Katie & Madison: When You Define ‘Playdate’ Differently

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Madison and Katie’s friendship bridges lots of differences — like their views on non-monogamy and what their husbands like in the bedroom. For this episode of Good Sex, Katie gets curious about her friend’s (famous) new lover, and Madison has lots of questions about having sex as a parent. Fortunately, as two of the hosts of their own podcast, Clit Talk, the friends are no strangers to discussing sex, from scissoring styles to the perfect process for anal.

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Madison, Claire Jones, Katie

Madison  00:02

Katie’s about to give birth to her second baby. And when she had her first baby like we had said clit so many times with this child is in her womb and like in the other room, I’m like, Katie, do you think your baby’s first word is going to be clit?

Katie  00:15

I was like, now it was book and then mama.

Madison  00:25

Hi, I’m Madison. I also go by sugar. I am a queer; married poly woman and my pronouns are she/her.

Katie  00:34

And I’m Katie, I am a monogamous mom. And my pronouns are she her.

Madison  00:41

And we are the co-hosts of the top rated sexuality podcast, clit talk, the pleasure positive podcast.

Katie  00:49

You’re listening to good sex. My relationship with Madison, we’re like sisters, I would say like she’s one of my best friends. And probably the person that if I’m ever in a bind, I’m gonna most likely call her first. She’s also a really great sounding board for me, to empower me to move forward and be explorative and transmute my trauma into kink. And she’s just an all-around badass, and also my business partner.

Madison  01:27

This is my warrior goddess sister, who I’ve chosen to do life with. This is my work wife. We couldn’t be more polar opposite in so many ways, but also such twins in other ways. And it’s amazing to have that polarity and a friendship. You know, I’m super non-monogamous. She’s super monogamous. And somehow we are the best of friends.

Katie  01:52

Our show clip talk was actually inspired at Madison’s bachelorette party. She received a book called Pussy: A Reclamation by Regena Thomashauer, and it just completely transformed all of our lives. And I’ve worked in television and entertainment for almost 15 years now. And I was like, this is a show. So we started recording our conversations. And from there, that was five years ago.

Madison  02:20

Okay, so Katie, okay. Your baby’s room is across the hall. How do you manage noise control? Like when you’re having sex? Are you quiet intentionally? No fucks given? Or do you not do it when your baby’s there?

Katie  02:40

I really think it’s kind of no fucks given like, once he’s asleep, like, I don’t even think about him hearing us and coming in. Because he’s out, you know?

Madison  02:52

So he’s not like walked in on you guys?

Katie  02:55

He has not walked in on us, although I will say Sunday mornings or is when my husband takes him to the farmers market. And that’s my morning. And that is like when I my regular pleasure practice is on point. And he did almost catch me. The other weekend like self-pleasuring, but he didn’t.

Madison  03:20

So basically, they came back from the farmers market a little earlier than you were expecting. And you were about to climax and you had to navigate that moment with as much grace and ease and motherliness.

Katie  03:31

Intensity and quickness. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, didn’t see anything, it was fine. But I did almost get caught by him recently, which is funny to be asked that now because it’s the first time it’s ever happened. But I will say that since my son was born, every time he would go down for his nap, I would start running the vacuum cleaner. So that noise or intense sound I’d like do the blower like the leaf blower outside, like right outside his window. So that noise was not an issue to disrupt his sleep. And this wasn’t just for sex. It was for like a lot of reasons so that he would be like a really healthy sleeper. So I feel like I’ve taken a lot of actions to have to have him like that peace so interrupted.

Madison  04:22

So you’re not like the kids have to be out of the house. It’s mostly the kids need to be sleeping. We’ve trained them to be really like MVP sleepers, not waking hours, they’re not waking up for nothing. And that’s really that’s really awesome. Because I imagine as a parent, you’re always putting your child’s needs first.

Katie  04:49

When they’re awake, we’re with them. We’re on you know, unless unless our babies unless we have a babysitter here, you know, which we can get some afternoon.

Madison  04:59

In the day say like when you have a babysitter, do you guys ever, like, take advantage of that and like, go get a hotel or like send them off on like a like adventure.

Katie  05:08

We send them off on like a walk around the block, you know? Like, like, go play outside and play outside today, bye. Yeah, I think both my husband and I are just such private people that like if we felt like someone was like hearing us we wouldn’t be able to like actually enjoy ourselves.

Madison  05:29

For you and your partner too, you guys are on top of your shit. Of course your sex game is dialed in as like new parents.

Katie  05:40

So I have a question for you. What do you do as a poly woman when you have sex with someone else? And it’s better than this sex you have with your husband?

