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On this episode of Wiser Than Me, Julia sits down with 70-year-old comedy icon – and star of Beetlejuice and Schitt’s Creek – Catherine O’Hara. Catherine and Julia share their improv origin stories and reminisce about the freedom and experimentation of their early comedy careers. They also swap stories about visiting the Vatican, over-apologizing, and how they both find laughter incredibly sexy. Plus, Judith, Julia’s 90-year-old mom, tries very hard to tell a joke.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Catherine O’Hara, Mommy

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  00:01

So in my career, I’ve done mostly comedy, and my fondest memories are working with other actors to perfect a bit to like mine, a moment for the most comedy possible. Honestly, I don’t think about kudos or awards or reviews or paychecks or anything like that, and it’s actually it’s not even the laughs, it’s rehearsing to get the laughs. There’s a scene in a Veep episode, for example, when I’m telling Tony Hale, who plays Gary, that the President is resigning. So my character, Selena Meyer, the Veep, is going to become president. And we’re in a bathroom, a dingy bathroom, and in the scene, we’re kind of laughing and crying, and then he gets a bloody nose, and oh, my God, we worked on that scene forever. It was exhausting, but over and over and over, looking for like little things we could bring to the scene. You know, like things that I sort of, in fact, pull out of a bag within the scene, I’m pulling stuff out of a bag, and when I watch it now, that’s what I remember, the work, the joyful teamwork that Tony and I did in rehearsal and while shooting. You know, not the laughs, per se but when you don’t get the laughs, oh my goodness, you certainly do remember that when I was just getting started, I was part of the practical theater company in Chicago, and our show, which was called the practical theater company’s golden 50th anniversary Jubilee, was which was a joke, of course, because the company was new, hadn’t been around very long. It was a giant hit. And I’d never been in a giant hit before, and it was incredibly exciting. We were the toasts of the town. The show was selling out, and the laughs We were getting were incredible. It was the culmination of a huge amount of work and joy exactly what I was just talking about. So the producers of SNL came to see the show, and they loved it, and they hired all of us to come to New York and be a part of SNL Saturday Night Live. Of course, we go to New York, and the SNL producers really wanted the current cast and writers to see what they had seen in Chicago, so they rented this very cool off Broadway house, and they brought in a big, enthusiastic audience, and they had us recreate the whole hit show. Oh, wait a minute. Sorry, no, they didn’t do that at all. Uh, they had us four complete and total unknowns perform the first act of the show. Oh, my God, in the SNL office under fluorescent lights in the middle of the day in front of 20 very cynical, unfriendly SNL cast members and writers who already hated us because a bunch of their best friends had just been fired to Make room for us. Okay, we never had a chance. Sketches that had killed in Chicago died a terrible, terrible death that day. It was excruciating, and that’s when I learned what a flop sweat really is. I mean, I can feel it now as I’m recounting this, and I think that humiliation influenced our whole SNL experience for the next couple of years. To tell you the truth. I mean, if I could do it all over again, well, I can’t do it all over again, can I? I mean, you live, you learn, and whatever, I’ve learned a lot since that cringy day in a carpeted office on the 17th floor of 30 rock but one of the most enduring lessons that I have learned on wiser than me is that there are so many ways to move forward, confidently and positively, even in the face of great challenges. And it reminds me of one of my favorite improv lessons, yes, and that is the great Viola spolins First rule of improv, you always say yes. And in an improv so like, for example, if somebody comes into a scene and says, Hi, I’m an astronaut, you don’t say no, you’re not an astronaut. You say yes, and I’m so looking forward to hearing your astronaut poetry tonight or whatever. Yes, and that is so applicable to life off the stage as well as on it. You know, really honestly, all of life is really a great big improv in the end. You know, relationships and work situations and, I mean, it’s all about collaborating and paying attention and accepting what others bring to the party and building on that, and, of course, making big choices. It’s just a great thing. And paradoxically, another great thing I’ve learned from the women on this show is that no is a complete sentence. Weird, how that too is, in the end, a positive, empowering kind of truth, two sides of a wiser than me coin. And I have to say, speaking of wiser than me, I really, really want you to know how happy I am to have you nice audience people listening to and enjoying these conversations saying yes and to our show. I’m so grateful. I really am so thank you, dear listeners and yes and right back at you for real. How apropos then that today we are talking to the inestimable improv queen Catherine O’Hara.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  06:14

Hey, I’m Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. There’s nothing like improvisation. I love it. In my experience, the best improvisers are pretty much always the best listeners. That’s the key to any great performance, comedy or drama listening. Our guest today is one of the finest listeners in the business, and to me, that means one of the finest actors. Catherine O’Hara and I share similar origin stories. She started on stage at Second City Toronto. I started on stage at Second City Chicago, although it was a touring company, she went on to second city TV. I went on to SNL. She’s been with her husband 36 years. I’ve been married 37 and we both have two perfect boys. We’ve known each other for decades through mutual friends, but we’ve never actually gotten to work together. God damn it, and I vow to change that. Catherine’s TV career took off alongside fellow SCTV comedy legends, John Candy, Eugene Levy, Joe Flaherty Andrea Martin, Dave Thomas and Harold Ramis. This was pretty much the exact same time that SNL was exploding here in the States. SCTV, frankly, was always sort of the cool Canadian stepsister to Saturday Night Live. It was weirder. It was deeper, hipper, for sure, more daring. And for me, the heart of the show was always Catherine O’Hara she’s not just funny, she’s fearless, and that’s an absolute joy to watch. She followed up SCTV, working on tons of TV shows, often with her SCTV pals, and even dabbled in fancy director land with Marty Scorsese and after hours, and then came home alone, and just like that, she was the blockbuster mom, which I re watched last night. By the way, it holds up completely. And then Christopher Guest started to make his improvised movies, starting with waiting for Guffman and Best in Show, and she’s basically stolen every scene in every one of them, and I haven’t even mentioned her Emmy award winning turn on shits Creek. And I’m not going to go through every credit and every award, because, holy crap, Catherine O’Hara likes to work, but you get the idea she’s unbelievably funny. Truth is, if you’re watching something and Catherine O’Hara comes onto the screen. You just know that every time she’s going to score, every time, fellow SCTV alum Marty short said, of Catherine, she is one of the most loyal, wise human beings I’ve ever known, which, of course, makes her perfect for our little podcast here. I couldn’t be more excited to welcome to the show and actor, mother, comedy legend, and woman who is truly wiser than me, the exquisite Catherine O’Hara Hi, Catherine.

 

Catherine O’Hara  09:31

Oh my Lord, Julia, that’s too much. Thank you too much.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:35

Oh, it’s not too much. It’s over now, right? Yeah, it’s over. That’s the end of the podcast. Catherine, thank you. Thank you so much for joining.

 

Catherine O’Hara  09:42

I love that. I loved hearing all those nice things.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:44

Yeah.

 

Catherine O’Hara  09:45

Okay, bye.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:46

Yeah, they’re true. So are you comfortable if I ask your real age.

 

Catherine O’Hara  09:52

If you tell yours.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:53

Yeah, I will.

