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All Podcasts Meet the New CDC Director (with Rochelle Walensky)

Meet the New CDC Director (with Rochelle Walensky)

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Description

Incoming CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky gives her first major interview. She and Andy discuss her background as a young girl who wanted to grow up to be financially independent and how that turned into a storied career that led her to the pinnacle of public health. She discusses the challenges she faces in this epic role and her priorities for the CDC. There’s never been a more important time to have a strong leader like Dr. Walensky in charge of this agency.

 

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Follow Rochelle Walensky on Twitter @RWalensky.

 

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Andy Slavitt & Dr. Rochelle Walensky

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  00:00

I never anticipated I would take on a role helping lead our national response. And government service was never part of my plan. But every doctor knows that when a patient is coding, your plans don’t matter. You answer the code. And when the nation is coding. If you are called to serve, you serve. You run to take care of people, to stop the bleeding, to stabilize, to give them hope, and a fighting chance to come back stronger. That’s what doctors do. I’m honored to work with an administration that understands that leading with science is the only way to deliver breakthroughs, to deliver hope, and to bring our nation back to full strength. To the American people and to each and every one of you at the CDC. I promise to work with you to harness the power of American science, to fight this virus and prevent unnecessary illness and deaths, so that we can all get back to our lives.

Andy Slavitt 

Welcome IN THE BUBBLE with Andy Slavitt. This is Andy Slavitt. Quite a week, quite a week. Maybe we’ll start by talking about the voice you just heard. That was Rochelle Walensky. Who is going to be taking one of the most important jobs at one of the most important times in the history of our country. She’s going to serve as the new head of the Centers for Disease Control, which is one of the most important positions that President Elect Biden is named. We’re gonna talk about what she’s gonna do in that job, and why it’s so important this time and why she took the job directly with Rochelle. And I’m just gonna tell you, you’re about to fall in love with this woman.

Andy Slavitt  02:02

She is just absolutely one of the most gracious, wonderful and terrific people I’ve had a chance to talk to. And I left feeling so much more confident and inspired in the direction that things are going to change. Now, things won’t change immediately in all fronts, but they will begin to change. And when you listen to Rochelle, I think, hopefully, you’ll have the same reaction I do. Anyway, I’ll be interested in hearing I found her to be just absolutely amazing as you listen to her story. You know, we need it. I mean, let’s be honest here. We could use some transformation and some change. I’m not even gonna start this episode by talking about the pandemic.

Andy Slavitt

I feel like we have to address the crazy mutiny in Washington this last week. And I don’t know about you. But you know, to me, it was a combination of so many things, not just the egging on and the doubting of the election. But it felt to me, like the manifestation of so much that we’ve experienced over the last few years. And I wish I could even say that the worst day of this administration was when they broke a few windows and killed five people at the Capitol.

Andy Slavitt

But on an everyday, these last few months, we’ve had several 1000 people dying. And we’ve had no response really, I mean, no real national response to that. And I think the people in the country feel neglected, I think we feel like that kid whose parents just aren’t paying any attention at a time when they really need it. It’s not like, it’s like we’re self-sufficient yet. We’re in a stage where even if you don’t believe in government, even if you kick yourself as someone who wants a limited government, this is the time when the things that we invested on are supposed to be invested in and are taking care of us. And it hasn’t. So we are now depending on when you’re listening to this. We’re only a few days from the end of this administration and the beginning of the next one.

Andy Slavitt  04:16

And you know, at so many times, policy is personnel when it comes to politics. Because who you bring in, who you put in some of these critical roles has more to do with what happens. Than even the slogans that you say on the campaign trail. And I find really competent, compassionate, honest people in these roles. You need a culture of leadership change that I think for this country, it’s going to be good for us. But the facts on the ground are rough, in many respects. We should be seeing the peak in the number of deaths in many parts of the country and we’re not. There’s parts of the country that are seeing extraordinary growth in new cases. And it’s hard not to believe that, that is tied to the new strains of the virus.

