Julia Gets Wise with Rita Moreno
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On today’s episode of Wiser Than Me, Julia connects with EGOT-winning actress, singer, and dancer Rita Moreno on her 93rd birthday. The two discuss why Rita almost backed out of her Oscar-winning turn as Anita in West Side Story and the complex emotions Rita experienced after her husband of 45 years passed away. Julia and Rita also bond over the fact that they both find Mel Brooks sexy. Later, Julia talks with her 90-year-old mom, Judith, about seeing the original West Side Story on Broadway and how musicals can be an important vehicle for storytelling.
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Transcript
SPEAKERS
Mommy, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Rita Moreno
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 00:00
Just a quick note before we begin. This episode contains discussion of sexual assault, and there is a brief conversation about suicide. If you or someone you know is in emotional distress or contemplating suicide, you can call or text 988, to access a trained crisis counselor. Okay, so we got invited to a fancy friend’s fancy apartment in New York for dinner, the kind of thing I’m usually actually quite good at getting out of gracefully. But in this case, it actually did sound like a nice group, and I hadn’t been around humans for a bit, you know, because I’ve been working and whatever. And so off we went, and I got seated next to a gentleman whom I have met before, and I’ve never really gotten to but what the heck I mean? How bad can it be bad? Okay, so first of all, he starts to butt into conversations from all around the table. The mansplaining gets going pretty fucking quickly, and we learned that, apparently, he’s an expert in everything, and most of all in making a lot of money, which is just so thrilling to hear about again, from another Ivy League educated white guy who wouldn’t know his own privilege if it ran him over, which it did several times. But did it stop him from bloviating? Oh, no, it did not. And like I said, You know what? These were fancy friends, and they have a little balcony thing. So we’re sitting outside. It was a lovely early fall evening, and as this guy is pontificating about his latest trip to Dubai and the rising value of something or other, and I’m just praying that dessert is coming so I can get the hell out of there. I started to notice this really weird smell, right? I mean, it’s like this awful smell. It’s very close by, and I’m trying to identify it. And then it hits me, oh my god, it’s dog shit. This motherfucker is not just completely full of shit. He has stepped in shit. Okay, dog shit. What a tremendous justice this was, but it was an awful stench. So dessert comes, and I hurry through it, and I make an excuse, and we hightail it out of there, and that dog crap smell follows us into the elevator, where I’m telling my husband about how awful this guy was. And then the smell is with me straight out into the street, and it’s still lingering as I’m, you know, dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s of my description of this, let’s just say it asshole. And it’s not until we are literally stepping into the cab that I realize the dog shit is on my shoe. Yeah. Here ended the lesson, Judge not that ye yourself be not judged and all of that. But my big takeaway was that when you step in dog crap, you really have to just throw away the shoes. And my other big takeaway is how much I enjoy talking here to the wonderful, wise women on this show. I mean, it’s so refreshing and revitalizing for me, and I hope dear listener for you too. So thank God, thank God then that today, we get to talk to someone who is not full of shit, but is full of wit and grace and talent and wisdom, the incomparable Rita Moreno.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 03:52
I’m Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 04:16
Some actors have a kind of motor and energy in their performances, from role to role that is kind of supernatural. You know what I’m talking about. It’s like an inner light that they bring to all their characters. They seem somehow to be totally alive, powerful and impossibly vibrant. Our guest today is an actor like that. The first time I saw her, she was singing and dancing across the screen as Anita in West Side Story, a movie that came out the year I was born. The film was shot in English with heavy accents, and she was totally captivating to me, from the bitter comedy of her killer dance number America to the unforgettably go. Gorgeous harmony of I have a love. Oh god, I can’t even think about it. It’s so good, knock out stuff. And of course, she won an Oscar for it. And if it was compelling to me when I saw it on TV and reruns in the 70s, imagine what it meant to Latino families across this country and its territories as they watched her in a Spanish dubbed version for them, Rita Moreno wasn’t just a star. She was their star La Nuestra. Her extraordinary career on stage, in the movies and on TV spans seven decades. She was the first Latina to win an Emmy. She has two actually, a Grammy, an Oscar and a Tony, the famous EGOT at a time when Latin people were especially marginalized in Hollywood, Rita fought and continues to fight for roles that portrayed Latinas with dignity and depth. To put this into perspective, despite being the largest minority group in the US, Latinos still remain underrepresented in the media. Let that sink in for a second. If it’s bad now, can you imagine the shit show it must have been like back then? She has channeled that strength into becoming a trailblazer beyond showbiz too. She marched for civil rights alongside Dr Martin Luther King, Jr, advocated for her friend Norman Lear’s People for the American Way, a progressive advocacy organization and has consistently worked to empower Puerto Ricans, urging them to vote and hold elected officials accountable. And that energy that I was talking about before it’s still there. The woman is a dynamo when she performs. Now, amazing, whether you know her from the Ritz on Broadway or West Side Story The Electric Company. Hey you guys, 80 for Brady or her scene ceiling role in one day at a time, Rita has managed to keep the same irrepressible charisma she’s had since starting Spanish dance lessons in the Bronx at the age of six. There’s even, by the way, a tribute Barbie doll of her in her Oscar dress. I am so thrilled to welcome a real star, a mother, a grandmother of two, a true force of nature, and someone who is miles and miles and miles wiser than me, the wonderful Rita Moreno, welcome, Rita.
Rita Moreno 07:19
Wow, I want more money. If I’m that terrific, I really need to be paid for this.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 07:29
No, you really do. That is such a good response to an intro. I want more money. Oh, Rita, okay. Are you comfortable if I ask your real age, Rita?
Rita Moreno 07:44
Oh, for sure. Today’s my birthday.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 07:47
Get the hell out. December 11.
Rita Moreno 07:49
I am today, officially 93.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 07:54
Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear. Rita, happy birthday to you.
Rita Moreno 08:00
Man, Julia, that’s the best, the best.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 08:05
Let me ask you something about being 93 How old do you feel?
