Real Housewife to Real Hot Mess (Erika Jayne Deep Dive)
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Description
Kiki, Hoja, and Mohanad take a deep dive into the real-life drama of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills star Erika Jayne. They discuss her divorce from former attorney Tom Girardi, the couple’s ongoing legal troubles, and whether or not Erika needs to apologize to Tom’s alleged victims. Then, they call up Kimberly Archie, who worked with Tom for 10 years, to learn more about what it was like working in the Girardi Keese law firm. Plus, Kiki says sorry to Taylor Swift and Hoja explains why she spent two hours crying in a bowling alley bathroom on this week’s Sorry Not Sorry.
Please note, I’m Sorry contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.
Follow Kimberly Archie on Twitter @kimberlyarchie and on Instagram @cheersafety.
You can find out more about our show @lemonadamedia on all social platforms, or follow us on Instagram @imsorry_podcast.
Check out these resources from today’s episode:
- Check out Kimberly Archie in the documentary The Housewife and the Hustler: https://www.hulu.com/series/the-housewife-and-the-hustler-4976b6a6-f055-449e-a260-17a80c5b3c62
- Read more about the rise and fall of Tom Girardi and Erika Jayne from the LA Times here: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-17/tom-girardi-erika-jayne-rhobh-divorce
Need help saying sorry? Got any public apology fodder? Email us at imsorry@lemonadamedia.com or send us a DM on Instagram.
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For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com.
Transcript
SPEAKERS
Kimberly Archie, Mohanad Elshieky, Kiki Monique, Hoja Lopez
Hoja Lopez 00:08
I’m Hoja, and this is I’M SORRY, a podcast about apologies. And this week, I tried to impress a teenager that I had to babysit for an afternoon and it did not go well for me.
Kiki Monique
Teenager scare me.
Hoja Lopez
Yeah, I wanted to be so cool, so bad and it did not work.
Mohanad Elshieky
Well, I’m Mohanad Elshieky, and this week I was traveling so I went to LaGuardia, which I am convinced that is a social experiment, to see how we behave in spaces like this. That place is not real. It’s like a, you know, like The Truman Show kind of thing. Like someone was watching.
Kiki Monique
And I’m Kiki Monique. And this week, Tom’s house was broken into and he confronted the burglar and then he had to go have eye surgery. And then my son had to go over and help and then my son, he rolled his car five times on the way home so yeah, I’m under a lot of stress. This is what we’re calling by the way if you didn’t know this, this is the new Rick rolling. I like to call it the […] rolling. Because, I don’t even know if you guys watch Bravo. But I feel like everyone knows this phrase, either through watching TikTok or some reason as like, the funniest moment in Real Housewives history.
Hoja Lopez
I’ve seen it in online but I don’t know what the origin of it is.
Kiki Monique
Well, it’s like it became really popular because of this like season of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which we would be remiss not to talk about this, I’m sorry, because this is essentially like, I feel like the biggest thing happening in pop culture right now because it’s transcended reality. TV watchers, like I’ll be watching like daytime shows, late night talk shows like radio hosts, like everyone is talking about Erica Jane. And the craziest part is, is that this case, doesn’t really even involve her. She’s obviously not a lawyer. She’s a delist want to be music star, pop star, who ended up on a reality show who happens to be married to probably the most famous attorney. I’m sure you guys have seen Erin Brockovich, right? You know, the whole case with that. Tom Girardi is like the attorney that really settled this huge lawsuit of like contaminated water in like the, you know, the early 2000s. And he married Erika Jayne was like his third wife. You know, she’s like, I don’t know, something like 35 years younger. He was born in like, 1939. She was born in 1971. So I don’t know what the age difference is, but it’s big. And we you know, in the last year, you know, she’s been living this like high profile life of $40,000 a month glam teams. You know, these two private jets used to brag about her two private jets, one for more regional and one for you know, Europe and longer.
Hoja Lopez 03:04
Well, the reason she gets cast on Real Housewives is because of who she is as a person and what her husband does, like the whole reason she’s popular at all is because she’s that kind of person, you know?
Kiki Monique
Yeah. I mean, she was my favorite one when she started because she was unlike the other housewives like, yeah, she was still blonde and look like a Barbie. But like, you know, she had a gay squad of men who were like, you know, pretty much everything I wanted in life is like a bunch of gay men who were taking care of me, dressing me up, make up throwing me on stage doing choreography with me. You know, she was living a life for other reasons that I just very much envied.
Mohanad Elshieky
I did watch her music video this morning. The expensive one. Yeah. I mean, being generous calling it a music video. There was I mean; it was a video. Not sure about the music part.