 

Catherine O’Hara  09:54

I’m 70.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:55

I’m 63 oh, you baby.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  09:58

I know. I’m just a we thing. Thing you are.

 

Catherine O’Hara  10:01

A dear little thing.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  10:02

And how old do you feel? Really? How old do you feel?

 

Catherine O’Hara  10:07

I don’t know. Well, I feel what I am. I don’t know who knows what anything’s supposed to feel like.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  10:14

Yeah, I know. But when you hit 70, which is a big marker, did you think like, wow, this isn’t what I thought 70 feels like. And the only reason I said that is because that was true for me. When I hit the markers, even starting with 30 hours, remember, like 30, it sounded so adult. And I was like, Oh, I don’t feel like that, you know?

 

Catherine O’Hara  10:33

Well, that’s I’m saying you never really feel like you like you’ve been told you’re supposed to feel, or the way you imagine others feel.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  10:40

Yeah, right.

 

Catherine O’Hara  10:42

I feel, I don’t want to say young, but I don’t feel old.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  10:46

Oh, that’s a good answer that, yeah, I feel the same. I feel the same.

 

Catherine O’Hara  10:50

Yeah why? I just feel like I’m, well, I’m lucky to be alive, for sure, yeah, and I don’t know, I don’t know what it’s supposed to feel like.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  11:00

What do you think is the best part about being your age, though, is there a best part?

 

Catherine O’Hara  11:06

Oh, boy, being alive, and I don’t think of my age, except sometimes I’ll be around a bunch of younger people, you know, working. Sometimes you’re working, in my case, at work, and you’re often the oldest person on set. Yeah, and I don’t even think of the age, but if I did, I would say, Oh, we’re all the same age, even though we’re not, yeah, but we’re all human beings relating. We’re all, you know, on a set. We’re all working on a show. We’re all, you know, serving the story and having fun and, you know, working together. And then I go in sometimes I think, wow, at best, maybe they look at me as like some adorable old lady. I’m saying at best.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  11:47

No, I know at best. But it’s funny that you say that, because as you were saying, I’m thinking, Well, yeah, it makes sense, because, particularly in our business, you’re on set with other actors. You’re playing. It’s playful, God willing. It’s a playful environment, right? And so sort of age drops off in that environment, yes, but I’ve had the same experience of being on set and the web. What the fuck like I just did this Marvel movie. And, well, first of all, I don’t know any of the references anybody’s making to the Marvel Universe number one. But also, like culturally and everybody is my my children’s age, like almost everyone on set. Wow, yeah, that is funky town. This doesn’t have to do with anything at all, but we both both have it doesn’t it’s not really even appropriate for this podcast. But who cares? We both have Pope stories because I heard you got in trouble. Yes, I heard you that you got in trouble at the Vatican and you got yelled at by a priest. Can you talk about that? What happened? What did you do? Etc. What happened?

 

Catherine O’Hara  12:55

This is so it’s so stupid to even tell that, but I will anyway. I met my husband, Beau Welch. He was a production designer on the first Beetlejuice movie, yes. And Tim Burton basically made him ask me out. And because I was grousing to Tim that this guy was talking to me every day, and they were asking me out. And so Tim said, let me see what I could do. He did talk to him, and Beau begrudgingly asked me out, uh huh. And now we’re still married, uh huh, thank goodness. But Tim also gave us an amazing wedding gift, which was a private tour at the Vatican. Oh, oh, it’s a wedding gift.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  13:29

Yeah, only Tim Burton would give a present like that. That’s amazing.

 

Catherine O’Hara  13:33

Somebody had given him the gift, and he’d been blown away, so he passed it on, which is really wonderful and generous. So this lovely priest or Cardinal took us all around the Vatican, and he was wild. He took us everywhere, including, I swear, the Pope’s closet. He took us on the elevator that the Pope takes down to the St Peter’s Basilica to his dead mass. He took us in this beautiful, little museum, private museum full of in glass cases, all the gifts given to the Vatican from all over the world. Wow, crowns and jeweled, I don’t know, whatever. And he let us open the case and take out crowns and pretend to be putting them in my husband’s backpack. And we’re laughing, but when we were where we thought was the Pope’s closet that another priest came by. It’s it’s our guide that got yelled at, not us, actually, although we are part of it for sure, because we’re all in there laughing. Got it? Um, yeah, not a big closet. It was a small closet.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  14:32

Well, it’s just probably the same thing over and over again, isn’t it?

 

Catherine O’Hara  14:36

Yeah, it’s not that much. What happens is the clothes he used to wear.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  14:41

What’s your Pope’s story? Yeah, my Pope’s story is that I get an email from Stephen Colbert that says the pope wants to meet a bunch of people in comedy. Are you available to go? So the first thing I do is I text Stephen, because I think maybe this is like he’s been hacked or something. Yeah, for real. And he said, No, no, that. Didn’t ask for money, though, no, he didn’t ask for money, but that could have been in the second email. So I was being careful. Anyway, it’s true. Long story short, bunch of us end up at the Vatican meeting with the Pope who wanted to have a make a speech about the importance of laughter and comedy and the spirituality of that. And, you know, which is very, very, very nice. I was totally flabbergasted at the pomp of it and the, yeah, I mean, it feels very, and I don’t mean this as disrespectfully as it might sound, but it feels very wizard of Ozzy, you know what I mean with well, you know, with the guys, and they’ve got, they’ve got their costumes that these, what are they called, The Swiss guard come walking in with the stripes and the feathers on top of their head, yeah? And you expect them to sing, oh, we, oh, yo. You know, you know you’re grading on a pope curve. This pope is a is a good guy? Yeah, yeah, he is. But I highlight grading on a pope curve.

 

Catherine O’Hara  16:06

I knew that event happened, and I was very jealous.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  16:09

You should have been there. It’s silly that you weren’t.

 

Catherine O’Hara  16:12

Yeah. Come on, I’m Catholic.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  16:13

I know.

 

Catherine O’Hara  16:16

Did you get to speak with him?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  16:17

I shook his hand. Wait,

 

Catherine O’Hara  16:19

You have a picture?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  16:20

Oh, shit. Where did I put that fucking picture? Anyway? Whatever. I shook his hand and I said, God bless you. And he said, God bless you too. That’s great. So that was nice. And then, but the real kicker was David Sedaris. Was there? Do you know David Sedaris?

 

Catherine O’Hara  16:37

Yeah, okay, I don’t know him personally, but of course, I know him yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  16:39

Okay, so we’re talking afterwards, and David says that he’s gonna go to the Pope store. There’s that store in in Rome that sells all the pope clothing. And actually, I was gonna go there too, because you can get, like, good red Pope socks and stuff. And I said, okay, I’m gonna go with you. And we ended up going to that store together, and he bought all of these robes, all of these, like priestly robes with the red sashes and all the rest of it, because, you know, well, he likes to dress in costume a lot, and he said he thought he would wear this to do his work. I’m amazed that that is available. Yeah I’m amazed.

