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Jane Marie is an MLM’s worst nightmare. She has made a career out of exposing the inner workings of MLMs as a Peabody Award–winning journalist. She’s the host of the podcast, The Dream, and author of Selling The Dream. X and Jane talk about how MLMs work, who they target and how MLMs recruit. X even gets candid about her own experiences with MLMs, and Jane answers the age-old question: why do MLMs love Jesus?

This series was created in partnership with Flourish Ventures, an early-stage global investment firm backing mission-driven entrepreneurs and industry influencers working toward a fair finance system for all. Learn more at flourishventures.com.

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You can find Jane Marie on Instagram @seejanemarie. Her book Selling The Dream is available now at all major book retailers. https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Selling-the-Dream/Jane-Marie/9781982155773. The Dream is available wherever you get your podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dream/id1435743296.

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To follow along with a transcript, go to lemonadamedia.com/show/ shortly after the air date.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

X Mayo, Speaker 4, Speaker 5, Speaker 3, Jane Marie, Speaker 1

Speaker 1  00:56

Have you ever been recruited for an MLM?

 

X Mayo  01:33

I have gotten the hagerly dm on Facebook from a person I went to high school with. It was the legging one.

 

Speaker 3  01:39

Oh, hell yeah, my best friend’s family owns one. I can’t say what one, but fine. I have a lot of products from it, because, you know, I get it for free, even though I’m anti MLM.

 

Speaker 4  01:54

Ooh, can we cuss?.

 

Speaker 1  01:55

Yeah.

 

Speaker 4  01:56

Yeah, fuck yeah. I ordered the package. They made me spend like, 250 bucks and like, it’s a full time job, they just make it seem like you can make all of this money in this short amount of time. And that’s not true.

 

Speaker 5  02:08

My sister’s fallen for, like all of them, and luckily, I watched her fail at everything, so I didn’t do that. They’re really good at making it sound great, but hardly anyone makes money.

 

X Mayo  02:23

Welcome back to The Dough. I’m X Mayo, and I’m so excited to be back with y’all for another episode here at the dough. We talk about how to make the money, keep the money, and scale the money. All you gotta do, baby is listen to my sales pitch. Okay no really hey, don’t change the channel, listen really, if you give me $100 okay, I can make you $1,200 in just a week. Okay, listen, closely, listen, I’ve been doing this long enough to know that if you are smart with your money, you’re listening to The Dough. That tells me everything I need to know. Okay, so I’m trusting you with this opportunity, and I know you won’t fumble the bag. So let’s be fr, okay, we all want to make enough to cover the bills. Get our mama something fancy, especially if she my mama, because she’s really Lord Justin, she want a crude attack. She don’t even know what it is. She just heard it, okay, and I still need to have a nice piece of change on the side. So if you just follow me to my trunk in this alley, okay, next to this zombie, I can show you what I got, okay, guys, stay with me now. This may look like your everyday BB cream, but bitch, two things, okay. One, this shits made out of goat’s milk. How do I get a goat? Not your business. And two, if you sell a box of these babies, that shit will get you a new pair of shoes. Okay, they will be new. I don’t know how good they look, but they’ll be new. Okay now, like I said before, if you give me 100 to pay for this box, you’ll make 10 times that in just one week, I know. And then next week you come back and you buy another box and make that money all over again. Doesn’t that work? Yes, isn’t that simple? I know that’s right. Whoa, wait, hold up, what you do? Wait, why are you calling the authorities? See, why y’all gotta do that to black women? I’m just trying to have my business. Just trying to have my business. Okay alright, okay, if you ain’t got a clue about what we’re talking about today, then let me help you out. We’re taking a trip into get rich quick schemes. No, I’m not talking about your homegirl selling Aliexpress lip gloss. Okay? We’re talking about multi level marketing, better yet known as MLMs, okay, the kind of companies that’s got your favorite Auntie slanging eyeshadows and detox teas out the backseat. And here’s the catch, she’s required to buy the products before she even gets a commission, and the hope is she actually sells them to get the money. MLMs are so common that we all know someone who was working. For one by the end of 2020, more than 125 million people around the world were involved in this multi billion dollar industry, and these organizations are pretty secretive about what their salespeople are making. So we did our research here at The Dough, and let me tell you, the stats paint an awful picture. A recent study says that barely a quarter of the people who got recruited ever saw a dime. And if you think that’s bad, the FTC reported an even more dire situation back in 2011 it said less than 1% of the people involved in MLMs actually make money. So here to talk to us today is the arch nemesis of the MLM industry and a vigilante in the fight against pyramid schemes, Jane Marie. Jane is a Peabody and Emmy award winning journalist, a former producer of This American Life love that pot and the host of the investigative podcast The Dream. She’s even got a book out now called Selling The Dream, which is a super deep dive into all things. MLM. Hi, Jane, welcome to The Dough.

