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What is the most important hip hop movie of all time? Journalist Bomani Jones says it’s House Party (1990), while rapper Fat Tony picks CB4 (1993). After hearing from both sides, Aminatou Sow must choose one as the winner, and it’s not an easy pick! How does CB4’s look at the fetishization of gangsta rappers by the music industry compare to House Party’s subtle examination of class and Blackness in American society? Which is more damning, the early-90s-era homophobia in CB4 or the old actors playing high school kids in House Party? And since we’re talking about hip hop, which movie has the better music? There’s so much for Aminatou to think about before crowning the most important hip hop film of all time.

Follow Bomani Jones @bomani_jones on X and Instagram and Fat Tony @fattonyrap on X and Instagram.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Bomani Jones, Fat Tony, Aminatou Sow

Aminatou Sow  00:57

You’re listening to Pop Culture Debate Club. I’m Aminatou Sow. Each week we bring together two guests to duke it out over a pop culture obsession. I’ll be asking them a series of questions, and whoever successfully convinces me wins. Today, we’re bringing two music experts head to head to debate the best hip hop film of all time. My first guest is beloved hip hop artist Fat Tony. We’re also joined by Bomani Jones, host of the sports and pop culture podcast the right time. He’s got a new series on YouTube about how 1994 was the ultimate year in hip hop. Oh, and also, they’re both from one of our greatest cities, Houston, Texas. So let’s get into it.

 

Aminatou Sow  02:58

So let’s meet our panelists joining me today is host of the podcast the right time. Bomani Jones, Bomani, welcome to the show.

 

Bomani Jones  03:05

Thank you.

 

Aminatou Sow  03:06

Also with us is hip hop artist Fat Tony. His latest album is called I Will Make a Baby in this damn economy. Welcome to the show, Tony.

 

Fat Tony  03:14

What it do?

 

Aminatou Sow  03:15

So you’re from Houston.

 

Fat Tony  03:16

I’m from Houston, Texas, and screaming everywhere I go report. I’m from Third Ward,

 

Aminatou Sow  03:21

Aand Bomani, you’re from Houston too.

 

Bomani Jones  03:22

Yes, I am.

 

Fat Tony  03:23

Oh, where?

 

Bomani Jones  03:24

I grew up, over by bullet Brook mall, which is a problem because anybody from office 288 doesn’t think there’s any Houston that’s north of 288 but that is, that is true. That is true. Fat Tony, I researched you while we were sitting here. I didn’t realize that you were so Houston, that you were from Nigeria.

 

Aminatou Sow  03:45

I was like, Anthony, Obi is a Nigerian, and that is, you know, like, after Lagos, Nigeria, it’s Houston, Texas and London, UK. Like people, I grew up in Nigeria, so I know I love, okay.

 

Bomani Jones  03:59

I was gonna say we lived in Nigeria for a year. My parents had full brights at a university in the north.

 

Fat Tony  04:05

That’s amazing. That’s cool, yeah, honestly, like growing up in Houston. Far as the Niger stuff goes, it was kind of shocking to go outside the city and outside the state and notice there aren’t Niger people everywhere in America like I thought that was just normal, and I was in for a real rude awakening when I came to California. I’m guessing.

 

Bomani Jones  04:29

You know my man, Toby?

 

Fat Tony  04:30

Hell yeah, I know Toby. I know all the Nigerian Houston people. If you a Nigerian rapper from Houston, I’ve talked to you at least twice.

 

Aminatou Sow  04:39

Wow, well, you know, today’s show was about the best hip hop movies. Bomani, what Hip Hop film are you going with today?

 

Bomani Jones  04:46

I’m going with House Party, which I consider to be a legitimate modern American classic that, for reasons that befuddled me somewhat, is not treated as such. I think it is treated as a bit of a cult classic. It’s treated simply as a great Hip Hop movie. But it. Actually, I think, runs a lot deeper than people realize, and lays the blueprint for what every rapper at the time said they did not want to be, but ultimately did want to be, which is mega multimedia sauce.

 

Aminatou Sow  05:12

Wow, did you immediately think of house party? Or were there other contenders?