Andy Slavitt 

And we’re going to bring you an episode next week, that’s going to help you understand what exactly is going on with these new strains. What does it mean? What should be worried about? What shouldn’t we be? We got you covered; we’re going to help you figure it out. I also want to give everybody an enormous thank you. So proud this month, we made another donation for COVID relief. We’re now I think, up to about $70,000 in donations, all coming from all of you listening to the show. So tell your friends to listen and good things happen. We are donating $17,621.64, to the YWCA of greater Minneapolis, who has been doing an enormously important job supporting the community during the COVID crisis, but also in the aftermath of the George Floyd murder.

Andy Slavitt  06:05

Where this city’s been absolutely turned upside down. And the YWCA has just done a tremendous job, their focus is promoting girls and women, ending racism, can’t think of a better mission. One more thing, before we get to Rochelle, there’s some news around a major change to Twitter this week. And as you know, there’s been a big adjustment in terms of a major account on Twitter. And of course, that’s the ad @InTheBubblePod account. That is now on Twitter. We were waiting for the @RealDonaldTrump account to go away so that there’ll be enough room for all of those followers and bots.

Andy Slavitt 

But seriously, we have finally launched the ad in the bubble pod account. You should follow it. Because on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, I know you’re not getting enough IN THE BUBBLE. And now you can so add @InTheBubblePod, please follow. But let me get to Rochelle Walensky. I really hope you get to know her. I really hope you enjoy this.

Andy Slavitt

Hi there!

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

Hi.

Andy Slavitt 

How are you?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

I’m well, I’m in search of my headphones. Give me one second, here we go.

Andy Slavitt 

Thanks for being on.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

Thanks so much for having me.

Andy Slavitt

It’s so great to talk to you. Tell me about the moment you found out that you were being named the CDC director.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

It was more about the call that even started at all. You know, I was in a meeting with my chairman. We were talking about, you know, search and what was happening with COVID in our hospital and I got a phone call, a messaged basically that Ron Klain had called. And I certainly knew who he was, and I had no idea why he would be calling. So the first thing I said is well, before I call back, I sort of have to prepare myself for whatever it is might come and I called my husband. And he said whatever it is, no is not the answer.

Andy Slavitt  08:12

I love your husband.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

Yeah. So it was I mean, that actually was not that I would say no. But it was a vote of confidence that I had my husband and my family behind whatever question was gonna come my way. So I wouldn’t say that yes was the immediate answer, I needed to learn more. But that’s kind of how it went.

Andy Slavitt 

That’s great. And what was going through your head, when you were thinking about being given the scope and importance of this job?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

Yeah, the enormity of the task. the enormity of the task at baseline is huge. I mean, this is just an agency that is of such importance to this country and to public health. And then that has been so beaten up, and then that we’re in the middle of a pandemic, that happens every century, and the CDC needs to be the center of it. So you know, on the one hand, I, you know, I certainly asked myself, am I up to the enormity of this task? And yet on the other hand, I said to myself, I want to do this because I sort of feel like, I believe in the core values of how I think this should be done. And so if I can bring that to this mission, then who better?

Andy Slavitt 

So a lot of people can probably relate to that feeling of am I up to the task, even in much smaller ways, when we get promotions or when we are taking on something big or if something just sad or tragic happens in our life, and we’ve got to script ourselves for something. How did you resolve that? And how did you get there? And I should say that everybody who knows you never had that question. It’s only a question you probably had of yourself. But that’s probably the most important person to answer the question.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  10:01

Yeah, I mean, I think there have been, I’ve talked to a lot of people. Nobody has suggested to me I shouldn’t dive in. Many people have said to me, if you didn’t ask that question, you didn’t go for a job that was big enough. And so I think, and, you know, I certainly was not looking for a job, I was not ready to leave the job I was in and I figured I would be in that job for way longer than I was in it. But if I thought that this was going to be anybody taking on this job right now, if they thought it was going to be easy, then I think they have perhaps too healthy of a sense of self.