 

Jane Marie  06:03

Hi, X nice to meet you and talk to you.

 

X Mayo  06:06

So nice to meet you. Okay, so first of all, like scamming docs are my fave. Okay. LuLaRoe, we’re gonna get into it. Okay. What was it? Oh, my God, that kitty cats on those fucking leggings and made of just Mosh and foolishness, things that a chemist wouldn’t even touch. It was ridiculous, hideous. Oh, my God, hideous stuff. I’m so hideous stuff. So we start every episode asking guests, where the hell their money went this week. But I have a special question for you, okay, what have you bought recently that wasn’t worth the money?

 

Jane Marie  06:41

Oh, this is dumb, but I’m moving, and I paid people to take the crappy floor out of my house. And then once they took the crappy floor out of my house, they didn’t want to just polish the floors underneath like I wanted. So then I had to hire a different person to do that. And so I paid double basically, just to get someone to stay on my floors.

 

X Mayo  07:04

I think that’s worth the money, double the money.

 

Jane Marie  07:08

Double the money, I don’t know.

 

X Mayo  07:10

No, I thought they were gonna do it. They were just like […]

 

Jane Marie  07:13

No, you need to put all new floors. And I was like, I’m not that fancy. I don’t need all new floors. I just want you to shine them up a little bit. We don’t do that, so then I had to pay another crew to come in. And it was just like, twice amount of money. Anyway, amount of money, that’s a that is a rich people problem, and I’m not one of those. I don’t make money. I’m in podcasting you know, I have a funny thing. I think people, I think people should know that this is, I have a very successful podcast, and it doesn’t make money. So, you know I’m right there with the rest of everybody who’s not making money right now in media.

 

X Mayo  07:14

No, absolutely, we’re going to get into that a little bit later. But before we get started, can you define what an MLM is? How do they work? Are they legal?

 

Jane Marie  07:54

So I’ll go with how do they work first, and then we’ll get into the very tricky question of, are they legal? Because I don’t think so, but okay, we’ll get there. So how do they work? So in an MLM, there is a purported product or service being sold, and they say it’s can be sold to anyone, anywhere, except for in stores and not online and all of that stuff. It has to be from person to person. And the business structure goes like this. There’s the person who starts the company, they’re at the tippy top. And then, let’s say you have one person who owns the company, and then they have five people underneath them who are like the big time sellers, right? And then they each recruit five people under them, who are each supposed to recruit five people under them who are each supposed to recruit endlessly, teams and teams and teams. And as you do that, your teams become enormous, like people who are, you know, the first generation of recruits in an MLM. Let’s say, like 10 years old, have 30,000 people underneath them at this point. And the way the money gets made is if, when you sign up for an MLM, there’s an entrance fee that usually comes with a bit of product. And at the low end, they’ll say, oh, it’s only $99 to sign up. But then your upline invariably says, that’s the cheap way in, and you can do that. But if you want to be successful, you’ll go for the 499 package, and you do that, and then you try to sell the stuff for a few months, and you try to recruit people, but you live in a rural area and you don’t know a lot of people, or you’re not very good at the Internet or whatever, and you can’t really find a market for this, let’s say mascara that’s supposedly better than anything you can get at CVS or the mall or Sephora that grows your lashes, grows your lashes, and it’s wildly overpriced, but that’s because we don’t put ads on TV, and we’re not we’re not spending our money there. We’re spending on, you know, the amazing product formulations and all this bullshit. So there’s so that starts happening. You realize you can sell it, you realize there’s no one to sell to. There’s no one to recruit, and you quit. Luckily for them, there’s another person right behind you who wants to try the scheme, and they sign up, and they spend 499 and they spend a month or two, and then they quit, and then the next person signs up, and that is the definition of a pyramid scheme, which I think I see very little difference between a scheme where all of the money is coming from people inside the organization, you know, the calls coming from the basement. Why they’re still legal is because it’s incredibly difficult to prove that a company has no outside sales, you would really have to it just takes a ton of resources, a ton of research, a lot of people, knocking on doors, making phone calls. And the only agency that’s tasked with figuring out if an MLM is operating, quote, unquote, legally or as a pyramid scheme, is the FTC, and they’re tiny, and they don’t have a lot of money, and they’re in charge of all fraud in the United States. So you know, when you have phishing and spam and credit card fraud and insurance fraud and identity theft and just you name it, you know, I mean, there’s a million frauds going on in this country. And our one agency that’s tasked with regulating that just doesn’t, can’t, just can’t, simply can’t so.

