From Mama to Mogul with Cécred’s Tina Knowles
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Today, Meghan sits down with the one and only Tina Knowles, the designer, businesswoman and legendary mama behind some of the most iconic moments in pop culture. Together, Meghan and Ms. Tina dive into stories from her newly released memoir, Matriarch, exploring themes of love, reinvention and faith. They reflect on what it means to lead with purpose, to evolve through life’s chapters, and to create space for oneself after years of nurturing for others.
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Transcript
SPEAKERS
Megan, Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Meghan Markle’s, Tina Knowles
Tina Knowles 01:56
And she said, “I know you know what you’re doing. You’re not in a room full of people that were advisors”. They were like, “I don’t think that’s a good idea”. And she was like, “My mom knows what she’s doing”. So, she trusts me on things, and I trust her. That’s really important.
Meghan Markle’s 02:29
I’m Meghan and this is Confessions of a Female Founder – a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned and the laser focus that got them to where they are today.
Meghan Markle’s 02:54
There’s something incredible about a young woman who was willing to roll the dice on herself, be an entrepreneur and build. Let’s say you’re in your 20s and you start doing that. Let’s say you’re in your 30s. Let’s say you do that in your 30s and 40s as a working mom, and you’re trying to figure it out. There is something where I just put my hands up and applaud all of you who are doing the thing. Then there is something that gets a standing ovation and that is when, you are in your 70s – and you say, “I’m still going to build and I’m still going to invent and I’m still going to create”. That is next level entrepreneurship, and that is why I am thrilled to have this guest on today. She knows it better than anyone else. I am talking about Ms. Tina Knowles, she’s a fashion designer, beauty entrepreneur, cultural icon, who has spent decades celebrating and elevating black style alongside her daughters. From creating a one of a kind hair salon in the 80s to designing looks for Destiny’s Child. Ms. Tina, she’s alwaysbeen a force in business – and now she’s channeled that into Sacred, the science backed hair care line that she launched with her daughter, Beyonce.
Tina Knowles 04:11
We get along really well, and so we have a disagreement. It’s her business, so she gets to win because it’s her business.
Meghan Markle’s 04:18
Together, the two of them have built something incredibly special. And sacred, has already racked up 30industry awards, all in just one year. Beyond her business success, though, Tina has written a new memoir called “Matriarch”, in which she shares the personal journey behind her family’s legacy, her breast cancer experience last year, and building a life rooted in pride and purpose. She is proof that being a mama mogul is not just a title, it’s a blueprint for building something that lasts across generations. Here she is.
Tina Knowles 04:56
Hi.
Meghan Markle’s 04:57
Oh! How are you?
Tina Knowles 04:59
I’m good. How are you?
Meghan Markle’s 04:59
Good. I’m so happy to be sitting down with you. You’re so much amazing.
Tina Knowles 05:03
I’m so excited to be with you.
Meghan Markle’s 05:06
Thank you. Of course, I’m so glad you reached out and I love seeing Yvette there. I don’t know if I wrote her a letter after I went to Biss concert a couple years ago. She said the kindest things. I just wanted her to know how much it meant to me.
Tina Knowles 05:17
And Tyler talks about you all. He loves you. He’s a really good friend of mine.
Meghan Markle’s 05:21
Yes. Well, he’s a good friend to have. He’s the most extraordinary soundboard. It’s interesting for us to besitting down talking about business, because he is that person that when I have questions about business or just when you feel like you’re off your path – I need to call, I need to check in with Tyler.
Tina Knowles 05:42
Yeah. He just finished the book, and he wrote me. It’s like poetry, so beautiful and uplifting. I’m like, “Oh god, that’s just what I needed today, because I’m so exhausted and kind of depleted”. So, it just lifted me back up.
Meghan Markle’s 05:56
That will fill your cup. Tyler Perry can do that.
Tina Knowles 05:58
Exactly.
Meghan Markle’s 05:59
It’s amazing, though, that at 70 plus, because I’ve talked to entrepreneurs on this program who are in their 20s.
Tina Knowles 06:08
Yeah, I know.
Meghan Markle’s 06:10
I know. I’m sitting here in my 40. Well you know, Beyonce and I think we’re the same age. She’s a couple weeks. She’s born in September, right?
Tina Knowles 06:19
Yeah.