Andy Slavitt 

Right. Right. A little healthy fear is called for in this situation. Tell us a little a few of the seminal moments of your life and of your career that helped us understand you and help you think about this moment that you’re stepping into.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

I knew I wanted to be a doctor really young. I didn’t have them any female physician role models, my parents are not physicians. But my pediatrician, it turns out was a woman. And I looked up to her a lot. And so that was sort of the vision of what was possible. My parents are split, they’re divorced, I’m very close with both of them. And I’m lucky enough to have both of them still alive with us. But one of the things that that showed me is the importance of being financially independent as a woman. That I really wanted to make sure that whatever I did, I could stand on my own two feet. So I knew I was going to have a career. And I love math sciences.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

So love math sciences, I loved people. So it really did fit that I would be a physician. So, that path was actually pretty easy for me. I remember 1991 vividly, and I was a first-year medical student and I walked into the hall and lecture hall, and everybody was poring over the paper that Magic Johnson was diagnosed with AIDS, or with HIV actually. And I just remember, everybody’s being struck. How could such a giant literally on top of his game have this, you know, on the front page of the paper have this happened to him. So I remember that pretty vividly.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  12:09

And then fast forward to 1995. I was a house officer and inner city, Baltimore, I just graduated from medical school. And you know, we were in the middle of bad days of HIV. So I wasn’t there, you know, in the middle of it during the scary times when we didn’t know what it was, when it was an unidentified virus. But I was in it when everybody was dying, there was really not a lot of hope. We pronounced a lot of people dead in my internship year. And I remember being on the HIV service actually in 1995 in December, and that’s when we got viral loans.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

And that’s when the first cocktail was approved. And with that, like literally in six months of my first year, we gave people hope. We said you might not die of this; it was just incredible. And they were hard. They were hard regimens and things were difficult, but that’s when I decided I’d known since high school I wanted to be a physician. In 1995. I decided I want to be an infectious disease doc.

Pres. Joe Biden

For the director of the Center for Disease Control, CDC, and prevention I might add. I appoint Rochelle Walensky. She’s a chief infectious disease. She’s chief of infectious disease at one of the country’s most preeminent hospitals, Massachusetts General in Boston. A distinguished professor at Harvard Medical School, and a world class physician. One of the nation’s foremost experts on testing, treatment and eradication of viruses. She has served on the front lines on the COVID crisis. She has conducted groundbreaking research on vaccine delivery, including how to reach underserved communities that are too often hit first, hardest and treat it last.

Pres. Joe Biden  14:18

Dr. Walensky’s work was instrumental in helping the world mitigate the public health crisis of HIV AIDS. It inspired her as a young doctor to pursue her primary research and virus containment. Now, she’ll bring her expertise to bear against COVID-19. She’s uniquely qualified to restore morale and public trust. She’ll marshal our finest scientists and public health experts at CDC to turn the tide on this urgent crisis we’re facing today.

Andy Slavitt 

CDC is one of these agencies that the people who’ve known it forever. Think of it like a mecca, I mean, some of the greatest people and scientists, and it’s one of the gems that we’ve had in our country for some time. But it was never really a household name. Because we have, but for HIV, which, if you were in high-risk population, you were very focused on it. But a lot of people let’s face it felt like it was someone else’s problem. You didn’t really know much about infectious diseases, you didn’t never maybe even heard much about the CDC, until last year. And now, you know, I can’t tell you how many times somebody will say something like, and I’m sure you hear this “Well, I’m sending my kid to school, because the CDC says blank” or “I’m making this decision. And here’s what the CDC says.”