Kiki Monique 04:03
You should go back there’s a video I think it’s roller coaster. I would suggest watching it. I love cheese and camp and so I easily just like am amused by these things. And that to me what Erika Jayne represented was just like all that cheese and camp. And that’s why she made a fun house. So I mean, look, I went to her concert, not saying they weren’t giving the tickets away because nobody was showing up. And that’s why I went that may have the reason I showed up. But, it was still a fun concert nonetheless. But yeah, I mean, this season. She’s now getting a divorce from Tom after 20 years, and now it’s all coming out that he’s been stealing from his clients for all this time. Like this was the lawyer that was like fighting for the little guy, right? He was going up against like huge entities, huge corporations like Lockheed, PG & E, which is a utility company, you know, California MTA, the seven major Hollywood studios and he has won all of these cases. And so that’s really how he built his career. And then in another part of California can’t remember the name of the town. There was contamination in the water. And that’s how the Erin Brockovich movie was essentially born. Tom came in as the attorney that settled for this town, it was like, you know, the whole town, he settled for something like $460 million for 650 residents, he won, which was the largest settlement ever at this time, and then turned to this, you know, huge Hollywood movie with Julia Roberts. So that was how it really got the attention. And he at that moment, became LA attorney, celebrity attorney. I mean, I saw reading, I was reading his like background, and he got his JD in like, 1964. And then he got his masters of law in like 1965. And by 1970, he had won the first you know, million dollar plus lawsuit for medical malpractice ever in the state of California. Five years, just five years, like, that’s someone you know, is headed for superstardom.
Hoja Lopez 06:19
Yeah, he’s basically like creating this high-powered kind of malpractice or suit system, which is interesting, because now we know there’s many billionaires in the United States, specifically from like malpractice suits. But yeah, up until the Erin Brockovich movie, I had never really I didn’t know what it was to do like a class lawsuit. Like I didn’t understand that a bunch of people got together and all sued under the same attorney so that’s why he’s kind of the first one.
Mohanad Elshieky
It’s funny because I know about the things from, not from the movie or anything else is from Better Call Saul. Yeah, because I mean it’s the same thing he’s like literally just you know, like an attorney like for the small guy and like he’s leading just like actual like lawsuit against this. I don’t know what’s called the house where you have elderly people stay there.
Hoja Lopez
Retirement home?
Mohanad Elshieky
Yeah, he was suing them and it’s so I when I was reading this case about this guy Tom, I was just like, oh, wow, this is like a very like high stake Better Call Saul. Especially the thing about the flip phone, he only had a flip phone. And that’s the other thing was you Better Call Saul because the oh you use flip phones and literally was once they’re done with whatever thing they’re working on which is mostly illegal stuff. They will just like break it and get to the other flip phone.
Kiki Monique
So yeah, and all because well Better Call Saul was doing shady stuff so that should have been people’s first indication that Tom was up to no good.
Hoja Lopez
If you see a man with a flip phone walk away? Because there’s no evidence being left in these. I’m learning life lessons here.
Kiki Monique 08:05
Where do you even buy, like where do you get a flip phone today? I wouldn’t know where to pick one up in order to be shady.
Mohanad Elshieky
A museum? I don’t know.
Kiki Monique
But like the fact that he’s being shady, you know, Tom Gerard he’s being shady. Not only in his law firm advice. He used that flip phone to also have an inappropriate sexting relationship with a judge. You know, she I don’t know how I guess she took pictures with her phone of this you know, flip phone all the screenshots with messages that had to be created by t nine and posted them on the internet to expose him as a cheater so people when she filed for divorce, she was like, this is why I’m divorced. And he’s been doing this and yeah, put this judge on blast. But even he was sexting on it.
Mohanad Elshieky
On a flip phone?
Hoja Lopez
I don’t know about sexting on a flip phone.
Mohanad Elshieky
What’s the emojis even like?
Hoja Lopez
I don’t think they have any, how do you express yourself? How do you get your full point across without the range of emotion that emojis provide? I don’t know.
Mohanad Elshieky
Also, if I remember, like flip phones, maybe, like you’d send something and like half of the text is missing. And it’s just I don’t know. This seems like you know what, this guy? Yeah, he belongs in prison just for that.
Kiki Monique
It’s pretty amazing. I know, like, as much as like, I mean, I can understand like, the benefits of being a sugar baby. Just the dealing of like having to deal with like a 78-year-old and like from a technological level, I think would send me to pieces.
Hoja Lopez
I’m like, I’m so sorry, honey. I cannot teach you. I cannot teach you how to use Spotify. You just click on the song.
