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Description

The intersection between addiction and the holidays can be challenging. Even more so when you add a global pandemic into the mix. So Nzinga is ending Season 1 of In Recovery by answering listener questions. We hear from a woman who is worried about the toxic environment that will come with her wife’s return from rehab, even if her drinking won’t. Another listener asks about how to cope with so much loss and grief in isolation, and a third wants to know how to handle the guilt trip she gets when she tries to set boundaries.

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Transcription

SPEAKERS

Vanessa, Dr. Nzinga Harrison, Claire Jones

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  00:03

Hey, everybody, I am Nzinga and you’re listening to IN RECOVERY: HOLIDAY EDITION. IN RECOVERY is a show about all things addiction. And so what we’re going to spend this week talking about is really that intersection between addiction and the holidays, that can be pretty tricky to navigate. If you’re a first-time listener, I’m a doctor, psychiatrist, and addiction expert. I’ve spent my life dedicated to walking the journey of recovery with people who have addiction, and their families. I’m Co-Founder and Chief Medical officer of Eleanor Health, and your host of IN RECOVERY. So some of the things we’re going to talk about today, how to set boundaries with your family, how to set boundaries with yourself, food, substances, this especially painful time that so many of us are having around the holidays, how to be around family members that may be creating toxic environments, how to cope with loss, we’re getting into a lot today. So, Claire.

Claire Jones

Yes.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Either for you or for people you know, what’s different about these holidays?

Claire Jones 

Well, the biggest thing is just not spending them together. So my family, everyone lives in Colorado, except for me, but I’m in Utah, which is not very far away. And we are always, usually together on the holidays. And despite the fact that all my siblings live in Denver, no one was together for Thanksgiving, we’re still not sure that we’re gonna be together over Christmas. And that’s hard. And then I’m trying to think I mean, I think that’s the case where a lot of people I know, it’s just like, just not going home. And for some people that’s really nice. They’re like, dodged a bullet. And for others, it’s really hard, and sad and really isolating.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Yeah, I think I mean, a lot of folks are going through that, and you kind of put your finger on for some people. It’s nice, right? So we typically think about the holidays. And it’s like, holiday cheer and great times with family and rest from work. And everything’s amazing. And it’s not like that for a lot of people at baseline. So a lot of families have a lot of conflict. Definitely if you know, you have trouble setting boundaries with your family, around drug use, or alcohol use or other toxic relationship dynamics that can be in families, or if you’re in early recovery, and there’s going to be drinking or drug use. I mean, it can go so many different ways. And I think COVID has just turned up the difficulty.

Claire Jones  02:47

Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

On what folks are going to be going through this holiday season, so much like you Thanksgiving and Christmas are big get together holidays for my family. So they’re usually like 50 of us, that would be together over Thanksgiving. And it was just the five of us in our house. And it was like, and then next level for people who have lost loved ones for COVID. And this is going to be their first set of holidays without the people that they’ve lost. That’s introducing kind of another angle. So my heads up before we get into these questions for Ask Me Anything, it’s just like, one, give yourself grace, two, we have to find some way to sit in acceptance of the difference of these holidays. So I know a lot of us, myself included are grieving the loss of what the holiday would typically have been. And so I want kind of all of us to try to figure out a way to accept and get something good out of how the holidays are. So like Claire, I know you went rock climbing.

Claire Jones 

Yeah

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Right? Not typical thanksgiving for you. But it put a smile on your face when I mentioned it just now.

