and we didn’t have cable, and there was no TV Guide in our house, so everything just sort of felt like maybe it’s sort of like seeing a bird in the sky, like, maybe today will, you know, maybe it’ll fly on by, like, you know, who knows.
Samantha Bee 04:48
Half pint is gonna turn her on butter?
Jenny Slate 04:50
That’s right.
Samantha Bee 04:51
She’s gonna, oh, boy. Okay, so before we, like, the launch point of this podcast is that we talk about, like, big life. Choices, and kind of like, what your relationship is with the choices that you make and how you come to those big decisions. And then we just talk about whatever. So great. I like that. And we really want to talk about your book. I’m so excited for you. Thank you. Wow. Okay, so how are are you good? Are you good at making decisions, or like, there is no good and bad. What are you like as a big decision maker?
Jenny Slate 05:25
Well, um, my husband says this about me, and I think it’s true. You know, sometimes it’s like, like I am saying my husband says this because otherwise it’s just, it’s too much of it feels like a really, really big brag or something. But I am, I think I’m a very good decision maker. Yeah, I don’t experience a lot of like regret. I experience regret. No, no, I experience regret. I will say I don’t have really any FOMO. Do I say FOMO? I mean, am I gonna say that? I don’t really speak whatever.
Samantha Bee 05:59
I don’t know, but it came out.
Jenny Slate 06:02
Yeah, I’m not a FOMO person, I guess, but I know I do have regret. I will say, like, sometimes I’m not impulsive. It’s usually very easy for me to understand what I want and what I want to do, and like, where I want to go, and I take big swings often, knowing that it might not be super easy, but that, like, essentially, I kind of need to, like, bust through that wall that’s there. Like, it’s like, we gotta go over there, you know, like, I gotta get into this area of my life. So I was gonna freaking go.
Samantha Bee 06:38
Just going, like, it’s scary, or it feels like you can’t predict an outcome of something. Is that like, I mean, literally, we were, I was we were going to talk about the book. But is that like, how you felt about when you were approaching writing the book? Were you like, I’m trying this, I want this.
Jenny Slate 06:55
Yeah, I mean, well, like, everything is always a combination for me. I feel like, so I I’d written a book before this one. My first book was called Little weirds. That one was like, Oh, I appear to be writing a book. I’m writing a book. And then, like, I kind of had, like, a packet of pieces, and was able to, like, sell the book based on those pieces. And I was, like, getting divorced, and I was like, I don’t know, like, at that point, like I was, sort of, I just, I was, like, single, everything sort of felt, it felt like very difficult, but also open and exciting and, like, whatever. And then this time I, like, was like, three weeks pregnant. I got pregnant on the first night of lockdown in 2020.
Samantha Bee 07:40
The first night of lockdown?
Jenny Slate 07:41
Yeah, first night.
Samantha Bee 07:43
Okay.
Jenny Slate 07:44
And I think out of fear, I, like, got in touch with my publishers and my editor, and was like, I should write another book. Don’t you think, like, I think I should write another book. Don’t you think first one did so, like, the first one did it did. Like, well, it was good. It was like, That was a great experience. Oh, I would love to do this again. But it was really out of fear, because it was like, Oh, great. Now there’s a plague, and I’m pregnant. And like, you know, I’m like, really departing from the shores of the painful shores of being an ingenue, and like, what’s out there for me? Like, who knows. And I’m really glad that I had the assignment. But for the then over two years that I could write nothing at all because I was, like, so tired and freaked out and like, had just kind of, like a creative block that was, like, a really, really hard but that said, because I went through that now that the book is complete and I really like it, I experience. It’s not release. It’s like, whoa. I’m so grateful that I did this because it was really hard.
Samantha Bee 08:48
Wow, it’s like, that’s very prescient of you to be like, I have to put something creative on the schedule, with no kind of like, knowledge of whether it could really execute it in a way, like, just, like doing a thing.
Jenny Slate 09:07
I know I think so, like, it’s like, I mean, sometimes you can only do what you have the capability to do at the time. Like, it’s like, this is the best thing I could have done. So I did the best thing that moved me forward. But I think also what I learned from that is that, like, I would like to reduce the amount of decisions I made. I make out of desperation and fear when I could also perhaps just tolerate being in a moment of like, zero forward motion, like, like, sometimes there is inertia, and that’s like, okay.
Samantha Bee 09:45
Right, do you now that you have, I mean, you were pregnant in the pandemic, you had your baby. Your baby is now two or three. Two or three.
Jenny Slate 09:53
She’s almost four, she’s almost, yeah, she’s like, three years, nine months.
Samantha Bee 09:58
Oh, amazing.
Jenny Slate 10:00
I love being I know me too.