 

Bomani Jones  05:16

I immediately thought of house party. It was, it was my number one anyway, but it also it’s very easy to make a real cliche choice when it comes to all of these, because it was that run when I was in like seventh grade where you get your Boys in the Hood, your menacing societies, you get Jason’s lyric. A couple years ago, you said that whole run of these dowry movies where you guarantee somebody was going to die at the end, right? This was somebody just got a whooping. I wanted to kind of just highlight that back when you used to get whooping.

 

Aminatou Sow  05:43

Tony, what Hip Hop film are you going with today?

 

Fat Tony  05:45

I chose CB4, written by Chris Rock and Nelson George. It’s a movie from 1993 it’s a movie that I first discovered,  Iprobably on cable, and then later, when I was in high school in the 2000s I copped the DVD at Target and was obsessed with it.

 

Aminatou Sow  06:04

Did you have any other contenders for today, or was that the top choice no matter what?

 

Fat Tony  06:08

That was, my top choice, no matter what, because I feel like it’s not just a movie that has some rappers in it. The entire film is not only talking about these rappers lives, but it talks about the industry. And I feel like the overall thesis of this movie is about how in rap music there’s a fetishization of authenticity or keeping it real, or being gangster or being street.

 

Bomani Jones  06:35

So CB4, to me, is interesting one, because this is not a bad thing, but it’s coded on a couple of different levels or I feel like white people watch it, they got different things they’re laughing at because it is very much so, like Spinal Tap, yeah, which I don’t think is necessarily in line with the sensibilities of the median viewer. See before when it first comes out. So you have these things where not everybody who’s watching the movie is laughing necessarily at the same thing. See, before also has a monstrous cast that at the time, I don’t think you necessarily knew all those dudes were monsters, but when you go back and look at who all is in that, you’re like, yo, this is a lot of heavy hitters that in this movie. So well chose well chose.

 

Fat Tony  07:13

I love House Party. Honestly, house party is probably one of the first movies I ever saw in my entire life. I feel like I saw a House Party and class act the same weekend, and it’s one of those movies that defined my childhood and made me want to get into music. And I’m really interested to get into what you said about how rappers now want to be multimedia moguls and crossover in all realms of entertainment. Because I because, from what I know, there was a bit of backlash with kid and play, because they were very clean in their music. It was always aimed to be a crossover thing, and they were very popular with just strictly rap audiences. But they also crossed over too, and like a similar way, to Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince, who are also legends in hip hop first and foremost to core rap fans, but they were able to spread out to white folks and more, you know, right?

 

Aminatou Sow  08:09

So Tony, I’m going to start with you. Can you give me a quick plot summary of CB4 and why you feel so strongly that it is the best film today.

 

Fat Tony  08:19

So CB4, like Beau Monte said, is basically Spinal Tap. It’s a mockumentary black comedy talking about this gangster rap group and their trials and tribulations. The group is called, see before it stands for cell block four prison. Reference, everyone likes that kind of shit for some weird reason. But basically, the movie is about Chris Rock, who’s a middle class kid named Alfred. He has two friends, and they’ve been trying to get on as rappers, trying out different gimmicks. There’s a local hustler named gusto, who’s kind of a Nino brown figure. He ends up getting caught up and going to jail. And Chris Rock’s character and his two friends decide to take on his real life persona and imitate him and make people think that he was the actual dope dealing gusto. And when they do this, they blow up, they get a big record deal, they’re all over TV, they’re on tours, they’re they’re controversial, and the whole film is basically Chris Rock talking to a documentarian named a White who is making a documentary about CB4, the most dangerous band in the world, and hijinks ensue.

 

Aminatou Sow  09:32

Wow, do you remember what the buzz about the movie was when it was out?

 

Fat Tony  09:37

So I wasn’t conscious of this movie when it dropped in 1993 I think I was a bit too young for it, but for my research, it looks like it was mixed reviews critically, but it profited. It had a $6 million budget, think it said at the box office, ended up taking in like $18 million So it’s a success, but I often see this movie as an underrated movie or a often forgotten movie, because many people that I know around my age, I’m in my mid 30s, some of them haven’t even seen this movie. They haven’t heard of it. It kind of flew by them, and it’s crazy, because the cast is fucking amazing, from Chris Rock to Alan Payne to Phil Hartman to Chris Elliott, Charlie Murphy, stupid movie.

