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Eliza Blank built the million dollar business, The Sill, by giving people what they wanted: plants, right at their doorsteps. No more schlepping to the local store, and no more wondering how to care for your new plant baby. She wanted plants to be accessible to all, not just the Martha Stewart followers of the world. She talks to X about busting her butt to make this happen, from launching her Kickstarter to hand-delivering plants in NYC to pitching venture capitalist funders. Whether you’re a female entrepreneur yourself or just desperately trying to keep your monstera alive, Eliza has advice for you.

This series was created in partnership with Flourish Ventures, an early-stage global investment firm backing mission-driven entrepreneurs and industry influencers working toward a fair financial system for all. Learn more at flourishventures.com.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Eliza Blank, X Mayo

X Mayo  01:49

Welcome back to The Dough. I’m your host, X Mayo. I hope you are staying happy, healthy and wealthy. If the third isn’t ringing true, don’t worry, baby. We got you because here at the dough, Money does grow on trees. Today, we’re talking about how to turn entrepreneurship into an empire, a plant empire. To be specific, I’m talking about sitting pretty on a throne with a flower crown, eating grapes while someone fans you with a Monstera de Lucille soli, yes, if you ever wondered, A, how to turn your wild and wonderful vision into a real business, or B, how to keep your house plant alive longer than a week. This is the show for you. Our guest this week is the plant Queen herself. She’s a visionary, okay? She saw a gap in the gardening market and said, Watch me grow. Eliza Blank founded the Sill in 2012 a business that ships house plants right to your door. They’ve got plants for your office, plants that are pet safe, and they’ll even ship a pomegranate tree to your house, baby, a whole damn tree. We love to see it all right, so let’s get going so you can learn how to plant your own money tree. Eliza, welcome to the show.

 

Eliza Blank  03:09

Hi, X, I’m so glad to be here. Thank you for having me today.

 

X Mayo  03:12

I’m so glad you are here, because before we get started, you know, when they told me that I was gonna have a plant expert on I was like, yes, because I need to know why are my monasteries dying on me. I sing to them, I wipe them, I rap to them. I, you know, cradle them in my bosom. What am I doing wrong? Please, and it’s not just for me. Eliza, the people, there is a whole plant talk where our monasteries are dying and we don’t know what to do, girl, we’re out here in the wild.

 

Eliza Blank  03:43

Honestly, the number one reason people’s plants die is from over care. I know, so usually what that translates to is you’re over like over watering is the easiest way to kill your plant. And and I do think people misunderstand how much water plants need, and there’s no special formula, because unfortunately, everyone’s environment is different. And of course, in nature, nature is very different. But certainly in nature, it doesn’t like rain every Tuesday a gallon. So plants are a lot more forgiving than I think we give them credit for. And most people end up killing their plants from over nurturing because they’re like, Oh, you’re not doing well. I’m gonna water you. I hate to say it, they kind of thrive on neglect.

 

X Mayo  04:34

Excuse me, Eliza said the plans are like, Girl, it’s not it’s not me, it’s you. X, it’s you. Okay, wow, what an icebreaker. I’m a bad mom.

 

Eliza Blank  04:45

We could get really specific. You could tell me what color the leaves are, what it’s doing. There’s all sorts of reasons why they might not be thriving, but I will say most people think plants are so super hard, and they’re actually not. We just have to, like, take a. Step back.

 

X Mayo  05:01

Oh, wow. Okay, well, let’s move on now that my feelings have been hurt and I’m officially the worst plant mom ever. Okay, so here at the dough Eliza, we usually start with asking guests where the hell their money went this week. But since you’re the plant queen, I want to ask, what is the most money you’ve ever spent on a plant? Like, are you like, plant crazy? Like, like, that lady from chip crazy, like, you out here getting, you know, what’s the plants that that move and eat shit?

 

Eliza Blank  05:28

Oh, a venus fly trap?

 

X Mayo  05:29

Yeah, you out here, like, in the jungle, like, on a black market up in Seattle, getting a venus fly trap for 2000 like, you know, what are you doing, Eliza?

 

Eliza Blank  05:39

Well, so I buy plants on a commercial level. So I often joke, like, if you knew how much money I spend on dirt, it would blow your mind. And when people tell me that they kill plants, I also remind them that I kill plants on a commercial level. Like, we’re a business at pretty decent scale. So like, some money gets spent, but personally, you know, I’m in it for the company discount obviously, like for the free plants. I don’t spend too much on plants because I don’t have to. But kidding aside, we have come across some amazing rare specimens that you know would tempt me to spend, you know, a lot of money on okay?