Kiki Monique
So, you know, over the next several years, you know, he builds up Girardi keys because he has a reputation. You know, every, every big case comes to him. And through this, he also just becomes like a huge, he’s a huge donor to a lot of Democrat candidates. And he becomes huge in the political arena, which is really buying him a lot of power in California. I mean, he said in his memoir, he wrote a memoir about how they would meet at this, like, you know, restaurant, this behind closed door situation, and they would decide who to put a point on benches, and around California, and he would just call up governors and you know, make a request. And basically, he became known as the guy you go to, if you want to get appointed to positions or if you want to get into office, like Tom Girardi is the person you talk to.
Hoja Lopez 10:55
Yeah, you know, this is what people accuse like shithole countries of, you know what I mean? Like, this is the kind of like shitty corruption like money stuff that like is like an emblem of like nonfunctioning governments and like the fucked-up part of the justice system. So I hate that it’s so intertwined with money and celebrity. And he’s clearly kind of becoming that person, I don’t like that for him, bad boy.
Kiki Monique
And so because he was able to essentially buy himself protection, you know, he’s friends with the chief of police, he’s friends with the governor, like, he has built this protection, that is really when you get to the core of it is how he was able to continue this fraud basically, for so long, because there had been suits against him apparently, since the 80s. But essentially, what happened was like, a lot of these newer cases is when you, you know, receive a settlement, you know, you won a settlement or settled with a for a client, on a specific amount. Every attorney, the first thing that they do is they have to put that settlement money into like, trust, basically, it’s like the settlement, you know, fund, and it is not to be touched, that is like, Attorney 101, like you will be disbarred, if you ever touch money in that settlement trust. And essentially what he was doing was he was touching the money in the Settlement Trust, but like, you’re supposed to take an accounting of what’s in there, the attorneys do get their fees from that once the accounting has been done. And then it’s doled out to the victims, the clients, you know, after that accounting has been done. But essentially, he was borrowing and using that money from the fund, the settlement to operate his life, to operate his firm. And it wasn’t going to the clients.
Hoja Lopez 12:52
And the lenders come in because then he has to, he spent that money. So he what, he has to then go to lenders to get money to like pay off more settlements that are like past due is that kind of?
Kiki Monique
Yeah. So I mean, like, my understanding of these lenders is like these are the type of lenders that you use when you’re in financial trouble. And so, you know, he was borrowing from these lenders saying, look, I have these huge settlements coming in, I can secure with that money, they would let him borrow the money. But he was doing that to multiple lenders, like you know, if you have an asset, you can only promise it to one place. It sounded like he was like promising it to multiple places, but he was getting this money from the lenders and settlements weren’t going out. So it was, he had been a co-counsel with this attorney Jay Edelson in Chicago and Jay Edelson had been representing one of the Lion Air clients. So this was a Boeing 737 max lion air crash in Indonesia. It was that, that he was he was representing some people, you know, all everyone had different, you know, attorneys. And so Tom had been working with this attorney in Chicago, they had settled on a case but Edelson’s clients weren’t getting paid, like he had agreed that the money would go into, I guess, Tom settlement fund. And so Edelson had kept requesting where’s our funds for our clients? Where’s our funds, and Tom kept pushing it off and Edelson had enough and that’s when he sued. And that was the impetus to sort of this unraveling, because once he sued, and the federal judge looked into it, the judge then froze Girardi’s assets. And he cited that he had misappropriated at least $2 million of the clients funds of these, again, this is these are aircraft victims. These are widows and orphans, okay? That he had stolen money from like they’re in Indonesia. He’s over here, just spending their money.
Kiki Monique
So it was that filing in December that really sparked this unraveling. And eventually, I think in March of 2021, Tom gets disbarred. Because once again, once they open up this case and realize how bad it is, he gets disbarred. And then he is diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. Soon after he’s disbarred, I believe. And he was placed into a conservatorship. So right now where Tom is, he’s in a home. And so he can’t really there’s a possibility we’ll never get like criminal charges or any of those things because he’s incapacitated. But the only person kind of left now to answer as unfortunately Erika Jayne. Yeah, because a lot of people believe he was doing this to support her lifestyle, and that he was trying to keep up with like, you know, this younger woman that he wanted to still like, impress and do all these things for, you know, and they talk about in the Real Housewives you know, having you know, two jets and you know, this huge Pasadena, you know, mansion and other properties that she said she wasn’t even aware that they owned like the address. She didn’t even know the addresses of some. And she at one point wanted to start this music career, which he obviously funded. And, you know, Erika’s music careers. I don’t know, for some reason, it’s like, the funniest part of it to me, is because she ended up getting managed by Jerry Heller. Now, Jerry Heller was the manager of NWA, the rap group NWA.
Mohanad Elshieky
Oh, yeah. It’s crazy to me.