 

Aminatou Sow  10:30

But Monty, can you do the same for me? Tell me what House Party is about and why you feel so strongly about it.

 

Bomani Jones  10:37

All right, so House Party is about kid and play two of the oldest high school students in the history of high school. They are It starts there at the cafeteria. And play is having a party at his house because his parents are out of town somewhere down south, and kid would like to go, except he gets into a scuffle at school with the actual oldest high school students of all time, played by full force, and he gets in trouble, because, basically, he gets beat up and he gets in trouble for it, and he gets to the house, and he’s trying to get there before they send a letter to his pops. Pop sees the letter say, what happened? He can’t go to the party, but he sneaks out, goes to the party, and another situation where hijinks do, in fact, ensue. But it’s important to note, there’s two girls that are at the party, Sydney and sherraine, and they supposed to be the baddest two girls at the school, but somehow these two guys actually have chances at them, and they are from different backgrounds, and it’s hijinks, but it’s also a very interesting look at class and blackness in America and how these things run together.

 

Aminatou Sow  11:42

Can you tell me a little bit about like, how this movie was received when it came out? What were the feelings around it?

 

Bomani Jones  11:48

Right, so it came out when I was nine years old, but it’s in 1990 where the mere idea of having this movie is kind of crazy, right? So it’s not the first rap movie that’s come out. You’ve had beat tree, you’ve had breaking you’ve had all these movies that have come out. This one felt a little interesting, because it’s like it’s a teenage movie, ostensibly, but it’s very easy for grown people to get into it, right? Like the themes are rather adult. They just use high school as a bit of a backdrop, just like CB four is a small budget that wound up making big dollars. But it did not take long before this became an institution of like in the hip hop time capsule of that time, and in the last 35 years or so since it’s come out, it just stood out, I think, as a legitimate and earnest classic.

 

Aminatou Sow  12:28

I know that there was an updated house party movie and that was not very well received. Do we think that an updated CB4 could work today?

 

Fat Tony  12:37

I think that it could, but it would come off kind of corny, because I think the media landscape is so different, like, what made see before work is it’s at a time where the audience’s only lens into what an artist was was really like, was through an interview and like the press or watching them on a music video channel, and I think now it would be hard to really believe that someone could fake like they’re from the streets with like social media, and everyone pretty much has tabs on what every artist does around the clock. And if anybody is on some fake shit, there’s a whole industry around gossiping about rappers and if they real or not. So nowadays, I think you’d have to entail some of that shit. And honestly, we hear so much about academics and all these fools, I don’t think it would come off the same. I think this is a movie that’s really special for its time, because it’s also around a time where the idea of a gangster rapper was relatively new to the mainstream.

 

Bomani Jones  13:43

I don’t think it could work. But I think the reason it doesn’t work is that if in 1993 we thought you was a fraud, we toss you up out the paint. We’ll let you live like there’s a rapper named Rick Ross. We are familiar with Ricky Ross that had a remarkably similar profile to the rick ross that we are talking about, and we found out that he was a corrections officer, and then he came out with the first verse on that album after the fact, and it was like, okay, cool. We’re gonna let you live like we have decided that if you played a role well enough, we’ll let you do it. And I think that’s the hard part of making that sort of thing work right now, because where in that movie gusto comes at Albert for taking who he was freeway, Ricky Ross. Took Rick Ross to court and lost. It’s all a different game now.

 

Fat Tony  14:26

How did he lose though?

 

Bomani Jones  14:31

Like, I need to find out the particularities of what he tried to sue for, because it seems pretty obvious that he has a case. I don’t even know what the case is, but it should seem like he got what?