Rita Moreno 08:08
Oh, hell, I don’t know. I don’t I don’t go by numbers, so I don’t know. I feel like me and I’m, let me just put it this way. Yeah, I am a jolly, energetic joyous, emotional. I cry at the drop of a hat. Puerto Rican is what I am. That’s what I am. So I don’t know what it feels like to be me. This is what I am.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 08:36
And what do you think is the best part about being your age here at 93 years old.
Rita Moreno 08:42
God, that’s cool. I am so fucking smart.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 08:45
Yeah, this is the vibe I’m getting from you smart.
Rita Moreno 08:49
I’m smart, but I’m a lot of things that I have come to admire. I guess is the is the word I have come to like myself more than I ever used to in the old bad old days. Yeah, being a Puerto, see, I always thought of myself as a Puerto Rican, and that was maybe one of the greatest mistakes I ever made. So that that stuff is gone and done, I am just so fucking happy to be here.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 09:24
I heard you went on a two week vacation with your daughter. Yeah, is that correct? And what was that like? Do you travel with your daughter a lot, and talk about sort of, when you go on vacation with your daughter? Are you planning it? Are you relaxing? Are you? What is it all about?
Rita Moreno 09:42
It started this way. I was trying to think of a great birthday present about four years ago for her, and then I thought of something that we both absolutely adore. We’re still Easterners in many ways, and even though I was born in Puerto Rico, but I was raised in New York City. Right, yeah. And I said to her, how does this strike you? We go to Boston, rent a car and drive through all the New England states that we can and watch the leaves turn. Ah, which is my idea of pure heaven. Ah, we’ve all, I’ve always loved that. She’s always loved that. And she said, really? I said, why not? Why not? That’s a present. And she said, My goodness. So I put her in charge, because she’s the organized one in charge of finding someone who would book us in little hotels, sometimes motels and and help us devise a map where we would get the most fun and the most eyeballing that we could. It turned out to be such a success. We put on only Broadway musicals. Oh, and sang the songs at the top of our lungs. Yes, we visited all the.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 11:03
Oh, God. I love New England, isn’t it divine? It really is marvelous. It’s really marvelous. And
Rita Moreno 11:10
The leaves are just outrageous. They’re so gorgeous.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 11:13
Yeah, and they smell so good, too.
Rita Moreno 11:15
That, and we also had lots of lobster rolls, you know, all the stuff you can’t really get here in California, yes. And we ate at fabulous places. We ate at little places, lots of crunching through leaves that had fallen. Oh, I’m telling you, I could do this for the rest of my life.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 11:36
Oh, how lovely. Yeah, it’s such a great present for both of you. And then you get to be together and really connect.
Rita Moreno 11:43
You know, we’re very close. Yes, I can tell. I mean, despite my being an impossible person and she being an impossible Daughter, what can I say, we’re both a pain in the ass in our own special ways.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 11:57
Yes, but you’re a pain in the ass together, right?
Rita Moreno 12:01
Yes, so it’s a great relationship.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 12:04
It’s so lucky. That’s so beautiful. I love the idea I’ve actually given my boys. I have two sons, and I’ve given them both frequently. I’ve given them like experiences as gifts, as opposed to more crap to have around the house.
Rita Moreno 12:22
You know, mean by experiences?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 12:24
I mean tickets to shows, to tickets to games. They’re both really into sports, so I get them tickets to go see the Lakers or the whatever it happens to be baseball that go see the Dodgers, stuff like that. They love that kind of thing. But now I’m thinking, I’m gonna give them trips with me absolutely. Yeah, I’m gonna do it absolutely. So you’re obviously very fit. You work out all the time. What’s your deal with that at all? Get out of here. No way, Rita.
Rita Moreno 12:58
Well, my knees are shut to pieces from all that dancing. I mean, West Side Story. No, the thing that really killed my knees was playing Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard. Oh, and you know how she makes these incredible entrances down the steps? Yes, well, in order to come down steps, you have to go up steps backstage, right? Uh huh, yes. And that almost killed me. That really ruined my knees. It’s ruined many knees, many, many knees. So I don’t do things that call for knee work, and that’s almost everything. So I walk, I walk the dog, and I can’t bend them very much. In fact, when and if I am asked to accept a wonderful award, which happens more now that I’m, you know, older, and they’re saying quick before she gets sick, kicks the bucket, let’s give her this award. Let’s not be let’s not be found wanting. So, I mean, they think I don’t know these things, uh huh. Anyway, I always have to say, am I going to go up steps to the stage to accept this award? Because if so, then I really need some help.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 14:16
Well, I was there when you accepted at the account recently at the Academy Museum, and they gave you an award. Were you there? Yeah, I was there and I heard your speech, which I want to talk about, but the I don’t remember you getting help going up the stairs.
Rita Moreno 14:30
Oh, it’s like 40 men came over.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 14:33
No, that’s his bullshit.
Rita Moreno 14:35
No, I really my my knees hurt terribly when I go upstairs. So my my grandson, Justin, was the first one there, and I told him. I said, if there’s steps, please come help me.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 14:47
But you still walk. I mean, you’re obviously yes. Okay, so then, and what about if you don’t mind? I’m curious to know, do you have, like, a Do you have a food thing? Do you watch what you eat? Are you, explain what your food situation is.
Rita Moreno 15:02
I try not to you.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 15:04
Try not to eat.
Rita Moreno 15:05
No, I try not to watch what I eat. Oh, my God, you’re so funny. But no, I eat pretty much what I like. Yes, I am pre, what my doctor calls pre diabetic. Okay, so I do have to be careful about sweets and stuff like that, but I’ve been that for, you know, years, and I’m still good, good. So, so to hell with that, I’m just a lucky little bitch.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 15:37
Yeah, you are. You really are.