 

X Mayo  06:21

How much are they?

 

Eliza Blank  06:22

They can be 1000s of dollars. And people do buy them, and people will consider themselves lucky to even come across them, because some of the plants are rare, because they’re effectively genetic mutations, and so it’s not even something that you can just replicate easily.

 

X Mayo  06:37

Right, you gotta get a daisy and a snake plant make them have a marriage and make sure they consensually come together. And now you got a snake Daisy, a snazy.

 

Eliza Blank  06:47

That’s a snazy. Oh, you’ve got a hand at this. Yeah, I think you’re, I think you’re a horticulturalist in your prior life.

 

X Mayo  06:54

Listen the way the entertainment industry is going. Eliza, I might be on here on the black market selling these damn snazies. Okay, I mean, it’s real. Okay, let’s get into it because from one entrepreneur to another, I love to hear the inciting incident, like, How’d you start your business? Because I know you started it at 26 years old, queen, and that was in 2012 and just to remind our listeners, that was year we learned who Gossip Girl is, and Rihanna was still on Twitter. Oh, my God, Rihanna was a menace, and we stand but what was going on in your life at the time?

 

Eliza Blank  07:25

Great question, I know, I tell people, well, I started my business when I was 26 I am not 26 anymore. When I was 26 I had a job in marketing. I was actually working for living proof, which is a shampoo, conditioner, hair styling, yeah. It’s actually really great product. Just a little nod to them, and I was probably on year four of working for them. I started my career at a brand agency, and in fact, living proof was one of my clients. And so I went client side, as they say, to work on the marketing team there, and to be honest, I did not care much about hair. As it turns out, I did learn a lot, though, which I think is like, the most valuable thing as a young person in a new job is like, make sure you’re learning a lot. Because I had this idea for my company, The Sill and I didn’t know how to actually execute it. And after about four years of working out living proof, which in and of itself, was actually a startup that was incubated by a venture group, then I felt compelled to quit my job and start this business, because I actually understood a little bit about what went into running a business, and what went into raising money, or, you know, negotiating with a retailer or creating product or working with designers, you know, all of these things kind of go on behind the scenes. And I was lucky enough to work for a company that was early stage enough to give me access to all of those steps.

 

X Mayo  09:01

And so what made you want to start buying plants? Like, why go into, oh yeah, the plant business? Because, you know, some people will say it’d be more lucrative to, like, you know, be a waste trainer girl, you know, sell the damn flat tummy tea. Like, what is making money? And I’m not saying that that is in the smart business route to go to because it’s like, what’s trendy, but because people are always chasing that, what’s interesting to me is that you were like, I’m down with the dirt with a plant set. You know?

 

Eliza Blank  09:29

I mean, most people looked at me like I had two heads. This was not an obvious bet, especially at the time. Maybe now people understand it. I thought it was really interesting because it seemed to me, as some as a young person in New York that everything had been marketed, and even things that could be considered commodities, like soap, like I grew up where soap was a bar and it cost 25 cents, and then I moved to New York City, and I was like, whoa, there’s. Lots more soap than dial, or whatever it was.

 

X Mayo  10:04

Or leave a 2000 for all your 2000 parts.

 

Eliza Blank  10:07

Yeah right. And it smells nice, and it has nice packaging, and it looks beautiful. And all of a sudden I was so hyper aware of being a consumer. And at the time, I was moving into one of my very first apartments, and, you know, trying to decorate on a budget. And so somehow, house plants was the thing that I was decorating with, and I was having such a terrible experience. I didn’t know where to get them, I didn’t know what to put them in. And I was really kind of just turned off by how they were marketed, mostly in grocery stores, especially New York City, they didn’t have the beautiful containers. They didn’t have proper care instructions and like, what’s wrong with plants? Plants are cool, you know, they they clean the air that we breathe, and they’re sort of inherently good, if you think about it, but they kind of remind you of like the dentist’s office or like your grandma’s house. And so I felt really compelled to take the category and sort of like, judge it. And that was, that was it. That was the big idea. I wasn’t thinking, Oh, I’m going to be in this business for 12 years. Oh, I’m going to, you know, build it to this, you know, size or scale, or employees or stores. At the time, I was just thinking, this is a really good idea, and I can see myself putting time behind it.