Claire Jones  04:00

Yeah, definitely.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

So I hope that we can find some of that. And then the third is going to be practicing an ounce of prevention. So that’s going to be the common thread that you hear flow through all of the answers to the questions that we take today. And what I mean by practicing an ounce of prevention is that one, be careful, right? So avoid big groups, we’re still going to be in big COVID environment, but two, I’m talking about emotional ounce of prevention. If you know you have someone in your family who’s dealing with active addiction, and that’s going to be sad. I want us thinking about making a plan. If you’re an active addiction yourself or early recovery, and you know that there are going to be some triggers. I want us making a plan.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

if you know that certain people in your family even without drugs, bring the toxicity. I want us making a plan because all of us are a little bit you know been having to use our coping skills to the nth degree for now. Nine daggone months and so our cups are low. And when that happens, we’re at risk for all hell breaking loose. And so we’re going to try to practice an ounce of prevention. So that’s how I’m going to try to answer all of these questions that we have.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

All right, so we jump in.

Claire Jones 

Yeah, let’s jump in. So our first question is coming from a listener named Stephanie, who wrote into our form, and she says:

Claire Jones

“As someone who struggles with anxiety and setting boundaries, I’m finding myself more and more in situations where I try and set boundaries by saying no and decline opportunities that I do not feel work in my best interests. However, those around me that I know I struggle with this typically use it to their advantage, even after saying no, I still get asked again, or guilt trip or pressured into saying, Yes. Can we talk on the podcast more about setting boundaries? And what respecting consent outside of sexual situations looks like? I often find myself being a guest person. But how do I navigate this one saying no, doesn’t seem to be enough for others”

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  06:07

Okay, thank you, Stephanie, for sending in this question during the holidays even more difficult to set boundaries, because the holidays are all about giving and doing for others and bringing joy to others. And it sounds like the people around you who are already not being very respectful of your attempt to set boundaries, will use that for their advantage. So one, practice, practice, practice, practice, a lot of times it can be easier to practice your boundaries on strangers, because they have less ability to get you. And when I say practice, I mean like on the smallest things, so your cell phone rings, and you don’t know what number it is, and you don’t want to pick it up. Don’t pick it up and say to yourself, “you know what, I just set a boundary,” or you do pick it up, and they say, “Hi, Stephanie, we’re calling to see if we want to buy your house” if you were thinking about putting up and usually you would like have a whole conversation. And you just say “Thank you so much for calling. But please take me off of your list, have a great day.” and you hang up and then give your props for setting that boundary. Every time you set a boundary, give yourself props, because every single time you’re reinforcing your ability to set that boundary so that it gets easier when you’re working with somebody who has less respect for the boundaries that you’re trying to set.

The other thing is practicing an ounce of prevention on that anxiety. So the lower we have your anxiety in the first place, the easier it will be to set boundaries, because part of the reason you don’t set boundaries is because setting boundaries makes your anxiety worse. And so I definitely want you in meditation, I definitely want you working on mindfulness. I definitely want you like you can literally Google thought stopping that will teach you how to catch your thought that’s causing you anxiety and replacing with something else. Knowing what your triggers are and trying to minimize those triggers. Here’s the last thing. Co-Dependents Anonymous, coda.org. You didn’t mention codependence here. But remember, we don’t have to like put a label on it and be like I’m codependent to be able to benefit from the support and the connection. The reason I pull out codependents anonymous for you is because a huge part of recovering from codependence is setting boundaries.

08:35

And so if you start developing a support group, and that’s going to be the other common thread, you’re going to hear through this whole thing. So we said for you an ounce of prevention is getting that anxiety as low as possible. If you know what your magic formula is for that biological, psychological, social, cultural, political, mindfulness meditation, who you hang out with is what I’m talking about right now. If you develop a support system full of people from codependents, anonymous, everybody is working on setting boundaries. And so what you’ll find is the collective ability to help each other set boundaries will be very helpful to you. And then you helping somebody else set boundaries.