 

X Mayo  11:30

It’s one of the biggest frauds is healthcare.

 

Jane Marie  11:32

Yes, exactly and they have to deal with that stuff. They have to deal with healthcare fraud all the time, the same organization.

 

X Mayo  11:38

Pharmaceuticals, all of that. Yeah, okay so are, the question is, are they legal? I think can get kind of smudgy.

 

Jane Marie  11:45

Well, I would say it’s like, it’s like, if you are okay, let’s say you’re a murderer, but no one caught you, like you’re not in jail so.

 

X Mayo  11:56

That’s so funny, Jane, it seems like you’re like, so if a murderer kills someone in and no one hears it. Did someone die?

 

Jane Marie  12:03

Did someone die? That’s right, that’s what the MLM say. They actually use the idea of a pyramid scheme to justify their existence. They say, Well, if we were pyramid schemes, we would be closed down. And that’s like saying, well, I if I was a murderer, I would be in jail. And we all know murderers are who aren’t in jail. Jane, I’m not gonna say there’s a couple that have been in the news lately.

 

X Mayo  12:29

Wait, we all know personally.

 

Jane Marie  12:32

No, I’m just saying I know of.

 

X Mayo  12:34

Oh, I love it Jane’s like we all know murder X, come on, you got the friend that’s late. You got the friend who’s bougie got the friend who kills people.

 

Jane Marie  12:44

If they’re any good at it, they’re not in jail, just like you’re.

 

X Mayo  12:47

Yeah, truly your best job. Yeah listen, the bar is on the floor. Give me if a man’s employed, the women are taking it. It’s bad out here. Girl, I think they’re not ethical at all.

 

Jane Marie  12:58

No.

 

X Mayo  12:58

Like, definitely no ethics hasas any room.

 

Jane Marie  13:02

No.

 

X Mayo  13:03

Okay, so let’s talk about Jane Marie before she started reporting on MLM. Okay, so tell me about your first experience with one.

 

Jane Marie  13:11

I don’t remember an experience without one, to be honest. I mean, it’s my earliest memories have are very wrapped up in multi level marketing.

 

X Mayo  13:20

What’s the first one that you can like think of that you experienced.

 

Jane Marie  13:23

Playing Avon lady with my grandma’s order sheets. My great grandma was an Avon lady, and, like being three, four years old, with my aunt, who was like 10, trying to entertain her three or four year old. And we had all of her samples. And we had like, old, you know, out of date catalogs and order sheets, and we had an old rotary phone that wasn’t hooked up to anything, and we would make like a desk and treat it like a real business I mean, I think we would have been incredible Avon ladies at that age, we were so enthusiastic about checking with our customers, the dogs in the house, or the cats, you know, would be our customers, and putting makeup on each other.

 

X Mayo  14:02

Avon, you don’t get the pink Cadillac right, because that’s with my grandma, Mary Kay, okay, copy that. That was very intriguing to me. Pink is still my favorite color.

 

Jane Marie  14:11

It’s beautiful.

 

X Mayo  14:12

So how did you discover that this was an MLM, the Avon?

 

Jane Marie  14:18

I didn’t know probably until early adulthood that well, okay, I almost got roped into a couple when I was, like, in my late teens. I grew up outside of saying, Flint, Michigan, where there’s, I don’t know if everybody knows this, not a lot of jobs going around.

 

X Mayo  14:35

And also not a lot of water. It’s bad there.