 

X Mayo  11:24

And what was your target demographic?

 

Eliza Blank  11:26

Myself, of course, because we’re always as entrepreneurs, I think trying to solve our own problems. And you know, my mother is huge into gardening, huge into plants. I’d actually always wanted her to open a flower shop when she retired, which she never did, and somehow I did instead. So it had, it had been sort of in the realm of possibilities, only in that I grew up around plants, and I loved plants. You know, it was kind of one of those things that just stayed with me, because I had the idea when I was just 21 and I didn’t start the company until I was 26.

 

X Mayo  12:02

So you were able to make all this work at 26 years old, which is astounding to me. And I read that you started the business with 12k at 26 years old in 2012 was nuts.

 

Eliza Blank  12:14

Yeah, so we, well, I say we, I wasn’t even married back then, but I was with my husband at the time. And, you know, we had to, you know, adjust lifestyles to make sure that I could put some savings in. And then I did a Kickstarter, which was like, very, you know, of the moment in 2012 oh, yeah, and yeah. So the Kickstarter itself was, yeah, it was for $12,000 and, you know, between that and putting in what little savings a 26 year old has, like, a couple $1,000 like, that was it. And it was very basic in the beginning.

 

X Mayo  12:50

What was, what was in the bio for the for the Kickstarter? Because my thing that’s curious, like, because if I’m going on Kickstarter, somebody’s like, yes, I’ma start a plant business in 2012 I was like, okay, so she’s off her rocker. What is she talking about? So what? How did you appeal to your community to support and help you raise the 12,000?

 

Eliza Blank  13:09

Well, what’s crazy is, if you actually go back and look at the Kickstarter, it describes the exact business that the sill is today. It actually hasn’t changed at all. It was all about making plants accessible to people. And accessibility meant education. It meant convenience, the convenience of selling the plants with the planters and the potting soil and kind of everything under one roof. And it also meant elevating the design so that it was actually like attractive to put in your home and treated like an element of home decor, as opposed to some weird sort of like afterthought, and that was effectively the value proposition then, and it hasn’t changed. And so the part of the reason why I was able to start the business is because the idea resonated with people right away. If I hadn’t been able to achieve the Kickstarter goal, which, even in retrospect, was not that much money, I don’t think I would have actually started the business. I think that would have proven to me that it wasn’t viable. But I got really excited because I I was able to achieve it, and with very little but a lot of money, I was able to get the momentum I needed to kind of just keep going.

 

X Mayo  14:17

Yeah, and I think too, my mom loves plants. And when you said, it reminds you of, like your grandma’s house, um, like plants, but it’s like, I was raised around elders and moms and aunts who, like, just love them so much. And it was like, a big thing. And these were all like working class women that were medical assistants, that drove busses, you know, that were teachers that just loved plants. So it’s always, like, very nostalgic for me, and I love mine. But when I first got into looking into YouTube, the people with the biggest platforms were always white. So that’s interesting to me too, because you’re Filipino, that you were able to, kind of like, break through and break through that glass ceiling. And I feel like that probably, if it wasn’t a conscious, maybe a subconscious factor in your community supporting you with this Kickstarter, because it’s like, oh yes, finally, we see a POC, somebody else that’s talking about it and it, I feel more comfortable probably being ignorant of a lot of things, asking you Eliza rather than a white counterpart.

 

Eliza Blank  15:27

It’s really good point, because I think there was subtext from the beginning that, you know, the expert, and she kind of is still the expert, is Martha Stewart. And you know, not a lot of people live their life like Martha.

 

X Mayo  15:41

Right? I didn’t go to jail. I didn’t go to jail. Okay, okay. Eliza, so let everybody want to talk about Martha, and I know she, she got out, no Sports Illustrated. She eating, you know, meta croquettes with Snoop in Paris. But let’s be clear, yeah, there’s only, there’s only one convicted felon at that table. God bless you. Okay, that Eliza, I’m sorry.