 

Catherine O’Hara  17:19

Yeah, what’s that called appropriation?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  17:22

Yes, he wrote about it in The New Yorker, and I’ll send you the story, because he wrote a whole story about going to the Pope. It’s very good, excellent, but there’s a joke at the top of it that I totally credit him with. It’s not my joke, but it’s incredible. And it goes like this, two priests were driving a car together down a highway, and they get pulled over by a cop, and the cop comes up to the window, says, roll down your window. And he says, we’re looking for two child molesters. And the priests look at each other, and they look back at him, and they go, we’ll do it.

 

Catherine O’Hara  17:59

No.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:01

I’m sorry.

 

Catherine O’Hara  18:01

I know myself.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:03

I know bless yourself. I’m sorry. I’m telling you this good Catholic girl, apologies.

 

Catherine O’Hara  18:10

No, don’t apologize. A good joke is a good joke.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:13

A good joke is a good joke. Yes, speaking of Catholicism, I read your first role was playing the Virgin Mary in a nativity place.

 

Catherine O’Hara  18:21

That’s really sad.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:24

It’s a starring part.

 

Catherine O’Hara  18:26

No, it wasn’t a thing at the park up the street from our house.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:31

Yeah well, we have to all start somewhere. We what were they gonna do? Put you on on stage, on Broadway at however old you were. I mean, how did you do you remember it.

 

Catherine O’Hara  18:42

All I remember because my mom would bring it up every once in a while. Was that I lost her lovely blue house coat.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:49

Oh, your mom let you give it to the costume department, and you lost it.

 

Catherine O’Hara  18:53

Bbaby blue yeah. Say, isn’t that? Isn’t that a cute, hilarious story.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  18:58

It’s hilarious, sad. But you know what this reminds me of? When what was I watching that you were doing? Oh, it was waiting for Guffman, and you and Fred were doing a scene, and you did something so brilliant, where you were mouthing his lines. Do you remember that? And it reminded me of watching kids in a school play.

 

Catherine O’Hara  19:24

Oh, yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  19:26

Because there’s always somebody who knows the entire thing backwards and forwards. And in fact, I remember once we went to some play at school in my son Henry’s class, I think, and one kid on stage, when he didn’t have a line, he would turn and start to talk to his friends who were watching in the audience. No, yeah, he had no sense of keeping the thing going. If he didn’t have a line, he didn’t need to worry about the show. Isn’t that incredible?

 

Catherine O’Hara  19:57

You’ve worked with people like that, haven’t I actually have. I’m not talking. There’s nothing going on, right? There’s nothing worth seeing completely.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:07

Talk about not listening. I love that. That’s really good. Yeah, it’s funny. Much more with Catherine O’Hara after this quick little break, don’t go anywhere.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:33

I know you were long term friends with incredible Gilda Radner, yeah, and you met her when you were young because she was dating your brother, which is, yeah, that’s right, extraordinary, yeah, by the way, I had when I was growing up, I had a picture of her on the bulletin board of my teenage bedroom, just as an FYI.

 

Catherine O’Hara  20:52

Did you?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:53

I did.

 

Catherine O’Hara  20:54

Ah, did you ever get to meet her?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:57

No.

 

Catherine O’Hara  20:58

Oh, sorry.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  20:59

I know what did being close to her teach you?

 

Catherine O’Hara  21:04

Well, now that I think of it, I think she was just a great example of doing her work and being so lovely and talented and hilarious, and also being just a lovely person, just being a kind like, there was no yeah, that it was, it was two different worlds, but it was also just one beautiful person that she was. It was just, she was consistent, consistent, like she was just herself on stage, even though she took a ton of characters and totally herself. I’m not explaining it, right?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  21:43

What are you doing? Are you like? Are you asking chat? GBT.

 

Catherine O’Hara  21:47

Where? No for help? No.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  21:52

Because you looked away like you’re going on to like a computer to look at. Something nice to say about Gilda rabner.

 

Catherine O’Hara  21:59

Great nice thoughts on Gilda.

 

Catherine O’Hara  22:02

Oh, wait, I had these memorized. I thought, No. And then when I got in Second City, I got in because she left, I was under to her and rosemary Radcliffe, the other woman in the cast at the time, yeah, and Gilda went on to do National Lampoon, uh, which led to her during Saturday Night Live. Um, no, I so I only knew her for that period, but I really could honestly say I wouldn’t know anything about our improv or comedy. I don’t think without watching her or have all the opportunities, no, without knowing her at all, I just really imitated her. When I understudied her, all I did was try to imitate her. Before I could develop my own characters. You know, I got out of high school. I shouldn’t even admit this. I didn’t go to college, unless you call Second City University of comedy. Why can’t you I’m going to forever, yeah, to my kids. Anyway, yeah, no, I got out of high school and and she was in our lives. And then she went and did Second City, and I followed her there and got to understudy. Or I wouldn’t have known about any of it. I wouldn’t, I didn’t, you know, this is pre Internet, and I’m so glad I got to have this experience pre internet. Yeah, and to be that blindly optimistic about thinking, hey, why not just try this? Like there’s no one else in the world except these few people in Toronto who are trying to do this. So why can’t I try it too?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  23:29

That’s kind of incredible. So you didn’t have any feeling of well, I mean, of course, if you’re trying something, it could fail miserably, but you have to be willing to take that risk, and then you and if it does, then you do it again and you try something else, and hopefully it doesn’t fail, right? But how great, but how great to be able to fail. You have to be able to fail to not have strangers watching and commenting. Oh yes, that’s the internet.

 

Catherine O’Hara  23:56

I feel bad for people starting out now, because it just takes away your ability to take risks, to take try things.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  24:06

Yes, your sense of confidence, your sense of abandon

 

Catherine O’Hara  24:11

And to have and when you’re starting out, to have to lock into something so quickly instead of trying, you know 1000 different things. Why not you know, you can’t, I don’t think you can have that same experimentation if you’re sending it out to the world.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  24:27

So you felt that experimentation doing Sex and City, you found, felt that abandon there for sure, right?

 

Catherine O’Hara  24:33

Oh, I don’t, I didn’t even think about it. That was the way it was, that’s, that’s, isn’t that way it was when you got in.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  24:41

But I was, well, wait a minute. Let me be clear, I was in the touring company, so we were only doing other people’s material, right, right? It was obviously very male centric. But everything is, it seems, yeah, and we can get into that. But there were, it was not a particularly the. My group was not a particularly happy group of people, and there were a lot of drugs and there was a lot of drinking, wow.

 

Catherine O’Hara  25:08

And what year was that? When you got in?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  25:11

80, 81, in that area, however, I had the experience that you’re talking about doing theater with another theater group, practical theater group, which is in Chicago, and that was my husband’s theater group, then boyfriend, or not even, actually, anyway, whatever, and so. But I had that feeling of like, Wait, this might be funny. Let’s try this. Let’s see if that and yeah, it was like a playful thing without inhibition, which is a really like a gift, the gift of all gifts, right?

 

Catherine O’Hara  25:47

Isn’t it the best? And what a great age. I’ve often thought of this, what a great age to be in an ensemble. Because you, you know in your early 20s.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  25:56

Yes.