Rita Moreno 15:40
I am, I was just born with fantastic jeans. I have really good skin for someone who’s, you know, 93 today.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 15:48
I know. And then I read, you used to sit out in the sun and and become like a piece of bacon. What the hell you haven’t had, you haven’t had skin cancer issues or anything from that.
Rita Moreno 15:58
Never, is that amazing?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 16:01
Yeah, you’re so lucky.
Rita Moreno 16:02
My mom did.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 16:03
She did?
Rita Moreno 16:03
You know she had little skin cancer, things, but I’ve never, I’ve never had a problem with my skin. Doesn’t mean I don’t have wrinkles. You just can’t see them here. Yeah? But no, that’s even better, because I better focus. Yeah, out of focus is always good. Whereas my mom would say, you are out of focus, my mother said the most wonderful things, the best thing she ever said. And I can’t always tell this story, but I know I can with you. Tell me my brother was graduating from high school, and she gave him a little party. And she had about, I don’t know about 10 people grown ups, and she was so proud of him that he was graduating from, as she called it, you near high. Oh, you near high and, and she said, everybody, I want to say something. She said, I am so proud. I just want to tell you that he is graduating today from LA cant junior high. You uh, can you imagine the expressions on faces? I mean, there were people. I mean, there were eyes that went like this.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 17:32
Big eyes and I remember, I ran to her, and I said, Mommy, for God’s sake, but she didn’t know. She didn’t know it.
Rita Moreno 17:42
Oh, of course not. But it was also very, very annoying too sometimes. And I said, a, e, i, o, u, can’t you say that? Can’t you say she said, No, and you know very well why I got trouble with my bowels. So leave me alone. She was funny.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 18:01
So speaking of your mom, when you left Puerto Rico, you had a very tight family community back in Puerto Rico, and you came to the United States with your mom when you were five or five, I believe, yeah, and it was just the two of you in New York. How did you in those early days, how did the two of you navigate together? Your team? Correct?
Rita Moreno 18:24
Actually, if she were alive, you should ask her, because I’ll never understand how she did it. She had two or three jobs at once. Yeah, my mother was a wonderful seamstress. She had jobs sewing. She would leave me with, you know, a friend, and she would go down to the to the the district where they do all the sewing and that kind of stuff, the garment district. Thank you. That’s the one thing that’s happened since I became this age. I forget nouns.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 18:58
That’s fine. I’m here for you.
Rita Moreno 19:00
Okay? Anyway, she did that. She took me to shows. She took me to dancing class. I used to dance for grandpa in Puerto Rico, and that’s how it all started, because I used to dance to records, and he loved it. He’d clap in time, and he’d laugh and he’d smile, and I remember thinking, this is nice, yeah, I like this. I like this a lot, yeah, and that hasn’t changed. I love the attention. I mean everybody, every actor, not every, but many actors who say they don’t are full of shit. They like the attention.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 19:40
They do. They do like the attention. Let’s just put it this way, they need the attention.
Rita Moreno 19:46
Yeah, that’s the way to say, I need it. I’m an attention person. I love it. When people say, I love you, that’s swell. It’s not as though I’m I’m fighting and battling all these fans. I. Don’t have that kind of career or life, so it’s cool. And I just moved from a big house to a condo in a lovely little town near San Francisco, and I always know when they recognize me now that it’s a small town, because I get this a lot.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 20:21
Rita is smiling and waving at me, right, just so our listeners know, right?
Rita Moreno 20:26
And sometimes there’s a question in their face and I say, yes, I am.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 20:35
It’s time for a break. There’s much more with Rita Moreno, when we return.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 20:52
Rita, I read your memoir, and I have to say it’s a page turner. It’s really well written. Your life is just fascinating, and you’re able to relay that beautifully in the written word.
Rita Moreno 21:06
That reminds me of something, and I have to say it when I can think of it, because otherwise I’ll forget go. I did my I do a talk, and it’s about myself, okay? And it’s not on paper, uh huh. It’s somebody having a conversation with me. So it’s called a conversation with Rita Moreno. And I never know what they’re going to ask, okay, because I usually don’t know the person who’s going to do this. Oh, I see. But they know me, and they know my career, etc, etc, yeah, and I did it recently somewhere, and somebody said to me afterward, my God, you are. What’s the movie that Tom Hanks did where he played that wonderful character? Life is like a forest.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 21:49
Forrest Gump.
Rita Moreno 21:50
Somebody said you’re Forrest Gump, because you’ve done everything. You’ve been Washington, DC, the walk on Washington. Yes, Marlon Brando was your lover. Yes, you dated Elvis Presley and and I talk about all of that stuff. And sometimes it’s hilarious, sometimes it’s heartbreaking, yeah, because being in this business, being this age, particularly now, is difficult. You don’t get the jobs right that you used to. But when he said Forrest Gump, I said, you know, I think you’re right. Yeah, I’ve done it all, almost done it all. Do you know my wonderful story about Martin Luther King?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 22:30
Well, this is the story I want you to tell, please, because it, you know, I was, I was lucky to be at the Academy museum when you were getting the That’s right, because I brought it up, I know, but our listeners don’t know it. So you need to explain. Set the stage. You were involved in the Civil Rights Movement. You were there at the March on Washington, and you were right there next to Dr King correct?
Rita Moreno 22:54
I was 10 feet away on a chair sitting next to Sammy Davis, Jr, and Martin Luther King gets up to speak Yes, and he starts a speech that was not the one we know at the March on Washington. And at that point his very dear friend, who was that gospel singer, oh god, she was his good for us.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 23:20
It wasn’t Mahalia. Mahalia. Mahalia Jackson.
Rita Moreno 23:23
Mahalia, she was there with him, and she reaches for the back of his jacket because he started another speech that she was not expecting. I saw this, and I heard this. She says, Martin, tell him about the dream. Martin just put tugging on his jacket, and he literally stopped and started again. It didn’t seem that way, you know? Who knew? Yeah? Who knew, yeah. And he starts the I had a dream speech and the proof of that, because a lot of people didn’t believe me, because I’m one of very few people who knows his story. Nancy Pelosi knows his story. And what happened was that she apparently had heard him do this speech in one of the churches right of a Sunday, yes. And when she saw he wasn’t going to do that one, she thought, no, no, no, no, he’s got to tell them about the dream. […] I mean, just this gives me such huge goosebumps.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 24:26
Me too.