Meghan Markle’s 06:19
Virgo season and I’m in August this year. So, we’ll both be 44 this year.
Tina Knowles 06:24
Are you a Virgo too?
Meghan Markle’s 06:25
I’m a Leo. H is a Virgo.
Tina Knowles 06:27
Okay.
Meghan Markle’s 06:28
My mom’s a Virgo. H is a Virgo. I’m surrounded by Virgos.
Tina Knowles 06:31
Okay.
Meghan Markle’s 06:32
Virgo season.
Tina Knowles 06:33
Well, that’s a good thing. You know, the other night, I had a tour date in L.A and Keke Palmer was the host for me. She was amazing.
Meghan Markle’s 06:43
Sweet.
Tina Knowles 06:43
Then Jennifer Hudson came and sang a song – and I said, “I got these two Virgos”. I mean, not just a track Virgos, a lot of the kids that I’ve adopted, they like my bonus kids – they’re Virgos. So, I think just that Virgo energ. They’re really amazing people.
Meghan Markle’s 07:02
It is such a good sign.
Tina Knowles 07:04
It is.
Meghan Markle’s 07:04
But, look at you right now. I can’t even imagine you have so many plates spinning.
Tina Knowles 07:10
I do.
Meghan Markle’s 07:11
Does it feel as though, even with the exhaustion, even with the swirl around all of it – Does it feel like it’s your time?
Tina Knowles 07:18
Oh, absolutely. You know, even though I’m exhausted and I’ve been going from one place to the other, because the tour is going on right now. Beyonce’s tour going back and forth, because I’m working there. Ijust feel reinvigorated every day when I get to talk to people about the book and the things that have happened, and when someone texts me and they say, “You know, I went and got my mammogram. I hadbeen putting it off” or “I decided that I was going to make my kids a priority”. And some of the things that I put in a book. I mean, I just get all this energy and just feel like I did something that was a good thing.
Meghan Markle’s 08:00
An act of service.
Tina Knowles 08:02
Exactly.
Meghan Markle’s 08:03
Just at first glance you go, that’s the most giftable book in the world, because you have to put that in someone’s hands. It needs to be in everyone’s home. But, I think the inside is really obviously the true gift,which is what your journey has been obviously, as a working mom. But as a female entrepreneur, which is why I’m so happy we get to talk and have this bonus episode for people who are listening, especially young women who want to start something. Do you think you have to find yourself first and then be ableto find your business? Or you can find your business and through that business, you start to find yourself?
Tina Knowles 08:36
I think, it’s the second one. I think that you start your business and then you find yourself. It gives you confidence that you didn’t have before. It gives you creativity and you just feel accomplished. Now, I don’t think that I would have gotten that had, I not had the hair salon. That’s where I learned to be a business person. I learned to be a boss. I learned to take care of business and organize things, and I got a lot of self esteem from that. So I think, it was the other way around.
Meghan Markle’s 09:10
That’s really helpful, because a lot of people would say “You need to know yourself before you know what you’re going to start”. But it seems like, we’re all kind of figuring it out along the way, and also we evolve as women – and the chapters of being a mother evolve. I mean, Archie turns six tomorrow.
Tina Knowles 09:29
Where did the time go?
Meghan Markle’s 09:31
Where did the time go? I remember carrying him out there, and he is now six years old. We had his birthday party yesterday. But, you look up and really, I think everything is in constant fluid motion, but the common denominator is you knew – even when you had a salon back then to now, having Sacred in this moment in time. The connective tissue is the same.
Tina Knowles 09:57
Yes, it’s the same.
Meghan Markle’s 09:58
You wanted to show up for women or people?
Meghan Markle’s 10:01
Yes.
Tina Knowles 10:01
That’s a hit.
Tina Knowles 10:01
It doesn’t matter what business it is. I just had a philosophy that if I was going to have a business – first of all, it would be something that is a service, that is needed. And what would make my business different from anyone else’s? Because there were a lot of hair salons, so I had to figure out what was the need, and the need was getting in and out treated as a professional person whose time was valuable. Once you figure out the need, and you make your business special, I think you gotta go.
Meghan Markle’s 10:37
How did you end up finding what would be that secret sauce to make it special for headliners, right?