Madison  05:51

Oh, we’re diving right in?

Katie  05:56

Such a hard question. Oh, what do you do when you’re like, Oh, my God, I just like you’re not my husband. But sex is better with you like. And then you go back to having sex with your husband, and it’s just like, not as good as the other one?

Madison  06:13

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, this this can happen. First, I want to say that context is decisive. The polyamorous relationship style has been has there’s some stigma around it.2 There’s the question of Is it cheating? Even if you agree, there’s this idea that people there’s a lot of breakups. And the thing is, is there’s not more breakups in polyamorous relationships than in monogamous relationships in general. We know the divorce rate, we know the breakup rate of relationships, it’s very high across the board, no matter what your fucking relationship style is. You debunking those misbeliefs. That being said, if you’re coming from an old relationship paradigm mindset, or you’re coming from the monogamous paradigm mindset, which is that can be comparative because you’re selecting one partner. So you’re saying this person is the ultimate person for me. So that means there could be this sense of feeling like you could be replaced. So from that comparative context or mindset, sure, if you fuck someone and it’s better than with your primary partner coming from that context, you might be like, I want to replace this person, I want this person instead. And that can be complicated that can then be where like these breakups happen, I’ve held space for several friends who have changed their primary partner because they fell in love with someone else, or they thought the sex was better with somebody else. My line of belief really comes from honing in on the context that love is abundant. And that when we love over here, we bring that love back into our primary relationship and my intention, so there’s the context, the intention is super important as well. The intention being that I am engaging with this other lover, to enhance my marriage or my relationship. And I’m here to enhance this person’s life. So any person I’m engaging with sexually, I know what their ultimate deepest desires are, like my current lover right now, who’s a famous rockstar-ish. I asked what he wants in life and relationships, and he says he wants to call on His divine partner. And so I’m like, beautiful by being in your life, like I hope to support you in magnetizing that person to you and being a space for you to get more clarity on what you want in a partner. To really now just directly answer this question though. The sex is out of this fucking world with the rockstar. Oh, man, this was like the most compatible sex I’ve ever had in my life. And because of my context, and intention, I’m I know exactly where home is. I know exactly where to come home, my husband. My intention is to enhance my relationship. Therefore any thoughts feelings or actions I take are coming from that place. I’m always hesitant to like recommend non-monogamy and polyamory for people that are like in that space of their monogamous relationship isn’t working, so they think that this is going to fix it.

Katie  09:36

Yeah. No fucking way. It’s like, it’s like you think a kid is going to fix your marriage?

Madison  09:39

Right. Exactly. So I really think being grounded in a certain belief system will support you then it doesn’t matter if you have better sex with somebody else. The question is adorable, like I love the question and it’s adorable. And you know, that’s yeah, what well, that’s, that’s scary to think about coming from the context that you could replace your partner. I’m not coming from that context. So it doesn’t scare me that I’m having some of the best sex in my life right now.

Katie  10:13

So your partner is actually experiencing Do you feel like you’re he’s experiencing conversion, which is, you know, he’s happy for your pleasure outside of your relationship, basically?

Madison  10:28

Yeah, he has joy. He has joy for my joy 100% And I will say we had sex the day after I had this amazing sex with the rock star. And it was like some of the best sex that me and my husband and I have had all year so I totally believe that that energy is getting transmuted and coming back into my relationship, like, like, the dick was so good with my husband the other night that I was surprised. I was like, did someone just come into his body and like, do everything that I like, like what is going on right now? This is some amazing sex. So that idea of, it’s going to that intention of this is going to enhance my relationship. I didn’t know how it would but what’s showing up is me and my husband sex is like so hot right now.  Speaking of hot, I have a question for you that’s pretty hot. Okay, how do you initiate anal sex? Like at what point does this happen? And what do we do to prepare for anal sex?