 

Catherine O’Hara  25:57

It’s great age to be at because you look at the world, you just think you know more than everyone else. And you look at the world and you say, if I had that power, I would do that better. If I had that job, I would do that better. I, you know, I just, you just have a great, natural cockiness at that age, and you’re oblivious, really. That’s why, and that’s what I would miss for people about the internet, that you could be oblivious and just think, I’m gonna try this. Why not me?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  26:26

And it’s such a good point.

 

Catherine O’Hara  26:27

And it cocky felt that way. Yeah, that cockiness at that age. But you’re not really, you don’t really have it together, so you surround yourself, if you’re lucky, with really good, talented people who are all kind of at the same stage, right, like, nervy, cocky, but with talent. So you’re, you’re lifting each other up, you know, and challenging each other. But so it’s a great mix of great confidence and, oh, my god, take care of me. Oh, I’m following you, you know, give me something to work with here.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  26:58

Yeah, it’s great confidence, and it’s a team sport.

 

Catherine O’Hara  27:01

Yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  27:02

Hey, Catherine, do you remember any of the improv games you used to play back then?

 

Catherine O’Hara  27:06

There was one Joe Flaherty had us, do remember when I first got in the cast, or maybe I was still understood about to hang out with all of them at rehearsal, and Joe had us play game where you had to do, had to imitate a stand up comic at the time, but you had to do it instantly, like improvise, improvise a stand up act. But you didn’t have to have the jokes. You just had to have the rhythm of the jokes. So I don’t know if they would give us a name, but they would definitely give us a topic. And at the time, there was this comic Tody fields who would be on top shows. Yeah, you don’t remember?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  27:39

Okay, no, I do I remember because I have made my family play this at the cottage. Everybody was so good at it. Oh, my Lord, they were all so good at I was not particularly good at but I do remember what I did. What did you do? I tried to do Tony fields, but I said, I met a fellow, and I asked him if we could go out. I said, How about you go out Friday? Said, No, I’m busy. I said, How about you go out Saturday, No, I’m busy. How about you go out with me? Sunday, No, I’m busy. I couldn’t get a date. It’s like no joke, the rhythm of a joke.

 

Catherine O’Hara  28:09

Sorry, I didn’t even do it, right.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  28:11

No, you did. It’s perfect. This is such a good game. This is such a good game.

 

Catherine O’Hara  28:16

We gave my nephew roller skating, and George Carlin, and he used the mic so beautifully about swish. What’s it feel like? Where are you going? You know, all like my sister. Her name was scabies, scabies, lice or something. She was like, you know, a heady kind of comic, you know, with her notepad, just kind of what’s on my mind right now. Going to be really easy about it. This is new comedy.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  28:50

I don’t know. It’s sort of like Stephen right? Remember Stephen Wright?

 

Catherine O’Hara  28:54

Yes. Love him still quote.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  28:58

It’s a big world. I wouldn’t want to paint it right.

 

Catherine O’Hara  29:02

Open 24 hours. I doctor. The door was closed. I docked some more guy came. The door says, 24 hours, not in a row.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  29:11

Do you still? Sorry? I’m gonna ask you a question, please. Yes, sure. Do you still draw on everything you learned at Second City?

 

Catherine O’Hara  29:24

Oh, maybe not. Maybe more your other company.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  29:26

Practical Theater Company.

 

Catherine O’Hara  29:27

Yeah. Maybe, yeah. Do you feel like you draw still on what you learned there?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  29:32

Yeah, I draw on that and I draw, but it’s not one specific place. I mean, there’s a lot to be said for experience, and I draw on all of it, you know, for real. I mean, I draw on being live on SNL, performing live, that schedule, which was grueling, you would go in on a Monday, you’d meet whoever is hosting, and then Monday and Tuesday, writers, actors. After writers would stay up all night. It was a very sort of drug driven schedule. It was sort of, and it’s still like that. I don’t mean, I don’t mean to suggest they’re doing drugs, but it was sort of driven by late night partying. But at any rate, everybody’s staying up late, writing sketches, writing sketches. And then Wednesday, you would have a table read in which you would read all the sketches. And then after the table read, the producers would decide what’s going in the show, and then you would rehearse that Thursday, Friday, and then Saturday, you’re live. And so what was the schedule for you guys at SCTV?

 

Catherine O’Hara  30:31

We would start writing, I guess, I don’t know, months before shooting, we would just sort of continue writing and shooting all along, like I’ve heard at SNL. You know, if a scene doesn’t make it into the show, it’s more than it’s dead than not. It’s, yeah, it’s dead. Totally crazy. We would rework stuff and over and over. We never gave up on a good idea that we thought was a good idea. Wow, no, it was a whole different we never had an audience, so we were just trying to make each other laugh. Yeah? Was way 1000 times more relaxed. Yeah, yeah, that’s we had no sense of anybody watching the show until, you know, years later, people would come and talk to us about it. You know, my dad thought I was just making a big mistake. And, you know.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  31:21

Oh, he did. Why?

 

Catherine O’Hara  31:22

What did he say? Because he was nervous. You know, he’s nervous for me, for all of us, is seven kids, nervous for all of us about what we’re going to do with our lives. And I said I wanted to be act and and it didn’t, I don’t think made sense, until people at work said they saw me on SCTV. Then it was like, oh, okay, she’s safe. It’s okay. Oh, but yeah, no. Very relaxed. I hosted Saturday Night Live, Saturday Night Live twice, and was shocked at how many good pieces at that read through didn’t make it to show yeah, like the stuff that I thought was funny, I guess I’ve done wrong taste well. I mean, good stuff made it but, but so much good material that would get laughs, and it just, it’s gone, then, isn’t it?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  32:04

It’s gone. It’s totally dead. I mean, occasionally something will come back, but I don’t know that’s the that’s the culture of the place. But, I mean, it stands to reason that good things get lost because you read so many sketches. I mean, I mean, it goes on for hours and hours. It’s a pile, you know, two feet high, of sketches so but, you know, it’s funny, because when I went back to host, I would, I’ve hosted a couple times, and it was hugely, it was like going back to high school and getting to redo things.

 

Catherine O’Hara  32:40

Do you know what I mean? Oh, nice.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  32:41

Yeah, it was because I knew how the show worked. I knew what I needed to do to succeed on the show, and the schedule hadn’t changed since I was there in the 80s. It was the exact same, right? The only thing that was different, it was obviously a different cast, definitely more female, friendly and different producers, and they wanted to find material for you to do. Yes, as opposed to, she can be the waitress.

 

Catherine O’Hara  33:12

Your coffee, your coffee, Mr. Gumby and Andrea and Catherine can come in as the wives. They’d come in as the waitresses. They’d come in as tell me about it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  33:22

What about I read that you were when, I guess it was at SCTV that you would tell your ideas to Dave Thomas, and he would pitch it.

 

Catherine O’Hara  33:30

Yes, it is sad. He wouldn’t pitch them on my behalf. He would just pitch them if it was a good idea. Yeah, you gave him permission to do that. Well, unspoken, I guess what if we what if we do? And they’d say, hey, what if fathers have and if they laughed, he, he’d just go along with that go. And sometimes I was, that’s my idea, which is really sad.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  33:51

Excuse me, that’s my idea, hello.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  33:55

When was there a moment in your life when you thought I’m not going to do that anymore? I’m going to pitch it myself. Do you remember?