Tina Knowles 10:44
Because back in that time, this was the 80s. I used to go to a salon, and I loved what they did to my hair,but I was there for five hours and I had a kid. I just couldn’t sit in the salon for five hours while people gossiped while they brought in food, it just was not professional. One of my really good friends – she wasan attorney, and she felt the same way. So I said, “You know, I want to start a salon but I want to really respect people’s time. I want to serve wine so that the women can loosen up”.
Meghan Markle’s 11:18
Luxury a little.
Tina Knowles 11:20
Right, exactly. And so everything that I didn’t find out there – that’s what I’m talking about, you have to find your niche, your thing that you can give people that they didn’t have. And it caught on so fast because there were many women that were like me that didn’t want the rest of that experience.
Meghan Markle’s 11:39
I think that’s part of it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be reinventing the wheel, and that’s important for people to hear because right now, I think it’s in the authenticity that you find your originality.
Tina Knowles 11:48
Exactly.
Meghan Markle’s 11:49
It is what is so pure and true to you. So, you found something that you wanted to plug a hole for. Look, I remember me with all my hair growing up, “Oh my gosh” and my mom would have to drop me off at the hair salon, and I would sit there for three to four hours for them to press and curl my hair. I’m talking like at the age of 13.
Tina Knowles 12:12
Right. And that’s a harrowing experience when you’re 12 or 13, that you’re in the salon with all these grown women.
Meghan Markle’s 12:19
Hearing a lot of things, you should not be hearing. No visibility. So right out of the gate, headliners was successful, correct?
Tina Knowles 12:29
Yes, super successful. I mean, I literally opened before Easter – maybe a couple months before Easter. And within a month, it was just people lining up because they wanted that great experience of being pampered. I had a computer system. I was the first salon to have a computer system so I could tell them when they had their last relaxer, when they had that last conditioner and they was so impressed. So, it just motivated me to find other things that nobody else offered, and I think that’s really important in business.
Meghan Markle’s 13:06
I’m so curious how you go in Texas, starting the hair salon – having the girls there, and then all these years later.
Tina Knowles 13:06
Yes.
Meghan Markle’s 13:06
Eolving this into now Sacred, which is incredible. I mean, just the accolades. Why did you want to start something else?
Tina Knowles 15:19
It has been a dream of mine forever. And Beyonce, it’s been a big dream of hers. So, we talked about this for years and years and years, but she just really was not interested in pursuing a another business,because in her younger years, she completely focused on her singing and her skills, all of that. So, it took some convincing, because I was like, “Listen, I will work on it and we’ll work on it together”. So finally, shesaid, “Okay, we can start on it”, because I didn’t want to do it by myself. I just felt like at this point in my life, being 70 years old, I didn’t want to work that hard for one […]. It’s been a labor of love, but we’ve been talking about it forever, because she grew up in a hair salon. She could actually be a hair stylist.
Meghan Markle’s 17:13
Really?
Tina Knowles 17:13
All of my kids – Kelly and Solange, because they grew up seeing me mixing things and taking care of their hair. And she also, she’s on the stage with hot lights, and she wears wigs a lot, and she has managed to keep her hair beautiful and healthy. And that’s not an easy task when you’re in show business.
Meghan Markle’s 17:35
That is a testament. I mean, even on Suits, I was on Suits for seven years and I remember so many other actresses, especially if you’re in that grind.
Tina Knowles 17:43
Yes.
Meghan Markle’s 17:44
They said you are going to fry your hair, and everyone was recommending that I should start wearing wigs. I never ended up doing it.
Tina Knowles 17:50
Right.
Meghan Markle’s 17:51
By the way, if I was in that industry longer, I understand why you need to protect your hair in that way.
Tina Knowles 17:56
Yeah, because who wants to curl and spray and tease. Do all those things to your hair every day. So, she’s been wanting to do this. People always ask her, because they don’t know when she has her hair or she has a wig on, a lot of times people say, “Well, she wears wigs all the time”. A lot of times it’s her hair. So, she wanted to share that secret with other people that are going through similar things. It doesn’t have to be just that you’re an entertainer. It could be just if you are on the news, or if you are a swimmer,or you’re just a regular person that curls your hair every day.
Meghan Markle’s 18:31
Or even if you don’t curl your hair every day, just natural UV rays and some damage. Our hair is like our skin. We are exposed to all sorts of things that need extra care. And I think that’s what Sacred has started to really tap into, that it’s not a unique position that you need to take. It’s just holistic hair care.