 

Eliza Blank  16:06

I love that. Yeah, that’s a good one. Yeah, she was not going to be the one to, like, teach me about plants. I was, like, killing plants left and right, and she’s, like, off pruning her rose garden, being sort of like the epitome of perfection. And I think there just needed to be a real dialog, just like what we had at the beginning of, like, what am I doing wrong? Martha is all about what you’re doing to do it right. We were from the beginning as a brand actually, like, had a really good sense of humor and were very forgiving of, like, yeah, you’re gonna kill plants, yeah, you’re gonna over water plants. And like, that’s okay. Like, we’re all here to learn. We’re all here to have fun. That is something that I’ve always really enjoyed about the positioning of our brand and our education, is that it’s very approachable, and you do not have to be anyone. You don’t have to be a expert gardener. And like, we’re literally going to teach you how to water your plants. It’s kind of like a No Dumb Questions philosophy.

 

X Mayo  17:17

Another thing that I wanted to talk about, because I would love to hear like, who were these Die Hard plant heads that you were delivering plants to in New York City? Because to me, it’s like, you want a plant delivered Okay, so you bougie. But also it could be like somebody who I wouldn’t even think of there in this specific economic class that wants a plant delivered to them. Because you used to you was piling plants and delivering them in New York City, and baby, I lived there for eight years. God bless you. You had to go through the fire, the flood and the rats.

 

Eliza Blank  17:47

If you ordered a plant from my website in 2012 13 or 14, it probably meant I was coming to knock on your door and hand it to you like that’s how the business worked. One, I love plants because they are effectively classless, like everyone has that’s true around New York City, from river to River. It doesn’t matter what neighborhood you’re in, everyone has plants, the people who are ordering. I mean, the truth is, is that everything gets delivered in New York so it, yes, it’s a little bougie. But like also, everybody delivers everything. And so the delivery components, yeah, yeah. You know, we were, we were delivering for someone who just wanted to plant for their own home decor. We were delivering gifts. We were delivering condolence, you know, gifts. We were delivering to offices. A lot of offices in the beginning, in fact, you know, because, again, there were not a ton of resources, so the delivery was just my vehicle for getting the plans to people. It wasn’t so much that it was a deliberate choice in business model. People, I just couldn’t afford a store, and people didn’t know where to go, so they were ordering online, knowing that delivery was just available. It just was the way of the city.

 

X Mayo  19:03

That’s true. I mean, yeah, I got Chinese food delivered, Thai food delivered. And I was fucking hopping trades at the time, you know, like just hustling. So, yeah, that is it. Is it is a part of the culture there. But it’s nice to know that, like, everybody was able to get one, and now they have this amazing new business that didn’t exist through Eliza, which is dope, and I think it’s really impressive too, which you were able to accomplish, but also you didn’t pay yourself a salary for the first five years. Oh, yeah, that’s Eliza. Is that true? Is that a Snapple fact?

 

Eliza Blank  19:37

Yeah, that’s a Snapple fact.

 

X Mayo  19:38

Okay, so how did you survive?

 

Eliza Blank  19:41

I had a stipend, is what I would call it. So, you know, I was able to put, like, my phone on the business, my unlimited metro card on the business, things like that. But no, I wasn’t really paying myself. I had some savings. My Husband at the time we became domestic partners so I could go on his health insurance. That was an interesting conversation to have when you’re 26 to be like, hey, boyfriend, let’s do this thing. It doesn’t have to be permanent. But, I mean, I was lucky because we were living together, so he was able to cover rent. And, and, you know, you kind of just figure out a way to make it work. And I had the right people around me cheering me on and buying me lunch.

 

X Mayo  20:31

Community, that’s what we say all the time. Here at The Dough, community is the greatest currency. I want to get into the VC of it all, because, honey, you raised $2.5 million in VC money, five years into your business. Okay, unheard of, okay, they’re giving this to this Filipino woman who’s out here hustling, selling plants like, Excuse me. So I would like to know if you could tell the people. But really, this is for me. What are the right things and wrong things to say to venture capitalists.

 

Eliza Blank  21:01

Here’s the truth, the way to raise money is first and foremost to understand how venture capital works. And I actually think people don’t take the time to learn the venture capital business model. It’s critically important to you, as someone who may want to take their money to know how they make money, because it’s directly tied to their interest in you and the relationship you’re going to have, and the pressure and outcome that you’re expected to have. Because the way most venture capitalists work is they’re expecting a 10x return on their portfolio of investments, and they’re willing to bet on all of these companies, knowing that 90% of them are gonna go to zero, but one will have some crazy return that will return the whole the whole fund.

 

X Mayo  21:51

Oh, that’s so good to hear.