Rita Moreno 24:27
Makes me teary, too teary, and he, and there’s proof that he was not going to do that speech, because you can look it up in the archives. If you look up the speech, it does not have, I had a dream in it. No shit. No shit. Is that a story?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 24:46
That is a story. Can you talk about that? And at that point you hadn’t heard him give that speech, yeah. Can you talk about your personal Rita experience hearing that speech in that moment of. Time, can you bring us back to how you felt hearing it?
Rita Moreno 25:07
I’ll tell you what. He was a great pastor, yeah, because he was also an actor, right? That’s what made him, but that’s what made him so spectacular, yeah, and I remember when his voice starts to tremble. I had a dream and people say yeah, they’re going crazy, yeah. Before he even goes on, yeah, everybody’s yelling Yes. And I mean, my hair was just standing straight up. Sammy Davis was fit to be tight. He was just crazed with with with emotion. Everybody was crazy. And every damn time that man said something like that, or let his voice tremble, because, God, he knew when to do that. Yeah, see, that’s that’s acting too.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 25:56
Yeah, he could read the room, as it were.
Rita Moreno 25:58
You’re sincere about what you’re saying, Yeah, but it also calls for drama and a sense of drama, yes, and I realized how fortunate I was to have been asked to attend. Yes, it was Harry Belafonte who wanted some Hollywood people there, because I’m assuming he wanted Martin to know that there were people in Hollywood who were sincere, and that’s why he invited a group of us. Joseph Mankiewicz was there. James Garner. Now, Jimmy Garner was a friend of mine because I had done a bunch of his TV shows us a guest star, yeah, and Jimmy in the airplane was guzzling Pepto Bismol because he had, he had a an ulcer, oh, and he was scared to death that he would never work again. James Garner, wow. So you can imagine how I felt. Wow. I mean, I didn’t have that kind of name in a million years and I was terrified. You were terrified, because I would never work again. Yeah. I mean, come on.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 27:13
With good reason you thought this, yeah. And for the listeners, the Hollywood blacklist was a period of time, largely in the late 40s through the 50s, where the government persecuted people they suspected of being communist sympathizers. So given that, what did you learn about bravery during that period of time?
Rita Moreno 27:31
I learned that it was the only way to function, and I think I was immensely brave for this reason. How afraid you are determines how brave you are, as I’m concerned. Oh, so sometimes people do things that I know are brave, but nobody else knows, and I think that person is really courageous. So how how frightened you are like I was, that I would never work again, or that people, you know, the press, would take advantage of this Puerto Rican. Let’s not forget that that takes courage. I didn’t think of it that way. Then. I just knew that I had an obligation and a responsibility, and that’s why I was there. That’s why Harry invited me to be one of the people. Because at that point, just before then, I’d been doing a lot of political stuff. I had just started to get I had a friend, a girlfriend, roommate, Phyllis, who was very political. In fact, I believe she was a communist. Once no longer, but she became my mentor and my teacher. She politicized me, uh huh, and we met in group therapy. Oh, interesting. And became roommates. As a matter of fact, I was crazy about her, and she found me. She loved dearly. Loved me because she knew that I had gumption. I didn’t see myself that way at all.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 29:14
She saw it in you before you saw it in yourself.
Rita Moreno 29:16
She saw it way before I ever saw it in me.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 29:20
I love that. What you say about bravery, I really do. I just think [..]
Rita Moreno 29:24
It’s really determined by how frightened you are. Don’t tell me that people who do risky things aren’t worried that somehow it may, you know, come back and slap it in the face, I think, I think people know that it takes a certain amount. They may not call it that, right? I call it courage.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 29:45
Right, it is courage. You know, you’ve mentioned actually that Anita became a role model for you, which I think that’s interesting, because I’ve never thought about my. A character that I played as being a role. Well, of course, I’ve played a bunch of fuck ups but in my career. But what was it about the character of Anita that that you admired?
Rita Moreno 30:13
Well, it was the first Hispanic role that I had been offered who loved herself, she had a sense of dignity. I’ve never played a Hispanic character, excuse me, who had those qualities. This was the very first time that I played a Hispanic character who wasn’t talking like this all the time.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 30:41
You know who stood proud? Who? Who owned it proudly, all she loved it.
Rita Moreno 30:47
And she was proud of herself, and she wasn’t going to take any shit from anybody. And I, I was astounded that I was offered the part. I was astounded because I thought I’m so not that. Let me tell you an interesting story, please. Speaking of Anita, yes, when I finally got the part, because I tested and tested.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 31:08
Hey, did Chita Rivera also try out for it? Or have you never.
Rita Moreno 31:11
Never offered no.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 31:13
Wow, by the way. Just so our listeners know that cheetah played Anita on Broadway. Oh, she was the original Anita. But anyway, I’m interrupting you. You go ahead, talk about that. You’re you are auditioning for your auditioning for the role.
Rita Moreno 31:29
I got the part after testing a lot. They tested everybody in Hollywood with brown hair and brown eyes, uh huh. So I got the part finally, and I was beyond thrilled. I was it was a great part, yeah.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 31:43
Just a great part. And the music is so gorgeous.