 

Catherine O’Hara  34:02

No, I don’t. I don’t remember. You know, I’m still scared.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  34:06

See, this is what I want to talk to you about. Because I was wondering when I read that, and I thought I’m was so used to being shut down. Yeah, that was just part of the thing. You know it was, I don’t know if I think it’s a woman thing. I think it’s a woman thing, but anyway.

 

Catherine O’Hara  34:27

You’re probably right.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  34:28

I think I am. But let me see, I would say that.

 

Catherine O’Hara  34:35

Are you looking at?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  34:37

Looking at AI to help me get through this, because I’m having, let me just keep it, Julia, say, Julia, you are one of three women in the Okay, yes. AI is helping me here, yes. And, but there is, there was, and I still fight it a remnant of, for example, when I’m pitching something, you know, whatever. Any aspect of a scene or a this or a that there’s a part of me that has to push through that pitch, because that’s a remnant of from way back then, of not being heard. And I think it also leaves me with a little defensiveness about my ideas, that’s probably not healthy. But, I mean, I’m aware of it as it’s happening. Do you kind of know what I’m talking about?

 

Catherine O’Hara  35:26

Oh, yeah. Oh, I start. I would start most, if I’m conscious, try to be conscious of it, then I’ll try not to do it. But I would start more, most ideas with, sorry. This might not work, but what about this? Yeah, sorry. I know you’re doing that, but yeah, the sorry, always a sorry. I would do that at a restaurant, though. Sorry, could I? Could I get more tea? Please? Yeah, yeah, sorry. Remember, I asked for tea in our work, but it’s okay.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  35:51

I’m so sorry I didn’t order this hamburger. I’m so sorry I ordered a salad.

 

Catherine O’Hara  35:57

Exactly. Sorry, would you mind taking it back? I’ll still pay but please, sorry.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:01

I’m sorry this. I think I’m sorry I was standing in line here. Oh, you want to go ahead? Yeah, go ahead. Oh, it’s fine no, it’s fine.

 

Catherine O’Hara  36:08

I said sorry. I’ve said sorry to a key on my on my iPad or computer if I hit the wrong one, sorry.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:17

Oh, dear. Is that bad?

 

Catherine O’Hara  36:20

Well, you might want to get a CAT scan after we finish this conversation, just saying.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:28

It’s time for a break, we’ll get more wisdom from Catherine O’Hara in just a moment.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:43

You so you talked about when you were doing SCTV, so you were one of two women in the cast, right?

 

Catherine O’Hara  36:50

Uh oh, I know where you’re going, Lady.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  36:52

Yes so tell me.

 

Catherine O’Hara  36:57

that’s what’s wrong with aging. You start seeing things a little too clearly. Yeah, that’s why men like to go with the younger women, yeah, because they don’t get it yet.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  37:11

Perfect, that’s the problem with aging. You see things a little too clearly. So the fact that you guys were being paid less than your male counterparts.

 

Catherine O’Hara  37:23

Honestly, you know what? Though, I’ve got to correct that, because really only in the last few years, uh, find out that John Candy also got Okay. Explain that the two women and John Candy got paid less than everyone now John, God bless him, turned it around big time as as the years went on. Yes, he got a lot, he got a lawyer, and he got more than anybody, and good for him.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  37:46

Well, so maybe it was about you just had shitty representation, or was it.

 

Catherine O’Hara  37:52

We had no representation.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  37:53

Oh, well. So there’s the real problem. These are the days when you didn’t need representation.

 

Catherine O’Hara  37:59

Julie, they just said you’re gonna pay.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  38:01

We’re gonna pay you $200 a week. And you’re like, yes, uh huh.

 

Catherine O’Hara  38:06

Oh, that was exactly what it was like for me.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  38:08

I know I remember.

 

Catherine O’Hara  38:09

And I’m not kidding.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  38:11

Of course, you’re not kidding. I remember that when I got first hired to do second city, and I was doing, I was in, I was still at school at Northwestern in Chicago, and I called my acting teacher, and I said, Guess what, bud? His name was bud buyer. He’s passed away. And I said, Guess what? I just got hired to do Sex in City. And he said, How much are they paying you? And I said, Yeah. He said that, as opposed to anything else. And I said, Oh, I don’t know. I forgot to ask. And then he laughed at me and made me feel so bad about myself. I mean, he was like, Oh, God, You’re kidding. Oh, he’s it was a real asshole move.

 

Catherine O’Hara  38:50

Boy. Was he jealous, like he wouldn’t be able to teach you, he wouldn’t be able to you. Would you would stop doing classes with him or something?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  38:56

Well, guess what I kind of did, because that was coming. Yeah, I started doing theater in Chicago and and I took a lot of pass fails and put off semesters and things like that. But anyway, it’s all good. It all worked out. Talk about when something ends, I know like when a show ends, it can be so emotional. And I know that Marty short, he threw a party for you and he played a bunch of clips of your time at SCTV. It was so emotional. That’s the very sweet of him to have done that, isn’t it? Why are you laughing? He didn’t do it.

 

Catherine O’Hara  39:33

Yeah, he did. But I think he did it to torture me. I don’t know if he was doing it to be sweet. Oh, for real.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  39:38

No, there was a party. Don’t what it was a party.

 

Catherine O’Hara  39:42

It was a party at the end of a season, I guess. And I had given my notice, yeah, that I was leaving. And it was, it was all about my personal life, I swear, my quitting. You know, I got out of high school and got into second city. That was my life, right? In Second City to SCTV, like, I just went along like, Oh, now we’re doing this, and we’re. Get paid. Oh, it’s amazing, you know. And then I finally hit at some point at this reality, like, where is my life going? And I need to focus on that other part, like meeting someone or, you know? I mean, I was raised to think you get married and you have children, if, God willing, you know. And that’s yeah, you know. And that’s your life, yeah. So I so I quit, mainly for that reason. So it was really emotional. I didn’t want to leave the show, really. I didn’t want to quit, but I thought, if I don’t focus on I don’t know, I don’t know. I’m not sure. Smartest thing really made my dad sad, because he was so happy if the show was doing well, and he heard about it at work, that was awful. Um, but yeah. Anyway, so yeah, the the was a party at the end of a season at Marty’s house, and he put a clip package together of my work.  Oh, it was like, why did it? Does Jimmy Marty, that was my reaction. We were going outside the house crying. It’s like, Catherine, I thought it’d be fun sorry.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  41:02

Oh, I see. So it Okay, got it so when you did work with Chris on all the movies that you worked with him on, Chris, guess, yeah, all of that stuff’s improvised, although there’s an outline correct the way Larry David does on curb.