 

Jane Marie  14:39

You can’t even get water, you know, let alone a job. So a lot of people in the community I grew up and do MLMs, um, because they’re desperate, you know, and they’re prom the promise is that you can make money this way. Um, when I became an adult, I started to realize, like, I’m from Michigan, like the home of Amway, like the home of Brownie Wise, who started the Tupperware party. Like we love multi level marketing in Michigan, I know one person who makes money, one with a Christian bag company called 31 Gifts. She makes $45,000 a year, and she works her ass off. So that’s like the best you can do. You would think at the, you know, heart of the heartland for MLMs, that I would know someone who was wealthy, and no, there’s no one. So that I caught on to you pretty quickly in adulthood.

 

X Mayo  15:31

So your great grandmother, Maxine, you dedicated your book to who you speak, who you just spoke about. She was the Avon lady, right? Okay, and you talk about grandma Maxine story in selling the dream. So, did she ever make any money as an Avon lady?

 

Jane Marie  15:45

No, nothing.

 

X Mayo  15:47

Did she ever leave Avon? Or was she like riding for her gang, till she died?

 

Jane Marie  15:51

Till she got sick, you know, she stayed with it through my through my teens. I think she was still a member, and she started, I think, in the 60s. So it was a long run there that she was, and then, you know, she recruited other people in the family. So my aunt, you know, became an Avon lady, and just carried on the torch of giving us all the free samples for our Christmas stockings. Again, there’s just not, there’s not a huge market for skin so soft outside of your aunt.

 

X Mayo  16:24

Listen, that eats down. SSS, my mom had it in the turquoise top.

 

Jane Marie  16:31

Love, I can smell it right now.

 

X Mayo  16:34

Yes.

 

X Mayo  16:35

Okay, yeah, it’s about that time now. When we get back, we’re talking to Jane about Becky with the good mascara and why MLMs love Jesus. We’ll be right back.

 

X Mayo  19:20

Okay, so let’s talk about Becky, and not to be confused with who Beyonce was referring to. Okay, so you had an elementary school friend that you gave the pseudonym Becky in your book, and you hadn’t seen her in years, until one day you reconnected on that damn Facebook, on the guy damn Facebook, they just remind you about everything that I want to forget. So what happened after you accepted that friend request, or she accepted yours.

 

Jane Marie  19:43

So we had been friends on Facebook for a while, and she was in a relationship with another friend of mine from childhood, and was not on the MLM tip like, you know, early aughts or late aughts, when I joined Facebook and then kind of lost touch for a while, and then I got a message from her about a sale that she was having on mascara for a Christian MLM called unique and.

 

X Mayo  20:11

So this is Christian mascara. This is gonna help Jesus.

 

Jane Marie  20:14

Yes, Jesus endorses this mascara, yes.

 

X Mayo  20:18

You know what? This is like, a new age communion, right? We used to drink the wine and have the bread, but now mascara, we do it for the blood of Jesus.

 

X Mayo  20:26

Mascara.

 

X Mayo  20:26

Okay, it’s majestic mascara.mascara.

 

Jane Marie  20:28

Plumping, yes, yeah, for Jesus so she sent me a message about that, and then I, like, clicked on her profile, because I was like, this seems weird. And this was probably, oh God, 15 years ago, right? So I don’t we were not at the anti MLM hey hun stage yet, like we were not making fun of these people yet on the internet, but it was very much a hey, hun. What are you up to? You look great. I know you would love this mascara kind of thing. And then I looked at her profile, and she was like, all Christian and really into these MLMs. I I’ve asked her to talk to me for the book and and the podcast, and she has not accepted my invitation.

 

X Mayo  21:07

So wait, Jane, why do MLMs love Jesus? Because even with the twin flames, you said you saw that doctor, of course I did.

 

Jane Marie  21:14

Yes.

 

X Mayo  21:14

He went to a very like God Jesus level.

 

Jane Marie  21:17

In Michigan, by the way me, they’re also from Michigan.

 

X Mayo  21:20

In Michigan, we have to that’s the MLM state. Yeah, Motor City, it’s MLM city.

 

Jane Marie  21:29

MLM city.

 

X Mayo  21:29

Honey, why do they love Jesus?

 

Jane Marie  21:32

They love Jesus.

 

X Mayo  21:33

Well, I don’t really love them, because I love them, but they don’t. They don’t love them like he love.