Rita Moreno 31:47
Please, yes. The first thing I did when I heard that, I got the part, I ran to the music store and bought the music, the whole manuscript, so that I could be ahead of the game, and I would know America and all a boy like that, that kind of thing, so that I would know the songs backwards. You know, there would be no problem with that. Yeah. So I brought it home, and the first thing I did was turn the page to America. And here is what I read and sang to that manuscript, Puerto Rico, you ugly Island, island of tropic diseases. You know, even just saying it now in that context, gives me the chills and makes me, makes my stomach royal, because when I saw that, I didn’t realize that that was the verse in the Broadway play. And I remember thinking, I can’t, do this. I can’t, do this. And then this went on for days and days and days, and I kept thinking, I’m going to have to just, you know, call my agent and say I can’t do this. And then I would say, but I want the part. I want this so badly I can taste it, yeah, and then I would say to myself, No, you can’t, you can’t do it. You will never, ever live that down. I was probably right. And I would say, All right, I’ll call my agent, and it’ll be hideous, because he will scream at me. We worked so hard to get that fucking part. Yeah? I mean, I tested and tested and all kinds of Yeah. I went through hell to get it, and I thought I was, I was scared to death that he would talk me into doing it anyway.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 33:57
Did you tell anybody you had a problem with that line?
Rita Moreno 34:00
No, I didn’t know what to do. It didn’t occur.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 34:03
What happened?
Rita Moreno 34:05
I’ll tell you. The day before, I had designated the day that was going to call the agent. The next day, I got a delivery at my door of the new script of West Side Story because of changes had been made. They had to, because this was meant for theater. Now, this was the movie script, yes. And I went through the pages until I got to America, where they had the lyrics, and it said, Puerto Rico. My heart’s devotion. Let it sink back in the ocean that I could deal with, because it’s a character who says, I don’t want to go back to that country. But she’s not saying, You ugly Island, island of tropic diseases. I mean, I’m actually surprised that I was then that saw. Heim would write a lyric like that anyway. That solved that problem. And I said to my I called my agent the next day, I’ll say I have a story to tell you. And when he heard that, I was thinking of he said, You’re kidding me. I saw, of course not. Do you think I could really do that to my people? And he said, No, I understand. I said, You, I don’t think you do, but never mind. Thank you for saying.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 35:29
That you talk in your book a lot about sexual harassment, which you endured at that party.
Rita Moreno 35:39
Oh, that awful Hollywood cocktail party.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 35:42
That awful Hollywood cocktail party in which you were sexually harassed.
Rita Moreno 35:46
By the host and by Harry Cohen. He was the head of Columbia, and he was there at that party. And the very first thing that came out of his mouth when I was introduced to him was, I’d like to fuck you. To that day, I had never heard anyone use that word. I’d heard the word. I wasn’t, you know, that innocent, but I was in shock, and I know what I did. I giggled. I didn’t know what to do.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 36:15
Can I tell you something? Somebody said something like that to me back in the 80s in Hollywood, and I did the same thing.
Rita Moreno 36:26
I giggled.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 36:27
Did you?
Rita Moreno 36:28
I did I was very shows how helpless we were then, yeah, it’s amazing. We didn’t, we really didn’t know.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 36:37
And if you could like going, I know what I would do. Looking back on that, I wish I could replay it and just say, why don’t you go fuck yourself, which is, why don’t you go fuck yourself? Yeah, don’t fuck me. Go fuck yourself. Is that what you would do if you could redo that moment?
Rita Moreno 36:59
Absolutely, I mean, I have no qualms.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 37:03
But in other words, there’s no giggling now.
Rita Moreno 37:07
Not at all. It’s just, disgraceful.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 37:10
Well, except to say that, don’t you think the whole thing, it’s, it’s interesting because you giggle because, first of all, it’s so shocking, it feels so shameful. And you know, as women, I think we kind of absorb their shame.
Rita Moreno 37:25
That’s what’s so weird. You take on they’re the ones who should be ashamed. But no, it’s the opposite happens, right?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 37:33
It’s bananas.
Rita Moreno 37:34
That’s why I giggled.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 37:36
I know.
Rita Moreno 37:36
It’s bizarre.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 37:37
It’s bizarre. Let’s take one more quick break. My conversation with Rita Moreno continues in just a moment.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 37:57
So in the wonderful PBS documentary about your life, you talk about something which I think is going to really resonate with a lot of women listening to this. When your husband, Leonard, passed away, you were married for 45 years, yeah, you felt so many things, of course, and you were, you were, you know, with him at the end, I’m glad you’re asking me this. I know what you’re going to ask. Go ahead, yeah, but you said you felt a sense of relief. And I think that that was an incredibly talk about brave, brave thing to say. I think it gives voice to something that is un sometimes unspoken. And can you talk about that?
Rita Moreno 38:40
Many times unspoken.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 38:41
Yeah, right.
Rita Moreno 38:42
I’ll tell you something interesting. About four months after he passed away, I was at a party with people my age, mostly, and there were five women who were widowed, and I said to them, I would like to ask you a question that I hope won’t offend you, but I said, I really need some backup here, because I really thought I man, you’re a piece of work. You know, feeling relieved like this, because the morning after I came back home, he died in New York in the hospital. Morning After it in my bed, I said, When I woke up, oh my god, I can stay in bed all day if I want to. I can watch all the TV news that I want to, because that used to make him crazy, which is, you know, fair, that’s fair. And I realized that I just, it’s like something amazing went over me, passed over me, and I asked these ladies at that party back to that. Mm, hmm. I told them how I felt, and I said, Did any of you by any chance feel like that? There were five of them. Four of them said yes, and they didn’t hesitate to say it. Maybe because I brought it up the way I did, which was very simple and plain.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 40:24
And it’s not you’re not saying that your love is gone?
Rita Moreno 40:27
No you’re not saying anything like, remotely like that. What you’re saying is I started a new life, right? Brand new life, right? That I couldn’t give up because of my daughter. I just couldn’t dream of leaving her without her father at the ready at all times. I just couldn’t do it.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 40:48
Did you have any loneliness?
Rita Moreno 40:52
I had loneliness before he passed. Oh, because I didn’t feel able to share that with anyone. I really thought of going back into therapy, because one of the best things that I’ve ever done for myself was therapy, by the way, psychotherapy, but it was weird to feel all this freedom. I didn’t know what the hell to do with it?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 41:21
What did you do with it?