Tina Knowles 18:47
Exactly. You know, I have always been a mixologist, so I had products already. I would make them out ofnatural things and mix it with high tech science, and then the things that I knew our hair needed are just damaged hair, because this is not a black product – it’s for anyone.
Meghan Markle’s 19:05
Yes.
Tina Knowles 19:06
That curls and blow dries. You know, we manipulate our hair so much. So, I was mixing all these things together, but also with olive oil, hot oil treatments, and egg whites for protein.
Meghan Markle’s 19:20
Yes.
Tina Knowles 19:20
Just balancing it and just studying the science of it. So, we had a lot of setbacks because it takes a long time with products. You have to test them and a lot of times, just go all the way and start all over again.
Meghan Markle’s 19:36
I know, trust me. Do you know why I know? Because when you’re talking about consumables even jam.
Tina Knowles 19:42
Yes, because you’re doing food.
Meghan Markle’s 19:43
Yes, it has the same restriction, not the same but very similar restrictions and nuance as when you’re looking at FDA, as when you’re looking at compliance for beauty, people that do skincare and sun creams and all of that. I think, we all have this level of constant stress testing the product. And you can say, “Oh, I made this in my house”, like with your egg whites and your olive oil. And I’m going, “I just picked these strawberries and it’s so great. Look, I just put a little bit of sugar and a some meyer lemon”. And you try to scale that up.
Tina Knowles 20:16
Yeah.
Meghan Markle’s 20:17
And you’re wanting to manage expectations, but you want to share the thing you’ve worked so hard on. And so for me, at the moment, with as ever – it was great. We plan for a year, we get and then everything sells out in 45 minutes. Yes, amazing. Great news.
Tina Knowles 20:31
But, what do you do then?
Meghan Markle’s 20:33
Then what do you do? And then you say, “Okay, we planned as best as we could”.
Tina Knowles 20:38
Yes.
Meghan Markle’s 20:39
Are we going to replenish and sell out again in an hour? Or is that annoying as a customer?
Tina Knowles 20:43
Yeah.
Meghan Markle’s 20:43
I’m looking at it saying, “Just pause”.
Tina Knowles 20:46
Yeah.
Meghan Markle’s 20:47
“That happened. Let’s wait until we are ready to go stable and we have everything we need”.
Tina Knowles 20:53
I go through the same thing.
Meghan Markle’s 20:54
Right. Where you’re trying to just balance inventory and cost. Make at least our things are shelf stable.
Tina Knowles 21:01
Yes, and that’s another thing hours. You know, they have a shelf life of like three years. So, your time is ticking. I know exactly everything you’re saying, it’s just a part of business that people don’t see.
Meghan Markle’s 21:16
It’s a part they see all the flashy stuff and they see the product but, that end game. I think you’re right, those behind the scenes moments. How many tears I’ve shed?
Tina Knowles 21:24
Yeah, stayed up all night because we have this edge drop thing. And I feel bad because people are saying, “You know, you guys aren’t making enough stuff”, and we’re looking for it and we can’t find it. So, I don’t think it’s such a good thing all the time to sell out.
Meghan Markle’s 21:39
Yeah, I think that scarcity mentality at the beginning. Might be a hook for people, not dissimilar to a sneaker drop, right?
Tina Knowles 21:44
Yes, exactly.
Meghan Markle’s 21:45
But, when you’re talking about products?
Tina Knowles 21:47
You need to be consistent with. Foods that you want to provide to your family.
Megan 21:53
I don’t want you to eat that jam once every six months. I want that to be on your shelf all the time. You want us to wash our hair with these products all the time. So trying to keep up with that demand. I think, its something that’s really helpful for people to have that insight on, no matter who you are. That part of the process as entrepreneur is not easy, that numbers game. And you know, I know that in the pages of your new memoir, “Matriarch”, you delve in to so many of these elements growing a business, but also juggling that with the very personal element of your life as a wife, as a mother. So, I’m curious what is one of the key takeaways you want people to have from the stories in there?
Tina Knowles 22:32
It took me till 71 to decide that I am truly enough by myself without a partner, because I grew up very Catholic, I stayed in a marriage for 31 years, then I got married again. And the first part of it was wonderful, then it wasn’t so happy. The old me before I came to this revelation, because there was no big, drastic thing that happened. I would have stayed, but not been totally fulfilled. So, I finally know that whether I have a partner or not, I am whole and I just hate that I had to get to 70 before I realized that. I wish I would have done it way sooner in my life, but I didn’t.