 

Jane Marie  21:37

They love Jesus like Trump loves Jesus. You know, correct the prosperity gospel stuff, I think that the founders all really  love JESUS because they’re sort of, you know, especially the ones in Michigan are Calvinists and Mormons have this same kind of philosophy that wealth is a sign from God that you are on the right path towards salvation or toward heaven or whatever. So from the standpoint of the people running these companies, Jesus is on their side through the amount of money they’re seeing come in from the scam that they’re running.

 

X Mayo  22:07

Well, it’s like, well, what are you how are you following the bible? Are you just reading it all? Damn day. Because Jesus was a carpenter, he still went to work. And also, with the Jesus angle, if you have the person above you, that’s reinforcing that with this MLM, you’re thinking that you’re not failing yourself, you’re failing God so I have to keep going. And if you’ve been like ingrained with that belief, I could see you keep going forever and ever, just because this MLM has you thinking someday, right? They dangling that carrot, one day you can be just like me. But okay, so in your book selling the dream, you mentioned that women make up 74% of the MLM workforce, and that the overwhelming majority of MLM companies, they sell things that are traditionally known as women’s products, right? We just talked about, you briefly touched on like, you know, Christian women who don’t have agency, they don’t have like, because you need. They always talk about like, you have home life, work life, you need. The third thing some people have, like, church village, where they work out and stuff like that. These women don’t have any of that. It’s just their housewives, and that’s it. But so you touched on that. But why do you think it is? Like, why are 70% of women doing MLMs, and why are so many of these products known as women’s products? Like, why are they targeting us?

 

Jane Marie  23:18

I think it goes back to targeting any population that has fewer economic opportunities or accountability, right. It’s a lot of retirees that are women. It’s a lot, and also the products are all so many of them are aspirational, which just ties into our misogynist, patriarchic culture. Their diet products, their beauty products, their fashion, their jewelry, their package femininity, most of the marketplace, if you look on the internet anyway, it’s same thing as like, the Kardashians products, right? But like, get hotter, be prettier, all of this stuff and skinnier, and get all your friends to do the same. I think it also is a part of the other reason it’s women is because we have really deep social connections with other women. The structure of a recruitment based business is recruiting people. And most of these companies outwardly say this, recruit those nearest and dearest to you first. So you recruit your sisters, your mom, your neighbor lady, your babysitter, etc, etc. In my hometown recently, my stepmother, I have small sisters who are in school still, and my stepmom has gotten so many pitches like in their take home homework packets for MLMs like, come to the school this weekend we’re doing a like a fair, and it’s all MLM stuff at this fair, and it goes home with the girls homework to their moms, like, addressed to their moms.

 

X Mayo  24:52

Wait a minute. You are they’re giving MLM.

 

Jane Marie  24:57

Yeah.

 

X Mayo  24:58

This, this world I, Jane, I really think you’re doing a bit like, Are you this sketch show? Everybody is in an MLM. I feel like I can’t go to McDonald’s. They say, you know, if I give you one fry and you go home and get a person half of that fry, that person will bring you back too. Like, it’s crazy.

 

Jane Marie  25:17

Yeah.

 

X Mayo  25:18

I know we love our aunties. Little stocking stuff is around Christmas time and every other time of the year. But maybe, just maybe, they are not worth it, and we probably should let Auntie know. Go ahead, go on tell her. And in the meantime, we’ll play some ads.

 

X Mayo  27:44

Well, let’s get into some more of your book Selling The Dream, because you mentioned that MLMs, they play mind games right with the people who get invested, it’s like giving them titles and awards, right? Like they have all these banquets. You know, everybody claps, they get on a stage, right? So how hard is it for someone to get out or recover financially from investing in these organizations?

 

Jane Marie  28:14

It is so hard. Like, what if you bought a house sneaking money off of someone else, usually your husband or your parents or something, and then that house just was like the money pit. It just everything about it was wrong, and you had to fix everything. And now you’re out twice the amount of money you put in. And now and then you have to tell all your friends and family who you’ve also recruited to buying into this shitty subdivision that you got suckered and that you suckered them. I have never read a thing about an MLM adjusting its formula, packaging, sales tactics, you know, anything like that. Remember when LuLaRoe was crashing and they were having like, moldy, stinky leggings because they didn’t put them in a warehouse. They left them out in the rain, and then they shipped them to people, and then ridiculous Mark stood them the the CEO deanne’s husband, went on some live and was like yelling at people, and he’s like, they’re not stale leggings. If you can’t sell them, you’re stale.