Samantha Bee 10:01
I do love little children. Are you more able now to take moments where you’re like, I’m not gonna do a thing, or I’m not gonna do I’m only gonna focus on this thing, this child, or this one thing, or I really able to kind of like, bifurcate and just give yourself that space.
Jenny Slate 10:19
I think that that’s been one of the main things that I’ve learned about myself as a parent, is that, like, I am a person that has kind of many things going on at once. Like, that’s just, that’s the nature of what it’s like to be like a writer, a comedian and an actor. Like, there you do have different projects, sort of in different stages or whatever. And I don’t prefer that at all. Like, I really don’t like that. I remember seeing Adrian Brody on succession and and saying to my husband, like, you know what? That’s what I want. I just want for everyone to be like, Wow, what a great actor. Let’s, like, give her an awesome part, and she, she just shows up and does like one thing. Like, I am not trying to do many things. I don’t actually want to like, I like to chill out, but like, and sometimes it is just that I’m like, I feel very interested, so I decide to do another thing, but, and it’s like, Why did I add one more thing? But I think as a parent, I’m like, I don’t feel very like, happy and satisfied, or like, good about myself when I’m with my daughter, but there’s like, a looming deadline or something, okay, you know, like, like, now I just feel like it’s like, if there’s work to do, I’m gonna do it when she’s like, you know, she’s at preschool. But like, once we’re together, like, I can’t multitask, I just have to, like, be with her. I actually think, like, the reason why I ended up being able to write this book is because my husband went away for 10 days, and I brought my daughter, who was at that point, like, two and a half, to my parents house. But like, it was nice to have the company. But like, my mom was, she was actually watching my one of my other siblings, child children. So, like, she couldn’t really help me. I just mostly had companionship, but, like, I was just all childcare all the time, like, 10 days, and it was just like, I’m not gonna I can’t do anything else. I honestly can’t and I’m just doing this the like, single focus, single task, like, cleaned my brain.
Samantha Bee 12:37
I totally appreciate that. I think that is so it does it cleans your brain. Like, takes us a scrubber to your brain. Like, I have found that I have three kids, and when they were little, it was, there was there was no real possibility to take work home. Uh huh. Like, it couldn’t happen, yeah. So you kind of get more productive when you’re working, because you have to drop it when you’re with your children, they will not permit. They will not They forced you to. It’s almost like a med. It’s like hard work, but also a meditation, because you’re so separated from everything else, and you’re just like, now we do this
Jenny Slate 13:15
Totally I’m also like, just in a really basic way, eternally threatened by the like, you know, the song that’s like, the cats and the cradles and the zoo, like, just like, such a bummer. And like, even as a kid, hearing that song, like, I just was like, Oh my God, this old man, he’s like, so filled with regret. And it just bummed me out so much. And like, every time that I have to be like, I’ll be right there, babe. I just have to, like, you know, take this call from whatever it is. Like, I just like, it’s like, I’m walking, you know, into my bedroom and, like, closing the door, and I can hear her be like, Mama, and I’m like, I’m trying to have this conversation. And I just hear, like, when you’re coming home, but, oh no.
Samantha Bee 14:02
Like, I will get together.
Jenny Slate 14:05
It’s such a sad like, and the fact that that guy, even I don’t, I can’t even remember who’s saying. Like, can you imagine sitting down being like, what bummer could I do to everyone I catch you tune, so let’s make sure they kind of like the tune. And, great, yeah, awesome and that, but that it’s, like, super threatening, and.
Samantha Bee 14:24
Let me serve up this dose of real, oh my God for you, so that it’s a tune you can, like, hum and everybody knows, off by heart that’s about a constant regret on a man’s death.
Jenny Slate 14:35
Totally, it’s so weird. And like, I remember learning that song like at day camp, like, being in, like, he chooses a day camp. Like, it was, like, one of the songs we learned so weird.
Samantha Bee 14:47
Oh yeah, all the I feel like all the songs on the rotation at day camp were just ours. Were like, like, hard rock and, like, very sexual. I’m a lot older than you, but it was a lot of, like. Okay, we’re making lanyards, but also we’re listening to foreigners, yeah, so hot blood. Everybody get into it.
Jenny Slate 15:08
I remember the summer at camp when, like, ever, like, day camp, and everyone was singing Kokomo. You know? It was like.
Samantha Bee 15:17
Yeah, escape.
Jenny Slate 15:21
I mean that also is like, something about the 80s that everyone was obsessed with, like palm trees and pina coladas and stuff.
Samantha Bee 15:29
What is a parrot head? There was like, such a and then all those people just moved to Key West, and they do live that life where they’re just, like, drinking from coconuts, and they’re all like, so tame, they’re so leathery, yeah, just leatherback turtles.
