For You, Anything

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Love is sweeter than reason.

STORIES

“Sister Trouble”: Lupita, her sister Fiona, and cousins Kitt, Tawi, and Mich get together to recount a legendary nursing mishap.

Produced by David Exumé, with assistance from Fiona Nyong’o. Original score by Clay Xavier.

“Oha Soup”: Joan, a Nigerian barrister, pours all her love into her signature dish just so she can hand-deliver it for her daughter’s graduation in New York.

Produced by Priscilla Alabi and David Exumé. Original score by Jeremy Uwah.

Many thanks to Kitt, Tawi, Mich, and Fiona for joining us! And to Joan Okwuosa and her daughter (and Story Scout!) Ashley Okwuosa for sharing their story.

Original Mind Your Own theme song by Sandra Lawson-Ndu AKA Sandu Ndu x Peachcurls ft. Ehiorobo. This episode also featured the song Put It On Me by Layzee Ella ft. Majeek.

Executive Producers: Glynn Washington and Mark Ristich
Managing Editor: Regina Bediako
Director of Production: Marisa Dodge
Series Producers: David Exumé and Priscilla Alabi
Music Supervisor: Sandra Lawson-Ndu
Story Scouts: Ashley Okwuosa, Fiona Nyong’o, Jessica Kariisa, Lesedi Oluko Moche
Editors: Nancy López and Anna Sussman
Engineering: Miles Lassi
Operations Manager: Florene Wiley
Story Consultant: John Fecile
Graphic Design: Jemimah Ekeh
Original Artwork: Mateus Sithole
Special Thanks: Allan Coye, Jake Kleinberg, Samara Still, Sarah Yoo, Warner Music Group, and Afripods

Episode transcripts can be found here.

Mind Your Own is a production of KQED’s Snap Studios, with sales and distribution by Lemonada Media. Hosted and produced by Lupita Nyong’o. 

Snap Studios is home to the Snap Judgment and Spooked podcasts.

Transcript

MIND YOUR OWN TRANSCRIPT

EP 4: FOR YOU, ANYTHING

[Mind Your Own intro] 

Lupita: I’m Lupita Nyong’o, and this is Mind Your Own. 

So, we’re going to switch things up a little. I heard the wildest story a while back when I was with my sister, Fiona. We were hanging out with my cousins. 

Kitt: I’m Kitt. I’m the eldest. I have a mini-parent relationship with these two, where they think I’m their mother and I’m constantly reminding them that I’m not. 

Tawi: I’m Tawi. That is not true. [laughs] I’m the middle child. 

Mich: Okay. I’m Mich. I’m the youngest, and I’m their unpaid help. 

Kitt: Yeah, Mich, that’s unnecessary. That is dirty laundry. 

Tawi: You owe us, anyway.

Kitt: We changed your diaper. 

Tawi: We did.

Kitt: Yeah. 

Lupita: Kit, Tawi, and Mich are our first cousins. And the story was so good. I just knew I had to share it with you, guys. So, I brought Fiona into the studio to help me tell it. 

Fiona: Hello. 

Lupita: Hi, Fion. 

Fiona: I’m excited about this one. This is one wild, wild story. 

Lupita: [laughs] 

Fiona: You know how we use this term so loosely, “I’ll do anything for you.” 

Lupita: Hmm.

Fiona: Hearing this story made me think about times when we’re together. Like, just this last weekend when we’re sharing the bed and turning off the lights. 

Lupita: Yes. 

Fiona: [laughs] It’s always like, “Who’s going to turn off the lights?” 

Lupita: [laughs] 

Fiona: So, it just made me think, yeah, if turning off the lights is hard, what’s anything to you when you say you’d do anything for me as your sister? So, I called them up and here’s a story as heard afresh from Kitt, Tawi, and Mich. 

Lupita: Okay, go ahead. 

Kitt: So, our paternal first cousin lost her husband and we were all going to her village, like the village home for a funeral. So, it was a big exodus. Everybody out of Nairobi heading there. 

I left my children at home, because when my husband was here, he wasn’t traveling for the funeral. We didn’t know where we were going. We had never been there. We didn’t know the sleeping situation. So, I said, “Okay, fine, you stay with the children and I don’t have to carry the little one.” He was a little under one. He’s not exclusively breastfeeding anymore. He eats solid food, stuff like that. So, it wasn’t a thing that we were doing all the time like when he was a baby. I didn’t carry a pump. I didn’t think I needed it. 

We all piled into the car and it’s a lot.

[car driving]

Kitt: Wow. The donkey’s so cute. Can we stop and kiss it? 