 

Fat Tony  14:41

Damn shame. I mean, another thing that’s interesting about CB four versus the rick ross thing. Rick Ross is clearly not freeway. Ricky Ross, but in this movie, Alfred, aka MC Gusto, is telling people, yo, […] I am the action. Gusto that you have heard about. There is no other guy. It is me. I was in cell block four, but with crazy in this movie, the real gusto doesn’t know about see before, until he’s in prison and sees somebody reading a magazine and then sees the music video on TV, and by this point, it’s safe to assume that they’ve been a group for months now, because they have a hit record they like, climb to the top of the rap charts, the R and B charts, the pop charts. They’re on the cover of Word Up Spin Magazine, the sorts like. It kind of blows my mind that this news didn’t travel back to the real gusto faster, like.

 

Bomani Jones  15:43

The real gusto ain’t the gangster he’s advertised as be it, if this could go on for so long, that part, actually.

 

Aminatou Sow  15:52

But it’s also those movies, you know, where you’re like, oh, if people had cell phones or the internet, the movie is cut in eight minutes. You know, like, you’re like, this whole premise doesn’t work anymore because information travels faster and people can talk to each other. Here’s what I’m also like. I’m wondering from both of you, like, how we feel about the actual music that is featured and performed in both of these films on a scale of like one to 10. How good do you think the music in your film is like one being like and then 10 is like 10 out of 10 great?

 

Fat Tony  16:21

Now, do you mean the soundtrack or these songs that the characters are doing?

 

Aminatou Sow  16:25

Both the songs and the soundtrack? Because I think it’s like a little different in both movies.

 

Fat Tony  16:30

Well, CB4 their hit song is sweat from my balls, and they come out on stage with some big plastic black balls that they hold. I think sweat from my balls is an incredible song. You know, another thing about sea before, how I got into it was, as a kid, I would see it come up on cable, but then I’d get on stuff like Napster or Limewire, and I download the C before songs because as a juvenile, they’re just super silly and hyper sexual and outrageous, you know what I mean. And outside of the sea before character songs, the actual movie soundtrack is amazing. You got the far side. You got Public Enemy. You even have cameos from from ICE T and ice cube and Flavor Flav and easy E and Shaq, who is easily the best rapping basketball player ever. You got the butt hole surface in that motherfucker? You got Halle Berry in it. It is such a good snapshot of what would be the dominant Gen X culture, from alt shit to hip hop.

 

Bomani Jones  17:36

Yeah, now the music in house party overall we talk the music in the movie is a great fit for a house party in 1989 which is exactly what they were going for, right? Yeah, but, man, the sound of 1989 is very particular to 1989 it’s not the sound that would like sweep the world like two years later, if you’re talking about those days, you get stuff like, ain’t my type of height, which is perfect for exactly what they doing. If you and your homeboy wear colorful shirts and got dances y’all practice at home, this music is 100% right there for you. We are both from Houston, and we can tell you it don’t dance like that. You know what I’m saying, like these boys out here, like grooving around and kicking their feet together. I don’t know what the fuck that is, but the soundtrack itself has a couple of interesting moments. One, the Public Enemy flavor play, can’t do nothing for you. Man, which goes to the break of dawn, which is LL, cool. J, it winds up on Mama said, knock you out when that comes out. But him, at 24 years old, coming back against the world, and taking everybody out first by first, just knocking dudes down left and right. And then one of the best scenes in that whole movie, The always ever seen, where everybody it gives you the high school slow dance, everybody trying to pull one close and just hope, just hope she won’t mind if I put my hand on her booty.

 

Fat Tony  18:57

Oh, my God. That scene made me want to grow up and go to high school like that was one of the first scenes. And this whole movie made me be like, Damn, I can’t wait to become a teenager. It’s gonna be cracking. It’s gonna be the best time of my entire life.

 

Bomani Jones  19:13

It made me feel like my high school was not popping, like I was not old enough to like for that to be what it was, but Martin singing always and forever in all girls ear. I remember, by the way, this is always stuck with me. God, I hope no girl is just blowing bubbles over my shoulder while I’m dancing with her. Oh, my God, musically in line with this movie, in a very interesting point, my buddy Shannon Penn always makes this point. He’s right. The plot of the movie is basically Luther Vandross medley, a bad boy having a party like it basically goes from beginning to end on that. But when you hear that’s what the movie starts with, that baseline off of that and it goes through the plot is very much so mapped out by Sam Cooke’s song with Luther doing his own thing at the front.