Meghan Markle’s 23:17
But, 70 years young. I mean, look at you. And I think there’s such a wisdom that comes with that kind of life experience.
Tina Knowles 23:25
Yes. Well, I’ve been through a lot and I grew up very poor with a lot of challenges. I went to Catholic school, and I was told that I didn’t belong there, because I found out later – as a teenager, the reason why my father drove the nuns, and my brothers cleaned the school yard, and my mom did all the altar clothes (she was a seamstress), I was like, “Why are we indentured servants?”, what I found out later is that my mom was actually bartering services to send us to a Catholic school which was a really good school terms of academics. Not all of the nuns, but a couple of them – a few of them, felt like we didn’t belong there. They kept saying, “Well, you don’t belong here, and you should be so grateful”. And I didn’t understand why. Now, as an adult, I look back on that and I used to say, “Why didn’t my parents tell us that so that we could have been prepared?”, but that early message of not belonging stayed with me somewhat. I felt like I always had to fight. I had to have my dupes up all the time and prove to people that I deserve to be.
Meghan Markle’s 24:43
Have a seat at the table.
Meghan Markle’s 24:44
Well, that will carry through for your whole life, if that’s from the very beginning.
Tina Knowles 24:44
Exactly.
Tina Knowles 24:45
It has carried through. For my girls, that’s why I fight so hard now, I tell them every day, “You belong anywhere”. I mean, since they were little girls, “You belong anywhere you choose to be. You have to fight to get a seat at the table”. So, it’s been very interesting. I think that my fight in me to stand up to the nuns, because I was only like five years old. I became this warrior because my mother was very into thechurch and kind of brainwashed, she just didn’t protect me in that way.
Meghan Markle’s 25:25
Oh, goodness.
Tina Knowles 25:26
When I say that, I want you to understand that my mother was a great mom, but she respected so much the Catholic Church, and she was very involved in it. She went to Mass seven days a week. To her, being a good Christian person, was being humble and not questioning. So, when I say that she didn’t protect me, that’s what I mean by that.
Meghan Markle’s 25:50
Well, that was her way of protecting.
Tina Knowles 25:55
It was.
Meghan Markle’s 25:56
From what she knew, that would be the best way to protect you. I think that’s generationally, really different.
Tina Knowles 26:00
Yes.
Meghan Markle’s 26:01
You’re in deference to things that you look up to, and that’s what you stick all of your faith in without questioning. Are you losing any of yourself in that?
Tina Knowles 26:11
Exactly. My allergies are.
Meghan Markle’s 26:14
Oh! no. Do you eat local honey that can help?
Tina Knowles 26:17
You know, I used to and it really does work. I have to get back to that.
Meghan Markle’s 26:23
You have to get back on that because the other day – one of Archie’s little friends at school, this little girlhas such bad allergies, and I said, “Hold on a minute, we have bees. Let me give you a jar of our hone”.
Tina Knowles 26:33
You got some bees too?
Meghan Markle’s 26:34
We sure do.
Tina Knowles 26:34
You know Beyonce has bees too?
Meghan Markle’s 26:38
She does?
Tina Knowles 26:39
Yeah, she has a beehive.
Meghan Markle’s 26:41
Oh my gosh, I didn’t know she has a beehive. I didn’t know she had bees. No, the real ones. I mean, we have three little apiary down there – three of them, and Archie has this little beekeeper suit, the whole hat on and the gloves, it’s great. But I will say, for allergies – helpful, if it’s local honey.
Tina Knowles 27:01
Yes.
Meghan Markle’s 27:01
Get that, all the pollen and all the same things in your system then it desensitized allergies. But I’m sorry, that’s no fun. No, don’t be silly. What fascinates me too about Sacred is that you’re working directly with your daughter – you’re working directly with Beyonce on thi. You’ve worked with the girls for years. But this is a different type of endeavor. Just curious. I mean, I wonder if one day I’ll be in business with Lily and we’ll be building something.
Tina Knowles 27:25
Yeah, that’s the best.
Meghan Markle’s 27:30
What do you have? What advice do you have for people really digging into business together in that way, especially as mother and daughter?