Claire Jones

So because I kind of I think boundaries is like a very big part of the holidays, you know, in an non-COVID year, but then also in a COVID year, because it’s like, you know, one of the things that I think about is I’ve really haven’t had a lot of social interactions in the last nine months. And then what if, for example, I’m going to a big, new social thing that can increase anxiety, and it’s not something I’m used to and so it’s like, what boundaries Do I need to set for myself? You know, in order to make that easier or at there’s millions of examples of why boundaries are important during the holidays. You mentioned that we’ve been using our coping mechanisms to the nth degree and there’s sort of this idea Yeah, that. It’s like, “Oh, it’s COVID. You know, like, of course, I’m going to be maybe drinking more, of course, I’m going to be watching more TV, of course, I’m going to be eating more sugar like, this is a hard time. These are things I need to do to feel better.” And what if you are in a situation where you’re not doing those things like you’ve set boundaries for yourself really well. But everyone around you is like, it’s COVID. I’m going to do this sort of surrounded by a group of people who are like taking rule bending to the extreme, because not only is it COVID, but now it’s the holidays. What can you say to yourself in that situation to be like, “I need to stay with my rules, I need to stay with my own boundaries.”

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  10:39

Yeah, definitely. And the pressure is going to be there. And so I think the first thing is that one, to remind yourself that you have set these boundaries for a reason. And that reason is to keep yourself safe, whether that’s emotionally safe, whether that’s physically safe. And so not only do you have the right to set those boundaries, it’s actually the best thing for your safety, to protect those boundaries. And so you can feel guilty, like everybody’s getting together. And I’m not going to go because I know it’s going to be very difficult for me to protect my own boundaries, you have the right to make that decision. And it’s the best decision for you because it’s protecting your emotional or physical or health safety. And that’s how you can have that conversation with your friends also. So this is the ounce of prevention is like, “you know, I love y’all, and I will be trying to hang out with you for sure.” But I’m actually and this is the part that’s hard is that we have put so much stigma on admitting that we’re worried about something about ourselves, especially if that comes to substance use or food.

But just jumping over that stigma and being like, you know what, y’all are my real friends. And I know, I can say this to you, or you’re my family. And I know I can say this to you. I’m worried about myself. And I have put a boundary around myself to really like keep an eye on my drinking. And I know if I come hang out with y’all the chance that I can keep myself safe in that boundary is pretty low. So I’m going to keep it indoors. And if you know, your friend group or your support group or your family group cannot hear that message, then it is okay for them to be mad at you. Choose yourself, choose your safety, just reminding yourself, I have chosen this boundary because of safety. I want to keep myself safe. You can’t do it all at once. But start surrounding yourself with people who want to protect that safety for you.

Claire Jones  12:45

I love that. That’s so helpful. We’re going to take a quick break and we will be right back.

Claire Jones

Okay, so our next question comes from a listener named Brandi who wrote us an email that says the following:

Claire Jones 

“My two uncles recently died hours apart on October 23, 2020. They died of addiction related conditions. I’m not sure if COVID-19 played a part in it or not. But it was said that both had addiction related conditions such as Cirrhosis of the liver, Hep C etc. Growing up my two uncles stole from my grandmother upon her clothes, TVs etc. That being said, I had a very close relationship to them. For most of my life. their deaths were a devastating thing for my family when one of my uncle’s was found dead in his apartment. And then hours later, after hearing that his brother had died, my other uncle was also found dead. How can families cope with so much loss in one year, especially around the holidays? The holidays can be really challenging for families who have loved ones with substance abuse disorders, what are some things that they can do?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  13:58

Oh, Brandi Gosh, so I’m so sorry for so much loss, period, definitely in such a short period of time, definitely around the holidays. That makes it harder, definitely during this time, and COVID, where we can’t get together the way that we usually would. So you’re right holidays are very challenging for families who have lost loved ones, especially from substance use disorders because we can be so angry at our loved ones that had substance use disorders in a way that we don’t have kind of that same anger for other medical conditions. And so in terms of some of the things you can do, one is to create space for all of you to grieve differently. So a lot of times, people will move along the stages of grief and you’ve probably heard of these but like anger and disbelief and bargaining and acceptance in different ways and at different rates and popping back and forth between those different phases.