 

Fat Tony  19:57

That’s very dope, actually, bro. What the fuck. I don’t even know about that.

 

Aminatou Sow  20:01

No, on that note, let’s take a quick break.

 

Aminatou Sow  22:18

So Tony, you’re a professional rapper. Can you tell me how CB4 resonates with you on a personal level?

 

Fat Tony  23:25

All right, so from like a musical rapper standpoint, the rappers in the movie are not the characters that I even identify with the most, even though I, you know should I’m also a rap artist. I also have a middle class background, I totally get it, but the motherfucker I love the most is Charlie Murphy, because his performance in this movie is outstanding, and if he had wrapped his lines, it would have been a classic song. What I also love about this movie is they don’t just focus on the artist, they focus on the industry and how you even have the fucking record label that wants the controversial artists who they’ll throw under the bus when the controversy gets too hectic, but they want the controversy when the dolls are flowing. You have the white journalist who is fetishizing the black artists and is curious about them, and is kind of hoping that all of his stereotypes about them are going to be true, like Chris Elliott’s character comes in there, hoping that CB four are as dangerous, ghetto, scary, vicious as he dreams them to be.

 

Aminatou Sow  24:36

What about you? Bomani, is there something in house party that resonates with you on a personal level?

 

Bomani Jones  24:42

One thing that doesn’t happen that much in American life for most people, but really happens, I think a lot more to black people, is navigating up and down the class stratus, particularly in school environments. And so what is so interesting to me about house party? It seems to be a very clear point about this. Everybody of those four main characters, they’re at particular stations class wise, right? So play has got the joint where he’s got two parents in the house. They gone traveling, but that means they got a big enough house where you got to put the good stuff away and bring the plastic out, because other people gonna be there, so forth and so on, right? Then they got nosy neighbors and all the things that come along with that level of a middle class upbringing. You got kid who’s got a dad, his mother isn’t there. They’re not, I would not say they are poor, but they definitely looking broke. And that’s the whole point of right, and that his right. And that’s the difference. There’s a difference between those two things, right? And whose mama works, right? Whose mama works during the day, whose people work at night, all of this stuff with the girls. You got the girl that lives in the projects, and so when it’s time, so this the light skinned girl whose parents got all the money and everything else, and they having tuxedo parties, the discussions between the two boys about which one they should holler at, like, No, you need to holler at the girl whose parents got a house, because your dad be all over you. You need some place that you can go. You ain’t ready for a project girl, because dot, and these are navigations that people make in life all the time. So when you look at that movie, it’s real life, bro. It’s really a movie about class. It’s about how you move, meeting the people that you meet based on where you what they think of you based on where you from, and what you think about them based on where they’re from and based on where you from.

 

Aminatou Sow  26:19

So real when you’re re examining these pics, like, because I re watch both movies this weekend, what in these choices, like, doesn’t hold up you think, like in the present, or is there anything that you like struggle with?

 

Fat Tony  26:31

I think for CB4, the only shit that really falls flat for me is some of the homophobia, which I think is just part of that era. Like, there’s like, one, all right, one of my favorite scenes is Alan Payne’s character works at a sex hotline, but he works on the gay male sex hotline, and that itself is supposed to be the joke.

 

Aminatou Sow  26:53

Bomani, what about your pack?

 

Bomani Jones  26:55

I mean, as I said before, and I don’t know if it sticks with me, but these motherfuckers is old, old, I tell you, old. Them full force dudes in high school. They so old to be in high school, like that’s, I mean, if you wish to allow that to be a problem, it can be a problem. One thing about moves in that era, and I think it’s something that is more difficult for us to do now, and I think very difficult, particularly for people who are millennials and Zoomers and watching old stuff, is the willingness to suspend disbelief like the technology did not exist, to allow these perfect recreations of life as it does now, yes, you went into it, it’s like going to a play, right? Like you went into it with the understanding this isn’t all going to be 100% like this. We just gonna groove with it, right? We used to play baseball with the ghost man. You ain’t have no people to play baseball. Ghost man on first base. We was willing to imagine. You’re gonna have to do some imagining. When you go back and you watch this movie, right? That’s, that’s, that’s going to be a thing that you’re gonna have to do.