Andy Slavitt 

And you know, we are at an age when there’s all kinds of sources of both information and misinformation. And people are really, really looking for one authority. How do you think about just the communication challenge of connecting to people early on in the term? And what do you see the role of the agency being? And how might it be different than what people have experienced over the last year?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  16:17

Yeah, so there are multiple pieces to that. One is, if you’re an infectious disease doc,  your CDC is your you know, when I type C in my Google search bar CDC comes up. I mean, so it really is the case that if you, if you step in my shoes, or my colleague shoes, we go to that place as the gold standard for my entire career in HIV and antimicrobial resistance in public health and in obesity rates and, you know, in mortality rates. So, I’ve been using that as a reference and a resource for my entire career. Now, it’s also true that the general public doesn’t know what the CDC stands for or didn’t before 2020.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

And it’s also the case that, you know, when I used to tell people, I’m an infectious disease Doc, they said, what does that means? What exactly do you treat? So I think that’s actually true, not only of the CDC, but as infectious diseases in general, as a discipline. From a communication standpoint, I think I have two challenges ahead of me. One is internally facing to talk to these incredible public servants, staff scientists, who’ve been doing the God’s work of public service in in health at the CDC, and to make sure that their morale is restored, and to make sure that they know that science is going to be leading our recommendations again, and to make sure that the name of the CDC is known for science, trust, transparency, data.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

And then the other is to make sure that when that science is released, that it’s communicated early, often, and I like to say in English, to the public, because it’s one thing to, you know, rattle off statistics, and long, long, you know, names, it’s another thing to sort of, say, and this is a have to unpack it, and really understand what the implications are and what it means. And I think that’s I’m gonna have to do both of those jobs early on.

Andy Slavitt  18:17

Yeah. In terms of people understand whether it’s English or Spanish.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

That’s what I meant, yeah.

Andy Slavitt 

Layman’s terms, exactly. Really, really, really relatable terms for people who have the most basic questions that they you know, they want to be, they want to be told what’s best. And they want to hear it consistently. And, you know, in the absence of what’s been kind of a historically strong, centralized voice from the CDC, and let’s stipulate for this call that this is that the CDC left to its own devices might have operated very differently than it did with the current White House. And the purposes of this conversation isn’t to cast, blame or throw shade on anybody, as much as it is to say that the very same scientists, under different leadership are remarkably capable.

Andy Slavitt 

But in the meantime, we had 50 states, 50 state health departments, county health departments, tweeters, the sources of authority were meaningful, some good like Johns Hopkins, some, you know, not so good, like, you know, like for someone on Twitter, do you think that part of the task is to establish some kind of ritual of sharing of knowledge and simple information in a way that the CDC historically has with regular Atlanta press conferences? Do you see that as part of your vision?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

Absolutely. I think I’m not exactly sure the frequency of routine communication but the routine communication has to be there. I do think that what manifested in the lack of communication over the last year, is there a couple things. One is, you got sort of these sprouts of 50 states territory is different communication patterns, different dashboards. Is this the best way? is this the most transparent way.? One of the things that’s happened I think during this pandemic is it’s demonstrated several things. One is our public health infrastructure was thin before and is thinner now. There’s been a large exodus of people from public health because of COVID.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  20:20

And it’s not because they didn’t want to do the work, it’s because they were scrutinized or threatened because of the work that they were doing. And so whatever it was before, it’s now thinner at a time where we need more of it. So we have an opportunity now to build it back better to make sure that it’s better and stronger than where it was. And we need to use the investments and capitalize on that to take this time. In parallel is that as also as the public health infrastructure and the workforce, we need to do that with our data systems, because I think one of those things you saw on Twitter is how different you know, you can present data however it is, you want to present it to get the message across that you want to get across, and we need to make sure that it’s the consistent scientific message.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

So I think we’re gonna work to build back those data systems and ensure that the communication, I don’t want to dictate how all the states do it through the CDC, but I’d like to make sure that it’s consistent and there’s open communication, I’ve been already making those phone calls and that outreach to make sure that we can get to that place.

Andy Slavitt 

Great. So, public education seems like one of your top priorities, not to put words in your mouth.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

You can say that.

Andy Slavitt

When you think about your day one priorities, which I’m sure you’re spending a lot of time thinking about. What other things come to mind as the most important things for your day one entering the leadership at the CDC.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

I mean, so much of this has to be COVID, I can’t, you can’t have that question and not say that the top 10 don’t have to be COVID. Because I don’t think we should do much else until we get out of.