And sometimes when you see someone else grieving differently than you, it can be hard to accept that, part of what is really, really, really important in times of loss like this is connection. And so I just want your family to be very intentional about connecting with each other during this time of loss. I think the other thing specifically, is to really reminisce on the parts of your uncles that you loved. And then when the pain comes up, which it will direct that to the substance use disorder, right. So if we made kind of like a comparison, if two of your uncle’s had just died from cancer, you remember everything amazing about them. And then when you thought about the end when they were whittling away, and when you couldn’t see them. And as you could see them dying, we would blame that on the cancer and be angry at the cancer. I want you to do that same thing.

16:04

Because what it does is help you and your family create space in your heart for the light that your uncle’s brought your family and blamed the darkness, not on your uncle’s, which can make it really hard to grieve. But instead on the illness that they had. When we have loved ones die of addiction, then often we don’t talk about it. Like becomes the family secret that nobody says how they died, talk about it and be like we hate drugs. We hate addiction. It’s the worst. It stole our loved ones from us. These uncles were amazing people who were loved by your family and just let yourself feel the grief and create space for it and talk about it. Just don’t stuff it down.

Claire Jones

One question I have is for families who have loved ones that are still struggling with substance abuse right now, what are some things that families can do to reach out to their loved ones on the holidays, in a way that is supportive to somebody who’s struggling with substance abuse disorder?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Yeah, yeah, my family’s going through this right now. So I actually have an uncle who’s in the midst of severe active addiction, and a little bit disappeared from the family and somewhat unresponsive. And so it’s like, still just send a text message. Right? Like send a text message every couple of days that says, “I don’t know if you’re getting these but in case you are, we love you. We know you’re sick right now. You can always call. You can always text.” Right? Still saying Happy Thanksgiving, still saying Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, you know, Happy Kwanzaa all of the things that we’re celebrating, even if they are not responding to you just try to be a source of connection, to let them know that, you know, this illness is trying to steal you from us. And we’re doing what we can to try to keep you. And then the other part is as difficult as it is try to still have some light and some hope and some fun in your holidays. Like you’re not betraying your loved one to get some joy during these holidays, even though their illness is preventing them from being part of that, you have to continue to live your life with joy.

Claire Jones  18:24

Yeah, yeah.

Claire Jones

Okay, the next one is from Elizabeth who wrote in and said:

Claire Jones

“I have a robust family history of alcohol abuse disorder. My parents are both in recovery, and numerous aunts and uncles are working a program. My only sibling struggles with substance abuse. I’m in my 30s and recently stopped drinking for athletic performance and weight management reasons. I noticed that my mood seems much more stable during periods of alcohol abstinence as well. I have in the past had trouble stopping drinking alcohol once I’ve started. My problem drinking would range from finishing a bottle of wine when I intended to just have one or two glasses, all the way to getting too drunk at parties and embarrassing myself and my partner and feeling hungover all day long. I don’t miss alcohol most the time, but there are times that I would like to drink. Do you think I’m a good candidate to completely abstain from alcohol?”

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Hey, Elizabeth. So first of all, thank you for sending in your question. Second of all, just like you have a robust family history of alcohol use disorder, you have a robust family history of recovery. And just like genetic risk for alcohol use disorder is coded in your DNA. Opportunity for recovery is also coded in your DNA, right? So it’s a biological and it’s environmental as well. So congratulations to mom and dad, numerous aunts and uncles. That’s incredible. I’m holding out a lot of hope for your only sibling. Congratulations to you for stopping drinking before you developed a severe alcohol use disorder. That is excruciatingly difficult in this culture of drinking that we have in this country.

20:07

To get to your question, “do you think I’m a good candidate to completely abstain from alcohol?” Yes, as a matter of fact, I think everybody in the whole wide world is a good candidate to completely abstain from alcohol. The problem is we make people feel like you’re a weirdo. If you don’t want to drink alcohol, you have more than enough reasons here to never drink again, your family history, you know, you’re genetically loaded. Your athletic performance, you know, alcohol decreases that, your weight management reasons, you know, alcohol was making it harder to reach your goals. Your difficulty drinking before is transmitting to you that this could progress and become very difficult for you, getting too drunk at parties and embarrassing yourself. Nobody wants to do that. Feeling hungover all day, just gets worse, the older that you get, right? So you have more than enough reasons to completely abstain.