 

Eliza Blank  21:53

That’s like the broad strokes. That’s like the broad strokes, okay, but what that means for you as someone who is talking to a venture capitalist and asking them for their money is you need to convince them that you’re going to be the one that has an outsized return that lets every other company in their portfolio bottom out. And that is a tall tale to support, to say like, Yeah, I’m going to be a billion dollar business, and say that with all the conviction in the world, and it was exciting. I mean, that’s the best way I can put it. It was scary. It was exciting. It was a lot of things, especially as a 26 year old who looks like me, but you know, not all VCs are are evil. And there were plenty of them who wanted to take a meeting with me and have a good conversation, and I think I developed a good reputation over time in that community. But it was an uphill battle with my own ego.

 

X Mayo  22:53

Oh, what did that look like?

 

Eliza Blank  22:55

A lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of like, can I say this?

 

X Mayo  23:00

I you know, what’s so crazy to me is that there be people out here. Who is that white girl that could never do her hair? She had red lipstick on her teeth? More black turtleneck? Elizabeth Holmes, yes. Liz, that she just gets to show up like that lipstick on her teeth and be like, yeah, I think this thing gonna work. It’s gonna work. Who we tested it on? No, nobody, and get millions and millions of dollars, but yet, Eliza has this business that she started hustling through all of New York City, got a bacon egg and cheese in one hand and a snake plant in the other, literally, and you doing all of that, and yet you still feel like, I don’t know if I can.

 

Eliza Blank  23:37

See, yeah, I had so much more to show for it, and I could be pounding on the table. And I watched competitors who looked like how you’re supposed to look, get the checks. Get the checks. Yeah, and, you know, every single dollar, I will say this, I had great investors, many of whom invest in, you know, a lot of women and people of color, and yet, every single dollar I fought for all the way through, all the way through, from my first raise, all the way through.

 

X Mayo  24:09

I know from one entrepreneur to another that it’s not easy. There are setbacks that happen. There’s things that come you up and you’re just like, I don’t know if I can make it. You know, you may have just like, one or two employees, but that feels like, oh my god, their whole livelihood. It’s contingent upon me. And you know, Eliza might have said she don’t fuck with dogs on Twitter, and she like, Now, what if they find that tweet, I’m gonna get canceled. They know I don’t like dogs, and they know I like plants, so now I’m gonna get my business going under. I got two people, you know, it’s hard. So was there ever a moment that you were like, Whoa, I don’t know if this is gonna be able to work. And then you have to work, and then you have to figure out how to push through that.

 

Eliza Blank  24:43

I mean, every single day, right? And I’m not even kidding, I’m not even kidding. Every day you’d go through these super high highs and low lows. And you know, the problems can come at you from any different direction. It can be a customer, it can be an employee, it can be someone who’s never even laid eyes on you, who’s never even spent $1 with your business, but has an opinion and a microphone. You know, I think that’s one of the harder things about running a business today, is just the visibility and the access people have. I remember when I finally put my actually, my personal Instagram as private, it was like, wait, what? Why didn’t I do this before? Why was I letting anyone with a yellow leaf come at me on my own Instagram? You know, like, I’m just posting pictures of my kids leave me alone. So, you know, there’s so many, there’s, I mean, we lived through COVID we’ve lived through economic downturns. We’ve lived through supply chain issues. Like, I don’t sometimes I don’t know.

 

X Mayo  25:44

We lived through Trump, yeah, exactly, honey.

 

Eliza Blank  25:47

I mean, how are we all here? Really? Like, let’s all just take a nap.

 

X Mayo  25:51

No, we’re not here. We’re this is all a simulation. We’re in an episode of Black Mirror. Eliza, I’m not here. You’re not here. This is not a microphone.

 

Eliza Blank  25:58

Yeah.

 

X Mayo  25:59

So, Eliza, you know, businesses, they pop up, they close. Unfortunately, a lot of my faves, they make it through the pandemic. So when did you know with your business that it was like, okay, you know what? This is something that not only I can do long term, but this is gonna last long term.