Andy Slavitt 

Let’s double click on COVID. So within COVID, what feels like the top priorities?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

Well, certainly the Biden administration has articulated that we need to get 100 million vaccinations into 100 million arms, we have to do this vaccine distribution, we have to do it well, we have to do it right, we have to get case rates down. I mean, we’re going to be masking for the first 100 days, and perhaps even longer, we have to get these case rates down. And we have to get kids back to school. So all of that has to happen in the first 100 days or soon thereafter. I think quite honestly, we’re gonna inherit things in a bad place.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  22:28

We’re in a bad place now. And where we’re going to be in two or three weeks, I think we’re gonna need to ask for a lot of patience to if there’s expectation that on January 21st the pandemic is going to get better, like we need to just come clean and say I promise you, I’ll tell you all the news, not just the good news, not just the news I wish for but all the news, it’s gonna be bad on January 21st.

Andy Slavitt 

That’s what people want. So maybe a couple just sort of drill down items in there, that within the vaccines. And within masking. So let’s say I’m a skeptic, I’m a Trump supporter. And I live in an area where most of the people around me also don’t wear masks. And the same issue could be said of vaccines, although there I think, maybe not necessarily the same groups of people. How will I come to.. In your vision, how will I come to hear information that will cause me to trust and consider why something that I haven’t been doing is something that I ought to consider doing in let’s face it a country that’s divided for reasons that are far outside of determining the public health? Where would you know, just witnessing all the things we’ve witnessed over the past year in months and weeks.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

Yeah, I mean, we need a unification plan in general. And we need a unification plan for health. We need a unification plan for masks. But quite honestly, I think what we really need to do is a lot of outreach and a lot of understanding and research on, you know, what is it that’s going to be the communication plan to the folks who have these beliefs to get them to, I don’t want to say see my way, it’s to do the right thing for health. And they’re probably not going to want to hear it from me. I’m certainly happy to be there if they do. But we need to figure out who they’re gonna want to hear it from, and what is the truth that they will listen to and from whom, so that they understand the implications of health for the decisions that they’re making.

Andy Slavitt  24:40

So you think about the disease itself, and you think about the South African strain and you think about some of these open questions. Now, some of these things are for people who are far from government. They don’t know what the CDC does, what the NIH does, what the FDA does, [UNCLEAR] does, but it’s all one big kind of government thing. So there’s teamwork and handoffs, that really didn’t happen during the last current administration that are obviously going to be important. But as you think about some of those things, the public is starting to get very worried about the increased potential for incidents in children with some of the South African in the in the English strain. People are concerned about are vaccines going to be as effective. What are your thoughts on what you’d say to the public? How should they be thinking about those things right now?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

So there’s active research and all of these places, we will convey that research as soon as we know it, we do believe that this is a more transmissible strain, the UK strain. And perhaps the South Africa strain as well. From a public health standpoint, there’s several different messages. One is, if you’re practicing the mitigation strategies that we have been suggesting that CDC has been suggesting, for all this time, six feet of distance, everybody’s masked in a triple layer cloth mask or a surgical mask, washing hands. All of those things, it should be fine from a transmissibility standpoint, your distance, and that is enough, your mask is enough.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  26:11

What I would say, though, is I think these strains are probably going to be less forgiving for breaches in that, right? So part of the reason that is perhaps more transmissible is, because if one was only wearing a mask, or you were together for 10 minutes, rather than 15, or whatever it was, it was just a little bit unforgiving in that space. So it’s easy to say do whatever it is that you were doing, do what you were saying. But in the world of HIV, I think a lot about harm reduction, and people don’t always do exactly what you were supposed to say. And they kind of test it a little bit. And what I would say is, all of those I think are gonna put us in a harder spot.

Andy Slavitt

Right, so we may need to update this Swiss cheese model for slightly bigger holes, and so forth. And, and obviously, what they call COVID fatigue, is a real thing on top of everything else. And I think that it’s important that people who feel slightly different ways, feel listened to and feel some sense of agency, because being told by the very people that being told by the government, you shall do this is not necessarily the most effective methods, and there’s a lot of at this point in time, there’s just gonna be a lot of people with a lot of different emotions, and a lot of different concerns. And depending on how this thing has hit you, or your business or your job, or what have you. So a real big effort.