Tawi: And these guys are always hating on my music choices. They’re like, “Tawi, we don’t want to listen to your white music.” I don’t know if I can say that. [laughs] 

Mich: Sometimes, we play Would You Rather.

Kitt: And then we debate about it for the next 58 kilometers. And that’s when I started to feel a headache. 

[intriguing music]

Kitt: I thought it was because I was driving the whole time. 

Tawi: When she got the headache, she’s like, “Oh, yeah, I have a headache. Tawi, can you drive?” So, I took over the driving. By that time, it was still quite away– 

Kitt: Maybe two and a half hours, not so far. But then the headache then now moved over to my shoulders. So, Mich was sitting in the back and she was trying to massage my shoulders. I took two painkillers, like, really strong ones. Mara Moja. You’re supposed to only take one. I took two. I’m still dying. Then somebody’s suggesting, “Maybe you’re dehydrated.” So, I’m drinking all the water in life. So, we keep stopping to go to the loo. It’s just getting worse and worse. And now I have a migraine. Like, the back of my eyes are hurting. I can’t keep my eyes open. I can’t lift my arms. I can lift my hands, but then I can’t lift my elbows past my shoulders. 

Tawi: We’re going deeper and deeper into the country. 

[laughter] 

Tawi: We’ve left all the level four hospitals. The last one is two hours away. My main goal was just to get to my mom fast enough, because she’ll know what to do. The rest of us, we were just like winging it. 

Kitt: It was late afternoon, five-ish. 05:00 PM. Literally, we’ve just arrived. We’re standing at the car waiting, because mommy just drove in. So, she gets out and then we greet her. I can’t really hug her properly and she’s asking me, “What’s wrong with you?” And I say, “My head hurts, and I can’t lift my arms, and my shoulders are killing me. I don’t know what’s wrong. Help me.” 

Mich: We’re just standing there nodding and saying tell her you also have a fever. [crosstalk] Tell her you also almost threw up. 

Kitt: Does mommy’s face ever change? 

Mich: No, she’s a busy body, so she could be washing dishes. 

Tawi: She was doing something else.

Mich: Doing something, whatever. But she’s hearing you. 

Kitt: She said, “Oh, I think your breasts are full of milk.” 

Tawi: We hadn’t thought of that.

Kitt: Because it had never happened, and this was my second child. 

Mich: Oh, you need to breastfeed. 

Kitt: Oh, you need to breastfeed.

[intriguing music]

Kitt: So now I have no pump. It was an oversight. I’m running around looking for a place that I can be private and be able to express the milk and just release the tension. But there’s no place. We have no access to the main house because it’s full of people. We have tents that are not pitched. They’re in the back of the car. I don’t know, like, I need a bathroom. All the bathrooms are pit latrines. And this is going to be messy, because the milk is going to go everywhere. My dress is going to get wet. 

Mich: We sat for a bit and then we had to leave early. Kitt is sick. We didn’t even bury my cousin’s husband. So, we had to leave and go to now our home in our village. 

Kitt: Mommy told me, “Stand in the hot shower, and as you’re standing, press your breast.” So, I stood in the shower for a while and I started to express. Some of it was coming out, not enough. It was really, really horrible. And now my breasts were getting more and more engorged. Now I think I had expressed maybe three times or four times. Every time I went to the bathroom, I was like, “Let me try again.” 

Mich: We tried hot towels as well, you know. 

Kitt: Mm-hmm. So, we put the hot towels like a hot compress and just tried that. 

[intriguing music]

Kitt: I just want to breastfeed anybody, somebody, if that’s going to make me feel better. I noticed a baby sleeping on a couch. Nobody was watching that baby. I was going to pick up. I was just like, “Whose baby is this? Oh. Whose baby is this?” 

And I had this idea, I just need somebody to suck it out. And that’s when I just made a request. [in background Mich and Tawi laughing] “Guys, hear me out. Please, please, could you just breastfeed?” 

[intriguing music]

Tawi: “Sorry, what? You want me to what?” 

Mich: Me, I was still desperate to help, yeah?

Kitt: Yeah.

Mich: But I didn’t think we were this desperate. 

Tawi: But I decided, “Okay, you know what? Kaende ikaende.” 

[laughter] 

Tawi: [laughs] It means —

Kitt: “What will be, will be.” But in like the worst possible way. 

[intriguing music]

Lupita: Don’t go anywhere. More after this quick break. 

You’re listening to Mind Your Own. Let’s get back to it.