Tina Knowles 27:38
There are difficulties sometimes, because when you’re dealing with your your child or they’re dealing with their mother, you have disagreements. I’m the one to always cave, I’ve been like that since I was young. If my kids are mad at me, I can’t take it so I’ll apologize – not that they ran over me, because they’re really good kids. But, even as adults, if we have a disagreement or whatever, I’m the one to call because I don’t want to waste that time and I don’t ever want to not be close to my kids.
Meghan Markle’s 28:13
Yes.
Tina Knowles 28:14
It’s just my priority.
Meghan Markle’s 28:16
And it would be wasted time.
Tina Knowles 28:17
Yeah, wasted time. So, we have disagreements about things, but it’s her business. I’m helping with the business because I just want to leave this earth knowing that she is, other than entertainment is going to be okay. You know, that’s a big part of it for me. But overall, we get along really, really well.
Meghan Markle’s 28:41
Yes.
Tina Knowles 28:42
We get along really well, and so we have a this agreement. It’s her business, so she gets to win because it’s her business.
Meghan Markle’s 28:48
And also, I think it’s just part of the evolution of in any partnership with business, right? Of course, it’s more layered if you’re in business with family. But ultimately, any business, you’re going to have strategicdecisions – and you’re going at a certain point, come to agreement.
Tina Knowles 29:04
And trust.
Meghan Markle’s 29:06
And trust and communication.
Tina Knowles 29:08
Yeah, because I trust her. She’s just such a savvy business person, and she knows so much about hair. So,we trust each other. And sometimes I’ll say, “I want to open this office, I want to build this office, but I want to have a test salon in the back, and I want to have a laboratory in there”. And everybody else was like, “You can’t do that, that amount of space”. I’m like, “Yeah, I’ll figure it out”. She said, “I know you know what you’re doing”.
Meghan Markle’s 29:36
Yeah.
Tina Knowles 29:37
You’re not in a room full of people that were advisors. They were like, “I don’t think that’s a good idea”. And she was like, “My mom knows what she’s doing”, so she trusts me on things and I trust her. That’s really important.
Meghan Markle’s 29:48
That’s a key facet, I think for whether you’re in business with a partner or someone that you know and love, or just in business in general. If there is no trust there, think the entire foundation is fractured.
Tina Knowles 29:59
Exactly. You know, whenever you’re doing something for somebody else, it might seem like you’re doing it for them, but you’re also doing it for yourself – and it works both ways.
Meghan Markle’s 30:10
Yeah. Well, you had also said at the beginning, even your original experience in having the salon, that it did so much for your self esteem.
Tina Knowles 30:16
Yes.
Meghan Markle’s 30:17
Those relationships of how we support each other taps into that as well. Where you go, someone believes in me.
Tina Knowles 30:22
Right?
Meghan Markle’s 30:23
You know, I think as you look towards some of the biggest wins that you’ve been having. Can you think of some of the biggest learns and lessons that you’ve had along the way that will be helpful for some of these women listening?
Tina Knowles 30:34
What I didn’t always do such a great job in balancing. You know, we talked about losing yourself, and I’ve lost myself several times then something will happen to jolt me into reality, and I’ll start taking care of myself and putting more energy into myself. But, it’s just my nature to start sliding back into those old habits. So, when I see young women that are trying to balance families, and businesses, and education – all of this, I just remind them two things. One is that if you have kids, to please look at your kids as individuals and not as one unit, to give them the attention, and to give them the confidence, and work on that person and spend time with them because it’s easier when you have more than one kid to lump them together.
Meghan Markle’s 31:32
Treat them as a team (a little group).
Tina Knowles 31:33
Exactly, especially if you’re working.
Meghan Markle’s 31:36
So, for a working mom, how does she do that? How do you carve out time for each of them individually?
Tina Knowles 31:40
You know, they have different needs because when my kids were little, they’re five years apart. Solange needed her own day so we called it Solange’s day. On Wednesdays, that was her day and I just did something with her by herself, because she needed that. Beyonce, didn’t need that. She was like, fine either way, because she was all into her own little world of music and entertaining, that kind of thing. So, you have to know what your kids needs are that identify their needs and spend that individual time with them. What I didn’t do such a great job of, is having time for myself.
Meghan Markle’s 32:27
Right?