Jenny Slate 15:47
Totally, man, gotta get out in that sun. Just get toasted, totally.
Samantha Bee 15:53
There’s more Choice Words in just a moment.
Samantha Bee 18:30
Your book is not. It’s not like a very it’s not a typical style of memoir. It’s not, like this happened and then something else crazy thing happened. And here’s a story about it. It’s just a beautiful book. It’s not even necessarily a comedy book. It’s just a beautiful book that is fun.
Jenny Slate 19:26
Thank you.
Samantha Bee 19:27
I do love how you talk about the first moments and days of motherhood when you’re like, learning to be a mother and you want to be the person who, like, rolls up and can fix everything and but it’s also like you’re a mammal, something your mom did, and your mom’s mom and you have a new name. How did you decide to write the book this way? Did you even decide, or did it just come out that way?
Jenny Slate 19:50
Yeah, this is just the way it is. You know, like, I think, if I’m really trying to describe, I guess, what’s important to me, or, like, what’s been significant. Yeah, and if the like aim is to just sort of expose an archive and just try to, like, transmit an experience, then the pressure is off me like that. You know, if it was more like, these are essays or whatever, I don’t even think of it as memoir. I just think of it as like. These are just pieces about experiences. But, yeah, it just turns out this is kind of how I write like some people have, like a singing voice, that it’s just what they sound like. I think this is just what I sound like.
Samantha Bee 20:35
You also describe a lot of visions and like dreams that do you write down? How do you because, how do you hold on to that? Are you like, a wake up in the middle of the night and write it down person? I wish I was not often. I’m like, this is a $1 billion idea. Let me just for sure wake up and have forgotten.
Jenny Slate 20:53
Oh, my god, yeah. I mean, I do have, like, a book by the bed, but I don’t have a lot of dreams. I have, like, like, actually, like, pretty boring ones, but when I was pregnant, I did a lot of, like, weird naps, you know, and stuff like that. And I’m just, like a real space cadet, like, i i space out. I’m so spaced out. I’m like, imagining something, and it’s not a dream, like, I’m not unconscious, but, you know, I’m doing the dishes, and I’m just, like, fully thinking about just like, yeah, a daydream, actually, literally, a daydream, yeah, yeah. And I, I think that’s what I’m like. And I do try to, like, journal. I used to do it every day. And then sometimes I just, like, if I get up in the morning and and there’s like, a mess in the kitchen, it’s just like, I can’t really settle down until everything’s clean and, Oh God, it’s so bad. And sometimes I miss my journal time because of that.
Samantha Bee 21:58
Are you? I’m like that too. I can’t actually focus my brain unless everything is really tidy.
Jenny Slate 22:05
Yeah, it’s really hard. I I would like to stop being that way. I’m just trying to, like, scooch out of that mode. I did it today, like there’s a sink full of dishes, like, over there, okay? And I’m letting it be there, and I’m trying to forget about it.
Samantha Bee 22:22
That’s hard.
Jenny Slate 22:24
Yeah.
Samantha Bee 22:25
I feel like we could talk at length about that, because I’m 50 turning 55 and it actually is something that does intensify. I think when you hit perimenopause, this like need to put things into places, yes, so that you can clear your brain space.
Jenny Slate 22:43
I think that’s exactly it. I mean, a couple of sessions ago, my therapist was like, do you think you’re maybe over identifying with the dishwasher? And I was like, Oh, okay. Like, I mean, yes, because it’s like, if you have, if you have a child, and you’re changing as your child changes, like, hopefully that happens, and that also means that there’s a way to really feel the energy of your life around you, in the world around you, your reality as these sort of, like, shifting planks and like, everything’s just, it’s really in motion. It’s all it’s trending towards the positive and growth. But it also means for me that anything that I can put away and like, see as like, at rest and in its spot and needing nothing and being quiet is, like, really important to me. And like, it’s like, clearing a space so that somebody can do a weird dance in the middle of it, like, I just, what is the, what is the the lowest amount of in the middle of things that we can have, you know, like, what is the lowest amount of that? And like, I just, I just want it makes me feel calm. But this is the first time in my life that I’ve been like, do I have light? OCD. I don’t think I do, but it seems to probably to other people that I do.
Samantha Bee 24:05
I just find this so relatable. I often reflect on it and think, okay, like I’m trying to I can’t control the universe, like I don’t have the capacity to control the world. I don’t have the capacity to control the world of my children when they’re out of the house, like one is in college or whatever, you know, they’re all doing their own thing. And I’m like, okay, I just can control the universe of this place. And it’s nice to just be able to control one thing. But it does get it is probably like, OCD.