Hoja Lopez
This whole like intersection of celebrity and fraud is really interesting to me. Because if you really think about it, like this man is representing people who are victimized by big corporations and rich people. And then he goes and turns around and basically becomes like, this super wealthy kind of corporation and rich man that that then also victimizes them. And that’s why I think it’s just so appalling about the airplanes and Erika Jayne lifestyle in general, is that it’s so counterbalanced or like, the reason she’s even has it in the first place? Is not even that, you know, yes, of course, stealing, but even in the first place, what had to happen in order for them to have money is so fucked up.
Kiki Monique
Yeah.
Hoja Lopez
I almost be like, shut the fuck up about your money. Like, what is so difficult about being a quiet, wealthy person? It’s too much.
Mohanad Elshieky 18:05
They can’t, they really can’t.
Kiki Monique
And It especially makes no sense when you are representing the little guy. You know, like, yeah, we know that you’re going to make a lot of money as an attorney, but like to go on a reality show and like, brag about it. That just is like never a good look. I don’t care if you are like, on the most up and up attorney out there. Like don’t brag about it. Yeah. But, yeah, so she was like, you know, she starts his music career. You know, there was like, funny stories about how tom would be at these like, you know, dinner with like, you know, stuffy legal professions, and he would put on Erika’s video, and she’d be like, writhing around in this video, and people are just like him, you know, he’s just over there. Like, very proud of his, like, you know, arm candy.
Hoja Lopez
Honestly, I mean, it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful for a man to love you like that, honey, to show your fucking sexy music video at like a fancy judges political fundraiser. I mean, Find you a man that will do all that for you. You know?
Kiki Monique
Yeah. So you know. And so people are like, you know, were you trying to keep up you know, because when the music career launch, everyone says it was not a moneymaker. And I randomly came across this. Not randomly, I was doing a deep dive, let’s be real.
Hoja Lopez
You tried to casually insert yourself there. You are not a casual person about the housewives, Kiki.
Kiki Monique
But I discovered this blog by this guy, Gary Ballen, who’s like in the music industry. And so Gary, I discover is Jerry Heller’s cousin. And so he just keeps this blog of like different things that are happening in his life. And there happened to be an entry about Erika Jayne, about how like in 2008 his cousin Jerry came and was like, hey, would you be like a road manager for this new act I got Erika Jayne, and, you know, he thought it was really weird because it wasn’t like the typical acts that he had been working on. And it was like, very strange. This blog entry is very interesting. But one thing that stood out to me was Gary discusses how they traveled first class, stayed at very high-end hotels. Everyone was paid very well by Erika’s husband, Tom Girardi. And then it also goes on to say that we would travel first class all over the country to do a 15-minute show that we didn’t get paid for. Bizarre but fun.
Kiki Monique
You know, reminds me of like, you know how like Rebecca Black got her own music video when she was 13 years old and her parents paid for it. Like this is what this it feels like a sweet 16 episode, where her daddy is Tom Girardi and her daddy’s paying for a very fancy sweet 16 like party, you know, except for her it’s a tour of America play Hunter music, but, oh, Lord.
Kiki Monique 20:58
so yeah, I mean, I think that that’s where people are really roping in this Erika Jayne, because they were like, did this money, was he stealing this money to support your life? But again, if he was, was that her fault? If he was doing it, that was like he was doing it. And that’s his own damn fault. Yeah. But if it’s discovered that that money was used for like, maybe buying these $300,000 rings, well, then you also got to turn the ring back over. You know?
Hoja Lopez
I think the focus of it being so much on her is because of that is because it all feels so superfluous in comparison to these really deep problems that people are having on the other end of it. I think it plays into a lot of like, class issues, plays into a lot of race issues. And it feels just the fucking […]. You know, it’s like, watching somebody be so high. I can’t even imagine what victims must have felt like watching her on television. I don’t know how you could stomach it; it would be so painful, you know?
Kiki Monique 22:05
So we’re gonna talk today to Kimberly Archie, who worked for Tom for seven years. And when her best friend’s son was in a PG & E explosion, Kim stepped in and suggested Tom Girardi to her friend in order to get the settlement. And it was Kim, who then ended up having to sort of play spy when she realized that things in Tom’s law firm weren’t exactly what they appeared to be. We’re going to talk to her about that. We’re going to talk to her about, you know, just what was happening in the Girardi law firm, you know, it was a really extravagant place to work. So we’re gonna get into it.
Kiki Monique
Kimberly, I’m so glad to have you here today. I mean, I remember seeing you in the documentary, the housewife and the hustler. And I think this was back in June, when it came out. And I remember thinking, find you a bestie like Kimberly, Archie, because like, what you were willing, and what you are, have been willing to do to get justice for your best friend’s family, like literally had me in tears. Now, you were pivotal in this documentary, because you have worked with Tom. Now I know that you were working with him for 10 years, but you work directly with him for seven years. And that came about because he reached out to you. Can you explain a little bit about that?