Tina Knowles 32:27
So, that’s you get lost because you’re working. I worked five days a week, and then I had the two days off. One day I said, “Okay, let me spend it with Beyonce and later Kelly, and then the other day was Solange”, then I’m like, “What day do I have to go get a facial or a massage”. I just encourage young women to balance that. You need to do that for yourself. You need to have date night with your husband.
Meghan Markle’s 34:57
Completely.
Tina Knowles 34:58
Yeah, and not always have your kids coming on vacation with you.
Meghan Markle’s 35:58
As a mom in many ways, it is like being an entrepreneur, because you are creating and building every day. You don’t need to call it a brand. It’s not a brand, but your family and what you’re creating and working on every single day.
Tina Knowles 36:12
And you don’t get a do over. You’ll file bankruptcy with your business and go start a new business, you cannot go start a new kid.
Meghan Markle’s 36:21
That’s so true.
Tina Knowles 36:22
So, that’s an important part of your life, you don’t get to screw it up and say, “Oh, I want to do over”.
Meghan Markle’s 36:32
Right. Also, in you being able to carve out the time to specifically look at each of their needs as human being that I would imagine is part of what allowed you to be such a brand visionary, which you are. I think that without question, everyone would say “You’re able to see the individual talent and skills and opportunities for growth as well then the holistic views”. When you put Destiny’s Child together in that way, you’re able to see the brand vision as a whole. I’m curious “When you look at for yourself, what yourbrand vision is for you for Ms. Tina?
Tina Knowles 37:08
I mean, I never dreamed in a million years that I would have the number one book on The New York Times best seller list. That’s crazy to me. It’s surreal. I can’t even believe it.
Meghan Markle’s 37:18
It’s incredible.
Tina Knowles 37:19
Because I hope to even be on the best sellers list, but to be number one is, it’s incredible.
Meghan Markle’s 37:25
It’s well deserved.
Tina Knowles 37:26
Well thank you. But, when I get those Instagram comments that people are going to get their breast exams or they starting a business, they’re getting the courage to leave a bad marriage or leave a bad job that’s not fulfilling them. I tell you, it’s more than a brand. It’s really helping people. And my biggest prayer is, when I wrote the book, it would resonate with people, and it would personally help them with some area of their lives.
Meghan Markle’s 37:59
So, if you started the salon to be the antidote for a place that was not nurturing and a space of gossip.
Tina Knowles 38:06
Right.
Meghan Markle’s 38:06
So, you start that all those years back then, you continue with this support of your girls and being a working mom, and now you translate all of that knowledge into Sacred and you put it in a book for people to read. But it’s the same thing, you’re the same person with the same set of values of how you want to show up for people.
Tina Knowles 38:24
Yes, it’s true.
Meghan Markle’s 38:26
And now, you’re sharing that in a broader way which I think is just testament to your authenticity.
Tina Knowles 38:31
Well, thank you.
Meghan Markle’s 38:33
Oh, my goodness. Of course. Anything else that you think would be helpful for people to know or for young entrepreneurs as they’re on their journey?
Tina Knowles 38:41
Just that to keep the faith. You know, yesterday in church, the minister talked about faith is one thing, but along with faith has to be hope.
Meghan Markle’s 38:54
Yeah, it’s interesting.
Tina Knowles 38:56
Yeah. So hope is having this hope that, “Yes, my business is going to work”. “Yes, my marriage is going to work”. It’s the hope that makes it personal to you. So, I think what I wanted to convey in the book is that […]. People ask me, “Well, how did you do this and how did you do that?” And I say, “Because I always have faith”. I’ve never, ever been in my life, somebody who just sits around and just says, “Oh, God, that failed”, and I’ve had failures. But when the failures happen, I just keep it moving, and I look into the next thing that I can do to sort of reinvent my life, because it’s sad at that time.
Meghan Markle’s 39:44
Of course.
Tina Knowles 39:44
And I have hope and I have faith that it’s going to happen. And every time it happens, it really happens for me. I’m not saying it has to be religious faith, that’s what it is for me. But, you have to have faith in something.
Meghan Markle’s 39:58
Something greater than yourself or faith in yourself.
Tina Knowles 40:01
That’s right, yeah.
Meghan Markle’s 40:02
I used to have a quote up in my trailer years ago that said my faith is greater than my fear.
Tina Knowles 40:07
Yes, absolutely. That’s in my book too. I say that.