Jenny Slate 24:41
I know, so I have some other friends who are parents and have experienced kind of the same thing, but I don’t notice my husband doing it. I don’t I don’t notice him doing it, and I don’t think that he I don’t think he finds a. Lot of, like, importance or legitimacy in my concern, like, it’s so I totally get it. I totally understand how, like, I don’t I’ve never really exactly understood the phrase, like, when people are like, you’re losing the forest for the trees. But what I think is a good example of that is, like, I have made a dinner, and the dinner is on the table and it’s hot, and it’s the time to eat it. But I’m like, right? Like, I don’t really want to sit you do this until we close all the cabinets and, like, you know, like, I want to do the dishes so that we don’t have, you know, then, then when we’re done with the dinner, there wouldn’t be more dishes in the sink. And it’s like, great, but now the dinner That was hot, it’s becoming lukewarm because you’re like, an idiot.
Samantha Bee 25:40
Kind of like the problem with this type of mini OCD is that everybody else really, truly benefits from it, right? Because it’s really, like a neat and tidy and there’s always dinner.
Jenny Slate 25:50
Totally and then. So I also feel like that’s what that is tough, because it’s like, These just happen to be my standards. But like, my husband’s like, a pretty chill dude you could do with a lot less. Like, he doesn’t need sure a homemade Marcella has on pasta sauce or whatever. Like, he’s like, right? I’m totally fine with, like, Ragu brand. Like, nobody asked you to do this, you know? And it’s like, oh, he appreciates it, but right? I’m like, It’s better, yeah.
Samantha Bee 26:22
You’re like, but I like it, but it this tastes better.
Jenny Slate 26:24
Yeah, I do think, though, like, my my issue with it is not that I feel like, I don’t like, I don’t feel underappreciated. My issue with it, it’s a me thing that I’m like, you know what, Jenny, like, this is your way of somehow proving to the like, mean headmistress inside of your psyche that you have, you’ve done a good job today. And, you know, like you did it, and it’s like, it’s all like, high quality, you know, you did it. And like, I’m at the point now where I’m like, I have to find another way to self define as, like, you know, a legitimate adult who’s, like, doing a good job, whatever that means, because this is not the way. This isn’t I’m like, it doesn’t feel good to be like this.
Samantha Bee 27:17
Right, well, I’m happy for your sink of dirty dishes, and it’s fine, there someone else could do them. It’s okay.
Jenny Slate 27:28
Also being an actor, it’s like, when, when I go to work and I’m on set, I’m not like, Oh no, you know is like, is everything okay at home? Like, do we have toilet paper? Like, I completely trust my husband to totally keep everything going. So I know that there’s a version of me where these concerns, like, are just completely irrelevant.
Samantha Bee 27:52
It’s very comforting to have a partner who you are, partners who you’re like, actually, this doesn’t have to be this way. Like, I appreciate that someone is actually there, yeah? You know, someone’s like, filling in the cracks, like there is a foundation, yeah?
Jenny Slate 28:07
Yeah, totally.
Samantha Bee 28:08
Can, okay, let’s just get we’ll have to off channel about what I’m like before I go on an airplane. Oh, god, yeah, I swear to God, it’s like, it’s like, did you ever see Thelma and Louise?
Jenny Slate 28:19
Course.
Samantha Bee 28:20
You know that scene where Susan Sarandon, I can’t ever remember which one it was named which where she’s going on the trip, and then she has like, one clean dish shell, and she has one sip of water, and then she puts the glass Princess the glass, or puts it on the tea towel. Like, I’m like.
Jenny Slate 28:38
Yep, totally. I know it’s so weird. I’ve been told from their life that I’m messy, and now it turns out that I’m not there.
Samantha Bee 28:48
Who knew? Okay, I do want to talk about Section phase three and phase four, which are pregnancy and baby. From you have this great line about how when you were about to have your baby, you found out there had been an earthquake at your home in Massachusetts and everything was okay, and you were like the house had been shaken, but it was still a house, and that kind of gave you clarity about your body. This is such a huge question, but how do you relate to your body now, a few years hence, postpartum.