Rita Moreno 41:23
Not much. For a while, I cried a lot, because I did miss him, and you know what? I missed a lot. Tell me a lot to this day, I still miss it. Whenever he would pass me, usually it was in the kitchen, because I was always in the kitchen doing something, he would run his hand over my tush, which is so sweet. Always, nothing said, Nothing explained. I knew what that meant. He just loved my tush. He loved me very much. I think that Lenny loved me more than I loved him, because people, when they marry, very often make a pact, an unspoken pact. In my case, that’s exactly what we did. My pact with Lenny was, I’ll be your little girl and make you very happy if you’ll be my daddy and protect me, I see because I had a bunch of fathers, right? I know you have stepfathers and stuff, and that was the unspoken pack that we made. And then one day, after about 10 years, I began to dislike the marriage because he became a controller and and that really drove me crazy. And also the controlling part did something else that surprised me. I realized that in being his little girl, I was also this exotic, little tropical bird. That’s how he also saw me. And there was a point when I didn’t want that anymore. I wanted to say and I didn’t know how to get it. This is the kind of man who, when you would go to the thermostat in the house go to turn it up because you were cold, he’d say, Don’t do that. And I wouldn’t, oh, that’s how that was.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 43:34
So that was the pact. You listened. Was part of the pact. That was part of the path.
Rita Moreno 43:40
I know you said you wanted this. You got it.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 43:43
So you don’t have a partner now, right? And so can you talk about finding community? I mean, it’s one thing when you’re working, because that’s all built in. You know, you have your community at work, but when you’re not working, what’s your community? How have you found your community? I know you have. You’re a proud mommy and you’re a proud grandma. But beyond that?
Rita Moreno 44:12
Other than that, okay, I’ll tell you a story, I’m full of stories. I love apocalyptic stories. When I moved to this wonderful apartment, I found myself and I love it. It’s beautiful. It’s gorgeous. I found myself getting very sad. You know, this was like eight months ago, okay, really sad. And I had given up driving. Also, I don’t drive anymore because I don’t trust my reflexes anymore. Okay, and I got very lonely. Now I have friends. I have friends who love and adore me, and love and adore me in a wonderful way, because it’s not Rita. Reno, the performer. No, it’s Rita, my friend. Rita, yeah, you know. So I still don’t quite understand how it was that I got very, very depressed and very lonely, lost my appetite, and I sat myself down and did my what I do, which my therapist urged me to do. Whenever something puzzled me, he would say, sit down and think about it and come to some kind of conclusion, if you can. And I thought about I said, I’m in an apartment I love. I have my daughter, whom I worship practically. I have this beautiful place. I have this lovely little town. People smile at me because they recognize me and they’re respectful. They don’t, you know, all of that good stuff. What is wrong with you? Why are you doing this? And then I thought, I know what’s wrong what you don’t know how to make friends, because people have always come to you.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 46:06
Oh, so what did you do?
Rita Moreno 46:10
So one day I was in the supermarket, and there was a lady I’d seen several times there who had the loveliest face on this beautiful smile, and one day I went to the supermarket after I made this decision, and she smiled at me once again, and I stopped her, and I said, you have such a lovely face. Oh. I said, I think I would like to know you better. She said, Oh, thank you. And I said, I amaze me sometimes. And I said, Would you like to have lunch with me tomorrow? Oh, and she said, Yeah, I’d love to. Oh. I said, Great. Okay, see you at noon. So I met her for lunch, and we’re looking at the venues, and she says to me, tell me something. Do you always go picking up older ladies and super she’s still a friend.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 47:15
Oh, that’s so nice. Her name is Gail. Good old Gail. Everybody needs Gail in their lives. That’s right, yes, was it hard giving up driving? I bet that was hard, Jesus.
Rita Moreno 47:26
It’s still hard.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 47:28
Yeah, I bet.
Rita Moreno 47:28
Because I used to love to tootle around in my car.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 47:31
Of course, you have complete independence, autonomy.
Rita Moreno 47:35
And that’s what you miss. You know, I found myself calling Fernanda my daughter, would you have a couple of hours for you tomorrow? You know that kind of thing? Oh, I hated that. I still miss it. I still miss toodling.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 47:49
Of course you do. I can fully understand why that would be hard to give up. And what about things like cognition, like when you’re trying, I mean, it doesn’t, I mean you’re searching for words, here and there, but it doesn’t sound like you’re having an any serious cognition.
Rita Moreno 48:04
That’s the thing that’s happening, that’s been happening, which is that I don’t always remember nouns, names of people, particularly names of people, that’s why I had to ask you about that movie. See, I forgot it again.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 48:21
Well, now I forgot it, okay.
Rita Moreno 48:28
But that, yeah, so far, that’s the only thing. But it’s, it’s a very annoying thing, because you can see the object or the person, you see them as clear as day, but your brain will not come up with the name until five minutes later. It does come back.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 48:46
Is it frustrating to ask for help in those circumstances or not really?
Rita Moreno 48:52
Yes, it’s frustrating. Of course. It’s frustrating. Because very often I have to describe the person whose name I can’t think of. You know the one who was married to Harvey Weinstein, you know that kind of thing, oh, you mean so and so? No, that’s not the one. So, yes, it’s annoying.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 49:10
Yeah, it’s annoying. I want to, I’m going to completely shift gears here, because I what, there’s one aspect of your life that we haven’t touched on, and I think that people would benefit to hear from you about this. I know you battled when you were younger. Of course, you battled feelings of inadequacy, and you you attempted suicide. Yeah, I want to know if do you still struggle with a negative voice in your head, that negative voice from way back when. And do you have advice for people who struggle with a lack of self worth who are listening to this today?