Does that mean that’s the only decision for you? No, you might set a controlled drinking goal. But what you know is that it cannot be in the same environment from before, when you finished a bottle of wine when you only intended to have one or two or when you were getting drunk at parties, right? So if we look at the biological input for the alcohol use disorder, that’s about 40% to 60% range. So if we look at environmental, that’s going to be between 60% and 40%, you would have to practice so much prevention, if you want to try to go for control drinking. So when there are times that you want to drink, is that just because it’s social? Is that because you have some anxiety you don’t recognize? Is that because you feel lonely? Is that because you feel bored? And so what I would recommend is that, yes, especially you have so much support for complete abstinence in your family, like just set a complete abstinence goal for right now.

22:13

Do some introspection and some therapy around what are the triggers that make you want to drink, try to control those triggers. And then at some point, you might be like, you know what, I’m gonna try control drinking. Or you might be like, you know what life was way better without alcohol, Good riddance. But give yourself a little bit of time and some professional support to figure that out. Because if you just start drinking, right now, the chance that you lose your athletic performance, slide back on your weight management goals, your mood starts to get worse, like the way it was when you were drinking, or you start drinking more than you intended. As far as we know, nothing has changed about this dude that created that. So if you start drinking, now you’re in that same stew.

Claire Jones

For other people who are sort of considering the same question of like, I don’t want to drink alcohol in the same way that I currently do. And they’re trying to decide, do I want to go for complete abstinence? Or do I want to go for controlled drinking? What are some questions that they ask themselves? Like, it sounds like it’s okay, what’s my genetic..

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Risk?

Claire Jones

Risk.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

For sure.

Claire Jones 

And then what are the contexts and environments that create negative drinking experiences?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

That’s exactly right, we can just roll that up into the word triggers.

Claire Jones 

Okay.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Right? So if we were going to make it super simple, “what’s my biological risk?” That’s looking back at your family, and what are my triggers? And triggers can be people places and things, for triggers and things includes emotions, and stressors.

Claire Jones 

To like anxiety and stress? And then, if you choose control drinking, or if you choose abstinence, and you break a boundary, this is sort of going back to our boundaries, conversation. What’s the next step for you? You’ve just broken a boundary. What are some things you say to yourself? And then what are how do you sort of like reset?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  24:12

The question is always WHY. And what you’re basically looking there for are the triggers, and the early warning signs, because you’re not going to give up you’re not going to say, well, then just forget it. Right? You set your goal again, with new information. I was watching SHOT. And one of the chefs got chopped, and he was really talented. And he said, you know, at the end they like so how do you feel now that you’re a loser? And so, so rude. I was like, how they asked the question, some people are like crying. And he said, a friend of mine said, “You’re either winning or learning.” And if you’re learning, you’re still winning.

Claire Jones 

I like that.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Ain’t that beautiful?

Claire Jones 

Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

So that’s how I would like you to  approach. If you set an abstinence goal and you drink, then it’s not because you failed. It’s not because you lost. There’s something here to learn. So what was it that led up to me drinking? And can I recognize that next time and intervene earlier?

Claire Jones 

More questions right after this break.

Claire Jones 

Okay, here’s our next question from a listener who wrote into the forum and said,:

Claire Jones

“My wife has currently completed the 30-day inpatient program and has now moved on to PHP, while she was gone, the kids and I were able to settle into our own routine, and things were much less toxic. I’m struggling with the negative impact of this person returning home and the toxic environment that has returned, even though the drinking has gone. Will it ever change?”