Jenny Slate 29:21
I think there’s so much really unhelpful and actually hurtful and threatening discussion about, like, the postpartum body and like snapping back or whatever, and and even if you have an opinion about whether or Not that is, like, just preposterous and like a terrible thing to put on on people. It doesn’t mean that it’s still not threatening. And like, if you’re aware of standards, then you’re aware of them, even if you’re like, but I don’t prescribe to that, like, it can still hurt your feelings. Yeah. And what has been surprising to me. Is that I’m not living with the, like, the strain or energy of opposition, like, when you’re pushing back on something, but that, like, I mean, like, I like, like, clothes and, you know, like, I’m like, shopping. Like, it’s not like, I’m like, and now I don’t care like, but it’s, it’s more than I’m, like, I don’t care though. Like, like, I used to partner more with this voice, and I write about it in the book. There’s, like, this piece about, it’s a letter to a doctor just asking if I can just, like, become old, because, like, I’m so fucking annoyed about the stress around the struggle of, like, what do you do between 40 and 80? My feelings about my body are that I really don’t want it to get cancer. I feel very upset at myself for the 18 years that I smoked cigarettes on and off. I want to, like, take good care of it. And I realized, like, I’m like, wow, that was not my first concern about my body, before I had the baby. And then once I was, like, growing this thing in my body, I was not one of the, like, I was a pregnant person that was like, Oh no, I can’t have turkey cold cuts, you know. Like, I wasn’t like, I was like, but I wasn’t like, all organic, like, you know, I was still kind of, you know, eating Doritos and stuff. We flew back to LA for me to have the baby. And I think the last thing that I like got doordashed to our house was like, gummy bears and Tums the temple. This is not like but, but now, the way I feel about my body is, I’m just like, it’s a mystery, but it also is an incredible, incredible apparatus of science, right? And it is me. I can’t really, like, take credit for it, because I didn’t, like, invent human beings, you know, like, I’m not the I’m not the designer. I hate to, you know, I’m gonna drop this bomb on this podcast today and let everyone know that I am not actually the Lord. It’s crazy, like, I’m not the biblical Lord, the storied Lord, but yeah, also as, like, I mean, I was raised Jewish, but I am like, a functional, sort of, like, atheist and like, I’m just like, whoa. This is crazy that my body did this, and I feel very, very not judgmental about my body anymore.
Samantha Bee 32:24
That’s great.
Jenny Slate 32:25
Yeah, it’s weird, because you would think I would maybe feel the opposite, but like I just kind of feel like, Oh my God. Like, I’m just so glad something is over.
Samantha Bee 32:38
Right, there is something. So I do remember, like, giving birth and going, I’m incredible, like an actual goddess, yes, like, what, look what I did, I don’t think anyone has ever done this before. I made a baby come.
Jenny Slate 32:57
But that is the thing is that, like, you know, I don’t know if anyone said this to you during your pregnancies, but it’s like, people were like, people have been having babies for bazillions of years. And I was like, cool well, I’ve actually never had one, even one time. So I’m, yeah.
Samantha Bee 33:15
I don’t have a I don’t have a memory of this. I don’t have, like, a sense memory.
Jenny Slate 33:19
I’m the newest team member here. I’ve never gone through the motions before, like I and I’m not a natural risk taker in my body. Like I’m not, and I was saying this in my last stand up special but like, I am not an adrenaline junkie. I don’t even want to ride a bike. I’m not. I am probably emotionally very intense. I think, like, I’m a very sensitive person, but I am not looking to prove myself via a physical thing, right? And I like, I think actually giving birth was, like, one of my central fears. And before I met my husband, I didn’t even think I wanted to have kids, right, right? I was so frightened by it. And like in every way, physically and emotionally and like. So it was deeply new for me, and the fact that, like, I did it, it was not perfect, but it was perfect for me and for our family, and our family exists, and our daughter was like, okay, and I’m okay. Like that is not I don’t have anything else that’s ever happened to me that’s similar to that.
Samantha Bee 34:25
There’s more choice words in just a moment.
Samantha Bee 34:33
I love the way that you speak about it, because I think, like, we do such a bad job, particularly, actually in North America. If I can go ahead and say that, like, of making we don’t do a good job of making people less scared to have children, we don’t like talk about the joy of it. And we don’t talk about we only talk about the things that are terrifying about it, like almost kind of frame it as like a disease or like a horrible thing that your body’s going like awful experience. And then you’re never gonna be. You’re not gonna be the same, and then your children are just like a drag, and they’re just like yelling at you all the time. I’m like, no, yeah. Really fun.