 

X Mayo  29:18

It’s like, I slapped the shit out of you. First of all, you not trying to sit here and tell me some stinky shit that you left with this little cat print, and not a cat looked like a werewolf because it didn’t washed off all of the features of it with the rain, and it smells like shit.

 

Jane Marie  29:35

It’s your problem, you can’t sell it. It’s you, you’re out of here.

 

X Mayo  29:39

Oh my god, okay, Jane, what are the regulations, if any, when it comes to these MLMs?

 

Jane Marie  29:44

Well, there are plenty of regulations that could shut down any MLM if there was time and enough resources to go after them. So, for example, false product claims, those are everywhere in MLMs and during covid, a ton of MLMs got warning letters from the FTC, but it’s just warning letter, you know, it’s not a it’s not a criminal case, or like a lawsuit. Criminal cases happen when someone dies. But short of that, they get a letter saying, don’t tell people that your essential oil cures covid. And then the company goes, Oh, ouch, slap on the wrist. Okay, we won’t do that. And then they just do it in some other way, on a different product. And then they it’s just, you know, so that’s plainly illegal, and people have died because of these false product claims, and some of those companies have been shut down, but they’re few and far between. So that’s one way that the regulars could go after them. The other is proving that they’re a pyramid scheme, which, when the FTC gets its, you know, act together. When they get enough evidence, when they focus, they usually win a pyramid scheme case. They’re good at arguing that something’s a pyramid scheme. That’s what happened to Herbalife. They didn’t say you’re they said you’re not, not a pyramid scheme. And then they had to change their business model, so yeah.

 

X Mayo  30:56

Who should we be putting the political pressure on when it comes to getting tighter regulations. Michigan, I got it. We need to put the political pressure on fucking Michigan, because they’re out here just ML, you come straight out the puss. They got an MLM for you.

 

Jane Marie  31:14

They got one for you. Yep, um, I think the political pressure goes to, you know, actually to the top, to Congress and to our executive office that can fortify the FTC, and it’s so wild that we have this one tiny organization that polices all internet all telecom fraud, all mail fraud, all identity theft and MLMs. I would also probably go after the lobbies a little bit, but I don’t think we’re gonna get anywhere with those paths. I think the real only way for this particular industry is just to keep talking about it and to tell the real story and get rid of the shame around it, although, and, this is the real bummer of the whole thing. The people who start MLMs will just start something else. They’ll just run for president.

 

X Mayo  32:03

I know because the guy that Yeah, they’ll run for president, they all do storm of capital, no, they all do they fucking love it. It’s weird. There’s a chemical imbalance. The ego is insane, but the twin flames, yeah, he’s still rocking and rolling, and he’s like, I reject anything. But when you talked about, like, uh, the person that, uh, is trying to recover financially from these MLMs. I thought about the sister in twin flames, and it’s like, that’s your blood sister. And it’s just like, you know how that affects, um, your dynamic as sisters, your relationship, and she’s so sad, but the other sisters, like, I’m too triggered, like I was so young, and as much as I know you were a victim, like you said, you were still a perpetrator. You know, same with the Mother God, when they let that bitch turn blue, I said, everybody jail, electric chair. Okay so now […]

 

Jane Marie  32:52

Colloidal Silver is a very popular MLM product, by the way.

 

X Mayo  32:56

Okay, Jane, get the fuck off. It’s because it’s Colloidal Silver.

 

Jane Marie  32:59

Yeah, that drinkable.

 

X Mayo  33:00

What is it used for?

 

Jane Marie  33:02

Nothing. I mean, you know, it shouldn’t be. It used to be, like in the dark ages, like during the plague, uh, seen as an antibacterial, antimicrobial product that you could put like on.

 

X Mayo  33:14

Yeah, but it was back then.

 

Jane Marie  33:15

Yeah, it was back then. We have science now. We’re not still diagnosing people’s humors or whatever. No, things are different, but yeah, a lot of these companies, the ones that do, like wellness products and stuff, really benefit from, you know, the distrust of Big Pharma, the distrust of the, you know, medical and pharmaceutical industrial complexes and all of that, which is something we could fix. You know, yeah, we could fix our system. But, yeah, that Colloidal Silver stuff is like. People love it.