Andy Slavitt 

And I think, you know, from my own two cents, just getting to getting to talk to you in this introduction right here, you’re very human, you’re very personable, you’re very relatable, in addition to being a world class expert and leader who person after person, but just as applaud you for being named into this job. And I think it gives you an enormous opportunity to engage with the public. And hopefully, we can do that in a political way, where people can realize that you can go ahead and vote for whoever you like. But this is a matter that transcends that.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  28:08

First of all, thank you. One of the things, I spent a lot of time with social workers in my HIV background, and one of the things they said is when you give a new HIV diagnosis to somebody, the next thing you do is wait, and you don’t speak again until they speak. And that gives you a sense of what it is that’s hurting them the most, what are they worried about? Are they worried about their job? Are they worried about their safety? Or they’re worried about their children? Or that you know, what is it that there’s, and that’s usually the next thing that comes out?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

So I don’t think we’ve given that voice to people who don’t want to wear a mask. What is it that or who don’t want a vaccine? What is it that’s worrying you the most? Is it that like, I’m gonna get sick, and I can’t go to work tomorrow? Is it that I might get it from COVID? Is it that? You know, these are not tried and true. I don’t trust the science. And I just don’t think we’ve heard that. And the approach to all of those is different.

Andy Slavitt 

Right. And you know, we just had the head of the Vaccine Confidence project on the show, an amazing episode. To me, an amazing episode is one where I just learned a ton. That’s my only definition. Because if I’m learning a lot, I think people are listening are learning a lot. And given how little I know, that’s not a high bar, but this was a really.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

I would disagree.

Andy Slavitt 

The fact that you can be skeptical and have real legitimate questions about a vaccine, something you’re putting in your body doesn’t make you an anti vaxxer. And I think it doesn’t make you someone to be shunned. It makes you someone to be listened to and get truthful information. And if the more people can enhance your trust, the better. So I happen to love the CDC, I love the people in the CDC. And thankfully, I happen to know that a lot of them are listeners to IN THE BUBBLE, although I would think they would have better things to do. You’d have better things to do with your time now but I appreciate it. So if you have I know you’re gonna have a lot of messages for the team when you come in. And I think people will eagerly anticipate that. But is there? Is there any message you’d want to either give directly to or about the hard-working men and women inside the agency?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  30:13

Yeah, can I have a multi fold multi-pronged answer?

Andy Slavitt 

You can have as much as you want.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

So first is they’ve been working extraordinarily hard and COVID. Science is going to lead the way. And we’re gonna take a good look at the guidance from early on, and just make sure that it’s all science driven, and politics are out of the guidance. I want to make sure that equity is part of our foundation, everybody’s talking about equity in 2020. And everybody’s talking about equity with regard to COVID. There’s so much work we need to do in equity with hypertension management, and childhood vaccine access and obesity. And mental health and opioids and substance abuse and so we have to plant the seed with and set the table with equity and make sure that that table remains set.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky 

As for everything that we do across the agency, and now’s our opportunity to do it. The other thing I really just want to convey is, so many people have left what it is that was they were doing was important is important to focus on COVID. And those things are still important. And so I very much want to get back to those, we have to focus on COVID right now. But that doesn’t make any other of the science that they’ve been doing any less important. So I want to think about mental health, I want to think about opioid disorder, I want to think about all the collateral damage that’s happened because of this pandemic.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

Vaccine rates that have gone down on children, hypertension, that’s gone, uncontrolled obesity rates that are probably higher, but we haven’t been measuring it. So all of that work has to return. And because so much of what they do is the good work of prevention.