Rita Moreno 49:49
There is very definitely a side of me that is always kind of delighted when something doesn’t work out for me, I hear. Name hitting, oh, I’ve named her Rosita, little Rosita, which was my name as a child, but this is a naughty Rosita who kind of sits on a shoulder, and I’ve learned to deal with her this way. Rosita when something bad happens, will very long, very often appear, not always, but often enough appear and say, I told you she’s still there after all these years, really, and after wonderful, wonderful psychiatric work and all that Rosita exists, and what I’ve learned to do with Rosita is say, go to your room, Little Bitch, sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn’t.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 50:56
But what happens? But what happens when she doesn’t?
Rita Moreno 51:01
Rita, but I have to, I Rita. Have to deal with it in my in my own way. I just have to, you know, I examine stuff. I examine stuff all the time. I break things apart like a puzzle. It’s that’s, that’s what I do. I’m very good at that. I’m very good at knowing why people behave in certain ways, which is part of being an actor, sure, human behavior, yeah. Oh, absolutely, yeah. And I’m really good at that, and I’m able to do it with myself. It doesn’t always work. But the thing is, you have to address it, her, him, whoever you have to address it. You can’t just say, God, I’m feeling so miserable. I’ll try to forget this, this. It doesn’t work anyway. Yeah, that doesn’t work at all.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 51:54
I in your life the there’s a theme that I’m feeling, and the theme is about power and freedom. And I think if you agree with me, as you’ve as you’ve lived your life, you felt more power, self power, and you’ve gained more freedom. Is that safe to say?
Rita Moreno 52:20
Yeah, you’re very smart girl, yeah, and you’re, you’re not a girl either. But I’ll take it, yes, I think that works very well. And I’ll tell you something else that I’ve started doing, and actually, since I moved here, which is not more than 10 months, maybe there’s something about me that’s very joyous.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 52:44
Yeah, no kidding.
Rita Moreno 52:45
It’s just very much a part of me. I laugh a lot. I mean, laughing is like a hobby with me, I love the reason I really fell in love with my husband is because he was funny.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 52:57
Yeah, that’s the great aphrodisiac.
Rita Moreno 53:00
I’m the only woman in life, in this life, I’m sure, who thought that Mel Brooks was sexy because he was funny.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 53:07
No, there’s another person who thinks the same, and that’s me. I couldn’t agree with you more.
Rita Moreno 53:13
Okay, I’ll tell you why I think that’s sexy. There’s something about someone who has a quick wit that makes me feel protected from the outside world, interesting, and I find that very sexy, because they can protect me with their wit. That’s still sexy for me, because that’s a way of protecting me by just coming up with some funny, hilarious thing that will distract that person who’s handing out the poison.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 53:44
Oh, interesting.
Rita Moreno 53:45
What’s your reason?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 53:47
I think for me, it’s twofold. I think it speaks to intelligence, which I find intoxicating.
Rita Moreno 53:54
Oh, me too. I forgot to mention that that’s so important.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 53:57
So important. Yeah, and it’s also just, it’s playful and it’s joyous, and that’s what I want. I want play. I want joy. That’s my goal. If there was anything more to get in my life, I just want more joy and more play. Yeah, and so Rita, speaking of joy, it has been so wonderful to speak with you today. And before we wrap up, I do want to ask you a couple little quick questions. Okay, okay, is there something you would go back and tell yourself at 21 Rita?
Rita Moreno 54:33
Oh, boy, I certainly would.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 54:35
What would it be?
Rita Moreno 54:37
You have value no matter what you think, you are special and you have value, nobody ever said that around me.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 54:52
Is there something you would go back and say yes to?
Rita Moreno 54:56
Did I originally said no to you mean? Yeah, I. I said yes too often. Let’s put it that way. That was my that was my character. Even when I was not happy about saying it, I would say yes. That’s fascinating. And I was very often, you know, that man who raped me that I talk about yes in the in the documentary, I ran into him about three years ago, and it turned out that the concert I was doing the following night was booked by him. He’s still an agent.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 55:34
He was and just so our listeners understand, he was your agent at the time, and he raped you.
Rita Moreno 55:40
And I was 16, and he raised me, and he raised Yeah, and I kept him as my agent. That’s the bad part, yeah, I found out that he had booked me in this concert about three years ago in Palm Springs, and he said he called me on the phone, and I thought, Oh, my God, he’s still around. And he said, My wife would love to meet you.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 56:05
Oh, Rita.
Rita Moreno 56:08
And I said, I don’t, okay, that’s her name. And he told me her name. He said, Let’s meet at the such and such restaurant for brunch. And you won’t believe the end of the story. I sit down, I meet his wife, and we talk and all that she has no idea, none. At one point, she decides she needs to go to the bathroom, excuses herself. And there we are, just the two of us. And I said to him, I have to talk to you about something. And he said, but let me say this first. And I said, okay. He said, I was always sorry I didn’t make you pregnant.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 57:05
What?
Rita Moreno 57:08
Yeah, that’s what all my friends say when I when I tell them this story.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 57:12
And Rita, what? And then, what?
Rita Moreno 57:14
Well, okay, how do you respond?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 57:18
How did you respond? How you can say.
Rita Moreno 57:20
You son of a bitch. I’ve never been and I that didn’t work for me. And I just said to him, You are a piece of work. And I got up and left. That’s all I could do. I mean, what?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 57:37
What can you say? Well, he has said he has to live with himself, that horrible, authentic, awful man. He has to look at himself in the mirror and be who he is. I’m glad you got up and left. I’m glad.
Rita Moreno 57:51
He didn’t realize what he had said. He really didn’t. Course he was coerced.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 57:59
So, of course, crude, vulgar, foul, inhumane, well, good. So, yeah, you didn’t tell him off, except that you did. You got up and you left.
Rita Moreno 58:10
There was no way to tell him off, right? What can you say? You were awful. I’ll never forgive you. I haven’t forgiven you. It doesn’t work.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 58:21
It just as you said it, I think in that circumstance, less is more, you’re a piece of work. I’m out, wow, that’s just incredible. Rita, you really are brave. So now I have one final question for you. Is there something you’re looking forward to?