Tawi: So, I went first, okay? I went like, I licked it just to know the taste to prepare my brain. Now let me tell you something else. Disclaimer. There is nothing [Mich laughs] that can prepare you on how breast milk tastes. Did you know breast milk is warm? There’s a temperature, 32 degrees Celsius. And then it’s sweet, but not sweet like sugar. 

Kitt: Oh God.

Tawi: It’s sweet like molasses. 

[laughter] 

Tawi: I’m pursing my lips around it trying to get as little of the taste as possible. 

Kitt: You’re sucking like a straw. 

Tawi: And once I was sucking– Yeah, I was sucking like a straw, but it wasn’t working. 

Kitt: Her technique was incorrect. “Tawi, don’t suck it like with your lips. You need to suck with your tongue.” 

Mich: Just that you need to latch.

Kitt: So, now I was coaching her on how to suck like a baby. 

Tawi: By the time her nipples at the back of your throat, you’re now committed to the experience. There’s nothing you can do. Yeah. So, she’s like, “Let me show you. Open your mouth.” And then she’s sticking her boob into your mouth and then she’s like, “Okay, now suck.” And that’s when it worked. But now it’s working. So, you have to swallow half the contents. By the time you’re spitting, it’s only half what you sucked out because you’re latching on now properly. 

Mich: Tawi goes for like a minute or two and then she taps out. She’s like, “Your turn.” And I’m like, “Okay, fine.” I latched. I did my minute or two. I was like, “Tap out, Tawi.” So, it went back and forth like that. 

Kitt: So, immediately, the milk comes out, it squats into the back of their throat. They remove their mouth because it’s disgusting. That relief of, “Oh, my God, yes. Finally, it’s coming out.” But then the frustration of it, it comes out, it stops. It comes out, it stops. And I’m just like, “Just suck it up, and just breastfeed properly.” 

After a while, the milk just flows on its own, and that’s the point where now the physical relief is a lot more, and now I’m feeling a lot better. 

Mich: A gentle flow.

Kitt:  A gentle flowing blue shape of relief. That’s how it felt. 

[intriguing music]

Kitt: Now I showered. I’m good now. Now I can live my life happily until I see my baby tomorrow. We were now having a good time, chilling, talking. They were very upset.

Tawi: 100% upset. Not like angry or anything, but just one of those situations like, that was an upsetting experience. You don’t know how to unpack that. 

Mich: But real talk, you know how people say, “Oh, I would do anything for my sister. I love my sister so much. I’ll do anything for them.” Yeah, that’s anything. 

[laughter] 

Kitt: I will not forget it. 

Tawi: Don’t you ever. 

Mich: You better not. 

[laughter] 

Fiona: So, hearing this story from [foreign word] Kitt, the second time you’ve heard the buildup. [laughs] 

Lupita: Yes. 

Fiona: Here I am in the same situation, would you do that for me? Would you breastfeed? 

[laughter] 

Lupita: I feel like such a thing should only happen once in the lifespan of an entire family. So, I’m really, really hopeful that this will never happen again. But should it happen? Should it happen, Fiona? I would do it. 

Fiona: Would you? 

Lupita: I think so. I would do it with a lot of trepidation. But I would do it, because ultimately, I would not want to see you in such distress. But you know what the real takeaway from this story is? Carry your kid. 

Fiona: You know what Tawi and Mich said? 

Lupita: What? 

Tawi: We all invested in breast pumps. 

[laughter] 

Fiona: So, that’s my takeaway. I don’t think I would wait to be in that situation. I should just go on Amazon, and order a portable breast pump, to have in my handbag. 

Lupita: Ay, yi yi yi yi. 

[intriguing music]

Lupita: More Mind Your Own after this quick break. Stay tuned. 

Welcome back. You’re listening to Mind Your Own. 

Lupita: Okay, let’s just take a moment and breathe. [exhales] And now we set the table for our next story. It’s from another mother. I hope you’re listening. 

Mothers are some of the hardest working people on the planet. Take this mother, for example. 

Joan: My name is Joan Okwuosa. Barrister Joan. I’m a lawyer. I’m a legal practitioner. I have four kids. The oldest is Ashley. I had Ashley when I was in school. When I was still in legal school, I was like in my third year. She’s a sweet girl. I could do anything for her. She’s sweet, she’s kind and very brilliant. 

Lupita: Now, Joan’s kids are all grown up and moved out, but that doesn’t stop Joan from providing a home cooked meal every time she visits.

Joan: Ashley said, “Mommy, all you want to do is cook, cook, cook.” She said, “Mommy, you don’t want to go anywhere.” 