Jenny Slate 38:51
There are not many great examples of discussions where you can kind of have just, like a simultaneous stuff happening, like it is something that I want to do for myself, which is to create a new context, but that includes all of the real things, right? So that’s like, totally different than dissociation or denial or like lying or just being like a weird Liberty gibbet, that’s like everything’s cool, like love and light like I I want, because I am a person who, like, weirdly, is super hopeful and optimistic, and I do experience depression from time to time. I don’t want to have to choose between selves, right, like, which is the real Jenny, am I like the peppy one who thinks that, like, today is just like, there’s so many different beauties to see, or am I the one that feels numb I can’t I feel like I’m kind of a ghost in the room, like it’s all the same and and, you know, like I’m not dealing with a mental health issue that is like, oh, that sounds like bipolar or something, like, I don’t have big. Extremes. But in fact, I am a person that is like, I exist on, like, in a wave form, and I think most of us do, but it’s kind of all within one day. And I like, I can say that giving birth for me was one of the most positive experiences of my life, while also being one of the most dangerous situations that I’ve been in, and that I felt at once victorious and scared, and that I felt at once like incredibly supported in like, medical ways, emotional ways, and also was 100% alone without being lonely. Like, it’s like, I’m just trying to, like, figure that out, and if I have to choose one, that means that part of my experience in myself falls away, and then I start to feel weird. So I’m like trying to write like, how do we just say that there are many components, but create a new context, like in my specific voice, so that we don’t have to rely on those, like, old tropes of either, like, you’re the, you know, the lady that started Moon juice, or whatever, you’re, like a fancy juice company in LA and for some reason, you’re just really good at everything. Like, I felt really confused about the sort of, like Earth Mother movement that I felt was the I really understand why that’s there. And there’s a lot about that that I think is really beautiful, but I also think, like, because patriarchy sucks so much, like, we were like, really geared towards being like, don’t let them make a decision for you. And then I felt confused about my own decision to be like, I want an epidural. Ah, you know, like, I don’t want to feel a taint rip man. Like, I want, right, well.
Samantha Bee 41:49
How much do you, like, tune into all that? Because, like, like, do you absorb all that? Like, well, first of all, I want to say that I appreciate how much you bring your whole self to your work, and I think like you feel that that’s why you’re I don’t know that’s why I as a fan. I’m like, yes, because like, I feel like you approach everything that you do with like, just honesty and just like, openness. I don’t know I feel it as a viewer or like I feel it as an audience member, but like.
Jenny Slate 42:22
I’m glad, I mean, and that’s not to say I’m not trying to, like, I have many good friends who I respect, and I totally like, I’m like, I’m glad they did it that they were, like, in a birthing tub in their house, right? Yeah. But, you know, like, and I’m not so I’m not against any one way trust to do anything. All I want is to be able to make the decisions that are like, from my mental state and my body like, if we’re trying to say, you know that like empowered stance is being able to make choices right when there are a lot of like intersecting situations, that’s what I want. And I remember being like, I don’t want to feel shame or less natural or less courageous, because I know for sure that I want to get an epidural.
Samantha Bee 43:13
Oh, no.
Jenny Slate 43:15
You know what I mean. When I was pregnant, I was like, give me all the info. Okay. What’s it like on the like, the place called the farm. Like, did you ever read that book by like, Aina Mae something. And it was like, Oh, this seems so wonderful for these women. But I don’t want that, yeah? Because I really want more medicine, yeah. But like, I also want the chance of, I guess, trying to push the baby out. Because, like, I don’t know what that’s like, you know? And like, I just, like, took everything in and finally tried to figure out, like, what seems the most like me in a situation that doesn’t seem like me at all.
Samantha Bee 43:51
Right, yeah that’s so funny. I remember, like, I have, because I grew up in Canada where people do, like, people have, some people have home births. It’s more done there because there’s the medical system supports it. It’s not done a lot, but it’s an option for you that’s, like, more reasonable because they have, like, there are things in place for you. If you go down that path. And my friends were like, we’re gonna do that. And I was like, that’s so great. I’m not no thank you, and then.
Jenny Slate 44:23
Yeah, that’s not where my inclination to be challenged lies.
Samantha Bee 44:28
Yeah, there’s life has enough challenges. I mean, God bless. Like, go for it that’s.
Jenny Slate 44:33
Not every challenge needs to be accepted like that. You know what? I mean, like, I’m just like, you don’t that’s not how, at least for me, like that, is not how I prove myself to myself, like I’m never gonna prove whether or not I’m courageous by like, jumping out of a plane.
Samantha Bee 44:50
Oh no.
Jenny Slate 44:52
I don’t want to.
Samantha Bee 44:53
No, that sounds awful. Also going on roller coasters is so bad. What is it? Why? Me, it’s so scary before you’re like, nervous the whole time. And then they do the thing where you go slowly up the I’m like, No, I don’t, I don’t need that.
Jenny Slate 45:10
It’s so weird. It was, there was like a pocket of time when I was like, I like it, right? I like Space Mountain, okay? And then all of a sudden it was like, I don’t need that. First I was like, I don’t need it. I don’t want it. No roller coasters. That was like, that was like 32 years of my life. Then weirdly, I was like, roller coasters, interesting. Like it, I like it. And then that was like, four years. And then it was like, never again. No roller coasters. I don’t, I don’t like, I don’t want. Why would I be upside down?
Samantha Bee 45:41
And also, who do you think it’s, like, so much worse when everybody tries to convince you to do the thing and your body knows, yeah, your body’s like, it’s not a good idea for me. Like, I just, I don’t know why. I don’t even know why it’s bad to go on a trampoline right now. I’m not even sure. And then you do it, because everyone’s like, jump. And you’re like, okay, and then you’re like, nope, guys, yeah, I have an injury my pelvic floor. And I knew it, my body tried to tell me, and then if I can listen to all you.