Rita Moreno 58:39
Yeah, being 94 Yeah. So far so good.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 58:48
Oh, that’s right. I love it.
Rita Moreno 58:50
I mean, if it’s only nouns that I’m forgetting, that’s not the worst thing in the world.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 58:55
No, it’s not. No.
Rita Moreno 58:58
Are horrible, but so what? I don’t need them for anything anymore.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 59:02
No, it’s fine. You don’t have to walk up gobs of stairs, right? And listen, you are a blessing except to accept awards, that’s right. And I’m sure there’ll be plenty more coming your way. You deserve every one of them.
Rita Moreno 59:15
Oh, God no, I don’t think there’s anything left. I’ve got a lot of those.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 59:19
But listen, I want to tell you how much I admire you and i You’re You’re just a complete and total blessing to the world. Wow, that’s lovely. Thank you, and also thank you for coming and talking to us on this show. We’ve got lots of wisdom that you’ve imparted today, and we’re very grateful.
Rita Moreno 59:38
Well, you’re so special. Anyway, I was really was looking forward to this.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 59:43
Oh, thanks.
Rita Moreno 59:44
I had such a good time.
Rita Moreno 59:45
Good.
Rita Moreno 59:46
Thank you.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 59:47
Thank you for being here. Mwah.
Rita Moreno 59:49
My pleasure. Goodbye, bye.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:00:00
How much fun to catch Rita on her birthday. Oh, my God, that’s a Wiser Than Me first, and obviously she’s experienced so much in her life. All right, let’s get my mom on the Zoom and see what she has to say about this conversation. Hi, Mommy.
Mommy 1:00:18
Hi, love.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:00:19
Hi, lovey mommy. How are you doing?
Mommy 1:00:21
I’m doing fine. How are you doing ?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:00:23
Good, I just spoke with Rita Moreno, who is 93 years old, if you can even believe what I’m telling you.
Mommy 1:00:31
She’s incredible. And is she still dancing like crazy?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:00:35
She doesn’t dance as much as she did, because her knees are kind of shot as she says. However, she’s sharp as a tack. She says she’s still searching for nouns and things, but she’s still working. She gets out there. I mean, it’s, it’s quite remarkable, by the way, mom, when you were in New York in the 60s, even the late 50s, I guess, did you see West Side Story on Broadway?
Mommy 1:01:01
I did yep.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:02
You did?
Mommy 1:01:03
Oh yes, absolutely, yep.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:05
So you saw the original production.
Mommy 1:01:07
The original production, right.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:08
Tell me what your when you saw it. What was your reaction? Do you recall?
Mommy 1:01:14
Oh breathless, just breathless. It was just one of those. I mean, you knew from the minute it started. It was a little bit like chorus line the minute that it started, and the music, man, these shows the minute they started, you just knew that we were going to have a glorious time.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:33
Wow, so you got to see, so you saw Chita Rivera play the role of Anita, because she’s the one who played it on Broadway.
Mommy 1:01:40
Right I know. So what year was that? Do you remember?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:45
Oh, what year was it on Broadway? I’m going to guess that it was in the late 50s. I don’t know that for sure, but I would guess that because the movie of West Side Story came out in 1961.
Mommy 1:01:57
Right, So it had to be before then. So here was it. I was working at ABC at that time, doing summer replacement, and I was a placement for somebody’s secretary. And so I was listening. He had a telephone call, and the call came, and it was like, get ticket. It is going to be it smash hit. You know, get the get tickets. So what we did and, oh my god, yeah, so so many things, so many things. Then what else did you say? Oh my gosh, I saw Waiting for Godot with, with all these off Broadway things, and that had who was a lion, Burt lar, Burt lar and Zero Mostel in something called rhinoceros. So many wonderful things that I saw at that time.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:02:51
Yeah, did West Side Story? Did that impact your impression of sort of the Latin community at that time. Did the show have impact on you from a cultural point of view, as you considered the commute the latin community in New York?
Mommy 1:03:10
It did it. How to say this? You know, la cajo Fool sort of taught me about homosexual love. It made me see that it was real. I mean, that made me understand it. And the latin community, the sort of pride that they had in the in the struggle that they had, I sort of knew it. But it was yes. It was a way to understand. It was a way to not it.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:03:41
Yeah, well, it’s a very powerful work of art.
Mommy 1:03:44
Very, yeah.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:03:49
Great mommy. Well, thank you so much. I’m so happy to talk to you about these little things.
Mommy 1:03:54
So great to talk to you about these things too. And my, my poetry group was together yesterday, and they all said, he said, You’re a celebrity now.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:04:07
You are mommy, everybody is crazy about you.
Mommy 1:04:10
I said, well, you know, it’s just regular conversations that Julie and I have. And I said, I actually don’t want to get off the phone. She always says, well, okay, and less enough.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:04:22
I’m like a therapist who goes, Okay, well, I’m afraid our time is up.
Mommy 1:04:27
Exactly so, so until next time.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:04:30
Until next time dear patient.
Mommy 1:04:32
Yeah, anyway, much love.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:04:35
Love you mommy. Talk to you later. Okay, bye, bye. And before we go, dear listeners, if you or someone you know is in emotional distress or thinking about suicide, you can call or text 988, to access a trained crisis counselor.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:05:01
There’s more Wiser Than Me with Lemonada premium on Apple, you can listen to every episode of season three ad free. Subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the Wiser Than Me podcast logo in the Apple podcast app and then hitting the subscribe button.
CREDITS 1:05:23
Make sure you’re following Wiser Than Me on social media. We’re on Instagram and Tiktok at @WiserThanMe, and we’re on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media. Created and hosted by me Julia Louie Dreyfus. This show is produced by Kryssy Pease, Jamela Zarha Williams, Alex McOwen, and Hoja Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer, Rachel Neil is VP of new content and our SVP of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive Producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and me. The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Sparber. And our music was written by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel, and of course, my mother Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts. And if there’s a wise old lady in your life, listen up.