Lupita: In 2018, Joan hadn’t seen her daughter in years. Ashley was at Columbia University getting her master’s, and Joan was in Nigeria. So, when Ashley graduated that year, Joan knew she had to do what she did best. 

Joan: I said, “You know what? I’m going to take oha soup to United States for her graduation.” 

Oha is one of our native soups. I’m from the eastern part of Nigeria. We have six girls in my family, so you have to know how to cook the soup. So, when I get back to all the kids, I did the same. I passed that on to the kids. So, out of all the soups, oha became their favorite soup. I normally pass through London because I have family in London. I lived there for so many years. So, what I did was, I stayed over at my sister’s place in Kent. I told my sister, “Oh, I’m going to make oha soup for Ashley.” Oh, she was very excited about it. 

What I took from home here in Nigeria was oha leaf, the Indomie. I had the chin chin. I had even the bread that I normally buy from Nigeria. So, when I got to London, I went to the local store where they sell African foods. I got everything else. 

First of all, you need the protein, and the protein is either beef, chicken, or fish. Any kind of protein. I had kilishi, which was like a grilled beef. I didn’t use just beef, I used the cow leg. The meat comes with bone, but it’s very, very nice with soup. It’s very sweet. The cow leg, if you know anyone in Nigeria, the children love the cow leg. 

Then the tripe. You have the tripe as well. That one takes a while. So, I cook the tripe with the cow leg. And then the fish doesn’t take time to cook. Secondly, you have to get the thickener. It’s called ede. That’s what thickens it, you just don’t make oha with water. You have to get the stock. The stock is the real deal. That is what makes oha special. Then you have to get ogiri. It doesn’t smell nice, but that’s what makes it authentic. I cooked it, and then I froze it. It was massive. It was a lot because I know Ashley would have her friends come over and have some. 

My trip was on a Saturday, I made the soup on Wednesday. I packed it. I brought it up frozen. It was still frozen. And then I packed all the luggages. Before I left for the airport, my sister had this angel apple. She said, “Why don’t you take some fruits with you?” And then I took the apple, and then I put it on my Prada bag. 

And then it was a British Airways flight. And then seven and a half hours later, I landed in JFK. We unboarded, we passed immigration. Everything was okay. Had my papers, everything. The visa, that wasn’t any issue. 

We were at the carousel. There was a policeman, he had the dog, the sniffer dog, and he kept on barking. [dog barking] I said, “Well, that’s not for me. I’m not carrying any illegal thing. I’m not carrying drugs. I’m not doing anything that I don’t know why this dog is barking.” He went away again and he came back again. He kept on barking. I’ve never been sniffed by a dog, I never in my life never been in trouble, any form of trouble. Never broke the laws. I tell my kids to stay out of trouble. Anything can happen and you can be indicted and the rest is history. 

So, when he kept coming, I was scared. Because just like being scared of snakes or being scared of ants or being scared of cockroach, why is this dog coming to me? Why is it coming around? And then they asked me to step aside. I did step aside. And they say, “Ma’am, can we see your bag?” And I said, “Oh, my bag.” I said okay and then I gave them a bag. The man said, “Do you have any kind of fruit? Do you have anything in your bag?” I said, “Yes, I’ve got an apple.” The guy said, “Oh, I’m sorry, you’re not allowed to take– bring in any apple.” And I said, “Wow. I didn’t have any clue. I didn’t know.” I gave them the apple and then asked me to come with them. They took my luggage. And then they said they have to now check my luggage. I said, “Fine, they should check it.” 

They took me into the other side at JFK. For people that have maybe issues with their passport, they need to interrogate them, so that’s the place they take you to, and that’s when they open up the luggage. I was actually going to unlock the box for them. But they said, “No, ma’am. Stay away.” So, the gentleman asked for the keys. I brought out the keys. Ah, that was when I was scared. It was over two hours just to take those things, one after the other. I was like, “Oh, my God.” He saw an Indomie. And then he said, “Well, chicken Indomie is illegal,” that I should next time bring the onion. He put it in the bin. I said, “Not a problem.” He said, “Yes.” And he said, “I know you have kids,” because he knows that most Nigerian, most Africans, normally bring – so I said, “yes, it’s for the children.” And then he went on to the meat and he said, “This is dry meat.” He said, “No,” because fish is allowed. I said, “No problem.” And then they chucked that one in the bin. 