 

Aminatou Sow  27:57

All right, now that we’re warmed up and we know even more about your picks. We’re going to move on to our lightning round. I’m looking for really quick answers here, Tony and see before Chris Rock has a phony Jerry curl. Easy E from NWA, have you ever rocked a Jerry curl? And if not, what’s your wildest haircut you’ve ever had?

 

Fat Tony  28:16

I was never of the age where a Jerry curl was an option as a cool hairstyle. Like the first cool hairstyle I ever heard of was a ball fade, which is like the late 90s or the mid 90s. You know what I mean? I never knew anyone my age that had a Jerry curl ever. Soon as I became conscious, the Jerry curl was out.

 

Aminatou Sow  28:40

Fair enough. Bomani, what’s the wildest hairstyle that you’ve ever had?

 

Bomani Jones  28:44

When I was eight years old, I was going to get a haircut, and I asked my mama what she wanted me to get. She said I could get anything I wanted. And I said, even a mohawk. And she said, yes. And as an eight year old, that meant that I was then obligated to go get a mohawk. And I went and got the Mohawk, and I was so ashamed that I didn’t want to go outside. Now I understand that in this day and age, kids can’t understand how ridiculous you looked in the 80s with a mohawk walking around, because it became accepted behavior.

 

Aminatou Sow  29:10

You would have been the coolest kid on the block today if you had a mohawk.

 

Bomani Jones  29:14

Yeah, today I was just looking like Mr. T, I learned a valuable lesson that day.

 

Aminatou Sow  29:24

Tony, at one point in CB4 the group performs their song, sweat from my balls, which is wild, because 10 years later, Little John releases get low. Who do you think nailed testicle humor better see before, or Little John?

 

Fat Tony  29:38

Little John obviously from the window to the wall to the sweat drips down my balls. That’s such an iconic visual. See before talking about sweat from my balls, it felt like it’s a straight up joke. Little John talking about the balls, I felt like, Yo, I actually want sweat from my balls when I leave the club with her. CB4 sweaty balls. I’m like, I don’t really want those sweaty balls. Sweaty balls a joke.

 

Aminatou Sow  30:04

Bonnie, what do you think about that?

 

Bomani Jones  30:06

I would also like to start by saying that from the window to the walls. I mean, ain’t that where the windows are? Like, maybe […]

 

Aminatou Sow  30:17

It’s like, what are we doing?

 

Bomani Jones  30:21

Y’all got windows in the middle of the goddamn room […]

 

Aminatou Sow  30:23

That is on the wall.

 

Bomani Jones  30:26

Then look, you gotta realize I went to college in Atlanta. I was gone by the time that song came out, but I remember I came back one summer they played that boy the club was jamming. That was a moment boy.

 

Fat Tony  30:39

Wow, that is a classic song for every occasion, the high school dance, the club, the Bar Mitzvah at the wedding, everybody rocked to that show.

 

Aminatou Sow  30:49

It’s so crazy because people do that, they’re just like […]

 

Bomani Jones  30:52

Yeah, because it’s because the song is now 21 years old. Like, look, that whole thing about you can’t play this song at your wedding reception because your grandmama gonna be there. That’s over, Grandma day over, I tell you over because your granny is owning her nasty at this point, she had no other choice.

 

Aminatou Sow  31:08

Um, Tony, what’s your favorite scene from CB4? Can you describe it for me?

 

Fat Tony  31:12

Okay, so my favorite scene is when they in this restaurant. That’s an amazing concept. The restaurant is called Big Ass biscuit, and Alan Payne is sitting with the rest of see before, because Alan Payne is also the conscious brother of this crew. You know what I mean. He has his mentor, Baba Ock, traveling everywhere with him. When he goes solo, he makes his hit song, I’m black, black, bigoted black […] And what I love about that song scene is they really let it go on for as long as possible, longer than you ever think it would, until the blacks turned the bigities.

 

Aminatou Sow  31:48

Bomani, what’s your favorite scene on house party?

 

Bomani Jones  31:51

Like Robert Harris showing up at the party to shut that down is way up there, right?

 

Fat Tony  31:57

Absolutely.