Kimberly Archie
Well, I met him because of the Ruigomez case. So I knew lawyers and I worked with folks who worked with him prior to Kathy’s case. And so once I met him, and then I got to know him and some of the other people at Girardi Keese because I’m helping my best friend with her big crisis. So through that process, I got to know him and other people there. And the whole reason I had ever reached out to […], which is the law firm in the Erin Brockovich movie, was because I wanted to get them involved in going after companies in the sports industry, that were holding back the rights of athletes, from kids to the pros. And so where I finally got to work with Tom was on the NFL case. And even when I started working on it, I worked indirectly, you know, with him, it was it took three years before I worked with him directly.
Kiki Monique 24:45
Got it. And so, you know, you mentioned the Ruigomez case. You know, again, for those not familiar if you aren’t familiar, I would suggest watching this documentary, it really explains a lot of it, but your best friend Kathy, her son was in the PG & E explosion. I think in 2010, that ended up killing his girlfriend and severely injuring him. And there was, you know, I think, eight people died. And then 60 people were in, you know, injured in this. Now was Tom Girardi only, like was Joe, his client only or did you have other clients who were part of this explosion?
Kimberly Archie
No, you know, he there were Gomez is were Tom’s really only client, I believe the neighbor maybe was the client as well. But as far as like the eight wrongful deaths, and the families that lost their homes, the San Bruno families really decided to kind of spread out the lawyering and none of the major victims went with the same law firm, which looking back seemed really smart and good for the victims that there were a number of big firms involved. And later on one of those firms actually had made comments to a reporter. And when the Ruigomez is decided to sue Tom, I finally heard the story that there were like rumors, you know, when the Ruigomez picked Tom, among attorneys. Not to us, not to the public. So that, you know, the victims would know to not do it, it was said to the reporter. And even he said that when he heard it at the time, he thought, oh, lawyers are just bickering or you know, hating on each other, whatever he you know, took it a little bit with a grain of salt, which, that’s what a lot of us did when we first heard, you know, the whispers about Tom.
Kiki Monique 26:42
Yeah. And like to know, there were rumors, I mean, circulating I mean, I’m assuming this, you know, all started maybe 2010-2011 is maybe when they were starting to get lawyer. So the fact that that was already rumors on him. Wow. So I mean, in this documentary, you know, it seems like as we’re going through, you know, Joe’s case, it seems like, you know, Tom had acted like he was sort of hand holding him, he really wanted to take care of this young man. It’s sort of like how he kept, you know, presenting it. And then all of a sudden, he’s like, we have a settlement. And it didn’t seem like he had really discussed it much with the family, that sort of thing. But again, there was no reason to not trust Tom. I mean, like, this is a man, you know, I’m reading his history. He has settled before this two other PG & E cases. Of course, if he tells you he’s got a settlement, well, I feel like I’d probably just be like, okay, yeah, this sounds right. Why wouldn’t you trust it? And they settle the case. And then it sounds like it just is a series of like, well, we want to get you paid, but we want to protect you. So let’s put this money in a trust for you. Because I’ve seen so many young men who’ve, you know, receive settlements, and they lose their money. And so the money was put in a trust. And it feels like that’s where this sort of this is when the Ponzi scheme sort of stuff starts happening.
Kimberly Archie 28:02
But so first of all, you know, I’m not sure Ponzi scheme for this part of the Girardi fraud is the proper term. You know, it was just fraud. It was a fraudulent transfer. I mean, you know, he used his position of authority to manipulate a situation and steal money from his clients. I mean, it’s really that simple. And I don’t think that Tom would be in the situation he’s in right now, or people would know what they know, or we wouldn’t be where we are now, if it wasn’t for Joe’s mom, Kathy, I mean, it was her persistence, even to me, saying, like, even when I kept saying, well, who are you going to go to? What are we going to do about it? If we get the evidence, like, where will we go? She was the one that was like, we’ll figure it out. Because we’re not gonna know this and do nothing about it. Okay. I mean, you know, and when you think about how powerful Tom, you know, was, and still probably is, to some degree, you know, there’s a real reason why it seems really scary to do something about it, even if, you know, we could get the evidence and what most people don’t know. And Tom admits that he could no longer borrow money from the legal lenders because of the Ruigomez case. So people have to realize that they’re domino number one, then you have coming down the pike you have Tom’s deposition is another domino then you have Erika filing for divorce and that set off Edelson see that chain of events? You know, so and I’d probably throw COVID in there too. I mean, you know, COVID slowing everything down probably added to the pressure of him not being able to rob Peter to pay Paul and keep the scam going.
Kiki Monique 30:20
This is unfolding for you in real time, I’m assuming. Are you watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills while this is happening?