 

X Mayo  33:47

People listen. If you haven’t seen Love has won the cult of Mother God, please watch it and then DM me your thoughts immediately. Okay, so now, when I ask some advice for our listeners, how do I recognize that MLM on my social media feed?

 

Jane Marie  34:05

So there’s a thing in MLM. It’s called dripping, where you try to form a relationship with someone kind of slightly mentioning this product you’re selling, or, you know, this event you’re going to but you don’t try to recruit them right away. You try to ingratiate yourself to them for a while, and then.

 

X Mayo  34:22

Oh my god, somebody dripped on me. Jane.

 

Jane Marie  34:24

Who tell me?

 

X Mayo  34:26

I had a friend who, oh my God, someone. Oh my god, you someone dripped on me that bitch.

 

Jane Marie  34:36

What happened?

 

X Mayo  34:37

Don’t talk to her.

 

Jane Marie  34:38

Okay.

 

X Mayo  34:39

Okay, so I’m sorry. I just, I’m having an aha moment, because I didn’t know that that was a thing. So a friend of mine was like, come to me to this thing. And you know, I was driving her around. She couldn’t drive at the time. She knows how to drive, but she didn’t have a car. And she was like, X, come on me to this thing. And it was kind of like vague. I think she first said, like, oh, let’s go to dinner and this and this and that. And I think she tried to, like, do it under the umbrella of, like, entertainment. This was like, back in like, 2011 2012 before I moved to New York, and I’ve always been performing and doing entertainment. Then we’re pull up to an area in LA that’s very industrial, and I know shit doesn’t go down over here. Where the fuck are we going? So I’m asking all these questions, Jane, and asking, asking and asking, and she’s just like, so she said my full name. She was like, so just chill like, it’s nothing. I’m just like, where are we going and what are we doing girl? And so then I felt bad, but I was just like, I know I can fucking leave. I can get out soon as I walk in, everybody out on the same navy blue suit, red tie. And just like, This person just made $6,000 and this first person. I thought I was in a sketch. I could not believe my eyes. And they were like, yes, and so she’s, like, looking at me laughing, because I said, what the fuck are we doing? I’m getting the fuck out of here. And she was just like, no, X she’s trying to, like laugh. And so she didn’t say X, she said my full name. She was like, so she no, just sit out. And they were doing their whole spill. I said, this is some bullshit, and you’re an idiot, yeah so I go to leave, and this one person, this woman who was like, over everything, she was just like, sitting there, like, she the damn Godfather, and the way that I entered, you cannot exit. So they have it set up on purpose, where jet, I gotta go talk to the godmother. So I go to the godmother, and she’s just like, No, you should join. You should, I said, no, I get my money how I get it which is, I go to work or I will sell a TV show. Like, lady, you’re not hitting it here. She had two men on the side of her like she was motherfucking Farrakhan Jane. They were sitting right there, and they were just like, No, you need to do I said, I’m not joining. And where’s the ex? They look like I was finna shake the table. I said, I will rock this whole world. And I got out, but that’s crazy.

 

Jane Marie  36:42

You were raised right to know, to trust your gut. This is the other thing I think we need to be doing right? I have a daughter who’s 10. I tell her, kick them in the nuts before you even are sure if something’s going wrong. Like you can apologize later. You can’t apologize once you’re in the van, you know, like you can […]

 

X Mayo  37:00

That’s it, it’s over.

 

Jane Marie  37:03

It’s over, when you’re in the van, it’s done. You go to the second location. It’s done, you attack, draw blood, you kick him in the nuts. If your instincts were off, you apologize, and you’ll be fine. And you tell the judge, my instincts were off. I just was real triggered. I thought this guy was being a creep. So I think acting on that instinct is something that we don’t teach, especially little girls to do. And I was taught to do it. I was taught to run. And you might I remember specifically my parents being like, we want to find your head here, not in the lake, down wherever, down the river you die, where you die? Yeah, you know.

 

X Mayo  37:40

And I was still young. I was 23 at the time, but I just knew I’ve always been a little Bossy Pants.

 

Jane Marie  37:45

In your gut, yeah.

 

X Mayo  37:50

And even though I was mad that I already went in there, but I was like, surely, I’m gonna get out. These people have to leave there’s cars parked here. Okay, so sorry, we went out.

 

Jane Marie  37:57

People will be embarrassed to do that. You know, people would be, and that’s the thing that how chicks.