Jenny Slate 46:11
Oh, my God, I think, like, a big change is about to happen for me in that area, not my pelvic floor area, but like for my whole life, I’ve been, like, really scared of horses and, like, against them, basically. And like, a burgeoning curiosity exists in me. It’s like, very slow moving where I’m like, maybe I will, in like, seven years, go on a horse. It’s going really slow, but I noticed the doors opening. Okay, yeah, it’s opening. That’s but I might not get on one, but it but it is opening.
Samantha Bee 46:52
Were you ever on a horse? You’re never on a horse. Your whole life, never.
Jenny Slate 46:55
I was on a horse at Camp one summer. Okay, yeah, okay. And I was just like, Oh no, you gotta be kidding me.
Samantha Bee 47:04
Not for me. These are not meant to be. We’re not supposed to go on them. No, no. They were not born on this earth for us to be on top. They have their own. Yeah, jazz going on.
Jenny Slate 47:14
Oh, my God. I used to have, like, I can’t even remember if it I feel like I’ve tried to put my jokes about horses in, like, both of my comedy specials, and it’s, it’s always gotten taken out for time. I believe I feel like maybe I did, you know, do something on, like a late night show, like I finally saw, like, I’m going to say this thing. But the fact is that, you know, have you ever experienced the true zone, which is, it’s a convergence of, it’s a bit because you feel deeply about it, right? And it’s like, always activated, like I could go into this horse thing in my sleep. I feel it so deeply.
Samantha Bee 47:56
I don’t know. Do you everyone anyway? You know what the place to go? Have you ever been? Okay? This is a such a side. It’s a horse, but we can talk. My mom used to have horses like we could talk about and I went to Nevada a couple of years ago to see the wild horses, to talk about wild horses. And they have a whole life outside of us.
Jenny Slate 48:18
Yeah.
Samantha Bee 48:19
They’re wild animals. It was so beautiful just watching them do their the thing that they’re supposed to do. I’m not sure we need to control them. And they’re not that controllable., even when you’re on top of them, sometimes they’re like, I’m gonna fucking go over here and.
Jenny Slate 48:37
I mean, they’re not stop curious part, yeah.
Samantha Bee 48:40
I’m gonna rub you on a tree. And you’re like, what? Don’t and it’s like, no, we’re doing this.
Jenny Slate 48:46
Yeah, they’re hooves, like, like, like, they’re just, like, when they just, they they’re just gonna kick you or something. That’s crazy to me.
Samantha Bee 48:54
My mom used to know, oh, sorry. This is not about, this is not a horse podcast.
Jenny Slate 48:58
But my, I mean, it’s your podcast. You could change it. You could make it horse, could do it yeah.
Samantha Bee 49:04
My mother had horses, and she had a friend who had also horses. And, you know, sometimes horse girls can become horse women who become like, just like they’re so into it, you know, and this woman fed her horse a carrot. She would feed her horses carrots with her mouth. Oh, man, end up kissing. It was like, Lady and that she would lady in the tramp a carrot with a horse and but their teeth, yep, the horse bed.
Jenny Slate 49:29
Snow, no,
Samantha Bee 49:33
I’m like, they can’t see straight. Oh, he couldn’t see her face.
Jenny Slate 49:37
That is so gnarly. Yeah, it’s so bad. It’s like, I just don’t, you know. The other day, my husband was like, my daughter wanted to do like, a dance, like a butterfly dance, like, she was like, This is what a butterfly looks like, and I’m gonna describe it in a dance. I was like, okay, great. I like this. I’m really glad you know something like that happens, and you’re like, we’re on the right track. We’re this is a cool person. And that we’ve helped, you know, become herself so far. And she has, like, in her preschool, there you have a chrysalis, okay, like in their class. But, you know, she was on the counter, she was like, on the countertop, and there was, like, she was in her like tights, like in her little stockings, tights, and I was afraid she was gonna slip and, you know, this is just like, kind of classic Jewish upbringing, like everything in me is like, get off the thing, you know, like, I’m just like an old Jewish lady inside of my head. And my husband and I were talking about it later, and I was just like, I don’t know. It’s just like, can’t we just reduce the amount of, like, risk taking and challenges that don’t really need to happen? Like, couldn’t we have just gone into the living, you know, the other room or and just done the dance in there and, and, like, he’s right in that. It’s like, but she was safe. I was watching her, like, this is really about you, and I think that’s true, but that’s really how I feel about horses. I’m like, you have to bring that in. Like, did you have to? It’s such a it’s such a lot of work, and you’re bringing in a whole thing, and you’re amplifying the danger now, like you’re increasing it, because this is here.