Kimberly Archie
So okay, I’m not a TV watcher. I hope everyone doesn’t hate me for that. Only because I worked a lot. I used to watch TV and I was an unlimited TV person. Okay, so now, since I watched my very first episode, doing the Hulu filming, they had me and Kathy watch Erika’s first episode. And I’ve been in therapy ever since. I couldn’t get over it. Like, it was unbelievable to me. So I did watch this season. And the reunion. And yeah, I mean Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Horrible, horrible acting by Erica. She’s totally being coached. It’s obvious what their narrative that they tried to create. And it didn’t, you know, hasn’t gone so well for them. And it was horrible advice. Like, I can’t believe they’re letting Tom orchestrate Erika’s defense. When he got her in this place in the first place. That’s why she’s not mad at him. Because he’s still the one trying to help get her out.
Kiki Monique
So yeah, so for those who again, maybe aren’t familiar with the case, you know, obviously Erica Jane. She’s been married to Tom for 20 years. And she has this you know, music career that, you know, has been […]
Kimberly Archie 32:00
That’s kind, a music career. Okay.
Hoja Lopez
Hey, I was listening to some of those songs.
Kiki Monique
Oh. And, you know, she’s had, you know, she talks about a Real Housewives of Beverly Hills that her glam team costs $40,000 a month. All of these things, which, you know, I’m glad you weren’t watching it in real time, because I think that would have like, set me like, my head would explode. But yeah, like, yeah, these things are happening. And she is now being accused. Because again, this is the part that like, is still being worked out is like, supposedly, there was a $20 million loan made from Girardi Keese to EJ Global LLC. And people are trying to say,
Kimberly Archie
Can I clarify that? Okay, because, look, I think Erika is a total asshole. I mean, I just do. She’s ridiculous. I mean, she’s handled this horribly. There’s no other way to say it. However, you know, to claim that some sugar baby married to some older dude, charge shit on our AMEX bill. That was his personal AMEX not the company’s even though there’s no difference, because Girardi Keese was not a corporation, it was a sole proprietorship and belong to Tom. So there’s no separation anyway. But let’s just talk about facts. It was his AMEX bill that she had her own name on. And so like 18 million of that, that they’re discussing her somewhere in that range over 14 years. Was her just charging on her AMEX bill. So you’re telling it so not you, but meaning? The trustee who tried to file this, you know, really what was just salacious headline chasing and saying like, Oh, she charged stuff on our AMEX. So that would mean every sugar baby and La whose sugar daddy goes bankrupt, they have to pay back their AIMEX bill? That’s the argument.
Kimberly Archie 34:02
Okay. I’ll just say so making it that plain. I’ll even leave it out there. If you know, future lawyers want to be lawyers play a lawyer on TV, you know, or lawyers themselves want to say like, hey, yeah, all sugar babies would now have to pay their AMEX bill. I mean, let me hear your argument. But that’s ultimately what had happened. Now, Erika was married to Tom. So she owes the debt, just like Tom owes the debt. So if it’s 100 million she owes it. If it’s 10 million, she owes it, whatever she charged on her AMEX bill or whatever things that you know, they are claiming in this 20 million. The issues really with that money is that they claimed it as a loan on their taxes. So that could be problematic for them. But that’s not necessarily an issue of you’re going to get money from Erika Jayne and how are you going to get you know, blood out of return up. I mean, there’s a lot more money in the cases that were sitting on the book Girardi Keese than there ever will be, you know from you know, from Erika Jayne, and if there’s a way to extrapolate money from her, these shark lawyers will suck the blood out of, you know, anything. So if it’s possible, they’ll hunt her down until they can get it.
Kiki Monique
And you know, cuz I remember, you know, she never signed a prenup. And of course, at the time, she probably thought that was the best thing for her. Now it feels like, damn, you should have had a prenup because you don’t you are not protected against any of this. And, you know, I’m glad you broke that down and explained it because you’re right. Like, if I was a sugar baby, and I was just charging up stuff on my Amex. I dare someone to try to tell me that they loaned me money afterwards. Absolutely not.
Kimberly Archie
She was done to sign those taxes. I mean, and she also made comments on the show, like, It’s our money, because I know because I sign the taxes. So you admit it on the show that you’re fully aware of what’s going on. So, you know, she’s made that tough on herself to try to backtrack later that she was oblivious and knew nothing, because she put herself out there to being an expert about her taxes.
Kiki Monique 36:18
So like, when you see, you know, I know, I have to understand how hard it would be to watch Erika on the screen. And, you know, if I hadn’t gotten my $100,000 settlement for something that happened to me 10 years ago, I’d be pissed off. On the other hand, you know, do we want to just keep seeing her work? I mean, I know we saw she did an IG posts the other day that seemed to allude that maybe she was going to get back on stage with her singing, you know, do we want to see this? Because at least we know, if she’s working well, then we have a judgment or we have a way to go after revenue if we get a judgment.