 

Catherine O’Hara  41:17

Yeah no dialog written, although they would have food. They definitely have great running jokes. Yes, of course, no. Like in Best in Show. It was in the script that I would run into guys who had the best sex of their lives with me. I mean, and couldn’t be better. I want that for all my characters. And Chris never repeated. Like from take to take when you’re improvising all your dialog like that, and you do, you know, 123, takes, what? Everything I came up with, something there just happened. And now do I repeat it? Oh, is that cheesy to repeat it? And, oh, how can I get that joke in? Like, what if that take isn’t used? And, you know, maybe it’s a sound problem, or whatever the shot, and it’s like, oh, we came up with that. Like, where does that go? Can we not want to? You know, there’s always that challenge in the brain like no open up. Just be open to whatever happens. You know, just listen, Chris guest, would never repeat a thought between takes. Oh, really. As an actor, you would crazy as an improviser, just so free thinking wow.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  42:16

We did that on Veep. We used to. It wasn’t necessarily an outline. But very often there would be scenes and Armando innucci, who created the show, he would he would say, Okay, forget the script. Just, just go and do something. Go, just go try this in rehearsal. One for fun, whatever you know you’ve got to get to point A to point B, and it was so much fun to do that kind of thing, terrifying.

 

Catherine O’Hara  42:45

But as long as you know what point A and point B is, yes, then, then you can if you know the parameters, yes, I find when it’s just open themselves. Hey, why don’t you improvise something? What within what? What are you talking about, right? Do you love your downtime, or are you work it a lot. Well, you’re doing a podcast. So obviously you love working.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  43:04

You know, I love working. I don’t love being away from home, and even now. I mean, my kids are grown. Let’s talk about that.

 

Catherine O’Hara  43:13

So you have two sons, and so do i Yes. Don’t you just want to raise them to be lovely partners to somebody just,

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  43:21

Yes, you do. And are they? Are your sons partners to anyway?

 

Catherine O’Hara  43:25

Yeah, they are they both. They both live with their girlfriends and and they are good guys and they and they really love each other. Do your two get along.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  43:33

Like that, they’re like, yeah, because thieves, I mean, I think they’re like, best friends. Yes, it’s, oh, that’s my biggest triumph in life, actually, yeah, yeah. How did you do that working when they were little? How’d you figure that out?

 

Catherine O’Hara  43:49

I didn’t. I really didn’t work much.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  43:52

Oh, you didn’t work much.

 

Catherine O’Hara  43:53

No, I didn’t. No, and I’d work in town. Remember the first, the first offer I got to work. They were both. How old were they probably about five and eight, maybe six and nine. And I got offered a job in London. Oh, and yeah, and it was a six week job, and we had a great nanny at the time. She wasn’t living, but she was great, great, great girl. So they came for two weeks. I was alone for two weeks. They came back for two weeks, you know, got them out of school, whatever. So I thought, you know, you’ve always heard that with relationships, with the couples, two weeks is the limit. It shouldn’t go longer than that apart, unless it works for both of you, I guess, right. Same for kids, yeah. So that worked at that age. What about you when they were little?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  44:38

When they were little? I mean, yeah, I was doing Seinfeld when I had both of them. So with the they’re five years apart, yeah, and so with my older son, Henry, I bring him to work. I had a nursery on set, and so he came to work with our nanny. And so I go back and forth. Frankly, that was really hard, you know, because there. Was there was always this pull in one direction or the other, and it was sort of hard, to a certain extent, to kind of be where you were, yeah, but that’s how I did it. And then I had our second son, Charlie. Just it was just that last year of Seinfeld. So he was just a baby. By then, I realized it was better for me to leave him at home and go to work and then come back. But, I mean, we were in, we were all in. La, so it wasn’t like I was on location or anything like that. So Henry had a memory of me working. He remembered craft service. He was just like crazy.

 

Catherine O’Hara  45:36

Oh yeah. They love that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  45:37

They love this.

 

Catherine O’Hara  45:38

Charlie. Does Charlie feel ripped off because he didn’t get to be on the set all the time.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  45:42

No, I don’t think so. I took a, there’s a picture of him on set in the in the Seinfeld diner that I have him on the tip. No, he doesn’t feel ripped off at all. But what I was going to say is that a couple years later, I did go back to work. I was doing a series, but it was a single camera series called watching La. And I was, I had not been gone from home while he was young. And so now he was like four, and he came to set one day, and I was showing them the sets inside the studio, and one of the sets was a bedroom and and so I was pointing it all out. And then as he was leaving, he says, Mommy, I love your new bedroom. I thought this child, I’ve moved here.

 

Catherine O’Hara  46:30

Oh, that’s cute.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  46:34

But now, but your boys are in, your boys are in the business. Is that? Right?

 

Catherine O’Hara  46:37

Yeah, well, the older one, the 30 year old is doing, was doing set construction. And the younger one, who’s 27 is a set dresser in Vancouver. There’s tons of work there, but they’re so lucky. They have jobs.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  46:52

They’re so lucky they have jobs. And both of them, of our boys, too, are working in this industry. And it is quite a remarkable thing to witness, isn’t it to see them? Yeah, yeah. But I’m really glad they’re artistic. Aren’t you glad that your kids are artistic because they are I mean, obviously they’re creating, making things that’s cool as shit.

 

Catherine O’Hara  47:11

Well, we definitely encouraged that at home, didn’t we?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:13

Yeah, we did. I because it’s all we knew. Frankly, I didn’t know anything else.

 

Catherine O’Hara  47:17

I can’t even make a sense of humor. I think you’re so lucky if you’re raised with a sense of humor, boy, isn’t it the truth? It’s a gift. It’s a gift you either get given or you don’t. I don’t know how you get I don’t know how you get it on your own.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  47:29

You know, it was Fran lebois was on this thing, and we were talking about that, and she said, it’s a sense of humor. It doesn’t mean that you are funny, funny, but you have a sense of humility. You understand what is funny, which is sort of the beginning for me anyway, of all the relationships I have, that is top of the list, I mean, oh yeah, or aligned with kindness, I think, right, it has to be there, doesn’t it?

 

Catherine O’Hara  48:01

Yeah. Well, you and your husband met in comedy, didn’t you?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  48:04

Yes, we did.

 

Catherine O’Hara  48:04

Yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  48:06

Talk about your husband, Beau. And can you tell the story of what you wrote in your journal? Do you still write a journal? By the way, do you keep a journal?

 

Catherine O’Hara  48:13

No, and journal is such a lofty name for what the Fauci I was writing. What were you doing? I woke up at 11 again. What am I gonna do?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  48:25

Catherine, that’s your memo well, that’s it. That’s called a dead giveaway.

 

Catherine O’Hara  48:31

Yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  48:31

Oh, tell me what you wrote lame, why?

 

Catherine O’Hara  48:35

I did, yeah. Why this guy? Bo well, she talks to me every day. Why won’t he asked me out. We’re supposed to get buried.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  48:42

And did you fall in love with him? Like, straight off the bat?

 

Catherine O’Hara  48:46

Kinda, yeah. And once we did go out, that was it. There was no not go well. I mean, we’ve had a couple of breakups, but, yeah, you’ve never had a breakup with your husband. Have you no no, have you gone through Have you gone through periods?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  49:00

Sure, what? Oh, of course, always. I mean, anybody who says they haven’t is that’s life is lying, yeah. I mean, there’s always going to be some conflict, but he’s very nice person, so at all. I mean, he is actually, and I get the sense Bo is too.