 

Bomani Jones  31:58

All the scenes with full force in the jeep together, talking about what they doing that night. Because one of the best parts of it is, I forget what my man stab right. His partners is kind of down with what he’s doing, but they also find him to be ridiculous, and they can’t understand why he has this level of beef with kids. So you know, bumble man, bow legged Luke, every time he talks, he gonna kick his right. And so I think he rest up the gas can, cause he decided he gonna go burn the house down. If Bo Lake and Lewis like E waiting in it, I thought we were gonna show up kick some fucking ass. Nobody said anything about burning people up.

 

Aminatou Sow  32:37

Just so incredulous that this has now turned to our your impersonation game is so good, like your impersonations are killing, every time he talks, everything he says, he gonna kick his fucking ass.

 

Bomani Jones  32:52

Never stops. Being funny never stops.

 

Aminatou Sow  32:55

Oh, man, amazing. This last question is for both of you, because you’ve both touched on it. You know, I find interesting that, like, both of these movies feature, like, prominent father figures in in the protagonist lives, like blue collar dudes who kind of, they don’t understand their sons. And so I’m just curious if you could talk about the parental representation in, like, your pick, like Bomani, you go first.

 

Bomani Jones  33:17

Yeah. I mean, I think the thing that made that interesting and becomes, I think, a very interesting contrast to the time we have now that I find fascinating. I ain’t got kids. I don’t know who on here got them or listening, but all y’all playing to be cool and friends with y’all kids, I’ll be dressing the same, you know, like y’all be wearing the same colorful ass shirts that your kids is out here wearing. Like I don’t people, at least pretend to relate to their kids in a way that wasn’t the case before. And so what you had was the difference in the gap that a, I think, is necessary for a certain measure of authority, but the dad figure landed differently because they were clearly very different. Like, there’s a scene where kid is talking about, you know, being sad since his mom died, and his pops tries to come talk to him about it. He wants to put his hand on his head, but he got the the the High Top Fade, the eraser head, and he goes to put his hand on his hand, he just stops and looks at his hair like, what are we doing? None of my friends act like they don’t understand. They kids anymore, and I find that to be preposterous. You’re not supposed to know what they about. They’re not supposed to be the same, right? And so that’s the thing. It was a clear love that was there, but a love that also came with distance and authority.

 

Aminatou Sow  34:24

That gentle parenting today. It’s, you know, it’s doing what it’s doing.

 

Fat Tony  34:29

Yeah? Robin Harris got to be the ultimate dad. He is probably my favorite dad in any teen comedy film ever.

 

Bomani Jones  34:36

Do you know how old he was in that movie? How old?

 

Fat Tony  34:39

No.

 

Bomani Jones  34:39

36.

 

Fat Tony  34:40

He’s my age. That’s crazy. Adults playing some some high school kids, and a man in his mid 30s.

 

Aminatou Sow  34:50

Playing a middle aged man, yeah, not tracks.

 

Fat Tony  34:54

I mean my favorite parental figure in CB four, and she only really. Got one scene. It’s the grandmother. It’s Chris Rock’s Granny, when his character gets home after breaking up. See before and his siblings are reading his like little sister’s reading to like the family. And then the granny says, shut up, girl. You just think you’re so smart because you can read. It’s perfect.

 

Aminatou Sow  35:20

Wow, that is sending me to the moon. Let’s take a break.

 

Aminatou Sow  36:36

Okay, we have our final round, which will be pretty fast. It’s me just gonna ask you to state your final case, so you get 30 ish uninterrupted seconds, you know, like to state your case as to why your choice is the most important Hip Hop film. And, you know, talk about the cultural impact that it’s had pomanny, you go first All right?

 

Bomani Jones  36:58

I gave you all the things that were great about the movie, right? And it kind of lay like hidden play. Got to do cartoons and had more movies and everything else like this is kind of the blueprint that you saw followed later for what a rapper could do. But do not forget, for better or worse, it is shooting this movie that Martin Lawrence looks at Tisha cabin and says, If I ever get a TV show, I’m gonna cast you as my love interest. This is the beginning of Martin, the TV show. It starts with house party. Now, did Martin make the world better? I ain’t say that, but it did become something that was very important to people. Boo, yeah.