Samantha Bee 51:05
Yeah, well, you know what? Take seven years. Take 10 years. It may never happen. No judgment, no judgment on this.
Jenny Slate 51:13
And if I were to do it, it’s not going to be on like a mountain, you know, like we’re not going to add in a slope. It’s like a meadow.
Samantha Bee 51:21
This is a meadow flat. The horse is probably, it’s already tired, like, been tired out. Not a stallion, like, you know, like a normal horse.
Jenny Slate 51:33
Yeah.
Samantha Bee 51:34
Like a horse has been some he’s just seen the scene, some shit. Yeah, trying to go fast. Doesn’t even want to No way. No. Thank you. Um, okay, this has been so great. I’m gonna my last, my last question to you, and this has been rollicking. I heard that you grew up in a haunted house. Um, talked about it on Rachel Dratch show. I talked about my haunted house on her show. I also grew up in a house with ghosts. Where was your What was your? Who was your house ghost? It wasn’t a single ghost.
Jenny Slate 52:08
Well, it was a single ghost for a while. I never saw it my dad saw it, and it was the ghost of a sea captain. I know.
Samantha Bee 52:20
Oh, my God.
Jenny Slate 52:22
You know, it’s crazy. I feel like, you know, not to tie it back to the beginning, but people think about ghosts, I feel like, as being like, sort of Little House on the Prairie, people just staring at them, yeah? Like in a lot of people in a pinafore Yeah, long dress, that kind of thing. This, I think, was more of a 20th century ghost. I think we’re talking about 30s, 40s, I want to say. And it was, I mean, what my dad thought was that it was the ghost of a man who had been writing love letters to the woman who used to live in the house, but he was not her husband. She was married because my dad discovered all the love letters underneath the the carpet on the stairs, the runner that went up the stairs and and when he took the run the letters, and he like, took them and put them in his like, office at the top of the stairs, that was when, like, a couple nights later he saw the ghost, and he like smelled the pipe smoke of the ghost. And he just was like, Oh my God, I’ve really stumbled into something I’m not supposed to be in, and but then my mom and my little sister saw like, a lady come out of like a room. There were like two rooms, like facing each other, like on either side of a hallway, and they basically saw her, like, come out of one room towards the other, and then, like, towards the other opening, and but then, like, weirdly, just like, float up into the, like, light fixture.
Samantha Bee 53:47
Oh, my God.
Jenny Slate 53:49
I know. And it was like the silhouette, like, like, in profile, and they both saw it. So what are you gonna say? You know, like, everyone’s like, well, not corroborated, but it’s like they said.
Samantha Bee 53:58
They if it’s if two people, if more than one person, saw a natural presence, then it’s not given. So do you still have the letters?
Jenny Slate 54:10
No, my dad, he burnt them up over fire, yeah, in the fireplace.
Samantha Bee 54:16
Okay. He was like, they’re in the fire.
Jenny Slate 54:18
The fires. Yeah, you burnt the whole house down, and so the letters were not a problem anymore.
Samantha Bee 54:27
Yeah, that’s so funny. I often wonder, like in the future, like, is of, you know, all of our ghosts and whatever that we get to see, okay, are again, like, they’re like from the 30s, from the in long dresses. They’re like, these sort of magnificent creatures. What is going to happen in 100 years? Like, are all the ghosts 100 years are now going to be wearing, like, Coors Light T shirts.
Jenny Slate 54:51
I was going to say, like, it’s going to be like, like the outline of, like, a Lululemon camel toe or whatever.
Samantha Bee 54:58
Like, there was a guy and he was in. Board shorts. And he was, I think he was like, Yeah, flip flops.
Jenny Slate 55:04
It was under armor. It was, you know, like, like, it was a juicy suit, like.
Samantha Bee 55:11
Oh my god, this was so fun. I just thank you so for having me. And your book is so awesome. And I’m just very you, happy for you, and I think it’s like a piece of art that you have released into the world, and it’s, I really encourage everyone to get it and read the hell out of it.
Jenny Slate 55:30
Appreciate you talking to me today was so fun, just like it was the hang.
CREDITS 55:41
That was Jenny Slate, and I had no choice but to look up one thing I loved hearing about her haunted house. As you may know, I grew up in a haunted house as well, so I had to check how many Americans think they also live in a haunted house. One in six. What we thought I was special. Anyway, thanks for joining us. I’m Samantha Bee and see you next week for some more Choice Words. Thank you for listening to Choice Words, which was created by and is hosted by me. The show is produced by […], with editing and additional producing by Josh Richmond. We are distributed by Lemonada Media, and you can find me @realsambee on X and Instagram, follow Choice Words wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.