 

Catherine O’Hara  49:17

Yeah, he’s a good guy. And we just, we really laugh a lot every day.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  49:22

And your parents were married a long time, right?

 

Catherine O’Hara  49:24

Yeah, 50 something, 56 years. I guess, when my dad went, goodness.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  49:29

Well, you’re on your way.

 

Catherine O’Hara  49:30

God bless you, to that.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  49:32

Wait a minute. And then your parents were married that long, and then they died within 10 months of each other. Is that correct?

 

Catherine O’Hara  49:39

Yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  49:40

Oh my goodness, that must have been brutal.

 

Catherine O’Hara  49:45

Well, it was for them. I you know, I remember being really grateful.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  49:49

Oh, really?

 

Catherine O’Hara  49:50

Well I mean, I always was, but especially grateful at my mom’s funeral that my mom and dad had given because my dad went first, and then my mom died 10 months later. But. That they had given us each other because we were all together. They get, you know, they had seven kids, and we’re all still going, thank God, my oldest brother’s 83 Oh, my goodness, yeah. And that they that just seemed like the most beautiful gift that they’d given us each other to be with. Yeah, yeah, my mom, you know, you hear that a lot about couples, you know, one dies and the other dies soon. I would not have predicted that about my mother. She was really vivacious and loved, loved painting and drawing and dressing beautifully and talking to everybody on the streets, wherever she went. She was friendly with everyone, and just, you know, really loved life and but my poor dad had gone through a lot. My mom took care of him for years, and I think that really just wore her down physically. Oh, so wasn’t I don’t think it was a typical like, Oh, my world, he’s gone. So my world is gone. She was she was physically done. She was done yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  50:58

What did they teach you about marriage. Do you think, in retrospect.

 

Catherine O’Hara  51:03

Oh, you gotta laugh. Laughing. Making each other laugh is a very sexy thing. Yeah, yes. It is, yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  51:12

Yes, um,  yeah, it is, yes.

 

Catherine O’Hara  51:14

It is, oh yeah. I think back on everybody trying to date, everybody at Second City Theater is because we’re making each other laughing. Well, we should be together. I’m funny. I find you funny.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  51:25

That joke is amazing. I am fucking you tonight.

 

Catherine O’Hara  51:30

Right? For real, you’re funny. I’m gonna have you totally like my old fashioned way of saying. I’m going to have my way with you.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  51:41

But sense of humor for sure. I agree with that.

 

Catherine O’Hara  51:43

And faith. My mom and dad were devout Catholics, but never forgetting that the greatest gift is a sense of humor, you know. So you know, very faithful, but definitely with humor.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:00

When you were talking about having all those siblings, did you ever think you would have lots of kids like your parents?

 

Catherine O’Hara  52:05

Yes, I did. I really stupidly assumed it. Why didn’t you?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:10

You just, if you don’t mind my asking, I got married late.

 

Catherine O’Hara  52:14

Uh huh, and my body was, you know, every time I had craps, every month, the worst craps. My sisters and I all got them really bad. And they would take, they would take 220 twos. It was a codeine you could get in Canada. And I, I would never, if I took one, I would hurl non stop. So I could never take anything. So I’d have to, like, play these mind games to will the pain away. But I would think, when I had those pains, I thought, well, someday I’ll have children. It’ll all be worth it.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:44

I’ll have seven kids of my own.

 

Catherine O’Hara  52:46

But no, but yeah, two good ones.

 

Catherine O’Hara  52:48

That’s good. They’re wonderful.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:50

Yeah, I often think, Oh, I wish I had one more.

 

Catherine O’Hara  52:55

You’re thinking comedy threes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  52:56

I actually am. Hey, thank you for giving us so much of your time today. You’re really very Thank you. It’s really nice to talk to you. You will edit, won’t you, please? Yeah, you’re gonna sound like a million bucks by the time we’re done with this thing.

 

Catherine O’Hara  53:12

Oh, you’re beautiful. I love you.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  53:14

I got you back, baby.

 

Catherine O’Hara  53:17

Thank you, Julie.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  53:20

I’m going to ask you a few sort of rapid fire questions.

 

Catherine O’Hara  53:23

Yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  53:24

Tell me, is there something you’re looking forward to?

 

Catherine O’Hara  53:27

Seeing my sons. Yes, yeah. It has been a while now.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  53:31

How long has it been like?

 

Catherine O’Hara  53:33

A couple months, yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  53:37

Is there something you go back and tell yourself at 21?

 

Catherine O’Hara  53:40

Say, good for you, you nervy little thing.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  53:44

Oh, I like that affirmation. Good for you. Is there something you wish you’d spent less time on in your life?

 

Catherine O’Hara  53:54

Oh, maybe sleeping.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  54:00

I have never in my entire life heard somebody say they wish they’d spent less time sleeping.  You are fucking lucky. You sleep too much, seriously?

 

Catherine O’Hara  54:14

I didn’t say recently, well, in your life, my life, so when you were like a teenager.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  54:22

When you’re a teenager, you would sleep until like two o’clock in the afternoon, right?

 

Catherine O’Hara  54:26

But I was also, you know, hormone, I guess, in 1617, I was just, I would come home from school and just sleep, and then my mom and dad yell for dinner, and I’d go, no, get alone. I just wanted to sleep. And then when I worked at Second City Theater, you know, we did the show, and then we would go to one of our houses and stay up all night coming up with ideas. It was so fun and authentic and exciting. I didn’t want anything else in my life. It was so great. But then I would sleep most of the day. Got it so that’s why I think maybe I missed something. Things. Think I missed John Candy’s wedding for real. I was asleep.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:05

No.

 

Catherine O’Hara  55:09

Why am I admitting you’re like Barbara Walters, you’re just getting everything out of me.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:15

I am.

 

Catherine O’Hara  55:16

You’re gonna make me cry now.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:17

Any minute, it’s gonna happen here, this will make you cry. Is there something you want me to know about aging Catherine? Or I’ll say it like this?

 

Catherine O’Hara  55:26

Is there something you would like me to know about aging Catherine?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:32

Let you find out for yourself. I don’t want it, Catherine.

 

Catherine O’Hara  55:39

I don’t want to taint it for you, and I don’t want to tease you, in case it’s not as good as what I’m getting.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:46

Oh God, Catherine, you’re fantastic,

 

Catherine O’Hara  55:50

You are.  You’re awfully good at this.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:52

I adore you.

 

Catherine O’Hara  55:53

I love you. Thank you.

 

Catherine O’Hara  55:54

I love you too. Are you gonna call your mom?

 

Catherine O’Hara  55:58

Yeah.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  55:58

Who you actually gonna say you talk to?

 

Catherine O’Hara  56:01

Catherine Hepburn came back from the dead. Ow, all right.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  56:07

There you go. You know, Jane Fonda was on this podcast. She talked about Katherine Hepburn being very competitive.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  56:17

Wow, yes so a. Oh, yeah, that just that’s not a surprise, though, is it really.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  56:22

No, it’s not.