Kimberly Archie
Look, I’m gonna say something probably fairly unpopular right now. It’s kind of disgusting, though. On the flip side of the coin, you know, so here, Erika has been not the greatest and her dealing with what’s happened in acknowledging the victims and seeming like she cares at all. But she’s always been kind of a cold fish. So that’s not really you know, new behavior. However, why are women blamed for men’s crimes and shit all the time? Like, come on, like, her crime is being classless and egregious. Her crime is being rude as fuck to the victims, her crimes or maybe some tax stuff, because she listened to her sugar daddy. But did she steal from the victims herself? Did she know at some point, I mean, maybe per se and that also makes her bad that she didn’t do anything about it. But also, what did I say earlier? I didn’t know where to go. I didn’t know what to do. So I find it a little bit distasteful that she’s getting blamed. And I also think it takes the focus off what really matters, which is the victims and who really did it. So it’s like everyone’s looking at this shiny, famous thing over here. And they’re not looking at who helped tom do this. The system, the people that were close to him, like the guy who ran the books. He pled the fifth already. Nobody’s really that interested in that.
Kiki Monique 38:26
Wait, who’s the guy who ran the books? And when did he plead the fifth?
Kimberly Archie
So his name is Chris Kamon. And he was a bookkeeper guys, not even a CPA, but he had millions of dollars in properties. He just sold like a $3 million house and Encino recently, has all kinds of businesses. And he pled the fifth, probably like six months ago. You know, nobody talks about that guy at all. We’re so obsessed with Erika, which I get it because she’s on a show and the shows very popular. And there’s this entire fan base built in, and all the media. So that’s why I kept thinking like Ronald Richards was hired just to like, fight with Erica on Twitter every day. So everyone would forget about the real problems, which is who let Tom do this. And who did he harm? How are we making them whole? And how are we not going to let this happen again.
Kiki Monique
So you know, the show is about apologies. I mean, I think it’s clear, there’s a lot of apologies, that need to be made, you know, from everyone, Tom, people who were working with Tom on this whole thing, obviously, Erika, her behavior towards this. I am curious, though, Kimberly, do you think based on what you said, is there a possibility that we could owe Erika Jayne and apology one day?
Kimberly Archie
I mean, it’s possible, you know, by giving her too much responsibility. I mean, this is what I mean like it’s society is so good at, you know, putting it on the wife or the female something a crime that their husband or spouse or significant other has done. I mean, she didn’t actually commit the crime of taking the money from clients. She’s not an attorney. She didn’t work at the law firm, even though she sat down there the first 10 years they were married and camped out, so everyone would know who she was, you know, ballsy move on her part, but it didn’t make her a lawyer. I mean, if you could just, you know, be around lawyers and become a lawyer. You know, everyone would do it. She would chill in her old tracksuits. You know, like, back in the day and just sit there. I thought it was just really interesting. Like, it’s just really ballsy, because, you know, a law firm so conservative. I mean, I don’t fit in there. Like, I didn’t have an office. I didn’t want to sit at the law firm. I had an office at […] and I never went in there. And they’d be like, why? That’s so quiet. Like, I’m loud. Everybody be like. Like, why do you got to be so quiet all the time? It’s so boring in here, you’re like, I don’t know why she’d want to sit down there for 10 years every day, that it was mind blowing to me to hear people tell me those early stories. I’m like, why? But I guess she wanted people to know that she was here to stay. Or she’s the new wife. She’s the new First Lady of law.
Kiki Monique
Well, you know, Tom was like, the golden boy of LA. So you know, he was her trophy. I mean, in a sense. I mean, he was a celebrity when they got together. So you know, something new unfolds in this case, sort of it seems like every week, so I know. We’ll be doing like a we’ll get back to this. We’ll have to do like a follow up in the future for sure. But I’m excited to hear more about what goes on with the new revelations you have. And obviously if this is a path to the victims, getting some money, this is like what I think everyone ultimately just wants from the situation this, this circus that’s happening. But Kimberly, thank you so much.
Kimberly Archie 42:11
Thank you for having me. And thank you for talking about the victims and hopefully, in the future, we can continue talking about them and platforming their stories.
Mohanad Elshieky
Okay, and now it’s time for my favorite segment that we do every episode. Sorry, not sorry, where we, you know, ask someone to apologize to us for something horrible that they did. Or we apologize to someone. Kiki, who do you have this week?