 

Eliza Blank  26:14

In order to last, you have to be comfortable with change. And that was what I learned really early on. I actually had a co founder for like, six months, and it did not work out. And that was my very first lesson. That was, if I’m going to keep going, I need to know things are going to go wrong. I need to be able to whatever pivot change, evolve, just get really comfortable with being uncomfortable all the time. And that is the lasting power. It’s like, if I show up every day, the business will keep going, right? That’s actually all it comes down to. You know, the business might look a lot different, but sustainability is really up to me. So, you know, COVID was, in some ways, I like try not to even, you know, remember the depths of problem solving in COVID. But yeah, I think once we came out of that, that’s when I realized, okay, I’m equipped to make tough decisions. Yeah, I’m able to do that without it conflicting with my personal value set, and if I can do that, then there’s always a way, as long as there’s a will, right? There’s a will, there’s a way, as long as I want to keep doing this, it has legs.

 

X Mayo  28:51

I would love to in my last question. Unfortunately, even though now we’re best seasoned, we’re gonna hang out and you’re gonna help me save my monastery. Do you have advice for women who want to turn their hobby into a business? Don’t do it. I already know don’t do it.

 

Eliza Blank  29:51

Oh. I mean, I still have that conversation with myself every day.

 

X Mayo  29:56

Oh, and Eliza, I quit every morning, exactly.

 

Eliza Blank  30:00

Yeah, I will just say, you know, knowledge is power. Educate yourself. There are so many good books you don’t have to read them, cover to cover, but understand the different business models, the different resources. Contact the government, figure out what, you know, grants you can get, or, you know, even The Sill in our very beginning, we were eligible, and took an $80,000 loan that was critical to our success. And, you know, it just took one person saying, Hey, have you heard about this loan for underprivileged, you know, neighborhoods? And that was what kind of, you know, got us from one year to the next. So ask a lot of questions, meet a lot of people. Read a lot of books. I definitely want to see more women doing this, exactly this, because we’re quite good at it. Like, not a surprise, but, you know, maybe a reminder is like, we’re very equipped for this exact thing, entrepreneurship, and so the only thing that’s standing in our way is feeling like we don’t know how, but, you know, we don’t know how to do anything, including taking care of a plant. We all have to learn.

 

X Mayo  31:05

Wow, that felt personal. Eliza felt like a shot at me. Fine. It’s fine, Eliza, it’s okay.

 

Eliza Blank  31:14

We all have room for improvement.

 

X Mayo  31:15

Eliza said no plant should be allowed in X’s presence. I’m a helicopter plant, mom and you’re doing too much, but that’s reflective of my personality. My name’s X, and I am extra okay, where can everyone follow you? On socials, Eliza?

 

Eliza Blank  31:33

Well, you should all be following The Sill, which is @thesill, on Instagram and on Twitter, if you’re into that, or I guess it’s called X, unfortunately, just go to thesill.com There’s so much good information there. You can read and learn all about plants. You can shop for things. You can buy anything from a Monstera to an apple tree. Just feed your soul.

 

X Mayo  31:59

Oh, my God, Eliza, you are amazing and wonderful. And the realty is, I’m  looking at your your office. There are no plans. She said.

 

Eliza Blank  32:08

No, it’s because they’re all in front of me. If I turn my screen around.

 

X Mayo  32:13

Eliza said, I can’t bring the business home. This is my office.

 

Eliza Blank  32:19

There’s one.

 

X Mayo  32:20

Okay yeah, yes. You know that gag would be if you had all plastic plants. You’re like, hey, no work here. I’m not doing all that labor. Right To hell with you, yes. Eliza, it has been amazing talking to you from one Leo to another. I just want to say roar. Okay.

 

Eliza Blank  32:38

Oh yeah, thank you. Roar right back at you.

 

X Mayo  32:40

Okay, y’all, you just got some business one on one from the plant Queen herself. Bet on your community. Figure out which loans you’re eligible for and get on your partner’s insurance. If you can, your idea is worth it. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I gotta go download an audiobook on how to be less of a helicopter parent. Okay, because I’m extra but I like having my Monstera alive. Listen, I’m trying to breathe cleaner air in my house. Okay, we are fixing climate change one snazy at a time.  The Dough is a Lemonada original. I’m your host X Mayo. This series was created in partnership with Flourish Ventures. This series is presented by the Margaret Casey Foundation. Our producers are Tiffany Bui, and Dani Matias. Kristen Lepore is our senior producer. Mix and Sound Design by Bobby Woody. Original Music by Pat Mesiti Miller. Jackie Danziger is our Vice President of narrative content. Executive Producers include me X Mayo, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. You can follow me on IG  @80dollarsandasuitcase and Lemonada @lemonadamedia across all social platforms, follow The Dough wherever you get your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership, thanks so much for listening. See you next week, bye.