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

This is tricky, you have put your finger on exactly what you need to have your finger on, which is that the drinking is not the only difficulty that you’re having. So a lot of times, this is what happens when we have a loved one with alcohol use disorder or other substance use disorder or other addiction. We think if we could just get that addiction to go away, everything would be fixed. And you know, we talk about our root causes so much, and so like, biologically what’s going on, psychologically what’s going on, socially what’s going on, culturally, politically, what’s going on, that is feeding the toxic environment that you’re and I don’t want to say that your wife is creating, because the whole point of the word environment is that it’s multifactorial. And so your wife is also reacting to something. So she may be reacting to internal toxicity, she may be reacting to external toxicity, whether that’s in your nuclear family, or whether that’s at work, or whether that’s in the bigger community that’s surrounding her.

27:07

And so to make sure that the answer to “will it ever change?” has a chance to become Yes. You already know 30 days in patient is not the end of this journey. That is the beginning of this journey. If she didn’t have a full psychiatric evaluation while she was there, full psychiatric evaluation looking for childhood trauma, neglect, abuse, adverse experiences, depression, anxiety, other addictions, we need that full evaluation, if she does not have an ongoing therapist, who is skilled in alcohol use disorder, she needs an ongoing therapist who is skilled. If you all don’t have a couples therapist and family therapist, you all need a couples therapist and family therapist. If you yourself, don’t have your own support, please go to wethevillage.co and get your own support or go to al-anon.org and get your own support.

28:06

If the kids don’t have their own support. I need you and wife and like parenting so that you can best support the kids through what will be a lifelong journey. And so I say it’s like the stock market fits and starts. But we just want that general trend to be up and she has a beautiful support system in you or wouldn’t have been important enough for you to call in and ask us this question. So you’re on the right track. But that 30-day inpatient was not the end. That was only the beginning. Okay, so this is a long journey that you’re going to be on but hopefully it starts getting easier from here with the foundation laid by that 30-day inpatient.

Claire Jones 

All right, cool.

Claire Jones 

So our last question comes from Vanessa who left us a voicemail. So let’s take a listen to that.

Vanessa 

Hi, this is Vanessa. I battled weight my entire life. Problem is, there’s a stigma attached to it. And you know, if you’re fat, well, then you’re lazy and you are unmotivated. I’d like there to be more discussion in the world about the other eating disorder that gets brushed aside, which is overeating. I’ve struggled with depression, and I’ve had three to four major episodes in my life, all of which caused a spike in my compulsive eating. That is my addiction. But people don’t see it in the same way as they see alcoholism, even though it should feel the same way to me. Food triggers those pleasure centers in my brains just like alcohol or drugs would. But I’m miserable when I have to constantly diet and miserable when I’m sad so well. It just feels hopeless pretty much overall, I really wish people understood that I don’t enjoy being fat. I just have very little control over food and wish I could find a way around that. So any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thank you so much. Bye bye.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  30:03

Hey, Vanessa. So thank you for sending this in. So we actually did an episode on this, this episode three. So I hope you’ll go back and listen to it. One of the things that I said in there was, the tricky thing about food addiction is that unlike other addictions, you can’t set an abstinence goal for food. And so that can make it extremely difficult. Like we were just talking to Elizabeth about setting an abstinence goal for alcohol use disorder, but Vanessa for you, that’s not going to be an option. The other thing you’re putting your finger on during the holidays is like all about eating as much as humanly possible. So again, an ounce of prevention, right? We want to know what your root causes for eating are, whether that’s childhood trauma, adverse experiences, depression, anxiety, other mood disorders, other psychiatric disorders, stressors in your life, you want to try to have those as much in order as humanly possible, going into this holiday season, because the less those root causes are exerting pressure on eating for you, the quote, “easier” it will be for you to stick with your goals for eating through the holiday season.