Kiki Monique
You know, I was originally going to tell you another bathroom story. But I might save that one. Because I woke up this morning, and I realized, you know who I owe an apology to? Taylor Swift. And, look, I’m not a Swifty, but I do very much enjoy a lot of Taylor Swift songs. She makes some bops. And, you know, she’s releasing all of these albums. And I didn’t really put two and two together. I don’t know why. Maybe because I’m not a Swifty. I wasn’t paying attention n. Because I was like, Wait, why is she releasing all these albums? Oh, she’s releasing these albums because of that whole kerfuffle she had with Scooter Braun where he basically took all of her masters and sold them. Yeah. And so now she has no ownership of them. And that’s why all of her songs have parentheses, Taylor’s version after them. And I was like, hell yeah. Okay, why did I not stream so that’s why I’m apologizing to Taylor Swift for not streaming her version. The day it came out, because regardless of whether I want to be a Swifty, I want to support that money going into the artists pocket. So I apologize Taylor for not streaming but I’m going to stream every single Taylor version song for every album that is re-released so that you get all of this money and those people have a worthless portfolio of those old masters and I hope everyone removes them from there.
Mohanad Elshieky 44:12
I mean, I’ll say you know, Taylor re-recording her album releasing it. Britney is free. Adele is releasing an album really truly finally; blonde white women are getting their moment.
Hoja Lopez
Long awaited.
Mohanad Elshieky
Yeah, yeah. Well deserved. Congrats to all of you, ladies. Hoja, who do you have this week?
Hoja Lopez
Well, I would like to mainly apologize. It’s always apologizing. But I definitely had a public breakdown at a at a bowling alley this weekend. So fully cry in front of a group of strangers at a bowling alley called Avondale bowl in Chicago, because I was already having a very emotional day. And then we arrived and I realized that my partner had not made reservations to bowl so we were had to wait for two and a half hours. Oh, before we actually even got to bowl at all, on a already very logistically complicated day. So I took a full 25-minute bathroom breaks where I just bawled in the bathroom, you guys, I had a very long day. I was like up an atom since like 4am. And this was a sort of event that I was expected to be at this bowling this grand bowling situation. And so you know, when you’re a kid, and you think relationships are very simple. And if you see a woman crying in public, you’re like, oh, honey, everything’s fine. Stop. Like, you don’t need to be doing this. Why are relationships so dramatic? And then you get into a relationship as an adult, and you’re like, Oh, my God, this is what things are so much more complicated. You know, so I’m sorry.
Kiki Monique 46:05
But wait, who is this the sort? Are you apologizing to someone? Or do you want an apology from your partner? Or?
Hoja Lopez
You know, it’s complex? I just wanted you guys to know cuz you’re my friends.
Mohanad Elshieky
Are you apologizing to kids who probably weren’t there and had to learn what is it to be like to be an adult?
Hoja Lopez
Correct. I’m sorry that I showed you a glimpse into how crazy you can get.
Kiki Monique
Are you apologizing to us for not paying the copay for being your therapist?
Mohanad Elshieky
Just so everyone at home knows that. Hoja, does these things every week just to create content for you. So please be grateful.
Hoja Lopez
I live my life in service of this podcast.
Mohanad Elshieky
Yeah, just fucking up every week just to apologize.
Kiki Monique
Well, my neighbor did you do something?
Mohanad Elshieky
No neighbors this week because. So this weekend, I was in St. Louis, Missouri. For a comedy festival. The Comedy Festival was fantastic. But who I want to demand that apology from is our Uber driver from the airport. Because the way he painted St. Louis to us was that it’s was one of the best cities, not only in America, but anywhere to be honest in the world. He said, the beer was voted number one in the states, that the pizza is amazing. He told us people who came from New York City that St. Louis has the best Little Italy. And I’m just like, I don’t think you have Italians here, but yeah, and after spending two days in St. Louis, I have never seen a city that is just a collection of roads. I don’t think it has a middle you know, is just is just roads that lead to other roads. And then the hotel we stayed in. If he asked me to describe places, I do not know I did not see a place there. Except the arch. We went to the arch. We went to the arch there. And they tried to get us to pay money to get like to the top of the arts because you can take a tram into it. And then we looked at the view and I was like I do not want to see this from above. So the city of St. Louis, you owe me an apology. I’ll go back there if you have me cuz again, I’ll do anything for money, but your city sucks. I’m sorry.
CREDITS 48:41
I’M SORRY is a Lemonada Media Original. The show is produced by Alex McOwen, supervising producer is Kryssy Pease. Our executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Our mix is by Kat and theme music was composed by Xander Singh. If you like this show, please rate and review. And please don’t cancel us. You can find out more about our show at @LemonadaMedia on all social platforms, or follow us on Instagram at @imsorry_podcast. We’ll be back next week and until then be nice, play fair and always say I’m sorry. Thanks for listening!