Andy Slavitt  32:02

Well, I think that’s a great message. And, you know, I think it was gonna be my last question. But you’ve made me think of something else, which is that the opportunity to sell the public and the Congress, quite frankly, on why our biggest threats to our country aren’t turned out have not been running a budget deficit, it turned out it’s been under investing in some really, really important things like public health, where our investments decreased, not just in real terms, but in actual terms over the last number of years. And, you know, making the case to Congress at a time when people have reasons to cast arrows at the CDC and say “Well, why should we fund an agency that made mistakes? Why should we fund an agency that, you know, didn’t get the testing done” And so on and so forth.

Andy Slavitt

But being able to turn that around and say, your lack of investment, you’re degrading of this agency, not you Congress or you in, but our degrading of the value of science and scientists, our diminishment of expertise. All of these things are the things that led us here, including the lack of funding, and, you know, going and sitting down with a congress that we’re going to see how that shaped, and saying, we will reform and get better. That’s always important. But we need to completely scale up the investment we have in this country and our public health system.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky

Yeah, I totally agree with that. I actually don’t think the hard work is going to be in 2021. Because everybody wants to leave their house and they want to get on an airplane again, and they’re willing to put in the single dock time investment, I think the hard work is going to be in 2022 and 2023 when this is maybe not a distant memory, but is behind them to say actually we need to maintain this infrastructure we need to maintain these people who are doing this work. Because prevention, I mean, it’s prevention. Right? Right.

Andy Slavitt 

Do you want to go through this again? Or not?

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  34:03

And truthfully, I’m in perhaps even sense of this already. That’s not going to happen necessarily with me in front of Congress on a one-time thing that’s gonna happen because we’re gonna have to create those relationships, They’re going to be longitudinal relationships, they’re going to be one on ones and discussions, what’s important to you and why and your state and your, you know, your people and why is health such a fundamental part of that.

Andy Slavitt

Absolutely. It’s something you have to sell continuously and explain to people and it’s part of your public education, I wish you the greatest of luck, and, and you have the complete support of the American public to get there and many, many, many colleagues, and we’re all grateful for your upcoming service. And thank you for being on IN THE BUBBLE.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky  34:48

My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

Andy Slavitt 

I’m kind of reeling from that interview. I don’t mind saying that I thought she was everything. And more that you would want to see it someone assuming that level of responsibility. And I was looking at her on Zoom, she is the least bit scared. I’m like, I don’t get it. I don’t get it; I would be under my desk if I were her. But she is not the least bit scared. She’s going in in a really human kind of passionate way. And everybody I’ve talked to who knows her just as she’s wonderful. Let me tell you what’s on our upcoming episodes. We’ve got a toolkit coming up on the variance from the virus from England and South Africa, that people are reading about studying about learning about, we’ve got some really expert folks.

Andy Slavitt

So I think it helps us understand those. We’re going to talk about a part of the country that is getting especially hit hard right now in Southern California and Los Angeles County. And we’re going to really focus on what’s going on there. And I think it’s going to be very interesting. We have another toolkit on the rollout of the vaccine, focusing on who gets what when. I know everybody’s thinking about who should go first, who should go next. When do I get mine? Well, that is actually studied in many respects is an ethical question about how you allocate vaccines to people. And so we’re going to dig into that topic. As we all wait to get that needle in our arms. All that coming up. I look forward to the time I get to talk to you next Have a great rest of the week.

CREDITS

Thanks for listening IN THE BUBBLE. Hope you rate us highly. We’re a production of Lemonada Media. Kryssy Pease and Alex McOwen produced the show. Our mix is by Ivan Kuraev. My son Zach Slavitt is emeritus co-host and onsite producer improved by the much better Lana Slavitt, my wife. Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Wittels Wachs still rule our lives and executive produced the show. Our theme was composed by Dan Molad and Oliver Hill and additional music by Ivan Kuraev. You can find out more about our show on social media at @LemonadaMedia. And you can find me at @ASlavitt on Twitter or at @AndySlavitt on Instagram. If you like what you heard today, most importantly, please tell your friends to come listen, but still tell them at a distance or with a mask. And please stay safe, share some joy and we will get through this together. #stayhome

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