 

Catherine O’Hara  56:23

I caught up dinner once with Jane Fonda and a bunch of women. Yeah, she was being honored the next evening, and she told us about shooting coming home and how the director, he said there would be no sex scene because John Voight, character couldn’t feel anything from the waist down. And she said, but I can do, you know the scene, I sure do.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  56:46

He services her, yeah, it’s the only thing I remember from that movie, yeah, but she had to fight for it. It gives new meaning to the title, because that was, remember, because they she was having sex with Bruce Stern. Bruce Stern, yeah, at the top of the film, and it’s, it’s without passion and any Yeah, yeah. Then John Yeah. John Voight knew what to do.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  57:12

Yeah, because she told him off camera, that’s what needed to be done. I love that there was going to be no sex in the movie, because the men said the man couldn’t feel anything. So why would there be anything?  Why would anyone get anything out of the deal?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  57:32

Yeah, wow. I didn’t know that. Yeah, it’s funny, because it’s the I mean it, it’s the only thing I remember from that movie. I was like, oh, that’s kind of interesting.

 

Catherine O’Hara  57:43

Isn’t it?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  57:44

Yeah, anyway, thank you again for being so kind and generous. Thank you, Julia, and I give you all my love.

 

Catherine O’Hara  57:51

Thank you.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  57:52

And I look forward to seeing you. I hope soon.

 

Catherine O’Hara  57:56

I would love that, please. Yes, please.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  57:58

Thank you for your time. Thank you so much, take care.

 

Catherine O’Hara  58:00

Thank you, you too.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  58:09

Well that was so much fun. I’m gonna get my mom on Zoom to tell her all about the list conversation. Hi, mom.

 

Mommy  58:21

Hi, love how you doing?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  58:23

Hi, I like your vote pin. That’s very good.

 

Mommy  58:26

Thank you. Big news this year vote.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  58:28

Yeah, vote. Thank you very much. Have you voted yet, Mommy?

 

Mommy  58:32

Yep, I voted by meal. Very nice.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  58:36

So I talked to Catherine O’Hara toda, who is a wonder. And I know I admire her so much. I don’t know how to say it. I just respect and admire her so much. Although, Mommy, I have to tell you something, I think I offended her to start out, I told her, you know, she’s a devout Catholic, and she comes from a large Catholic family, and the church has a lot of meaning for her, and I told her the Catholic priest joke that David Sedaris wrote about in his New Yorker piece. Do you have any jokes you remember mom?

 

Mommy  59:16

Yeah, I was just we were talking last night about the first joke that you ever heard. You know, yeah, it’s not very fun. I mean, it’s hysterical, but it’s not funny, really.

 

Catherine O’Hara  59:26

Well, what is it?

 

Mommy  59:27

It’s what daddy told his grandfather was a minister.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  59:31

Uh huh.

 

Mommy  59:32

And his 80th birthday, his mother drove them across country to Oklahoma, and daddy, Tom’s about four at that time, he says, I’ve got a joke. His grandfather loved jokes, so he said, Oh well, tell it. Tell it. So he says, Why did the ocean roar? Well, you would too if you had crabs on your bottom. Well, I mean, that’s, that’s the oldest joke in the world, and but every kid, every kid, knows it as their first joke. Mean, I think at least daddy did. And I remember thinking that it was just hysterical, that joke.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:06

Oh, really, when you were young?

 

Mommy  1:00:08

When I was young, yeah, I don’t mean now.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:10

Well, let me ask you something. Can you define a kind of thing that makes you laugh?

 

Mommy  1:00:19

It’s funny that you say define because almost, if you can define it, you’re not going to laugh at it, right? The joke that the funniness comes from number surprise, but also the the turn, the twist that you didn’t expect. Yes, so that that is it, can I define it? No, but I sure know when it happens.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:39

Yeah, you sure know when it happens. I mean, I remember when we were little, you and I used to howl. Well, chances are I was howling and you were laughing because I was howling. But we would watch, I think it was soupy sales, or was it Captain Kangaroo with the ping pong balls.

 

Mommy  1:00:57

Oh yes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:00:59

But he would do a thing, and ping pong balls would fall on him unexpectedly. And three year old, me thought that was, I mean, it was essentially like a Jack in the Box or something.

 

Mommy  1:01:10

Now, well, good joke is so important, yeah, but who can remember them?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:01:15

Well, I’m asking you, can you remember a single joke?

 

Mommy  1:01:19

Hold on a second. What? Close, but no cigar. No, I can’t. Can’t. No, sorry, no mad, because I know some funny jokes.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:01:32

You do? I wish you could remember them.

 

Mommy  1:01:35

There was one time I was telling a joke at somebody’s 80th birthday party, yeah, and I got up to tell it’s about the guy that’s he’s in a refrigerator, and the refrigerator ends up hanging over in a balcony. It’s very complicated, but I got through all of the complications and then remember the end. So I started to laugh so hard, and I couldn’t, I couldn’t even think, or laughing so hard, and everybody was howling, and nobody ever got the said to me always, what was a joke? I said, I have no idea. I got it, and it was so funny. And if I squash people, they would have laughed so Julie, I know jokes that are so funny that it gets gigantic, but they’re going to be silent for now.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:02:28

What I wish I could know the refrigerator one with the man in the refrigerator hanging over a balcony.

 

Mommy  1:02:33

Oh no, it’s about, you know the guy that’s sort of in bed with the wife, not his wife, and so then why? He jumps into the refrigerator, but, and then somehow the movers come and they take the refrigerator. I know it’s very complicated.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:02:52

Well, it sounds like a smash hit. Mom should take that on the road.

 

Mommy  1:02:58

No, in the telling is all makes sense?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:03:02

Yes, evidently, that’s the case. Yeah, the telling, the telling is the key. The telling is the key,

 

Mommy  1:03:15

Amen, alright.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:03:17

Mom, well, listen, I’m really happy with this conversation.

 

Mommy  1:03:20

What is it? I’m so dying to to hear your your interview.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:03:26

What interview? Which one?

 

Mommy  1:03:34

Catherine, with Catherine.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:03:40

Oh, I forgot we were on the we were on it, or the buttons on the podcast.

 

Mommy  1:03:45

What is it yet to do with Catherine?

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:03:47

Okay, Mommy, yeah. Um, so long farewell, um, I’ll see you next time I see you.

 

Mommy  1:03:56

I see you soon.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:03:58

Okay, love you.

 

Mommy  1:03:59

Love you, bye.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus  1:04:10

There’s more Wiser Than Me with Lemonada Premium on Apple, you can listen to every episode of season three Ad free. Subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the Wiser Than Me podcast logo in the Apple podcast app and then hitting the subscribe button. Make sure you’re following Wiser Than Me on social media. We’re on Instagram and Tiktok @WiserThanMe, and we’re on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast.

 

CREDITS  1:04:41

Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media. Created and hosted by me Julia Louie Dreyfus. This show is produced by Kryssy Pease, Jamela Zarha Williams, Alex McOwen, and Hoja Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer, Rachel Neil is VP of new content and our SVP of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive Producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and me. The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Sparber. And our music was written by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel, and of course, my mother Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts. And if there’s a wise old lady in your life, listen up.