Meghan Markle’s 40:11
Oh my god, I can’t wait.
Tina Knowles 40:13
Yeah, it’s true. That doesn’t come easy. The other thing is, I have fought very hard not to be bitter, because I don’t want to be bitter. I don’t want any parts of it. I choose to look at the good things in my life and not harp on the bad ones. So, I’ve been through a bunch of stuff in my life – really hard stuff, but I will never be bitter. I’ll let it go.
Meghan Markle’s 40:39
I mean, that is easier said than done for a lot of people. But, I think that is what you said earlier, “You don’t want wasted time”. This time is precious and I imagine you were saying last July “Having this breast cancer scare, and you’re healthy and good now”.
Tina Knowles 40:54
Yes.
Meghan Markle’s 40:55
I mean, what a blessing.
Tina Knowles 40:57
Yes.
Meghan Markle’s 40:57
It just probably puts into perspective even more so why every day, every minute, all of it matters.
Tina Knowles 41:04
It matters.
Meghan Markle’s 41:05
So, you’re busy on the tour. I’m sure I’m going to see you on one of those. One of the dates we’ve all been trying to rally to figure out which one, which show to come to. My mom just went last week.
Tina Knowles 41:15
She did?
Meghan Markle’s 41:16
She did. I didn’t even know. She was like, “Oh, I just went”. She goes, “Oh, she’s so good”. You went, you didn’t tell her.
Tina Knowles 41:23
I was going to talk to her. Got to say Hi. She was lovely.
Meghan Markle’s 41:25
I know. How’s the turban, going good?
Tina Knowles 41:31
It’s so good. She had one last night. It’s just getting better and better because, when you go to the firstlike first couple.
Meghan Markle’s 41:38
In your sea legs back?
Tina Knowles 41:40
Yeah, you get your sea legs back because nobody else knows, but we know.
Meghan Markle’s 41:44
Right, exactly.
Tina Knowles 41:45
Last night, it was on fire.
Meghan Markle’s 41:47
Oh, my gosh, I can’t wait.
Tina Knowles 41:49
Y’all gotta come.
Megan 41:50
I know, I can’t wait.
Tina Knowles 41:51
Tyler came a very first night. He and Oprah and Gail.
Meghan Markle’s 41:55
Yes.
Tina Knowles 41:55
So much fun.
Meghan Markle’s 41:56
Oh, I bet. I can’t imagine how you can juggle all of it. But my goodness, did your girls adopt your work ethic?
Tina Knowles 42:03
That’s a good thing.
Meghan Markle’s 42:04
They’re seeing. There’s something to be said for that.
Tina Knowles 42:06
Sometimes, they work too much.
Meghan Markle’s 42:09
But, you’re also going to instill in them the same thing you’re saying right now, which is take that time foryourself.
Tina Knowles 42:13
Keep Balance.
Meghan Markle’s 42:14
Yes. And I think that’s going to be one of the hardest lessons. Look, even for me, I hear you saying that, and I’m integrating that going. Just take a minute to breathe. Enjoy it. Go have a date night. We have a date night.
Tina Knowles 42:27
That’s right.
Meghan Markle’s 42:29
Exactly. Look, I appreciate you. There’s any way I can uplift and continue to support you. Tell me, I’m always here.
Tina Knowles 42:35
Thank you so much. You are wonderful and I enjoy this so much.
Meghan Markle’s 42:40
Yes. Well, this should be the fun stuff, celebrating you.
Tina Knowles 42:43
All right, take care. Bye.
Meghan Markle’s 42:44
Thank you. You too. Bye.
Stephanie Wittels Wachs 43:04
Confessions of a Female Founder is a production of Lemonada media. Created and hosted by Meghan. Our producers are Kathrine Barnes and Hoja Lopez. Kristen Lepore is our senior supervising producer. Executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and Meghan. Mix and sounddesign are by Johnny Vince Evans. Rachel Neel is our VP of new content and production, and Steve Nelson is our SVP of weekly content and production. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. There’s more Confessions of a Female Founder with Lemonada premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content when you subscribe in Apple podcasts. You can also listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. We’ll see younext week.
Stephanie Wittels Wachs 44:02
We hope you enjoyed Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan. If you’d like to support the show, the best way to do so is by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcasts. It helps more incredible listeners like you discover the series. Thank you.