Then when they came to the soup, it was still frozen. And he said, “What is this?” I said, “Yes, fish. Local delicacy. Yeah. I know the kids will enjoy it.” They opened the soup because they couldn’t see anything physically. It wasn’t like they saw the meat clearly or they saw the fish. They knew the soup wasn’t made just with water. He said, “What’s in this soup? What do you have? What did you cook it with?” 

I wanted to tell the truth, not because of my legal background as a lawyer. I think I was raised to tell the truth. And I said, “I cooked it with fish. I made it for my daughter. I was bringing it for her.” And he said, “Okay. Is it just fish?” I said, “No, sir, that I’ve got meat on it. Beef, cow leg.” And he said, “Wow, meat is not allowed in the United States.” 

I didn’t know meat was not allowed. He said to me, he could have allowed me to keep the fish with the soup if there was no meat. But since there was meat, that he was going to take it from me, and then he said, “Because you told the truth, there’s nothing I can do.” And then, that he was sorry. 

And right in front of me, right in front of me, they just took the soup, and then they just dropped it in the trash. 

I just wanted to go and see Ashley. I just wanted to run, I just wanted to go and meet her because she’s been there for a long time. I couldn’t contact her. I couldn’t call her. And it was Mother’s Day. I love my children so much. I just want to get to the destination and just give them all the goodies that I bring from Nigeria. And I told them thank you. And then I packed the rest of my luggage. That was when they allowed me to go on and see Ashley. 

When I went outside and I realized that Ashley won’t be eating that soup, that’s when I felt bad. Not right when I was with the officers, because I didn’t want to show my many kind of emotions. And then Ashley said, “Mom, are you okay?” And I told her what happened. She felt bad. And I felt bad that Ashley couldn’t eat. 

The first person I called was my mother-in-law. [phone ringing] We spoke our language and we said, “The soup is gone.” She said, “Ha. Oh, my God, that soup, Ashley’s favorite.” I told my sisters. We’re six girls. So, I told them that the soup was gone. I told my best friend that the soup was gone. [chuckles] 

I learned from that experience. I want to tell the mothers out there, if you’re traveling, especially we that come from Africa, go through the list of what to bring and what not to bring. Now when I travel, I travel with only fish. And then I make oha soup for her every day in Toronto. I mean, feeding my children, it’s something that is part of us, it’s just something that I enjoy, it’s something that I have to do, it’s something that I’m born to do. 

I’ll still be cooking for them ‘til maybe I’m hundred. 

[cheery music]

Lupita: After Joan told her story, we had to know, did she regret telling the truth? Couldn’t she just have told a little lie to save her precious soup? 

Joan’s answer, no. Absolutely not. 

Thank you, Joan, for sharing your story and being so honest. And special thanks to her daughter, our very own story scout, Ashley Okwuosa for bringing us the story of the soup that she never got to eat. 

Thank you for listening. It’s been good to have you. I really enjoyed going with you to JFK, where we tried to reason with security, but it was no use. We watched in horror as our beautiful Oha soup was thrown in the trash. 

We’ll see you the next time you Mind Your Own. 

Until then, here’s a song from The Continent: Put It On Me by Layzee Ella featuring Majeek. 

[Layzee Ella’s Put It On Me playing] 

Lupita: Mind Your Own is hosted and produced by me, Lupita Nyong’o. This is a production of Snap Studios at KQED, with sales and distribution by Lemonada Media.

The executive producers are Glynn Washington and Mark Ristich. Our managing editor is Regina Bediako. Our director of production is Marisa Dodge. 

My family’s story “Sister Trouble” was produced by David Exumé with assistance from Fiona Nyong’o. Original music by Clay Xavier. The story “Oha Soup” was produced by Priscilla Alabi and David Exumé. Original music by Jeremy Uwah.

Our Mind Your Own producers are David Exumé and Priscilla Alabi. Our story scouts are Ashley Okwuosa, Fiona Nyong’o, Jessica Kariisa, and Lesedi Oluko Moche. Our editors are Nancy Lopez and Anna Sussman. Our story consultant is John Fecile. Engineering by Miles Lassi. Our music supervisor is Sandra Lawson-Ndu, also known as Sandu Ndu. She also created the Mind Your Own theme song with Peachcurls, featuring vocals from Ehiorobo. 

Graphic design by Jemimah Ekeh. Original artwork by Mateus Sithole.

Special thanks to Allan Coye, Jake Kleinberg, Samara Still, Sarah Yoo, Warner Music Group, and Afripods.

Make sure to follow Mind Your Own and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

There’s even more to love with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content from across the network for only $4.99 a month. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts.

Now go out, get together, and mind your own… soup.

[Transcript provided by SpeechDocs Podcast Transcription]

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