Katie  12:28

So anal sex is kind of my thing, which I know that you know. So, I really got into thick bag of like, initiating it. I mean, in my relationship, it’s the that’s like what we do is we you know, start with oral, move to penetrative vulva, penetrative sex, and then, and then we end an anal, because I really like it, and so does my husband. So I am always prepared for it. And I have like a whole system that I like to talk, so let’s talk about the system first. Because I think this system is really important because it allows me to be free and open in the bedroom. And look, if you’re playing with fire, you’re like, you’re gonna get burned sometimes. So like, it’s nothing is like foolproof. So, and, you know, it’s not a big deal, either. And by big deal, you’re meaning like poo. There’s poop in your rectum. Like, that’s where it comes out. So if you’re going, if someone’s going to be putting something in there, there’s a chance that some could come out. So bottom line, like, let’s demystify that sex has to be super clean and tight knit and like perfect, like sex. Sex is messy. And I think that’s kind of like the hottest thing about it. Like, even if you’re like a squirter, or like, all of the bodily fluids is super-hot. So whenever my husband wants to have sex, I do ask for like 15 minutes to warm myself up. Because I’m also my husband has theirs like, his desire type is spontaneous, and mine is very responsive, so I need something to really respond to. So I like to take some time to warm myself up before we’re intimate together. And what I’ll do is all my sex toys are right next to my toilet. And I love to whip out my cordless hitachi vibrator and just like start massaging my clit and I’ll like bring myself to sometimes climax but really just kind of opened my body. So I have like a little enema kit. It’s just like a little bulb syringe. And you just put a little bit of water lube, lube, definitely put lube on the tip, put a little bit of water up there, hold it, and then give yourself like a mini enema. And that, you know, cleaning my body out and knowing that my body is open and gorged and I brought like blood flow there, like, I’m ready to be intimate and do whatever.

Madison  15:34

That point your asshole is like ready to hold space.

Katie  15:38

Ready to hold space for a cock. Got it. And so as my vulva and like I, I’m ready to be like, more turned on by my partner.

Madison  15:47

Yeah, you know, I don’t do anal sex with my husband. It’s just doesn’t turn him on. He’s not into anal sex. So we just don’t go there. And so I’m seeing this as a really incredible opportunity to actually have anal sex with someone because I feel like this rockstar would be super into anal. And I was just thinking this next date could be really great. Now, you mentioned like, this is just something you and your husband do like you have a routine and you know what you like with each other. So for someone who’s in my situation, this is maybe this will be the second time we’re ever having sex with each other. You love her new friend. When should I initiate like, should I bring this up beforehand, have an anal sex conversation with him beforehand?

Katie  16:28

I think any kind of sexual explorative sex conversations is always great. It’s like a consent conversation. You know, it’s always great to have beforehand when your clothes are still on. And you’re able to just have like an explorative conversation, which can be like super erotic and kinky, but also could be a space where one or the other wants to set some boundaries, or some sort of system like maybe you want to talk about like how you want how what will make you feel most comfortable, and that it’s something that you really want to try.

Madison  17:03

I mean, this could be a really hot like dinner conversation, we’re gonna have dinner at his house and I’m like, we’ll have our clothes on. And that could be like a sexy moment to talk about the ways in which we want to play with each other that evening, but what I’m thinking is just in terms of the system that I’m gonna need a little like, anal to go bag or something with this like bold anima and like maybe a vibrator like..

Katie  17:34

Okay, so I have a question for you now. What’s your favorite sex position with a woman?

Madison  17:44

100% Hands down. No questions asked after this scissoring, and that is your vulvas are pressed against each other and your clips are rubbing and it’s a little bit of like a humping and gliding and is my favorite.

Katie  18:05

Yeah. scissoring now, is there like a double sided dildo involved in this or is it documented or just like vulva on vulva, action?

Madison  18:17

Vulva and vulva action. I really love scissoring because to me, like one of my female lovers, we’ve been together for three years. She’s one of my main lovers, main female lovers. And for the it was like maybe like four months ago, we scissored for the first time after like being inside of our friendship for three years and it was like some of the deepest sex I’ve had in like years, the level of intimacy when you get to super juicy pussies rubbing against each other there it’s like the most intimate thing ever in my view, and then once you are done like once scissoring has happened and there’s a lot of turn on and you’re both people are fully engaged. It’s so fun to like bring in penetration and create what I love about the double sided those it creates that same feeling of closeness because yeah, if you can take the whole thing like depending on the size of your double sided dildo mine can be totally swallowed by both pussies at the same time. Then you can still be having, you can be scissoring while having the penetration and that oh my god but also that’s really intense. So to start with that is like you want to be in gorge so scissoring is really great because it’s a way to like warm yourself up but it could also serve as a fully like complete experience and of itself like both partners could come to orgasm from just scissoring, you know?

Katie  19:48

Okay, so this is this is the progression This is the system, this is the scissoring.

Madison  19:52

I do have a system I do have a progression to absolutely.

Katie  20:04

Thank you for listening to GOOD SEX.

CREDITS  20:12

GOOD SEX is a Lemonada Media Original. The show was produced by Kegan Zema and Dani Matias our supervising producer is Xorje Olivares. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Music is by Dan Molad and APM music. If you like GOOD SEX, please rate and review us. Listen and follow for new episodes each week, wherever you’re listening right now. And if you want more good sex, subscribe to Lemonada Premium for some quickies additional conversations between our guests only on Apple podcasts.

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