 

Aminatou Sow  37:31

I love it. What about you, Tony?

 

Fat Tony  37:33

So CB4 is the best hip hop movie of all time, because it’s not just centers the rappers. It parodies the industry. It parodies the audience, and it’s one of the first movies that, I think offered a parody of what later became known as the hood film with NC before they’re making fun of New Jack City. They’re making fun of juice. They’re making fun of this emerging industry, this multimedia, hip hop world takeover. And also you got to give it up for Charlie Murphy, because Charlie Murphy has some of the best dialog I’ve ever heard in a film, ever in this movie, from him saying, I’m three generations deep and gangster them, to when the girl calls him and says, Hey, do you remember me? And he says, yeah. How could I forget the bitch that dissed me to him, calling the cop fake ass. Bruce Willis to him when he finally hooking up with the girl, she said, Yo, let me slip into something a little more comfortable. And he says, slip into something a little more comfortable, bitch. What could be more comfortable than what you already got off?

 

Aminatou Sow  38:35

Oh my gosh. Y’all this, first of all, thank you for giving me so much of your time today, like you’re both, like, wonderfully entertaining people, so smart, so cool. And I also just love the opportunity to, like, revisit both of these films. It was the best part of my weekend, like bar none, and I came in here today thinking I was gonna give House Party the win, but I gotta go with CB4, and I’ll tell you why. I’ll tell you why. It is because of all of the industry stuff that you see going on in the background. I was like, I never picked up on that before I saw it. I was like, it’s so prescient. It’s so relevant to what we’re having now. So it’s not that serious, because Bomani like.

 

Bomani Jones  39:18

No, you go, you go, you’re gonna go with CB4 because you were slow to pick up guys.

 

Aminatou Sow  39:22

No, I’m going with CB4 because I’m a young person, hello listen.

 

Fat Tony  39:27

I mean, the movies are only three years apart when they came out.

 

Aminatou Sow  39:30

I know, but here’s the deal. Like House Party is it’s like an undeniable movie is, like the impact is undeniable. There’s nothing to be said about that. I was, like, it is in the American Film canon. Like, it is a it’s a cool movie. But, you know, like, I’m sorry if somebody’s gonna win, and I re watch both of them this this weekend. And also, hearing, I don’t know, like the dialog is sharper in CB4, it is a more sophisticated movie. It is future, forward.

 

Bomani Jones  40:00

To be when, uh, when Sydney walked in there, he walked past. He look at her show. Big No, the running dick, Gregory. Gag peanut, yeah, some of that dick. Gregory’s all the different running game. George Clinton, as the DJ at the party, is smashing the cop by crying two tears in the bucket.

 

Aminatou Sow  40:23

We make hard choices here at pop culture Debate Club. We make impossible choices here.

 

Bomani Jones  40:28

I did not care about winning until I lost.

 

Aminatou Sow  40:31

It’s tough, you know. And no one can say that, you know, like, I’m like, maybe there’s a little bit of collusion with my West African brother, but that’s just, you know, that’s just.

 

Bomani Jones  40:38

Wow, that’s how far we could talk about that, or we could just let these Nigerian shenanigans play themselves out and leave me on the outside, that’s never happened before.

 

Aminatou Sow  40:50

Well, you know, this will be a good time to plug me and Tony’s podcast. Nigerian shenanigans coming at you. Thank you both for being here.

 

CREDITS  41:04

Thanks to our guests for joining us. If you want more of Bomani Jones and Fat Tony, you can check out Bomani’s new series on YouTube about how 1994 was the ultimate year in hip hop. Fat Tony recently celebrated the 10 year anniversary of his album Smart Ass Black Boy. Check out the newly remixed and remastered version on Bandcamp. There’s more Pop Culture Debate Club with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like Carl tart and Lamar Woods from the best sports movie episode talking about working at Madame Tussaud’s Wax Museum, subscribe now in Apple podcasts. Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC.  I’m Aminatou Sow the show is produced by me, Joanna Solotaroff, Kryssy Pease, Lamar Wood and Dani Matias. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our SVP of weekly content is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer.  Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.