 

X Mayo  38:03

Because I believe in me so much, and I knew, I didn’t think that I’d be where I’m at right now, but I definitely knew you’re gonna be a success based on the work that you do. That’s just all that I know. Okay, so somebody could drip on you and they get to know you right on social media, okay? And then what happens?

 

Jane Marie  38:21

And then, you know, some line comes up. There’s a really fun Reddit community called anti MLM, and these are what get posted almost every day is like the moment that like screen grabs of the moment on Instagram or the moment in Facebook, or the moment or via text where you go, oh, you’re trying to recruit me. There’ll be some line, like, I want to share this opportunity with you. Like, I you know, you might start using a product where they give you a free sample, and then the next time you talk to them, they’re like, so how did you like that candle I gave you? Oh, it smells really good, doesn’t it? It’s my most popular product. Wouldn’t you like to sell this candle that you really like? I think you’d be great at you’re such a good talker. You’re such a good talker. It feels like you’re naturally have a great social circle. You have all these resources people around you that you could sell to. Don’t you want to share this amazing candle with them?

 

X Mayo  39:13

Shut up.

 

Jane Marie  39:14

Yeah, and you, shut up. But you, but it’s, again, we’re not the majority of of people, you know, I’m that way, I will say.

 

X Mayo  39:23

Or the majority of Michigan, especially scared to land in Michigan. I feel like they won’t even let me get a damn luggage card. They were like, well, if you sell this luggage card, you too can get two other people under you, and then you can have a luggage I’m like, get shut up. Okay, so, and for our aunties who are wrapped up in selling these MLM products, right? How do you have the talk with them? I would love for us to.

 

Jane Marie  39:45

Honestly, yeah, okay, no, literally, like, and I’ve had people ask me this question all the time. I’m like, set on the podcast, set on the book, and they’re like, I can’t do that. Well, they don’t have any problem coming in your DMS trying to sell you a diet shake. That’s rude.

 

X Mayo  39:57

Right.

 

Jane Marie  39:58

Like, it’s not rudeness on some audiobook, you know, like a gift, a real gift.

 

X Mayo  40:03

Speaking of, Jane, where can we find your book?

 

Jane Marie  40:06

Um, anywhere that books are sold and there’s an audio book, which I’m really excited about, because it’s almost like an extra, an extra season of the dream, because I’m reading it.

 

X Mayo  40:15

Where can we find you on socials, Jane?

 

Jane Marie  40:17

I am @seejanemarie so S, E, E, Jane Marie, on all the socials, all of them.

 

X Mayo  40:24

Thank you so much for joining us. Jane, all right, so y’all heard it here. MLMs are everything, everywhere, all at once. They in your churches, your jobs, and even in your kids’ schools. And in the age of social media, they’re harder to avoid than ever before. So word from the wise, if an old high school classmate you haven’t seen in 20 gazillion years invites you to some random essential oil party block that ass. Okay, I don’t care if there’s a damn zoom link, you ain’t gotta go, period. These people are targeting everyone from women to Christians and everything in between. So watch out for your grandma’s aunties and apparently, your kids, because the chances of an MLM having a hand in their pockets is pretty high. Okay, so look out for each other, and I’m gonna let y’all go in a minute. I just wanna take us to church for a final time. Okay, this pastor X coming through, so I want you to turn to your neighbor. Unless you’re driving, look ahead. Your neighbor’s in front of you, okay? And say neighbor, okay, don’t get dripped on. Oh, thank you. Now go in peace. What I say unto one, I say unto all, watch fast and pray in Jesus name, no MLMs, ah, God bless you. There’s more of The Dough with Lemonada Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content, like more of my conversation with jaymarie. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts.

 

CREDITS  41:55

The Dough is a Lemonada original. I’m your host X Mayo. This series was created in partnership with Flourish Ventures. This series is presented by the Margaret Casey Foundation. Our producers are Claire Jones, Rachel Pilgrim and Tony Williams. Kristen Lepore is our senior producer. Mix and Sound Design by Bobby Woody. Original Music by Pat Mesiti-Miller. Jackie Danziger is our Vice President of narrative content. Executive Producers include me X Mayo, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. You can follow me on IG  @80dollarsandasuitcase and Lemonada @lemonadamedia across all social platforms, follow The Dough wherever you get your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership, thanks so much for listening. See you next week, bye.