The other ounce of prevention I want you to work in getting in place is your support system. So I’m not sure if you know about Overeaters Anonymous, OA. This is surrounding yourself with people that are going to support you, because if your family, or the people you’re gonna be hanging out with or anything like my family, or the people I’m going to be hanging out with, then the ounce of prevention is to get your support system in place otherwise, and then again, give yourself some latitude. And so it’s kind of the same example we gave at the top of the show, which is like I have set this boundary for my emotional and my physical safety, letting people know in advance, making your plan in advance, trying to have your meditation and your mindfulness and your anxiety and your depression and your stressors as low as possible in advance, so that you’re going into this high-risk season, best equipped to meet what your goals are. And then say you set your goal, you don’t meet the goal, root cause analysis, remember, we’re winning or we’re learning. And so just use that as a learning opportunity to say, what were the triggers? What were the early warning signs did I recognize them? If I did recognize them that I have a plan in place to try to cut it off at the knees?

32:47

If I didn’t, this is the plan I’m going to try to use next time and just be very disciplined. Not about the eating, but about that learning cycle. So setting the goal, performing as best as you can, learning what contributed to not meeting the goal and trying to put something else in place. And if you focus on being disciplined about that loop, then the eating will become you know, improved eating will become an outcome of that loop, hopefully, without the negative self-talk. Like the goal of focusing on that learning loop, is to try to take that emotional component out of it, because that emotional component and guess what? Drives eating.

Claire Jones 

Yep.

Claire Jones

Well, this is our last episode of 2020.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

Can you believe it?

Claire Jones 

I’m curious to hear some of your reflections, Nzinga, like what are some things that you have learned in the process of making a podcast about all things addiction that you want to leave people with? Until we’re back sometime next year?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  34:02

Oh, let’s see. I would say one thing I’ve learned is just how open people will be with themselves if you can create a safe space. So it’s like pretty amazing to me. How many people write in and how many people call in and leave voicemails, but then also how many of those folks will come on camera with us and have their voices on tape?

Claire Jones

Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

And so I think that’s a true testament to the chance we have in this country to open up the opportunity to talk about addiction. But also, I think I’m just constantly learning about the resilience of the human spirit, the things that humans can survive, and the importance of the lens that you see things through. I think a lot of the feedback that we’ve gotten from this show is like looking at addiction through a hopeful, compassionate, empowering lens, is making a difference.

Claire Jones

Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

What about you, Claire?

Claire Jones

I think the biggest thing I’ve learned is just like a very different widespread compassion. And also, that, you know, no one’s addiction story is going to be the same. Like seeing people on an individual level. And at that individual level, approaching it with a lot of compassion.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Yep.

Claire Jones 

Those are probably the two biggest things.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

All right. Well, this is it until 2021. We are heading into pre-production for season two. So please continue to.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

I know, you know, I always think like, you know, you watch like a great show on TV. And then you’re like that show did not get picked up for season two. And then you’re all sad.

Claire Jones  36:01

Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison

So happy that Lemonada has picked us up for season two. So please continue to call in send emails, share the show with everyone you know, rate us five stars actually rate us what you really think and hopefully that’s five stars, give us glowing reviews. We are so grateful for all the support we received on season one. All of you who called in all of you who wrote in all of you who shared your stories with us, and we will be back in the spring for season two, adios!

CREDITS

IN RECOVERY is a Lemonada Media Original. This show is produced by Claire Jones and edited by Ivan Kuraev. Jackie Danziger is our supervising producer. Our theme was composed by Dan Molad with additional music by Ivan Kuraev. Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer are our executive producers. Rate us, review us, and say nice things. Follow us at @LemonadaMedia across all social platforms, or find me on Twitter at @naharissonmd. If you’ve learned from us, share the show with your others. Let’s help this destigmatize addiction together.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  37:25

And so I’m gonna hold out hope for you that yes, it will change. But as you have pointed out, alcohol.

Claire Jones  37:33

Wait Nzinga, wait.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  37:35

Is my mouth full? (laughs)

Claire Jones  37:42

I was like what’s a tactful way to be like “Yo can you swallow first?”

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  37:49

Our relationship does not require tact. You will be happy.